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hawkjt
07-23-2010, 02:56 PM
has 5 trades that should be made.

One involved the Sox.

O's Luke Scott and Miguel Tejada to Sox for minor leaguers SS Escobar,RP's Harrell and Nunez.

B & B are talking about it.

Looking at Scotts numbers...I would not mind acquring him at all..OPS over .900,and he is locked up reasonably cheap thru 2012. Could be an answer at DH for a couple more years...only 32 years old.

Tejada, I am less enthusiastic about. Yes,he could play third but his number are not so great..OPS .680.

Problem is, what to do with Teahen. Could he play third vs rightys, allowing scott to DH? Or I suppose he could play right field and have Carlos sit vs rightys? nah.

Adding Scott could be worked around but both Scott and Tejada seems like a traffic jam at third base. We have Omar,Teahen,Dayan already. Scott? I say we could fit him in. Kots might have to go.

DirtySox
07-23-2010, 03:01 PM
I read this piece earlier today. That trade, and many of the others in the article are horribly unrealistic. If that is all it took to get Scott and Tejada, it would be done by now.

I am not averse to acquiring Luke Scott though.

Craig Grebeck
07-23-2010, 03:03 PM
I read this piece earlier today. That trade, and many of the others in the article are horribly unrealistic. If that is all it took to get Scott and Tejada, it would be done by now.
Kahrl, like Dave Cameron, likes to focus on the supposed sabermetric value of players rather than their actual, perceived value. That's how you get trades as dumb as the Venable/Russell for Dunn deal she proposed.

tm1119
07-23-2010, 03:17 PM
I read this piece earlier today. That trade, and many of the others in the article are horribly unrealistic. If that is all it took to get Scott and Tejada, it would be done by now.

I am not averse to acquiring Luke Scott though.

That deal is not unrealistic at all. Neither Tejada or Scott have much value at all. Scott has a little value, but there are no teams knocking down doors to get him by any means. Scott is soon to be 32, league average OF and below average DH, and draws no interest from fans to buy tickets. AKA he means absolutely nothing to a bad team like the Orioles. Tejada is having a pretty bad season and is more than likely to retire after this season than anything. Why wouldnt the Orioles take whatever younger and cheaper talent they can get for those 2 players.

Nunez and Escobar have some potential by the way. They arent complete nobodys. I personally put both of them in our top 10 prospects(not that my opinion actually means anything). I think the Orioles would have no problem doing that deal.

By the way Luke Scott cant play 3B if thats what the OP was implying. Hes a corner OF/DH that has played a little 1B. Which is exactly what we should be looking for.

DirtySox
07-23-2010, 03:23 PM
That deal is not unrealistic at all. Neither Tejada or Scott have much value at all. Scott has a little value, but there are no teams knocking down doors to get him by any means. Scott is soon to be 32, league average OF and below average DH, and draws no interest from fans to buy tickets. AKA he means absolutely nothing to a bad team like the Orioles. Tejada is having a pretty bad season and is more than likely to retire after this season than anything. Why wouldnt the Orioles take whatever younger and cheaper talent they can get for those 2 players.

Nunez and Escobar have some potential by the way. They arent complete nobodys. I personally put both of them in our top 10 prospects(not that my opinion actually means anything). I think the Orioles would have no problem doing that deal.

By the way Luke Scott cant play 3B if thats what the OP was implying. Hes a corner OF/DH that has played a little 1B. Which is exactly what we should be looking for.

Nunez isn't sniffing my top 10, and that's even more damning with the Sox terrible system. Harrell is garbage. Escobar is the only thing of value in that trade, and currently it's only because of his glove. The Orioles could easily fetch a better trade package for Tejada and Scott. It won't be overwhelming, but it will be better than this hypothetical trade.

Craig Grebeck
07-23-2010, 03:23 PM
That deal is not unrealistic at all. Neither Tejada or Scott have much value at all. Scott has a little value, but there are no teams knocking down doors to get him by any means. Scott is soon to be 32, league average OF and below average DH, and draws no interest from fans to buy tickets. AKA he means absolutely nothing to a bad team like the Orioles. Tejada is having a pretty bad season and is more than likely to retire after this season than anything. Why wouldnt the Orioles take whatever younger and cheaper talent they can get for those 2 players.

Nunez and Escobar have some potential by the way. They arent complete nobodys. I personally put both of them in our top 10 prospects(not that my opinion actually means anything). I think the Orioles would have no problem doing that deal.

By the way Luke Scott cant play 3B if thats what the OP was implying. Hes a corner OF/DH that has played a little 1B. Which is exactly what we should be looking for.
I don't think the Orioles care one way or the other about Scott's lack of appeal to potential ticket-buyers.

KMcMahon817
07-23-2010, 03:24 PM
has 5 trades that should be made.

One involved the Sox.

O's Luke Scott and Miguel Tejada to Sox for minor leaguers SS Escobar,RP's Harrell and Nunez.

B & B are talking about it.

Looking at Scotts numbers...I would not mind acquring him at all..OPS over .900,and he is locked up reasonably cheap thru 2012. Could be an answer at DH for a couple more years...only 32 years old.

Tejada, I am less enthusiastic about. Yes,he could play third but his number are not so great..OPS .680.

Problem is, what to do with Teahen. Could he play third vs rightys, allowing scott to DH? Or I suppose he could play right field and have Carlos sit vs rightys? nah.

Adding Scott could be worked around but both Scott and Tejada seems like a traffic jam at third base. We have Omar,Teahen,Dayan already. Scott? I say we could fit him in. Kots might have to go.

We don't need Tejada. How about Harrell and Escobar for Scott. That would be fine with me.

sox1970
07-23-2010, 03:25 PM
I like how Bernstein talks about a trade proposal if it comes from sabermetric BP, but if a caller calls in with a proposal idea, he immediately dismisses it.

This trade idea is ridiculous. No way the Orioles settle for those players.

kjhanson
07-23-2010, 03:35 PM
Scott is soon to be 32, league average OF and below average DH, and draws no interest from fans to buy tickets.

When using SLG% only, Luke Scott is a top-ten LH power hitter. Overall, his .497 career SLG% makes him a top 40 slugger in all of baseball. He doesn't hit 35-40 homers, but this year he has the top SLG% (.544) among all DHs. Yes, including Vlad and Ortiz. In short, he is a WAY above average DH. I agree about the fan interest and the limited value to a 110-loss O's team.

Rockabilly brought it up earlier, but Brian Roberts would be available. If somehow we were able to acquire Roberts and Scott, we'd be adding 80 doubles/year to our lineup, including a LH power hitter and a switch hitter.

This lineup would be a force for the last 2.5 months+ of the season

Roberts S
Beckham R
Rios R
Konerko R
Scott L
Quentin R
AJ L
Alexei R
Pierre L

Beckham/Alexei or Scott/Quentin might flip flop. And someone has to play 3rd. But yeah, read that lineup top to bottom, then read it backwards. It's stacked either way.

BringHomeDaBacon
07-23-2010, 04:06 PM
We have enough mediocre bats floating around. I'm not buying Scott's .285 average. By the end of the year it will be back down to .255 - the same as the previous three years. As for Tejada, we have enough low OBP hackers.

I'm not a huge believer in the "clubhouse chemistry" thing but no there's need to rock the boat for these two.

tm1119
07-23-2010, 04:11 PM
When using SLG% only, Luke Scott is a top-ten LH power hitter. Overall, his .497 career SLG% makes him a top 40 slugger in all of baseball. He doesn't hit 35-40 homers, but this year he has the top SLG% (.544) among all DHs. Yes, including Vlad and Ortiz. In short, he is a WAY above average DH. I agree about the fan interest and the limited value to a 110-loss O's team.

Rockabilly brought it up earlier, but Brian Roberts would be available. If somehow we were able to acquire Roberts and Scott, we'd be adding 80 doubles/year to our lineup, including a LH power hitter and a switch hitter.

This lineup would be a force for the last 2.5 months+ of the season

Roberts S
Beckham R
Rios R
Konerko R
Scott L
Quentin R
AJ L
Alexei R
Pierre L

Beckham/Alexei or Scott/Quentin might flip flop. And someone has to play 3rd. But yeah, read that lineup top to bottom, then read it backwards. It's stacked either way.

Scott actually doesnt qualify in any leaders because he only has 239 ABs so far this season. To think that he can can maintain a .544 SLG % in a full season is pretty unrealistic. Im all for trading for Scott, I like him as a fit for our team. But I think you guys are highly overvaluing him. Name me 1 other playoff team that would actually be interested in trading for Scott. The market for him and his value are both fairly low. Im fairly confident Nunez and Escobar would be enough to get Scott.

Tragg
07-23-2010, 04:14 PM
I like how Bernstein talks about a trade proposal if it comes from sabermetric BP, but if a caller calls in with a proposal idea, he immediately dismisses it.

This trade idea is ridiculous. No way the Orioles settle for those players.
IT's not like the Orioles are giving elite talent in return. Remember what we got when we tried to peddle above average vets? Zero. Nothing. It's more than we got for Nick Swisher.

BringHomeDaBacon
07-23-2010, 04:35 PM
IT's not like the Orioles are giving elite talent in return. Remember what we got when we tried to peddle above average vets? Zero. Nothing. It's more than we got for Nick Swisher.

I agree with what you're saying except I wouldn't characterize these two as "above average". I think "serviceable" would be more accurate.

Pablo_Honey
07-23-2010, 05:04 PM
IT's not like the Orioles are giving elite talent in return.
Scott is still fairly young (32), cheap and is actually a good hitter if he can remain healthy. He would take more than a starter-turned-reliver-turned-starter, an all-glove-zero-bat and an aging prospect. Tejada, yes, is total crap. The aforementioned package should get it done but that's actually overpaying.

kjhanson
07-23-2010, 07:47 PM
Scott actually doesnt qualify in any leaders because he only has 239 ABs so far this season. To think that he can can maintain a .544 SLG % in a full season is pretty unrealistic.

He's exactly 25 PAs away from qualifying. It's not like he got called up two weeks ago.

Perhaps you should have read the rest of the post where I mentioned that his career SLG% (.501 now) over 2,000 PAs would make him a top 10 LH power bat. I'm not judging him on this year's numbers. His career numbers actually make him a very, very good LH DH.

.258/.338/.479, 22.2% K rate for $2.4MM

OR

.246/.364/.494, 31.3% K rate for $14.3MM

That's Luke Scott vs. Jim Thome in 2008 & 2009 combined (Salary is Scott's max salary over two years, Thome's is average).

Could you imagine over the last two years if we had Luke Scott + a $12MM/year third baseman over just Jim Thome?

I'm not saying Luke Scott is on par with Fielder or Dunn. I'd much rather have the latter two. But from a value standpoint, Luke Scott is incredibly undervalued and an undeniable upgrade to Mark Kotsay.

pythons007
07-23-2010, 08:10 PM
I like how Bernstein talks about a trade proposal if it comes from sabermetric BP, but if a caller calls in with a proposal idea, he immediately dismisses it.

This trade idea is ridiculous. No way the Orioles settle for those players.

Bernstein likes to belittle callers whenever possible. He seems to get rattled really easily by questions or suggestions from callers. He also gets really pissed at them at the drop of a hat with no rhyme or reason.

For him to go against callers opinions is no surprise whatsoever. I think he knows and has better opinions then the common fan, which is ridiculous because he doesn't have any better guesses as we do.

tm1119
07-23-2010, 08:12 PM
He's exactly 25 PAs away from qualifying. It's not like he got called up two weeks ago.

Perhaps you should have read the rest of the post where I mentioned that his career SLG% (.501 now) over 2,000 PAs would make him a top 10 LH power bat. I'm not judging him on this year's numbers. His career numbers actually make him a very, very good LH DH.

.258/.338/.479, 22.2% K rate for $2.4MM

OR

.246/.364/.494, 31.3% K rate for $14.3MM

That's Luke Scott vs. Jim Thome in 2008 & 2009 combined (Salary is Scott's max salary over two years, Thome's is average).

Could you imagine over the last two years if we had Luke Scott + a $12MM/year third baseman over just Jim Thome?

I'm not saying Luke Scott is on par with Fielder or Dunn. I'd much rather have the latter two. But from a value standpoint, Luke Scott is incredibly undervalued and an undeniable upgrade to Mark Kotsay.

Top 10 LH power bat in all of baseball, or just DH? Cause theres no way hes 1 of the best LH hitters in all of baseball.
I already said I like Scott as a fit on our team, and I would be fairly happy if we did get him as he would be a significant upgrade to our team. Im just saying that he wont be hard to get at all. People are saying that the offer proposed in the OP is ridiculous, but its not. Perhaps the Tejada part, but Escobar and Nunez for Scott sounds fairly close to me. Maybe a younger pitcher than Nunez like Upchurch or Holmberg, but its really not going to take much to get Scott. I wouldnt be surprised to see something like cash and a PTBNL sent to Baltimore for him to be honest.

Pablo_Honey
07-23-2010, 09:05 PM
Perhaps the Tejada part, but Escobar and Nunez for Scott sounds fairly close to me. Maybe a younger pitcher than Nunez like Upchurch or Holmberg, but its really not going to take much to get Scott. I wouldnt be surprised to see something like cash and a PTBNL sent to Baltimore for him to be honest.
I think you are overvaluing Escobar and Nunez. Escobar is a Cesar Izturis at best and Jhonny Nunez is a reliever. Neither have much value as there are plentity of those in the league. And no way do we give up Upchurch or Holmberg. Both guys are projectable high school draftees. They may add a few ticks on their fastballs a la Dan Cortes.

The Orioles are not in a hurry to deal Scott and Scott is one of the few decent pieces on that dreadful team. Cash + PTBNL is what it would take to get Tejada because he is crap. Scott is far from crap. I'm not sure what the asking price for Scott would be but it certainly isn't gonna be Escobar and Nunez.

Taliesinrk
07-23-2010, 09:57 PM
He's exactly 25 PAs away from qualifying. It's not like he got called up two weeks ago.

Perhaps you should have read the rest of the post where I mentioned that his career SLG% (.501 now) over 2,000 PAs would make him a top 10 LH power bat. I'm not judging him on this year's numbers. His career numbers actually make him a very, very good LH DH.

.258/.338/.479, 22.2% K rate for $2.4MM

OR

.246/.364/.494, 31.3% K rate for $14.3MM

That's Luke Scott vs. Jim Thome in 2008 & 2009 combined (Salary is Scott's max salary over two years, Thome's is average).

Could you imagine over the last two years if we had Luke Scott + a $12MM/year third baseman over just Jim Thome?

I'm not saying Luke Scott is on par with Fielder or Dunn. I'd much rather have the latter two. But from a value standpoint, Luke Scott is incredibly undervalued and an undeniable upgrade to Mark Kotsay.

:hawk

"Don't tell me what you hit... tell me when you hit it"