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View Full Version : What is wrong with the St. Louis Cardinals?


Viva Medias B's
07-12-2010, 10:29 AM
In the weak division that is the NL Central, one would think the St. Louis Cardinals are good enough to dominate that division. However, the Redbirds find themselves at the break two games off the pace behind the Cincinnati Reds. I personally believe that Dusty's Reds will not last and that St. Louis will eventually win the division, but the Cardinals have been playing lackluster for quite a while. Unlike our super comeback streak that has catapult us into first place, the Redbirds seem to be treading water.

doublem23
07-12-2010, 10:40 AM
It's probably because they've forked over 24 combined starts to Kyle Lohse, Blake Hawksworth, Jeff Suppan, Adam Ottavino, and P.J. Walters.

Honestly, the Cardinals can go **** themselves. Go Reds.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ALMcpiHd9s8/Siv8RTYUB6I/AAAAAAAAAAM/xMUl9RXZ2BI/s320/MrRedlegs1.jpg

BleacherBandit
07-12-2010, 11:06 AM
It's probably because they've forked over 24 combined starts to Kyle Lohse, Blake Hawksworth, Jeff Suppan, Adam Ottavino, and P.J. Walters.

Honestly, the Cardinals can go **** themselves. Go Reds.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ALMcpiHd9s8/Siv8RTYUB6I/AAAAAAAAAAM/xMUl9RXZ2BI/s320/MrRedlegs1.jpg

I agree. The Reds have a wonderful team with a lot of young talent. Votto, Stubbs, Bruce, and Wood should anchor a good team in Cincinnati for years to come. The Reds are just playing consistent baseball. If the Sox don't make it to the playoffs, I sure hope the Reds do. I'll be pulling for them.

g0g0
07-12-2010, 11:16 AM
it's probably because they've forked over 24 combined starts to kyle lohse, blake hawksworth, jeff suppan, adam ottavino, and p.j. Walters.

Honestly, the cardinals can go **** themselves. Go reds.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_almcpihd9s8/siv8rtyub6i/aaaaaaaaaam/xmul9rxz2bi/s320/mrredlegs1.jpg

+2

PKalltheway
07-12-2010, 11:30 AM
It's probably because they've forked over 24 combined starts to Kyle Lohse, Blake Hawksworth, Jeff Suppan, Adam Ottavino, and P.J. Walters.

Honestly, the Cardinals can go **** themselves. Go Reds.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ALMcpiHd9s8/Siv8RTYUB6I/AAAAAAAAAAM/xMUl9RXZ2BI/s320/MrRedlegs1.jpg
I agree. Plus, the Reds' offense has been pretty great this year, the Philly series nothwithstanding. They're first in the NL in runs scored, second in home runs, first in batting average and third in OBP. Their starting pitching has been pretty solid, too. If they can continue to rake, and if they continue to get some good outings from their starters, the Reds aren't going anywhere. I think this race might come down to the last weekend of the season.

Foulke You
07-12-2010, 11:42 AM
It's probably because they've forked over 24 combined starts to Kyle Lohse, Blake Hawksworth, Jeff Suppan, Adam Ottavino, and P.J. Walters.

Honestly, the Cardinals can go **** themselves. Go Reds.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ALMcpiHd9s8/Siv8RTYUB6I/AAAAAAAAAAM/xMUl9RXZ2BI/s320/MrRedlegs1.jpg

100% agree.

Moses_Scurry
07-12-2010, 11:44 AM
If the Sox can't win the World Series, I'm pulling for the Reds for no other reason than that the cub fans would have to watch Dusty Baker accept the trophy!

Johnny Mostil
07-12-2010, 04:28 PM
After 88 games, Cards don't look much different this year (47 wins) than they looked in 2009 (48 wins), 2008 (49 wins), 2007 (41 wins), or 2006 (49 wins).

That said, Go, Reds.

DirtySox
07-12-2010, 04:31 PM
The Reds are my NL team. They have been a pleasure to watch this year.

I'm surprised and pleased at the Reds love in this thread. :)

Johnny Mostil
07-12-2010, 04:47 PM
The Reds are my NL team. They have been a pleasure to watch this year.

I'm surprised and pleased at the Reds love in this thread. :)

Cincinnati native born the year Rose first made the team . . .

fox23
07-12-2010, 05:55 PM
It's probably because they've forked over 24 combined starts to Kyle Lohse, Blake Hawksworth, Jeff Suppan, Adam Ottavino, and P.J. Walters.

Honestly, the Cardinals can go **** themselves. Go Reds.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ALMcpiHd9s8/Siv8RTYUB6I/AAAAAAAAAAM/xMUl9RXZ2BI/s320/MrRedlegs1.jpg

-1. Go Cardinals.

Although I don't mind all that much if the Reds win the division instead.

HomeFish
07-12-2010, 05:57 PM
I like both the Cardinals and the Reds. I probably like the Cardinals a bit more, but I might want the Reds to win just for a change of pace.

Viva Medias B's
07-12-2010, 07:51 PM
I like the Redbirds because they are Illinois' National League team. We're obviously Illinois' American League team.

Johnny Mostil
07-12-2010, 09:28 PM
I like the Redbirds because they are Illinois' National League team. We're obviously Illinois' American League team.

Did the Mississippi River change course?

doublem23
07-13-2010, 12:44 AM
I like the Redbirds because they are Illinois' National League team. We're obviously Illinois' American League team.

:rolling:

What???????????

This is the biggest reach EVER for you in your neverending, crazy theories that absolutely ignore any sort of reality (please tell us again about the one where everyone in Phoenix is out to get everyone in Tucson... I'm sure the 1 week per year you spend in Arizona makes you a certified expert in all things political there, too).

Seriously, this is so fargone ridiculous, it's insane. The Cubs are Illinois' NL team. That's not even Geography 101, man. You have to know that just to get into Geography 101.

This lifelong resident of Illinois (yes, I even lived in the crappy part for a while) can tell you that the St. Louis Cardinals can go **** themselves. TRUST ME, any special bond you feel for the Cardinals is completely one-sided. All they see is our greys (on the oft chance we wear them) says, Chicago, and that's enough. They don't feel any mutual alliance against the Cubs. We're all the same to them. They hate us, too.

Thome_Fan
07-13-2010, 01:00 AM
:rolling:

What???????????

This is the biggest reach EVER for you in your neverending, crazy theories that absolutely ignore any sort of reality (please tell us again about the one where everyone in Phoenix is out to get everyone in Tucson... I'm sure the 1 week per year you spend in Arizona makes you a certified expert in all things political there, too).

Seriously, this is so fargone ridiculous, it's insane. The Cubs are Illinois' NL team. That's not even Geography 101, man. You have to know that just to get into Geography 101.

This lifelong resident of Illinois (yes, I even lived in the crappy part for a while) can tell you that the St. Louis Cardinals can go **** themselves. TRUST ME, any special bond you feel for the Cardinals is completely one-sided. All they see is our greys (on the oft chance we wear them) says, Chicago, and that's enough. They don't feel any mutual alliance against the Cubs. We're all the same to them. They hate us, too.

That's not true at all. I've lived in the Peoria area almost all my life. Almost EVERYWHERE around me it's Cubs/Cards. And they HATE each other. My Cardinal fan friends and I always gang up against the Cubs fans. In Champaign, Fox even plays Cardinals games over Chicago games if they're both on.

TDog
07-13-2010, 01:06 AM
:rolling:

What???????????

This is the biggest reach EVER for you in your neverending, crazy theories that absolutely ignore any sort of reality (please tell us again about the one where everyone in Phoenix is out to get everyone in Tucson... I'm sure the 1 week per year you spend in Arizona makes you a certified expert in all things political there, too).

Seriously, this is so fargone ridiculous, it's insane. The Cubs are Illinois' NL team. That's not even Geography 101, man. You have to know that just to get into Geography 101.

This lifelong resident of Illinois (yes, I even lived in the crappy part for a while) can tell you that the St. Louis Cardinals can go **** themselves.

The Cardinals are Southern Illinois's National League team, just as the White Sox are Northern (Northwestern at least) Indiana's American League team. The Reds are Southern and even Central Indiana's National League team. Before the resurgence of the Cubs at the end of the 1960s (corresponding with the end of a great Cardinals run), most of Illinois had more Cardinals fans than Cubs fans. The Cardinals were the team of Middle America, especially with KMOX covering their night games. I had an uncle who spent his entire life in Northwest Indiana, and he was a huge Cardinals fan.

For that matter, the Minnesota Twins are South Dakota's major league team. And when I was growing up in Indiana, I lived in Chicago Bulls country where no one cared about the Indiana Pacers.

Spend some time in these places and you'll know exactly what Viva is talking about.

doublem23
07-13-2010, 01:10 AM
Spend some time in these places and you'll know exactly what Viva is talking about.

I spent 7 glorious years in Central Illinois during, you know, contemporary times, so my analysis doesn't hinge on the way we wuz during the Eisenhower administration.

Anyone who would claim that the Cards are Illinois' NL team is totally and completely out of their mind and does not live in a time I generally like to refer to as "2010."

Rdy2PlayBall
07-13-2010, 01:16 AM
I like the Cards... and almost everyone I know does too. Even my Cubs fan friends. I'm a fan of them, and a fan of Pujols. I hope they pull this out.

Thome_Fan
07-13-2010, 01:27 AM
I spent 7 glorious years in Central Illinois during, you know, contemporary times, so my analysis doesn't hinge on the way we wuz during the Eisenhower administration.

Anyone who would claim that the Cards are Illinois' NL team is totally and completely out of their mind and does not live in a time I generally like to refer to as "2010."

Dude, I'm younger than you. Once you get to central Illinois and farther south, there are lots of Cards fans. And it makes sense. You like the team you're closer to. If you're in central Illinois, you pick one because you're right in the middle. And this is coming from someone who has lived 17 of my almost 21 years of life in Morton and Peoria.

doublem23
07-13-2010, 01:28 AM
Dude, I'm younger than you. Once you get to central Illinois and farther south, there are lots of Cards fans. And it makes sense. You like the team you're closer to. If you're in central Illinois, you pick one because you're right in the middle. And this is coming from someone who has lived 17 of my almost 21 years of life in Morton and Peoria.

I'm not saying there aren't Cardinal fans in Central and Southern Illinois, I'm just saying it's silly to claim that makes them "Illinois' team."

Johnny Mostil
07-13-2010, 10:00 AM
All they see is our greys (on the oft chance we wear them) says, Chicago, and that's enough. They don't feel any mutual alliance against the Cubs. We're all the same to them. They hate us, too.

This. I've always thought the Cubs/Cards thing in many parts of the state is a pro/anti Chicago thing. Why they don't all see the light and become Sox fans I don't know, but, whatever.

Beyond that, I'm not sure I care who is Illinois's NL team. I suppose the Kane County Cougars are my west-suburban community's Midwest League team, but who would care about such a thing?

doublem23
07-13-2010, 10:12 AM
This. I've always thought the Cubs/Cards thing in many parts of the state is a pro/anti Chicago thing. Why they don't all see the light and become Sox fans I don't know, but, whatever.

Beyond that, I'm not sure I care who is Illinois's NL team. I suppose the Kane County Cougars are my west-suburban community's Midwest League team, but who would care about such a thing?

As a native Chicagoan, I feel personally insulted that just because a some farmers from Southern Illinois like an out-of-state team based on proximity, they suddenly are "Illinois' team," trumping another team (even though I don't like them) that's been playing in Chicago for over 100 years.

Now, I'm sure there are plenty of Cardinal fans out there who are sympathetic to the Sox, especially up in ThomeFan's corner of the woods, like Central Illinois, but I wouldn't say that's generally representative of all Cardinal fans, and you're correct, as you keep going deeper and deeper into the state, it's not so much Cubs/Cardinals as it is Chicago/anti-Chicago.

If you want to call the Cardinals "Downstate's team" that's fine, that's the reality of the situation, but to brand them the whole state's NL team is downright silly.

That, and I am also sick and tired of being told I have to like the Cardinals because we have an unreciprocated bond over our mutual disdain of the Cubs. For the record, the less I share in common with St. Louis people, the better off I feel.

Viva Medias B's
07-13-2010, 02:00 PM
The Cardinals have a very considerable territorial base in Illinois. South of I-80 and West of I-39, it's a whole bunch of Cardinal Nation out there.

havelj
07-13-2010, 02:39 PM
This might help:

http://cartophilia.com/blog/uploaded_images/nikeucob-713437.jpg

Johnny Mostil
07-13-2010, 02:55 PM
This might help:

http://cartophilia.com/blog/uploaded_images/nikeucob-713437.jpg

Something similar evident at http://www.commoncensus.org/sports_map.php?sport=2. Which, in determining "Illinois's NL team," would mean more to me if the population center of the state weren't the Cook County line.

chisox616
07-13-2010, 03:09 PM
I live in St. Louis as a Sox fan, and the most common phrase I hear is "Well, at least you're not a fan of the other Chicago team." I've NEVER heard ANYONE say to me something along the lines of "Who gives a crap? You're all from the same dump anyways."

In fact, the only time I've ever heard anyone insult Chicago to my face was at a Royals game... and I've been to plenty of Cubs/Cards games.

I feel like I'd be hearing those kind of insults if this was the early 20th Century, when the actual cities of St. Louis and Chicago had a rivalry...but no one cares anymore, it's just Cubs/Cards. St. Louis is obviously not the same type of city Chicago is.

Just throwing my 2 cents out there.

doublem23
07-13-2010, 03:17 PM
The Cardinals have a very considerable territorial base in Illinois. South of I-80 and West of I-39, it's a whole bunch of Cardinal Nation out there.

I-80? You are pushing that boundary way up to the north, I lived well south of I-80 for a while and it was still a Cub-dominated area. I'm not saying there are no Cardinal fans up there, but if you think they're the predominant team, you're crazy.

Cook County alone has over 41% of Illinois' population. Throw in the rest of the MSA counties and it's 61%. There is less than a 0% chance there are more Cardinal fans in Illinois than Cub.

jdm2662
07-13-2010, 03:21 PM
I live in St. Louis as a Sox fan, and the most common phrase I hear is "Well, at least you're not a fan of the other Chicago team." I've NEVER heard ANYONE say to me something along the lines of "Who gives a crap? You're all from the same dump anyways."

In fact, the only time I've ever heard anyone insult Chicago to my face was at a Royals game... and I've been to plenty of Cubs/Cards games.

I feel like I'd be hearing those kind of insults if this was the early 20th Century, when the actual cities of St. Louis and Chicago had a rivalry...but no one cares anymore, it's just Cubs/Cards. St. Louis is obviously not the same type of city Chicago is.

Just throwing my 2 cents out there.

The issue is more with Illinois than anything. Anyone outside of the Chicago metro area (whatever that is these days), hate everything Chicago. I would probably have to slate those in the 219, 618, 309 area codes. Of course, it doesn't help that some Chicago people think they are the **** and look down upon anyone not from the city. The attitude is equally as stupid and absurd on both sides.

doublem23
07-13-2010, 03:22 PM
The issue is more with Illinois than anything. Anyone outside of the Chicago metro area (whatever that is these days), hate everything Chicago. I would probably have to slate those in the 219, 618, 309 area codes. Of course, it doesn't help that some Chicago people think they are the **** and look down upon anyone not from the city. The attitude is equally as stupid and absurd on both sides.

If you guys would just realize how inferior you are to those of us from the city, this could be avoided. I'm not asking for a lot, just face reality.

:wink:

jdm2662
07-13-2010, 03:25 PM
If you guys would just realize how inferior you are to those of us from the city, this could be avoided. I'm not asking for a lot, just face reality.

:wink:

Thanks for proving my point... Forgive me that my parents didn't want to stay in Austin and raise me there. How dare they!

doublem23
07-13-2010, 03:29 PM
Thanks for proving my point... Forgive me that my parents didn't want to stay in Austin and raise me there. How dare they!

Just because you're parents erred, doesn't mean you have to keep living their mistake in suburbia.

:tongue:

I hope this is coming off as friendly teasing.

Johnny Mostil
07-13-2010, 03:32 PM
Just because you're parents erred, doesn't mean you have to keep living their mistake in suburbia.

:tongue:

I hope this is coming off as friendly teasing.

Lincoln Square? We don't all have the temperament to be missionaries up there . . . :wink:

jdm2662
07-13-2010, 03:40 PM
Just because you're parents erred, doesn't mean you have to keep living their mistake in suburbia.

:tongue:

I hope this is coming off as friendly teasing.

At least my high school owns the basketball conference. :redneck

We don't talk about football...

russ99
07-14-2010, 09:42 AM
The Astros are my NL team since the 70s, so I can't stand the Cardinals and Reds.

But the Reds fans have been through a long period of suffering, so I'd be happy if they won the division, but that's as far as I'd go.

Also, that territory map is ludicrous. Everyone knows northern Indiana is primarily Sox fans and not Cubs.

Railsplitter
07-14-2010, 10:39 AM
Outside of Pujols, I can't name anybody on the Cardinals.

Johnny Mostil
07-14-2010, 12:09 PM
Also, that territory map is ludicrous. Everyone knows northern Indiana is primarily Sox fans and not Cubs.

That's OK. It gave the Sox a large chunk of Northern Illinois I hadn't realized they had.:wink: