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Rockabilly
07-27-2010, 10:41 AM
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/MLB-latest-news-from-July-070110


He would be a nice pick up. The Sox can DH Quentin

The Immigrant
07-27-2010, 10:48 AM
His home-and-away splits this year should be alarming to anyone looking to move him away from Coors Field.

Rockabilly
07-27-2010, 10:50 AM
He does have an option for next season.

Zakath
07-27-2010, 10:56 AM
His home-and-away splits this year should be alarming to anyone looking to move him away from Coors Field.

That's a helluva drop off. 105 points in BA and over 350 in OPS. :scratch: Seems to be just a this-year phenomenon (career 13 points lower in BA and 49 in OPS).

Harry Potter
07-27-2010, 10:57 AM
He does have an option for next season.

$7.5M this year with a $10M club option for next year (or a $500K buyout)
He can void the 2011 club option if traded

Rockabilly
07-27-2010, 11:02 AM
$7.5M this year with a $10M club option for next year (or a $500K buyout)
He can void the 2011 club option if traded


I can't seem him getting out of his contract for next season, because of him having a down year.

LITTLE NELL
07-27-2010, 11:29 AM
Has he been hurt, numbers are way down and has played in only 74 games.

Rockabilly
07-27-2010, 11:36 AM
The Sox are also looking for a starting pitcher.

http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/19666864515

pythons007
07-27-2010, 11:46 AM
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/MLB-latest-news-from-July-070110


He would be a nice pick up. The Sox can DH Quentin

I've heard he is a god awful RF!!

Craig Grebeck
07-27-2010, 12:09 PM
Pass. We have enough questionable bats and stone gloves.

JermaineDye05
07-27-2010, 12:15 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/MLB-latest-news-from-July-070110


He would be a nice pick up. The Sox can DH Quentin

Rosenthal said contrary to this a couple days ago. If the Sox don't land one of the big bats (Prince/Dunn), then they'll probably go to pitching.

Baron
07-27-2010, 12:22 PM
The Sox are also looking for a starting pitcher.

http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/19666864515


I think they better just start looking for SP now. Were playing the As on Friday and we know how well Hudson played them last time:rolleyes:.

hi im skot
07-27-2010, 12:26 PM
I've heard he is a god awful RF!!

Yep. Might as well leave TCQ out there.

KMcMahon817
07-27-2010, 12:27 PM
It would be a nice case of buying low as this is clearly Hawpe's worst year in the majors. I am not real familiar with his defensive prowess, but if it is below average, we should pass.

soltrain21
07-27-2010, 12:27 PM
I think they better just start looking for SP now. Were playing the As on Friday and we know how well Hudson played them last time:rolleyes:.

Things that have no barring from one thing to the next.

kittle42
07-27-2010, 12:30 PM
I think they better just start looking for SP now. Were playing the As on Friday and we know how well Hudson played them last time:rolleyes:.

Yup, better get a starter before Friday!

Baron
07-27-2010, 12:30 PM
Things that have no barring from one thing to the next.

He has played poorly since he has been called up and really unless he magically gets control in the next few days it will be the same result

hi im skot
07-27-2010, 12:52 PM
He has played poorly since he has been called up and really unless he magically gets control in the next few days it will be the same result

Everyone seems to forget that he pitched well in Seattle. More walks than you'd like, sure, but he got the job done.

Baron
07-27-2010, 12:55 PM
Everyone seems to forget that he pitched well in Seattle. More walks than you'd like, sure, but he got the job done.

He was still shaky in that game and ontop of it we were playing the Mariners.

UofCSoxFan
07-27-2010, 12:58 PM
Everyone seems to forget that he pitched well in Seattle. More walks than you'd like, sure, but he got the job done.

I don't think it's that people are forgetting he got a win in Seattle it's more that they are correctly discounting the performance becasue it was against one of the worst offenses in baseball. He did not pitch particularly well that game and good teams will bury him if he walks that many.

What concerns me about Hudson, for this year, is that he can only throw one pitch for a strike and has been pitching behind in counts in every start. That screams lack of confidence and is an overall recipe for disastor.

dickallen15
07-27-2010, 01:07 PM
Hudson will probably be pretty good if he ever cuts down the walks, so I hope the Sox don't deal him unless they are getting something big in return. For this year, however, the Sox really don't have much margin for error. He's either going to have to start throwing strikes soon or they are going to have to try someone else.

FielderJones
07-27-2010, 01:27 PM
Hudson will probably be pretty good if he ever cuts down the walks, so I hope the Sox don't deal him unless they are getting something big in return. For this year, however, the Sox really don't have much margin for error. He's either going to have to start throwing strikes soon or they are going to have to try someone else.

At all minor league levels Hudson has had good control. This seems to be evidence that his control problems at the major league level are all in his head.

UofCSoxFan
07-27-2010, 01:47 PM
At all minor league levels Hudson has had good control. This seems to be evidence that his control problems at the major league level are all in his head.

I think there is some truth to this, and I think we've seen this before. This was the huge problem when we had the blackhole at the fifth starter spot during the Jerry Manuel era. Some guys it seems completely lose trust in their stuff at the MLB level and worry that if they don't paint the corner on every pitch they are going to get lit up. I mean in all reality, Hudson hasn't been hit all that hard but when you put a ton of guys on bloop hits kill you.

The Immigrant
07-27-2010, 01:51 PM
I don't think it's that people are forgetting he got a win in Seattle it's more that they are correctly discounting the performance becasue it was against one of the worst offenses in baseball. He did not pitch particularly well that game and good teams will bury him if he walks that many.

I thought he pitched very well in Seattle. The main difference between that start and his other two is pitch selection (see here for a breakdown: http://soxmachine.com/soxmachine/2010/07/26/hudson-needs-better-location-navigation/).

vs. KC (http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/pfx.php?s_type=3&sp_type=1&batterX=0&year=2010&month=7&day=11&pitchSel=543339.xml&game=gid_2010_07_11_kcamlb_chamlb_1%2f&prevGame=gid_2010_07_11_kcamlb_chamlb_1%2f): 75 pitches, three sliders, one curve.
vs. SEA (http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/pfx.php?s_type=3&sp_type=1&batterX=0&year=2010&month=7&day=19&pitchSel=543339.xml&game=gid_2010_07_19_chamlb_seamlb_1%2f&prevGame=gid_2010_07_19_chamlb_seamlb_1%2f): 99 pitches, 18 sliders, six curves.
vs. OAK (http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/pfx.php?month=7&day=25&year=2010&game=gid_2010_07_25_chamlb_oakmlb_1%2F&pitchSel=543339&prevGame=gid_2010_07_25_chamlb_oakmlb_1%2F&prevDate=725): 108 pitches, seven sliders, two curves.

He needs to throw his secondary pitches more often in order to have success at this level (shocking, I know).

Jpgr91
07-27-2010, 01:54 PM
I thought he pitched very well in Seattle. The main difference between that start and his other two is pitch selection (see here for a breakdown: http://soxmachine.com/soxmachine/2010/07/26/hudson-needs-better-location-navigation/).

vs. KC (http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/pfx.php?s_type=3&sp_type=1&batterX=0&year=2010&month=7&day=11&pitchSel=543339.xml&game=gid_2010_07_11_kcamlb_chamlb_1%2f&prevGame=gid_2010_07_11_kcamlb_chamlb_1%2f): 75 pitches, three sliders, one curve.
vs. SEA (http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/pfx.php?s_type=3&sp_type=1&batterX=0&year=2010&month=7&day=19&pitchSel=543339.xml&game=gid_2010_07_19_chamlb_seamlb_1%2f&prevGame=gid_2010_07_19_chamlb_seamlb_1%2f): 99 pitches, 18 sliders, six curves.
vs. OAK (http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/pfx.php?month=7&day=25&year=2010&game=gid_2010_07_25_chamlb_oakmlb_1%2F&pitchSel=543339&prevGame=gid_2010_07_25_chamlb_oakmlb_1%2F&prevDate=725): 108 pitches, seven sliders, two curves.

He needs to throw his secondary pitches more often in order to have success at this level.

Or he needs to develop his secondary pitches into effective options. Perhaps he did not have good command of his secondary pitches against KC and OAK, that does happen quite often with young pitchers?

whitesoxfan1986
07-27-2010, 03:34 PM
I thought he pitched very well in Seattle. The main difference between that start and his other two is pitch selection (see here for a breakdown: http://soxmachine.com/soxmachine/2010/07/26/hudson-needs-better-location-navigation/).

vs. KC (http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/pfx.php?s_type=3&sp_type=1&batterX=0&year=2010&month=7&day=11&pitchSel=543339.xml&game=gid_2010_07_11_kcamlb_chamlb_1%2f&prevGame=gid_2010_07_11_kcamlb_chamlb_1%2f): 75 pitches, three sliders, one curve.
vs. SEA (http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/pfx.php?s_type=3&sp_type=1&batterX=0&year=2010&month=7&day=19&pitchSel=543339.xml&game=gid_2010_07_19_chamlb_seamlb_1%2f&prevGame=gid_2010_07_19_chamlb_seamlb_1%2f): 99 pitches, 18 sliders, six curves.
vs. OAK (http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/pfx.php?month=7&day=25&year=2010&game=gid_2010_07_25_chamlb_oakmlb_1%2F&pitchSel=543339&prevGame=gid_2010_07_25_chamlb_oakmlb_1%2F&prevDate=725): 108 pitches, seven sliders, two curves.

He needs to throw his secondary pitches more often in order to have success at this level (shocking, I know).

Maybe that pitch selection is indicative on how poor Hudson's breaking pitches are. From what I've seen, his "slider" has barely any movement or tilt at all, and is basically a second straight change with more velocity than the change with the corkscrew action. Hitters should know when he is throwing his curve because he changes his arm angle from low 3/4 to high 3/4 when he throws it. Hudson is a two pitch pitcher, and in my opinion a better bet for an ace RH setup guy rather than a starter long term, because he could probably sustain the mid 90s fastball there rather than drop to low 90s as a starter.
I have gone out of my way to watch Hudson's starts since he's been called up and this is what I have seen. I don't think he'll have any success as a starter in the majors throwing only a fastball and changeup, and with the control problems. The Sox should trade him for a starter now before he lowers his trade value significantly. IMO His trade value drops with each successive start.

SOXBOY
07-27-2010, 04:30 PM
The Sox need a proven vet starter more than a bat.

UofCSoxFan
07-27-2010, 04:32 PM
I thought he pitched very well in Seattle. The main difference between that start and his other two is pitch selection (see here for a breakdown: http://soxmachine.com/soxmachine/2010/07/26/hudson-needs-better-location-navigation/).

vs. KC (http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/pfx.php?s_type=3&sp_type=1&batterX=0&year=2010&month=7&day=11&pitchSel=543339.xml&game=gid_2010_07_11_kcamlb_chamlb_1%2f&prevGame=gid_2010_07_11_kcamlb_chamlb_1%2f): 75 pitches, three sliders, one curve.
vs. SEA (http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/pfx.php?s_type=3&sp_type=1&batterX=0&year=2010&month=7&day=19&pitchSel=543339.xml&game=gid_2010_07_19_chamlb_seamlb_1%2f&prevGame=gid_2010_07_19_chamlb_seamlb_1%2f): 99 pitches, 18 sliders, six curves.
vs. OAK (http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/pfx.php?month=7&day=25&year=2010&game=gid_2010_07_25_chamlb_oakmlb_1%2F&pitchSel=543339&prevGame=gid_2010_07_25_chamlb_oakmlb_1%2F&prevDate=725): 108 pitches, seven sliders, two curves.

He needs to throw his secondary pitches more often in order to have success at this level (shocking, I know).

Wow...those are pretty shocking ratios, espcially for a righty with a medicore fastball. Part of the poblem espically in the KC and Oak starts, but also in the SEA start, was that he was behind so often its hard to throw your offspeed pitches, especially when you can't grab those for a strike.

gr8mexico
07-27-2010, 04:38 PM
The Sox are also looking for a starting pitcher.

http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/19666864515
Maybe the Sox are looking for pitching because they have something setup to get Dunn for Hudson.

Craig Grebeck
07-27-2010, 04:39 PM
Wow...those are pretty shocking ratios, espcially for a righty with a medicore fastball. Part of the poblem espically in the KC and Oak starts, but also in the SEA start, was that he was behind so often its hard to throw your offspeed pitches, especially when you can't grab those for a strike.
I would not call his fastball mediocre.

JB98
07-27-2010, 05:51 PM
At all minor league levels Hudson has had good control. This seems to be evidence that his control problems at the major league level are all in his head.

More specifically, the trade rumors are in his head. If Hudson is still with the Sox come next week, I anticipate he will calm down and throw more strikes. As you indicated, he doesn't have a track record of wildness previously in his career. These three starts are the exception, not the norm.

Craig Grebeck
07-27-2010, 06:58 PM
More specifically, the trade rumors are in his head. If Hudson is still with the Sox come next week, I anticipate he will calm down and throw more strikes. As you indicated, he doesn't have a track record of wildness previously in his career. These three starts are the exception, not the norm.
Not necessarily. Daniel Hudson has been notoriously inefficient this season. It may not have resulted in a ton of walks in the minor leagues, but it is translating into that in the major leagues.

But Coop's best skill is getting guys to do one of, if not both of these two things: 1. throw a cutter or 2. attack hitters. Daniel will be fine, but his control problems aren't surprising.

BadBobbyJenks
07-27-2010, 07:02 PM
Have the Sox taught Hudson the cutter yet?

Craig Grebeck
07-27-2010, 07:18 PM
Have the Sox taught Hudson the cutter yet?
Nah.

UofCSoxFan
07-27-2010, 08:13 PM
I would not call his fastball mediocre.

Mediocre may not be the right word....but 92/93 from the rgiht side with no offspeed pitch is going to get hit consistently at the major league level.

My point was more that you can live with a guy throwing 85% fastballs if he throws 98 and is ahead in the count. At low 90s you need off speed pitches.

Tragg
07-27-2010, 09:37 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/MLB-latest-news-from-July-070110


He would be a nice pick up. The Sox can DH Quentin

Hawpe is a horrendous defender.

Lets dump Hudson for a good ole veteran 5th starter....or maybe a middle reliever!

Zisk77
07-27-2010, 10:29 PM
Mediocre may not be the right word....but 92/93 from the rgiht side with no offspeed pitch is going to get hit consistently at the major league level.

My point was more that you can live with a guy throwing 85% fastballs if he throws 98 and is ahead in the count. At low 90s you need off speed pitches.

He has hit 95 on the gun and he has very good movement on his fb. He can get people out with it. He has plus FB plus change. If he gets better with his slider look out.

A. Cavatica
07-27-2010, 10:44 PM
Let's trade Konerko to the Angels for prospects and use the prospects to get Dunn. Keep Hudson.

JB98
07-27-2010, 10:47 PM
Let's trade Konerko to the Angels for prospects and use the prospects to get Dunn. Keep Hudson.

I know this is WTS, but this suggestion is pretty far out of touch with reality. This scenario would never happen in a million years.

Slappy
07-27-2010, 10:53 PM
Bah. I'll pass. Don't see what this guy would add at all.

I wanna see Dunn, Kelly Johnson, and Brett Myers on this squad soon. Thx

kittle42
07-27-2010, 10:56 PM
Let's trade Konerko to the Angels for prospects and use the prospects to get Dunn. Keep Hudson.

Yikes. And this helps the Sox exactly...how???

tm1119
07-27-2010, 11:06 PM
If the Rockies were ok with us just taking his contract and only giving up a few low level prospects I would be all for it. Hawpe is definitely a better hitter than he is showing right now(carrer .281/.374/.491 hitter). Who knows if a change of scenery would turn him around though. Hes much more of a last resort option for him if we cant get Dunn, K. Johnson, Laroche, and even Cust.

UofCSoxFan
07-27-2010, 11:12 PM
Yikes. And this helps the Sox exactly...how???

We get an inferior fielder and a guy who's having a worse offensive year (although is still a beast), but we get to keep Hudson and it only costs us prospects!!!!

The whole point of getting a new bat is to upgrade significantly over Kotsay/Jones. If we have to give up nearly valuable talent eslewhere in the line up (Konerko, TCQ, Beckham) then it kind of defeats the point. How do people not get this?

Slappy
07-27-2010, 11:15 PM
Hawpe is having a down year, and he hits at Coors. I just don't like the gamble on a non-elite player when we could upgrade with a much surer thing. I don't see a pick up like Hawpe catapulting the Sox deep into the playoffs and a championship run.

Tragg
07-27-2010, 11:43 PM
Yikes. And this helps the Sox exactly...how???
If you believe that Dunn is better than Konerko, it's an improvement and we save what few prospects we have. Not that the scenario is in the least bit likely.

Trading Hudson for rents, for 5th starters is counterproductive.

A. Cavatica
07-27-2010, 11:46 PM
Yikes. And this helps the Sox exactly...how???

I just don't think that trading Hudson and another top prospect for a few months of Dunn will be worth it. I'd rather send Konerko packing a few months early.

Doing so replaces him with a better, younger, lefthanded hitter and does not create a hole (#5 starter) before we have a plan to fill it or increase payroll.

Granted, it doesn't do anything for the DH position, though Ozzie could at least play Kotsay at first and improve the defense.

UofCSoxFan
07-28-2010, 12:07 AM
I'm a big Dunn fan, always have been. That being said, I wouldn't even trade Dunn for Konerko in fantasy baseball, where defense doesn't matter nor does leadership.

Foulke You
07-28-2010, 04:54 PM
Not necessarily. Daniel Hudson has been notoriously inefficient this season. It may not have resulted in a ton of walks in the minor leagues, but it is translating into that in the major leagues.

But Coop's best skill is getting guys to do one of, if not both of these two things: 1. throw a cutter or 2. attack hitters. Daniel will be fine, but his control problems aren't surprising.
I agree with your assessment but I wonder how long it will take Daniel to learn from Coop how to pitch in the bigs. Right now, Hudson reminds me a lot of Gavin Floyd and John Danks their first year with the Sox. Lots of raw talent, good arm, ton of upside, struggling with command of the secondary pitches, and going deep in counts. Both Floyd and Danks eventually turned into good young starters and learned how to command the strike zone and use their fastballs to set up opposing hitters for their secondary pitches. The question is, can the Sox afford to be patient with Hudson right now during this learning process while being in the middle of a super tight Pennant race that is sure to come down to the final 2 weeks? I'm kind've on the fence with this. Part of me would like to see the Sox add a veteran arm who won't crack under pressure but part of me would like to see if the Sox can develop another good young starting pitcher that would be under team control for a lot of years. Hudson's next start on Friday could dictate which direction the team decides to go in the short term.

Balfanman
07-29-2010, 07:37 AM
According to Mark Gonzales in the Tribune the Sox have been scouting the Rockies. Brad Hawpe may work, or De La Rosa if Hudson is traded.

y2j2785
08-18-2010, 11:33 PM
Apparently the Rockies are going to release him.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/08/brad-hawpe-clears-waivers.html#disqus_thread

Edit: My Bad. I didn't notice this was already posted in Talking Baseball.