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View Full Version : The guy I want the Sox to get is available..


Rockabilly
07-08-2010, 01:21 PM
The Phillies are looking to trading Jayson Werth and are talking to several teams. He would be a great RF and than the Sox can make Q the DH..

Source- Ken Rosenthal is reporting that Werth is on the trading block.

Rockabilly
07-08-2010, 01:23 PM
here is another article about Werth

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post/Phillies-on-the-verge-of-getting-rid-of-Jayson-W;_ylt=AlEX1au6buwnWETwVpSafUaFCLcF?urn=mlb,253871

Crede24Thome25
07-08-2010, 01:29 PM
Where ever he lands, he's looking for a huge contract.

Rockabilly
07-08-2010, 01:32 PM
Where ever he lands, he's looking for a huge contract.


Would a Jenks & mid level prospect be enough to get Werth? I rather spend 10-11M on Werth next season than Bobby.

I would make Putz or Matt the closer

DirtySox
07-08-2010, 01:35 PM
Would a Jenks & mid level prospect be enough to get Werth?

Nope.

Rockabilly
07-08-2010, 01:38 PM
Nope.


The Phillies aren't to happy with Lidge and they will have their new closer for next season while Werth will be leaving them in a few months..

Crede24Thome25
07-08-2010, 01:40 PM
The Phillies aren't to happy with Lidge and they will have their new closer for next season while Werth will be leaving them in a few months..
They'd probably want Jenks and or Putz and a prospect.

DirtySox
07-08-2010, 01:41 PM
The Phillies aren't to happy with Lidge and they will have their new closer for next season while Werth will be leaving them in a few months..

Jenks has no surplus value at what he is paid. Werth will be a Type A free agent and without question will offered arbitration as he is set on exploring free agency. He will command as much as Washington is seeking for Dunn or likely more, considering he actually has some defensive value.

Rockabilly
07-08-2010, 01:42 PM
They'd probably want Jenks and or Putz and a prospect.


if they want Bobby and lets say Jordan. I would make that trade in a heart beat, if we can extend Jayson contract.

DirtySox
07-08-2010, 01:44 PM
if they want Bobby and lets say Jordan. I would make that trade in a heart beat, if we can extend Jayson contract.

Lol.

Jordan isn't worth ****.

Crede24Thome25
07-08-2010, 01:46 PM
:rolling:Lol.

Jordan isn't worth ****.

Rockabilly
07-08-2010, 01:47 PM
Lol.

Jordan isn't worth ****.

than give them Dayan. As long as Werth will extend his contract..

Jayson would be huge for us in the playoff run

DirtySox
07-08-2010, 01:52 PM
:rolling:


Agree or disagree?

Jordan Danks has a 30%+ K-rate in Triple A. The K/BB ratio is terrible. That is only going to be exacerbated in the big leagues. He isn't even close to a power hitter. He isn't even hitting for average. He profiles as a 4th outfielder with good defense.

DirtySox
07-08-2010, 01:58 PM
than give them Dayan. As long as Werth will extend his contract..

Jayson would be huge for us in the playoff run

I would love a Werth pickup, but I think the conversation starts with Hudson+. If Werth is indeed available, there will be plenty of teams interested driving up the price.

In regards to extending him, there have been quite a few reports saying that he wants to sign with the Yankees, and the Yankees are very interested in locking him up. There is no doubt he is going to explore free agency.

Crede24Thome25
07-08-2010, 02:03 PM
Agree or disagree?

Jordan Danks has a 30%+ K-rate in Triple A. The K/BB ratio is terrible. That is only going to be exacerbated in the big leagues. He isn't even close to a power hitter. He isn't even hitting for average. He profiles as a 4th outfielder with good defense.
I agree 100%, the way you said it just cracked me up. However he could be worth something, you never know.

DirtySox
07-08-2010, 02:06 PM
I agree 100%, the way you said it just cracked me up. However he could be worth something, you never know.

Gotcha. I think he is a throw-in. He certainly isn't headlining a deal. I think he has more value together with his brother and the Sox, as a 4th outfielder/defensive replacement.

Edit: The way I said it was dick-like. For that I apologize.

SephClone89
07-08-2010, 03:25 PM
I heard he's on the block because he's been sleeping with Chase Utley's wife.

http://www.phightinphils.com/2010/07/jayson-werth-and-jennifer-utley-having-an-affair.html

Jayson heard what happened in English football this past season, and said to himself "if John Terry can do it, so can I!"

johnnyg83
07-08-2010, 03:51 PM
The double entendre/NY Post hedline possibilities are staggering.

Lillian
07-08-2010, 07:50 PM
I'll repeat my mantra. He is another right handed bat.
Moreover, the Sox no longer have the luxury of trading our best pitching prospect.

This will not happen. If K. W. acquires any offensive player of Werth's calibre, it will be a left handed bat.

Interesting to note that Werth's numbers vs. RH pitching are not any better than Teahen's. And none of us are too enthused about Teahen.

This idea makes very little sense to me.

bridgeportcopper
07-08-2010, 07:54 PM
Gotcha. I think he is a throw-in. He certainly isn't headlining a deal. I think he has more value together with his brother and the Sox, as a 4th outfielder/defensive replacement.

Edit: The way I said it was dick-like. For that I apologize.
The way you said it reminded me of a former
Sox outfielder, now plying his trade as a pitcher in the Kansas City Royal organization.:D:

balke
07-08-2010, 09:05 PM
I don't see this happening - but will say that Werth is from Springfield IL and the Sox popularity would rise substantially state wide if they got him on the team.

South of Chicago its all about Cards and Cubs. Werth would be a big draw for the Sox fan wise.

kittle42
07-08-2010, 09:21 PM
I don't see this happening - but will say that Werth is from Springfield IL and the Sox popularity would rise substantially state wide if they got him on the team.

South of Chicago its all about Cards and Cubs. Werth would be a big draw for the Sox fan wise.

Really? I seriously doubt anyone will care. I don't even know where half the players on my favorite team are from.

balke
07-08-2010, 09:36 PM
Really? I seriously doubt anyone will care. I don't even know where half the players on my favorite team are from.


Its a bigger deal outside of Chicago area. And you aren't everyone. I know a lot of people who wanted Thome on the Cubs or Sox for years being from Peoria. Maybe you should do some research and find out where they are from though!

Tragg
07-08-2010, 09:38 PM
He's a rent.
You dont' trade top prospects for a rent.
I like the Jenks idea. Our rent for yours.

balke
07-08-2010, 09:43 PM
He's a rent.
You dont' trade top prospects for a rent.
I like the Jenks idea. Our rent for yours.

In any deal - I think the Sox are more likely to give up Putz. Cheaper contract - better results. Nothing wrong with Jenks right now - but Putz has the numbers and the contract to trade if the Sox really want a good bat.

DSpivack
07-08-2010, 09:57 PM
Its a bigger deal outside of Chicago area. And you aren't everyone. I know a lot of people who wanted Thome on the Cubs or Sox for years being from Peoria. Maybe you should do some research and find out where they are from though!

Well, okay, how much did the Sox popularity increase in Peoria? And did that help the team's attendance, ratings, or merchandise sales?

Zisk77
07-08-2010, 10:00 PM
I wouldn't want to give up anyone in the pen except Linebrink or Pena as our games our essentially 6 innngs long right now and we are going to have to lean even heavier on the pen as the "dog days" approach.

balke
07-08-2010, 10:06 PM
Well, okay, how much did the Sox popularity increase in Peoria? And did that help the team's attendance, ratings, or merchandise sales?

That's not really the point I was making - but who knows. Its a lot different when you acquire a past his prime hall of famer who's already set to go into the hall as a an Indian - and getting a younger journeyman player from Illinois who's been doing great.

I know a ton of people who wanted Mcnabb to play here for years - A lot of people were ecstatic over Rose coming to Chicago. People like hometown heroes - see the unhealthy obsession with John Ely.

In an area that has about 12 White Sox fans - and knowing his popularity in the area already - there'd be a crap load of Springfield area Sox fans sprouting up.

doublem23
07-09-2010, 12:14 AM
Well, okay, how much did the Sox popularity increase in Peoria? And did that help the team's attendance, ratings, or merchandise sales?

Sox merch. in Peoria definitely increased thanks to Thome's presence. When I first moved down there in 2002, it was all Cardinals and Cubs. By the time I left, Sox stuff was still a distant 3rd to the two local favorites, but you could find in in stores.

harwar
07-09-2010, 06:20 AM
As things stand right now,i sure wouldn't want to break up the last 3 in our BP .. i believe that having a bottom end like Thornton,Putz,& Jenks will be instrumental in our fight for the pennant and beyond

Craig Grebeck
07-09-2010, 12:07 PM
Do not want.

Rockabilly
07-20-2010, 11:28 PM
it looks like that the Phillies might be trading Werth in the very near future.. So Philly can make another trade for Roy Oswalt.

Rockabilly
07-20-2010, 11:29 PM
http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/19047248175

http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/19047287311

Tragg
07-20-2010, 11:34 PM
Werth is having a terrible year. Philly wants pitching back, which we don't have.

But my gosh, taking this contract can't cost that much in terms of talent, can it?

DSpivack
07-20-2010, 11:39 PM
Werth is having a terrible year. Philly wants pitching back, which we don't have.

But my gosh, taking this contract can't cost that much in terms of talent, can it?

:scratch:

He is? .280/.371/.502/.873 with 13 HRs and 50 RBIs? Did he start off cold and just get hot or something?

DirtySox
07-20-2010, 11:43 PM
Werth is having a terrible year. Philly wants pitching back, which we don't have.

But my gosh, taking this contract can't cost that much in terms of talent, can it?

.280/.371/.502 with decent defense is far from terrible. He's had a bad July, but he still has a .376 wOBA. By comparison, Mark Kotsay's is .301.

I'd take Werth in RF with Quentin at DH any day of the week. He would cost something significant because he will be a Type A free agent and is set on exploring free agency. If you can nab him for less than Dunn though, it's worth it IMO.

Lillian
07-21-2010, 12:02 AM
I'll repeat my mantra. He is another right handed bat.
Moreover, the Sox no longer have the luxury of trading our best pitching prospect.

This will not happen. If K. W. acquires any offensive player of Werth's calibre, it will be a left handed bat.

Interesting to note that Werth's numbers vs. RH pitching are not any better than Teahen's. And none of us are too enthused about Teahen.

This idea makes very little sense to me.

I'll simply quote myself from an earlier post in this thread.
I wouldn't keep repeating myself, if some of you would stop with these various suggestions for right handed hitters.
Kenny is not going to give up anything significant for another right handed bat.

Maybe I should put it another way. Does anyone really think that this team's weakness is its lack of right handed hitters? Rios, Quentin, Konerko, Ramirez and Beckham are not enough right handed offense for you?

If K.W. makes a significant trade, it will be for either another starter, or a LH, middle of the order bat.

DirtySox
07-21-2010, 12:06 AM
I'll simply quote myself from an earlier post in this thread.
I wouldn't keep repeating myself, if some of you would stop with these various suggestions for right handed hitters.
Kenny is not going to give up anything significant for another right handed bat.

I was waiting for this post. Broken record etc.

It's asinine to limit options to only LH hitters. This team desperately needs another good bat, no matter the handedness.

Have fun repeating yourself though.

kittle42
07-21-2010, 12:13 AM
I was waiting for this post. Broken record etc.

It's asinine to limit options to only LH hitters. This team desperately needs another good bat, no matter the handedness.

Have fun repeating yourself though.

Ditto. A good right-handed hitter is a far better option than a mediocre left-handed hitter, even if the entire rest of the lineup is right-handed.

Also, check out his splits for this season.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=werthja01&year=2010&t=b

Yes, an aberration from his career numbers, but still...

Rockabilly
07-21-2010, 12:14 AM
James Shields and a prospect might be the ones traded to Philly for Werth.

The Philly rotation would look like this.

Doc
Hamels
Oswalt
Shields

The rumor has it Happ and several other prospects to Houston for Oswalt

DirtySox
07-21-2010, 12:17 AM
James Shields and a prospect might be the ones traded to Philly for Werth.

The Philly rotation would look like this.

Doc
Hamels
Oswalt
Shields

The Rays have an embarrassment of riches with starting pitching, and SP prospects. Hellickson would slide into the rotation if Shields ships out.

Lillian
07-21-2010, 07:10 AM
I was waiting for this post. Broken record etc.

It's asinine to limit options to only LH hitters. This team desperately needs another good bat, no matter the handedness.

Have fun repeating yourself though.

It's comments like yours that make me have to repeat myself.
You are just mistaken. There is no way that the Sox trade for a RH hitter.
Continuing to advocate such an acquisition is much more "asinine".

soltrain21
07-21-2010, 08:16 AM
It's comments like yours that make me have to repeat myself.
You are just mistaken. There is no way that the Sox trade for a RH hitter.
Continuing to advocate such an acquisition is much more "asinine".

If you want to talk about repeating yourself, you haven't posted in your Juan Pierre thread in a while.

doublem23
07-21-2010, 08:25 AM
I'll simply quote myself from an earlier post in this thread.
I wouldn't keep repeating myself, if some of you would stop with these various suggestions for right handed hitters.
Kenny is not going to give up anything significant for another right handed bat.

Maybe I should put it another way. Does anyone really think that this team's weakness is its lack of right handed hitters? Rios, Quentin, Konerko, Ramirez and Beckham are not enough right handed offense for you?

If K.W. makes a significant trade, it will be for either another starter, or a LH, middle of the order bat.

News flash: You likely have as little information about what's up the Sox's sleeves as any of us. A left handed bat makes plenty of sense for a number of reasons, but if you honestly think the Sox offense is set the way it is no, you. are. crazy. We're playing Mark Kotsay everyday, for ****'s sake.

The Immigrant
07-21-2010, 08:30 AM
I'll simply quote myself from an earlier post in this thread.
I wouldn't keep repeating myself, if some of you would stop with these various suggestions for right handed hitters.

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/Rizzor/beatingadeadhorse.gif

Lillian
07-21-2010, 08:36 AM
News flash: You likely have as little information about what's up the Sox's sleeves as any of us. A left handed bat makes plenty of sense for a number of reasons, but if you honestly think the Sox offense is set the way it is no, you. are. crazy. We're playing Mark Kotsay everyday, for ****'s sake.

Yes, and the reason that we're playing Mark Kotsay, as bad as he is, is because they feel that they need to have a left handed bat in the middle of the line up. That is why if they trade for an offensive player, it will be a better LH bat, not another RH bat.

You don't need to have inside information, or be privy to management's private discussions in order to reach that conclusion. I'm not "crazy", and I don't think that you have offered a logical reason why they would aggressively pursue another right handed hitter, at this point.

doublem23
07-21-2010, 08:40 AM
Yes, and the reason that we're playing Mark Kotsay, as bad as he is, is because they feel that they need to have a left handed bat in the middle of the line up. That is why if they trade for an offensive player, it will be a better LH bat, not another RH bat.

You don't need to have inside information, or be privy to management's private discussions in order to reach that conclusion. I'm not "crazy", and I don't think that you have offered a logical reason why they would aggressively pursue another right handed hitter, at this point.

I've had to watch Mark Kotsay and Andruw Jones all year.

It's one thing to discuss your opinions but you've repeatedly belittled other posters for having that audacity to think that a good right handed hitter might be a better option than Kotsay for this team. You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but at least don't take this high road ****.

Domeshot17
07-21-2010, 08:44 AM
They are right. A good LH bat is choice 1, but with Mark Kotsay, beggers can't be chosers. A good RH hitter >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mark Kotsay (A ****ty LH hitter).

kittle42
07-21-2010, 09:53 AM
Yes, and the reason that we're playing Mark Kotsay, as bad as he is, is because they feel that they need to have a left handed bat in the middle of the line up. That is why if they trade for an offensive player, it will be a better LH bat, not another RH bat.

You don't need to have inside information, or be privy to management's private discussions in order to reach that conclusion. I'm not "crazy", and I don't think that you have offered a logical reason why they would aggressively pursue another right handed hitter, at this point.

They are playing Kotsay because they do not have an *obviously huge improvement* from the right side. Werth would provide that, and Kotsay would barely play.

Are you saying you think the Sox would be better off with a LH bat of Kotsay's type over a RH bat of Werth's type? Yikes!

Lillian
07-21-2010, 10:00 AM
They are playing Kotsay because they do not have an *obviously huge improvement* from the right side. Werth would provide that, and Kotsay would barely play.

Are you saying you think the Sox would be better off with a LH bat of Kotsay's type over a RH bat of Werth's type? Yikes!

No, I didn't say that, however there is little point in repeating what I did say. I suggest you simply read my previous numerous posts.

kittle42
07-21-2010, 10:35 AM
No, I didn't say that, however there is little point in repeating what I did say. I suggest you simply read my previous numerous posts.

What you are saying, unless I am completely off, is that the Sox wouldn't pursue an obvious hitting upgrade simply because that hitter is RH.

Which means that you are basically saying Sox management are idiots.

And if that is true, and they wouldn't pursue a significant hitting upgrade simply because of RH/LH stuff, then yes, they are idiots.

DumpJerry
07-21-2010, 11:21 AM
I'll repeat my mantra. He is another right handed bat.
Moreover, the Sox no longer have the luxury of trading our best pitching prospect.

This will not happen. If K. W. acquires any offensive player of Werth's calibre, it will be a left handed bat.

Interesting to note that Werth's numbers vs. RH pitching are not any better than Teahen's. And none of us are too enthused about Teahen.

This idea makes very little sense to me.
I agree. Our RH production lately has been good.

I don't see this happening - but will say that Werth is from Springfield IL and the Sox popularity would rise substantially state wide if they got him on the team.

South of Chicago its all about Cards and Cubs. Werth would be a big draw for the Sox fan wise.
So would Zobrist using this line of thinking, let's get him, too.

Winning is the best marketing tool, plain and simple. It's not local high school heroes on the team or snappy ad slogans. It's winning, winning, winning. Unless, of course, you have a stadium older than dirt that smells like an outhouse......

voodoochile
07-21-2010, 11:38 AM
Hey why not just wait on Teahen to return. He adds a LH bat to replace Kotsay with. He can also spell RF and 3B and the Sox can continue Ozzie's grand experiment...

kittle42
07-21-2010, 11:43 AM
Hey why not just wait on Teahen to return. He adds a LH bat to replace Kotsay with. He can also spell RF and 3B and the Sox can continue Ozzie's grand experiment...

Well played!

Lillian
07-21-2010, 11:46 AM
What you are saying, unless I am completely off, is that the Sox wouldn't pursue an obvious hitting upgrade simply because that hitter is RH.

Which means that you are basically saying Sox management are idiots.

And if that is true, and they wouldn't pursue a significant hitting upgrade simply because of RH/LH stuff, then yes, they are idiots.

No, the people in management are not idiots. K.W. has openly acknowledged this team's need for a LH, middle of the order bat. The issue surfaced way back in the off season, when the decision was made to not resign Thome. At Ozzie's urging, they concluded that they could get by with Teahen and Kotsay as their left handed additions.

It has now become apparent that this will not be sufficient, even after Teahen returns from the D.L.

This is a question of priorities. Of course, any time that the team can achieve an upgrade at any position, the move can have merit. However, there are limited resources, and expending prospects and money on a player who doesn't address one of the higher priorities, makes little sense.

It seems reasonable to assume that with Peavy's injury, their two highest priorities are another starter to provide depth at that position, and a LH bat to provide balance in the order. Additional, or improved RH hitting is not nearly as high of a priority as these other two.

voodoochile
07-21-2010, 11:48 AM
No, the people in management are not idiots. K.W. has openly acknowledged this team's need for a LH, middle of the order bat. The issue surfaced way back in the off season, when the decision was made to not resign Thome. At Ozzie's urging, they concluded that they could get by with Teahen and Kotsay as their left handed additions.

It has now become apparent that this will not be sufficient, even after Teahen returns from the D.L.

This is a question of priorities. Of course, any time that the team can achieve an upgrade at any position, the move can have merit. However, there are limited resources, and expending prospects and money on a player who doesn't address one of the higher priorities, makes little sense.

It seems reasonable to assume that with Peavy's injury, their two highest priorities are another starter to provide depth at that position, and a LH bat to provide balance in the order. Additional, or improved RH hitting is not nearly as high of a priority as these other two.

How do we know that Teahen won't be sufficient? He was actually starting to hit a bit before the injury...

Dibbs
07-21-2010, 11:54 AM
Why are so many obsessed with LH hitters? I will take nine RH hitters if they are good. A good hitter is better than a bad hitter regardless of what side of the plate they stand on. Werth would be awesome. Hell, anyone over Kotsay would be awesome. Except, Dewayne Wise of course.

Dibbs
07-21-2010, 11:56 AM
Hey why not just wait on Teahen to return. He adds a LH bat to replace Kotsay with. He can also spell RF and 3B and the Sox can continue Ozzie's grand experiment...

I would happily take Teahen over Kotsay as our regular DH. Still not good, but he is an improvement.

Lillian
07-21-2010, 11:58 AM
How do we know that Teahen won't be sufficient? He was actually starting to hit a bit before the injury...

I agree. We don't know. However, remember the role that he would ideally fill would be to bat in the middle of the order, to break up all of the right bats. I think the question is; can Teahen hit well enough to justify batting him 5th vs RH pitching?

What do you think? Could you really hit him 5th, between Rios, Konerko and Quentin?
I'm not sure that he could be good enough to hit there, and apparently K.W. isn't sure either. That's probably why he's agressively pursuing Dunn.
That would really be something: Rios, Quentin, Dunn, Konerko, in the middle, with A.J., Ramirez and Beckham at the bottom of the order.

Lillian
07-21-2010, 12:01 PM
Why are so many obsessed with LH hitters? I will take nine RH hitters if they are good. A good hitter is better than a bad hitter regardless of what side of the plate they stand on. Werth would be awesome. Hell, anyone over Kotsay would be awesome. Except, Dewayne Wise of course.

The reason that it's important to have a balanced lineup which mixes in a few left handed bats is because it it too easy for opposing pitchers to get comfortable facing hitters who all hit from the same side.

Moreover, in the late innings, opposing managers would have no need to go to the bullpen in order to bring in relievers to match up vs a lineup void of a dangerous LH bat.

kittle42
07-21-2010, 12:03 PM
Why are so many obsessed with LH hitters? I will take nine RH hitters if they are good. A good hitter is better than a bad hitter regardless of what side of the plate they stand on. Werth would be awesome. Hell, anyone over Kotsay would be awesome. Except, Dewayne Wise of course.

THANK YOU. All this LH/RH balance stuff has some merit, but not so much that you refuse to upgrade simply because you'd prefer a LH bat.

Plenty of teams have been "unbalanced" and did just fine. I seem to recall the 2008 Cubs having Fukudome and and Edmonds (as half of a platoon with Reed Johnson) as their only LH hitters and winning 97 games and leading the NL in runs per game by a significant margin.

Thus, if management refuses to significantly upgrade simply because it wishes to keep "balance," then management is foolish.

kittle42
07-21-2010, 12:04 PM
Moreover, in the late innings, opposing managers would have no need to go to the bullpen in order to bring in relievers to match up vs a lineup void of a dangerous LH bat.

That's Tony LaRussa-influenced BS, for the most part. A shame it seems to have become the norm.

Hitmen77
07-21-2010, 12:06 PM
Hey why not just wait on Teahen to return. He adds a LH bat to replace Kotsay with. He can also spell RF and 3B and the Sox can continue Ozzie's grand experiment...

I think this is exactly what the Sox are going to do once the trade deadline passes.

Lillian
07-21-2010, 01:27 PM
That's Tony LaRussa-influenced BS, for the most part. A shame it seems to have become the norm.

Yes, it may have questionable validity, however that is the reality of modern baseball. Whether or not the strategy actually has merit is an academic discussion for another thread. For purposes of this discussion, we should assume that this is the model which management believes they should follow.