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View Full Version : Sox Get Snubbed - But Congrats Thornton!


soltrain21
07-04-2010, 12:44 PM
No Rios, No Konerko on All-Star team.

David ****ing Ortiz? Give me a break.

october23sp
07-04-2010, 12:48 PM
:scratch::scratch::scratch::scratch::scratch::scra tch::scratch::scratch::scratch::o:

DirtySox
07-04-2010, 12:48 PM
Meh. Is anyone really that surprised?

october23sp
07-04-2010, 12:51 PM
Meh. Is anyone really that surprised?

Thornton over Paulie is very surprising.

Crede24Thome25
07-04-2010, 12:52 PM
Meh. Is anyone really that surprised?
I am, I at least thought Rios would make it.

harwar
07-04-2010, 12:52 PM
yea .. same old same old i guess .. i'm just shocked that Paul didn't go .. weird

The Milkman
07-04-2010, 12:52 PM
Paulie on the final vote list along with Nick ****ing Swisher.

soxfanreggie
07-04-2010, 12:53 PM
I figured the Sox would have two All-Stars out of Thornton, PK, and Rios, but alas, we are going to have to hope for one of our sluggers to be named as a replacement.

I was in a conversation with Cards and Cubs fans this morning about non-closer relievers, and they agreed that he is one of the best in that role in all of baseball and has added value as a lefty.

I know we have him locked up in a current deal with a 2011 club option (at a GREAT salary for us), but let's try working out at least a year or two extension.

Crede24Thome25
07-04-2010, 12:56 PM
Paulie on the final vote list along with Nick ****ing Swisher.
Where is the list?

skobabe8
07-04-2010, 12:56 PM
I wanted to look up Ortiz's stats before I commented. Sure enough, they're well below PK's.

october23sp
07-04-2010, 12:57 PM
I am just very upset.

bridgeportcopper
07-04-2010, 12:57 PM
David ****ing Ortiz? Give me a break.


Are you ****ing kidding me????? Weren't they gonna cut him about a month ago?

Soxman219
07-04-2010, 01:00 PM
WHAT A JOKE

The fact that Ortiz and John Buck are ahead of Paulie proves this all-star game is a joke

Craig Grebeck
07-04-2010, 01:01 PM
Paulie can go home and rest. Good for him.

BRDSR
07-04-2010, 01:08 PM
Sox Army has an impressive history of voting in the 33rd man...let's do it again. Paulie or Rios will be on that ballot for sure. Either one would likely actually be the most deserving as well, which will make Sox Army's job just a little easier.

Edit: Probably should have done my homework and/or read this thread better before posting. Paulie's on the Final Vote ballot with Nick Swisher, Kevin Youkillis, Delmon Young, and Michael Young. Vote early and often, Sox fans! Gotta beat out a Red Sox and Yankees player.

DirtySox
07-04-2010, 01:08 PM
Paulie can go home and rest. Good for him.

Pretty much.

Not even going to bother voting. Youk or Swish have it locked up.

Craig Grebeck
07-04-2010, 01:11 PM
Pretty much.

Not even going to bother voting. Youk or Swish have it locked up.
It's not like either of those two don't deserve it, either. Someone's got to stay home, I'd rather it be our guy.

bridgeportcopper
07-04-2010, 01:14 PM
I just voted upwards of 50 times - apparently there is no limit, so Paulie & Joey Votto now have 50-0 leads each. Oh yeah, I have forged my own treaty with Reds fans.

P.S. Oh yeah, i forgot, I will ****ing puke if Swisher gets in!

DirtySox
07-04-2010, 01:15 PM
It's not like either of those two don't deserve it, either. Someone's got to stay home, I'd rather it be our guy.

Blasphemy. Nick Swisher is a villain, thief, and scoundrel. Did you hear he disregarded Griffey's batting tips?

bridgeportcopper
07-04-2010, 01:17 PM
Blasphemy. Nick Swisher is a villain, thief, and scoundrel. Did you hear he disregarded Griffey's batting tips?


I don't know about all that but he is a stroke, a pouter and a crybaby!

Craig Grebeck
07-04-2010, 01:18 PM
I don't know about all that but he is a stroke, a pouter and a crybaby!

Definitions of stroke on the Web:

(sports) the act of swinging or striking at a ball with a club or racket or bat or cue or hand; "it took two strokes to get out of the bunker"; "a good shot requires good balance and tempo"; "he left me an almost impossible shot"
throw: the maximum movement available to a pivoted or reciprocating piece by a cam
a sudden loss of consciousness resulting when the rupture or occlusion of a blood vessel leads to oxygen lack in the brain
a light touch
(golf) the unit of scoring in golf is the act of hitting the ball with a club; "Nicklaus won by three strokes"
the oarsman nearest the stern of the shell who sets the pace for the rest of the crew
accident: anything that happens suddenly or by chance without an apparent cause; "winning the lottery was a happy accident"; "the pregnancy was a stroke of bad luck"; "it was due to an accident or fortuity"
touch lightly and repeatedly, as with brushing motions; "He stroked his long beard"
solidus: a punctuation mark (/) used to separate related items of information
strike a ball with a smooth blow
a mark made on a surface by a pen, pencil, or paintbrush; "she applied the paint in careful strokes"
row at a particular rate
any one of the repeated movements of the limbs and body used for locomotion in swimming or rowing
treat gingerly or carefully; "You have to stroke the boss"
a single complete movement
What?

PhillipsBubba
07-04-2010, 01:21 PM
Who gives a flyin' ****...just win the division!!!!!

bridgeportcopper
07-04-2010, 01:22 PM
What?
from Urban dictionary:

(http://stroke.urbanup.com/97815)


stroke:


(http://www.urbandictionary.com/products.php?term=stroke&defid=97815)
An unsavory character
ex: That kid is a ****ing stroke

Rockabilly
07-04-2010, 01:22 PM
The All-Star will always be a joke..

DirtySox
07-04-2010, 01:23 PM
Who gives a flyin' ****...just win the division!!!!!

:thumbsup:

Craig Grebeck
07-04-2010, 01:24 PM
from Urban dictionary:

(http://stroke.urbanup.com/97815)


stroke:


(http://www.urbandictionary.com/products.php?term=stroke&defid=97815)
An unsavory character
ex: That kid is a ****ing stroke
Nah, I think you meant oarsman.

Crede24Thome25
07-04-2010, 01:30 PM
I just voted 500 times(my 8 emails,moms 2,sister 2, brother 2). I will not rest until Paul Konerko makes it to the All Star Game. I may be able to get him there single handedly:D:

soxfanreggie
07-04-2010, 01:35 PM
Paulie on the final vote list along with Nick ****ing Swisher.

That sounds like a challenge for the Sox Army. I wonder what happens in the AL needs another replacement - would they take someone out of the final vote list?

twinsuck
07-04-2010, 01:44 PM
Once I get home I will vote 500+ for Paullie, I promise!!! Sox army unite!!!!

harwar
07-04-2010, 01:46 PM
I just voted 500 times(my 8 emails,moms 2,sister 2, brother 2). I will not rest until Paul Konerko makes it to the All Star Game. I may be able to get him there single handedly:D:


i stayed up all night voting that one year to get frank in but i was younger and healthier then .. good luck to you guys ..

chisoxfanatic
07-04-2010, 01:51 PM
If we could get AJ Pierzynski, who is hated around the rest of the league, in, then this shouldn't be a problem.

TheCommander
07-04-2010, 01:55 PM
Not even going to bother voting. Youk or Swish have it locked up.

Podsednik beating out Jeter ring a bell?

thomas35forever
07-04-2010, 01:55 PM
Thornton?! Seriously?! I thought setup men never made the team. I guess there's a first time for everything. Rios getting snubbed is a joke.

LoveYourSuit
07-04-2010, 01:58 PM
I find it emberassing to have to vote our guy in on the last ballot.


Either they wanted him in there to begin with or just let him stay home.


Let's have some pride and say "**** You" to Selig and his allstar game.

BringHomeDaBacon
07-04-2010, 02:03 PM
I find it emberassing to have to vote our guy in on the last ballot.


Either they wanted him in there to begin with or just let him stay home.


Let's have some pride and say "**** You" to Selig and his allstar game.

100% agree

**** their final vote

A. Cavatica
07-04-2010, 02:54 PM
Thornton over Paulie is very surprising.

I'm happy to see it, though -- Thornton is the better player. Konerko is a mediocrity having a contract year.

Rios has a beef.

LoveYourSuit
07-04-2010, 02:57 PM
I'm happy to see it, though -- Thornton is the better player. Konerko is a mediocrity having a contract year.

Rios has a beef.

If it helps the Sox re-sign Paulie at a cheaper rate, yes, please stay home Paulie.

konerko 14
07-04-2010, 03:01 PM
this is a bunch of crap, how is Rios not even on the Final Vote???
He should have made the allstar team! Vote Paulie!!!!!!!!!

TomBradley72
07-04-2010, 03:06 PM
I'm happy to see it, though -- Thornton is the better player. Konerko is a mediocrity having a contract year.



Konerko's career stats:

.278-346-1102

Mediocre?

LoveYourSuit
07-04-2010, 03:12 PM
this is a bunch of crap, how is Rios not even on the Final Vote???
He should have made the allstar team! Vote Paulie!!!!!!!!!

I think Boesch should have been there before Rios. Even Magglio is right there with Rios.

Paulie fell victim of a loaded 1B position. Ortiz made it as a DH.


Jared Weaver not making the AS Game when his team is hosting is a crime.

That to me was the biggest snub.

Red Barchetta
07-04-2010, 03:15 PM
I voted for Paulie, however Swisher is a .249 career hitting batting .287. His window of opportunity is now considering he has the entire second half to fall back to earth, which he probably will. He was basically a no-show during the World Series last year.

Sorry, I was never a big fan of his when he was here. He took way too many strikes down the middle of the plate and I hated when he pouted after his benching.

asindc
07-04-2010, 03:30 PM
I think Boesch should have been there before Rios. Even Magglio is right there with Rios.

Paulie fell victim of a loaded 1B position. Ortiz made it as a DH.


Jared Weaver not making the AS Game when his team is hosting is a crime.

That to me was the biggest snub.

1) Boesch is not close to being the defensive player Rios is (no need to mention Magglio in this discussion).

2) Pauly can DH.

3) I agree that Weaver should have made ti.

Brian26
07-04-2010, 03:31 PM
Meh. Is anyone really that surprised?

Thornton over Paulie is very surprising.

I am, I at least thought Rios would make it.

I'm most surprised over PK not being selected when he's been leading the league, or near the top, in homers basically all season.

LoveYourSuit
07-04-2010, 03:31 PM
1) Boesch is not close to being the defensive player Rios is (no need to mention Magglio in this discussion).

2) Pauly can DH.

3) I agree that Weaver should have made ti.

They already took two DHs in Vlad and Ortiz. And those two guys are the best DHs in the league by default.

asindc
07-04-2010, 03:35 PM
They already took two DHs in Vlad and Ortiz. And those two guys are the best DHs in the league by default.

Is there a rule that they have to choose more than one DH?

LoveYourSuit
07-04-2010, 03:36 PM
Is there a rule that they have to choose more than one DH?

I don't think there's a rule for anything.

DirtySox
07-04-2010, 03:40 PM
I'm most surprised over PK not being selected when he's been leading the league, or near the top, in homers basically all season.

It's not that I think he isn't deserving of a spot. Deserving players are snubbed all the time, and it just so happens to be a White Sox player in that position this year.

chisoxfanatic
07-04-2010, 03:42 PM
Is there a rule that they have to choose more than one DH?
Since ANY hitter could be inserted into that "DH" spot, I would think the answer would be no. This will all be a moot point if we can get Konerko in via the final man vote.

Craig Grebeck
07-04-2010, 03:52 PM
Since ANY hitter could be inserted into that "DH" spot, I would think the answer would be no. This will all be a moot point if we can get Konerko in via the final man vote.
Needs moar Kotsay.

Foulke You
07-04-2010, 03:58 PM
It's not that I think he isn't deserving of a spot. Deserving players are snubbed all the time, and it just so happens to be a White Sox player in that position this year.
As a rule, White Sox players get snubbed for the All Star Game pretty regularly even when we are having banner years. The only time I can recall where we didn't have snubs was when Ozzie managed the team in 2006 and of course, he isn't going to snub his own guys. Ortiz likely makes it because he is well liked and he plays in the AL East so Girardi sees him all the time.

Craig Grebeck
07-04-2010, 03:59 PM
As a rule, White Sox players get snubbed for the All Star Game pretty regularly even when we are having banner years. The only time I can recall where we didn't have snubs was when Ozzie managed the team in 2006 and of course, he isn't going to snub his own guys. Ortiz likely makes it because he is well liked and he plays in the AL East so Girardi sees him all the time.
Kevin Youkilis is just as deserving as Paul Konerko, if not more so.

asindc
07-04-2010, 04:00 PM
Kevin Youkilis is just as deserving as Paul Konerko, if not more so.

I agree with that, but neither Ortiz nor Bautista should be there before either one of them.

Craig Grebeck
07-04-2010, 04:30 PM
I agree with that, but neither Ortiz nor Bautista should be there before either one of them.
Bautista's got a lot of positional flexibility.

Brian26
07-04-2010, 04:34 PM
As a rule, White Sox players get snubbed for the All Star Game pretty regularly even when we are having banner years. The only time I can recall where we didn't have snubs was when Ozzie managed the team in 2006 and of course, he isn't going to snub his own guys.

On the otherhand, I can remember plenty of Sox teams in the late 80s that were lucky to have one representative at all on the team (thankfully due to the MLB rule), whether it be Ozzie or Harold.

A. Cavatica
07-04-2010, 04:36 PM
Konerko's career stats:

.278-346-1102

Mediocre?

For a first baseman? Yes.

TDog
07-04-2010, 05:13 PM
Is there a rule that they have to choose more than one DH?

There certainly isn't a rule concerning DHs. In the All-Star Game, many hitters will only be making a pinch-hitting appearance, so they will only be there as hitters. That is a rule that a DH could fill. In general, DHs are less worthy for a spot on the All-Star team than players with comparable offensive numbers because they have no position. There really is no reason to even have a DH in the All-Star Game lineup with all the pinch-hitting that's being done, although it's possible that the visiting team may bat around in the first forcing the pitcher to hit because he hasn't yet faced a batter, according to the rules of baseball.

I hope Thornton doesn't have to pitch.

theamb
07-04-2010, 05:15 PM
1) Boesch is not close to being the defensive player Rios is (no need to mention Magglio in this discussion).


Magglio and Boesch have better offensive stats than Rios and(as of now) are on a better team than Rios

TDog
07-04-2010, 05:20 PM
On the otherhand, I can remember plenty of Sox teams in the late 80s that were lucky to have one representative at all on the team (thankfully due to the MLB rule), whether it be Ozzie or Harold.

There was one season (I think it was 1988) when Ozzie Guillen was named to the All-Star team, couldn't play due to an injury, and no one by the White Sox ended up being on the AL All-Star roster.

Craig Grebeck
07-04-2010, 05:20 PM
Magglio and Boesch have better offensive stats than Rios and(as of now) are on a better team than Rios
And neither of them play an up-the-middle position. Rios' offensive statistics are far more valuable in CF than their corner numbers.

And who gives a flying **** about the teams?

theamb
07-04-2010, 05:24 PM
And neither of them play an up-the-middle position. Rios' offensive statistics are far more valuable in CF than their corner numbers.


Then the gripe should be with Vernon Wells, who plays CF and is 4th in the AL in HR.

Either way, Magglio and Boesch are just as deserving as Rios. As is Swisher, whether you like it or not.


And who gives a flying **** about the teams?

Winning counts for something

Craig Grebeck
07-04-2010, 05:25 PM
Then the gripe should be with Vernon Wells, who plays CF and is 4th in the AL in HR.

Either way, Magglio and Boesch are just as deserving as Rios. As is Swisher, whether you like it or not.




Winning counts for something
Dude, I defend Swisher 10x more than anyone else on this board -- and there's no way he and Rios are comparable this season in terms of offensive and defensive value.

Wells: broke-down defensively, lower OBP, slugging is a wash. Advantage: Rios.

Winning counts for something? Yes. Not all-star selection.

MarySwiss
07-04-2010, 05:26 PM
There certainly isn't a rule concerning DHs. In the All-Star Game, many hitters will only be making a pinch-hitting appearance, so they will only be there as hitters. That is a rule that a DH could fill. In general, DHs are less worthy for a spot on the All-Star team than players with comparable offensive numbers because they have no position. There really is no reason to even have a DH in the All-Star Game lineup with all the pinch-hitting that's being done, although it's possible that the visiting team may bat around in the first forcing the pitcher to hit because he hasn't yet faced a batter, according to the rules of baseball.

I hope Thornton doesn't have to pitch.

Second this. The All-Star game is an annual joke.

That said, I will do my damndest to vote Paulie in just because he deserves it...and then I hope he doesn't actually have to do anything other than pinch-hit.

TDog
07-04-2010, 05:50 PM
Second this. The All-Star game is an annual joke.

That said, I will do my damndest to vote Paulie in just because he deserves it...and then I hope he doesn't actually have to do anything other than pinch-hit.

It's different for hitters, though. I would love to see Konerko get to play in the game because he's such a good guy and he's having a great season.

GoGoCrede
07-04-2010, 05:53 PM
Just got home to see this. Very happy for Matty. But Nick Swisher over Paulie? BARF.

asindc
07-04-2010, 06:04 PM
Magglio and Boesch have better offensive stats than Rios and(as of now) are on a better team than Rios

No offense, but so what?

pudge
07-04-2010, 06:19 PM
It's different for hitters, though. I would love to see Konerko get to play in the game because he's such a good guy and he's having a great season.

Rios too, what a resurgence for this guy, I think him not making it is even more of a crime. I'm happy for Matt though. Really, they just need to dump this joke of an All-Star game altogether.

TomBradley72
07-04-2010, 07:38 PM
For a first baseman? Yes.

In 110 years of baseball, he's 81st on the all time HR list for all players.

He became a starter for the White Sox in 1999, since then he:

#2 in all of MLB for RBI's
#2 in all of MLB for HR's (2nd only to Bonds)

He's pretty much a lock to have 400 HR's for his career, with a shot at 500.

For 2007-2009, he was 7th in all of MLB 1st baseman in HRs, 10th in RBI's.

I don't think he is one of the elite, but he's in the next group behind that, "mediocre" seems like a pretty ridiculous assessment.

Daver
07-04-2010, 08:02 PM
For a first baseman? Yes.

Basing a players offensive production compared to the position he plays is, to me, a stupid way to evaluate talent, unless the position in question is that of the DH.

A. Cavatica
07-04-2010, 08:24 PM
Basing a players offensive production compared to the position he plays is, to me, a stupid way to evaluate talent, unless the position in question is that of the DH.

Overlooking his position is, to me, a stupid way to evaluate talent.

He's a one-tool player. And it's a lot easier to find a one-tool player than any other kind of player. I think he should be an All-Star this year -- he's having the best season of his career, so far -- but most of the time he's average or below in production among first basemen.

His career totals are due to solely to his sticking around and being mediocre for a long time.

TDog
07-04-2010, 08:29 PM
Rios too, what a resurgence for this guy, I think him not making it is even more of a crime. I'm happy for Matt though. Really, they just need to dump this joke of an All-Star game altogether.

The major league baseball All-Star Game is the all-star game other all-star games aspire to be. I don't think it's a joke at all. But every year there are people left off who deserve to be all-stars who aren't selected. I prefer not to see White Sox pitchers named if they are contending because I want them to save their innings for White Sox games, and it would be nice to see more Sox uniforms out there. I hated it the year Sparky Anderson held back Wilbur Wood and Bill Melton for extra innings that didn't come close to happening. Some selections and some moves are unfortunate, but I wouldn't call the game a joke because I disagree with them.

TDog
07-04-2010, 08:31 PM
Basing a players offensive production compared to the position he plays is, to me, a stupid way to evaluate talent, unless the position in question is that of the DH.

Why the double standard?

Daver
07-04-2010, 08:47 PM
Overlooking his position is, to me, a stupid way to evaluate talent.

He's a one-tool player. And it's a lot easier to find a one-tool player than any other kind of player. I think he should be an All-Star this year -- he's having the best season of his career, so far -- but most of the time he's average or below in production among first basemen.

His career totals are due to solely to his sticking around and being mediocre for a long time.

We'll agree to disagree, I will never have any use for the fantasy baseball approach to talent evaluation, and I don't agree with your opinion on this at all.

Craig Grebeck
07-04-2010, 09:37 PM
Overlooking his position is, to me, a stupid way to evaluate talent.

He's a one-tool player. And it's a lot easier to find a one-tool player than any other kind of player. I think he should be an All-Star this year -- he's having the best season of his career, so far -- but most of the time he's average or below in production among first basemen.

His career totals are due to solely to his sticking around and being mediocre for a long time.
Prove it.

Craig Grebeck
07-04-2010, 09:37 PM
Why the double standard?
What is the double standard?

TomBradley72
07-04-2010, 10:39 PM
Prove it.

Exactly. The stats do not back up the claim.

A. Cavatica
07-04-2010, 10:41 PM
Exactly. The stats do not back up the claim.

I've posted the stats at least four times now. Use the search function.

A. Cavatica
07-04-2010, 11:13 PM
OK, one more time, because it's fun to expose Grebeck as talking out of his ass.

Konerko OPS vs all qualified ML first basemen

2010 (1st half) - .947, ranks 6th of 25
2009 - .842, 19th of 22
2008 - .783, 20th of 27
2007 - .841, 16th of 22
2006 - .932, 8th of 26
2005 - .909, 11th of 22
2004 - .894, 8th of 21
2003 - .704, 26th of 28 (he didn't have quite enough plate appearances to qualify, but .704 would've tied him for 26th place)
2002 - .857, 14th of 35
2001 - .856, 14th of 33
2000 - .844, 15th of 33

Red years - well below average (worst full season: 20th)
Green years - well above average (best full season: 8th)
Black years - average or slightly above
Conclusion: average

Source for 2010 numbers:
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/position/1b/sort/OPS/order/true

Source for previous seasons (substitute in the year):
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/year/2009/position/1b/sort/OPS

Bobby Thigpen
07-04-2010, 11:21 PM
Needs moar Kotsay.:deadhorse:

Bobby Thigpen
07-04-2010, 11:24 PM
Dude, I defend Swisher 10x more than anyone else on this board --

This is certainly true. In fact, it's almost like they're lovers he's so devoted to the Dirty Thirty.

Mod Edit: This seems like a personal attack. No matter how much we disagree with people at time, we're not allowed to attack personally. Take some time off to consider your actions.

mcsoxfan
07-04-2010, 11:54 PM
No Rios, No Konerko on All-Star team.

David ****ing Ortiz? Give me a break.

White Sox players historically have had the best chance at making the all-star team when the voting was in the hands of the players. Frankly, I wish it go back to that - especially since now "It Counts". Otherwise, let them have the chance to unwind for a few days.

twinsuck
07-04-2010, 11:56 PM
I voted about 200 times so far. I think I'll do about 250 more tonight and then call it a night. :tongue:

tstrike2000
07-05-2010, 12:19 AM
I'm most surprised over PK not being selected when he's been leading the league, or near the top, in homers basically all season.

Yeah, I was actually very surprised. Konerko and Rios should be reserves, but oh well, it's the ridiculousness of all-star voting. Ortiz has no business being there and guys like Jered Weaver are left off.

Falstaff
07-05-2010, 02:58 AM
Ya, I'm thinking its a gift to the Sox that they almost all get to rest.
We want every advantage in the second half , and any opportunity to
keep arms from falling off and hammys from pulling: we take and grin. Plus the meaning of the game keeps getting more and more watered down the older I get. Maybe the AS game is just some kind of treat for little kids. A serious fan now longer can take it all that seriously. just sayin':dtroll:

Craig Grebeck
07-05-2010, 09:06 AM
OK, one more time, because it's fun to expose Grebeck as talking out of his ass.

Konerko OPS vs all qualified ML first basemen

2010 (1st half) - .947, ranks 6th of 25
2009 - .842, 19th of 22
2008 - .783, 20th of 27
2007 - .841, 16th of 22
2006 - .932, 8th of 26
2005 - .909, 11th of 22
2004 - .894, 8th of 21
2003 - .704, 26th of 28 (he didn't have quite enough plate appearances to qualify, but .704 would've tied him for 26th place)
2002 - .857, 14th of 35
2001 - .856, 14th of 33
2000 - .844, 15th of 33

Red years - well below average (worst full season: 20th)
Green years - well above average (best full season: 8th)
Black years - average or slightly above
Conclusion: average

Source for 2010 numbers:
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/position/1b/sort/OPS/order/true

Source for previous seasons (substitute in the year):
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/year/2009/position/1b/sort/OPS
I asked you to prove it. I did not necessarily disagree with your position, I just wanted to see the data.

Thank you.

BadBobbyJenks
07-05-2010, 11:02 AM
Bautista's got a lot of positional flexibility.

Is Ozzie managing?

TomBradley72
07-05-2010, 11:35 AM
OK, one more time, because it's fun to expose Grebeck as talking out of his ass.

Konerko OPS vs all qualified ML first basemen

2010 (1st half) - .947, ranks 6th of 25
2009 - .842, 19th of 22
2008 - .783, 20th of 27
2007 - .841, 16th of 22
2006 - .932, 8th of 26
2005 - .909, 11th of 22
2004 - .894, 8th of 21
2003 - .704, 26th of 28 (he didn't have quite enough plate appearances to qualify, but .704 would've tied him for 26th place)
2002 - .857, 14th of 35
2001 - .856, 14th of 33
2000 - .844, 15th of 33

Red years - well below average (worst full season: 20th)
Green years - well above average (best full season: 8th)
Black years - average or slightly above
Conclusion: average

Source for 2010 numbers:
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/position/1b/sort/OPS/order/true

Source for previous seasons (substitute in the year):
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/year/2009/position/1b/sort/OPS

I can see your point based on OPS rankings. But it's hard for me summarize Konerko's career with the White Sox as "mediocre". "Paul Konerko's "mediocre" career with the White Sox produced 370 HR's, 3 All Star appearances, 3 division titles and a World Series championship".

I agree he is not among the elite...but I disagree with "average" or "mediocre"...I think factors like defense, durability, leadership, character, etc. should be part of the assessment.

A. Cavatica
07-05-2010, 11:44 AM
I agree he is not among the elite...but I disagree with "average" or "mediocre"...I think factors like defense, durability, leadership, character, etc. should be part of the assessment.

Give me Big Hurt (or someone who hits like him) over PK and his defense, please.

He certainly gets points for durability.

Leadership and character are unknowable. Has this team looked like it's been well led the past several years? Not to me.

Craig Grebeck
07-05-2010, 11:52 AM
I too am inclined to give Konerko points for his longevity. I don't think he's been elite by any means, but I would not characterize his career as mediocre.

BringHomeDaBacon
07-05-2010, 12:50 PM
On the otherhand, I can remember plenty of Sox teams in the late 80s that were lucky to have one representative at all on the team (thankfully due to the MLB rule), whether it be Ozzie or Harold.

Ozzie's stats at the time he made his all star appearances:

1988: 0 HR, 20 RBI, 13 SB .263/.288/.302
1990: 0 HR, 26 RBI, 11 SB .319/.343/.386
1991: 0 HR, 20 RBI, 13 SB .259/.271/.310

I'm sure there were countless players and fans hating on the "at least one representative per team" rule those years.

khan
07-05-2010, 01:10 PM
Anything that drives DOWN Konerko's value in free agency is a GOOD thing.

Anything that rests one of the SOX's most important bats is a GOOD thing.

Anything that limits the exposure to injury for one of the most important bats in the lineup is a GOOD thing.

Therefore, here's hoping that Konerko doesn't make the stupid all star team. Further, here's hoping that Thornton doesn't get into the game.

TDog
07-05-2010, 01:24 PM
White Sox players historically have had the best chance at making the all-star team when the voting was in the hands of the players. Frankly, I wish it go back to that - especially since now "It Counts". Otherwise, let them have the chance to unwind for a few days.

When the voting was in the hands of the players, there were fewer teams and the White Sox were year in and year out one of the better teams in the American League. And they still didn't have many starting position players. Most of the players were reserves and pitchers. In the last year of player voting, 1969, only rookie Carlos May represented the White Sox, as a reserve. He wasn't selected by the players. The first year of fan voting, Luis Aparicio was elected to start at shortstop. Catcher Duane Josephson was on the 1968 All-Star team along with Tommy John, but neither was voted in by the players. I talked with a starter on the 1968 All-Star team who insisted there was no way Duane Josephson was ever an All-Star.

Bill Melton was never elected to start the All-Star team, but with Brooks Robinson in the league, you wouldn't expect him to no matter who was doing the voting. I doubt Konerko or Rios would be voted to start by the players, just as they were not voted to start by the fans.

markopat
07-05-2010, 03:29 PM
Let the Sox players get some rest and let's stay below the radar!

Finish the 1st half strong and let's kick some butt in the 2nd half!

GO GO SOX!

FielderJones
07-05-2010, 04:07 PM
I agree he is not among the elite...but I disagree with "average" or "mediocre"...I think factors like defense, durability, leadership, character, etc. should be part of the assessment.

Defense, durability, leadership, and character are not measured in SABR theories and fantasy leagues, therefore they are not important.

Craig Grebeck
07-05-2010, 04:52 PM
Defense, durability, leadership, and character are not measured in SABR theories and fantasy leagues, therefore they are not important.
Actually, the first two are.

twinsuck
07-06-2010, 02:21 AM
I'm so proud of myself.... I just read my emails and it said this morning I was the Deputy Campaign Manager for Paulie. I guess it was because I voted so much, I'm pretty sure I vote over 600 times last night. I'm sad I didn't get to see my name up there...

Crede24Thome25
07-06-2010, 02:26 AM
I'm so proud of myself.... I just read my emails and it said this morning I was the Deputy Campaign Manager for Paulie. I guess it was because I voted so much, I'm pretty sure I vote over 600 times last night. I'm sad I didn't get to see my name up there...
I got the same message this morning.

twinsuck
07-06-2010, 03:20 AM
I got the same message this morning.
my bubble....it has burst. oh well, better vote some more.