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CaptUSN
08-04-2010, 12:08 PM
in our line-up when Kotsay and Jones are in the line-up.... I realize it is all sound and fury, signifying nothing, but it really is ridiculous. An American League line-up that is about as bad as a NL line-up with a pitcher batting...

chisoxfanatic
08-04-2010, 12:18 PM
in our line-up when Kotsay and Jones are in the line-up.... I realize it is all sound and fury, signifying nothing, but it really is ridiculous. An American League line-up that is about as bad as a NL line-up with a pitcher batting...
Now I think that's going a bit too far, but I don't understand why Ozzie keeps playing Kotsay over Viciedo (Viciedo should be DHing at least--I understand why Omar should start the most at the hot corner)...But, I know this has been discussed adnausium.

beasly213
08-04-2010, 12:20 PM
Oh good. Another Kotsay sucks thread.

Dibbs
08-04-2010, 12:23 PM
I've been told Kotsay has been creaming the ball, and will break out of this little slump any day now.

Baron
08-04-2010, 12:25 PM
Ug......we really needed another thread about Kotsay playing bad?

LoveYourSuit
08-04-2010, 12:28 PM
AJ sucks at hitting a baseball too.

doublem23
08-04-2010, 12:29 PM
AJ sucks at hitting a baseball too.

He plays a defense-first position.

LoveYourSuit
08-04-2010, 12:30 PM
He plays a defense-first position.

One can argue that he's not great at that either.

doublem23
08-04-2010, 12:30 PM
Oh good. Another Kotsay sucks thread.

Ug......we really needed another thread about Kotsay playing bad?

Oh, chill out guys, the OP is a sporadic poster who probably needed to get this off his chest. Surprisingly, some people don't spend multiple hours per day logged in here. :cool:

doublem23
08-04-2010, 12:31 PM
One can argue that he's not great at that either.

:shrug:

As long as the Sox and the pitchers are happy with him, I see no real need to rock the boat mid-season.

beasly213
08-04-2010, 12:39 PM
Oh, chill out guys, the OP is a sporadic poster who probably needed to get this off his chest. Surprisingly, some people don't spend multiple hours per day logged in here. :cool:

AND WHY NOT?! :redneck

spawn
08-04-2010, 12:43 PM
Oh, chill out guys, the OP is a sporadic poster who probably needed to get this off his chest. Surprisingly, some people don't spend multiple hours per day logged in here. :cool:

Those people obviously don't have a life. :wink:

Baron
08-04-2010, 12:43 PM
Oh, chill out guys, the OP is a sporadic poster who probably needed to get this off his chest. Surprisingly, some people don't spend multiple hours per day logged in here. :cool:

I just hope Kotsay isnt in the lineup today....the post game thread will be like the one from yesterday if he is

doublem23
08-04-2010, 12:49 PM
I just hope Kotsay isnt in the lineup today....the post game thread will be like the one from yesterday if he is

Only if they lose.

Rocky Soprano
08-04-2010, 12:49 PM
Oh, chill out guys, the OP is a sporadic poster who probably needed to get this off his chest. Surprisingly, some people don't spend multiple hours per day logged in here. :cool:

There's a log out option? :o:

Baron
08-04-2010, 12:50 PM
Only if they lose.

Someone will find a way to squeeze a Kotsay sucks argument in there :D:

Coops4Aces
08-04-2010, 12:50 PM
Only if they lose.

I doubt it especially if he goes 0-for again.

MisterB
08-04-2010, 12:53 PM
I just hope Kotsay isnt in the lineup today....the post game thread will be like the one from yesterday if he is

Nah, Kotsay will be blamed whether he's in the lineup or not.

Such is the life of the Designated Scapegoat.

LITTLE NELL
08-04-2010, 12:56 PM
I have a gut feeling that Teahen when he comes back will be our full-time DH with the Tank at 3b and Omar as his late inning replacement.
I'm one of the few who like Kotsay but he may be the odd man out.

soxlady8
08-04-2010, 12:58 PM
I am not a fan of Kotsay by any means.
AJ hasn't been tearing the leather off the ball this season too.

I do not have psychic powers to tell Ozzie to let Castro play more and stop playing Kotsay so much.

I have no control over any of this so I am not going to get worked up over stuff I cannot control. I swear Kotsay must have SOMETHING on OZZIE for him to play as much as he does !

I have learned to be thankful for:

Vizquel playing really great this year (what an awesomely good surprise)
Konerko (no injuries , one of the hr leaders in MLB , good defense )
Bacon (finally looks to be out of his slump )
TCQ (no injuries , a good RBI machine )
Sweaty Freddy (never in my right mind did I think he could pitch so well)
Burls (consistently a good pitcher year after year )
TCM ( a good transition to ss )
Thornton ( what a setup man)
the team (being 1.5 games ahead of the Twinks on Aug 3 , when they were once close to 10 games behind )

Dibbs
08-04-2010, 01:00 PM
I'm one of the few who like Kotsay but he may be the odd man out.

Honestly, what's to like?

Pablo_Honey
08-04-2010, 01:04 PM
Honestly, what's to like?
Leadership skills.

DirtySox
08-04-2010, 01:05 PM
Leadership skills.

He also tells a heck of a knock-knock joke.

sachin
08-04-2010, 01:06 PM
Good Lord, quit complaining about Kotsay. You seem like the type of guy who would complain after winning an all-expense paid vacation to Maui in a luxury resort, crying that the soup is only lukewarm.

This team is in first place ... if you don't like it, ask for your money back.

Baron
08-04-2010, 01:07 PM
When Kotsay comes up to the plate and you look at his stats it reminds me of a quote from Major League 2

" Baker steps in he's 0 for... I don't know. Who cares?"

Pablo_Honey
08-04-2010, 01:08 PM
He also tells a heck of a knock-knock joke.
Kotsay: "Knock knock"
Ozzie: "Who's there?"
Kotsay: "Grounder"
Ozzie: "Grounder who?"
Kotsay: "Grounder to second."
Ozzie: (Rolling on the floor laughing)

doublem23
08-04-2010, 01:09 PM
Kotsay: "Knock knock"
Ozzie: "Who's there?"
Kotsay: "Grounder"
Ozzie: "Grounder who?"
Kotsay: "Grounder to second."
Ozzie: (Rolling on the floor laughing)

:rolling:

Coops4Aces
08-04-2010, 01:10 PM
Kotsay: "Knock knock"
Ozzie: "Who's there?"
Kotsay: "Grounder"
Ozzie: "Grounder who?"
Kotsay: "Grounder to second."
Ozzie: (Rolling on the floor laughing)

:rolling::rolling::rolling:

johnnyg83
08-04-2010, 01:13 PM
Another variation of Kotsay:

Kotsay: Knock, Knock.
You: Who's there?

Kotsay: Scrapegoat.
You: Don't you mean scapegoat?

Kotsay: Man, everyone's against me.

eriqjaffe
08-04-2010, 01:13 PM
I'm one of the few who like Kotsay but he may be the odd man out.Well, if there's one thing he's good at, it's being out. :rimshot:

BleacherBandit
08-04-2010, 01:13 PM
Kotsay went 1-8 yesterday!

Dibbs
08-04-2010, 01:35 PM
Kotsay: "Knock knock"
Ozzie: "Who's there?"
Kotsay: "Grounder"
Ozzie: "Grounder who?"
Kotsay: "Grounder to second."
Ozzie: (Rolling on the floor laughing)

Yes, we might be on to something! A Kotsay joke thread may relieve a lot of the frustration that builds up in many of us.

Boondock Saint
08-04-2010, 01:37 PM
Good Lord, quit complaining about Kotsay. You seem like the type of guy who would complain after winning an all-expense paid vacation to Maui in a luxury resort, crying that the soup is only lukewarm.

This team is in first place ... if you don't like it, ask for your money back.

This team being in first place has zero to do with Mark Kotsay in the lineup. For all we know, we could be even further ahead with a competent DH.

Among all DH's, Kotsay is 9th in hits, 11th in doubles, 12th in HR's, 13th in RBIs, 10th in walks, and even worse in batting average. This is the guy who is routinely hitting 3-4-5-6 in our lineup.

We're winning, and we're all happy about it. But that doesn't mean we have to accept the absolutely awful production we're getting from the designated hitter, who bats in the middle of the lineup.

russ99
08-04-2010, 01:45 PM
This team being in first place has zero to do with Mark Kotsay in the lineup. For all we know, we could be even further ahead with a competent DH.

Among all DH's, Kotsay is 9th in hits, 11th in doubles, 12th in HR's, 13th in RBIs, 10th in walks, and even worse in batting average. This is the guy who is routinely hitting 3-4-5-6 in our lineup.

We're winning, and we're all happy about it. But that doesn't mean we have to accept the absolutely awful production we're getting from the designated hitter, who bats in the middle of the lineup.

Every team doesn't have 9 all-stars in the lineup. What are the expectations here? We may be getting poor production from DH, but we're getting decent production from the bench, more so than other teams.

The Twins have their issues with Punto and Harris, along with Morneau and Mauer's health issues. But hey, if they had a better SS/3B or a better backup 1B they'd be so many games ahead of us.

This isn't fantasy baseball.

sachin
08-04-2010, 01:48 PM
This team being in first place has zero to do with Mark Kotsay in the lineup. For all we know, we could be even further ahead with a competent DH.

Among all DH's, Kotsay is 9th in hits, 11th in doubles, 12th in HR's, 13th in RBIs, 10th in walks, and even worse in batting average. This is the guy who is routinely hitting 3-4-5-6 in our lineup.

We're winning, and we're all happy about it. But that doesn't mean we have to accept the absolutely awful production we're getting from the designated hitter, who bats in the middle of the lineup.

Or they could be even further back behind Minnesota. But with their current DH, the White Sox are in first place, so I don't understand why you feel the need to complain. Enjoy it.

Boondock Saint
08-04-2010, 01:53 PM
Every team doesn't have 9 all-stars in the lineup. What are the expectations here? We may be getting poor production from DH, but we're getting decent production from the bench, more so than other teams.

The Twins have their issues with Punto and Harris, along with Morneau and Mauer's health issues. But hey, if they had a better SS/3B or a better backup 1B they'd be so many games ahead of us.

This isn't fantasy baseball.

It's the only position in baseball where nothing matters other than how well you hit the ball, and we have the 2nd worst hitter on our team in that spot. Hell, we would be better off if Ozzie just hid him in the 9 hole, but that would just make too much sense, wouldn't it? The lineup suffers every game when he's in there.

Coops4Aces
08-04-2010, 01:56 PM
Every team doesn't have 9 all-stars in the lineup. What are the expectations here? We may be getting poor production from DH, but we're getting decent production from the bench, more so than other teams.

The Twins have their issues with Punto and Harris, along with Morneau and Mauer's health issues. But hey, if they had a better SS/3B or a better backup 1B they'd be so many games ahead of us.

This isn't fantasy baseball.

Or they could be even further back behind Minnesota. But with their current DH, the White Sox are in first place, so I don't understand why you feel the need to complain. Enjoy it.


Un-****ing-believable.

spawn
08-04-2010, 02:12 PM
Or they could be even further back behind Minnesota. But with their current DH, the White Sox are in first place, so I don't understand why you feel the need to complain. Enjoy it.

:scratch:

Because it's the black hole in the lineup? generally, the 8 or 9 spot in the lineup is the weak spot. The White Sox weak spot happens to resides smack dab in the middle of it. That is unacceptable. With a competent DH, the Sox may be trying to win a pennant instead of just a Division title.

Harry Chappas
08-04-2010, 02:13 PM
Un-****ing-believable.


Kotsay: "Knock, Knock"
Ozzie: "Who's there [in broken English]?"
Kotsay: "The guy with photos of you in drag. Play me."

Hitmen77
08-04-2010, 02:14 PM
AJ sucks at hitting a baseball too.

So? Regardless of whether AJ or Castro plays, it has nothing to do with how DH is being handled in our lineup. You don't play Kotsay every day because "AJ sucks at hitting too".

One of the maddening thing with the DH situation is that we have a couple of hot bats who are benched most games because they can't possibly replace the way that Kotsay lights up right-handed pitching. Either that, or it's just inconceivable to have one of those guys DH because, you know, they're not supposed to DH!

At this point, we're not talking about whether the Sox should/could have acquired another bat last winter or at the deadline. There's nothing we can do about that now. But the thing is that we actually have a possible in-house solution to the Kotsay-everyday problem in Dayan Viciedo. Why not find a way to get him into the lineup every night until he shows that he's not up to that job? Lillibridge has been swinging a hot bat too. But I guess the answer to that question is that "AJ sucks at hitting too."

doublem23
08-04-2010, 02:17 PM
Every team doesn't have 9 all-stars in the lineup. What are the expectations here? We may be getting poor production from DH, but we're getting decent production from the bench, more so than other teams.

The Twins have their issues with Punto and Harris, along with Morneau and Mauer's health issues. But hey, if they had a better SS/3B or a better backup 1B they'd be so many games ahead of us.

This isn't fantasy baseball.

Is it an unrealistic expectation for the DH to, I don't know, hit the ball? Since that's all he has to do?

The Twins may have their issues with Punto, Harris, Mauer, etc. but they also have a smaller payroll and are at least getting defensive value from their guys. Again... We have a DH... Who doesn't hit. Why does that not seem ridiculous to you?

Or they could be even further back behind Minnesota. But with their current DH, the White Sox are in first place, so I don't understand why you feel the need to complain. Enjoy it.

:facepalm:

It is possible to enjoy something while seeing glaring areas that need to be improved. Multitasking FTW!

happydude
08-04-2010, 02:19 PM
I don't feel compelled to complain about Kotsay but I admit some confusion with the mindset that suggests that complaining about him is somehow misplaced at this time because the Sox are in first and/or others have picked up the slack. No one fairly expects the lineup to be loaded with all stars from top to bottom. It is fair to expect that a professional hitter succeeds more than a little over 1/5 of the time; particularly when that's essentially all he's asked to do.

No team, or by extension supporters of that team, should ever be content with giving away outs if the goal is to win it all. A weak link is a weak link no matter how strong the rest of the chain; wanting that to be rectified before it manifests itself in a big loss or several down the road is natural and appropriate.

cws05champ
08-04-2010, 02:21 PM
Or they could be even further back behind Minnesota. But with their current DH, the White Sox are in first place, so I don't understand why you feel the need to complain. Enjoy it.
I think we all (OK, most) are enjoying the Sox being in 1st place in August. The point is, it is entirely possible for the Sox to need every single win in order to win this division. There's always room for improvement, and with Thome platooning at DH instead of Kotsay we would be in a much better position so far. Taking your approach is like flying down an open highway at 100mph with the hood on fire saying..."Don't worry, just enjoy the ride man".

Hitmen77
08-04-2010, 02:27 PM
When Teahen comes back next week, i hope we see this as our regular lineup:
C- AJ/Castro
1B, 2B, SS - Konerko, Gordon, Alexei
3B - Vizquel (Viciedo or Teahen when Omar needs an off day)
LF - Pierre
CF - Rios
RF - Quentin
DH - Teahen/Viciedo

Not exactly the '27 Yankees, but at least I'd feel like we're putting our best lineup possible out there. Perhaps the biggest question mark for me is how healthy Quentin can stay and whether he can get back to hitting like he did before his minor injuries.

If Kotsay is still on the team, use him off the bench or as a sub at 1B when Paulie needs a rest. Jones (if still on the team) is awful at the plate, but he's at least still a great OF and is a power threat and, unfortunately, we need a defensive backup to Quentin in RF.

Slappy
08-04-2010, 02:29 PM
It's the only position in baseball where nothing matters other than how well you hit the ball, and we have the 2nd worst hitter on our team in that spot. Hell, we would be better off if Ozzie just hid him in the 9 hole, but that would just make too much sense, wouldn't it? The lineup suffers every game when he's in there.

Yeah, but without Kotsay's leadership, we'd be keeping the Royals and Indians company.

It's scary to think how good we'd be with a real hitter as a DH.

Iwritecode
08-04-2010, 02:30 PM
Taking your approach is like flying down an open highway at 100mph with the hood on fire saying..."Don't worry, just enjoy the ride man".

Actually, I think it's more like flying down the road with all the windows down when you'd get better gas mileage with them up and the vents blowing instead.

Not a huge problem but certainly a fixable one.

russ99
08-04-2010, 02:35 PM
I think we all (OK, most) are enjoying the Sox being in 1st place in August. The point is, it is entirely possible for the Sox to need every single win in order to win this division. There's always room for improvement, and with Thome platooning at DH instead of Kotsay we would be in a much better position so far. Taking your approach is like flying down an open highway at 100mph with the hood on fire saying..."Don't worry, just enjoy the ride man".

Confirms my assumption - a lot of this is about sour grapes for how the Sox and especially Ozzie handled the Thome situation.

What's done is done. I'm as annoyed as the rest of you that Kenny didn't add a bat at the deadline, but am happy to move on with our current team that doesn't let a few players hitting poorly keep them from playing .680 baseball the last 2 months.

So are you saying with Thome, we'd play .750 baseball instead? :rolleyes:

Coops4Aces
08-04-2010, 02:36 PM
Actually, I think it's more like flying down the road with all the windows down when you'd get better gas mileage with them up and the vents blowing instead.

Not a huge problem but certainly a fixable one.

How about driving down the highway and the engine light comes on? The car is driving fine but something is definitely wrong and the car might breakdown before you reach were you want to go.

kufram
08-04-2010, 02:37 PM
Actually, I think it's more like flying down the road with all the windows down when you'd get better gas mileage with them up and the vents blowing instead.

Not a huge problem but certainly a fixable one.


A rational description of the Kotsay "problem". Where'd THAT come from??

Coops4Aces
08-04-2010, 02:38 PM
Confirms my assumption - a lot of this is about sour grapes for how the Sox and especially Ozzie handled the Thome situation.

What's done is done. I'm as annoyed as the rest of you that Kenny didn't add a bat at the deadline, but am happy to move on with our current team that doesn't let a few players hitting poorly keep them from playing .680 baseball the last 2 months.

So are you saying with Thome, we'd play .750 baseball instead? :rolleyes:

Stop putting words in people's mouths! Kotsay is a joke and for most of us, it has nothing to do with Jim ****ing Thome.

hi im skot
08-04-2010, 02:39 PM
Kotsay: "Knock, Knock"
Ozzie: "Who's there [in broken English]?"
Kotsay: "The guy with photos of you in drag. Play me."

Big hat, no cattle.

Slappy
08-04-2010, 02:40 PM
Will it be a huge problem when guys like Konerko and Rios and Alexei cool off and we're struggling to score runs, all while losing (close) games?

Or will it continue to be a small fixable problem, that remains unfixed for the foreseeable future?

doublem23
08-04-2010, 02:42 PM
So are you saying with Thome, we'd play .750 baseball instead? :rolleyes:

Maybe with Thome we don't play .420 ball the first 2 months of the year.

GoGoCrede
08-04-2010, 02:43 PM
There's a log out option? :o:

:lol: :lol: I had no idea.

FielderJones
08-04-2010, 02:48 PM
Among all DH's, Kotsay is 9th in hits, 11th in doubles, 12th in HR's, 13th in RBIs, 10th in walks, and even worse in batting average. This is the guy who is routinely hitting 3-4-5-6 in our lineup.


You mean he's not 14th in all categories? What are you guys whining about?

Slappy
08-04-2010, 02:54 PM
Somebody's gotta be last. :dunno:

Just a little unlucky is all. He's hitting those balls right at people.

Coops4Aces
08-04-2010, 02:57 PM
Somebody's gotta be last. :dunno:

Just a little unlucky is all. He's hitting those balls right at people.

The best sarcasm doesn't need teal. I love it.

SCCWS
08-04-2010, 02:58 PM
in our line-up when Kotsay and Jones are in the line-up.... I realize it is all sound and fury, signifying nothing, but it really is ridiculous. An American League line-up that is about as bad as a NL line-up with a pitcher batting...

Jones is probably not hitting his weight. But he has more RBIs than Beckham or AJ w considerably less at bats.

kufram
08-04-2010, 03:19 PM
Will it be a huge problem when guys like Konerko and Rios and Alexei cool off and we're struggling to score runs, all while losing (close) games?

Or will it continue to be a small fixable problem, that remains unfixed for the foreseeable future?


You're predicting a losing streak?

Boondock Saint
08-04-2010, 03:34 PM
Confirms my assumption - a lot of this is about sour grapes for how the Sox and especially Ozzie handled the Thome situation.

What's done is done. I'm as annoyed as the rest of you that Kenny didn't add a bat at the deadline, but am happy to move on with our current team that doesn't let a few players hitting poorly keep them from playing .680 baseball the last 2 months.

So are you saying with Thome, we'd play .750 baseball instead? :rolleyes:

This is a load of bull****. Thome gets mentioned one time in this thread, and every ounce of logic is suddenly discredited. We hate Mark Kotsay because he isn't Jim Thome, end of discussion. I would like to have Thome back, but it's not about him. It's about the god-awful "designated hitter" we have to watch play ****ty baseball five days a week. It's not hard to understand that there are several more talented, younger and better options for DH and the 6 hole on the roster right now.

Harry Chappas
08-04-2010, 03:49 PM
Confirms my assumption - a lot of this is about sour grapes for how the Sox and especially Ozzie handled the Thome situation.

What's done is done. I'm as annoyed as the rest of you that Kenny didn't add a bat at the deadline, but am happy to move on with our current team that doesn't let a few players hitting poorly keep them from playing .680 baseball the last 2 months.

So are you saying with Thome, we'd play .750 baseball instead? :rolleyes:

If I didn't know better, I would have thought this was written with tongue planted firmly in cheek.

Not only did I agree with the Sox decision to let Thome go, but I'm not the least bit "annoyed" with KW and the Sox failure to add a bat at the deadline. Sure, it would have been nice, but I'm among the growing number of fans that feel like we can improve the DH spot with one if not two guys currently on the roster. Obviously, I'm referring to Lillibridge and Viciedo.

This has nothing to do with an ax to grind or a dislike of Guillen and everything to do with the fact that two players hitting the cover off the ball are rotting on the bench while a 34-year old with a creaky back and embarrassing numbers plays instead.

Harry Chappas
08-04-2010, 03:50 PM
Big hat, no cattle.

Huh?

kufram
08-04-2010, 04:38 PM
If I didn't know better, I would have thought this was written with tongue planted firmly in cheek.

Not only did I agree with the Sox decision to let Thome go, but I'm not the least bit "annoyed" with KW and the Sox failure to add a bat at the deadline. Sure, it would have been nice, but I'm among the growing number of fans that feel like we can improve the DH spot with one if not two guys currently on the roster. Obviously, I'm referring to Lillibridge and Viciedo.

This has nothing to do with an ax to grind or a dislike of Guillen and everything to do with the fact that two players hitting the cover off the ball are rotting on the bench while a 34-year old with a creaky back and embarrassing numbers plays instead.

I agree with you, except that Viciedo isn't totally rotting on the bench. He isn't getting the playing time and Kotsay is. Lillibridge isn't getting playing time when others are. But both of these guys were in the minors until sort of yesterday, and could bust as quickly as boom. The end game is only a Teahen away and all will be revealed. I hope at that point that Kotsay's back puts him on the DL until roster expansion because he obviously has a value or Ozzie wouldn't keep him. Kotsay was playing throughout one of the greatest turnarounds ever and you bust up a winning combination like that at your peril. Contrary to the rumour... Ozzie is NOT stupid. I'm not saying that YOU think he is but some posters certainly do.

jgstriker
08-04-2010, 07:13 PM
I am pretty sure that Kotsay in our lineup had little to do do with our turnaround. You can thank the starting pitching, vizquel, and the rest of the team's bats for that. Kotsay has been consistent this year.
Consistently terrible.
And yes, viciedo and lillibridge could cool off and we would not have any option at DH, but they ARENT cool at all right now. Both are taggin the ball when they get in the lineup. So if we can have them hot for 2 more weeks and win an extra game or two because of their hits, that could win the division.

CaptUSN
08-04-2010, 07:16 PM
I was so PO'd at the weak outs from Jones and Kotsay in game 2 yesterday that my wife had to tell me to stop yelling at the V. She keeps reminding me that they don't hear me..... Damn it was good to go to sea sometimes....

sachin
08-04-2010, 09:56 PM
This is a load of bull****. Thome gets mentioned one time in this thread, and every ounce of logic is suddenly discredited. We hate Mark Kotsay because he isn't Jim Thome, end of discussion. I would like to have Thome back, but it's not about him. It's about the god-awful "designated hitter" we have to watch play ****ty baseball five days a week. It's not hard to understand that there are several more talented, younger and better options for DH and the 6 hole on the roster right now.


So, therefore they would automatically do a better job then Kotsay? You can say this for certainty, and the team would be better than being first in their division, solely by not having him in there. Okay, my friend, whatever you say...:?:

Hitmen77
08-04-2010, 10:56 PM
Ozzie speaks about Viciedo's role:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ct-spt-0805-bits-white-sox-tigers-chi20100804,0,5403495.story

slavko
08-04-2010, 11:01 PM
I was so PO'd at the weak outs from Jones and Kotsay in game 2 yesterday that my wife had to tell me to stop yelling at the V. She keeps reminding me that they don't hear me..... Damn it was good to go to sea sometimes....

Jones is not the only AJ who can't hit a lick Right About Now.

LoveYourSuit
08-04-2010, 11:20 PM
Ozzie speaks about Viciedo's role:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ct-spt-0805-bits-white-sox-tigers-chi20100804,0,5403495.story


What a pile of **** :angry:

It's simple, you are good, you play.

You suck, you sit.

What's so hard about grasping that concept?

canOcorn
08-04-2010, 11:34 PM
Ozzie speaks about Viciedo's role:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ct-spt-0805-bits-white-sox-tigers-chi20100804,0,5403495.story

He's a stubborn prick. I didn't want anyone to question him about Kotsay because he'll just dig his heels in and play Kotsay to try and prove his point. He's done this time and time again.

Don't rile him up and let Teahen come off the DL and send Kotsay to the DL. Make it happen Kenny :praying:

UofCSoxFan
08-04-2010, 11:50 PM
When Teahen comes back next week, i hope we see this as our regular lineup:
C- AJ/Castro
1B, 2B, SS - Konerko, Gordon, Alexei
3B - Vizquel (Viciedo or Teahen when Omar needs an off day)
LF - Pierre
CF - Rios
RF - Quentin
DH - Teahen/Viciedo

Not exactly the '27 Yankees, but at least I'd feel like we're putting our best lineup possible out there. Perhaps the biggest question mark for me is how healthy Quentin can stay and whether he can get back to hitting like he did before his minor injuries.

If Kotsay is still on the team, use him off the bench or as a sub at 1B when Paulie needs a rest. Jones (if still on the team) is awful at the plate, but he's at least still a great OF and is a power threat and, unfortunately, we need a defensive backup to Quentin in RF.

Agree with everything you said here. I read an article quoting Ozzie sayin how he likes having a lefty in the middle of the order to split up the L-R matchups even if Kotsay is struggling....there is some validity to that (although to a point....Kotsay stiill has to be better). Teahen has always been better than Kotsay hitting, awful start aside, so moving him into the DH role when Viciedo sits will be an upgrade. FWIW, Teahen is 5-10 in his AAA rehab stint so far.

Nellie_Fox
08-05-2010, 12:32 AM
He's a stubborn prick. I didn't want anyone to question him about Kotsay because he'll just dig his heels in and play Kotsay to try and prove his point. He's done this time and time again. Since he's been right more often than he's been wrong by sticking with a guy who's struggling, it is understandable that he continues to do so. People on here were screaming for the heads of TCQ, Ramirez, Beckham, etc. not so very long ago. Release them, send them down, get them out of the lineup. Ozzie stuck with them, and they are now contributing to what has become a very good team. He's stuck with some people who haven't come around, but don't you think he's earned the right to do things his way, even when the Sox are winning? I vastly prefer a guy who's too loyal to one who is constantly hitting the panic button, which is what many of you do daily.

kufram
08-05-2010, 02:52 AM
Since he's been right more often than he's been wrong by sticking with a guy who's struggling, it is understandable that he continues to do so. People on here were screaming for the heads of TCQ, Ramirez, Beckham, etc. not so very long ago. Release them, send them down, get them out of the lineup. Ozzie stuck with them, and they are now contributing to what has become a very good team. He's stuck with some people who haven't come around, but don't you think he's earned the right to do things his way, even when the Sox are winning? I vastly prefer a guy who's too loyal to one who is constantly hitting the panic button, which is what many of you do daily.

This. I'm not defending Kotsay's record per se, just like I couldn't defend the team's performance in April/May. At that time I was saying it was not a good idea to panic, call for heads (you ain't going to get them that time of year anyway), and break the team up. Many here called for exactly that and their plan/rant was usually reactive and changed accroding to who had a bad game that day or that week. Kotsay has provided them ammo for a long time and I wish we had a better LH to put in there and let Kotsay be what he actually is. But I can see the sense in breaking up a right hand dominant middle order. I'm wondering if it is costing us games because we've been the hottest team in baseball for a while now. Roles will be adjusted when Teahen returns. Patience.

At least Ozzie had a plan, has a plan and is sticking to it with what is available. We're in first place, been there for a little while, even though not every cylinder is firing at full capacity. We lost a front line starter and only really broke step a little. Better to appreciate what we do have when we're in a race that cry about what we don't have.

Boondock Saint
08-05-2010, 03:00 AM
So, therefore they would automatically do a better job then Kotsay?You can say this for certainty, and the team would be better than being first in their division, solely by not having him in there. Okay, my friend, whatever you say...:?:

Don't put words in my mouth.

Viciedo, Beckham, Ramirez and Lillibridge are all hitting the ball well right now. They have earned the chance to either play every day or hit in a more important spot in the lineup. Mark Kotsay has been doing poorly all season. He has earned a demotion to the bench, and a spot in the bottom of the order when he does play.

It's Dankerific
08-05-2010, 03:12 AM
He's a stubborn prick. I didn't want anyone to question him about Kotsay because he'll just dig his heels in and play Kotsay to try and prove his point. He's done this time and time again.

Don't rile him up and let Teahen come off the DL and send Kotsay to the DL. Make it happen Kenny :praying:

I wonder why having Kotsay suck in the middle of the lineup is "good for a different reason."

to break up the hits?

russ99
08-05-2010, 06:47 AM
This. I'm not defending Kotsay's record per se, just like I couldn't defend the team's performance in April/May. At that time I was saying it was not a good idea to panic, call for heads (you ain't going to get them that time of year anyway), and break the team up. Many here called for exactly that and their plan/rant was usually reactive and changed accroding to who had a bad game that day or that week. Kotsay has provided them ammo for a long time and I wish we had a better LH to put in there and let Kotsay be what he actually is. But I can see the sense in breaking up a right hand dominant middle order. I'm wondering if it is costing us games because we've been the hottest team in baseball for a while now. Roles will be adjusted when Teahen returns. Patience.

At least Ozzie had a plan, has a plan and is sticking to it with what is available. We're in first place, been there for a little while, even though not every cylinder is firing at full capacity. We lost a front line starter and only really broke step a little. Better to appreciate what we do have when we're in a race that cry about what we don't have.

For me the issue isn't so much getting Kotsay out of the lineup more often (we have Omar who can DH lefthanded and soon Teahen, so there are other options) but the misguided idea that Viciedo can perform after limited at-bats at the same level as the everyday DH.

Remember, Ozzie came into the league as a 21 year old, he knows what he's doing with Dayan from experience. A year and a half ago, Viciedo couldn't hit his way out of a wet paper bag in AA.

I'd rather Viciedo be handled cautiously and given time to break in as a position player and have a long successful career with the Sox, than be rushed into a full-time pressure situation at DH and end up like Borchard or Anderson.

For example, how many of you would have been OK with Dayan's 0-3 2K outing the other day, if he were DH and in the middle of the lineup? Don't assume that putting the kid who's doing well so far into a pressure role will fix everything.

hawkjt
08-05-2010, 06:56 AM
For me the issue isn't so much getting Kotsay out of the lineup more often (we have Omar who can DH lefthanded and soon Teahen, so there are other options) but the misguided idea that Viciedo can perform after limited at-bats at the same level as the everyday DH.

Remember, Ozzie came into the league as a 21 year old, he knows what he's doing with Dayan from experience. A year and a half ago, Viciedo couldn't hit his way out of a wet paper bag in AA.

I'd rather Viciedo be handled cautiously and given time to break in as a position player and have a long successful career with the Sox, than be rushed into a full-time pressure situation at DH and end up like Borchard or Anderson.

For example, how many of you would have been OK with Dayan's 0-3 2K outing the other day, if he were DH and in the middle of the lineup? Don't assume that putting the kid who's doing well so far into a pressure role will fix everything.

Agree. My concern was that Dayan would need a certain number of at bats to have a chance when he did hit, but he has shown that he can get off the bench cold after sitting for 4 days and hammer the crap outta the ball. So,maybe that is the key,not exposing him too much. This is working exceptionally well overall,as the 37-13 record and Dayan's batting average indicate. Now, the third leg of that plan is Kotsay hitting well,and ...not so much,but another factor is resting PK as much as possible.

Mitch Williams said last nite,in this drug-free era, that after 100 games,guys are shot, and now it is who is the healthiest that will survive the marathon. Resting PK might just be important enough to tolerate a bad batting average from Kotsay. I hope Joey is working with Dayan everyday at first,tho.

TheVulture
08-05-2010, 10:30 AM
I'm as annoyed as the rest of you that Kenny didn't add a bat at the deadline.


He didn't need to get a bat for Ozzie to stop playing Kotsay everyday.

Hitmen77
08-05-2010, 08:56 PM
More discussion on Viciedo's role at the bottom of this article. It says Ozzie plans to start him several games in Baltimore.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/2569790,chicago-white-sox-carlos-delgado-05.article

Slappy
08-08-2010, 03:19 PM
Originally Posted by Slappy http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=2581311#post2581311)
Will it be a huge problem when guys like Konerko and Rios and Alexei cool off and we're struggling to score runs, all while losing (close) games?

Or will it continue to be a small fixable problem, that remains unfixed for the foreseeable future?

You're predicting a losing streak?

Just call me Slappstrodamus.

soltrain21
08-08-2010, 03:21 PM
More discussion on Viciedo's role at the bottom of this article. It says Ozzie plans to start him several games in Baltimore.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/2569790,chicago-white-sox-carlos-delgado-05.article

Did he start a single game? My week was a little blurry with the surgery and all. I know he didn't start today.

DirtySox
08-08-2010, 03:23 PM
Did he start a single game? My week was a little blurry with the surgery and all. I know he didn't start today.

Once so far.