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View Full Version : If Peavy is seriously hurt, do the Sox go after Cliff Lee?


WhiteSoxFan84
07-07-2010, 12:51 AM
At first, my answer is no. I'd still rather have them go get a power bat like Adam Dunn's (awesome) or Prince Fielder's (awesomer). Also, having Daniel Hudson ready to come up + the rest of our rotation pitching so well makes me less concerned about replacing Peavy with a huge name. Lastly, the Mariners will probably ask for Gordon Beckham and then some.

What do you guys think?

A. Cavatica
07-07-2010, 12:51 AM
No, absolutely not.

theamb
07-07-2010, 12:55 AM
Minnesota is more likely to add a rental like Lee

With our minors in such poor shape, I question if we have enough to even obtain Lee.

And we certainly know he won't resign before free agency

WhiteSox5187
07-07-2010, 12:57 AM
No, absolutely not.

It depends on how long Peavy is out and how Hudson does. If Peavy is done for the season and Hudson struggles we will probably inquire about him at the very least.

WhiteSoxFan84
07-07-2010, 01:04 AM
Another thing to keep in mind guys: the White Sox acquiring Cliff Lee would mean the Twins (division rival) and the Yankees (possible 1st Round opponent) wouldn't be acquiring him.

Crede24Thome25
07-07-2010, 01:06 AM
I'd rather they go after a Dan Haren or Andy Sonnanstine.

Tragg
07-07-2010, 01:07 AM
No
We'll forever be a 85 win team if we keep making trades like that.

This sojurn for the "ace" has been an utter failure. Ritchie, Vazquez, Wells, Peavy. End it now.

PalehosePlanet
07-07-2010, 01:08 AM
I'm confident that Hudson can do the job. Lee would be a very expensive rental. No thanks

WhiteSoxFan84
07-07-2010, 01:13 AM
No
We'll forever be a 85 win team if we keep making trades like that.

This sojurn for the "ace" has been an utter failure. Ritchie, Vazquez, Wells, Peavy. End it now.

Huh? How can you even mention any of those guys in the same sentence as Peavy? How many Cy Youngs COMBINED do the other 3 have?

kittle42
07-07-2010, 01:20 AM
Huh? How can you even mention any of those guys in the same sentence as Peavy? How many Cy Youngs COMBINED do the other 3 have?

You're missing the point, I think, whether you agree with it or not.

Tragg
07-07-2010, 01:20 AM
Huh? How can you even mention any of those guys in the same sentence as Peavy? How many Cy Youngs COMBINED do the other 3 have?
None - they're not aces. And with the Sox, neither is Peavy.
That's the point.
I should put Gaciaia on that list. That one worked as intended for 2 seasons.

Now look at Williams' results when trading older pitchers for young pitchers:
Floyd and Gio (later squandered) for Freddy; Danks for McCarthy

balke
07-07-2010, 07:37 AM
None - they're not aces. And with the Sox, neither is Peavy.
That's the point.
I should put Gaciaia on that list. That one worked as intended for 2 seasons.

Now look at Williams' results when trading older pitchers for young pitchers:
Floyd and Gio (later squandered) for Freddy; Danks for McCarthy


Yeah old man McCarthy.

DumpJerry
07-07-2010, 08:20 AM
Bad idea. Peavy is hurt, not dead. When he comes back, do we go with a six man rotation? This idea is the definition of "overreaction." The reasons why we're not trying for him before Peavy strained his muscle still exist-we don't need him. The only reason why we would do it would be to block the Twins, but the price is too high.

Anyway, the Twins can have him. They need more than someone who will play in 20% of the remaining games to turn around their season.

doublem23
07-07-2010, 08:50 AM
If Lee is a 3-month rental, we could realistically clean out the farm system for him, let him walk, take the 2 compsentation picks and very likely end up in a better place organizationally.

Let's wait and see what the diagnosis for Jake is, though, there are other holes on this team that need to be filled, too.

Craig Grebeck
07-07-2010, 09:48 AM
No point in discussing someone we don't have enough talent to acquire.

asindc
07-07-2010, 09:54 AM
Even if we did have the assets to acquire without signficantly diluting the existing roster, I'd say no.

doublem23
07-07-2010, 10:36 AM
Even if we did have the assets to acquire without signficantly diluting the existing roster, I'd say no.

Uh, why not? If you could get Cliff Lee without having to touch your guys in the Majors, why wouldn't you?

cws05champ
07-07-2010, 10:40 AM
If Lee is a 3-month rental, we could realistically clean out the farm system for him, let him walk, take the 2 compsentation picks and very likely end up in a better place organizationally.

Let's wait and see what the diagnosis for Jake is, though, there are other holes on this team that need to be filled, too.
Lets say Lee gets signed by the Yankees, but they also sign Carl Crawford. Then we would probably only get a 1st round supplemental and a 2nd round pick. Not as high as what you would think.

doublem23
07-07-2010, 10:53 AM
Lets say Lee gets signed by the Yankees, but they also sign Carl Crawford. Then we would probably only get a 1st round supplemental and a 2nd round pick. Not as high as what you would think.

Yeah, but our farm system is ****ing garbage. I mean, obviously this hypothetical deal that never would take place doesn't involve anyone on the MLB roster outside of *maybe* Dayan, but we just have some crap in our farm system. People need to divorce themselves from the hope that any of them will pan out, because the Sox produce about 1 decent Major Leaguer per decade.

hawkjt
07-07-2010, 11:04 AM
No. Jake will be back for the Aug-October stretch run.
This team needs a hitter, a high average lefty would be nice, far more than a 7th starter,including Hudson.
As Hawk would say...''where's he gonna play?''

Ron Karkovice
07-07-2010, 11:08 AM
Maybe I'm myopic in my thought process this year, but the people who "don't want" cliff lee are crazy. He is a top five (right?) pitcher in the majors.

Tragg
07-07-2010, 11:16 AM
Yeah, but our farm system is ****ing garbage. I mean, obviously this hypothetical deal that never would take place doesn't involve anyone on the MLB roster outside of *maybe* Dayan, but we just have some crap in our farm system. People need to divorce themselves from the hope that any of them will pan out, because the Sox produce about 1 decent Major Leaguer per decade.
Chris Young is on the all start team ; Clayton Richard, Gio and Ely are major league starters.
Aaron Cunningham and Ryan "I was dumped for Jerry" Sweeney play

There's no point in going "all in" with what is essentially an 85 win team

Heck if we hadn't have made that Peavy trade we'd be better off even with a healthy Peavy....Richard pitches fine, we'd have more depth and a heck of a lot more payroll flexibility. Even worse, was trading 3 of our top 5 prospects for an solid hitting, but no better, Swisher.

FielderJones
07-07-2010, 11:19 AM
Maybe I'm myopic in my thought process this year, but the people who "don't want" cliff lee are crazy. He is a top five (right?) pitcher in the majors.

What you're failing to see is that renting Cliff Lee for 14-16 starts is not worth emptying what little is in our farm system; other than Linebrink, it certainly isn't worth anyone on the 25-man roster.

doublem23
07-07-2010, 11:26 AM
Chris Young is on the all start team ; Clayton Richard, Gio and Ely are major league starters.
Aaron Cunningham and Ryan "I was dumped for Jerry" Sweeney play

There's no point in going "all in" with what is essentially an 85 win team

Heck if we hadn't have made that Peavy trade we'd be better off even with a healthy Peavy....Richard pitches fine, we'd have more depth and a heck of a lot more payroll flexibility. Even worse, was trading 3 of our top 5 prospects for an solid hitting, but no better, Swisher.

Young has finally started to figure things out, good for him, it only took him what? 4 years? Aaron Cunningham is pure garbage, I hate to break your bubble, Sweeney is all right, an everyday starter, but nothing to write home about.

Richard and Ely are products of the National League, and by the way, before you go proclaiming John Ely was a major loss, perhaps you should check out his last few starts when he's been ROCKED. The book is still very much out on him as to whether or not he's a legitimate Major League-quality starter. Poreda, Carter, and Russell all suck.

Again, this is an exercise in pointlessness since if the Sox called the M's about Cliff Lee and offered all 4 of Hudson, Flowers, Viciedo, and Danks they would likely laugh in our face, but you still likely come out better in the end with the FA compensation for Lee when he bolts.

doublem23
07-07-2010, 11:31 AM
What you're failing to see is that renting Cliff Lee for 14-16 starts is not worth emptying what little is in our farm system; other than Linebrink, it certainly isn't worth anyone on the 25-man roster.

That is so short-sighted. Lee is one of the best pitchers in all of baseball, clean the whole damn farm system out for him. The Sox have a legitimate shot at winning the division, add Lee, give Peavy all the time to get healthy, and we could go to the posteason with Lee, Buehrle, Peavy, Danks, and Floyd (toss one out) as your rotation. Are you kidding me? That's nuts. I'll go to war for 5 and 7 games with that kind of pitching any day of the week.

And again, on top of that, what Lee would be bring back in the Draft in 2011 would more than cover what we could offer to get him. Of course, we almost assuredly don't have enough to cover for him, so this is all moot.

DirtySox
07-07-2010, 11:41 AM
Hudson will be just fine replacing Peavy. Even if the White Sox wanted Lee, they will be outbid rather easily. If the farm system is going to be emptied, it needs to be for a bat.

The Immigrant
07-07-2010, 11:53 AM
Again, this is an exercise in pointlessness since if the Sox called the M's about Cliff Lee and offered all 4 of Hudson, Flowers, Viciedo, and Danks they would likely laugh in our face, but you still likely come out better in the end with the FA compensation for Lee when he bolts.

This is absolutely laughable.

khan
07-07-2010, 11:54 AM
No point in discussing someone we don't have enough talent to acquire.

Well, that rules out Fielder and Dunn also.

In any case, the idea of acquiring Lee is country-dumb for THIS organization.

Improve the offense, please.

doublem23
07-07-2010, 11:57 AM
This is absolutely laughable.

I know, the thought of the M's dumping Lee for our scraps is good for a chuckle. If you start looking at some of our Major League talent, like Beckham, Sergio, Danks, or Floyd, you might start putting together enough pieces to land a fish the size of Lee, but I don't see the point in trading away MLB pieces when the object is to win now. That's lateral movement.

Red Barchetta
07-07-2010, 12:07 PM
(gulp), Carlos Zambrano anyone?! Seriously, with his connection to Ozzie, etc., could this be a fix for both sides, especially if the Cubs eat the majority of the salary? :?:

A day after his blow up, I would have said no &(#! way, however if Peavy is out, Z can eat up innings. Hide the Gatorade coolers!

Ron Karkovice
07-07-2010, 12:14 PM
(gulp), Carlos Zambrano anyone?! Seriously, with his connection to Ozzie, etc., could this be a fix for both sides, especially if the Cubs eat the majority of the salary? :?:

A day after his blow up, I would have said no &(#! way, however if Peavy is out, Z can eat up innings. Hide the Gatorade coolers!

If he can pitch like he did 4 years ago, which he can't.

PalehosePlanet
07-07-2010, 12:22 PM
If Lee is a 3-month rental, we could realistically clean out the farm system for him, let him walk, take the 2 compsentation picks and very likely end up in a better place organizationally.

Let's wait and see what the diagnosis for Jake is, though, there are other holes on this team that need to be filled, too.

I really don't get this. Are you saying because our would-be comp picks would be higher (round wise) than where Hudson was originally drafted, that it means the pick would automatically be a better player than Hudson? Or better than Viciedo?

Those two picks could end up being in the 31-50 range. Would you really rather have that --- which is a crapshoot at this point of the draft, more or less --- than known commodities?

doublem23
07-07-2010, 12:23 PM
I really don't get this. Are you saying because our would-be comp picks would be higher (round wise) than where Hudson was originally drafted, that it means the pick would automatically be a better player than Hudson? Or better than Viciedo?

Those two picks could end up being in the 31-50 range. Would you really rather have that --- which is a crapshoot at this point of the draft, more or less --- than known commodities?

Yes because if they're Sox prospects, I know they're going to be bad.

DirtySox
07-07-2010, 12:24 PM
I really don't get this. Are you saying because our would-be comp picks would be higher (round wise) than where Hudson was originally drafted, that it means the pick would automatically be a better player than Hudson? Or better than Viciedo?

Those two picks could end up being in the 31-50 range. Would you really rather have that --- which is a crapshoot at this point of the draft, more or less --- than known commodities?

Speaking of which, this organization isn't the best at drafting talent. The primary comp pick from O-Cab landed us Josh Phegley. A large overdraft that was panned by many. There is a significant chance that whatever draft picks are netted will turn into a pile of puke.

kaufsox
07-08-2010, 12:04 AM
Saw something stating that Peavy might be done for the year. I'm thinking some kind of pitching might me needed. I don't think we've got enough of what the M's really need to land Lee, but relying on Hudson to pick up where Peavy left off seems like a bad idea.

Baron
07-08-2010, 12:42 PM
On 670 the Score Ed Farmer was asked out of Prince Fielder,Adam Dunn and Cliff Lee who do you think would be a good idea to add.He went with Cliff Lee because no one can get a hit off him and if he gives up a walk its like giving up a home run.

Just thought id share

SouthSoxFan
07-08-2010, 01:16 PM
With all the teams interested in Lee, the asking price is justifiably high. Would the Mariners take Beckham and Flowers plus a 2nd tier prospect for Lee? If so, I'd pull the trigger. Lee makes us the favorites in the Central, and gives us a legitimate shot of winning in the playoffs.

KMcMahon817
07-08-2010, 01:36 PM
Yes because if they're Sox prospects, I know they're going to be bad.

That's a hell of a logic.:rolleyes:

KMcMahon817
07-08-2010, 01:41 PM
With all the teams interested in Lee, the asking price is justifiably high. Would the Mariners take Beckham and Flowers plus a 2nd tier prospect for Lee? If so, I'd pull the trigger. Lee makes us the favorites in the Central, and gives us a legitimate shot of winning in the playoffs.

Throwing away Beckham for 2 months of Lee is beyond stupid. I promise you KW will not be trading Beckham. He could have had Adrian Gonzalez (for a few years) for Beckham in the offseason, I don't think he would settle for anything less.

I am not in the boat that says, "Oh the Sox don't have enough bullets to acquire an impact player." That's simply not true. But bidding against potencially ten other clubs for 13 or so starts from Lee wouldn't bode well for us.

If we are going to get a pitcher, get a middle of the rotation guy. Grebeck said something on here yesterday about the Sox making a "Carl Pavano type pick up", similar to what the Twins did in 2009. That was the first thing that came to mind when I heard Peavy was likely done for the year. The Sox don't need to gut the farm for an ace, just pick up a middle of the roation guy.

munchman33
07-08-2010, 05:15 PM
Apparently, Kenny is already "kicking tires" on this, according to a blurb in a Seattle paper. (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/thehotstoneleague/2012308361_dont_be_surprised_if_zdurienci.html?)

CLR01
07-08-2010, 06:24 PM
He went with Cliff Lee because no one can get a hit off him and if he gives up a walk its like giving up a home run.


:scratch:

It's an automatic run? :?:

Baron
07-09-2010, 01:36 AM
:scratch:

It's an automatic run? :?:


He was just saying that it was so rare....or something to that effect

Nellie_Fox
07-10-2010, 01:26 AM
Moot point.