PDA

View Full Version : That's the season


NUKE_CLEVELAND
06-24-2002, 10:55 PM
Just when you think this team is capable of winning a big game, the Alien comes out & puts the hex on us & that's all she wrote. This is getting stupid! Now we're gonna get swept because if we were low coming in , we're really fu(ked now.

duke of dorwood
06-24-2002, 10:57 PM
And they gave us 3 unearned runs-that aint gonna happen again.

Those 2 baserunning blunders must not have been discussed in the meeting

DrCrawdad
06-24-2002, 11:04 PM
This team has no heart, no desire. When the Sox play the Twins (or many other teams now) you just know the Sox are going to find some way to lose.

The defense sucks.
The relievers have been bad lately.
The offense doesn't come through.

It's over. The Sox will lose three of four. Hopefully the Sox can come away with 2 of 3 against the Cubs, so that we can maintain some dignity as fans but even that is uncertain.

MattSharp
06-24-2002, 11:09 PM
Yea its over. Lets start he house cleaning. Good bye Ray, Lofton, Lee, Royce, and whoever else we can dump.....

FanOf14
06-24-2002, 11:15 PM
I ask that we hold Konerko and Buehrle and Garland and Wright - Auf Wiedersehn to the rest!

HawkDJ
06-24-2002, 11:24 PM
Can't say I couldn't see that coming today.

Procol Harum
06-24-2002, 11:46 PM
Somebody should run an over and under pool on Sox attendance for the rest of the season--who's gonna come out to watch this disgusting mess of a team from a disgrace of an organization??? Unless something changes quick I bet we finish down in the 1.3/1.4 million area.

TornLabrum
06-25-2002, 12:00 AM
I ask that we hold Konerko and Buehrle and Garland and Wright - Auf Wiedersehn to the rest!

The problem is that knowing Lenny, those are the guys he'd probably trade and manage to get a sack full of feces for. :angry:

Nellie_Fox
06-25-2002, 01:28 AM
Originally posted by Procol Harum
Unless something changes quick I bet we finish down in the 1.3/1.4 million area. I'm so old, I remember when that was considered good attendance in MLB.

CubKilla
06-25-2002, 02:59 AM
I'm a diehard Sox fan so I'll probably go to more games this season but, unless the Sox go on a 20 game win streak, it'll be like going to a wake everytime. No enthusiasm, no reason to cheer, no reason to really care even. If the Management doesn't care, why should the fans. This sucks that I feel this way but I can't help it. I'm so disappointed with this team right now. No heart at all (except for Konerko and Buehrle). And when, for Chrissakes, are heads gonna start to roll in this Organization?

PaleHoseGeorge
06-25-2002, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
I'm so old, I remember when that was considered good attendance in MLB.

I remember what a big deal it was back in 1977 when the Sox drew 1.6 million fans. That set the all-time franchise record.

Times have changed.

hold2dibber
06-25-2002, 09:54 AM
Originally posted by CubKilla
I'm a diehard Sox fan so I'll probably go to more games this season but, unless the Sox go on a 20 game win streak, it'll be like going to a wake everytime. No enthusiasm, no reason to cheer, no reason to really care even. If the Management doesn't care, why should the fans. This sucks that I feel this way but I can't help it. I'm so disappointed with this team right now. No heart at all (except for Konerko and Buehrle). And when, for Chrissakes, are heads gonna start to roll in this Organization?

I don't think it's true that management doesn't care. I honestly believe that JR and KW want to win. Why wouldn't they? If they didn't, why did JR sign Albert Belle, why did KW trade for David Wells? They have made a TON of bad decisions, but I don't think it's from lack of wanting to win. If only wanting to win meant a damn thing.

I'll also throw in that I think that Graffanino, Valentin, Biddle, Garland, and Lofton have heart; unfortunately, heart alone doesn't mean a damn thing (and there are a lot of guys on this team with no heart at all -- i.e., Clayton, Lee, Durham).

Iwritecode
06-25-2002, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
I don't think it's true that management doesn't care. I honestly believe that JR and KW want to win. Why wouldn't they? If they didn't, why did JR sign Albert Belle, why did KW trade for David Wells? They have made a TON of bad decisions, but I don't think it's from lack of wanting to win. If only wanting to win meant a damn thing.

I want to agree with you. I really do. But I honestly believe that JR is a businessman first and a sportsman last. I believe his motto is "It doesn't matter if we win or lose, how much money did I make?" He brings in a few big name players every 5 years or so to try and get the attendance up a little (i.e. more people spending money). The one thing that doesn't make sense is that if this team every did win the WS, JR would get more money that any of the past years. Even if they were consistent contenders and won a pennant or two every few years it would help. The biggest problem with that is that JR would have to spend money first. And by spending money he might take the risk of losing it. And we all know that just can't happen. So he just sits back with the low payroll he has and the little clause that says he'll get paid if the attendance doesn't meet a certain number and lets the fans suffer.

Soxheads
06-25-2002, 10:55 AM
I'm not going to say it's over. Believe it or not, this season isn't even halfway through. I've seen too many crazy things happen this year. Hell, I'm not even concerned about the playoff race til the trade deadline. Not to say that I don't care that the Sox are seven games back, but that dosen't mean they're out. They could come back and win the next three, and take two out of three against the Scrubs, and be three or four games games out. Maybe it's my boyish optimism showing through, but I think we are a long ways from done.

CubKilla
06-25-2002, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by hold2dibber


I don't think it's true that management doesn't care. I honestly believe that JR and KW want to win. Why wouldn't they? If they didn't, why did JR sign Albert Belle, why did KW trade for David Wells? They have made a TON of bad decisions, but I don't think it's from lack of wanting to win. If only wanting to win meant a damn thing.

I'll also throw in that I think that Graffanino, Valentin, Biddle, Garland, and Lofton have heart; unfortunately, heart alone doesn't mean a damn thing (and there are a lot of guys on this team with no heart at all -- i.e., Clayton, Lee, Durham).

I agree with that argument..... somewhat. But if management REALLY cared, don't you think they'd attempt to do something to help this team? Deal for a starting pitcher, demote a player who's not performing, try to bring in another stick, SOMETHING? All this team has done is bench ONE player "longterm." And unless one week is "longterm," this team has done absolutely NOTHING to try to stem the tide of losing. And I agree with "Code." I think JR values the almighty dollar over W's and L's. If he didn't, he'd have shown us SOMETHING by now. But then again, Sox fans are not (and probably won't now) showing up at Comiskey Park so it is all OUR fault. Chicago..... Home of Sports ABSOLUTE WORST owners.

Soxheads
06-25-2002, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by CubKilla

. But then again, Sox fans are not (and probably won't now) showing up at Comiskey Park so it is all OUR fault.

Back the train up there. OUR fault?

Iwritecode
06-25-2002, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by Soxheads
Back the train up there. OUR fault?

If you ask managment, yes. They lump all the fans together when placing blame. Even the ones that show up...

TornLabrum
06-25-2002, 11:12 AM
:wills

"Let's be honest about this. Jerry Reinsdorf isn't in the business to lose money."

Paulwny
06-25-2002, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by CubKilla

Deal for a starting pitcher,

With the exception of Konerko, Maggs, Buerhle, do you honestly thing a gm will trade a good starting pitcher for anyone else on this team?
To get a good/great starting pitcher JR will have to open his wallet and sign a FA but, we all know how JR feels about giving long term contracts to pitchers.

Soxheads
06-25-2002, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by Iwritecode


If you ask managment, yes. They lump all the fans together when placing blame. Even the ones that show up...

Hell, if I could, I'd be at every Sox game possible. My favorite birthday present ever was when my dad got us on a charter bus to a Sox game. It's jut for a lot of us, going to a lot of games isn't really possible.

hold2dibber
06-25-2002, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by Paulwny


With the exception of Konerko, Maggs, Buerhle, do you honestly thing a gm will trade a good starting pitcher for anyone else on this team?
To get a good/great starting pitcher JR will have to open his wallet and sign a FA but, we all know how JR feels about giving long term contracts to pitchers.

Actually, yes, I think quality starting pitchers are available in trade, and I don't think it would necessarily take Konerko, Maggs, Buehrle, Garland, Borchard or Crede to get one. There are lots of examples out there -- the Cubs got Clement (who has been very solid) (and Alfonseca) for crap, they got Lieber for Brant Brown (I think), the Dodgers (remember Dan Evans?) picked up Omar Daal for next to nothing, the Orioles picked up that Lopez guy from the Mexico City Tomato Growers (seriously) for nothing, and on and on. However, the Sox are restricted by the following:

(1) Our GM is not good at trading/evaluating talent; and
(2) Our pitching coach is not good at coaching pitching.

Consequently, it is hard for us to find a "diamond in the rough," whereas other teams with better run organizations and more talented people running the show can find effective starting pitchers outside of the free agent market (and when you think about it, how many good free agent pitcher signings have there been lately -- Chan Ho Park? Aaron Sele? Mike Hampton?) I personally don't think free agency is the best way to build a pitching staff, except in rare circumstances (e.g., when Mike Mussina or Randy Johnson is available).

Paulwny
06-25-2002, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by hold2dibber

Actually, yes, I think quality starting pitchers are available in trade, and I don't think it would necessarily take Konerko, Maggs, Buehrle, Garland, Borchard or Crede to get one. There are lots of examples out there -- the Cubs got Clement (who has been very solid) (and Alfonseca) for crap, they got Lieber for Brant Brown (I think), the Dodgers (remember Dan Evans?) picked up Omar Daal for next to nothing, the Orioles picked up that Lopez guy from the Mexico City Tomato Growers (seriously) for nothing, and on and on. ).

Good points but, would JR ever agree to a trade where the pitcher already has a long term contact.

Here' my take:
Durham- fa at the end of the year, numbers keep dropping, has a large contract > $4 mil, probably not tradeable
Clayton-- never
Valentine- aging vet, lifetime .260 hitter, no "D",
Graff- lifetime bench player
Alomar- career is over
Johnson-- good back-up catcher
Lofton- Aging vet, continuous ham string problems, career may be over
A gm looking to rebuild a team won't want these players.

Possibly Frank is tradeable for a starter., or package Lee (still young). Leifer, and a reliever. Maybe, just maybe.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-25-2002, 12:06 PM
When evaluating Reinsdorf, I think the key word to consider is "WANTS" to win a championship.

Sure, JR "wants" to win a championship. I "want" my kids to live full and happy lives. I "want" to retire comfortably. If I could do it without cheating, stealing, and or breaking the law, I "want" a 100 million dollars.

It's what you "DO" in this life that counts. I do plenty to make sure my kids live full and happy lives. I do plenty to make sure I retire comfortably. If I could ever figure out a way to make 100 million dollars without cheating, stealing, or breaking the law, I would do that, too.

Reinsdorf only "wants" to win a championship on his own terms. Nevermind in 21 years of ownership, he has exactly three lousy playoff wins to show for the effort. Forget about pennants or world championships. He'll never get there.

If Jerry Reinsdorf is the best owner in Chicago, then he is truly the world's tallest midget.

Get him out of here! Not for our benefit, but for the viability of the franchise. It clearly is in worse shape now than it was in 1980 when Ed Debartolo offered to spend a fortune turning the Sox around.

We got Reinsdorf instead. Typical Sox Fan luck.

hold2dibber
06-25-2002, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
When evaluating Reinsdorf, I think the key word to consider is "WANTS" to win a championship.

Sure, JR "wants" to win a championship. I "want" my kids to live full and happy lives. I "want" to retire comfortably. If I could do it without cheating, stealing, and or breaking the law, I "want" a 100 million dollars.

It's what you "DO" in this life that counts. I do plenty to make sure my kids live full and happy lives. I do plenty to make sure I retire comfortably. If I could ever figure out a way to make 100 million dollars without cheating, stealing, or breaking the law, I would do that, too.

Reinsdorf only "wants" to win a championship on his own terms. Nevermind in 21 years of ownership, he has exactly three lousy playoff wins to show for the effort. Forget about pennants or world championships. He'll never get there.

If Jerry Reinsdorf is the best owner in Chicago, then he is truly the world's tallest midget.

Get him out of here! Not for our benefit, but for the viability of the franchise. It clearly is in worse shape now than it was in 1980 when Ed Debartolo offered to spend a fortune turning the Sox around.

We got Reinsdorf instead. Typical Sox Fan luck.

All excellent points. The Reinsdorf for Debartolo deal may be the worst trade in Sox history (at least until Josh Fogg is inducted into the HOF)! But does anyone have any reason to think that Reinsdorf and his cronies have any intention of selling the team at any time in the foreseeable future? I agree that fresh new ownership is badly needed and would be the quickest means of turning around the fortunes of the franchise. But I just don't see it happening. Please, someone, tell me you have reason to believe otherwise!

Daver
06-25-2002, 12:27 PM
For the record,Debartolo was turned down as an owner by the rest of the owners,the reason at the time was doubt that he could actually afford to run the team,and because of his questionable business tactics.

Paulwny
06-25-2002, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by daver
For the record,Debartolo was turned down as an owner by the rest of the owners,the reason at the time was doubt that he could actually afford to run the team,and because of his questionable business tactics.


Didn't he also have some friends who were in the gambling business, or is that what you meant by " questionable business tactic" ?

Daver
06-25-2002, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny



Didn't he also have some friends who were in the gambling business, or is that what you meant by " questionable business tactic" ?

One of his silent partners was a member of a certain prominent italian family.........

raul12
06-25-2002, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by daver


One of his silent partners was a member of a certain prominent italian family.........

I'm shocked!
:bundy
in your best mark hammill voice...."that's impossible!"

Iwritecode
06-25-2002, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by daver One of his silent partners was a member of a certain prominent italian family.........

:sopranos

Youz got a problem with dat?


It might not have been that bad. Can any of them pitch???

Moses_Scurry
06-25-2002, 01:07 PM
Early in the season, I was going to every game. I believe I've been to 18 or 19 this year. I now have no desire to go to anymore because of how they are playing. The experience of being at Comiskey does not outweigh the poor quality of play for me. Why subject myself to the torture? I can cook brats and watch the games on TV at home for much less. Plus, when they fall behind by a run after the 6th inning, I can change the channel or go outside and do something. I don't have to witness the 7th, 8th, and 9th inning. I probably won't go to more than a handful of games for the rest of the season unless the team turns it around. It's not worth making the trip.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-25-2002, 02:24 PM
We're talking about the same Ed Debartolo who turned the 49ers into an NFL dynasty, while simultaneously bankrolling his kid who "owned" the Pittsburgh Penguins during the championship glory years of Mario Lemieux--the only period in that franchise's history of being anything but a doormat.

The story the owners used for rejecting Debartolo was his "racing interests". Even back then, the media called their bluff, noting that the Galbreaths of Pittsburgh owned numerous tracks, as did (and still does) George Steinbrenner.

There were open calls charging MLB with ethnic discrimination. If you think it's far-fetched, consider how the owners did everything they could to keep Nintendo from buying the Mariners in the early-90's. That was outrageous behavior.

Instead of being afraid of Japanese ownership, maybe they were simply afraid of competing with another mega-corporation for signing talent? The Mariners went from "small market" to "big market" in a matter of a few years, LOL!!!

There is no doubt in my mind the Sox would be AT LEAST as well off with Debartolo as owner rather than Reinsdorf. He offered Veeck the same $20 million nearly a full year before JR did. Only the other owners prevented the sale.

Clarkdog
06-25-2002, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
When evaluating Reinsdorf, I think the key word to consider is "WANTS" to win a championship.

Sure, JR "wants" to win a championship. I "want" my kids to live full and happy lives. I "want" to retire comfortably. If I could do it without cheating, stealing, and or breaking the law, I "want" a 100 million dollars.

It's what you "DO" in this life that counts. I do plenty to make sure my kids live full and happy lives. I do plenty to make sure I retire comfortably. If I could ever figure out a way to make 100 million dollars without cheating, stealing, or breaking the law, I would do that, too.

Reinsdorf only "wants" to win a championship on his own terms. Nevermind in 21 years of ownership, he has exactly three lousy playoff wins to show for the effort. Forget about pennants or world championships. He'll never get there.


PHG, you are absolutely right.

Reinsdorf wants reward without taking risk. I think the Sox and their fan base are the biggest untapped opportunity in Chicago sports, and if the Chairman actually was willing to risk going to an $80-90 million payroll to make a serious push at the World Series, the city would be electric and he would get the support he is looking for. But he has to step out and say to the fans, "We're going to take down the Yankees, by any means necessary, and spend the money to do so."

Instead we got "It's Time" in 2001, with overpaid Royce Clayton, a fat aching back, clubhouse cancer in David Wells, and an aging Sandy Alomar, anoited to put us over the top. With the payroll in the 60s.

And now we're "Ready to Play" with Todd Ritchie supplanting two servicable arms in Wells and Lowe from 2001, and a future starter prospect in Fogg. Payroll $57 Million.

That is not taking risk, therefore you will never reap the big reward. You will only see moderate success, .500 seasons, a Division title here and there.

Let's be honest, does anyone think that the Sox could possibly unseed the Yankees as the best team in the AL with a $57 Million payroll?

They are arguably better than the Sox at every position. Because they are willing to take on the risk of paying for it.

Kilroy
06-25-2002, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by Clarkdog

Reinsdorf wants reward without taking risk. I think the Sox and their fan base are the biggest untapped opportunity in Chicago sports, and if the Chairman actually was willing to risk going to an $80-90 million payroll to make a serious push at the World Series, the city would be electric and he would get the support he is looking for...

This idea is questionable at best. 2 years ago, we had a team that kicked the crap out of the Yankees and was in first place for 5 of the 6 months of the season. Yet and still, the attendance did not rise much, if at all. Personally, I don't care what the payroll is, I care what the payoff will be. Cubs spent about 80 mil and they still suck. So that's no necessarily the answer...

Paulwny
06-25-2002, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy

. Personally, I don't care what the payroll is, I care what the payoff will be. Cubs spent about 80 mil and they still suck. So that's no necessarily the answer...

Agree spending $$ doesn't always lead to success, spending money wisely does. People in the front office need to have the fear of King George. If your fa recommendations and trades don't work out, heads will roll. He didn't get his ws ring and at least one in the front office went to the guillotine.

hold2dibber
06-25-2002, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by Clarkdog


PHG, you are absolutely right.

Reinsdorf wants reward without taking risk. I think the Sox and their fan base are the biggest untapped opportunity in Chicago sports, and if the Chairman actually was willing to risk going to an $80-90 million payroll to make a serious push at the World Series, the city would be electric and he would get the support he is looking for. But he has to step out and say to the fans, "We're going to take down the Yankees, by any means necessary, and spend the money to do so."

Instead we got "It's Time" in 2001, with overpaid Royce Clayton, a fat aching back, clubhouse cancer in David Wells, and an aging Sandy Alomar, anoited to put us over the top. With the payroll in the 60s.

And now we're "Ready to Play" with Todd Ritchie supplanting two servicable arms in Wells and Lowe from 2001, and a future starter prospect in Fogg. Payroll $57 Million.

That is not taking risk, therefore you will never reap the big reward. You will only see moderate success, .500 seasons, a Division title here and there.

Let's be honest, does anyone think that the Sox could possibly unseed the Yankees as the best team in the AL with a $57 Million payroll?

They are arguably better than the Sox at every position. Because they are willing to take on the risk of paying for it.

I don't think that the dollar amount of the payroll alone is the key, because I don't think that necessarily translates into success (see Baltimore, the Mets, Rangers for examples). But you can display a serious commitment to winning without shelling out $10 million per year for Denny Neagle. First of all, stop using the team as the personal training grounds for managers and GMs. Who was the last Sox manager that had MLB managerial experience at the time he got the Sox job? Jim Fregosi maybe? It has been a while. And Kenny Williams, as diligent and loyal as he may be, is simply not getting the job done as GM. Go get some guys with credentials, guys who win and won't settle for losing (e.g., Dave Dombrowski, Billy Beane, Buck Showalter, Davey Johnson, Dusty Baker). Replace the management mantra of "we can't do anything unless attendance improves" with "we will do anything and everything within our power to bring a World Series to the South Side." And, yes, be willing to spend some money to illustrate that commitment, whether that means adding free agents or higher salary guys via trade. Do not accept mediocrity and do not accept underachieving.

Finally, there is no way you can argue that the Shane Spencer/John Van Der Wall platoon is better than Ordonez in right. So we've got that going for us.

ode to veeck
06-25-2002, 03:49 PM
If Jerry Reinsdorf is the best owner in Chicago, then he is truly the world's tallest midget.

well maybe, but only a tall midget in llilliput

when you consider guys like halas in his old age, the totally couldn't care less wrigley jr., mccaskey, and the fabulous wirtz who let bobby hull go , its not a tough lot to stand out in

... a more useful comparison would be against a reasonable cross section of sports franchise owners across the country because Chicago's arguably got the tail end of the distribution (and has for some time)

ode to veeck
06-25-2002, 03:52 PM
We're talking about the same Ed Debartolo who turned the 49ers into an NFL dynasty,

Eddie Sr. was turned down to buy the Sox because of all the afore mentioned reasons

It was Eddie Jr (his son) that turned the 49ers into an NFL dynasty

Daver
06-25-2002, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by ode to veeck


Eddie Sr. was turned down to buy the Sox because of all the afore mentioned reasons

It was Eddie Jr (his son) that turned the 49ers into an NFL dynasty

You are correct Ode,the same Eddie jr. was forced out as the owner of the 49er's for hiding his ownership in a casino.

Clarkdog
06-25-2002, 04:15 PM
This idea is questionable at best. 2 years ago, we had a team that kicked the crap out of the Yankees and was in first place for 5 of the 6 months of the season. Yet and still, the attendance did not rise much, if at all. Personally, I don't care what the payroll is, I care what the payoff will be. Cubs spent about 80 mil and they still suck. So that's no necessarily the answer...

Who won the series in 2000, and where did the Sox end up? They were in a position to contend and chose not to pull the trigger on deals that could have truly put them over the top. Charles Johnson alone was not going to make that difference.

Attendance was flat initially in 2000, because we had a team that the common baseball fan (not die-hard Sox fan) had no awareness of, that came from nowhere and put togther a great season. Shame on Gallas for not being able to sell a winner to the public.

I'm sorry it came across that simply by spending $80 million dollars that somehow that would equal a contender. My point was that you would take that money and spent it wisely on bankable, marketable players (not Royce Clayton @ $4 Million). If I were JR I might be a bit sceptical of giving a green GM like Kenny Williams $80 Million, but do you want him to plunder your prospects by over compensating in trades? Dibber articulates this much better in his post:

Stop using the team as the personal training grounds for managers and GMs. Who was the last Sox manager that had MLB managerial experience at the time he got the Sox job? Jim Fregosi maybe? It has been a while. And Kenny Williams, as diligent and loyal as he may be, is simply not getting the job done as GM. Replace the management mantra of "we can't do anything unless attendance improves" with "we will do anything and everything within our power to bring a World Series to the South Side." And, yes, be willing to spend some money to illustrate that commitment, whether that means adding free agents or higher salary guys via trade.

Agreed.

Finally, there is no way you can argue that the Shane Spencer/John Van Der Wall platoon is better than Ordonez in right. So we've got that going for us

True, make that one position. Sorry for the oversimplifying the point. The Sox need as many positives as possible right now.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-25-2002, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by ode to veeck


Eddie Sr. was turned down to buy the Sox because of all the afore mentioned reasons

It was Eddie Jr (his son) that turned the 49ers into an NFL dynasty

I wasn't aware each of the Debartolos accumulated their fortunes separately. :smile:

Whether it was Sr. or Jr., the point is they all were about winning championships. At this point in my life, I would strongly prefer that type of owner to who we've got now. Or for that matter, what Sox Fans have received from their ownership the better part of a century now.

If Nintendo magically transformed Seattle from "small market" to "big market" in five years, then put me down for advocating non-American ownership of the Sox, too.

MLB owners' xenophobia and hypocritical charges about others' gambling interests are shameful.

ode to veeck
06-25-2002, 08:19 PM
MLB owners' xenophobia and hypocritical charges about others' gambling interests are shameful.

cast ye not any stones whomsoever liveth in a glass house :smile:

ode to veeck
06-25-2002, 08:22 PM
I wasn't aware each of the Debartolos accumulated their fortunes separately

as history has only (barely) partially uncovered, they each had their own plethora of personal scams :smile:

why wouldn't bud & co feel right at home with these guys?

PaleHoseGeorge
06-25-2002, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by ode to veeck


as history has only (barely) partially uncovered, they each had their own plethora of personal scams :smile:

why wouldn't bud & co feel right at home with these guys?

Didn't the Debartolos come from Youngstown? I've been there, and I'd believe anything somebody said about them.

If Cleveland is the armpit of Ohio, Youngstown is the dingleberries.

:)

34 Inch Stick
06-26-2002, 11:23 AM
The DeBartolo family has owned a little company in Youngstown Ohio named Youngstown Steel for at least two generations. Very few people in this world make their money "seperately".

Eddie was forced to give up ownership of the 49ers a few years ago due to "outside interests" in the New Orleans area.

However their company's have had union troubles in the past.

Nellie_Fox
06-27-2002, 03:13 AM
Originally posted by Paulwny

Valentine- aging vet, lifetime .260 hitter, no "D", Actually, Valentin is a lifetime .247 hitter. He only hit .260 or better one year in his career, 2000. Otherwise, your points are excellent.

bc2k
06-27-2002, 04:56 AM
Originally posted by Moses_Scurry
Early in the season, I was going to every game. I believe I've been to 18 or 19 this year. I now have no desire to go to anymore because of how they are playing. The experience of being at Comiskey does not outweigh the poor quality of play for me. Why subject myself to the torture? I can cook brats and watch the games on TV at home for much less. Plus, when they fall behind by a run after the 6th inning, I can change the channel or go outside and do something. I don't have to witness the 7th, 8th, and 9th inning. I probably won't go to more than a handful of games for the rest of the season unless the team turns it around. It's not worth making the trip.

I agree with everything here. I feel the same way. I regret that I still have tickets for two more games later in the season. I wish I had my $60 dollars back instead.

Now the only positives that I will look for in 2002 are Buehrle winning 20, Konerko as the rbi winner, and hopefully the end of all the cancer that is bringing this team down. The failure of 2002 hopefully brings a new manager, pitching coach (Acosta is available), the departure of Clayton, Alomar, and Thomas, and the arrival of Crede, Harris, and Borchard for 2003.

Of course, as a diehard Sox fan I will be watching most games and holding out for the Hail Mary to win the division because its become real hard to watch this team laydown.

soxcatchtwins
07-01-2002, 02:13 PM
There is no way we can sat its over. We play the twins another 14 times and in the first series i think we showed good signs of offense. We need ritchie to get hi ass in gear now. Buerhle and garland need to get back to where there were a couple weeks ago.
Also the Twins have yet to play oakland seattle or boston. we have and did decent except for oakland. Anyway my point is they will lose there no that good.

kevingrt
07-01-2002, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by soxcatchtwins
There is no way we can sat its over. We play the twins another 14 times and in the first series i think we showed good signs of offense. We need ritchie to get hi ass in gear now. Buerhle and garland need to get back to where there were a couple weeks ago.
Also the Twins have yet to play oakland seattle or boston. we have and did decent except for oakland. Anyway my point is they will lose there no that good.

If Burly and Garland or all our starters can go 6 to 7 IP and give up like 0-4 runs we should be fine