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Brian26
07-11-2010, 09:46 PM
I'm curious if anyone else has noticed this...

If the Sox win the game on a strikeout with AJ behind the plate, AJ turns around and pats the homeplate umpire on the chest with his glove after the strikeout to say "good game".

Sometimes the ump acknowledges it, and sometimes it takes him by surprise. It's something to keep an eye on though. I'm not sure AJ does this if he's not happy with the hpu's performance. I've seen it at least a dozen times this year though.

Coops4Aces
07-11-2010, 10:26 PM
I'm curious if anyone else has noticed this...

If the Sox win the game on a strikeout with AJ behind the plate, AJ turns around and pats the homeplate umpire on the chest with his glove after the strikeout to say "good game".

Sometimes the ump acknowledges it, and sometimes it takes him by surprise. It's something to keep an eye on though. I'm not sure AJ does this if he's not happy with the hpu's performance. I've seen it at least a dozen times this year though.

Good observation Brian. I have noticed this many times including today. I thought maybe it was like a "good series, cya later" type of thing.

Chez
07-12-2010, 05:23 PM
I've noticed it too. I haven't seen any other catchers do this.

fram40
07-12-2010, 08:51 PM
I've noticed it too. I haven't seen any other catchers do this.

must be why AJ can fool the umps into those questionable calls ...

Brian26
07-12-2010, 09:04 PM
Good observation Brian. I have noticed this many times including today. I thought maybe it was like a "good series, cya later" type of thing.

I've noticed it too. I haven't seen any other catchers do this.

Only two other people noticed this? I must watch Sox games too intently. :tongue:

hi im skot
07-12-2010, 09:22 PM
Only two other people noticed this? I must watch Sox games too intently. :tongue:

I've noticed it, too, so you're not totally crazy.

BeeBeeRichard
07-12-2010, 09:22 PM
Yeah, saw this maybe about a week ago.When seeing it "live," I recalled that there was an episode earlier in the game where the HP ump had given the Sox the benefit of the doubt on a call, but now can't remember the exact details.

Another weird thing that I've seen at least Carlos Q doing -- pointing down to the first base ump on a check swing to appeal, basically saying "I don't think I swung, and you shouldn't either." I've seen it for the first time recently from a couple of other hitters.

fram40
07-12-2010, 09:33 PM
Another weird thing that I've seen at least Carlos Q doing -- pointing down to the first base ump on a check swing to appeal, basically saying "I don't think I swung, and you shouldn't either." I've seen it for the first time recently from a couple of other hitters.

I've seen that also recently from Q. Once, yesterday, on the same checked swing, both catcher and Q tried to appeal to the 1st base umpire. I think Q got the call.

GoGoCrede
07-12-2010, 09:41 PM
Only two other people noticed this? I must watch Sox games too intently. :tongue:

I notice when he slams his helmet down in anger.

Coops4Aces
07-12-2010, 09:51 PM
I've seen that also recently from Q. Once, yesterday, on the same checked swing, both catcher and Q tried to appeal to the 1st base umpire. I think Q got the call.

He did, but I'm not a fan. I think the ump would be more inclined to call a strike. It's kind of like showing up the umpire.

WhiteSox5187
07-12-2010, 10:01 PM
Only two other people noticed this? I must watch Sox games too intently. :tongue:

I noticed that yesterday at the game.

Nellie_Fox
07-13-2010, 12:54 AM
He did, but I'm not a fan. I think the ump would be more inclined to call a strike. It's kind of like showing up the umpire.
I've never understood why the catcher can ask for an appeal to the baseline ump, but the hitter can't.

Irishsoxfan
07-13-2010, 08:10 AM
I've never understood why the catcher can ask for an appeal to the baseline ump, but the hitter can't.

I would assume it is because in most cases the umpire would have already given the strike call before a hitter has the cahnce to appeal and isn't going to be shown up by overturning it. The ball call and subsequent appeal appears to the observer to be a more natural process. Just my guess.

Milw
07-13-2010, 02:19 PM
I would assume it is because in most cases the umpire would have already given the strike call before a hitter has the cahnce to appeal and isn't going to be shown up by overturning it. The ball call and subsequent appeal appears to the observer to be a more natural process. Just my guess.
Good point. A ball call is passive--the umpire literally doesn't do anything--so having the base umpire "overturn" it isn't really showing the plate umpire up. Not so with the reverse.

Nellie_Fox
07-13-2010, 11:55 PM
I would assume it is because in most cases the umpire would have already given the strike call before a hitter has the cahnce to appeal and isn't going to be shown up by overturning it. The ball call and subsequent appeal appears to the observer to be a more natural process. Just my guess.

Good point. A ball call is passive--the umpire literally doesn't do anything--so having the base umpire "overturn" it isn't really showing the plate umpire up. Not so with the reverse.But the only question is whether he swung or not; the first/third base ump can't overturn the call about whether the ball was in the zone. The catcher wouldn't point down if the ump hadn't called it a ball, and everyone knows it.

If their egos are so fragile that they don't want their strike call reversed by an appeal play, all they have to do is say they called it on the strike zone, not the swing, and the strike stands. I'm just saying if there's a question of whether there was a checked swing or not, only allowing the defense to appeal is biased.

Irishsoxfan
07-14-2010, 03:16 AM
I think we are all saying the same thing, that it is more to do with how it looks than getting the call right. From the umpires perspective it just appears worse to have the strike call overturned than the more passive ball call. Calling it as a strike in the zone in situations where the ball is clearly ouside isn't going to help the umpires ego either I'm afraid. An umpire can excuse himself from not seeing the swing because he was looking at the ball but he isn't likely to ask for help when he already has decided that the batter swung.

Nellie_Fox
07-14-2010, 11:53 PM
I guess I care more about the call being right than having the umpires' egos preserved. And it just seems wrong to allow the defense to appeal (which they always do, since they have nothing to lose) but not the offense.

lukeman89
07-15-2010, 02:45 PM
it is my understanding that catchers dont ask for an appeal to the baseline ump. he can show that he wants an appeal, but the homeplate umpire ultimately is the one who asks the baseline ump for his opinion on the call. i have seen numerous times where the catcher points down to the ump but the homeplate ump doesnt think he needs help with the call so he doesnt ask, and nothing happens



edit:
9.02c - If a decision is appealed, the umpire making the decision may ask another umpire for information before making a final decision. No umpire shall criticize, seek to reverse or interfere with another umpire's decision unless asked to do so by the umpire making it.
The manager or the catcher may request the plate umpire to ask his partner for help on a half swing when the plate umpire calls the pitch a ball, but not when the pitch is called a strike. The manager may not complain that the umpire made an improper call, but only that he did not ask his partner for help. Field umpires must be alerted to the request from the plate umpire and quickly respond. Managers may not protest the call of a ball or strike on the pretense they are asking for information about a half swing.
Appeals on a half swing may be made only on the call of ball and when asked to appeal, the home plate umpire must refer to a base umpire for his judgment on the half swing. Should the base umpire call the pitch a strike, the strike call shall prevail.

Nellie_Fox
07-15-2010, 11:49 PM
it is my understanding that catchers dont ask for an appeal to the baseline ump. he can show that he wants an appeal, but the homeplate umpire ultimately is the one who asks the baseline ump for his opinion on the call. i have seen numerous times where the catcher points down to the ump but the homeplate ump doesnt think he needs help with the call so he doesnt ask, and nothing happens



edit:
9.02c -I understand all that, but the hitter can't even ask. He'll be ignored always.

Sam Spade
07-15-2010, 11:53 PM
I understand all that, but the hitter can't even ask. He'll be ignored always.
Carlos hasn't been ignored yet, has he?

I don't see the difference you are hinting at. From what I've seen, when the batter or the catcher asks the home plate ump to appeal to first, he appeals to first.

Nellie_Fox
07-15-2010, 11:56 PM
Carlos hasn't been ignored yet, has he?

I don't see the difference you are hinting at. From what I've seen, when the batter or the catcher asks the home plate ump to appeal to first, he appeals to first.I've never seen the umpire honor an appeal from a batter. The rule quoted above says that there can be no appeal on a strike call, which is when the hitter would want the home-plate ump to ask for help.

bigdommer
07-16-2010, 09:22 AM
The whole check swing is arbitrary anyway. Announcers/fans always look at if he went halfway, broke his wrists, or if the bat head crossed the plate, etc. The only words in the rulebook about check swings refer to the umpire's judgment if a batter "made an attempt to strike the ball." So, I have never understood why the first base ump (right handed batter) would have any better idea if the batter made an attempt than the home plate ump. By asking for an appeal, the home plate ump is basically saying, "I wasn't watching the batter, I was watching the pitch, so I have no idea." In that case, which is reasonable, the 2nd base ump and third base ump are both watching the batter with the same intent. It should have nothing to do with angles.

The rule is applied more judiciously when in comes to bunt attempts. Umpires usually get this one right when a guy stabs at a ball and then pulls the bat back. The umpire will call a strike, because he "made an attempt to strike the ball" regardless what he did with the bat afterwards.