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Jeff B
07-22-2010, 05:06 PM
We just finished our top 25 prospects list at FutureSox.com, which you can read here (http://bit.ly/9xrtDo).

My personal top 10 was:
1. Dan Hudson
2. Chris Sale
3. Dayan Viciedo
4. Tyler Flowers
5. Trayce Thompson
6. Jared Mitchell
7. Brent Morel
8. Jacob Petricka
9. Jordan Danks
10. Ryan Buch

Some may see Buch at 10 as a surprise but I'm a big fan of his, he's my big sleeper pick. I could see Chris Sale at #1, but Hudson's performance at AAA gave him the edge for me and Petricka slides comfortably into the top 10. The other '10 draftees in my top 25 are Addison Reed (#12), Matthew Grimes (#21) and Andy Wilkins (#24).

So who does everyone else have in their top 10?

Pablo_Honey
07-22-2010, 06:25 PM
Hmm, interesting top 10 you have there. I'm surprised to see Thompson ahead of Mitchell. Thompson's too raw for my liking and his long swing doesn't inspire much confidence in me. Danks has disappointed yet again and with his age I expected better. Flowers is struggling as well but he was never this bad so I'm willing to cut him some slack. So yeah, just throwing in my two cents.

My totally unbiased top 10:
1. Hudson
2. Viciedo
3. Sale
4. Morel
5. Flowers
6. Mitchell
7. Holmberg
8. Bellamy
9. Thompson
10. Petricka

tm1119
07-22-2010, 08:29 PM
Our system is so thin that there really isnt a whole lot of room for debate here. Although, I have a few different guys towards the bottom of my list.

1. Hudson
2. Dayan
3. Sale
4. Flowers
5. Morel
6. Mitchel
7. Santos Rodriguez (future closer?)
8. Petricka
9. Jose Martinez
10. Eduardo Escobar

Hitmen77
07-22-2010, 09:50 PM
Why can't the Sox have a better farm system? I guess that's half rhetorical.:(:

Are we expecting to see improvement in the system over the next few years as the 2008 and later draft picks take shape?

PolishPrince34
07-23-2010, 07:14 AM
1. Dan Hudson
2. Chris Sale
3. Jared Mitchell
4. Trayce Thompson
5. Brent Morel
6.Tyler Flowers
7. Dayan Viciedo
8. Jacob Petricka
9. Addison Reed
10. Ryan Buch

tm1119
07-23-2010, 09:17 AM
What's everybodys deal with Thompson? He has yet to show any ability to hit whatsoever. I know he's still young but from what I've read he's nothing but an athlete that needs to learn how to hit completely as a big leaguer. Not saying that can't happen but I don't see how he's in our top 10 until he learns how to hit at least a little bit.

DirtySox
07-23-2010, 09:36 AM
What's everybodys deal with Thompson? He has yet to show any ability to hit whatsoever. I know he's still young but from what I've read he's nothing but an athlete that needs to learn how to hit completely as a big leaguer. Not saying that can't happen but I don't see how he's in our top 10 until he learns how to hit at least a little bit.

He probably has the highest ceiling in the system. He oozes tools. He started off this year ridiculously hot in Kanny, but soon cooled down and then got injured. Yes he is raw, but most scouting publications were heaping praise on him for the adjustments he made to his game. He's probably be around 6ish on my list.

doublem23
07-23-2010, 09:50 AM
What's everybodys deal with Thompson? He has yet to show any ability to hit whatsoever. I know he's still young but from what I've read he's nothing but an athlete that needs to learn how to hit completely as a big leaguer. Not saying that can't happen but I don't see how he's in our top 10 until he learns how to hit at least a little bit.

I think a guy like Trayce Thompson would be a fringe Top 10 candidate in a lot of farm systems, but you're right the fact that he rountinely bounces into the top half speaks for how bare our system is right now.

Randar68
07-23-2010, 11:58 AM
Why can't the Sox have a better farm system? I guess that's half rhetorical.

When you make a habit out of making big trades, it will cost you depth and talent. Likewise, if you aren't going to spend big money and take fliers on guys with huge demands who slip in the draft or demand above-slot money you are going to miss out on better talent...

tm1119
07-23-2010, 12:40 PM
When you make a habit out of making big trades, it will cost you depth and talent. Likewise, if you aren't going to spend big money and take fliers on guys with huge demands who slip in the draft or demand above-slot money you are going to miss out on better talent...

The latter half of your statement is the main reason. We really haven't given up that much legit talent by way of trade to warrant having this bare of a system. It's a factor but a very small 1. The main reason is drafting safe and easy to sign college players with no potential at all. Until management shows the willingness to pay and take the time to develop prospects our system is going to suck. If you notice almost every legit prospect we get is on a rush course to the majors. Beckham, Jor. Danks, sale, dayan, poreda, hudson to name them off the top of my head. No development time at all.

cws05champ
07-23-2010, 01:25 PM
The latter half of your statement is the main
reason. We really haven't given up that much legit talent by way of trade to warrant having this bare of a system. It's a factor but a very small 1. The main reason is drafting safe and easy to sign college players with no potential at all. Until management shows the willingness to pay and take the time to develop prospects our system is going to suck. If you notice almost every legit prospect we get is on a rush course to the majors. Beckham, Jor. Danks, sale, dayan, poreda, hudson to name them off the top of my head. No development time at all.

Also, our international scouting and signings have been non-existent over the last few years, outside of the Cuban connection. If they're not going to draft and sign the talented, but hard to sign guys and get their act together in International scouting, they won't fully turn this ship around.

As long as we have a competitive team at the major league level though I have no problem with KW's strategy to use minor league depth to acquire ML players. I just hope they identify the correct guys to keep (Beckham, Sale etc) that will be good long term.

tm1119
07-23-2010, 01:34 PM
Also, our international scouting and signings have been non-existent over the last few years, outside of the Cuban connection. If they're not going to draft and sign the talented, but hard to sign guys and get their act together in International scouting, they won't fully turn this ship around.

As long as we have a competitive team at the major league level though I have no problem with KW's strategy to use minor league depth to acquire ML players. I just hope they identify the correct guys to keep (Beckham, Sale etc) that will be good long term.

I completely agree with you that KW is good at using his minor league system for acquiring good MLB talent, and I have no problem with that at all. But hes also extremely handcuffed with the deals he can make because of how thin our system is. Im not saying we have to draft the most expensive guys in the draft every round, but at least make an effort to get a guy with some legit potential. Seems like we are so content in drafting that 22 year old college pitcher that has the ceiling of middle reliever at best. Theres really no reason for it all either. The Rays, Twins, Marlins, Padres and others all have lower payrolls than us and seem to be able to develop tons of talent. Yet we cant do a damn thing in the draft besides draft 22 year olds that seem to sit in A or AA til their 26. Very frustrating to think of how much the draft and player development holds this entire franchise back.

Tragg
07-23-2010, 05:36 PM
We produce more talent than people realize. lately we've squandered a lot of it for pretty much nill in return....bad veterans, utility infielders, etc.

We had no farm system...but somehow we had 4 pitchers to send to San Diego for Peavy. We had no farm system, but we'll meet too of the prospects this weekend that we gave for, Marquez I suppose, as things turned out. When we trade a solid veteran starter Javy, we get ONE legitimate prospect out of the deal. ONE. (Swisher yielded the As 3).

And we don't seem to work the draft very well, nor take risks for high ceiling, nor spend money over slot.

Pablo_Honey
07-23-2010, 06:03 PM
We had no farm system, but we'll meet too of the prospects this weekend that we gave for, Marquez I suppose, as things turned out. When we trade a solid veteran starter Javy, we get ONE legitimate prospect out of the deal. ONE. (Swisher yielded the As 3).
When we traded for Swisher, he had a lot of value. He walked, hit for power, ran the bases, fielded multiple positions and was signed for cheap. When Javy was traded, he was coming off another 4.00+ ERA season for the fourth time in five seasons. He was also coming off a pathetic late season stint after which he got his ass chewed up by Ozzie in public. I'd hardly put them on the same level of talent.

And we don't seem to work the draft very well, nor take risks for high ceiling, nor spend money over slot.
This. The Sox are notorious for avoiding high ceiling guys that are tough signs. Even when they do draft tough signs, they pick the lower ceiling ones and go after them in the lower rounds to sign them for moderate amount (E.g. Steven Upchurch). The Sox may have drafted riskier picks like Mitchell and Sale but they still managed to sign them near slot and fairly quickly too. It also doesn't help we are horrible at developing prospects.

doublem23
07-23-2010, 06:17 PM
We had no farm system...but somehow we had 4 pitchers to send to San Diego for Peavy. We had no farm system, but we'll meet too of the prospects this weekend that we gave for, Marquez I suppose, as things turned out. When we trade a solid veteran starter Javy, we get ONE legitimate prospect out of the deal. ONE. (Swisher yielded the As 3).

We got Peavy because we took his entire contract off San Diego's hands.

rdivaldi
07-24-2010, 10:29 AM
If you notice almost every legit prospect we get is on a rush course to the majors. Beckham, Jor. Danks, sale, dayan, poreda, hudson to name them off the top of my head. No development time at all.

????

I don't agree with this at all. Beckham and Hudson earned their way to the majors. Poreda spent significant time in the minors working his way up, Danks hasn't even made his way to the majors yet and Viciedo spent a year and a half in the minors plus his time playing with major league talent in Cuba. Sale doesn't seem to be having any problems rising up either.

This "rushing" argument that people like to pull out of their derriere is getting tiresome. Every prospect is different and they progress at their own rate.

rdivaldi
07-24-2010, 10:34 AM
Seems like we are so content in drafting that 22 year old college pitcher that has the ceiling of middle reliever at best.

That's a complete myth that comes from the back-to-back picks of Broadway and McCulloch in the first rounds of 2005 and 2006.

Craig Grebeck
07-24-2010, 11:21 AM
????

I don't agree with this at all. Beckham and Hudson earned their way to the majors. Poreda spent significant time in the minors working his way up, Danks hasn't even made his way to the majors yet and Viciedo spent a year and a half in the minors plus his time playing with major league talent in Cuba. Sale doesn't seem to be having any problems rising up either.

This "rushing" argument that people like to pull out of their derriere is getting tiresome. Every prospect is different and they progress at their own rate.
I disagree. Danks has clearly been rushed, and Viciedo's time in Cuba against "major league talent" (your phrasing, certainly not mine) shouldn't count. He was below average in AA and showed serious weaknesses in AAA.

rdivaldi
07-24-2010, 01:50 PM
I disagree. Danks has clearly been rushed, and Viciedo's time in Cuba against "major league talent" (your phrasing, certainly not mine) shouldn't count. He was below average in AA and showed serious weaknesses in AAA.

What makes you think Danks has been rushed? He was clearly too advanced for A+ last year and was tearing up AA until he came down with some wrist issues. He also raked in the AFL, I see nothing to suggest that he should have been in AA in 2010, unless you are of the belief that his strikeout rate was too high to advance?

The Cuban leagues are full of players that could play in the majors, granted there are also guys that would struggle in A ball, but Viciedo saw some talented players coming through there.

DirtySox
07-24-2010, 02:09 PM
unless you are of the belief that his strikeout rate was too high to advance?.

This was and is his main issue. The swing has always been long and need of work. He is not going to succeed in the majors as a starter with that K rate and skill-set.

Craig Grebeck
07-24-2010, 02:17 PM
What makes you think Danks has been rushed? He was clearly too advanced for A+ last year and was tearing up AA until he came down with some wrist issues. He also raked in the AFL, I see nothing to suggest that he should have been in AA in 2010, unless you are of the belief that his strikeout rate was too high to advance?

The Cuban leagues are full of players that could play in the majors, granted there are also guys that would struggle in A ball, but Viciedo saw some talented players coming through there.
Too high a strikeout rate, certainly, and given the way he finished in AA, I definitely think a month or two in the Southern League would have been beneficial.

As far as the Cuban Leagues are concerned, I disagree.

doublem23
07-24-2010, 02:50 PM
That's a complete myth that comes from the back-to-back picks of Broadway and McCulloch in the first rounds of 2005 and 2006.

Something can't really be a myth if it's happened... twice.

rdivaldi
07-24-2010, 06:04 PM
Something can't really be a myth if it's happened... twice.

Twice in 10 years? 20 years? I would consider that myth status.

rdivaldi
07-24-2010, 06:08 PM
Too high a strikeout rate, certainly, and given the way he finished in AA, I definitely think a month or two in the Southern League would have been beneficial.

As far as the Cuban Leagues are concerned, I disagree.

I'm believe that his finish in AA was more due to injury than anything else. His AFL showing was pretty impressive.

Pablo_Honey
07-24-2010, 06:23 PM
Twice in 10 years? 20 years? I would consider that myth status.
First round wise, yes, the Sox stopped doing that after McCulloch pick (Poreda pick is a borderline average pick but at least he threw hard) but the overall draft wise, no, they are still drafting marginal college starters. Just look at the top guys in our farm ranking - most of them are pitchers drafted out of college in lower rounds.

I'm believe that his finish in AA was more due to injury than anything else. His AFL showing was pretty impressive.
Yeah, he cooled off a lot after that injury so I suspect he may not be perfectly healthy right now. I'm willing to cut him some slack for this year. If he were healthy, it would be very alarming because he's not walking or hitting but still striking out a ton. I think the Sox should completely fix his swing to be compact so that he can be make more contact. It's clear he can't hit for power, so we should just give up on him ever developing into a toolsy hitter. I'd settle for a Brett Gardner with him.

Oh and AFL stats are to be taken with a grain of salt. It's widely accepted that AFL favours the hitters HEAVILY.

tm1119
07-24-2010, 08:25 PM
That's a complete myth that comes from the back-to-back picks of Broadway and McCulloch in the first rounds of 2005 and 2006.


The draft goes past the 1st round in case you were unaware. Hell, our first 5 picks in this years draft were college pitchers.

PolishPrince34
07-24-2010, 08:46 PM
We have drafted the last 2 years Dave Holmberg, Mark Heidenreich, and this year Matthew Grimes out of H.S. We need to keep on drafting more H.S arms with potential. Chris Sale was Junior College pitcher and is 21 years old. Williams and Laumann need to use this strategy more often in future drafts. We haven't spent any money the last 2-3 years years in the International signings, other than Juan Silverio and that hasn't worked out. We need to put an extra $3-5 million on the draft and international signings. If that means we have to take $5 million off the regular roster, I'm all for it. Look what an extra $5 million is doing for the farm clubs of Tampay Bay, Oakland,Pittsburgh, Kansas City, and Boston. They have some of the best farm systems because of it and they will save money in the long run by not going after free agents or making trades with high salaries.

rdivaldi
07-26-2010, 09:09 PM
The draft goes past the 1st round in case you were unaware. Hell, our first 5 picks in this years draft were college pitchers.

True, but you must admit that this entire "White Sox make safe picks" falsehood came from their first round selections.