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thomas35forever
08-09-2010, 10:04 PM
At least the bullpen won't be gassed?

october23sp
08-09-2010, 10:04 PM
:angry:

Frater Perdurabo
08-09-2010, 10:04 PM
Chunks...

Hartman
08-09-2010, 10:05 PM
lose 3 of 4 to the Orioles? pathetic.

Frater Perdurabo
08-09-2010, 10:05 PM
But hey, Jim Thome wouldn't get any at-bats on this team.

october23sp
08-09-2010, 10:05 PM
We ****ing suck. Mostly you Carlos and Jones.

vinny
08-09-2010, 10:05 PM
****ty game, ****ty series against a ****ty team. ****ty road trip.

PeteWard
08-09-2010, 10:05 PM
Well at least Putz will be available tomorrow.:mad:

soltrain21
08-09-2010, 10:05 PM
That was an unfortnuate ending. Hopefully home treats them well against the Twins. Win tomorrow.

Hartman
08-09-2010, 10:05 PM
Offense circa April 2010

Sockinchisox
08-09-2010, 10:05 PM
We definitely don't need another hitter.

soxinem1
08-09-2010, 10:05 PM
***?:scratch:

Really unacceptable.

soxfan1965
08-09-2010, 10:06 PM
We're doomed.

soltrain21
08-09-2010, 10:06 PM
We ****ing suck. Mostly you Carlos and Jones.

We don't suck. Cmon.

SoxSpeed22
08-09-2010, 10:06 PM
I don't give a **** how hot a team is. You blow that many opportunities, you're supposed to lose.
At least we got all of our crappy baseball out of the way before the Twins series.

october23sp
08-09-2010, 10:06 PM
Orioles > White Sox.

balke
08-09-2010, 10:07 PM
10 LOB this series by TCQ.

WhiteSox5187
08-09-2010, 10:07 PM
You can't lose three out of four to a team that is thirty under in the middle of a pennant race. You just can't do that. Quentin's ABs in the sixth and last inning really hurt. So did Vicideo's defense and Paulie's brain cramp. At least Paulie made up for it.

johnnyg83
08-09-2010, 10:07 PM
That is ****ing embarrassing.

Hartman
08-09-2010, 10:07 PM
Tired of hearing about this Buck Showalter bull****. We played like **** against it ****ty team.

eastchicagosoxfan
08-09-2010, 10:07 PM
It ain't what you hit; it's when you hit it. It seems this team has retrograded back to May of this year.

Rdy2PlayBall
08-09-2010, 10:07 PM
It must be the humidity, everyone seems overly bitchy today.
Were still in first, chill out.

OmahaSoxFan
08-09-2010, 10:07 PM
Goodbye "hot late June\July White Sox"... hello again crappy hitting "May\early June White Sox."

To be serious though, to lose 3 out of 4 to a horse**** Orioles team heading into a key series at home vs. the Piranhas could be a huge blow to this team... or a boon... maybe this series and getting back home tonight will wake this team up!

35th and Shields
08-09-2010, 10:07 PM
Another pathetic showing in Baltimore. **** that.

Blueprint1
08-09-2010, 10:07 PM
Carlos Quentin is horrible at hitting on the road.

soxinem1
08-09-2010, 10:07 PM
We ****ing suck. Mostly you Carlos and Jones.

Carlos has been clueless for about ten days in a row now, both at the plate and in RF.

At least Jones is playing a solid OF.

PeteWard
08-09-2010, 10:07 PM
A sweep of the Twins will wash all of this away. Anything less, not so much.

thomas35forever
08-09-2010, 10:08 PM
Tired of hearing about this Buck Showalter bull****. We played like **** against it ****ty team.
I guess we'll find out if that's true or if Baltimore really is hot over the next week.

JB98
08-09-2010, 10:08 PM
A sweep of the Twins will wash all of this away. Anything less, not so much.

Two out of three would work.

BadBobbyJenks
08-09-2010, 10:08 PM
We scored 10 runs in 4 days off a team with a 5.08 ERA. What a ****ing joke.

Hartman
08-09-2010, 10:08 PM
This team has a hole in the lineup as big as a ****ing black hole

Jpgr91
08-09-2010, 10:08 PM
In a AL line up having your 6th hole batter bunting in two PA is a joke.

sox1970
08-09-2010, 10:08 PM
Throw out this game and the 111 games the Sox played before tonight.

50 games in 55 days starts tomorrow night.

Corlose 15
08-09-2010, 10:08 PM
It must be the humidity, everyone seems overly bitchy today.

Were still in first, chill out.


People are allowed to be bitchy when you lose to the worst team in the American League and possibly the worst team in baseball.

Viva Medias B's
08-09-2010, 10:08 PM
It'll be a long postgamer for Ranger. I wonder how long it will before first "FIRE GREG WALKER!!!!" call takes place.

OmahaSoxFan
08-09-2010, 10:08 PM
Orioles > White Sox.

Sad but true... dare I say it... Baltimore is a better team? Sure looked like it... have to hope this is nothing but a speed bump and not exposing this team for what they are.

35th and Shields
08-09-2010, 10:09 PM
These last few games really make me wish we got Dunn.

Craig Grebeck
08-09-2010, 10:09 PM
Randy Williams > Jim Thome

MarySwiss
08-09-2010, 10:09 PM
Glad I got on here early.

Everything sucks; I get that.

Meanwhile, we're tied for first with the Twinkies, a team I hate beyond all others. Let's kick their asses, please. A three-game sweep would be nice. In fact, I DEMAND a three-game sweep.

Anything else would be uncivilized. :cool:

peelwonder
08-09-2010, 10:09 PM
Jeez people...step back from the ledge.....Orioles are playing for jobs right now and they just swept the Angels.....they also won 4 in a row at Texas....was it a good series? **** no...but we aren't that bad

1989
08-09-2010, 10:09 PM
You know that feeling that you get when you see a beloved pet suffering and you decide you just have to put it to sleep? That combined feeling of sadness and relief? That's how I feel about the result of this game.

Frater Perdurabo
08-09-2010, 10:09 PM
It's a good thing that our offense is so good that KW didn't need to trade for a hitter.

Woofer
08-09-2010, 10:09 PM
I can tell you this. The Twins will take relish in kicking our dead ass team all over its home field tomorrow.

Zakath
08-09-2010, 10:09 PM
Carlos Quentin is horrible at hitting on the road.

.191 coming into this one. OPS a full 300 points below what he hits at home.

Hartman
08-09-2010, 10:10 PM
If your hair isn't on fire after this series, check your pulse. None of this "we're still in first" bull****.

PeteWard
08-09-2010, 10:10 PM
Sad but true... dare I say it... Baltimore is a better team? Sure looked like it... have to hope this is nothing but a speed bump and not exposing this team for what they are.

:rolleyes: Oh for ****'s sake, get real.

WhiteSox5187
08-09-2010, 10:10 PM
Quentin is hitting .185 for August and .182 for the past four weeks.

Jurr
08-09-2010, 10:10 PM
It is amazing what a little pressure can show.
Andruw Jones swings at nary a hittable pitch. Rios and Quentin get schooled.

Edwin Jackson deserved better.

This team needs a bat.

thomas35forever
08-09-2010, 10:11 PM
Here comes the "KW should have gotten a bat and now we won't win ****" crowd again.

Hartman
08-09-2010, 10:11 PM
Gonzalez can't come within 3 feet of the plate and Jones goes up there hacking :scratch::angry:

PeteWard
08-09-2010, 10:12 PM
Here comes the "KW should have gotten a bat and now we won't win ****" crowd again.

No, it's the Os are a better team crowd.

SCCWS
08-09-2010, 10:12 PM
.191 coming into this one. OPS a full 300 points below what he hits at home.

Why don't they let him take his teddy bear on the road?

Craig Grebeck
08-09-2010, 10:12 PM
Here comes the "KW should have gotten a bat and now we won't win ****" crowd again.
Man, who can tell what drew those rubes out of the woodwork.

O, haiiiii Andruw Jones can o' corn/strikeout.

guillensdisciple
08-09-2010, 10:12 PM
Well, we deserve this. We do it to ourselves. I am not getting angry over losses anymore.

You have to win the next series, or I believe our cinderella run could be over.

The White Sox, during the final two months of the season, always find ways to lose. Brian Roberts hit his first home run, Putz gives his first run on the road.

Paulie makes an error, Dayan makes an error.

Wow, this series is devastating.

MARTINMVP
08-09-2010, 10:12 PM
Hopefully just a bad series. The pressure is on more than ever to get over our Twins complex and finally set them straight.

Plenty of time left in the year, yet, still rather bone chilling knowing the Twins and the Sox are tied. Ughhhh.

Beyond that, what else is there to be said about the last four games except ****ing unbelievable.

AlexRios51
08-09-2010, 10:12 PM
I was so excited about this upcoming series, now I will skip the entire series and wait to feast on the Tigers.

OmahaSoxFan
08-09-2010, 10:13 PM
:rolleyes: Oh for ****'s sake, get real.

Okay maybe I went overboard there, but the Sox have struggled against the Orioles lately, and this series was no exception. Just frustrating how **** teams like the Orioles, Royals and Indians basically own us... and any games against these teams usually are just painful to watch.

WhiteSox5187
08-09-2010, 10:13 PM
Carlos has been clueless for about ten days in a row now, both at the plate and in RF.

At least Jones is playing a solid OF.

Heh, I'm going back and forth between two threads.

Quentin is hitting under .200 for four weeks now. It's feast or famine with him.

Corlose 15
08-09-2010, 10:13 PM
I don't want to be told to step back off the ledge and I don't want to be told how good Buck Showalter has this team playing. They're 30 games under .500 and just won their SIXTH SERIES OF THE YEAR.

A good team goes in and obliterates that worthless sack of ****. This doesn't mean the season is over but everyone has the right to be pissed about this horse**** series.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
08-09-2010, 10:14 PM
55 guests.

Hi Twins fans!

TCentral
08-09-2010, 10:14 PM
Sox and Twins with the exact same home and road record.... here we go.

thomas35forever
08-09-2010, 10:14 PM
I was so excited about this upcoming series, now I will skip the entire series and wait to feast on the Tigers.
Get off the bandwagon then. Real fans don't take breaks from their teams just because they played a bad series.

OmahaSoxFan
08-09-2010, 10:14 PM
I don't want to be told to step back off the ledge and I don't want to be told how good Buck Showalter has this team playing. They're 30 games under .500 and just won their SIXTH SERIES OF THE YEAR.

A good team goes in and obliterates that worthless sack of ****. This doesn't mean the season is over but everyone has the right to be pissed about this horse**** series.

Totally agreed... just have to hope this is just a bad series before this team goes on another run! Here is hoping that Sweaty Freddy brings his A game tomorrow, the Sox will need it, in their current state.

soxfanreggie
08-09-2010, 10:15 PM
I guess we'll find out if that's true or if Baltimore really is hot over the next week.

I'm going to see them play in Tampa this weekend and am looking forward to compare them to what I saw this spring from them (they have ST in Sarasota, so I went to a bunch of games as my family has ST "season" tickets for them).

As for this series, we wasted some good pitching performances with crappy offense. This team cannot go to Minnesota and play like this, as we gave away our cushion these past few days.

PeteWard
08-09-2010, 10:15 PM
Okay maybe I went overboard there, but the Sox have struggled against the Orioles lately, and this series was no exception. Just frustrating how **** teams like the Orioles, Royals and Indians basically own us... and any games against these teams usually are just painful to watch.

A disgusting series, I agree, and the absolute worst time to go into a collective slump. They had better wake up tomorrow.

WhiteSox5187
08-09-2010, 10:15 PM
I said it earlier in another thread, you can't lose three out of four to a team that is thirty games under in August in a pennant race.

Also, Quentin is the most maddeningly inconsistent hitters on this team.

MarySwiss
08-09-2010, 10:15 PM
I can tell you this. The Twins will take relish in kicking our dead ass team all over its home field tomorrow.

Your post is not very clear, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you know that the Twins are playing the next three games in Chicago and that they no longer play at the Metrodome.

Hartman
08-09-2010, 10:15 PM
I was so excited about this upcoming series, now I will skip the entire series and wait to feast on the Tigers.

Feast on the Tigers? :rolleyes: We just lost 3 of 4 to a team who is 30 god damn games under 500.

Frater Perdurabo
08-09-2010, 10:15 PM
Here comes the "KW should have gotten a bat and now we won't win ****" crowd again.

I never said "we won't win **** again."

And I for one am quite pleased with Jackson and I'm glad we're keeping him.

However, it's plainly obvious that this team is one hitter short, and struggles by Quentin (streaky) and AJ (has been brutal all year) are killing this offense.

Just think, for $1 million, we could have had Jim Thome DH-ing and producing a .948 OPS. But Ozzie wouldn't be able to find him enough ABs, and KW listened to Ozzie's foolishness, and now we're one hitter short.

guillensdisciple
08-09-2010, 10:15 PM
Bullpen gutted, waste of starting pitching, no hitting.

This is a doomsday scenario coming into the Twins series.

We either win it, or they sweep us. Tomorrow is a must win for our confidence, or I think they destroy us.

kittle42
08-09-2010, 10:16 PM
Man, who can tell what drew those rubes out of the woodwork.

O, haiiiii Andruw Jones can o' corn/strikeout.

Oh, haiiii, Doggie.

Jerko
08-09-2010, 10:16 PM
Sox and Royals only 2 teams O's have a winning record against over the past 4 years. (per Baltimore telecast last night). That is bad.

WhiteSox5187
08-09-2010, 10:17 PM
A disgusting series, I agree, and the absolute worst time to go into a collective slump. They had better wake up tomorrow.

Well, you know the great thing about baseball is a team (and especially THIS team) can look lost for a series against miserable pitchers and a miserable god damn team and then go out and destroy good pitching and a good team.

Pablo_Honey
08-09-2010, 10:17 PM
This offense just isn't clicking together. Even when we have something going, somebody's gotta piss on the parade and end it abruptly. On the bright side, how about that Edwin Jackson?

1989
08-09-2010, 10:18 PM
Baker scratched tomorrow. Joe Mays starting

Milkman43
08-09-2010, 10:18 PM
I guess the only positive thing to take away from tonight's awful showing is that Edwin pitched well again. Besides for a couple bad pitches yesterday by Buehrle, the starters threw the ball well this series. Andruw Jones looks as bad as a hitter can look right now.

Sockinchisox
08-09-2010, 10:18 PM
Oh, haiiii, Doggie.

This team is tearing me apart like Lisa.

roylestillman
08-09-2010, 10:18 PM
Man you think we're crabby tonight? Is anybody listening to Melton? "We're April bad," was just one of his comments

WhiteSox5187
08-09-2010, 10:18 PM
Man, who can tell what drew those rubes out of the woodwork.

O, haiiiii Andruw Jones can o' corn/strikeout.

At the very least Jones adds some degree of defense, but god damn, I swear I could put together some better ABs of late.

thomas35forever
08-09-2010, 10:19 PM
Well, we deserve this. We do it to ourselves. I am not getting angry over losses anymore.

You have to win the next series, or I believe our cinderella run could be over.

The White Sox, during the final two months of the season, always find ways to lose. Brian Roberts hit his first home run, Putz gives his first run on the road.

Paulie makes an error, Dayan makes an error.

Wow, this series is devastating.

Bullpen gutted, waste of starting pitching, no hitting.

This is a doomsday scenario coming into the Twins series.

We either win it, or they sweep us. Tomorrow is a must win for our confidence, or I think they destroy us.

:chickenlittle

Hartman
08-09-2010, 10:19 PM
Baker scratched tomorrow. Joe Mays starting

Whoopdie do, the higher the ERA, the more we make them look like Cy Young.

october23sp
08-09-2010, 10:19 PM
I wish Paulie didn't hit that home run. Getting walked off ****ing sucks.

OmahaSoxFan
08-09-2010, 10:19 PM
Baker scratched tomorrow. Joe Mays starting

I don't know whether to be happy, or worried... hopefully not the beginning of Cy Mays :o:...

LoveYourSuit
08-09-2010, 10:19 PM
As evidence to all the the small ball losers, I hate ****ing bunting a guy from 1st to 2nd with no outs. :angry:

It is is the most useless use of an out one can imagine.

We did it twice. :angry:

AlexRios51
08-09-2010, 10:20 PM
Get off the bandwagon then. Real fans don't take breaks from their teams just because they played a bad series.
Who are you to call me a bandwagon fan. How about you pay for my tickets for this series, I'm not taking a break from the team just not going to any games like I planned, just because your pissed we lost don't get all high and mighty with me.

MARTINMVP
08-09-2010, 10:20 PM
Man you think we're crabby tonight? Is anybody listening to Melton? "We're April bad," was just one of his comments

I stayed skeptical all through June, caught on in full excitement through July. But in the back of my mind, I always thought there was a chance that the team from April and May could return at anytime. Again, I hope this was just a bad series. Right now, I'm still giving them the benefit of the doubt.

thomas35forever
08-09-2010, 10:20 PM
As evidence to all the the small ball losers, I hate ****ing bunting a guy from 1st to 2nd with no outs. :angry:

It is is the most useless use of an out one can imagine.

We did it twice. :angry:
Would you rather go back to the lineup of station-to-station mashers?

guillensdisciple
08-09-2010, 10:20 PM
Baker scratched tomorrow. Joe Mays starting
They know our weakness.

P.S.

I know this is neither here or there but in those a.l central threads, after Minnesota won a mod removed one of the twins fans (Justinmorneau) and I called Karma right after that.

I am not making a point, but it is such a funny coincidence.

sox1970
08-09-2010, 10:20 PM
I don't whether to be happy, or worried... hopefully not the beginning of Cy Mays :o:...

You know Joe Mays has been out of baseball for 3 years, right?

WhiteSox5187
08-09-2010, 10:21 PM
As evidence to all the the small ball losers, I hate ****ing bunting a guy from 1st to 2nd with no outs. :angry:

It is is the most useless use of an out one can imagine.

We did it twice. :angry:

I like sacrifice bunts, but moving a guy from first to second always confuses me.

DirtySox
08-09-2010, 10:21 PM
The offense disgusts me.

Corlose 15
08-09-2010, 10:21 PM
As evidence to all the the small ball losers, I hate ****ing bunting a guy from 1st to 2nd with no outs. :angry:

It is is the most useless use of an out one can imagine.

We did it twice. :angry:

Especially when the baserunner leads the league in steals?

Frater Perdurabo
08-09-2010, 10:21 PM
For comparison purposes, Kotsay has a .733 OPS v. RHP. Thome's is 1.022 v. RHP.

And it's not like we're talking about a clubhouse cancer here. It's Jim Thome, for crying out loud.

Does anyone seriously believe that Mark Kotsay's "chemistry" is worth a .289 difference in OPS v. RHP, at the one position where you don't have to field a position?

(And for the record, Kotsay has a .091 OPS v. LHP, while Thome has a .646 OPS v. LHP).

thomas35forever
08-09-2010, 10:21 PM
Who are you to call me a bandwagon fan. How about you pay for my tickets for this series, I'm not taking a break from the team just not going to any games like I planned, just because your pissed we lost don't get all high and mighty with me.
You didn't clarify that you had tickets.

Hartman
08-09-2010, 10:21 PM
While we're blowing people up, when is the last time Rios hit a HR? Seems like months.

LoveYourSuit
08-09-2010, 10:21 PM
I wish Paulie didn't hit that home run. Getting walked off ****ing sucks.


I rather have some chance to no chance.

But on a different take, we burned another inning off Thornton and our useless bats couldn't scratch another run off the worst pitching staff in the game.

AlexRios51
08-09-2010, 10:21 PM
Feast on the Tigers? :rolleyes: We just lost 3 of 4 to a team who is 30 god damn games under 500.
We always play bad against the O's and play well against Detroit.

Woofer
08-09-2010, 10:21 PM
Your post is not very clear, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you know that the Twins are playing the next three games in Chicago and that they no longer play at the Metrodome.

What I meant is that the Twins will show up to play tomorrow. Will our team?

I know exactly where they are playing, I've already spent money on tickets for the game tomorrow.

Mizzourah
08-09-2010, 10:21 PM
If the Sox don't win this year then Ozzie needs to go. All the at bats wasted on Kotsay. No Thome. All the bunt attempts. Today on a guy that cannot throw strikes.

Ozzie is entertaining and does many things well. But this type of offense does not win for extended periods.

kevingrt
08-09-2010, 10:22 PM
Unreal how bad our hitting is right now. This streaky hitting is so annoying. We really need TCQ to come back to life to make this order flow. I hate having him be the thing we need to turn around for this offense. Or we could use AJ getting a base hit more then every fifth game.

DirtySox
08-09-2010, 10:22 PM
For comparison purposes, Kotsay has a .733 OPS v. RHP. Thome's is 1.022 v. RHP.

And it's not like we're talking about a clubhouse cancer here. It's Jim Thome, for crying out loud.

Does anyone seriously believe that Mark Kotsay's "chemistry" is worth a .289 difference in OPS v. RHP, at the one position where you don't have to field a position?

(And for the record, Kotsay has a .091 OPS v. LHP, while Thome has a .646 OPS v. LHP).

Argument invalid. Thome doesn't put the ball in play enough. We finally aren't softball team etc.

AlexRios51
08-09-2010, 10:22 PM
You didn't clarify that you had tickets.
Wasn't aware I was supposed too, maybe you should ask before you make comments like that.

JB98
08-09-2010, 10:22 PM
While we're blowing people up, when is the last time Rios hit a HR? Seems like months.

August 3 vs. Detroit.

Craig Grebeck
08-09-2010, 10:22 PM
Would you rather go back to the lineup of station-to-station mashers?

Uh, yes. If they're good hitters. This team has guys that aren't station to station, but god-awful hitters. Jones, Kotsay, Pierzynski, etc.

LoveYourSuit
08-09-2010, 10:22 PM
Especially when the baserunner leads the league in steals?


If anything, we should already know that scoring a guy from 2nd or 3rd with less than two outs is far from a given with our offense.


STOP WASTING OUTS :angry:

PeteWard
08-09-2010, 10:22 PM
As evidence to all the the small ball losers, I hate ****ing bunting a guy from 1st to 2nd with no outs. :angry:

It is is the most useless use of an out one can imagine.

We did it twice. :angry:

Well, depends on the scre, the inning, the pitcher, who is up, who is on and who follows. But the Sox do bunt too much. I didn't mind it in the 10th but in the 9th when their pitchers were rattled, I would have been hitting.

kevingrt
08-09-2010, 10:22 PM
If the Sox don't win this year then Ozzie needs to go. All the at bats wasn't on Kotsay. No Thome. All the bunt attempts. Today on a guy that cannot throw strikes.

Ozzie is entertaining and does many things well. But this type of offense does not win for extended periods.

Is it really his fault when guys can't get runners in with a runner on third and less then two outs?

thomas35forever
08-09-2010, 10:23 PM
If the Sox don't win this year then Ozzie needs to go. All the at bats wasn't on Kotsay. No Thome. All the bunt attempts. Today on a guy that cannot throw strikes.

Ozzie is entertaining and does many things well. But this type of offense does not win for extended periods.
What an insightful first post.:rolleyes:

WhiteSox5187
08-09-2010, 10:24 PM
Would you rather go back to the lineup of station-to-station mashers?

No no no, I think I'm on the record as being a fan of moving guys over and such, but moving a guy to second with one out kind of confuses me. I guess if you have a double play candidate who is struggling like AJ I can KIND of get it, but I dunno. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

happydude
08-09-2010, 10:24 PM
C'mon guys! Sure the O's series sucked and we just suffered a painful (but not unlikely) walk off loss. At the same time, we're tied with Minnesota for first with exactly 50 games left. We made up all the ground we lost from the horrible start and now its 0 to 0. Let the best team win...

Craig Grebeck
08-09-2010, 10:24 PM
What an insightful first post.:rolleyes:

There's more there than the usual "longball droolz!" tripe that's been squealed in this thread.

kevingrt
08-09-2010, 10:24 PM
Well, depends on the scre, the inning, the pitcher, who is up, who is on and who follows. But the Sox do bunt too much. I didn't mind it in the 10th but in the 9th when their pitchers were rattled, I would have been hitting.

And it's not like AJ can really hit a ball anywhere so you might as well make the most out of his AB's. I know he bunted in the 9th but he probably would have hit into a DP if he swung. As for the Alexei bunt in the 10th I wasn't happy. You have Juan on 1B. Can't he steal or maybe hit and run with Alexei?

But yes we bunt way too much in the weirdest situations.

LoveYourSuit
08-09-2010, 10:24 PM
Would you rather go back to the lineup of station-to-station mashers?


This is still a HR htitting team, that's the only way they have big offensive nights.

soxinem1
08-09-2010, 10:24 PM
We're doomed.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v618/Rubyduby617/Glum_Liliputian.png

Domeshot17
08-09-2010, 10:24 PM
This happens to bad offensive teams. We have a bad offense. It better wake up FAST.

The truth is we will most likely be within a game 1 way or another after the Minnesota series. Pissing away layup games like these, these are what haunts 2nd place teams in October.

Mizzourah
08-09-2010, 10:24 PM
I believe in stats on offense. Not bunts. 27 World Series to the Bronx Bombers not the Bronx bunters. Sick of throwing away outs.

Lip Man 1
08-09-2010, 10:24 PM
This series reminds me of the first two months of the season. I don't know if these guys look tired or if the pressure is getting to them.

They'll have a lot to think about tonight on the trip home. We'll see if they show any life tomorrow after getting in about 4AM.

Lip

Frankfan4life
08-09-2010, 10:25 PM
Sad but true... dare I say it... Baltimore is a better team? Sure looked like it... have to hope this is nothing but a speed bump and not exposing this team for what they are.Our pitching has been great but the hitting has been atrocious. There's been a total lack of plate discipline and horrible pitch selection. These seem to be things that can be controlled but for some reason, it has been allowed to continue game after game and at-bat after at-bat. I'm just at a loss as to why.

Corlose 15
08-09-2010, 10:25 PM
For comparison purposes, Kotsay has a .733 OPS v. RHP. Thome's is 1.022 v. RHP.

And it's not like we're talking about a clubhouse cancer here. It's Jim Thome, for crying out loud.

Does anyone seriously believe that Mark Kotsay's "chemistry" is worth a .289 difference in OPS v. RHP, at the one position where you don't have to field a position?

(And for the record, Kotsay has a .091 OPS v. LHP, while Thome has a .646 OPS v. LHP).

I was ok with them not bringing Thome back because ultimately I thought they could do better with someone who isn't worthless against LHP and could play the field so that they could rotate Konerko, and Quentin through the DH slot to give them "days off".

Unfortunately that player never materialized and they're stuck with Kotsay and Jones.

Craig Grebeck
08-09-2010, 10:25 PM
Can we all at least appreciate that this team chose Randy Williams over Jim Thome? That makes me smile, at least.

Frater Perdurabo
08-09-2010, 10:26 PM
Argument invalid. Thome doesn't put the ball in play enough. We finally aren't softball team etc.

I know, I know. Ozzie is always right. Even when he thought he was wrong, he was merely mistaken. I never played baseball, so I know nothing. I'm not worthy to gaze upon him in his infinite glory.

WhiteSox1989
08-09-2010, 10:26 PM
bad.

kevingrt
08-09-2010, 10:27 PM
This series reminds me of the first two months of the season. I don't know if these guys look tired or if the pressure is getting to them.

They'll have a lot to think about tonight on the trip home. We'll see if they show any life tomorrow after getting in about 4AM.

Lip

Really. They'll be on a plane by 11 PM CT. What a 2.5 hour flight from Baltimore to Chicago. They'll be in by 2 AM CT. That's an extra two hours of sleep. Two hours of sleep = four extra runs. That's the math I was taught in college.

Pablo_Honey
08-09-2010, 10:27 PM
Oh dear, I fear we will have yet another "Fire Walker" thread coming up. I think the offense is just in a funk. I had a bad feeling with us facing a rookie lefty so I'm not all that surprised but it pisses me off that they pissed away good chances. Still, sky isn't falling the last time I checked and it still ain't falling.

AlexRios51
08-09-2010, 10:27 PM
Can we all at least appreciate that this team chose Randy Williams over Jim Thome? That makes me smile, at least.
Thanks, you just gave me an idea for a sign to take to the game this weekend. Thanks KW and Ozzie for choosing Randy Williams or Jim Thome, hows that working out.

thomas35forever
08-09-2010, 10:28 PM
This is still a HR htitting team, that's the only way they have big offensive nights.
That's not the team Ozzie wanted and frankly, I was sick of the home run or nothing approach. Yes we still hit for power but I agree that we still rely on it too much. However I admire KW for trying to go this route in the offseason (though I know Ozzie had a say in it).

I believe in stats on offense. Not bunts. 27 World Series to the Bronx Bombers not the Bronx bunters. Sick of throwing away outs.
Are you suggesting the Yankees won all those titles on home runs and nothing else?

WhiteSox5187
08-09-2010, 10:28 PM
There's more there than the usual "longball droolz!" tripe that's been squealed in this thread.

For what it's worth, my own problem with Sox offenses since '05 haven't been that there are lots of home runs to be had but rather that that is the only thing the team could do. You need to have the ability to generate some offense and beat guys that way too and for a long time the Sox didn't have that and not only that but they had four guys batting in a row who couldn't score from second on a single or go from first to third and it's hard to score a lot of runs when that is the case.

kevingrt
08-09-2010, 10:28 PM
:chickenlittle

Exactly what this thread is or will become.

1989
08-09-2010, 10:28 PM
If anything, we should already know that scoring a guy from 2nd or 3rd with less than two outs is far from a given with our offense.


STOP WASTING OUTS :angry:

This post is correct. Stop bunting

LoveYourSuit
08-09-2010, 10:28 PM
For comparison purposes, Kotsay has a .733 OPS v. RHP. Thome's is 1.022 v. RHP.

And it's not like we're talking about a clubhouse cancer here. It's Jim Thome, for crying out loud.

Does anyone seriously believe that Mark Kotsay's "chemistry" is worth a .289 difference in OPS v. RHP, at the one position where you don't have to field a position?

(And for the record, Kotsay has a .091 OPS v. LHP, while Thome has a .646 OPS v. LHP).



Here's an equation for 2010:

(Sox + Jim Thome) + (Twins - Jim Thome) = About 4-5 games in the standings easily.


It would suck if the factor that loses this division for us is Jim Thome.

SoxSpeed22
08-09-2010, 10:30 PM
Or it's possible that the Sox are coming back to Earth after their great July and mid-June. A team with an inconsistent offense is bound to be streaky.

Mizzourah
08-09-2010, 10:30 PM
If they do not win this year Ozzie needs to go. He designed the team. He acted like an ass when his kid did not get a huge bonus.

We'll always have 2005, but his b.s. has gotten old. Not making the playoffs in 2006 is on him. Flat playoffs and wasting numerous opportunities in 2008 is on him.

And this year is totally on him. So he better come up big now. He was awful in this series. Time for him to shut up and win.

Frater Perdurabo
08-09-2010, 10:31 PM
I was ok with them not bringing Thome back because ultimately I thought they could do better with someone who isn't worthless against LHP and could play the field so that they could rotate Konerko, and Quentin through the DH slot to give them "days off".

Unfortunately that player never materialized and they're stuck with Kotsay and Jones.

Your second statement (bolding mine) is the problem with the team, and why not signing Thome was such a bad decision.

And let's be honest here. This was not a "mistake." Mistakes are when you spill your kool aid or press the wrong number on your phone. Not signing Thome - so we could keep Kotsay (and/or Williams) - was a bad decision. In fact, it was more than just a run-of-the-mill bad decision. It was a horrible decision, given the context/aftermath.

thomas35forever
08-09-2010, 10:31 PM
Here's an equation for 2010:

(Sox + Jim Thome) + (Twins - Jim Thome) = About 4-5 games in the standings easily.


It would suck if the factor that loses this division for us is Jim Thome.
I call bull**** on this theory. How can you be certain that Thome will be THE reason we lose this division? There are a whole lot of other things go into a contending team and to me, Thome is nothing more at this point in his career than just a regular player in the lineup who'll hit the occasional homer.

JB98
08-09-2010, 10:31 PM
As I've said many times, the lack of a left-handed bat is on Kenny Williams.

He's in charge of putting together the roster. He's in charge of protecting Ozzie Guillen from himself.

I don't necessarily care that they cut Thome loose. The problem is they never replaced him with somebody else.

The Sox have to hope Quentin gets his **** together. His inability to hit worth a damn took the bat out of Konerko's hands twice tonight. We can't have teams feeling like they can walk our best hitter intentionally without penalty.

guillensdisciple
08-09-2010, 10:31 PM
Not going to give up on this yet.

We will make the playoffs.

PeteWard
08-09-2010, 10:32 PM
Really. They'll be on a plane by 11 PM CT. What a 2.5 hour flight from Baltimore to Chicago. They'll be in by 2 AM CT. That's an extra two hours of sleep. Two hours of sleep = four extra runs. That's the math I was taught in college.

Remeber the Angels bitching about flying into Chi for the 1st game of the ALCS after beating the Yankees? I think they got in at 5:00 am and the media was all over it. Then they got their only win of the series! Sox have no excuses. Just go out and hammer them tomorrow. If they are too tired for such a key series, then they don't deserve to win.

LoveYourSuit
08-09-2010, 10:32 PM
Or it's possible that the Sox are coming back to Earth after their great July and mid-June. A team with an inconsistent offense is bound to be streaky.

I think our pitching is as good as it is. That was not a mirage during the streak.


I am starting to have doubts about the sticks.


But if we can just get in, man our pitching staff is as good as any for October.

DirtySox
08-09-2010, 10:32 PM
Here's an equation for 2010:

(Sox + Jim Thome) + (Twins - Jim Thome) = About 4-5 games in the standings easily.


It would suck if the factor that loses this division for us is Jim Thome.

Go compare WAR. Thome's about 1.8 with Kotsay at -.7 currently.

Frater Perdurabo
08-09-2010, 10:32 PM
Oh dear, I fear we will have yet another "Fire Walker" thread coming up. I think the offense is just in a funk. I had a bad feeling with us facing a rookie lefty so I'm not all that surprised but it pisses me off that they pissed away good chances. Still, sky isn't falling the last time I checked and it still ain't falling.

I'm not blaming Walker for tonight, although I'm still suspect of his body of work as a hitting coach.

Walker wasn't responsible for the Sox not signing Thome. He wasn't responsible for Kotsay coming into possession of Ozzie in compromising situations.

LoveYourSuit
08-09-2010, 10:33 PM
I call bull**** on this theory. How can you be certain that Thome will be THE reason we lose this division? There are a whole lot of other things go into a contending team and to me, Thome is nothing more at this point in his career than just a regular player in the lineup who'll hit the occasional homer.


When have I said that we are going to lose the division?

Clean the glasses, go read it again.

Frater Perdurabo
08-09-2010, 10:34 PM
That's not the team Ozzie wanted and frankly, I was sick of the home run or nothing approach. Yes we still hit for power but I agree that we still rely on it too much. However I admire KW for trying to go this route in the offseason (though I know Ozzie had a say in it).

Ozzie's formula started with from "home run or nothing," subtracted the "home run," thus leaving "nothing."

Craig Grebeck
08-09-2010, 10:34 PM
I call bull**** on this theory. How can you be certain that Thome will be THE reason we lose this division? There are a whole lot of other things go into a contending team and to me, Thome is nothing more at this point in his career than just a regular player in the lineup who'll hit the occasional homer.
Which is a magnificent upgrade over our current DH production.

PeteWard
08-09-2010, 10:35 PM
Not going to give up on this yet.



I should say not. Sox are tied for first!

southsideirish71
08-09-2010, 10:35 PM
Originally Posted by DirtySox http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=2587812#post2587812)
Argument invalid. Thome doesn't put the ball in play enough. We finally aren't softball team etc.


Andruw Jones makes Jim Thome seem like a contact hitter with his approach at the plate, or did you miss him falling over striking out. Kotsay does make more contact, but that sub 700 OPS is not something that one would want in a position called "designated hitter"

While we are not a softball team we are in the American League in modern times. Most teams have a semi-competant hitter in the DH spot. We have a comedy routine.

JB98
08-09-2010, 10:35 PM
It's funny to me that all this Thome/Kotsay talk is going on tonight.

Matusz is a left-handed pitcher. Kotsay didn't play. If Thome was on the Sox roster, he wouldn't have played tonight. Viciedo played. He stunk. Quentin played. He stunk. Jones played. He stunk. Lillibridge played. He stunk.

Posters here wanted more Viciedo and Lillibridge and less Kotsay. Well, those guys stunk tonight, especially Viciedo.

soxinem1
08-09-2010, 10:36 PM
As I've said many times, the lack of a left-handed bat is on Kenny Williams.

He's in charge of putting together the roster. He's in charge of protecting Ozzie Guillen from himself.

I don't necessarily care that they cut Thome loose. The problem is they never replaced him with somebody else.

The Sox have to hope Quentin gets his **** together. His inability to hit worth a damn took the bat out of Konerko's hands twice tonight. We can't have teams feeling like they can walk our best hitter intentionally without penalty.

http://www.dotbingo.com/images/bingo-card.jpg

thomas35forever
08-09-2010, 10:36 PM
When have I said that we are going to lose the division?

Clean the glasses, go read it again.
What got to me is that you think we'd have a sizable lead if he were in the lineup.

LoveYourSuit
08-09-2010, 10:36 PM
As I've said many times, the lack of a left-handed bat is on Kenny Williams.

He's in charge of putting together the roster. He's in charge of protecting Ozzie Guillen from himself.

I don't necessarily care that they cut Thome loose. The problem is they never replaced him with somebody else.

The Sox have to hope Quentin gets his **** together. His inability to hit worth a damn took the bat out of Konerko's hands twice tonight. We can't have teams feeling like they can walk our best hitter intentionally without penalty.

What affordable LH bat could Kenny have picked up that would have pleased Ozzie?


Affordable is the key word. There was no one.

And he tried to get Damon, and he picked Detroit.

WhiteSox5187
08-09-2010, 10:37 PM
If they do not win this year Ozzie needs to go. He designed the team. He acted like an ass when his kid did not get a huge bonus.

We'll always have 2005, but his b.s. has gotten old. Not making the playoffs in 2006 is on him. Flat playoffs and wasting numerous opportunities in 2008 is on him.

And this year is totally on him. So he better come up big now. He was awful in this series. Time for him to shut up and win.

So we're just going to wave any degree of responsibility held by Kenny? He is the guy who is paid to design these teams, not Ozzie.

The argument about Ozzie's kid is stupid, Ozzie's son Oney complained, Ozzie said nothing except "I am disappointed not because the Sox didn't draft him higher but because my son is disappointed, but it's a business."

As for the 2008 argument, well...I think it's just a silly argument at best.

PeteWard
08-09-2010, 10:37 PM
When the smoke clears after next week's series in Minnesota, I think if either team has a two-game lead, that team will take the division. Just a feeling because that's how tough and close I think it will be.

Dibbs
08-09-2010, 10:38 PM
Adding a hitter was more important than swapping Hudson for Jackson. After watching "The Club", I have a little less faith in Kenny than I used to. I still like him, but Hahn seems like the man to me.

VMSNS
08-09-2010, 10:39 PM
The Sox just lost 3 out of 4 to the Baltimore Orioles, the worst team in Major League Baseball.

Just reading that statement makes me want to vomit in my mouth. For a team that is in first place, this is completely unacceptable. I don't want to hear any of that "Showalter is firing them up" bull****. The O's looked like **** tonight, swinging at pitch after pitch in the dirt and converging on infield pop-ups like a bunch of ants. They also could only get one run in after loading the bases with one out in the 6th. The O's are a very, very, very bad team and we lost to them because of our atrociously streaky offense, not because Showalter has some kind of magic potion.

It's a shame because Edwin pitched well tonight.

Win the series VS the Twins and we'll be in a much better place, but I fear that if we give up 1st place to the Twinkies, we might never get back in.

LoveYourSuit
08-09-2010, 10:39 PM
What got to me is that you think we'd have a sizable lead if he were in the lineup.


You wouldn't think that?

Based on what Kotsay has done this year compared to Thome, you don't think that would be about 3-4 wins more for us somewhere?


You don't think Thome has accounted to 2-3 wins for the Twins this year?

That's a about a 5 game swing right there.

Pablo_Honey
08-09-2010, 10:39 PM
When the smoke clears after next week's series in Minnesoata, I think if either team has a two-game lead, that team will take the division. Just a feeling because that's how tough and close I think it will be.
Yup, and that is the reality we must live in. The Sox aren't good enough to run away with it and the Twinkies are too goddamn stubborn to let go of the chase. I sense we might see another Game 163.

JB98
08-09-2010, 10:39 PM
What affordable LH bat could Kenny have picked up that would have pleased Ozzie?


Affordable is the key word. There was no one.

And he tried to get Damon, and he picked Detroit.

At the time, I wanted to sign Hideki Matsui. He was affordable. Maybe he hasn't had a great year, but he's better than Kotsay.

thomas35forever
08-09-2010, 10:39 PM
Which is a magnificent upgrade over our current DH production.
Probably.

On a related subject, did I step in a time machine and go back to May of this year? The attitudes expressed on here tonight make me think so.

Soxman219
08-09-2010, 10:40 PM
By the end of Thursday night when we're up 3 games you'll back on tonight and laugh.

SoxSpeed22
08-09-2010, 10:40 PM
I think our pitching is as good as it is. That was not a mirage during the streak.


I am starting to have doubts about the sticks.


But if we can just get in, man our pitching staff is as good as any for October.We've had doubts about the sticks since March. We can only hope that Kenny brings in someone. Russell Branyan might sound good at this point.
On a side note, Viciedo showed why he's not getting starts against righties. Even though he crushed that one in his first at bat, he looked clueless against a high fastball the rest of the night. Bad games happen, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Edit: And I completely forgot about Teahen. Whatever he can do is a bonus.

thomas35forever
08-09-2010, 10:40 PM
You wouldn't think that?

Based on what Kotsay has done this year compared to Thome, you don't think that would be about 3-4 wins more for us somewhere?


You don't think Thome has accounted to 2-3 wins for the Twins this year?

That's a about a 5 game swing right there.
I don't want to speculate on what could have been over what I feel is a petty issue. Yeah Thome would make a difference, but the other eight guys in the lineup have to hit as well.

PeteWard
08-09-2010, 10:40 PM
The Sox just lost 3 out of 4 to the Baltimore Orioles, the worst team in Major League Baseball.

Just reading that statement makes me want to vomit in my mouth. For a team that is in first place, this is completely unacceptable. I don't want to hear any of that "Showalter is firing them up" bull****. The O's looked like **** tonight, swinging at pitch after pitch in the dirt and converging on infield pop-ups like a bunch of ants. They also could only get one run in after loading the bases with one out in the 6th. The O's are a very, very, very bad team and we lost to them because of our atrociously streaky offense, not because Showalter has some kind of magic potion.

It's a shame because Edwin pitched well tonight.

Win the series VS the Twins and we'll be in a much better place, but I fear that if we give up 1st place to the Twinkies, we might never get back in.

I think everyone here agrees that Baltimore sucks and that this series sucked worse.

Frater Perdurabo
08-09-2010, 10:41 PM
It's funny to me that all this Thome/Kotsay talk is going on tonight.

Matusz is a left-handed pitcher. Kotsay didn't play. If Thome was on the Sox roster, he wouldn't have played tonight. Viciedo played. He stunk. Quentin played. He stunk. Jones played. He stunk. Lillibridge played. He stunk.

Posters here wanted more Viciedo and Lillibridge and less Kotsay. Well, those guys stunk tonight, especially Viciedo.

OK, Viciedo should have been DH-ing, and Vizquel should have been at third. Viciedo's error led to the second Oriole run. And I'm going to speculate that Viciedo would have been more focused at the plate if he had not made that error, which he would not have made if he had been DH-ing. I know I cannot prove this, but it is possible.

Pablo_Honey
08-09-2010, 10:41 PM
By the end of Thursday night when we're up 3 games you'll back on tonight and laugh.
And if we are 3 games back, we will think back on this night and go ape**** :tongue:

JB98
08-09-2010, 10:44 PM
OK, Viciedo should have been DH-ing, and Vizquel should have been at third. Viciedo's error led to the second Oriole run. And I'm going to speculate that Viciedo would have been more focused at the plate if he had not made that error, which he would not have made if he had been DH-ing. I know I cannot prove this, but it is possible.

It's a fair point to say Viciedo should not be playing 3B. I actually agree.

But the Kotsay talk tonight is a little odd to me. Maybe Kotsay didn't do a good enough job of cheering from the bench.

Kotsay is one of the few to swing the bat decent on this trip. The Sox don't win the Thursday game in Detroit without him. I don't want him as the DH either, but blaming him for tonight or any other game on this trip is misplaced anger, IMO.

WhiteSox5187
08-09-2010, 10:44 PM
Ozzie's formula started with from "home run or nothing," subtracted the "home run," thus leaving "nothing."

Umm...we are 7th in BA, 6th in OPS, 4th in HRs and 2nd in average with RISP. I'd hardly say we have nothing. Oh we are also averaging 5.3 runs a game since June.

DirtySox
08-09-2010, 10:44 PM
Andruw Jones makes Jim Thome seem like a contact hitter with his approach at the plate, or did you miss him falling over striking out. Kotsay does make more contact, but that sub 700 OPS is not something that one would want in a position called "designated hitter"

While we are not a softball team we are in the American League in modern times. Most teams have a semi-competant hitter in the DH spot. We have a comedy routine.

I'm very pro Thome and any other decent DH option. I was poking fun at some of the sentiments that are often expressed here. I don't like to use teal. Frater got it though.

LoveYourSuit
08-09-2010, 10:44 PM
At the time, I wanted to sign Hideki Matsui. He was affordable. Maybe he hasn't had a great year, but he's better than Kotsay.


Me too, I wanted him also.

But from all accounts he did not want to come here.

But isn't he another "station to station" guy?

Also, Kenny tried this trade deadline to get Berkman. He did not want to play here either.

Damon, Matsui, and now Berkman did not want to play here.

People don't want to come here. How do we fault Kenny for that?

And if he would have pulled the radical move of trading Lord Beckham for Dunn, fans would have burned down US Cellular Field to the ground. Hell, they almost burned it down for the Hudson for Jackson trade.

Lip Man 1
08-09-2010, 10:46 PM
Kevin:

And how long to get their luggage and get to where they live? Then how long to unwind and fall asleep?

Traveling with a basketball team like I do I can tell you from personal experience 4AM is about the time these guys will finally start dropping off to sleep.

Lip

JB98
08-09-2010, 10:46 PM
Me too, I wanted him also.

But from all accounts he did not want to come here.

But isn't he another "station to station" guy?

Also, Kenny tried this trade deadline to get Berkman. He did not want to play here either.

Damon, Matsui, and now Berkman did not want to play here.

People don't want to come here. How do we fault Kenny for that?

And if he would have pulled the radical move of trading Lord Beckham for Dunn, fans would have burned down US Cellular Field to the ground. Hell, they almost burned it down for the Hudson for Jackson trade.

I wouldn't have traded Beckham for 60 games of Adam Dunn either. If that was the price, I don't blame KW for walking away. He should have done something in the offseason, however.

shingo10
08-09-2010, 10:47 PM
When's the last time we won a sereis against the Twins?

I've got it as May of last year. That's ridiculous. I guess we're due.

As far as the O's series...I guess I'd rather have a little slump now than in September. That's about all I can say about it. Trying to stay positive.

Nelfox02
08-09-2010, 10:48 PM
C'mon guys! Sure the O's series sucked and we just suffered a painful (but not unlikely) walk off loss. At the same time, we're tied with Minnesota for first with exactly 50 games left. We made up all the ground we lost from the horrible start and now its 0 to 0. Let the best team win...


thats the problem, I really dont think we are the best team......I really didnt think we were going into this O's series, what happened only cemented my intial thoughts

WhiteSox5187
08-09-2010, 10:49 PM
Me too, I wanted him also.

But from all accounts he did not want to come here.

But isn't he another "station to station" guy?

Also, Kenny tried this trade deadline to get Berkman. He did not want to play here either.

Damon, Matsui, and now Berkman did not want to play here.

People don't want to come here. How do we fault Kenny for that?

And if he would have pulled the radical move of trading Lord Beckham for Dunn, fans would have burned down US Cellular Field to the ground. Hell, they almost burned it down for the Hudson for Jackson trade.

I haven't watched him a lot this year, but from what I can recall of his time with the Yankees he can score from second on a single fairly consistently and can go from first to third on a well hit single consistently too. Thome can't do that.

Soxman219
08-09-2010, 10:50 PM
Maybe time to look at Manny?

AlexRios51
08-09-2010, 10:50 PM
thats the problem, I really dont think we are the best team......I really didnt think we were going into this O's series, what happened only cemented my intial thoughts
We have the better starting pitching and bullpen, our offense just sucks ass.

Nelfox02
08-09-2010, 10:50 PM
Me too, I wanted him also.

Damon, Matsui, and now Berkman did not want to play here.



why do so many guys not want to play here?

SoxSpeed22
08-09-2010, 10:51 PM
Since June 7, Matsui has been hitting .222. I always thought his numbers were better as a product of being in the Yankees lineup.

Pablo_Honey
08-09-2010, 10:51 PM
Maybe time to look at Manny?
We tried to get him and the Dodgers declined. Besides, he's too much of a headcase and he's a juicer. I don't want him anywhere near on this team.

AlexRios51
08-09-2010, 10:52 PM
why do so many guys not want to play here?
My guess would be OZZIE.

PeteWard
08-09-2010, 10:52 PM
Kevin:

And how long to get their luggage and get to where they live? Then how long to unwind and fall asleep?

Traveling with a basketball team like I do I can tell you from personal experience 4AM is about the time these guys will finally start dropping off to sleep.

Lip

So what? They can still get 8 hours of sleep and get to the park in time.
I expect them to be jacked up and ready to win.

Nelfox02
08-09-2010, 10:52 PM
We have the better starting pitching and bullpen, our offense just sucks ass.


agree, but Pavano and Liriano are pretty solid, rest of that rotation sketchy, their pen is okay and Capps is a big upgrade

Does our pitching give us enough advantage to overcome the massive advantage thier line up gives them? they are a better fundamentals team as well, you could argue better defensively

Frater Perdurabo
08-09-2010, 10:53 PM
I remain confident that the Sox can and will win the division.

However, given the closeness of the race I think it will come down to the last series of the season and if so, the Sox will not be able to set up their rotation for the ALDS, which likely will begin in New York.

This posed a problem for them in 2008 when they faced three consecutive "must win" games; they had to start Vazquez in Game 1 and Danks couldn't pitch until Game 3. Even if they had won Buehrle's start in Game 2, Danks wouldn't have been able to pitch in Game 5. If the Sox had won a few more games at any point earlier in the season, they could have set up their rotation to have Danks and Buehrle pitch Games 1 and 2 in Tampa (since the Rays struggle against LHP), and thus both be available if necessary in Game 5.

Of course I'll be pleased if the Sox win the division under any circumstances this year. But obviously we'd like them to win by a couple games so they can set up their rotation for maximum success in the ALDS!

ChiSoxGirl
08-09-2010, 10:53 PM
Christ, what an awful series. :angry: We scored ten damn runs in four games. To put that in perspective, we scored 12 runs in the first game of the doubleheader against the Tigers! I sure as hell hope the Sox aren't reverting back to the team we saw in April and May, otherwise they could very well be doomed. We've seen these late season offensive collapses before, it's nothing new. They've GOT to turn this **** around. Minnesota's coming in for three and the Sox have to take at least two of those games, otherwise it could be detrimental to the team's psyche.

Pablo_Honey
08-09-2010, 10:53 PM
why do so many guys not want to play here?
Damon went after the dough, Matsui just liked the playing environment (weather and what not) of the Angels and Berkman has 2005 to remember. It all makes sense. We usually don't dish out enough money to net the greedy FAs, which I think is a good thing, and some guys just have weird quirks like how Fukudome wanted to be the first Jap player in franchise history.

PeteWard
08-09-2010, 10:55 PM
My guess would be OZZIE.

Nah, most want to be on one of the coasts, near their homes (not many upper midwest players out there) or with a glamour team--which the Sox ain't thank god.

thomas35forever
08-09-2010, 10:55 PM
My guess would be OZZIE.
You sound like a Cubs fan who hates Ozzie.

LongLiveFisk
08-09-2010, 10:55 PM
Yep, this really is like the '83 team.

We couldn't beat Baltimore then either!

PeteWard
08-09-2010, 10:56 PM
I remain confident that the Sox can and will win the division.

However, given the closeness of the race I think it will come down to the last series of the season and if so, the Sox will not be able to set up their rotation for the ALDS, which likely will begin in New York.

This posed a problem for them in 2008 when they faced three consecutive "must win" games; they had to start Vazquez in Game 1 and Danks couldn't pitch until Game 3. Even if they had won Buehrle's start in Game 2, Danks wouldn't have been able to pitch in Game 5. If the Sox had won a few more games at any point earlier in the season, they could have set up their rotation to have Danks and Buehrle pitch Games 1 and 2 in Tampa (since the Rays struggle against LHP), and thus both be available if necessary in Game 5.

Of course I'll be pleased if the Sox win the division under any circumstances this year. But obviously we'd like them to win by a couple games so they can set up their rotation for maximum success in the ALDS!

All problems I would be happy to face. :wink:

AlexRios51
08-09-2010, 10:57 PM
agree, but Pavano and Liriano are pretty solid, rest of that rotation sketchy, their pen is okay and Capps is a big upgrade

Does our pitching give us enough advantage to overcome the massive advantage thier line up gives them? they are a better fundamentals team as well, you could argue better defensively
Pavano is their only solid starter, Liriano is a question mark. The only advantage their lineup has against ours is the M&M boys, I think our pitching can control them. Capps doesn't make a difference if they don't have the guys to get the ball to him. Without a doubt their defense is way better than ours.

WhiteSox5187
08-09-2010, 10:57 PM
I remain confident that the Sox can and will win the division.

However, given the closeness of the race I think it will come down to the last series of the season and if so, the Sox will not be able to set up their rotation for the ALDS, which likely will begin in New York.

This posed a problem for them in 2008 when they faced three consecutive "must win" games; they had to start Vazquez in Game 1 and Danks couldn't pitch until Game 3. Even if they had won Buehrle's start in Game 2, Danks wouldn't have been able to pitch in Game 5. If the Sox had won a few more games at any point earlier in the season, they could have set up their rotation to have Danks and Buehrle pitch Games 1 and 2 in Tampa (since the Rays struggle against LHP), and thus both be available if necessary in Game 5.

Of course I'll be pleased if the Sox win the division under any circumstances this year. But obviously we'd like them to win by a couple games so they can set up their rotation for maximum success in the ALDS!

You know it's weird about that ALDS because I never thought about how they'd set up their rotation that year, but I think they might have done better had they had anyone but Big Game Javy pitch game one. But I think the Rays were a vastly better team than us in '08 and as I recall we played them tough in all of those games.

DrCrawdad
08-09-2010, 10:57 PM
Offense circa April 2010

Sadly true.

I don't give a **** how hot a team is. You blow that many opportunities, you're supposed to lose.
At least we got all of our crappy baseball out of the way before the Twins series.

A sweep of the Twins will wash all of this away. Anything less, not so much.

Two out of three would work.

A sweep would do wonders for my anger but 2 of 3 will do. Especially if the Sox shut the mouths of the Twits for a day.

We scored 10 runs in 4 days off a team with a 5.08 ERA. What a ****ing joke.

Again, sadly true.

AlexRios51
08-09-2010, 10:58 PM
You sound like a Cubs fan who hates Ozzie.
How I love Ozzie, he may just rub opposing players the wrong way.

PeteWard
08-09-2010, 10:59 PM
Pavano is their only solid starter, Liriano is a question mark. The only advantage their lineup has against ours is the M&M boys, I think our pitching can control them. Capps doesn't make a difference if they don't have the guys to get the ball to him. Without a doubt their defense is way better than ours.

I still think Pavano will come back down to earth soon.

LoveYourSuit
08-09-2010, 10:59 PM
Yep, this really is like the '83 team.

We couldn't beat Baltimore then either!


Except that team was pretty damn good.

Real good!

LoveYourSuit
08-09-2010, 11:00 PM
You sound like a Cubs fan who hates Ozzie.


You honestly think everyone except for Cub Fans love Ozzie?
Give me a break. :rolleyes:

PeteWard
08-09-2010, 11:02 PM
You know it's weird about that ALDS because I never thought about how they'd set up their rotation that year, but I think they might have done better had they had anyone but Big Game Javy pitch game one. But I think the Rays were a vastly better team than us in '08 and as I recall we played them tough in all of those games.

The Sox did not lay down but it just seemed like there was no way they could stop Tampa--Javy or no Javy. I still can't believe Philly beat them. I think the near-collapse against Bos. drained them while Phil had an easier time with whom...LA I think?

WhiteSox5187
08-09-2010, 11:02 PM
I am exhausted and am about to go to bed but I want to end on this note, this team has shown the ability to bounce back from adversity and baseball is such a weird game that the worst team in baseball can beat the best team in baseball in a series often. I wouldn't be shocked if the Sox came out, swept Minnesota and then went on a tear.

Lip Man 1
08-09-2010, 11:02 PM
Pete:

Easier said than done...we'll see.

Nelfox:

You asked "why do so many guys not want to come here..."

It's an interesting question. Let me tell you a story. When I was in Chicago recently I watched three games from up in the radio-TV booth area. I sat with a few members of the Sox front office, former players and some media people.

I honestly don't remember how it came up, I think it was in reference to the Berkman deal where he refused to come to Chicago.

One of the folks I was with had an interesting thought on this area.

They said (and I'm paraphrasing) the Sox fans are too hard on players, that the reputation of the fans is getting around the major leagues and that guys are starting to basically say they don't need it. They pointed to DeWayne Wise getting booed on opening day last year as an example and said that incident was "****ing ridiculous" (direct quote).

I mentioned in reply that they could be right and it's becoming an issue but I also said if that is the case, than some of these guys need to grow some stones or find another profession. I also said that if those guys think it's bad with the Sox, try New York, Philadelphia or Cub fans. I also said that a lot of fans may not be booing the player directly like Wise, but that they are booing him by proxy since they can't get a chance to confront Kenny or Ozzie over the fact that a lifetime .220 hitter is the starting center fielder and leadoff man for a team that's supposed to be a "contender."

The person I was speaking with didn't buy that argument.

It was an interesting dynamic up in the booth for a few minutes.

Lip

Foulke You
08-09-2010, 11:03 PM
Dark clouds in their glory tonight. It was the first really bad series in two months. If this thread doesn't show how spoiled we were, I don't know what does. There is a reason these are the Dog Days of Summer. This is the American League and if you don't play your best every night, even a bad team in our league can take you out. We know this team has offensive problems but the pitching is still there and I say pitching will decide this division. To say the season is over and that this series marks the beginning of the end is laughable and you will look foolish if the Sox have a 4W-2L homestand. We have won 20 of our last 22 games at home and people are acting like we have little to no chance tomorrow. The Sox have been a resilient bunch this year and I believe they'll bounce back.

:darkclouds:

BadBobbyJenks
08-09-2010, 11:04 PM
A superstar wouldn't come here because Dewayne Wise got booed? That is rich.

Frater Perdurabo
08-09-2010, 11:04 PM
It's a fair point to say Viciedo should not be playing 3B. I actually agree.

But the Kotsay talk tonight is a little odd to me. Maybe Kotsay didn't do a good enough job of cheering from the bench.

Kotsay is one of the few to swing the bat decent on this trip. The Sox don't win the Thursday game in Detroit without him. I don't want him as the DH either, but blaming him for tonight or any other game on this trip is misplaced anger, IMO.

In tonight's game, Thome would have been a formidable presence on the Sox bench and might have been able to pinch hit, and/or caused Showalter to manage his pen differently. (To be fair, Kotsay historically has been a good pinch hitter.)

Yes, Kotsay had a couple of nice games on this trip. If you'll recall, Brian Anderson also had a few nice games at the plate, even during his awful seasons. Should we have kept him because he found a few acorns every so often?
:tongue:

In all seriousness, Thome's presence on this team doesn't necessarily mean Kotsay would have to be gone (again, he has value as a pinch-hitter and backup 1B); Jones might not have been signed. Or maybe the bullpen would have gone without Williams/Threets/Sale. Or maybe Viciedo might not be here right now. Or maybe they don't trade for Teahen, and instead package Fields/Getz for a more useful reliever.

GoGoCrede
08-09-2010, 11:04 PM
Wow, 10 pages already? Yikes.

BringHomeDaBacon
08-09-2010, 11:05 PM
We've got our sixth place hitter sacrifice bunting in the middle innings and then one of the league's hottest hitters in Alexei bunting with the ML leader in steals on first.

ENOUGH WITH THE BUNTING!!!

IT HASN'T PRODUCED ****!!!!

Domeshot17
08-09-2010, 11:06 PM
You sound like a Cubs fan who hates Ozzie.

I am not saying I agree with it, but everytime a poll is done of MLB players, Ozzie is voted the manager they least want to play for. Like it or not he is not viewed highly by a lot of players.

PeteWard
08-09-2010, 11:06 PM
Pete:

Easier said than done...we'll see.

Nelfox:

You asked "why do so many guys not want to come here..."

It's an interesting question. Let me tell you a story. When I was in Chicago recently I watched three games from up in the radio-TV booth area. I sat with a few members of the Sox front office, former players and some media people.

I honestly don't remember how it came up, I think it was in reference to the Berkman deal where he refused to come to Chicago.

One of the folks I was with had an interesting thought on this area.

They said (and I'm paraphrasing) the Sox fans are too hard on players, that the reputation of the fans is getting around the major leagues and that guys are starting to basically say they don't need it. They pointed to DeWayne Wise getting booed on opening day last year as an example and said that incident was "****ing ridiculous" (direct quote).

I mentioned in reply that they could be right and it's becoming an issue but I also said if that is the case, than some of these guys need to grow some stones or find another profession. I also said that if those guys think it's bad with the Sox, try New York, Philadelphia or Cub fans. I also said that a lot of fans may not be booing the player directly like Wise, but that they are booing him by proxy since they can't get a chance to confront Kenny or Ozzie over the fact that a lifetime .220 hitter is the starting center fielder and leadoff man for a team that's supposed to be a "contender."

The person I was speaking with didn't buy that argument.

It was an interesting dynamic up in the booth for a few minutes.

Lip

I don't buy it. With all the stars that sign in NY or Phillly whose fans boo their own at the slightest of mistakes?

Anyway, how many great signings have the Twins made, for example? Is that because no one wants to play there or is it because of money?

JB98
08-09-2010, 11:06 PM
In tonight's game, Thome would have been a formidable presence on the Sox bench and might have been able to pinch hit, and/or caused Showalter to manage his pen differently. (To be fair, Kotsay historically has been a good pinch hitter.)

Yes, Kotsay had a couple of nice games on this trip. If you'll recall, Brian Anderson also had a few nice games at the plate, even during his awful seasons. Should we have kept him because he found a few acorns every so often?
:tongue:

In all seriousness, Thome's presence on this team doesn't necessarily mean Kotsay would have to be gone (again, he has value as a pinch-hitter and backup 1B); Jones might not have been signed. Or maybe the bullpen would have gone without Williams/Threets/Sale. Or maybe Viciedo might not be here right now. Or maybe they don't trade for Teahen, and instead package Fields/Getz for a more useful reliever.

Where would you have dropped him in? With Beckham being injured, they couldn't have hit for Lillibridge in the ninth even if they had wanted to.

Lip Man 1
08-09-2010, 11:06 PM
Pete:

The last time Pavano pitched against the Sox in Minnesota I was told some of the Sox players suspected something fishy was going on with the baseball's. Appaprently a few guys said in the clubhouse afterwards that his breaking ball had a "strange" (dirtect quote) spin to them.

The Sox weren't going to make a stink at that point in time but its something to keep an eye out for if they face him in the final few weeks. You may start seeing hitters ask the umpire to start checking baseballs.

Lip

Nelfox02
08-09-2010, 11:07 PM
I keep wanting to say "bump in the road" whatever, and go get em tomorrow bull****

but then I think, what is really going to be better tomorrow?

pitching? Cant expect pitching to get much better than we saw the last few games starting and pen

Defense? yeah, maybe, but Dayan will NEVER be better, putting Quentin in right is a downgrade compared to Jones.......

Hitting? will it really be that much better? AJ, Kotsay, Jones, TCQ......will coming home make them all that much better? the at bats just terrible, and that goes for Dayan too except for that one liner to Pie


Konerko was walked what, twice today? that will continue as long as Quentin has at bats like this.........

watching Dayan and Jones flail aimlessly at bad pitches.....it wasnt even fair.......so awful.....

If anyone would have told me that each Oriole starter in this series would go at least six innings and give up 1 run per game.....I would have bet any amount of money you can imagine on that not happening.....no way, not even this sox offense is that awful

wow

sox1970
08-09-2010, 11:07 PM
Dark clouds in their glory tonight. It was the first really bad series in two months. If this thread doesn't show how spoiled we were, I don't know what does. There is a reason these are the Dog Days of Summer. This is the American League and if you don't play your best every night, even a bad team in our league can take you out. We know this team has offensive problems but the pitching is still there and I say pitching will decide this division. To say the season is over and that this series marks the beginning of the end is laughable and you will look foolish if the Sox have a 4W-2L homestand. We have won 20 of our last 22 games at home and people are acting like we have little to no chance tomorrow. The Sox have been a resilient bunch this year and I believe they'll bounce back.

Yeah, I agree. June 9-August 9, the Sox are 9.5 games better than the Twins. From where they were, they should be happy they're playing meaningful baseball games the rest of the way. And if they can't flush what happened in Baltimore, and be ready for the Twins, they probably aren't the better team anyway.

Foulke You
08-09-2010, 11:08 PM
55 guests.

Hi Twins fans!
I'm sure it is 50/50 split between Twins and Cubs fans. My two favorite fanbases. Welcome to WSI.

russ99
08-09-2010, 11:09 PM
In tonight's game, Thome would have been a formidable presence on the Sox bench and might have been able to pinch hit, and/or caused Showalter to manage his pen differently. (To be fair, Kotsay historically has been a good pinch hitter.)

Yes, Kotsay had a couple of nice games on this trip. If you'll recall, Brian Anderson also had a few nice games at the plate, even during his awful seasons. Should we have kept him because he found a few acorns every so often?
:tongue:

In all seriousness, Thome's presence on this team doesn't necessarily mean Kotsay would have to be gone (again, he has value as a pinch-hitter and backup 1B); Jones might not have been signed. Or maybe the bullpen would have gone without Williams/Threets/Sale. Or maybe Viciedo might not be here right now. Or maybe they don't trade for Teahen, and instead package Fields/Getz for a more useful reliever.

Really? Do we need to bring up Thome every time guys can't drive in runs and also whenever Kotsay plays?

Jim Thome would have struck out and grounded into double plays in those situations just like he did last year, and yes, hit the occasional homer. The reason he's been successful this year is that he's strictly used part time, and I doubt he would have been here, no matter what Ozzie or Kenny would have said.

Enough with Baltimore, hopefully the bats wake up for the Twins series.

LoveYourSuit
08-09-2010, 11:09 PM
Dark clouds in their glory tonight. It was the first really bad series in two months. If this thread doesn't show how spoiled we were, I don't know what does. There is a reason these are the Dog Days of Summer. This is the American League and if you don't play your best every night, even a bad team in our league can take you out. We know this team has offensive problems but the pitching is still there and I say pitching will decide this division. To say the season is over and that this series marks the beginning of the end is laughable and you will look foolish if the Sox have a 4W-2L homestand. We have won 20 of our last 22 games at home and people are acting like we have little to no chance tomorrow. The Sox have been a resilient bunch this year and I believe they'll bounce back.




Bold point #1:

This is not the first bad series in two months. The Twins series after the AS break was a complete steaming pile of garbage. The series up in Oakland was awful too.

Bold point #2:

It's a myth. I don't believe in this the same way I don't believe in the Baggy Dome being the reason we sucked in Minn. Everyone plays in the "Dog Days of Summer,"

PeteWard
08-09-2010, 11:09 PM
Pete:

The last time Pavano pitched against the Sox in Minnesota I was told some of the Sox players suspected something fishy was going on with the baseball's. Appaprently a few guys said in the clubhouse afterwards that his breaking ball had a "strange" (dirtect quote) spin to them.

The Sox weren't going to make a stink at that point in time but its something to keep an eye out for if they face him in the final few weeks. You may start seeing hitters ask the umpire to start checking baseballs.

Lip

I did not know that. I just think he is a so so pitcher who is pitching out of his mind right now and I think it will catch up to him. But if he is greasing, it would be great if he were caught.

asindc
08-09-2010, 11:10 PM
lose 3 of 4 to the Orioles? pathetic.

I was so certain I would see a post like this that I researched the following before I logged on. Took only three posts in classic WSI style:

Friday, Apr 30 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-04-30) BOS @ BAL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BAL/2010.shtml) L 4 5 10 11-12 4 6.0
Saturday, May 1 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-05-01) BOS @ BAL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BAL/2010.shtml) L 9 12
Sunday, May 2 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-05-02) BOS @ BAL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BAL/2010.shtml) L 2 3 10 11-14 4 7.0

Thursday, May 27 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-05-27) BOS KCR (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/KCR/2010.shtml) L 3 4
Friday, May 28 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-05-28) BOS KCR (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/KCR/2010.shtml) L 5 12
Saturday, May 29 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-05-29) BOS KCR (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/KCR/2010.shtml) W 1 0



Tuesday, Jun 1 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-06-01) MIN @ SEA (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/SEA/2010.shtml) L 1 7
Wednesday, Jun 2 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-06-02) MIN @ SEA (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/SEA/2010.shtml) L 1 2
Thursday, Jun 3 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-06-03) MIN @ SEA (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/SEA/2010.shtml) L 1 4

Tuesday, Jun 22 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-06-22) MIN @ MIL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/MIL/2010.shtml) L 5 7
Wednesday, Jun 23 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-06-23) MIN @ MIL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/MIL/2010.shtml) L 3 5
Thursday, Jun 24 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-06-24) MIN @ MIL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/MIL/2010.shtml) L 0 5

Monday, Jul 19 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-07-19) MIN CLE (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2010.shtml) L 4 10
Tuesday, Jul 20 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-07-20) MIN CLE (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2010.shtml) L 3 4
Wednesday, Jul 21 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-07-21) MIN CLE (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2010.shtml) W 6 0



Friday, May 21 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-05-21) TEX CHC (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHC/2010.shtml) W 2 1
Saturday, May 22 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-05-22) TEX CHC (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHC/2010.shtml) L 4 5 1
Sunday, May 23 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-05-23) TEX CHC (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHC/2010.shtml) L 4 5

Thursday, Jul 8 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-07-08) TEX BAL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BAL/2010.shtml) L 4 6
Friday, Jul 9 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-07-09) TEX BAL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BAL/2010.shtml) L 6 7
Saturday, Jul 10 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-07-10) TEX BAL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BAL/2010.shtml) L 1 6
Sunday, Jul 11 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-07-11) TEX BAL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BAL/2010.shtml) L 1 4


Take note of the first and last series listed, the second of which took place in Texas. Let's have some perspective folks. Or is that too offensive an idea to consider at the moment?

Nelfox02
08-09-2010, 11:11 PM
We've got our sixth place hitter sacrifice bunting in the middle innings and then one of the league's hottest hitters in Alexei bunting with the ML leader in steals on first.

ENOUGH WITH THE BUNTING!!!

IT HASN'T PRODUCED ****!!!!


Its a joke to have a six hitter in an AL line up bunting yes, but when that 6 hitter is 2010 AJ, then it somewhat makes sense. Chances of him getting a hit were so remote, and he is actually a decent bunter, and he was successful

bunting with TCM for Pierre, didnt like when they did it, dont like an hour later......TCM is one of the few guys hitting consistently for the last few weeks, plus you got a guy who can steal out there, plus the offense overall has been on severe **** run for 4 days........no interest in giving up an out right there

PeteWard
08-09-2010, 11:11 PM
I keep wanting to say "bump in the road" whatever, and go get em tomorrow bull****

but then I think, what is really going to be better tomorrow?

pitching? Cant expect pitching to get much better than we saw the last few games starting and pen

Defense? yeah, maybe, but Dayan will NEVER be better, putting Quentin in right is a downgrade compared to Jones.......

Hitting? will it really be that much better? AJ, Kotsay, Jones, TCQ......will coming home make them all that much better? the at bats just terrible, and that goes for Dayan too except for that one liner to Pie


Konerko was walked what, twice today? that will continue as long as Quentin has at bats like this.........

watching Dayan and Jones flail aimlessly at bad pitches.....it wasnt even fair.......so awful.....

If anyone would have told me that each Oriole starter in this series would go at least six innings and give up 1 run per game.....I would have bet any amount of money you can imagine on that not happening.....no way, not even this sox offense is that awful

wow

Quentin, AJ, Viciedo will all be better this week. Count on it.:bandance:

Frater Perdurabo
08-09-2010, 11:13 PM
You know it's weird about that ALDS because I never thought about how they'd set up their rotation that year, but I think they might have done better had they had anyone but Big Game Javy pitch game one. But I think the Rays were a vastly better team than us in '08 and as I recall we played them tough in all of those games.

Imagine if Crede's back didn't fail (although Uribe did a credible job at 3B), Contreras didn't get hurt and Quentin didn't punch his bat, and thus the Sox win the division by five games and get to set up their rotation against the Rays. Then, with Crede+Contreras+Quentin and a rested rotation, I think the Sox beat the Rays, beat the Red Sox, and then at least would be favored against the Phillies.

Foulke You
08-09-2010, 11:13 PM
Yeah, I agree. June 9-August 9, the Sox are 9.5 games better than the Twins. From where they were, they should be happy they're playing meaningful baseball games the rest of the way. And if they can't flush what happened in Baltimore, and be ready for the Twins, they probably aren't the better team anyway.
They always say "play .500 on the road and take care of business at home". Well, lately the Sox have been slightly above .500 on the road and ridiculously good at home. If we maintain that pattern, things should be ok. The big difference is that we seem to hit so much better at home while on the road we really grind it out to score runs and lean heavily on our pitching for wins.

Brian26
08-09-2010, 11:14 PM
They said (and I'm paraphrasing) the Sox fans are too hard on players, that the reputation of the fans is getting around the major leagues and that guys are starting to basically say they don't need it. They pointed to DeWayne Wise getting booed on opening day last year as an example and said that incident was "****ing ridiculous" (direct quote).

This doesn't really make sense on a lot of different levels.

The Wise incident was an isolated situation. I've been to a lot of games this decade and can't remember a Sox player booed like that, unless perhaps you count the Paniagua incident.

How would the Wise opening day situation "get around the league"? And how is that worse than what happens in Phily, NY or Boston?

Why would players care about fans booing them if they were coming here to make a lot of money and produce? We're talking about free agents or high-profile players who would have to waive their no-trade clause, so the same issues probably wouldn't be at play as happened with Wise, a fringe player.

Foulke You
08-09-2010, 11:14 PM
I was so certain I would see a post like this that I researched the following before I logged on. Took only three posts in classic WSI style:

Friday, Apr 30 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-04-30) BOS @ BAL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BAL/2010.shtml) L 4 5 10 11-12 4 6.0
Saturday, May 1 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-05-01) BOS @ BAL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BAL/2010.shtml) L 9 12
Sunday, May 2 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-05-02) BOS @ BAL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BAL/2010.shtml) L 2 3 10 11-14 4 7.0

Thursday, May 27 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-05-27) BOS KCR (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/KCR/2010.shtml) L 3 4
Friday, May 28 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-05-28) BOS KCR (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/KCR/2010.shtml) L 5 12
Saturday, May 29 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-05-29) BOS KCR (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/KCR/2010.shtml) W 1 0



Tuesday, Jun 1 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-06-01) MIN @ SEA (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/SEA/2010.shtml) L 1 7
Wednesday, Jun 2 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-06-02) MIN @ SEA (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/SEA/2010.shtml) L 1 2
Thursday, Jun 3 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-06-03) MIN @ SEA (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/SEA/2010.shtml) L 1 4

Tuesday, Jun 22 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-06-22) MIN @ MIL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/MIL/2010.shtml) L 5 7
Wednesday, Jun 23 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-06-23) MIN @ MIL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/MIL/2010.shtml) L 3 5
Thursday, Jun 24 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-06-24) MIN @ MIL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/MIL/2010.shtml) L 0 5

Monday, Jul 19 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-07-19) MIN CLE (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2010.shtml) L 4 10
Tuesday, Jul 20 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-07-20) MIN CLE (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2010.shtml) L 3 4
Wednesday, Jul 21 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-07-21) MIN CLE (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2010.shtml) W 6 0



Friday, May 21 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-05-21) TEX CHC (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHC/2010.shtml) W 2 1
Saturday, May 22 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-05-22) TEX CHC (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHC/2010.shtml) L 4 5 1
Sunday, May 23 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-05-23) TEX CHC (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHC/2010.shtml) L 4 5

Thursday, Jul 8 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-07-08) TEX BAL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BAL/2010.shtml) L 4 6
Friday, Jul 9 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-07-09) TEX BAL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BAL/2010.shtml) L 6 7
Saturday, Jul 10 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-07-10) TEX BAL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BAL/2010.shtml) L 1 6
Sunday, Jul 11 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-07-11) TEX BAL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BAL/2010.shtml) L 1 4


Take note of the first and last series listed, the second of which took place in Texas. Let's have some perspective folks. Or is that too offensive an idea to consider at the moment?
Excellent post.

VMSNS
08-09-2010, 11:15 PM
Why do people insist on bringing up that managers poll? Yes, Ozzie finished towards the bottom (2nd to last?), but so did great managers like Torre and LaRussa. That poll means absolutely nothing, in my mind.

Matsui didn't want to come here because he wanted to play on the west coast and in hot weather. Damon wanted the money. Berkman wanted to be reunited with Pettite.

Does Ozzie probably rub some players the wrong way? Sure. But to say that players don't want to come here because of some Ozzie conspiracy is just silly, IMO. Also, I don't buy the whole "Sox are hard on their fans" angle. Every fan base gets mad at their players, it's the nature of sports. I seriously don't believe that Sox fans are any worse than other teams fans, especially when you throw teams like the Cubs, Red Sox, Yankees, and Phillies into the mix.

PeteWard
08-09-2010, 11:16 PM
I was so certain I would see a post like this that I researched the following before I logged on. Took only three posts in classic WSI style:

Friday, Apr 30 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-04-30) BOS @ BAL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BAL/2010.shtml) L 4 5 10 11-12 4 6.0
Saturday, May 1 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-05-01) BOS @ BAL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BAL/2010.shtml) L 9 12
Sunday, May 2 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-05-02) BOS @ BAL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BAL/2010.shtml) L 2 3 10 11-14 4 7.0

Thursday, May 27 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-05-27) BOS KCR (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/KCR/2010.shtml) L 3 4
Friday, May 28 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-05-28) BOS KCR (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/KCR/2010.shtml) L 5 12
Saturday, May 29 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-05-29) BOS KCR (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/KCR/2010.shtml) W 1 0



Tuesday, Jun 1 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-06-01) MIN @ SEA (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/SEA/2010.shtml) L 1 7
Wednesday, Jun 2 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-06-02) MIN @ SEA (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/SEA/2010.shtml) L 1 2
Thursday, Jun 3 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-06-03) MIN @ SEA (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/SEA/2010.shtml) L 1 4

Tuesday, Jun 22 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-06-22) MIN @ MIL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/MIL/2010.shtml) L 5 7
Wednesday, Jun 23 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-06-23) MIN @ MIL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/MIL/2010.shtml) L 3 5
Thursday, Jun 24 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-06-24) MIN @ MIL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/MIL/2010.shtml) L 0 5

Monday, Jul 19 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-07-19) MIN CLE (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2010.shtml) L 4 10
Tuesday, Jul 20 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-07-20) MIN CLE (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2010.shtml) L 3 4
Wednesday, Jul 21 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-07-21) MIN CLE (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2010.shtml) W 6 0



Friday, May 21 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-05-21) TEX CHC (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHC/2010.shtml) W 2 1
Saturday, May 22 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-05-22) TEX CHC (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHC/2010.shtml) L 4 5 1
Sunday, May 23 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-05-23) TEX CHC (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHC/2010.shtml) L 4 5

Thursday, Jul 8 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-07-08) TEX BAL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BAL/2010.shtml) L 4 6
Friday, Jul 9 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-07-09) TEX BAL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BAL/2010.shtml) L 6 7
Saturday, Jul 10 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-07-10) TEX BAL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BAL/2010.shtml) L 1 6
Sunday, Jul 11 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2010-07-11) TEX BAL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BAL/2010.shtml) L 1 4


Take note of the first and last series listed, the second of which took place in Texas. Let's have some perspective folks. Or is that too offensive an idea to consider at the moment?

Here, here! Now if the Os beat us in Chi later this month we can worry. Your point is taken: good teams lose a few series per year to ****ty teams.

Dick Allen
08-09-2010, 11:18 PM
Not counting extra innings, the Orioles scored 9 runs in 4 games - and won 3 of 4.:angry:

PeteWard
08-09-2010, 11:20 PM
Not counting extra innings, the Orioles scored 9 runs in 4 games - and won 3 of 4.:angry:

I need to get out of here. The repetition of the obvious is bringing me down.

Kill the Twinks!

asindc
08-09-2010, 11:20 PM
This doesn't really make sense on a lot of different levels.

The Wise incident was an isolated situation. I've been to a lot of games this decade and can't remember a Sox player booed like that, unless perhaps you count the Paniagua incident.

How would the Wise opening day situation "get around the league"? And how is that worse than what happens in Phily, NY or Boston?

Why would players care about fans booing them if they were coming here to make a lot of money and produce? We're talking about free agents or high-profile players who would have to waive their no-trade clause, so the same issues probably wouldn't be at play as happened with Wise, a fringe player.

I'm not aware of those fans booing their own player on OPENING DAY. It was shameful.

Foulke You
08-09-2010, 11:24 PM
Bold point #1:

This is not the first bad series in two months. The Twins series after the AS break was a complete steaming pile of garbage. The series up in Oakland was awful too.

Bold point #2:

It's a myth. I don't believe in this the same way I don't believe in the Baggy Dome being the reason we sucked in Minn. Everyone plays in the "Dog Days of Summer,"
The Twins series was against a good team and we were a Jenks save away from a split. We played some good baseball there with the exception of the error game and came up short. The Oakland series was sub-par but that is a solid team they have there, especially in the Coliseum. They aren't 30+ under .500 like Baltimore. In my mind, this was the first truly garbage series the Sox have played since their turnaround in early June.

As far as the Dog Days thing, I do believe it has an effect. Make no mistake that these games are tougher. It is blazing hot outside, teams are tired, injuries/fatigue start to set in, managers fret at pitch counts, and saving bullpens for the stretch run. Whether you believe in the intangibles or not, these things are reality when you play in August. As far as the Metrodome thing, I don't see how that has anything to do with my post.

Nelfox02
08-09-2010, 11:24 PM
Not counting extra innings, the Orioles scored 9 runs in 4 games - and won 3 of 4.:angry:


that is yet another reason this series is just so hard to swallow---every game out pitching gave us chances to win.......time and time again.......most innings we did jack ****, and the few innings we had something going we failed for the most part offensively.......toss in some defensive and base running blunders and that gives you the rare 4 game series with 4 good starts (3 of the VERY good) and a 1-3 result

yeah, good teams lose to bad ones every year, but that factoid does not make these games any easier to swallow

flat out blows..........

Lip Man 1
08-09-2010, 11:26 PM
Brian:

As I said in the post, I told the individual making the statement that I didn't agree with it and explained why I felt that way. But they strongly felt (I judged that by the tone of their voice) that what they were saying they thought was absolutely true.

Lip

Foulke You
08-09-2010, 11:27 PM
I'm not aware of those fans booing their own player on OPENING DAY. It was shameful.
Phillies fans have thrown batteries at their own players for stinking. Yankees fans booed A-Rod through an entire playoff series because he wasn't hitting. Cubs fans sent racial hate mail and threatening letters to Latroy Hawkins for blowing saves. All fanbases have their ugly moments. I don't think Wise getting booed is as bad as some of the things I mentioned.

Dibbs
08-09-2010, 11:27 PM
I mentioned in reply that they could be right and it's becoming an issue but I also said if that is the case, than some of these guys need to grow some stones or find another profession. I also said that if those guys think it's bad with the Sox, try New York, Philadelphia or Cub fans. I also said that a lot of fans may not be booing the player directly like Wise, but that they are booing him by proxy since they can't get a chance to confront Kenny or Ozzie over the fact that a lifetime .220 hitter is the starting center fielder and leadoff man for a team that's supposed to be a "contender."

The person I was speaking with didn't buy that argument.

It was an interesting dynamic up in the booth for a few minutes.

Lip

A boo for Kotsay or Wise or any other incompetent player is definitely a boo for Ozzie, not the actual player. Whoever you were talking to shouldn't have to buy anything. That is fact.

asindc
08-09-2010, 11:28 PM
We've got our sixth place hitter sacrifice bunting in the middle innings and then one of the league's hottest hitters in Alexei bunting with the ML leader in steals on first.

ENOUGH WITH THE BUNTING!!!

IT HASN'T PRODUCED ****!!!!

That is completely not true.

asindc
08-09-2010, 11:32 PM
Phillies fans have thrown batteries at their own players for stinking. Yankees fans booed A-Rod through an entire playoff series because he wasn't hitting. Cubs fans sent racial hate mail and threatening letters to Latroy Hawkins for blowing saves. All fanbases have their ugly moments. I don't think Wise getting booed is as bad as some of the things I mentioned.

Well, we disagree about that. OPENING DAY. It. Should. NOT. Happen.

Brian26
08-09-2010, 11:37 PM
I'm not aware of those fans booing their own player on OPENING DAY. It was shameful.

Phily fans booed Santa Claus out of the house. I'm sure it's happened before.

tstrike2000
08-09-2010, 11:38 PM
Garbage series, but now lets sweep the losers from the great white north.

FoulTerritory
08-09-2010, 11:44 PM
This team has played great baseball for the past couple months. They were due for a dud. While I understand the frustration of getting beat down by the worst team in baseball, I think its a good idea for us fans to take a step back and relax about what just transpired.

In the big picture, this team is still on the right track and has a pretty good chance of winning this division. Its baseball . . . individual series' that reflect differently than the big picture are not uncommon. We've got a few sticks that are struggling right now, but I think there is a pretty good chance that we they get back on track this week at home and rekindle the momentum.

My only concern with Ozzie is that regardless of lefty/righty, Kotsay finally looks to be heating up, so there is no need to force Andrew Jones into the lineup.

But on the whole, looking at the big picture, I'm pleased with the way things are heading.

balke
08-09-2010, 11:45 PM
They said (and I'm paraphrasing) the Sox fans are too hard on players, that the reputation of the fans is getting around the major leagues and that guys are starting to basically say they don't need it. They pointed to DeWayne Wise getting booed on opening day last year as an example and said that incident was "****ing ridiculous" (direct quote).

I also said that a lot of fans may not be booing the player directly like Wise, but that they are booing him by proxy since they can't get a chance to confront Kenny or Ozzie over the fact that a lifetime .220 hitter is the starting center fielder and leadoff man for a team that's supposed to be a "contender."

The person I was speaking with didn't buy that argument.

It was an interesting dynamic up in the booth for a few minutes.

Lip


That incident was ridiculous. As was "judy" garland chants. As is the undeserved hate of PK. As is the lack of super enthusiasm and gratitude of one of the greatest win streaks in franchise history to save the season. As are the fans who come on here and call Bobby names related to his weight whenever he has a bad outing. As is the constant use of the term "hot garbage" to label players.

When we are jerks we are the worst and when we show love its kinda meh.

The worst I can remember is the Peavy boos in his first home game because he walked some batters.

I will say - at least our fans care and know what we are celebrating and what we are booing. It just sucks some bad apples have to always rain on the parade in just about any situation. Win a World Series and 2 years later the fans in the "what have you done for me lately" attitude.

On a lesser scale - lose a series to the Orioles and "we suck" and "can't hit" and "Kenny knew to get Thome - he would've won all 3 games by himself."

Brian26
08-09-2010, 11:54 PM
As was "judy" garland chants.

That actually happened at the park? I never remember hearing that at all. The only time I've ever seen that term used was here.

FoulTerritory
08-09-2010, 11:55 PM
That incident was ridiculous. As was "judy" garland chants. As is the undeserved hate of PK. As is the lack of super enthusiasm and gratitude of one of the greatest win streaks in franchise history to save the season. As are the fans who come on here and call Bobby names related to his weight whenever he has a bad outing. As is the constant use of the term "hot garbage" to label players.

When we are jerks we are the worst and when we show love its kinda meh.

The worst I can remember is the Peavy boos in his first home game because he walked some batters.

I will say - at least our fans care and know what we are celebrating and what we are booing. It just sucks some bad apples have to always rain on the parade in just about any situation. Win a World Series and 2 years later the fans in the "what have you done for me lately" attitude.

No use dwelling on the minority of fans that participate in underserved booing and slander players with silly insults. There are always going to be vociferous immature fans, no matter what fan base. Best to ignore it, especially if you're a player.

I will even say that I used to teach at a college in Philadelphia, and most of the philly fans I met there (mostly students), were classy fans with good nature passion about their team. Even there I think its the boisterous minority that give a good fanbase a bad reputation.

fram40
08-09-2010, 11:57 PM
Really? Do we need to bring up Thome every time guys can't drive in runs and also whenever Kotsay plays?

Jim Thome would have struck out and grounded into double plays in those situations just like he did last year, and yes, hit the occasional homer. The reason he's been successful this year is that he's strictly used part time, and I doubt he would have been here, no matter what Ozzie or Kenny would have said.



Thanks Russ. I couldn't agree more.

balke
08-09-2010, 11:59 PM
That actually happened at the park? I never remember hearing that at all. The only time I've ever seen that term used was here.


Not the stadium as a whole - but I'd hear fans "Juuuuuudy" if he walked batters or have a bad inning.

StillMissOzzie
08-10-2010, 12:11 AM
I don't give a **** how hot a team is. You blow that many opportunities, you're supposed to lose.
At least we got all of our crappy baseball out of the way before the Twins series.
That should have been in deep pink instead of teal.

What a miserable, pathetic display of at-bat discipline this series was. As someone else mentioned, they scored 10 vs a team with an ERA over 5. And tonight, I can't remember the lest time I saw this much first-pitch flailing, swinging from the heels (Looking at you, Viciedo), and overall poor situational hitting with a man on 3rd and less than 2 outs. YUCCHH! TCQ is the epitome of hot and cold, and right now he is dry ice cold.

I certainly hope a better approach and better results start manana or the Sox are gonna be in the Twinkie rear view mirror.

SMO
:gulp:

Hegewisch
08-10-2010, 12:33 AM
I can't say anything that has not already been said in this thread. Except:

"Alright. Enough Horse **** !!! Go Kick The Twins Ass !!!" :angry:

chisoxfanatic
08-10-2010, 02:06 AM
This road trip looked so promising after the series in Detroit...I can't believe how Baltimore's given them so many fits the past few years.

PeteWard
08-10-2010, 02:17 AM
That actually happened at the park? I never remember hearing that at all. The only time I've ever seen that term used was here.

Never happened. Only in Mariotti columns and this board

Nellie_Fox
08-10-2010, 02:20 AM
We ****ing suck. Mostly you Carlos and Jones.

Orioles > White Sox.

I wish Paulie didn't hit that home run. Getting walked off ****ing sucks.Could you possibly overreact more?

There's more there than the usual "longball droolz!" tripe that's been squealed in this thread.I saw noting remotely like that. I saw a couple of posters who don't want to return to a "homer or nothing" offense, but don't let that stop you. Drastically overstating the other person's position as a debate tool is a certain winner.

PeteWard
08-10-2010, 02:36 AM
Could you possibly overreact more?

I saw noting remotely like that. I saw a couple of posters who don't want to return to a "homer or nothing" offense, but don't let that stop you. Drastically overstating the other person's position as a debate tool is a certain winner.


Geez I hope the Sox win the next three or I will have to stay away for a while. I don't mind realism or a bit of anxiety but this exaggerated negativity is rampant.

kittle42
08-10-2010, 06:17 AM
Geez I hope the Sox win the next three or I will have to stay away for a while. I don't mind realism or a bit of anxiety but this exaggerated negativity is rampant.

That exaggerated negativity has been there from the poster in question all season.

SI1020
08-10-2010, 08:53 AM
Phily fans booed Santa Claus out of the house. I'm sure it's happened before. Actually they pelted him with snowballs. It happened in 1968 and there's a little bit of a story attached to the incident which I won't get into here.

soltrain21
08-10-2010, 08:56 AM
Could you possibly overreact more?

I saw noting remotely like that. I saw a couple of posters who don't want to return to a "homer or nothing" offense, but don't let that stop you. Drastically overstating the other person's position as a debate tool is a certain winner.

It's only going to get worse with the Twins series.

LITTLE NELL
08-10-2010, 09:06 AM
Hate to say it but we need a rain-out tonight. The boys look tired and getting into Chicago in the wee-hours does not help.

Craig Grebeck
08-10-2010, 09:07 AM
I saw noting remotely like that. I saw a couple of posters who don't want to return to a "homer or nothing" offense, but don't let that stop you. Drastically overstating the other person's position as a debate tool is a certain winner.
Calling an offense homer or nothing is stupid, and a drastic oversimplification. It's like any argument against the poor White Sox offense must be countered with "Hey man, want to go back to the homer or nothing offense?"

No. I would hope criticisms of American politics and government wouldn't be rebuffed with "Hey man, want to return to being under the crown?"