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PolishPrince34
08-06-2010, 11:28 AM
Brian Goodwin the 15th round pick from last years draft is projected to be a Top 3 pick in 2012. Keith Law picked him as the #3 rated prospect at Cape League. Goodwin is #1 rated sophmore. Kenny should of went to Reinsdorf to give him a big bonus to avoid going to college. With the lack of money we spend on the international market we should put more money in the draft. Dane Williams is another one we let go last year that is a future 1st round draft pick.

doublem23
08-06-2010, 11:55 AM
This happens to every team. Just about every 1st round pick from college was drafted 3-4 years earlier and chose not to sign. Very few teams, let alone the Sox, can afford to be handing out 4-5 1st-round value contracts to 10th-round and plus draft picks on the off chance one of them might be the real deal. Hell, guys picked in the 1st round are a big enough crapshoot, you want to give a guy picked #523 in the country several million dollars? That's crazy.

Pablo_Honey
08-06-2010, 01:13 PM
Goodwin fell as low as 15th because of his strong college commitment and tough signability as evidenced by the fact he is a Boras client. Not to mention, he was a high school player with not much power so teams stayed away.

PolishPrince34
08-06-2010, 03:45 PM
Other than Joe Borchard, Stevan Upchurch, and Jordan Danks we never go over the MLB slot recommendation. Those 3 signings have been great!!!There is a reason why are farm system has been one of worse for the past decade. Thank God we were able to trade Borchard for Thornton.

Pablo_Honey
08-06-2010, 04:47 PM
Other than Joe Borchard, Stevan Upchurch, and Jordan Danks we never go over the MLB slot recommendation. Those 3 signings have been great!!!There is a reason why are farm system has been one of worse for the past decade. Thank God we were able to trade Borchard for Thornton.
I'm with ya on that note. It's frustrating we constantly draft guys that sign near slot and when we do bust slots, it's for crap players like Upchurch and Danks in lower rounds. It also doesn't help we do a real great job of developing prospects, be it tweaking mechanics or giving time to develop.

Having said that, Goodwin did drop to 15th round. If other teams thought he was worth the money, they would have nabbed him higher. I assume Goodwin never intended to sign unless he got 1st round money so once he went past the 1st round, teams just didn't bother with him. Would've been nice to add him to our farm system but not necessarily a huge loss.

Daver
08-06-2010, 05:34 PM
Other than Joe Borchard, Stevan Upchurch, and Jordan Danks we never go over the MLB slot recommendation. Those 3 signings have been great!!!There is a reason why are farm system has been one of worse for the past decade. Thank God we were able to trade Borchard for Thornton.


The Sox not paying over slot is not the reason the minor league system is in the state it is in, there are plenty of teams that either don't draft guys that are demanding huge money, or draft talent that is easier to sign, yet still have a good minor league system.

PolishPrince34
08-06-2010, 05:59 PM
Look at the change of philosophy around the league. Kansas City, Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay, and Oakland are putting an extra $5-7 million in the draft, international signings, going over the MLB slot recommendations and they have the best farm systems in the game. Boston, Dodgers, Philadelphia, Yankees, Texas have been doing it for years are always producing players in their systems. Then you have teams like the White Sox, Mets, and Houston who obey Selig/slot recommendations and continue to be on the bottom of the farm systems. We need to change are way of spending money. If that means we take $5 million off the roster, I'm all for it because it will save us money in the long run by producing players in your own farm system.

Daver
08-06-2010, 06:37 PM
Look at the change of philosophy around the league. Kansas City, Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay, and Oakland are putting an extra $5-7 million in the draft, international signings, going over the MLB slot recommendations and they have the best farm systems in the game. Boston, Dodgers, Philadelphia, Yankees, Texas have been doing it for years are always producing players in their systems. Then you have teams like the White Sox, Mets, and Houston who obey Selig/slot recommendations and continue to be on the bottom of the farm systems. We need to change are way of spending money. If that means we take $5 million off the roster, I'm all for it because it will save us money in the long run by producing players in your own farm system.

The best farm systems according to whom?

You want to see a farm systems that develops MLB players?

Look north, the Twins do it better than anyone, and they don't give huge signing bonuses to unproven talent.

If you want a change in the spending, don't do it by squandering dollars on maybes, and spend it on scouting and development, for every amateur player the White Sox scout the Twins and Dodgers, among others, scout 5. Armed with that knowledge they draft from a position of strength, not from a position of payroll.

PolishPrince34
08-06-2010, 08:06 PM
According to Baseball America

KMcMahon817
08-08-2010, 06:16 PM
The best farm systems according to whom?

You want to see a farm systems that develops MLB players?

Look north, the Twins do it better than anyone, and they don't give huge signing bonuses to unproven talent.

If you want a change in the spending, don't do it by squandering dollars on maybes, and spend it on scouting and development, for every amateur player the White Sox scout the Twins and Dodgers, among others, scout 5. Armed with that knowledge they draft from a position of strength, not from a position of payroll.

The Twins minor league system isn't quite as strong as it once was. They may have some solid prospects, but their AA team has the worst record in all of pro ball and their AAA team isn't any better than Charlotte.

Craig Grebeck
08-08-2010, 06:29 PM
The Twins minor league system isn't quite as strong as it once was. They may have some solid prospects, but their AA team has the worst record in all of pro ball and their AAA team isn't any better than Charlotte.
Measuring a minor league system by a team's wins and losses is very, very foolish.

KMcMahon817
08-08-2010, 06:39 PM
Measuring a minor league system by a team's wins and losses is very, very foolish.

Ahhh. Of course.

I am aware of that. But records can be telling...especially when one is the worst in all of professional baseball.

The Twins do things right with their minor league system, but it is not what it was a few years ago.

doublem23
08-08-2010, 08:28 PM
Look at the change of philosophy around the league. Kansas City, Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay, and Oakland are putting an extra $5-7 million in the draft, international signings, going over the MLB slot recommendations and they have the best farm systems in the game. Boston, Dodgers, Philadelphia, Yankees, Texas have been doing it for years are always producing players in their systems. Then you have teams like the White Sox, Mets, and Houston who obey Selig/slot recommendations and continue to be on the bottom of the farm systems. We need to change are way of spending money. If that means we take $5 million off the roster, I'm all for it because it will save us money in the long run by producing players in your own farm system.

Kansas City, Pittsburgh, and Oakland... There's some winning philosophies we need to emulate.

SI1020
08-09-2010, 08:53 AM
Kansas City, Pittsburgh, and Oakland... There's some winning philosophies we need to emulate. Just because they are lousy now doesn't mean they will be lousy forever. It will take a few years at least to see if their work on younger players will pay off. One of these years the Sox will suddenly find themselves looking at an extended dry spell due to their poor drafting and developing of young talent.

doublem23
08-09-2010, 09:30 AM
Just because they are lousy now doesn't mean they will be lousy forever. It will take a few years at least to see if their work on younger players will pay off. One of these years the Sox will suddenly find themselves looking at an extended dry spell due to their poor drafting and developing of young talent.

Oakland maybe, but their GM has a philsophy of always playing for the next few years down the road, so unless the best 3 pitchers in the league simultaneously fall in his lap again, I'm not holding my breath.

The Royals and Pirates, for as "great" as their farm system is, only develop a handful of good MLB players. Between the two, over the last few years, we have Zack Greinke (looking like, perhaps, a flash in the pan) and Andrew McCutchen. Wowzers.

voodoochile
08-09-2010, 11:53 AM
Oakland maybe, but their GM has a philsophy of always playing for the next few years down the road, so unless the best 3 pitchers in the league simultaneously fall in his lap again, I'm not holding my breath.

The Royals and Pirates, for as "great" as their farm system is, only develop a handful of good MLB players. Between the two, over the last few years, we have Zack Greinke (looking like, perhaps, a flash in the pan) and Andrew McCutchen. Wowzers.

To use an old analogy. It appears the Sox are fairly bad at getting players from point A to point B but you give them a high grade point B talent and they can get them to point C fairly quickly.

And I again want to add that I have been more and more impressed with the people being called up from AAA to fill a roster spot temporarily. This goes back to last season for me, but this year alone, Threets, Lillibridge, Lucy and even Viciedo have come up and contributed in a need situation. Even Hudson now appears to be giving solid innings to his new major league club. Given that as recently as 2008 a call to the minors due to injury or other need made me want to hang my head, cross my fingers, toes and eyes hoping the kid wouldn't completely crap the bed the last two years have been a breath of fresh air. I don't know what they are doing differently, but man it's working or at least paying dividends in terms of bench players who can fill a need in an emergency. So, IMO something has changed for the better.

WhiteSox5187
08-09-2010, 03:37 PM
Oakland maybe, but their GM has a philsophy of always playing for the next few years down the road, so unless the best 3 pitchers in the league simultaneously fall in his lap again, I'm not holding my breath.

The Royals and Pirates, for as "great" as their farm system is, only develop a handful of good MLB players. Between the two, over the last few years, we have Zack Greinke (looking like, perhaps, a flash in the pan) and Andrew McCutchen. Wowzers.

I am not too sure about KC, but for years Pittsburgh's farm system was always considered to be a joke with the prime example being taken a guy who was considered to be a great hitter (I think it was John Van Benschoten) and turning him into a pitcher. Their new GM (who took over in 2007 or 2008) is supposedly putting more emphasis on their farm system and has taken guys like Pedro Alvarez, so for as down as they have been they are just starting to put an emphasis on their farm system.

As for the Royals right now they are supposed to have the best farm system in all of baseball and going for "Project 2012" where they have a bunch of good young homegrown guys but before even with the likes of Greinke (who I would hardly call a flash in the pan, I think he's a very good pitcher pitching for a very bad team) their farm system was never considered too great. They would have the occasional guy like Johnny Damon and Carlos Beltran (even Angel Berrora was at one point considered a great prospect) but I don't THINK people were ever drooling over their farm system and suggesting that they had the model one.

Just from what I've read of farm systems (and it is admittedly not much, there are people here who know a lot more about it than me) the farm systems that seem to get the most praises are ones like Minnesota, obviously, and then Boston.

PolishPrince34
08-09-2010, 10:10 PM
There philosophy on spending on the draft and international signings have changed the last 2 years. Their positive results will be showing in the next 2/3 years.

doublem23
08-10-2010, 07:42 AM
There philosophy on spending on the draft and international signings have changed the last 2 years. Their positive results will be showing in the next 2/3 years.

Pardon me for not holding my breath.

tm1119
08-10-2010, 11:37 AM
Oakland maybe, but their GM has a philsophy of always playing for the next few years down the road, so unless the best 3 pitchers in the league simultaneously fall in his lap again, I'm not holding my breath.

The Royals and Pirates, for as "great" as their farm system is, only develop a handful of good MLB players. Between the two, over the last few years, we have Zack Greinke (looking like, perhaps, a flash in the pan) and Andrew McCutchen. Wowzers.

Billy Butler, Pedro Alvarez, Aviles, Alex Gordon, Neil Walker and a few big names still left in the minors for each team.

Craig Grebeck
08-10-2010, 12:15 PM
Billy Butler, Pedro Alvarez, Aviles, Alex Gordon, Neil Walker and a few big names still left in the minors for each team.
Billy Butler is the only guy who is a good major league player. Alvarez may get there, but he's not there yet.

Walker...meh. Aviles sucks. I think Gordon's got a good shot to be an above average outfielder, but who knows with him.

There's a lot in the minors, though.

munchman33
08-10-2010, 01:06 PM
The Sox not paying over slot is not the reason the minor league system is in the state it is in, there are plenty of teams that either don't draft guys that are demanding huge money, or draft talent that is easier to sign, yet still have a good minor league system.

Those teams are built on early first round picks though. Perennially decent teams with good farms systems all pay over slot. I can't think of any exceptions to this.

I though drafting Sale was out of character for this club. Maybe it's a first move in the right direction.

DirtySox
08-10-2010, 01:23 PM
Those teams are built on early first round picks though. Perennially decent teams with good farms systems all pay over slot. I can't think of any exceptions to this.

I though drafting Sale was out of character for this club. Maybe it's a first move in the right direction.

It would be a move in the right direction if they sign Grimes and Terry. Looking like Grimes is unlikely though. I loved wasted 5th round picks.