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View Full Version : Which Kenny GM was worse?


Viva Magglio
06-24-2002, 11:20 PM
Death is not an option!

DonkeyKongerko
06-24-2002, 11:48 PM
cant say im old enuf to remember many of the hawkeroos GMing days but it cant be much worse than this. GM Kenny Williams inherits division champion, playoff bust. He tweaks and team falters to 83-79 record the next year. Injuries abound he adds the missing piece AKA Todd Ritchie. The wheels come off. The fully healthy team is posting a worse mark than the skeleton crew of 2001. Abandon Ship!!! This babys goin down.......

baggio202
06-25-2002, 12:12 AM
Originally posted by DonkeyKongerko
cant say im old enuf to remember many of the hawkeroos GMing days but it cant be much worse than this. GM Kenny Williams inherits division champion, playoff bust. He tweaks and team falters to 83-79 record the next year. Injuries abound he adds the missing piece AKA Todd Ritchie. The wheels come off. The fully healthy team is posting a worse mark than the skeleton crew of 2001. Abandon Ship!!! This babys goin down.......

mayday!!!! mayday!!! mayday!!!....ship going down approximately 2 miles southeast of downtown minneapolis...

NUKE_CLEVELAND
06-25-2002, 12:18 AM
One let go of Bobby Bonilla & the other brought us THE CHOICE! and his daddy Jerry. NO FRIGGIN CONTEST!

TornLabrum
06-25-2002, 12:24 AM
My favorite quote from Hawk's telecast tonight. "This is the first time we've seen the opening day lineup since May 25. I think that's a good thing." Then they go out and proceed to lose. I think that's a bad thing.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-25-2002, 12:35 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
My favorite quote from Hawk's telecast tonight. "This is the first time we've seen the opening day lineup since May 25. I think that's a good thing." Then they go out and proceed to lose. I think that's a bad thing.

I missed that one. My God, it's worse than even I had imagined.

It's been nearly a MONTH since Manuel field this lineup? That's inexcusable.

MarkEdward
06-25-2002, 12:56 AM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge


I missed that one. My God, it's worse than even I had imagined.

It's been nearly a MONTH since Manuel field this lineup? That's inexcusable.


Hawk and DJ seemed overjoyed, even downright giddy, at tonight's line-up. It's good to have consistency in a line-up, but not when 3 of those starters have OBPs under .300

baggio202
06-25-2002, 01:50 AM
Originally posted by MarkEdward



Hawk and DJ seemed overjoyed, even downright giddy, at tonight's line-up. It's good to have consistency in a line-up, but not when 3 of those starters have OBPs under .300

remember in '00 when we all ragged on singleton because he could barely keep his OBP over 300 and how much better we would be if we didnt have his weak stick in the line up???...boy i miss those days :whiner: ..i need a :gulp: or :gulp: :gulp:

ISUSoxfan
06-25-2002, 02:28 AM
At least Singleton would have a big game at the plate once every week or two and he had range on defense. Clayton is pathetic every day at the plate, and is not all he's supposed to be in the field either. He has low range, a weak arm, and makes routine plays look tough by hotdogging them. He has terrible fielding mechanics. Clayton has actually made a lot more errors than he has been charged with. Jose is a better defensive shortstop because he has range, an arm, and can make a great clutch play when we need it.

Nellie_Fox
06-25-2002, 02:44 AM
Originally posted by ISUSoxfan
At least Singleton would have a big game at the plate once every week or two and he had range on defense. Clayton is pathetic every day at the plate, and is not all he's supposed to be in the field either. He has low range, a weak arm, and makes routine plays look tough by hotdogging them. He has terrible fielding mechanics. Clayton has actually made a lot more errors than he has been charged with. Jose is a better defensive shortstop because he has range, an arm, and can make a great clutch play when we need it. I would love to know on what you base your assertion that Clayton lacks range and Valentin doesn't? I'm serious, is there another obscure stat that you are using to make this determination, or is it just because you say so?

Nellie_Fox
06-25-2002, 03:09 AM
In an attempt to answer my own question, I went to baseball-reference dot com, and educated myself on the "range factor" stat. Both Royce and Valentin have above league average range factors, but Royce has an above league average career fielding percentage, Valentin is always below league average.

ISUSoxfan
06-25-2002, 03:43 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
I would love to know on what you base your assertion that Clayton lacks range and Valentin doesn't? I'm serious, is there another obscure stat that you are using to make this determination, or is it just because you say so?
It's just because I say so. I watch most of the games this year and watched almost every game in 2000. I remember Jose making great plays and getting to balls that most shortstops would have no chance at. Most of his errors were in games we would have lost anyway or in games that we won because his errors came at a time that didn't hurt us bad. We actually won one of the games he made 3 errors in. Jose made up for his errors with great plays in clutch situations, with his leadership in the infield, and with his bat in the line-up. Clayton's errors are made up for by the official scorer calling them hits. Also, every time he fails to properly execute a double-play or a runner beats out his weak arm, no error can be called.

Nellie_Fox
06-25-2002, 03:58 AM
Originally posted by ISUSoxfan
It's just because I say so. I watch most of the games this year and watched almost every game in 2000. I watch all the games I can. I'll be damned if I can tell who has good range and who doesn't from the TV screen.

2000 was a career year for Valentin. His offensive numbers have returned to his career averages, and his defense is a liability. I object to the idea that just because an error doesn't immediately lead to a run or cost the game that it doesn't matter. It changes the pitchers' approach to the game. It makes them throw more pitches than they would have, getting into the bullpen earlier and more often. It could very well manifest itself the next day, because the bullpen is shot.

soxrme
06-25-2002, 10:29 AM
You must be joking. Jose is not a shortstop. Unfortunately he is not a 3rd baseman either. He might have range but he has a erratic arm and blows many routine plays. If he was hitting it would be different. Personally I would rather see him at 2nd instead of that lazy, over rated Durham.
Joe Crede should be at third, does anybody know if there is any reason besides money on why he isn't here?

Paulwny
06-25-2002, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by soxrme

Joe Crede should be at third, does anybody know if there is any reason besides money on why he isn't here?
\
I think he's a distant relative of Sean Lowe.