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soxyess
07-18-2010, 12:36 PM
mlbtraderumors indicates that Lynch will move anyone on the Orioles roster. I know this isnt going to be popular, but I think a trade of Beckham, Hudson, Carlos Torres, and Danks plus a couple of lesser prospects would land Markakis. Markakis is set to make 10mil next year. Hes 26, All-Star, LH bat, Gold glove RF, hits .300. His power numbers are down, but playing at the cell will elevate them.
The Orioles will not contend for years in that division. They need pitching prospects. With Rios and Markais in the outfield, we would have one of the best defensive outfields in baseball. Quentin could then move to DH and prolong his career.
I dont like the idea of trading Beckham, but if he helps you get a young all star in return, I would make the move. Markakis is signed for a long term deal.
Any Thoughts?

SephClone89
07-18-2010, 12:43 PM
mlbtraderumors indicates that Lynch will move anyone on the Orioles roster. I know this isnt going to be popular, but I think a trade of Beckham, Hudson, Carlos Torres, and Danks plus a couple of lesser prospects would land Markakis. Markakis is set to make 10mil next year. Hes 26, All-Star, LH bat, Gold glove RF, hits .300. His power numbers are down, but playing at the cell will elevate them.
The Orioles will not contend for years in that division. They need pitching prospects. With Rios and Markais in the outfield, we would have one of the best defensive outfields in baseball. Quentin could then move to DH and prolong his career.
I dont like the idea of trading Beckham, but if he helps you get a young all star in return, I would make the move. Markakis is signed for a long term deal.
Any Thoughts?

That is quite a haul.

Coops4Aces
07-18-2010, 12:43 PM
Including Beckham? No chance in hell. Beckham plays solid D and his bat is going to be awesome. Plus, he is on the cheap for a while.

Pablo_Honey
07-18-2010, 12:57 PM
mlbtraderumors indicates that Lynch will move anyone on the Orioles roster. I know this isnt going to be popular, but I think a trade of Beckham, Hudson, Carlos Torres, and Danks plus a couple of lesser prospects would land Markakis.
Um, no, that won't do it unless you are talking about John Danks not Jordan but even then the O's won't do it because Danks will be in his second year of arb already. Let's break down this package:

1) Beckham: Gordon had a lot of value coming into the season but right now, his value is really low. He won't get us much return unless the other team thinks they can fix him.
2) Hudson: Huddy's pretty good but he was never projected to be an ace, something he would have to be to be included in a trade for a guy like Markakis. He's a #3 at best and while there's nothing wrong with that, his trading value says otherwise.
3) Torres: 27. 'nuff said.
4) Danks: Jordan is crap. 4th OF at best. Zero value.

This isn't even our best prospect package. That would be Beckham, Hudson, Viciedo and Morel. Even then it's not enough. If we landed Markakis with that package, it would be a steal from a value standpoint but it would be stupid for us to do that trade because now we don't have a 2B, a 1B/DH, a 3B and #4/5 SP. That's counter intuitive.

Dibbs
07-18-2010, 12:58 PM
I love Markakis, but you would give up ALL of those guys for him?

WhiteSox5187
07-18-2010, 01:09 PM
I wouldn't trade Beckham. I also wouldn't trade Hudson until we know who would be our fifth starter.

soxyess
07-18-2010, 01:19 PM
Um, no, that won't do it unless you are talking about John Danks not Jordan but even then the O's won't do it because Danks will be in his second year of arb already. Let's break down this package:

1) Beckham: Gordon had a lot of value coming into the season but right now, his value is really low. He won't get us much return unless the other team thinks they can fix him.
2) Hudson: Huddy's pretty good but he was never projected to be an ace, something he would have to be to be included in a trade for a guy like Markakis. He's a #3 at best and while there's nothing wrong with that, his trading value says otherwise.
3) Torres: 27. 'nuff said.
4) Danks: Jordan is crap. 4th OF at best. Zero value.

This isn't even our best prospect package. That would be Beckham, Hudson, Viciedo and Morel. Even then it's not enough. If we landed Markakis with that package, it would be a steal from a value standpoint but it would be stupid for us to do that trade because now we don't have a 2B, a 1B/DH, a 3B and #4/5 SP. That's counter intuitive.

I like your analysis, but im looking at this from a win now prospective. Markakis wouldnt be a rent a player. He is a proven young All Star. I believe Beckham's value has gone up recently, and he is still valued throughout the league. I think its easier to find a 1b/Dh, 3b, 2b, 4/5sp than it is to find an A player of Markakis' quality at his age.
I would put whatever deal you can to get him. I wouldnt include John Danks. If they insisted on him that would be the deal killer.

doublem23
07-18-2010, 02:03 PM
To get Markakis, we would probably have to include Floyd and Danks, Sr. Just not going to happen.

Tragg
07-18-2010, 02:05 PM
1) Beckham: Gordon had a lot of value coming into the season but right now, his value is really low. He won't get us much return unless the other team thinks they can fix him.

That is absolutely ridiculous.
(not that we are getting Markakis; we aren't).

sox1970
07-18-2010, 02:09 PM
When anyone has a trade idea, don't let Gordon Beckham's name come into your mind. He's not getting traded. So stop yourself.

KMcMahon817
07-18-2010, 02:42 PM
When anyone has a trade idea, don't let Gordon Beckham's name come into your mind. He's not getting traded. So stop yourself.

This.

Pablo_Honey
07-18-2010, 02:48 PM
I think its easier to find a 1b/Dh, 3b, 2b, 4/5sp than it is to find an A player of Markakis' quality at his age.
Well, I see your point but I don't agree with that statement. We are talking aboute the White Sox here. The same team that gave third base playing time to the likeness of Josh Fields, Jayson Nix, Mark Teahen and Omar Vizquel since the days of Joe Crede. Even more laughably, they decided to give the DH duty to the infallible duo of Kotsay and Jones, stating DHs should be able to field as well. Most importantly, if we acquire Markakis, the Sox brass will cry poor once again which means the holes at 1B/DH, 2B, 3B and #4/5 SP won't be fixed. The fans can complain all they want but the Sox brass can just say "We committed a lot of prospects and money into one of the best young players in the game, so shut the **** up."

That is absolutely ridiculous.
(not that we are getting Markakis; we aren't).
What's ridiculous about it? A polished college player should not be struggling THIS bad in his second season after ripping through the minors and doing well in his first season. His value is still high, yes, but other teams easily can and will exploit Beckham's crap numbers to their advantage. Of course, Kenny can make a counterpoint by bringing up Beckham's potential and his relative inexperience in the pro ball. Then it all becomes a moot point and his value remains low to other teams relative to ours. Beckham's terrible season isn't giving us any leverage - in fact it puts us at a disadvantage - in trading negotiations. The only case where the other team will give us an equal exchange to Gordon Beckham would be if they truly believe Beckham will fully recover and start hitting like he was expected to.

KMcMahon817
07-18-2010, 02:52 PM
Well, I see your point but I don't agree with that statement. We are talking aboute the White Sox here. The same team that gave third base playing time to the likeness of Josh Fields, Jayson Nix, Mark Teahen and Omar Vizquel since the days of Joe Crede. Even more laughably, they decided to give the DH duty to the infallible duo of Kotsay and Jones, stating DHs should be able to field as well. Most importantly, if we acquire Markakis, the Sox brass will cry poor once again which means the holes at 1B/DH, 2B, 3B and #4/5 SP won't be fixed. The fans can complain all they want but the Sox brass can just say "We committed a lot of prospects and money into one of the best young players in the game, so shut the **** up."


What's ridiculous about it? A polished college player should not be struggling THIS bad in his second season after ripping through the minors and doing well in his first season. His value is still high, yes, but other teams easily can and will exploit Beckham's crap numbers to their advantage. Of course, Kenny can make a counterpoint by bringing up Beckham's potential and his relative inexperience in the pro ball. Then it all becomes a moot point and his value remains low to other teams relative to ours. Beckham's terrible season isn't giving us any leverage - in fact it puts us at a disadvantage - in trading negotiations. The only case where the other team will give us an equal exchange to Gordon Beckham would be if they truly believe Beckham will fully recover and start hitting like he was expected to.


Well he's still not going anywhere, so it doesn't matter.

Pablo_Honey
07-18-2010, 03:01 PM
Well he's still not going anywhere, so it doesn't matter.
I never stated he was going to be traded. I was only arguing why it doesn't make sense to move Beckham, should he be on the trading block in a hypothetical situation. Afterall, Beckham is tradeable just like any other freaking player on any freaking team on any freaking league. Nobody is untouchable - some are just less touchable than others. Now, should the Sox trade Beckham? ****, no. I already explained why in my previous post.

MeteorsSox4367
07-18-2010, 03:18 PM
When anyone has a trade idea, don't let Gordon Beckham's name come into your mind. He's not getting traded. So stop yourself.

Thank you.

kittle42
07-18-2010, 03:20 PM
In addition to leaving Beckham out of trade talks, can people please stop acting like anyone wants Jordan Danks and Carlos Torres?

SoxNation05
07-18-2010, 03:45 PM
To get Markakis, we would probably have to include Floyd and Danks, Sr. Just not going to happen.

Oh bull****, they would jump on getting one of them.

Tragg
07-18-2010, 03:54 PM
What's ridiculous about it? A polished college player should not be struggling THIS bad in his second season after ripping through the minors and doing well in his first season.
Have you watched a game or read a boxscore in the last 3 weeks?

Pablo_Honey
07-18-2010, 04:08 PM
Have you watched a game or read a boxscore in the last 3 weeks?
Riiiiight, because what he's done in the last 3 WEEKS clearly makes his numbers in the first three MONTHS invalid. This kind of thinking is the exact reason why people said Paulie choked in the last game even when he's driven in all the Sox runs that game. I'd be happy to see Gordon come around but unless he can keep this up for the rest of the season, he's still having a bad season and that doesn't change based on a 3 week sample.

Uncontested
07-18-2010, 04:19 PM
If we were going to trade Beckham he'd be on the Mariners and we'd have Cliff Lee right now.

doublem23
07-18-2010, 04:32 PM
Oh bull****, they would jump on getting one of them.

For Markakis? Doubtful.

If we had another decent prospect to give them, maybe, but we don't. I'm sure they're all over Tyler Flowers and his 300 K's in Charlotte this year!

TomBradley72
07-18-2010, 04:38 PM
Riiiiight, because what he's done in the last 3 WEEKS clearly makes his numbers in the first three MONTHS invalid. This kind of thinking is the exact reason why people said Paulie choked in the last game even when he's driven in all the Sox runs that game. I'd be happy to see Gordon come around but unless he can keep this up for the rest of the season, he's still having a bad season and that doesn't change based on a 3 week sample.

Gordon Beckham has been a very good baseball player for a very long time at every level (NCAA, minors, MLB)...it's not just a 3 week sample, it's years of performing as he's matured and moved up through the ranks. You don't seem to be including defense in your assessment, he's been very good at 2nd all season, even when he was struggling at the plate. And he's only going to get better.

He had a very nice 2009 rookie season, he struggled April-June (the worst was May, he hit .230's in April and June), and now it looks like he's made the right adjustments.

For the OP...I don't want to trade Beckham..not only because he's a very good baseball player...but because I don't want Lillibridge as our every day 2nd baseman, nor do I want to move Vizquel to 2nd and rely on Viciedo/Teahen at 3rd.

I also don't want whoever it would be after Hudson/Torres at the 5th starter slot.

The negative impact on our infield and starting rotation is not worth the upside Markakis brings to the offense.

Pablo_Honey
07-18-2010, 04:58 PM
Gordon Beckham has been a very good baseball player for a very long time at every level (NCAA, minors, MLB)...it's not just a 3 week sample, it's years of performing as he's matured and moved up through the ranks.
College and minor league numbers usually should be taken with a grain of salt. It only provides a big general picture of what to expect from prospects (plate discipline, contact ability, power, speed) but I digress.

Look, I'm not trying to bash Gordon and I'd love to see him have a long successful career with us at this level but aside from that 3 week stretch, he's been nothing but disappointing in 2010. Yes, based on his track record, his bad numbers so far should be considered an aberration but there's just not much sample size at MLB level to say he will definitely get better or worse. What we know, however, is that he's put up some ugly numbers so far in the season and he's maintained this for 3 months. Let's wait and see how Beckham hits for the rest of the season before declaring the return of Bacon.

You don't seem to be including defense in your assessment, he's been very good at 2nd all season, even when he was struggling at the plate. And he's only going to get better.
I didn't bother including his defense because offense heavily outweighs defense when it comes to player values. Otherwise, Jordan Danks would have already made his way up here and Viciedo would be rotting in the minors. If the stick is good, they will find a way to get that bat into the lineup. The same cannot be said for defense.

He had a very nice 2009 rookie season, he struggled April-June (the worst was May, he hit .230's in April and June), and now it looks like he's made the right adjustments.
I really hope so, but I'm reserving my judgement until I see him keep this up.

The negative impact on our infield and starting rotation is not worth the upside Markakis brings to the offense.
Agreed. This team has enough holes already. Let's not try to create more by trying to fill one.

cws05champ
07-18-2010, 05:01 PM
What's ridiculous about it? A polished college player should not be struggling THIS bad in his second season after ripping through the minors and doing well in his first season. His value is still high, yes, but other teams easily can and will exploit Beckham's crap numbers to their advantage. Of course, Kenny can make a counterpoint by bringing up Beckham's potential and his relative inexperience in the pro ball. Then it all becomes a moot point and his value remains low to other teams relative to ours. Beckham's terrible season isn't giving us any leverage - in fact it puts us at a disadvantage - in trading negotiations. The only case where the other team will give us an equal exchange to Gordon Beckham would be if they truly believe Beckham will fully recover and start hitting like he was expected to.
Beckham so far 10 games in July: .353 Avg, .989 OPS, 2 HR 5 RBI not counting today. I know...sample size right? Well half a season is a bad sample size to sell low on the future of your team. Anyone who has watched baseball can give you many polished college players that have struggled in their sophomore year in the league. And any GM in the league knows this and would steal Beckham from the Sox if given the chance.

Um, no, that won't do it unless you are talking about John Danks not Jordan but even then the O's won't do it because Danks will be in his second year of arb already. Let's break down this package:

1) Beckham: Gordon had a lot of value coming into the season but right now, his value is really low. He won't get us much return unless the other team thinks they can fix him.
2) Hudson: Huddy's pretty good but he was never projected to be an ace, something he would have to be to be included in a trade for a guy like Markakis. He's a #3 at best and while there's nothing wrong with that, his trading value says otherwise.
3) Torres: 27. 'nuff said.
4) Danks: Jordan is crap. 4th OF at best. Zero value.

1) Beckham has similar value he had coming into the season because most GM's don't think/act like fans.
2) Hudson is our best SP prospect right now and while I wouldn't mind him in a deal for Markakis, not along WITH Beckham.
3) Randy Wells for the Cubs, 28yrs old in August...would you take Wells in the Sox rotation at 28. He came out of nowhere for the Cubs....not saying Torres would, or even have the chance with the Sox but he has some value.
4) Danks, he has some value, but will not bring back a premium player by himself.

Stop over reacting to a bad half of baseball by Beckham...if he is good as the Sox hope, trading him for Markakis would be a lateral move and you'd give up more prospects. Probably worse than a lateral move because Beckham plays a more important position in the IF.

Pablo_Honey
07-18-2010, 05:38 PM
Well half a season is a bad sample size to sell low on the future of your team.
Why do people think I'm advocating Beckham to be traded? I'll say it once and for all: I DON'T WANT BECKHAM TO BE TRADED! That's what I've been arguing this entire thread, for crying out loud. We'd not only be selling low on a potential franchise player, but we'd also be creating a gaping hole at second base. That is not worth Markakis. Now, what I was also aruging was Gordon's value and I'll explain that a little more down below.

Anyone who has watched baseball can give you many polished college players that have struggled in their sophomore year in the league.
True, and quite a few of them never surmounted to anything. Sophmore jinx is an interesting topic to debate about because there are a lot of anecdotal evidences to back up its existence but there are also cases where players actually improved in their second year (See: Price, David). According to my first year psych prof, the sophomore slump is a myth. The bottom line is, we can't tell whether or not this is a fluke or Gordon until we see more.

And any GM in the league knows this and would steal Beckham from the Sox if given the chance.
That's exactly what I said, maybe not word for word, but the idea is the same.

1) Beckham has similar value he had coming into the season because most GM's don't think/act like fans.
I already stated that I know Beckham still has good value from a pure potential standpoint but because of his bad season so far, Kenny would be selling low on him for the reasons you and I already mentioned - the GMs know better. You already admitted that we would be selling low on Beckham so how can you say his value is similar? Will he continue to be this bad down the stretch? Maybe, maybe not, who knows. But the fact remains his value IS low and that's why we would be selling low on him. How's that for tautology?


3) Randy Wells for the Cubs, 28yrs old in August...would you take Wells in the Sox rotation at 28. He came out of nowhere for the Cubs....not saying Torres would, or even have the chance with the Sox but he has some value.
I don't know, Wells does pitch in the NL and he's having an aight season so far so I wouldn't be so quick to take up on him. Here's the problem with this comparison: Wells is valuable NOW because he's pitched well enough for a good amount of time with an MLB team. Torres barely pitched in the MLB level unless one wants to make a case for his 28 innings of 6.00+ ERA ball and all its glory. Torres has marginal value and if he's involved in a trade for Markakis, he would just be a throw-in.

4) Danks, he has some value, but will not bring back a premium player by himself.
Nope, there is very little value in a college draftee who strikes out a ton whilst drawing few walks and hitting for very litte power, who also has questionable health and can't make a decent contact. Yes, he's speedy and plays a good centerfield but he also has weak arm. Like Torres, he's a throw-in.

Stop over reacting to a bad half of baseball by Beckham...if he is good as the Sox hope, trading him for Markakis would be a lateral move and you'd give up more prospects. Probably worse than a lateral move because Beckham plays a more important position in the IF.
Yeah, I'm overreacting but that's only because this team needs offense badly and Beckham hasn't helped with that (I know he's been swinging well lately but I'm not impressed yet). Maybe my expectations were way too high for him. We'll see how this season folds for him.

SCCWS
07-18-2010, 05:51 PM
You don't seem to be including defense in your assessment, he's been very good at 2nd all season, even when he was struggling at the plate. And he's only going to get better.

He had a very nice 2009 rookie season, he struggled April-June (the worst was May, he hit .230's in April and June), and now it looks like he's made the right adjustments.

.

Beckham is "hopefully" a future star w the White Sox and should not be traded. But open up your eyes.
He had 2 good months last year June and July--interleague play. He collapsed in August similiar to April-June this year.
He has made more errors this season than any 2nd baseman in the AL. He may develop into a good 2nd baseman but he is far from it right now.

WhiteSox5187
07-18-2010, 06:17 PM
We're not going to get Markakis, but how about a guy like Luke Scott? He could help the cause and let us get rid of Kotsay!

Tragg
07-18-2010, 06:23 PM
Riiiiight, because what he's done in the last 3 WEEKS clearly makes his numbers in the first three MONTHS invalid.
On what planet are baseball players robots and never get into slumps? Sample size his high school, college and minor league career. Sample size little league in there too while you're at it.
As I said above: This is just ridiculous.

BringHomeDaBacon
07-18-2010, 08:06 PM
Riiiiight, because what he's done in the last 3 WEEKS clearly makes his numbers in the first three MONTHS invalid. This kind of thinking is the exact reason why people said Paulie choked in the last game even when he's driven in all the Sox runs that game. I'd be happy to see Gordon come around but unless he can keep this up for the rest of the season, he's still having a bad season and that doesn't change based on a 3 week sample.

And you want the first three MONTHS to invalidate his ENTIRE LIFE.

BadBobbyJenks
07-18-2010, 09:43 PM
Markakis gets worse every year. Overrated.

PhillipsBubba
07-18-2010, 10:08 PM
I like Markakis, but that's way to much to give up...

doublem23
07-18-2010, 10:09 PM
And you want the first three MONTHS to invalidate his ENTIRE LIFE.

Major League Baseball is not High School baseball

Frater Perdurabo
07-18-2010, 10:24 PM
The Sox either don't have, or can't afford to give up, what Baltimore would want/need/demand for Markakis.

I wonder if KW's best shot would be to make another waiver claim deal to acquire a talented but pricey player, like Rios last year?

I am certain the Orioles would not let Markakis leave on a waiver claim, though.

Pablo_Honey
07-18-2010, 10:24 PM
On what planet are baseball players robots and never get into slumps? Sample size his high school, college and minor league career. Sample size little league in there too while you're at it.
As I said above: This is just ridiculous.
Oh let's just make Hall of Fame plaques for EVERY SINGLE ****ING PLAYER WHO HAS ONE ****ING GOOD ROOKIE YEAR. Major League is a completely different level of competition from other leagues. ANY ****ING THING CAN HAPPEN. Let's look at our crosstown rival's fan favourite Kosuke Fukudome. He has a long track record of being a bona-fide slugger in Japan. What happens when he gets here? He's an overpaid piece of **** who can't hit for power. Oh but no, he's just slumping. His power will eventually come back. Am I doing this right?

You keep harping on how he is coming around based on a 3 week sample and yet you dismiss a 3 month sample as a mere slump. Going by "What have you done for me lately?" attitude is just simply stupid because this game is easily prone to hot and cold streaks. For Gordon to have continued his cold streak for three months is alarming. Maybe he will shake it off and go on to have a nice season. Do I know? No, I don't ****ing know. But the fact remains he's been crap more than he's been good this season. Does that hurt his value? Yes. Does that mean the Sox should trade him? ABSO-****ING-LUTELY NO.

And you want the first three MONTHS to invalidate his ENTIRE LIFE.
What the **** are you talking about? Did I say Gordon Beckham is a piece of **** hot garbage? No. Did I say Gordon Beckham has ****ed up his baseball career? No. Did I ****ing say his life is ****ing worthless because he ****ing stunk up the joint for three months? **** **** **** **** NO. WHERE THE **** DID I SAY HIS POOR START TO THE SEASON INVALIDATED HIS WHOLE LIFE?

You two make it sound like I'm dismissing Beckham as a capable baseball player. If you took time to read my posts, it's ****ing clear I don't think that way. I was merely stating how his poor start to the season has made it harder to trade him for good value, so we should keep him instead of selling low. Look, I'm not better than any of you so pardon me for sounding all condescending and all, but I enjoy debating instead of doing those one liner combacks that pick on easily exploitable parts and leaving out the rest.

pythons007
07-18-2010, 10:27 PM
I don't like Markakis at all. He has no power, doesn't steal bases at all, and doesn't drive in enough runs for an asking price of what people are willing to offer. I don't care if he plays on Baltimore or not. His home park isn't a pitchers park so his numbers aren't even that exciting on a ****crapass team.

pythons007
07-18-2010, 10:31 PM
Oh let's just make Hall of Fame plaques for EVERY SINGLE ****ING PLAYER WHO HAS ONE ****ING GOOD ROOKIE YEAR. Major League is a completely different level of competition from other leagues. ANY ****ING THING CAN HAPPEN. Let's look at our crosstown rival's fan favourite Kosuke Fukudome. He has a long track record of being a bona-fide slugger in Japan. What happens when he gets here? He's an overpaid piece of **** who can't hit for power. Oh but no, he's just slumping. His power will eventually come back. Am I doing this right?

You keep harping on how he is coming around based on a 3 week sample and yet you dismiss a 3 month sample as a mere slump. Going by "What have you done for me lately?" attitude is just simply stupid because this game is easily prone to hot and cold streaks. For Gordon to have continued his cold streak for three months is alarming. Maybe he will shake it off and go on to have a nice season. Do I know? No, I don't ****ing know. But the fact remains he's been crap more than he's been good this season. Does that hurt his value? Yes. Does that mean the Sox should trade him? ABSO-****ING-LUTELY NO.


What the **** are you talking about? Did I say Gordon Beckham is a piece of **** hot garbage? No. Did I say Gordon Beckham has ****ed up his baseball career? No. Did I ****ing say his life is ****ing worthless because he ****ing stunk up the joint for three months? **** **** **** **** NO. WHERE THE **** DID I SAY HIS POOR START TO THE SEASON INVALIDATED HIS WHOLE LIFE?

You two make it sound like I'm dismissing Beckham as a capable baseball player. If you took time to read my posts, it's ****ing clear I don't think that way. I was merely stating how his poor start to the season has made it harder to trade him for good value, so we should keep him instead of selling low. Look, I'm not better than any of you so pardon me for sounding all condescending and all, but I enjoy debating instead of doing those one liner combacks that pick on easily exploitable parts and leaving out the rest.

Wow, now thats a Lee Elia tirade!!!! I think, you may need a timeout or a perscription for some ritalin!!!!

...
07-18-2010, 11:18 PM
Oh let's just make Hall of Fame plaques for EVERY SINGLE ****ING PLAYER WHO HAS ONE ****ING GOOD ROOKIE YEAR. Major League is a completely different level of competition from other leagues. ANY ****ING THING CAN HAPPEN. Let's look at our crosstown rival's fan favourite Kosuke Fukudome. He has a long track record of being a bona-fide slugger in Japan. What happens when he gets here? He's an overpaid piece of **** who can't hit for power. Oh but no, he's just slumping. His power will eventually come back. Am I doing this right?

You keep harping on how he is coming around based on a 3 week sample and yet you dismiss a 3 month sample as a mere slump. Going by "What have you done for me lately?" attitude is just simply stupid because this game is easily prone to hot and cold streaks. For Gordon to have continued his cold streak for three months is alarming. Maybe he will shake it off and go on to have a nice season. Do I know? No, I don't ****ing know. But the fact remains he's been crap more than he's been good this season. Does that hurt his value? Yes. Does that mean the Sox should trade him? ABSO-****ING-LUTELY NO.


What the **** are you talking about? Did I say Gordon Beckham is a piece of **** hot garbage? No. Did I say Gordon Beckham has ****ed up his baseball career? No. Did I ****ing say his life is ****ing worthless because he ****ing stunk up the joint for three months? **** **** **** **** NO. WHERE THE **** DID I SAY HIS POOR START TO THE SEASON INVALIDATED HIS WHOLE LIFE?

You two make it sound like I'm dismissing Beckham as a capable baseball player. If you took time to read my posts, it's ****ing clear I don't think that way. I was merely stating how his poor start to the season has made it harder to trade him for good value, so we should keep him instead of selling low. Look, I'm not better than any of you so pardon me for sounding all condescending and all, but I enjoy debating instead of doing those one liner combacks that pick on easily exploitable parts and leaving out the rest.

Haha

Zisk77
07-18-2010, 11:38 PM
mlbtraderumors indicates that Lynch will move anyone on the Orioles roster. I know this isnt going to be popular, but I think a trade of Beckham, Hudson, Carlos Torres, and Danks plus a couple of lesser prospects would land Markakis. Markakis is set to make 10mil next year. Hes 26, All-Star, LH bat, Gold glove RF, hits .300. His power numbers are down, but playing at the cell will elevate them.
The Orioles will not contend for years in that division. They need pitching prospects. With Rios and Markais in the outfield, we would have one of the best defensive outfields in baseball. Quentin could then move to DH and prolong his career.
I dont like the idea of trading Beckham, but if he helps you get a young all star in return, I would make the move. Markakis is signed for a long term deal.
Any Thoughts?


I know this is a popular belief, but not logical in this case as Baltimore's short porch in RF and low fences every where else are more inviting than the cell. Coming to the cell should not help his power numbers.

Slappy
07-19-2010, 12:10 AM
mlbtraderumors indicates that Lynch will move anyone on the Orioles roster. I know this isnt going to be popular, but I think a trade of Beckham, Hudson, Carlos Torres, and Danks plus a couple of lesser prospects would land Markakis.

I think that's a bit much.

40 runs, 6 hr, 31 rbi, 3 sb a .304 avg and 847 ops

He's not exactly a power bat, but he is a lefty...

Hudson and Torres I have no problem with, but I still am not sure what to really make of Beckham and to a lesser extent Danks. I'd like to hang onto them and find out before giving them up for someone like Markakis. Beckham and Danks alone I think could land us something much much better.

soxfanreggie
07-19-2010, 01:18 AM
I believe that would be too much to give up. We also don't really need another bat in the OF right now vs other needs, unless you were moving TCQ to DH full time to fit in Markakis' LH bat.

oeo
07-19-2010, 02:07 AM
Markakis gets worse every year. Overrated.

Thank you. Extremely overrated considering some of the posts in this thread. I don't know why WSI loves him so much. Two years ago, he was trending upwards and people thought he would be one of the next big things. He hasn't become that, so why act like he has?

harwar
07-19-2010, 07:17 AM
"Beckham" is how every trade discussion starts with the White Sox .. people all over baseball can see what he has waiting to blossom .. no way Gordon gets included in any trade .. i would like to know the total package that Seattle was asking for to get Lee .. even knowing that Beckham may very well become a perennial all star it must have been difficult not to pull the trigger ..

doublem23
07-19-2010, 08:52 AM
Thank you. Extremely overrated considering some of the posts in this thread. I don't know why WSI loves him so much. Two years ago, he was trending upwards and people thought he would be one of the next big things. He hasn't become that, so why act like he has?

Yeah, where would we ever find at bats for a guy with an .830 OPS?

Craig Grebeck
07-19-2010, 08:55 AM
Yeah, where would we ever find at bats for a guy with an .830 OPS?
I'm guessing he's taking issue with the group who thinks it would take either "Danks and Floyd" or "Hudson, Beckham, etc."

It wouldn't. He's a fine player. He's not a superstar.

khan
07-19-2010, 10:23 AM
Threads like this are why many of us favored doing something about the lack of a LH power bat this PAST OFFSEASON, not now.

BadBobbyJenks
07-19-2010, 12:07 PM
I'm guessing he's taking issue with the group who thinks it would take either "Danks and Floyd" or "Hudson, Beckham, etc."

It wouldn't. He's a fine player. He's not a superstar.

That is all I am saying. He would look mighty fine hitting 2nd in our lineup, but not at a superstar's ransom.

LoveYourSuit
07-19-2010, 12:23 PM
I don't understand the Markakis love.

His power numbers suck from a corner OF position, and this playing in a hitter's paradise in Baltimore.


We need a run producer for the middle of the order, that's it.

doublem23
07-19-2010, 12:39 PM
I don't understand the Markakis love.

His power numbers suck from a corner OF position, and this playing in a hitter's paradise in Baltimore.


We need a run producer for the middle of the order, that's it.

Hitter's paradise? Camden Yard's multiyear Park Factor indicates it's basically a dead-even hitters/pitchers park. And the guy is still 26, plays good defense, and has a slugging percentage of .450 which would fit nicely in our lineup especially considering he's left handed.

Craig Grebeck
07-19-2010, 01:05 PM
Hitter's paradise? Camden Yard's multiyear Park Factor indicates it's basically a dead-even hitters/pitchers park. And the guy is still 26, plays good defense, and has a slugging percentage of .450 which would fit nicely in our lineup especially considering he's left handed.
And that's a fine argument. But he's not worth what you proposed. He's not worth anything near that.

doublem23
07-19-2010, 01:15 PM
And that's a fine argument. But he's not worth what you proposed. He's not worth anything near that.

Oh, obviously, there just seems to be a segment of the population here who thinks Markakis sucks.

BadBobbyJenks
07-19-2010, 01:20 PM
Oh, obviously, there just seems to be a segment of the population here who thinks Markakis sucks.

Overrated =/= Sucks

LoveYourSuit
07-19-2010, 01:25 PM
Oh, obviously, there just seems to be a segment of the population here who thinks Markakis sucks.


I don't think anyone has said he sucks as a ML Player.

I think for a corner OF, his power numbers suck. He is still a good ML player, but I think not the guy we are looking for to fix our gaping hole in the middle of the order. And definately not for the price being proposed.

No Thanks

palehozenychicty
07-19-2010, 01:52 PM
I'm guessing he's taking issue with the group who thinks it would take either "Danks and Floyd" or "Hudson, Beckham, etc."

It wouldn't. He's a fine player. He's not a superstar.

Exactly. He's not going to carry your team, but is a solid player.