PDA

View Full Version : Edwin Jackson Part II


Pages : [1] 2

Brian26
07-30-2010, 02:09 PM
...

Pablo_Honey
07-30-2010, 02:09 PM
First?

Just kidding, what are the updates on the rumour front?

kittle42
07-30-2010, 02:10 PM
Oh, sorry, I was looking for the Dennis Rodman thread.

TheOldRoman
07-30-2010, 02:11 PM
I still want to know what a rumpus room is. A finished basement?

kittle42
07-30-2010, 02:11 PM
First?

Just kidding, what are the updates on the rumour front?

Rumors of a movie about the Spice Girls' reunion tour have been nixed.

Slappy
07-30-2010, 02:11 PM
yawn

VeeckAsInWreck
07-30-2010, 02:11 PM
First?

Just kidding, what are the updates on the rumour front?

Kenny Williams has traded his Italian Beef for a dinner to be named later.

thomas35forever
07-30-2010, 02:12 PM
Rumors of a movie about the Spice Girls' reunion tour have been nixed.
In other news, Hanson has magically turned back into its 1997 form so girls will fawn over them again.

johnr1note
07-30-2010, 02:12 PM
Adam Dunn is in the Nats lineup for tonight.

CAREY33
07-30-2010, 02:12 PM
I wonder if Kenny tried to offer another prospect or two to get Arizona to throw in Andy Laroche as well. I think that would have been great for the Sox.

harwar
07-30-2010, 02:12 PM
this appears to be a good time to move on to something else ..

soxfan26
07-30-2010, 02:13 PM
First?

Just kidding, what are the updates on the rumour front?

I can dispel one rumor right here and now:

No matter what you may have heard I was not just sleeping at my desk.

VeeckAsInWreck
07-30-2010, 02:13 PM
Adam Dunn is in the Nats lineup for tonight.

Why shouldn't he be, for the time being he is still a National. Let's check back in a couple of hours.

UofCSoxFan
07-30-2010, 02:14 PM
While researching connections between Dennis Rodman and Edwin Jackson I came across this fun fact: he was born in Neu-Ulm, West Germany....Jackson that is, not Rodman.

ShoelessJoeS
07-30-2010, 02:14 PM
I still want to know what a rumpus room is. A finished basement?Yea, something like that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recreation_room

VeeckAsInWreck
07-30-2010, 02:14 PM
While researching connections between Dennis Rodman and Edwin Jackson I came across this fun fact: he was born in Neu-Ulm, West Germany....Jackson that is, not Rodman.

Rodman was born on the planet Nebulon-5.

October26
07-30-2010, 02:14 PM
No work getting done by Sox fans today, that is for sure! :cool:

hi im skot
07-30-2010, 02:15 PM
Oh, sorry, I was looking for the Dennis Rodman thread.

:rolling:

RedHeadPaleHoser
07-30-2010, 02:15 PM
I once racked myself in the sensitive area of my body.

Doubled over in pain, my wife asked me what happened, so I told her.

She asked me if it hurt - I stated yes. I slowly stood up.

She asked me what it felt like - and kicked me there again.

"Did it feel just like that?"

Pablo_Honey
07-30-2010, 02:15 PM
So it seems Dunn is a no-go, which would mean we are stuck with Jackson and his 8 mil salary. Coop better find his magic wand very fast.

Or could it be that Kenny is still playing a mental tug-of-war with Rizzo?

Slappy
07-30-2010, 02:16 PM
Rumpus. Heh :b&b Heh

thomas35forever
07-30-2010, 02:16 PM
So it seems Dunn is a no-go, which would mean we are stuck with Jackson and his 8 mil salary. Coop better find his magic wand very fast.

Or could it be that Kenny is still playing a mental tug-of-war with Rizzo?
We could still have him tomorrow.

TheOldRoman
07-30-2010, 02:16 PM
So it seems Dunn is a no-go, which would mean we are stuck with Jackson and his 8 mil salary. Coop better find his magic wand very fast.

Or could it be that Kenny is still playing a mental tug-of-war with Rizzo?24 hours left. Who knows.

DirtySox
07-30-2010, 02:17 PM
So it seems Dunn is a no-go, which would mean we are stuck with Jackson and his 8 mil salary. Coop better find his magic wand very fast.

Or could it be that Kenny is still playing a mental tug-of-war with Rizzo?

I think it's very much alive until the trade deadline tomorrow afternoon.

VeeckAsInWreck
07-30-2010, 02:17 PM
Or could it be that Kenny is still playing a mental tug-of-war with Rizzo?

Absolutely. Don't rule anything out until tomorrow. Did you know we would have Edwin Jackson 24 hours ago? Kenny is not afraid to make moves, he's the opposite of Ron Schueler.

Pablo_Honey
07-30-2010, 02:18 PM
We could still have him tomorrow.

24 hours left. Who knows.
From the sound of it, it seemed like Kenny wanted to flip Jackson as soon as he got him, and Rizzo went "Psych!" on Kenny. Doubtful they'd wanna continue this game. I don't think we are getting Dunn.

ilsox7
07-30-2010, 02:19 PM
From the sound of it, it seemed like Kenny wanted to flip Jackson as soon as he got him, and Rizzo went "Psych!" on Kenny. Doubtful they'd wanna continue this game. I don't think we are getting Dunn.

That is highly unlikely.

Rockabilly
07-30-2010, 02:20 PM
Nationals just traded Christian Guzman to Rangers for prospects

Domeshot17
07-30-2010, 02:20 PM
From the sound of it, it seemed like Kenny wanted to flip Jackson as soon as he got him, and Rizzo went "Psych!" on Kenny. Doubtful they'd wanna continue this game. I don't think we are getting Dunn.


I would guess more it sounds like Rizzo wanted Jackson and when Ownership looked at the money they went "woah woah woah hold up"

Goose
07-30-2010, 02:21 PM
From the sound of it, it seemed like Kenny wanted to flip Jackson as soon as he got him, and Rizzo went "Psych!" on Kenny. Doubtful they'd wanna continue this game. I don't think we are getting Dunn.

If that was truly the case, why did they (CHI-ARI-DC) just do a 3 way trade? That way everyone knew what was on the table and who was getting whom. This does not make sense. I find it hard to believe that ML GMs are that gullible. I put no stock into that rumor.

Slappy
07-30-2010, 02:22 PM
I would guess more it sounds like Rizzo wanted Jackson and when Ownership looked at the money they went "woah woah woah hold up"

LOL. Yeah Rizzo would just agree to terms with Kenny and then decide to look at some paper work finally and go, "wait just a gosh darn second..."

Ex-Chicagoan
07-30-2010, 02:22 PM
Adam Dunn is in the Nats lineup for tonight.

And Hudson's pitching for the Sox tonight:

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/gametracker/preview/MLB_20100730_OAK@CHW

RockJock07
07-30-2010, 02:22 PM
So it seems Dunn is a no-go, which would mean we are stuck with Jackson and his 8 mil salary. Coop better find his magic wand very fast.

Or could it be that Kenny is still playing a mental tug-of-war with Rizzo?

Rizzo is ****ing with Kenny, we want jackson, we don't Jackson.

If I were Kenny I would be like "I'll send Jackson and a couple million in cash to you for Dunn. or I'll send Jackson and Danyan for Dunn and Lannan. You choose"

johnr1note
07-30-2010, 02:22 PM
Nationals just traded Christian Guzman to Rangers for prospects

Source?

johnr1note
07-30-2010, 02:23 PM
And Hudson's pitching for the Sox tonight:

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/gametracker/preview/MLB_20100730_OAK@CHW

They did change this on the official site.

thomas35forever
07-30-2010, 02:24 PM
If I were Kenny I would be like "I'll send Jackson and a couple million in cash to you for Dunn. or I'll send Jackson and Danyan for Dunn and Lannan. You choose"
Sounds reasonable and it goes along with my belief that you don't pull the trigger on a Dunn-for-Jackson trade unless a pitcher is thrown in as well.

Rockabilly
07-30-2010, 02:24 PM
Source?

http://therocket.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/07/guzman_traded_to_the_nats_for.html

VeeckAsInWreck
07-30-2010, 02:24 PM
Source?

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/07/rangers-acquire-cristian-guzman.html

Uncontested
07-30-2010, 02:24 PM
Source?


http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/07/rangers-acquire-cristian-guzman.html

ilsox7
07-30-2010, 02:24 PM
I would guess more it sounds like Rizzo wanted Jackson and when Ownership looked at the money they went "woah woah woah hold up"

I think it's more like KW wants to keep Jackson and is trying to find a way to get Dunn using other pieces.

Pablo_Honey
07-30-2010, 02:28 PM
I think it's more like KW wants to keep Jackson and is trying to find a way to get Dunn using other pieces.
Can Kenny ever leave the farm alone?

ilsox7
07-30-2010, 02:30 PM
Can Kenny ever leave the farm alone?

I think KW's track record of trading prospects that don't amount to much is pretty damn good.

Nelfox02
07-30-2010, 02:30 PM
Kenny cant possibly be stupid enough to commit to taking on Jackson with just a verbal promise out of WSH that they would take Jackson as part of the Dunn package?

I sure hope not, because if we walk away from all this with only Edwin Jackson to show for it......wow Short term he is probably better than Hudson yes (but how much better really?) But now we have that money on our books next year....8 mil for Jackson? why?

RockJock07
07-30-2010, 02:30 PM
Can Kenny ever leave the farm alone?

The farm doesn't win him rings. He uses that fact that GM's loves the can't miss prospects and gets guys in return that help his club because for the most part they are proven guys.

TheOldRoman
07-30-2010, 02:32 PM
Rizzo is ****ing with Kenny, we want jackson, we don't Jackson.

If I were Kenny I would be like "I'll send Jackson and a couple million in cash to you for Dunn. or I'll send Jackson and Danyan for Dunn and Lannan. You choose"I think you are giving far too much credit to these reporters. They are posting what they are told, and some of them are undoubtedly making stuff up. What they are being told by teams is often deliberately false info to put up a smokescreen. That is why we have two people reporting opposite things minutes apart. Believe nothing you read until 3:30 tomorrow or until a deal is announced.

Coops4Aces
07-30-2010, 02:36 PM
I miss that guy with all the rumors. He had tweets from everywhere! :D:

UofCSoxFan
07-30-2010, 02:38 PM
I hope people don't seriously believe that the Washington GM is screwing over KW by backing out of some agreement. What would be the point...to give the Nationals a competitive advantage over the White Sox for the 3 games they play against each other ever 3 or 4 years at the expense of losing a trading potential trading partner forever? Makse zero sense. It's much more likely that a) people are reporting misinformation or b) both sides never agreed to anything and are still trying to make the deal work.

Pablo_Honey
07-30-2010, 02:38 PM
I think KW's track record of trading prospects that don't amount to much is pretty damn good.
He's been lucky in that regard. Still, some guys have developed into serviceable MLB players.

The farm doesn't win him rings. He uses that fact that GM's loves the can't miss prospects and gets guys in return that help his club because for the most part they are proven guys.
And where has that gotten the team? Last time we won the World Series we had heavy contributions from our farmhands in Buehrle, Crede, Garland, Rowand, Cotts and Jenks. The only guy we pillaged the farm for was Freddy and the others were either FA signings (Iguchi, Dye, AJ) or swapping Major League pieces (Contreras, Scotty). We keep trading farm pieces away without building up the farm first. We always run low on ammo and Kenny keep pulling the trigger. Sooner or later, he will have to change his methods unless Jerry gives him a bigger wallet to work around with.

Randar68
07-30-2010, 02:40 PM
He's been lucky in that regard. Still, some guys have developed into serviceable MLB players.

And Clayton Richard has had a pretty solid year, albeit in a good division for pitchers (big parks out there)

ilsox7
07-30-2010, 02:41 PM
He's been lucky in that regard. Still, some guys have developed into serviceable MLB players.




While luck may play some role in it, there is much more skill involved.

Randar68
07-30-2010, 02:41 PM
Sounds reasonable and it goes along with my belief that you don't pull the trigger on a Dunn-for-Jackson trade unless a pitcher is thrown in as well.

Unless they have another deal on the back burner for a guy like Bret Myers, for example.

DirtySox
07-30-2010, 02:41 PM
I miss that guy with all the rumors. He had tweets from everywhere! :D:

Don't worry, the rumors have slowed down considerably.

Randar68
07-30-2010, 02:42 PM
While luck may play some role in it, there is much more skill involved.

I have to admit, I never saw the McCarthy/Danks trade turning out the way it did. I think I am more surprised that McCarthy has been as fragile/mediocre than by Danks' success.

Chicken Dinner
07-30-2010, 02:43 PM
Don't worry, the rumors have slowed down considerably.

But there's 24 hours to go! :D:

Tragg
07-30-2010, 02:44 PM
Trade your top pitching prospect for a bad national league pitcher. Williams has either lost his mind or guillen ordered him off the roster. Using valuable prospects for utterly replaceable players is mind boggling. Oh and that savvy trader Williams threw in another pitcher.....as always

soxfanreggie
07-30-2010, 02:44 PM
He's been lucky in that regard. Still, some guys have developed into serviceable MLB players.


And where has that gotten the team? Last time we won the World Series we had heavy contributions from our farmhands in Buehrle, Crede, Garland, Rowand, Cotts and Jenks. The only guy we pillaged the farm for was Freddy and the others were either FA signings (Iguchi, Dye, AJ) or swapping Major League pieces (Contreras, Scotty). We keep trading farm pieces away without building up the farm first. We always run low on ammo and Kenny keep pulling the trigger. Sooner or later, he will have to change his methods unless Jerry gives him a bigger wallet to work around with.

True Neal was from our farm system, but he spent more time in the A's farm system. He was part of the Koch-Foulke deal in 2002 and was up in 2003 with the Sox in August.

Jenks was the same except he spent even less time on the farm. He was only in the minors until the first week of July after being claimed that offseason from the Angels. He was a great initial investment - costing us only $20,000.

While they may have been "farmhands" briefly, they weren't homegrown guys like I think you were trying to go for.

TheOldRoman
07-30-2010, 02:45 PM
But there's 24 hours to go! :D:24 hours and 15 minutes. But this time tomorrow I am going to be outide mowing the lawn. It's bad enough I wasted an entire work day following the trade deadline, I am not going to waste a weekend day, too. I hope to be pleasantly surprised when I turn on the TV at 3.

guillensdisciple
07-30-2010, 02:45 PM
Trade your top pitching prospect for a bad national league pitcher. Williams has either lost his mind or guillen ordered him off the roster. Using valuable prospects for utterly replaceable players is mind boggling. Oh and that savvy trader Williams threw in another pitcher.....as always

There's no need to give a sarcastic Kenny comment. Kenny has done wonders in trades.

doublem23
07-30-2010, 02:45 PM
Last time we won the World Series we had heavy contributions from our farmhands in Buehrle, Crede, Garland, Rowand, Cotts and Jenks.

I guess you could claim Garland one of ours, but he was drafted by the Cubs and spent a year in their farm system before coming over here in a trade. Cotts and Jenks, however, were both developed elsewhere, they just landed here by good fortune.

On the flip side, a few years ago, the Diamondbacks were unquestionably the best run franchise in baseball, they had prospects up the wazoo and look what that got them.

ilsox7
07-30-2010, 02:45 PM
I have to admit, I never saw the McCarthy/Danks trade turning out the way it did. I think I am more surprised that McCarthy has been as fragile/mediocre than by Danks' success.

For whatever reason, McCarthy never impressed me much. I thought he would be a middle of the rotation guy, though. Not the apparent mediocre/injury risk he is. So I liked that deal. Then again, I liked the first Swisher deal, so that shows how much I know!

Bottom line is, whether people love or hate KW, it is tough to prove that he doesn't know what he is trading away, and it usually does not come back to haunt him.

TheOldRoman
07-30-2010, 02:46 PM
Trade your top pitching prospect for a bad national league pitcher. Williams has either lost his mind or guillen ordered him off the roster. Using valuable prospects for utterly replaceable players is mind boggling. Oh and that savvy trader Williams threw in another pitcher.....as alwaysVintage Tragg.

CHISOXFAN13
07-30-2010, 02:46 PM
Trade your top pitching prospect for a bad national league pitcher. Williams has either lost his mind or guillen ordered him off the roster. Using valuable prospects for utterly replaceable players is mind boggling. Oh and that savvy trader Williams threw in another pitcher.....as always

The trade deadline is tomorrow at 3. If Williams makes a move before then, you will have egg on your face as usual.

Par for the course with you.

soxfan43
07-30-2010, 02:46 PM
24 hours and 15 minutes. But this time tomorrow I am going to be outide mowing the lawn. It's bad enough I wasted an entire work day following the trade deadline, I am not going to waste a weekend day, too. I hope to be pleasantly surprised when I turn on the TV at 3.


Good plan. I just made a tee time that will take me through the deadline tomorrow. This is getting crazy.

Randar68
07-30-2010, 02:46 PM
Trade your top pitching prospect for a bad national league pitcher. Williams has either lost his mind or guillen ordered him off the roster. Using valuable prospects for utterly replaceable players is mind boggling. Oh and that savvy trader Williams threw in another pitcher.....as always

He does have a pretty good record, no? (Kenny, that is). In all seriousness, unless Coop saw something on film that can quickly get him back to 2009 form, I don't see why:

1) They would trade their top pitching prospect (current #5 starter) for him
2) Why would Washington want a guy owed $12M for the next year + 2 months as opposed to Hudson himself @ $400k and rights control for the next 6 years?

This part makes no sense to me. Maybe Kenny got the wrong Jackson? LOL! :D:

Nelfox02
07-30-2010, 02:47 PM
The Jackson move in and of itself is pretty awful......does anyone like that move (again, making the assumption that it is going to be the only move)

that is just so much money to pay a guy with his track record......

SOXBOY
07-30-2010, 02:47 PM
Kenny always (sooner or much later) gets his guy. I think about 3-4 years ago he was trying to get Jackson from the LA. I think Jackson is here to stay and maybe another deal for a bat(Dunn or whoever)

Pablo_Honey
07-30-2010, 02:48 PM
True Neal was from our farm system, but he spent more time in the A's farm system. He was part of the Koch-Foulke deal in 2002 and was up in 2003 with the Sox in August.

Jenks was the same except he spent even less time on the farm. He was only in the minors until the first week of July after being claimed that offseason from the Angels. He was a great initial investment - costing us only $20,000.

While they may have been "farmhands" briefly, they weren't homegrown guys like I think you were trying to go for.
Yeah I knew Cotts and Jenks were iffy to be labelled as farmhands but I was trying to find examples of guys who came up from our minor leagues and contributed to that 2005 team. I guess I should have clarified it as such instead of simply saying "farmhands."

kittle42
07-30-2010, 02:49 PM
Vintage Tragg.

Vintage Cena!

ilsox7
07-30-2010, 02:50 PM
The Jackson move in and of itself is pretty awful......does anyone like that move (again, making the assumption that it is going to be the only move)

that is just so much money to pay a guy with his track record......

I wouldn't mind the move if it weren't for the money owed next year. With that contract, though, it is a tough move to swallow. It looks like the number one option for the Sox is to keep Jackson and get a bat. If they do that, then it makes sense to have Jackson slot into the #5 role and I can live with that. Then you just hope you can "fix" him for next year and he pitches like a top of the rotation guy. Because if he did, this pitching staff will be SICK next year.

Option number 2 is obviously to trade Jackson for Dunn.

oeo
07-30-2010, 02:51 PM
Yeah I knew Cotts and Jenks were iffy to be labelled as farmhands but I was trying to find examples of guys who came up from our minor leagues and contributed to that 2005 team. I guess I should have clarified it as such instead of simply saying "farmhands."

2005 was the first year they didn't depend on farmhands and they won. Look at the change from the beginning of 2004 to 2005 in terms of our own talent that was on the field. It didn't work so well.

BringHomeDaBacon
07-30-2010, 02:52 PM
I guess you could claim Garland one of ours, but he was drafted by the Cubs and spent a year in their farm system before coming over here in a trade. Cotts and Jenks, however, were both developed elsewhere, they just landed here by good fortune.

On the flip side, a few years ago, the Diamondbacks were unquestionably the best run franchise in baseball, they had prospects up the wazoo and look what that got them.

I must have slept through the golden era of Diamondbacks baseball.

fram40
07-30-2010, 02:53 PM
The Jackson move in and of itself is pretty awful......does anyone like that move (again, making the assumption that it is going to be the only move)

that is just so much money to pay a guy with his track record......

I like the move ... for this year. I would rather have a guy with a few years in the majors than a prospect/rookie in the starting rotation.

If the Sox win the division, I really like the move.

fram40
07-30-2010, 02:54 PM
On the flip side, a few years ago, the Diamondbacks were unquestionably the best run franchise in baseball, they had prospects up the wazoo and look what that got them.

they swept the Cubs in the NLDS ...

Pablo_Honey
07-30-2010, 02:55 PM
I guess you could claim Garland one of ours, but he was drafted by the Cubs and spent a year in their farm system before coming over here in a trade. Cotts and Jenks, however, were both developed elsewhere, they just landed here by good fortune.
I explained it in my last post, which was being typed as you posted this. So, you can read about it there, if you don't mind.

On the flip side, a few years ago, the Diamondbacks were unquestionably the best run franchise in baseball, they had prospects up the wazoo and look what that got them.
They cleared the farm for Dan Haren and gave Eric Byrnes an extension, whilst giving up Quentin. It's true quite a few of their top prospects never panned out (Connor Jackson comes to mind). Still, I wish Kenny would build up the farm more properly before going on a rampage every year.

UofCSoxFan
07-30-2010, 02:56 PM
Early fangraphs analysis is that Arizona won the deal based upon the fact that Hudson and Jackson project similarly but Hudson is under control through 2016 and much cheaper. I wouldn't say they think we got fleeced though.

Danielgosox38
07-30-2010, 02:56 PM
vintage cena!

not this way!

doublem23
07-30-2010, 02:56 PM
they swept the Cubs in the NLDS ...

And are on pace to lose 90 games for the 2nd straight year. They're in a death spiral. They suck.

doublem23
07-30-2010, 02:59 PM
I must have slept through the golden era of Diamondbacks baseball.

That's because it never panned out. They relied heavily on homegrown kids, made a few mistakes, and suddenly they've divebombed to the cellar of their division. But there were articles from the 2008 season that proclaimed the D'backs as baseball's "model franchise" for the way they drafted, developed, and built their team through the farm system.

UofCSoxFan
07-30-2010, 03:02 PM
That's because it never panned out. They relied heavily on homegrown kids, made a few mistakes, and suddenly they've divebombed to the cellar of their division. But there were articles from the 2008 season that proclaimed the D'backs as baseball's "model franchise" for the way they drafted, developed, and built their team through the farm system.

It's amazing how fickle baseball can be. One bad contract or personel descision can wipe away years of good work. I was just thinking yesterday that it's been less than 10 years since the Mariners won 116 games...they're much closer to losing 116 games at this point.

If I recall correctly, wasn't the Byrnes extension, which not only killed them financially (they are still paying him) but also made them dump Quinten, driven by ownership, who wanted to make a splash with the fans (as Byrnes was a fan favorite) oppossed to being a front office deal? I remember hearing that.

Nelfox02
07-30-2010, 03:03 PM
I like the move ... for this year. I would rather have a guy with a few years in the majors than a prospect/rookie in the starting rotation.

If the Sox win the division, I really like the move.


I guess we will agree to disagree-----in an of itself I see this move making us marginally better (I have about the same expectation of winning a game with Jackson out there than I do Hudson) while at the same time limiting what we can do in the off season now that we are stuck paying him 8 mil

I hope you are right tho, I hope Jackson finds some of that potential here and pitches well........if we are indeed stuck with him

SoxSpeed22
07-30-2010, 03:04 PM
I don't like giving up on Hudson this early. We'll just have to see where Kenny is going with this.

TheOldRoman
07-30-2010, 03:04 PM
That's because it never panned out. They relied heavily on homegrown kids, made a few mistakes, and suddenly they've divebombed to the cellar of their division. But there were articles from the 2008 season that proclaimed the D'backs as baseball's "model franchise" for the way they drafted, developed, and built their team through the farm system.Yep, a horrible GM ran the team into the ground, largely because of the Eric Byrnes extension. I would say LOL @ Eric Byrnes but that ugly bastard is still being paid $10 million by the D-Backs this year to sit at home.

Pablo_Honey
07-30-2010, 03:05 PM
Fine, I admit that I've been proven wrong. There's a reason why I'm not the GM and Kenny is. Kenny knows his **** as a GM and he makes all the right calls. I should just reserve my judgement. All right then let's change the topic back to EDWIN ****ING JACKSON! How about that fastball of his?

Randar68
07-30-2010, 03:05 PM
It's amazing how fickle baseball can be. One bad contract or personel descision can wipe away years of good work. I was just thinking yesterday that it's been less than 10 years since the Mariners won 116 games...they're much closer to losing 116 games at this point.

And it's been almost 14 years since Jerry, Ron, and Frank sat up there to announce baseball's first $10M man. Crazy to think that was 14 or whatever years ago. Even the Arod signing was epically bad for the Rangers. They were spending money like crazy but they were always ham-strung to a degree.

fram40
07-30-2010, 03:06 PM
And are on pace to lose 90 games for the 2nd straight year. They're in a death spiral. They suck.

I should have posted in teal becasue I agree with you. I thought the D'Backs had a bright future after sweeping the Cubs.

Instead, they became the D'Bags. Led by the immortal Chris Young.

Surprisingly, Rob Neyer does not like this trade. He likes nothing of the Sox. I wondered if KW killed his dog or something.

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/4590/is-edwin-jackson-the-new-carl-pavano

Randar68
07-30-2010, 03:07 PM
I hope you are right tho, I hope Jackson finds some of that potential here and pitches well........if we are indeed stuck with him

Taking the same approach, but it is good to hear confirmation that Coop had identified something there and feels he can tweak him... aka Floyd/Thornton. Will be interesting to see play out one way or the other.

Lillian
07-30-2010, 03:07 PM
I can't believe that Rizzo would "stiff" Kenny. These men have a code of honor, and wouldn't dare renig on an agreement.

It's very difficult to imagine that Kenny acquired Jackson coincidentally. It's obvious that Jackson was acquired in order to satisfy Rizzo's demands for Dunn.

Kenny's dilemma is that he has just traded one of the organization's best prospects, and the guy whom the Sox were counting on to be in the rotation, down the stretch.

Therefore, it seems more likely that Rizzo and K.W. have a gentlemen's agreement that the Sox would get Jackson for Rizzo, if Rizzo could come up with another starter to fill the staff's void for the rest of the season.

Kenny has just completed his half of the accord, and now Rizzo just traded Guzman for prospects. Maybe that has something to do with all of this, but in any case Rizzo could include a starter along with Dunn for Jackson.
So what starter do the Nationals have who will be a free agent? Livan Hernandez, is on a 1 year contract, and would be suitable for the Sox as a starter just for the rest of the year.

bestkosher
07-30-2010, 03:11 PM
While I like your thinking Lillian. Rizzo seems to think Adam Dunn is worth gold. I would hate to see what he thinks Livan is worth.

Randar68
07-30-2010, 03:12 PM
While I like your thinking Lillian. Rizzo seems to think Adam Dunn is worth gold. I would hate to see what he thinks Livan is worth.

I'd heard Livan's name mentioned peripherally just yesterday and that was the first I'd heard of it. Wouldn't be the craziest idea ever but I have been hearing more and more smoke behind the "Coop wants Jackson and can fix him" storyline, so maybe they will make a deal without him in it?

WhiteSox5187
07-30-2010, 03:14 PM
I should have posted in teal becasue I agree with you. I thought the D'Backs had a bright future after sweeping the Cubs.

Instead, they became the D'Bags. Led by the immortal Chris Young.

Surprisingly, Rob Neyer does not like this trade. He likes nothing of the Sox. I wondered if KW killed his dog or something.

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/4590/is-edwin-jackson-the-new-carl-pavano

I don't like this trade! I don't like Neyer either, I always get angry when I read him.

balke
07-30-2010, 03:14 PM
Fine, I admit that I've been proven wrong. There's a reason why I'm not the GM and Kenny is. Kenny knows his **** as a GM and he makes all the right calls. I should just reserve my judgement. All right then let's change the topic back to EDWIN ****ING JACKSON! How about that fastball of his?

From what I've been reading most people like his Slider more.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/356937-arizonas-edwin-jackson-or-the-giants-matt-cain-whos-the-better-pitcher

If the Sox keep him - I'm hoping he picks up a cut fastball or something. Maybe Esteban Loaiza / John Danks style and he gets way better.

The Immigrant
07-30-2010, 03:22 PM
http://twitpic.com/2a3s92

Hitmen77
07-30-2010, 03:23 PM
http://twitpic.com/2a3s92

:lol: Ha! That woman doesn't look too happy, does she?

fram40
07-30-2010, 03:28 PM
I don't like this trade! I don't like Neyer either, I always get angry when I read him.

The weird thing is I usually like Neyer, except when he writes about the Sox or the central division. Just the other day he predicted the twinkies to win the division this year

hi im skot
07-30-2010, 03:28 PM
:lol: Ha! That woman doesn't look too happy, does she?

If your arm looked like this (http://deadspin.com/5600760/father-of-the-year-makes-daughter-pose-with-barracuda-that-ripped-her-flesh-open) (warning, it's bloody), you probably wouldn't be too thrilled, either.

Slappy
07-30-2010, 03:28 PM
http://twitpic.com/2a3s92

:redneck

Hitmen77
07-30-2010, 03:29 PM
The more I think about it, the more I really doubt the Sox are flipping Jackson to the Nats for Dunn.

Why would the Nationals want an underachieving pitcher who is owed about $10 million through the end of 2011?

Why would the Sox unload Hudson and Jackson to get Dunn? Yes, we need another bat, but that leaves an even bigger hole in our rotation. (and, no, I don't think Carlos Torres is a viable option).

Unless there is a separate deal in the works, I don't expect us to simply just exchange Jackson for Dunn at this point. It would make little sense for us or for Washington.

october23sp
07-30-2010, 03:29 PM
Well I was away for a bit for work, and I have to weigh in on the Den situation. I am helping my friend finish up his den this weekend. I also have a loft above my garage. Lots of gaming happens.

Lillian
07-30-2010, 03:30 PM
To complete the thought, and in summary, Rizzo has been coveting Jackson. His problem has been that he was trying to acquire a guy from a team that is out of the race, as is his team. There wasn't a good fit there.

The guy he can move, who has value to a contender is Dunn. Enter, K.W. and the Sox who are in the race. K.W. gives up a young, inexpensive pitcher, which Arizona seeks, and the Nationals wouldn't trade. K.W. then is ready to deliver Jackson to Rizzo, but first demands that the Nationals throw in L. Hernandez in order to fill the empty spot in the rotation.
Rizzo has no problem agreeing to that, as Hernandez is going to be a free agent at the end of the season.

Hernandez is a good fit because the Sox are now depending upon their two youngest and least experienced pitchers to carry them the rest of the way. A veteran presence like Hernandez would be a perfect compliment to Danks and Floyd.

It all makes a lot of sense to me. The Sox could even throw in another lower ranked prospect in order to get Dunn and Hernandez.

Hitmen77
07-30-2010, 03:31 PM
If your arm looked like this (http://deadspin.com/5600760/father-of-the-year-makes-daughter-pose-with-barracuda-that-ripped-her-flesh-open) (warning, it's bloody), you probably wouldn't be too thrilled, either.

Ouch!

Lillian
07-30-2010, 03:33 PM
The more I think about it, the more I really doubt the Sox are flipping Jackson to the Nats for Dunn.

Why would the Nationals want an underachieving pitcher who is owed about $10 million through the end of 2011?

Why would the Sox unload Hudson and Jackson to get Dunn? Yes, we need another bat, but that leaves an even bigger hole in our rotation. (and, no, I don't think Carlos Torres is a viable option).

Unless there is a separate deal in the works, I don't expect us to simply just exchange Jackson for Dunn at this point. It would make little sense for us or for Washington.

That may be a valid assessment of Jackson's value, but apparently that isn't Rizzo's opinion. He seems to want him from all of the reports.
Isn't that all that counts here?

Randar68
07-30-2010, 03:33 PM
It all makes a lot of sense to me.

It actually makes a ton of sense... But that's also why Kenny will trade Jackson to the Marlins for Cody Ross or something stupid like that. :redneck

flo-B-flo
07-30-2010, 03:40 PM
While researching connections between Dennis Rodman and Edwin Jackson I came across this fun fact: he was born in Neu-Ulm, West Germany....Jackson that is, not Rodman.

Was born on Pluto........:tongue:

PalehosePlanet
07-30-2010, 03:42 PM
To complete the thought, and in summary, Rizzo has been coveting Jackson. His problem has been that he was trying to acquire a guy from a team that is out of the race, as is his team. There wasn't a good fit there.

The guy he can move, who has value to a contender is Dunn. Enter, K.W. and the Sox who are in the race. K.W. gives up a young, inexpensive pitcher, which Arizona seeks, and the Nationals wouldn't trade. K.W. then is ready to deliver Jackson to Rizzo, but first demands that the Nationals throw in L. Hernandez in order to fill the empty spot in the rotation.
Rizzo has no problem agreeing to that, as Hernandez is going to be a free agent at the end of the season.

Hernandez is a good fit because the Sox are now depending upon their two youngest and least experienced pitchers to carry them the rest of the way. A veteran presence like Hernandez would be a perfect compliment to Danks and Floyd.

It all makes a lot of sense to me. The Sox could even throw in another lower ranked prospect in order to get Dunn and Hernandez.

God no!!!! Please. Livan is absolutely terrible. I'm shocked he's still in the league.

I'd take my chances with Torres instead.

PhillipsBubba
07-30-2010, 03:43 PM
Terrible....terrible...terrible....

Randar68
07-30-2010, 03:45 PM
God no!!!! Please. Livan is absolutely terrible. I'm shocked he's still in the league.

I'd take my chances with Torres instead.

His numbers this year are vastly superior to Jackson's, so who knows? Washington is a great pitcher's park, but he has a 3.89 ERA and 1.29 WHIP on the road, so not the end of the world.

BleacherBandit
07-30-2010, 03:48 PM
God no!!!! Please. Livan is absolutely terrible. I'm shocked he's still in the league.

I'd take my chances with Torres instead.

A 3.22 ERA and 7 wins with the Nationals is nothing to sneeze at, IMO.

UofCSoxFan
07-30-2010, 03:51 PM
Is Cowley alive...dude was spreading rumors left in right 6 hours ago and hasn't said boo since.

KRS1
07-30-2010, 03:53 PM
Unless this is to flip him, this trade ****ing sucks. Hudson is already a more complete pitcher than Edwin and we give up Holmberg too? Just ****ing terrible. Truly awful.

Nelfox02
07-30-2010, 03:53 PM
His numbers this year are vastly superior to Jackson's, so who knows? Washington is a great pitcher's park, but he has a 3.89 ERA and 1.29 WHIP on the road, so not the end of the world.


rather have Hernandez than Jackson as well......I am just really really down on this move. I dont get it at all if it not part of another deal. Reclamation projects are one thing, reclamtion projects, but one that will cost us the money that Jackson is owed?

yuck

DirtySox
07-30-2010, 03:53 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6270335/23534843?tag=mccBlogView;comBlogEntryListMiniCnt

october23sp
07-30-2010, 03:54 PM
Unless this is to flip him, this trade ****ing sucks. Hudson is already a more complete pitcher than Edwin and we give up Holmberg too? Just ****ing terrible. Truly awful.

Even if we do flip it, we need a 5th starter.

soltrain21
07-30-2010, 03:55 PM
Is Cowley alive...dude was spreading rumors left in right 6 hours ago and hasn't said boo since.

His mom bought him some bottle rockets so he is outside shooting them for a bit. He will be back in his basement soon enough.

PalehosePlanet
07-30-2010, 03:56 PM
A 3.22 ERA and 7 wins with the Nationals is nothing to sneeze at, IMO.

He pitched for the Twinkies a couple of years ago and did well for about 5-6 weeks. Once AL hitters got accustomed to his 83 MPH fastball, he was quickly released.

He leads the league in hits allowed almost every year, it seems like. Also keep in mind those 400 ft. flyouts are HR's in our park.

Jackson, fwiw, pitched in a launching pad at Arizona on a much worse team than The Nats. Look at Haren's era before he was paroled.

Hitmen77
07-30-2010, 03:57 PM
Unless this is to flip him, this trade ****ing sucks. Hudson is already a more complete pitcher than Edwin and we give up Holmberg too? Just ****ing terrible. Truly awful.

You left off one more thing that makes this awful. Unless traded elsewhere, the Sox will owe him about $10 million through the end of next season.

Lillian
07-30-2010, 03:58 PM
Dunn was just reported to have said he would consider DH'ing.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

DirtySox
07-30-2010, 03:59 PM
Dunn was just reported to have said he would consider DH'ing.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/e...tryListMiniCnt (http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6270335/23534843?tag=mccBlogView;comBlogEntryListMiniCnt)
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/images/misc/progress.gif

Slappy
07-30-2010, 04:00 PM
We don't necessarily have to keep him next year, so we don't owe him 10 mil. I'd be baffled if Kenny gave up those two arms for 2 months (or more) of E Jax.

russ99
07-30-2010, 04:01 PM
Unless this is to flip him, this trade ****ing sucks. Hudson is already a more complete pitcher than Edwin and we give up Holmberg too? Just ****ing terrible. Truly awful.

Hudson has 2 pitches (and he has confidence in really only one), and is trying to develop a third pitch. No way is he a more complete pitcher than Jackson, who has great stuff and who's problems are all about control. Hudson doesn't have a 97 mph fastball either.

Hudson does have a higher potential ceiling, and Jackson's gone off track - I'll give you that.

Worry about next year's payroll next year. We don't know if Peavy's going to be ready to go, so this counts as insurance.

KRS1
07-30-2010, 04:02 PM
Seriously, is there anyone who actually likes this trade, let alone doesn't find it utterly stupid?

DirtySox
07-30-2010, 04:03 PM
Seriously, is there anyone who actually likes this trade, let alone doesn't find it utterly stupid?

I hope not.

Also, Berkman is about to be a Yankee. One less Dunn suitor. The Rays can trump any Sox offer if so inclined though.

KRS1
07-30-2010, 04:03 PM
Hudson has 2 pitches (and he has confidence in really only one), and is trying to develop a third pitch. No way is he a more complete pitcher than Jackson, who's problems are all about control.

Hudson doesn't have a 97 mph fastball either.

Hudson touches the mid 90s regularly with good movement and good command of all his pitches. Jackson has a straight 4-seamer, some wicked stuff and little command over anything.

BleacherBandit
07-30-2010, 04:04 PM
He pitched for the Twinkies a couple of years ago and did well for about 5-6 weeks. Once AL hitters got accustomed to his 83 MPH fastball, he was quickly released.

He leads the league in hits allowed almost every year, it seems like. Also keep in mind those 400 ft. flyouts are HR's in our park.

Jackson, fwiw, pitched in a launching pad at Arizona on a much worse team than The Nats. Look at Haren's era before he was paroled.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I would rather have Jackson than Hernandez. I just won't call Hernandez awful ATM.

Rockabilly
07-30-2010, 04:04 PM
I'm glad the Sox are not getting Berkman..

Nelfox02
07-30-2010, 04:05 PM
Dunn was just reported to have said he would consider DH'ing.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/


also said at the end he was not going anywhere


got a feeling this Jackson trade is the big move of the deadline for us, where is HomeFish to back up me and the other dark clouds rolling in over this thread?

voodoochile
07-30-2010, 04:05 PM
Seriously, is there anyone who actually likes this trade, let alone doesn't find it utterly stupid?


Willing to take a wait and see on a pitcher who has been selected to the ASG and threw "the ugliest" NO HITTER in MLB history...

hoosiersoxfan
07-30-2010, 04:07 PM
Is MLB network filming "The Club" for the entire season and if they are do you think they will have footage of Kenny's trade deadline wheeling and dealing in an episode later this year?

hi im skot
07-30-2010, 04:07 PM
Willing to take a wait and see on a pitcher who has been selected to the ASG and threw "the ugliest" NO HITTER in MLB history...

All-star appearances are always a great measure of a player's worth.

oeo
07-30-2010, 04:07 PM
Seriously, is there anyone who actually likes this trade, let alone doesn't find it utterly stupid?

Unless they turn around and trade him for Dunn, which seems like it can get done as long as someone else doesn't swoop in (Rays?). I like the idea of getting Livan Hernandez as well. Would be a much better option than Torres.

oeo
07-30-2010, 04:08 PM
All-star appearances are always a great measure of a player's worth.

Though he was definitely deserving of it last year. He had a great first half.

voodoochile
07-30-2010, 04:10 PM
All-star appearances are always a great measure of a player's worth.

For pitchers they tend to mean a bit more because they aren't selected by fans.

And no, it's not the be all and end all of achievement, but it does show a certain level of ability. Even the worst AS in any given year an above average talent a the least.

In addition, some people are throwing around his age (26) as a bad thing, but bluntly speaking that's still relatively young for a pitcher - who often figure things out later than hitters do.

If he isn't flipped and ends up being the 5th starter for the rest of the year and next, it won't be the worst thing that's ever happened to the team, not even close.

october23sp
07-30-2010, 04:11 PM
What is going to have to happen in 24 hours for WSI to break the most visitors online record?

munchman33
07-30-2010, 04:12 PM
Seriously, is there anyone who actually likes this trade, let alone doesn't find it utterly stupid?

I love this trade, I think we're better this year with Jackson as our fifth starter, and I feel we turned a borderline MLB pitcher into a guy with ace potential.

Nelfox02
07-30-2010, 04:13 PM
]

If he isn't flipped and ends up being the 5th starter for the rest of the year and next, it won't be the worst thing that's ever happened to the team, not even close.


worst thing---no, but potentially VERY bad thing considering the cash committment.......unless Sox are going to at the very least keep payroll where it is now next season or bump it 10 to 20 mildo

PhillipsBubba
07-30-2010, 04:14 PM
Even if we do flip it, we need a 5th starter.

Something else must be in the works...otherwise this ranks as KW's worst trade...even worse than Bill Veeck's Johnny Callison for Gene Freese:o:

Marqhead
07-30-2010, 04:14 PM
I love this trade, I think we're better this year with Jackson as our fifth starter, and I feel we turned a borderline MLB pitcher into a guy with ace potential.

I'm on board with this. Jackson is young, has proven he can pitch in the MLB. Hudson flew through the minors but still seems to need work. This shores up the staff without Peavy. $8.5 million isn't horrible considering what some pitchers are getting on the open market.

Marqhead
07-30-2010, 04:14 PM
Something else must be in the works...otherwise this ranks as KW's worst trade...even worse than Bill Veeck's Johnny Callison for Gene Freese:o:

Really?

Really?

DSpivack
07-30-2010, 04:14 PM
What is going to have to happen in 24 hours for WSI to break the most visitors online record?

A sudden swarm of google spiders?

harwar
07-30-2010, 04:15 PM
It's possible that Coop saw something on film that Jackson was doing different this year and that he might be able to get him back to where he was last year ..

dickallen15
07-30-2010, 04:15 PM
Hudson touches the mid 90s regularly with good movement and good command of all his pitches. Jackson has a straight 4-seamer, some wicked stuff and little command over anything.

He doesn't have good command at this time, but I wouldn't be surprised if he gets it. It is a curious trade, however, Jackson throws 97 and Cooper loves him. If he can get him to throw strikes, I'm sure everyone will love this trade.

russ99
07-30-2010, 04:15 PM
Something else must be in the works...otherwise this ranks as KW's worst trade...even worse than Bill Veeck's Johnny Callison for Gene Freese:o:

Some people have an overvalued sense of Hudson's actual worth.

Maybe we should let the guy get a few innings under his belt as a member of the Sox before assuming this is the worst trade in Sox history.

TheCQExperience
07-30-2010, 04:16 PM
A lot of people are really dumping on Edwin Jackson and even though I'm not particularly happy with this trade I think some are going overboard. If we want to win now (which I believe is Kenny's goal), Hudson was not going to get the job done. The Sox have taken a chance to either flip Jackson or hope they can help a guy with electric stuff find his control. Either way, it shows the Sox want to win a championship this year, and that's all I care about when in first place on July 30th.

beasly213
07-30-2010, 04:16 PM
I love this trade, I think we're better this year with Jackson as our fifth starter, and I feel we turned a borderline MLB pitcher into a guy with ace potential.


+1. I heard Steve Stone on the score today and he mentioned that Hudson was a ground ball pitcher in the minors but once he came to the big leagues he became a fly ball pitcher...something that obviously won't work at the Cell. I trust Kennys judgment when it comes to dumping pitchers he thinks won't work out. He has a good history of this to back it up.

soltrain21
07-30-2010, 04:16 PM
I'm closer to thinking this is a good deal than I am closer to thinking it's not a good deal, but I'd really like to see us get another bat.

DirtySox
07-30-2010, 04:17 PM
+1. I heard Steve Stone on the score today and he mentioned that Hudson was a ground ball pitcher in the minors but once he came to the big leagues he became a fly ball pitcher...something that obviously won't work at the Cell. I trust Kennys judgment when it comes to dumping pitchers he thinks won't work out. He has a good history of this to back it up.

Hudson was always a fly ball pitcher.

Marqhead
07-30-2010, 04:17 PM
I'm closer to thinking this is a good deal than I am closer to thinking it's not a good deal, but I'd really like to see us get another bat.

I agree, and I'm trying not to let the fact that we still don't have that bat yet impact what I think of this deal.

But if Hudson could have been flipped for a solid bat, I would have preferred that.

voodoochile
07-30-2010, 04:17 PM
worst thing---no, but potentially VERY bad thing considering the cash committment.......unless Sox are going to at the very least keep payroll where it is now next season or bump it 10 to 20 mildo

I would think they'll be fine next season cash wise. PK probably takes a paycut to come back or if he leaves they move Viciedo to first so that would be some money.

I expect payroll to go up next year anyway. They should be drawing great this summer and they might have playoff money to play with too. Plus they should do well with ST renewals and more sold due to the success of this season.

beasly213
07-30-2010, 04:18 PM
Hudson was always a fly ball pitcher.

Either way. That won't work at US Cellular.

voodoochile
07-30-2010, 04:19 PM
He doesn't have good command at this time, but I wouldn't be surprised if he gets it. It is a curious trade, however, Jackson throws 97 and Cooper loves him. If he can get him to throw strikes, I'm sure everyone will love this trade.

No it's simply unpossible that that could ever happen. I know because I've read post after post after post telling me so...

beasly213
07-30-2010, 04:19 PM
I would think they'll be fine next season cash wise. PK probably takes a paycut to come back or if he leaves they move Viciedo to first so that would be some money.

I expect payroll to go up next year anyway. They should be drawing great this summer and they might have playoff money to play with too. Plus they should do well with ST renewals and more sold due to the success of this season.


PK is having one of the best years of his career. No way he is taking a pay cut.

DirtySox
07-30-2010, 04:19 PM
Either way. That won't work at US Cellular.

Not all the Sox pitchers are ground ball pitchers. A good fly ball pitcher can do fine. Unfortunately we will never know if he would be successful at the Cell.

voodoochile
07-30-2010, 04:19 PM
Some people have an overvalued sense of Hudson's actual worth.

Maybe we should let the guy get a few innings under his belt as a member of the Sox before assuming this is the worst trade in Sox history.

Hudson is a proven workhorse,,,

beasly213
07-30-2010, 04:20 PM
Not all our pitchers are ground ball pitchers. A good fly ball pitcher can do fine.


What about Hudson made you think he was a good fly ball pitcher? His average stuff, or the fact that he walks a lot of guys?

FielderJones
07-30-2010, 04:21 PM
Hudson is a proven workhorse,,,

:roflmao:

Was that the Cubune or someone here speaking about McCarthy?

JoeyCora28
07-30-2010, 04:21 PM
Hudson is a proven workhorse,,,

Wow!! That brings back memories...

Nelfox02
07-30-2010, 04:21 PM
PK is having one of the best years of his career. No way he is taking a pay cut.


And the thought of Dayan at 1B scares the hell out of me......

Marqhead
07-30-2010, 04:22 PM
:roflmao:

Was that the Cubune or someone here speaking about McCarthy?

Cubune I believe, can't remember who.

voodoochile
07-30-2010, 04:22 PM
:roflmao:

Was that the Cubune or someone here speaking about McCarthy?

Yeah, Phil Rogers, IIRC...

DirtySox
07-30-2010, 04:22 PM
What about Hudson made you think he was a good fly ball pitcher? His average stuff, or the fact that he walks a lot of guys?

Probably the track record he has in the minors. You know where he struck out tons, and didn't walk many. Results and such. I don't write off young rookie ballplayers after they had a few rough starts.

Ex-Chicagoan
07-30-2010, 04:22 PM
threw "the ugliest" NO HITTER in MLB history...

We got Dock Ellis?

KenBerryGrab
07-30-2010, 04:23 PM
Hudson is a proven workhorse,,,

I hope that doesn't mean he'll start popping stress fractures....

voodoochile
07-30-2010, 04:24 PM
We got Dock Ellis?

Yeah, And Kenny's gonna moor his yacht there...:tongue:

KRS1
07-30-2010, 04:25 PM
What about Hudson made you think he was a good fly ball pitcher? His average stuff, or the fact that he walks a lot of guys?


Average stuff? 92-95 with your fastball with good movement is not average and I love his change. Also, he didn't walk anything close to a ton of guys in the minors and being a bit nibbly in your first few pro starts is nothing out of the ordinary.

Hitmen77
07-30-2010, 04:27 PM
I would think they'll be fine next season cash wise. PK probably takes a paycut to come back or if he leaves they move Viciedo to first so that would be some money.

I expect payroll to go up next year anyway. They should be drawing great this summer and they might have playoff money to play with too. Plus they should do well with ST renewals and more sold due to the success of this season.

Any savings by a PK pay cut would quickly be gobbled up by raises due to Danks and Quentin. Plus Rios and Floyd each get a $2.25 mil raise. Peavy get another $1 mil. and so does Teahen.

PhillipsBubba
07-30-2010, 04:28 PM
Really?

Really?

Yes, really.

He gave up two pitchers that figure to have better careers than Jackson. KW better have something else coming or he will be the laughingstock of the league.

All this talk about Cooper making him better and how Jackson will fit in next year...the WS are trying to win a pennant now...**** next year!

voodoochile
07-30-2010, 04:28 PM
Any savings by a PK pay cut would quickly be gobbled up by raises due to Danks and Quentin. Plus Rios and Floyd each get a $2.25 mil raise. Peavy get another $1 mil. and so does Teahen.

Then Viciedo it is...

Uncontested
07-30-2010, 04:28 PM
"Win Now" mentality is NOT going and getting freaking Edwin Jackson

"Win Now" would have been us getting Cliff Lee, Oswalt, Dan Haren, or even freaking Ted Lilly.

The Angels gave up less for Haren than we did for Jackson, FROM THE SAME TEAM for gods sake.

Hitmen77
07-30-2010, 04:28 PM
:roflmao:

Was that the Cubune or someone here speaking about McCarthy?

Phil Rogers at the Trib.

UofCSoxFan
07-30-2010, 04:30 PM
Yes, really.

He gave up two pitchers that figure to have better careers than Jackson.

That is a HUGE leap.

Nelfox02
07-30-2010, 04:30 PM
Yes, really.

He gave up two pitchers that figure to have better careers than Jackson. KW better have something else coming or he will be the laughingstock of the league.

All this talk about Cooper making him better and how Jackson will fit in next year...the WS are trying to win a pennant now...**** next year!


agree, this deal in and of itself stinks

DirtySox
07-30-2010, 04:32 PM
Pssh. It's okay to overpay as long as we get the guy we want!

http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/210170411/ahlogowhitesox_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/InsideTheSox) InsideTheSox (http://twitter.com/InsideTheSox)
We don't have to win deals, KW said, we just have to get the guy we want, who fits here. #WhiteSox (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23WhiteSox)

:rolleyes:

DSpivack
07-30-2010, 04:33 PM
Yeah, And Kenny's gonna moor his yacht there...:tongue:

We got Dock Ellis?

Hey, it probably looked pretty funky to him.

TheOldRoman
07-30-2010, 04:34 PM
He gave up two pitchers that figure to have better careers than Jackson. KW better have something else coming or he will be the laughingstock of the league.http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweekly/jump%20to%20conclusions%20mat%202.jpg

guillensdisciple
07-30-2010, 04:34 PM
I seem to remember a lot of people ****ting their pants when we first got Freddy for the God that was Jeremy Reed and Miguel Olivo.

Sure ended horribly for us.


Kenny knows what he's doing.

UofCSoxFan
07-30-2010, 04:35 PM
KW speaking to the media right now....unfortunately score isn't covering it live.

voodoochile
07-30-2010, 04:36 PM
Pssh. It's okay to overpay as long as we get the guy we want!

http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/210170411/ahlogowhitesox_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/InsideTheSox) InsideTheSox (http://twitter.com/InsideTheSox)
We don't have to win deals, KW said, we just have to get the guy we want, who fits here. #WhiteSox (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23WhiteSox)

:rolleyes:

Well if a player works out, it doesn't really matter what you gave up. Hudson for Jackson is an okay trade on paper. The other pitcher is in A ball, so it's a total crapshoot whether he ever makes the majors in any capacity.

voodoochile
07-30-2010, 04:37 PM
Yes, really.

He gave up two pitchers that figure to have better careers than Jackson. KW better have something else coming or he will be the laughingstock of the league.

All this talk about Cooper making him better and how Jackson will fit in next year...the WS are trying to win a pennant now...**** next year!

And if Jackson works out does that make you the laughing stock of WSI? :dunno:

UofCSoxFan
07-30-2010, 04:37 PM
I seem to remember a lot of people ****ting their pants when we first got Freddy for the God that was Jeremy Reed and Miguel Olivo.

Sure ended horribly for us.


Kenny knows what he's doing.

Not to mention the McCarthy deal, the Carlos Lee deal, the Gavin Floyd deal...some people went nuts.

And as I type this some guy on the radio is arguing that the Sox should have kept Clayton Richard instead of getting Peavy...of course at the time Aaron Poreda was the can't miss prospect of the day.

TheOldRoman
07-30-2010, 04:37 PM
Well if a player works out, it doesn't really matter what you gave up. Hudson for Jackson is an okay trade on paper. The other pitcher is in A ball, so it's a total crapshoot whether he ever makes the majors in any capacity.Yeah, but that A ball pitcher "figures to have a better career than Jackson." Just you wait and see.

voodoochile
07-30-2010, 04:38 PM
Yeah, but I have concludedd definitively that the A ball pitcher is going to have a better career than Jackson. Just you wait and see.

So his name is DLS? (Sorry, Munch, couldn't resist) :tongue:

TheOldRoman
07-30-2010, 04:39 PM
And if Jackson works out does that make you the laughing stock of WSI? :dunno:I don't know, there are a lot of the people on the list ahead of him.:D:

rdwj
07-30-2010, 04:39 PM
Yes, really.

He gave up two pitchers that figure to have better careers than Jackson. KW better have something else coming or he will be the laughingstock of the league.

All this talk about Cooper making him better and how Jackson will fit in next year...the WS are trying to win a pennant now...**** next year!

I can just about guarantee you've never even heard of one of those guys and the other is projected to be pretty mediocre. You know we didn't trade Floyd and Danks, right?

fram40
07-30-2010, 04:39 PM
Yes, really.

He gave up two pitchers that figure to have better careers than Jackson. KW better have something else coming or he will be the laughingstock of the league.

All this talk about Cooper making him better and how Jackson will fit in next year...the WS are trying to win a pennant now...**** next year!

maybe they will have better careers. but my money - for the rest of this season - is on Jackson being the better pitcher than Hudson.

UofCSoxFan
07-30-2010, 04:40 PM
Pssh. It's okay to overpay as long as we get the guy we want!

http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/210170411/ahlogowhitesox_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/InsideTheSox) InsideTheSox (http://twitter.com/InsideTheSox)
We don't have to win deals, KW said, we just have to get the guy we want, who fits here. #WhiteSox (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23WhiteSox)

:rolleyes:

I don't really get the eye roll at all. What he's saying is just because you may lose a trade in a vacuum doesn't mean that you don't make the trade. Example: White Sox trade Carlos Lee for Scott Podsednick and Luis Vizcaino. No one would argue that in a vacuum the Sox won that deal. However, it gave them a quality reliever, a lead-off hitter, and freed up money to sign Dye and AJ. It won us the World Series, even though most would say we overpaid for Pods.

TheCQExperience
07-30-2010, 04:40 PM
"Win Now" mentality is NOT going and getting freaking Edwin Jackson

"Win Now" would have been us getting Cliff Lee, Oswalt, Dan Haren, or even freaking Ted Lilly.

The Angels gave up less for Haren than we did for Jackson, FROM THE SAME TEAM for gods sake.

People have to stop making the Dan Haren comparison. Daniel Hudson is NOT EQUAL to Joe Saunders. He may be as good or better one day, but as of now Saunders is a much more major league ready pitcher. And that's what teams are looking for those type of players right now. That's why the Astros got Happ from the Phillies. They want someone they can rely on. Daniel Hudson is not yet that pitcher.

DirtySox
07-30-2010, 04:41 PM
Well if a player works out, it doesn't really matter what you gave up. Hudson for Jackson is an okay trade on paper. The other pitcher is in A ball, so it's a total crapshoot whether he ever makes the majors in any capacity.

I have no problem with giving up Holmberg. I would like this deal more if Arizona was paying for some of that $8.3 million next year.

TheOldRoman
07-30-2010, 04:42 PM
And so ends my least productive day at work ever. I am ashamed of myself. See you guys later.

UofCSoxFan
07-30-2010, 04:43 PM
And so ends my least productive day at work ever. I am ashamed of myself. See you guys later.

I have to work tomorrow because of today.

Harry Potter
07-30-2010, 04:45 PM
I have to work tomorrow because of today.

Sadly, same here

Coops4Aces
07-30-2010, 04:46 PM
Listen people, you shouldn't confuse quiet with inactivity. :redneck

pudge
07-30-2010, 04:48 PM
I have to admit, I never saw the McCarthy/Danks trade turning out the way it did. I think I am more surprised that McCarthy has been as fragile/mediocre than by Danks' success.

Kinda like Jon Rauch?

What is your opinion of Hudson in comparison?

hawkjt
07-30-2010, 04:49 PM
Is Jackson better than Hudson? If so, and we win the division by a game, then Kenny is saying that he was the right guy. It all comes down to Jackson being good enough to help us win the division.

I am reserving judgement til tomorrow afternoon,then til after the season. Jackson has the 4th rated fastball in the MLB only behind Verlander,Jock Johnson and Jiminez...at an average of over 94mph.

UofCSoxFan
07-30-2010, 04:49 PM
Listen people, you shouldn't confuse quiet with inactivity. :redneck

Is Cowley talking about himself or the White Sox? My gut tells me Cowley's been passed out on a sofa with a slice of pizza on his stomach for the past 6 hours.

oeo
07-30-2010, 04:50 PM
Definitely an overpayment as it stands right now and I'm not real happy about it. However, this reminds me a lot of the Gavin trade. Everyone thought we were fleeced, but we ended up getting a guy that turned his career around.

I know it's not quite the same because of the players we gave up in each one, but the reaction is spot on. Going to have be cautiously optimistic that Coop knows what's wrong with Jackson because we have no other choice.

UofCSoxFan
07-30-2010, 04:50 PM
Kinda like Jon Rauch?



The same Joh Rauch that has been so bad lately that he forced his club to trade one its top prospects for Matt Capps?

CWSpalehoseCWS
07-30-2010, 04:53 PM
Definitely an overpayment as it stands right now and I'm not real happy about it. However, this reminds me a lot of the Gavin trade. Everyone thought we were fleeced, but we ended up getting a guy that turned his career around.

I know it's not quite the same because of the players we gave up in each one, but the reaction is spot on.

Hopefully that happens. I don't want to use the "Coop can fix him" response, but hopefully he knows something about him, like he did with Thornton. He has great stuff and the potential is there.

pudge
07-30-2010, 04:53 PM
The same Joh Rauch that has been so bad lately that he forced his club to trade one its top prospects for Matt Capps?

That was my point, everyone was in love with Jon Rauch, thought he was the savior and the reason we didn't need a veteran starter in 2003.

Coops4Aces
07-30-2010, 04:53 PM
Is Cowley talking about himself or the White Sox? My gut tells me Cowley's been passed out on a sofa with a slice of pizza on his stomach for the past 6 hours.

:rolling::rolling::rolling:

omg I'm dying over here. Thanks for that bro

oeo
07-30-2010, 04:54 PM
Hopefully that happens. I don't want to use the "Coop can fix him" response, but hopefully he knows something about him, like he did with Thornton. He has great stuff and the potential is there.

Garfien tweeted that Kenny said there is only one thing they need to fix in his mechanics. Cowley also tweeted earlier that Coop likes Jackson. Sounds similar to the Thornton situation where Coop saw a flaw from the outside and let Kenny know he could make him into a stud.

Jackson very well could meet his potential here. Whole problem is we gave up a lot for a guy who is a project and owed over $8 million next year.

Rockabilly
07-30-2010, 04:54 PM
Cowley will be on WSCR in a few mins

SephClone89
07-30-2010, 04:56 PM
Definitely an overpayment as it stands right now and I'm not real happy about it. However, this reminds me a lot of the Gavin trade. Everyone thought we were fleeced, but we ended up getting a guy that turned his career around.

I know it's not quite the same because of the players we gave up in each one, but the reaction is spot on. Going to have be cautiously optimistic that Coop knows what's wrong with Jackson because we have no other choice.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=82009

sox1970
07-30-2010, 04:56 PM
Jackson will start Wednesday in Detroit....unless.

harwar
07-30-2010, 04:57 PM
Rizzo was just on MLB network .. just said how much they love Dunn and that 3 teams are interested .. nothing new but wow did he look awful .. stressful times for those guys

kravdog
07-30-2010, 05:02 PM
Here's my question:

Why did we have to make this trade today? I mean, why not start Hudson tonight, then trade him tomorrow? Its not like a ****ty performance tonight would have diminished his trade value when trading for Jackson.

Just seems a bit silly to have Harrell make his MLB debut instead of just trading Hudson tomorrow, especially when we are only up by 1.5 games.

UofCSoxFan
07-30-2010, 05:04 PM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=82009

People bringing up the Josh Fogg / Kip Wels for Todd Ritchie trade in that thread as an example of where we were fleeced....the more things change, the more the stay the same.

Rockabilly
07-30-2010, 05:04 PM
Kenny wanted a pitcher that could go 6 or 7 innings. He probably didn't believe Hudson could.

CWSpalehoseCWS
07-30-2010, 05:06 PM
Garfien tweeted that Kenny said there is only one thing they need to fix in his mechanics. Cowley also tweeted earlier that Coop likes Jackson. Sounds similar to the Thornton situation where Coop saw a flaw from the outside and let Kenny know he could make him into a stud.

Jackson very well could meet his potential here. Whole problem is we gave up a lot for a guy who is a project and owed over $8 million next year.

Good to here. Must have missed that somewhere in all these posts, lol.

ndgt10
07-30-2010, 05:13 PM
So no bat?

Hitmen77
07-30-2010, 05:14 PM
Hudson is a proven workhorse,,,

Speaking of whom.....

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/07/rogers-minus-dunn-trading-hudson-a-bad-move.html

Pablo_Honey
07-30-2010, 05:27 PM
I've been thinking about this trade while walking my dog and here's what I've done in the meantime:

I stopped overvaluing Hudson. He is just a piece of **** prospect.
I stopped overvaluing Holmberg. He is just a ****ing hot garbage.
I stopped looking at Jackson's numbers. He's got good stuff.
I stopped caring about Jackon's control issues. Coop'll fix'em.
I stopped worrying about Jackson's salary. JR pays for that.

...and still I can't see how this trade benefits in the short term or the long term. I just can't. Call me a ****ing drama queen, call this a knee-jerk reaction, laugh at me for not seeing the ultimate truth, boo at me for doubting Kenny when he's proven us wrong so many ****ing times. I just ****ing can't. I can't. Sorry, just had to get that out of the way.

Lillian
07-30-2010, 05:29 PM
I've been thinking about this trade while walking my dog and here's what I've done in the meantime:

I stopped overvaluing Hudson. He is just a piece of **** prospect.
I stopped overvaluing Holmberg. He is just a ****ing hot garbage.
I stopped looking at Jackson's numbers. He's got good stuff.
I stopped caring about Jackon's control issues. Coop'll fix'em.
I stopped worrying about Jackson's salary. JR pays for that.

...and still I can't see how this trade benefits in the short term or the long term. I just can't. Call me a ****ing drama queen, call this a knee-jerk reaction, laugh at me for not seeing the ultimate truth, boo at me for doubting Kenny when he's proven us wrong so many ****ing times. I just ****ing can't. I can't. Sorry, just had to get that out of the way.


Great post. And that's why I continue to believe that Jackson on his way to Washingtion.

TheCQExperience
07-30-2010, 05:33 PM
I'm moving next week and this day has absolutely ruined my day of packing. :popcorn:

Coops4Aces
07-30-2010, 05:40 PM
I have been following Twitter all day and have come to the realization that Jon Heyman's source is Ken Rosenthal.

CanBuehrleWait
07-30-2010, 05:46 PM
Sorry just cant over react to this like a lot of people are. Traded 2 prospects for a guy who has at least shown in the majors he could have a stellar season. Hudson is still an unknown. It is that old argument. How many of the prospects Kenny has traded(save Clayton Richard) have panned out? Floyd was pretty awful in Philadelphia until he came here. The one thing I am sure of is Kenny knows this organization better then anyone on this board. Ill put my trust in him and Cooper and reserve the right to lay into them later if deserved.

hawkjt
07-30-2010, 05:51 PM
I am taking the wait and see approach...but positives are:

Jackson has the 4th highest velocity fastball in MLB according to fangraphs.
Jackson has upped his groundball percentage from 39 to 51% this year in Az,which is important in a bandbox like Soxpark.
Kenny claims that they think there is a mechanical fix that can help Jackson quickly.
Jackson provided insurance for next year if Jake does not recover.
Jackson is better than Hudson this year,when we are in the hunt.

I wanted to stand pat myself,but I do trust Kenny and Coop on assessing pitchers,and I was not all that comfortable with Hudson. If we made a move,I wanted it to be for a 5th starter,and we did that,so I will reserve judegement on this deal til we see how the season unfolds.

Nelfox02
07-30-2010, 05:52 PM
I've been thinking about this trade while walking my dog and here's what I've done in the meantime:

I stopped overvaluing Hudson. He is just a piece of **** prospect.
I stopped overvaluing Holmberg. He is just a ****ing hot garbage.
I stopped looking at Jackson's numbers. He's got good stuff.
I stopped caring about Jackon's control issues. Coop'll fix'em.
I stopped worrying about Jackson's salary. JR pays for that.

...and still I can't see how this trade benefits in the short term or the long term. I just can't. Call me a ****ing drama queen, call this a knee-jerk reaction, laugh at me for not seeing the ultimate truth, boo at me for doubting Kenny when he's proven us wrong so many ****ing times. I just ****ing can't. I can't. Sorry, just had to get that out of the way.

yep---the more you think it over the more this move just doesnt work. I think nearly everywhere on this board agrees that the we needed to make a trade (either a solid bat or a middle of the rotation starter) to be considered at best underdog contenders for a pennant this year......Edwin Jackson? not only does that move not put us over top this year, it could very well limit our ability to make this team better in 2011

this trade just plain sucks as a stand alone move......

**** really hits the fan if the Twins are not done with Capps and find a way to add a solid piece (Lilly if he waives that no trade? thank god oswalt not going there)

Domeshot17
07-30-2010, 05:55 PM
I think my biggest thing with this trade, if we keep Edwin, I like him for 2011. However, he does not make us a World Series Contender. Him plus a bat, even as little as Laroche, might. But without the addition of a lefty hitter, Jackson will have little impact in the playoffs.

Tragg
07-30-2010, 05:59 PM
There's no need to give a sarcastic Kenny comment. Kenny has done wonders in trades.

Really? Name a positive trade he's made since the Quentin trade.
We could have gotten Jackson for far less. We could have gotten much mote for Hudson.
Next year well have 3 kotsays covering all of the impending holes on this team.

Another thing that stinks about this trade is that it was with Arizona again.

CWSpalehoseCWS
07-30-2010, 05:59 PM
I think my biggest thing with this trade, if we keep Edwin, I like him for 2011. However, he does not make us a World Series Contender. Him plus a bat, even as little as Laroche, might. But without the addition of a lefty hitter, Jackson will have little impact in the playoffs.

Yep. I think it's safe to say he's off to the pen if the Sox make it to the playoffs. If Coop really can tweek him to be better than he has been, that the starting staff looks pretty good for next year, especially if Peavy has no setbacks.

The Immigrant
07-30-2010, 06:02 PM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=82009

Wow. Just...wow.

FireMariotti
07-30-2010, 06:12 PM
This is not the same as the Floyd trade considering the team's situation then and now. When we dealt Freddy and Gio for Floyd, it was because the season was lost and we were looking towards the future. We are in a win now mode, and bringing a guy in with hopes of turning him around for the next season is not what should be happening. I'll hold off until 3pm tomorrow to see if anything more comes of this before flying off the handle. There has to be more to this deal right? Right?

oeo
07-30-2010, 06:23 PM
This is not the same as the Floyd trade considering the team's situation then and now. When we dealt Freddy and Gio for Floyd, it was because the season was lost and we were looking towards the future. We are in a win now mode, and bringing a guy in with hopes of turning him around for the next season is not what should be happening. I'll hold off until 3pm tomorrow to see if anything more comes of this before flying off the handle. There has to be more to this deal right? Right?

We traded Freddy in December of 2006. We were not in 'win now' mode? We won a World Series in 2005 and had an extremely disappointing finish to 2006.

Look, I pointed out that things were not exactly the same, but there are a lot of similarities. Namely, we're getting a high-ceiling pitcher that no one likes. Coop is really excited, apparently, and feels confident he can make Jackson into more than a #5 starter this year.

thedudeabides
07-30-2010, 06:25 PM
Speaking of whom.....

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/07/rogers-minus-dunn-trading-hudson-a-bad-move.html

Phil never disappoints. So, now the Sox traded away Jared Weaver. :tongue:

Chez
07-30-2010, 06:28 PM
Wow. Just...wow.

Beautiful. Thanks for posting. Reading that thread made me laugh and reinforced just how little true insight many posters who consider themselves experts truly have.

CanBuehrleWait
07-30-2010, 06:31 PM
Beautiful. Thanks for posting. Reading that thread made me laugh and reinforced just how little true insight many posters who consider themselves experts truly have.

Agreed

Slappy
07-30-2010, 06:33 PM
Phil never disappoints. So, now the Sox traded away Jared Weaver. :tongue:

Like I said, he does have a similar delivery. :D: But Hudson doesn't have the velocity, presence or stuff that Weaver has.

slavko
07-30-2010, 06:34 PM
Betcha a lemon cookie that Jackson is here to stay.

Crede24Thome25
07-30-2010, 06:35 PM
I'm in love with this deal, screw Dunn, of course I don't mean it but hey, we have 15+ hrs left.

Slappy
07-30-2010, 06:36 PM
I could go for a lemon cookie right now, but it's too bad I agree with you.

Domeshot17
07-30-2010, 06:37 PM
FYI Berkman veto'd a trade here according to Bob Nightingales Twitter

DirtySox
07-30-2010, 06:39 PM
FYI Berkman veto'd a trade here according to Bob Nightingales Twitter

http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/318621659/bobs_twittericon_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/BNightengale) BNightengale (http://twitter.com/BNightengale)
#mlb (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23mlb) Curiously, Lance Berkman had recently exercised his no-trade rights for possible deal with White Sox before accepting Yankees' trade. 7 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/BNightengale/status/19947130744) via web

SephClone89
07-30-2010, 06:44 PM
http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/318621659/bobs_twittericon_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/BNightengale) BNightengale (http://twitter.com/BNightengale)
#mlb (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23mlb) Curiously, Lance Berkman had recently exercised his no-trade rights for possible deal with White Sox before accepting Yankees' trade. 7 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/BNightengale/status/19947130744) via web

Bitter over '05.

GoGoCrede
07-30-2010, 06:44 PM
Just got home...longest shift ever. I'm dying for news. Thank God I'll be home tomorrow!

In 10 words or less, can someone recap me? Anything new happen?

DirtySox
07-30-2010, 06:46 PM
Just got home...longest shift ever. I'm dying for news. Thank God I'll be home tomorrow!

In 10 words or less, can someone recap me? Anything new happen?

Jackson might be here to stay. Dunn's asking price is still high. Berkman vetoed a trade here before going to the Yanks.

22 words.

Slappy
07-30-2010, 06:46 PM
Jackson in, Hudson and some other guy out.

GoGoCrede
07-30-2010, 06:46 PM
Jackson might be here to stay. Dunn's asking price is still high. Berkman vetoed a trade here before going to NY.

Thank you, kind sir! I wonder why Berkman didn't want to come here. Man, we still have another day of this.

SephClone89
07-30-2010, 06:47 PM
Jackson might be here to stay. Dunn's asking price is still high. Berkman vetoed a trade here before going to the Yanks.

22 words.

That's the best you can do?

"Jackson might stay. Dunn too expensive. Berkman vetoed."

:tongue:

Slappy
07-30-2010, 06:47 PM
Thank you, kind sir! I wonder why Berkman didn't want to come here. Man, we still have another day of this.

Yeah I wonder why...

LOL

21stcenturySox
07-30-2010, 06:48 PM
Bitter over '05.

Was thinking the same thing, but then Pettitte is with the Yanks and may have affected his decision.

voodoochile
07-30-2010, 06:49 PM
Jackson in, Hudson and some other guy out.

WSI unhappy...

I know that makes 12 words, but sometimes you got to push the envelope...

GoGoCrede
07-30-2010, 06:51 PM
WSI unhappy...

I know that makes 12 words, but sometimes you got to push the envelope...

I can't wait to go back and read this thread later. Was it :popcorn: -worthy? Trade threads usually are.

SoxGirl4Life
07-30-2010, 06:53 PM
I can't wait to go back and read this thread later. Was it :popcorn: -worthy? Trade threads usually are.

Some people don't like Jackson. Some think he'll fit in good and Coop'll fix him. And still another contingent think we're flipping him for a bat. Not really popcorn worthy..lol

voodoochile
07-30-2010, 06:54 PM
I can't wait to go back and read this thread later. Was it :popcorn: -worthy? Trade threads usually are.

The usual post trade crap. Some people are unhappy. Some people are happy. Some people are wait an see. Some of the unhappy posts have been pretty decent, but nothing out of the ordinary.

Crede24Thome25
07-30-2010, 06:58 PM
Did anyone else hear about how Coop watched some video of Jackson last night and started jumping up and down after he spotted the flaw in his mechanics?

whitesox4eva
07-30-2010, 06:59 PM
Did anyone else hear about how Coop watched some video of Jackson last night and started jumping up and down after he spotted the flaw in his mechanics?

Where did you hear this?

Crede24Thome25
07-30-2010, 07:04 PM
Where did you hear this?
Chuck Garfein on sports night

fox23
07-30-2010, 07:06 PM
Did anyone else hear about how Coop watched some video of Jackson last night and started jumping up and down after he spotted the flaw in his mechanics?

No way that can be true. Coop doesn't look like the sort of guy who jumps up a whole lot anymore.

theamb
07-30-2010, 07:08 PM
Yeah I wonder why...

LOL

Yankees > Us :dunno:

I still think Kenny will try to swap Jackson + for a bat and then add a stop gap pitcher.

Otherwise, trading your supposed best prospect for an inconsistent bounce around doesn't make much sense.

Crede24Thome25
07-30-2010, 07:09 PM
No way that can be true. Coop doesn't look like the sort of guy who jumps up a whole lot anymore.
:rolling:, I guess we'll see if he was right on Tuesday.

rdwj
07-30-2010, 07:10 PM
Did anyone else hear about how Coop watched some video of Jackson last night and started jumping up and down after he spotted the flaw in his mechanics?

I SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO hope this is true