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Madscout
07-01-2010, 09:11 PM
Here is a list of LH batters that are on non-contending teams that I feel would be a considerable upgrade. Who do you want, and what will it take to get them.

AL
David DeJesus
Nick Markakis
Ryan Sweeney
Shin-Soo Choo
Fred Lewis
Luke Scott
Daric Barton
Corey Patterson

NL
Adam Dunn
Kelly Johnson
Chris Coghlan
Steven Drew
Adam LaRoche

My vote is for either Johnson or Markakis. Baltimore and AZ are going to want pitching, which is really the only thing we can offer them.

LoveYourSuit
07-01-2010, 09:25 PM
Nick Markakis has been a huge dissapointment in my book. To not hit for power in that park is crazy.

getonbckthr
07-01-2010, 09:25 PM
AL

Nick Markakis
Shin-Soo Choo

NL
Adam Dunn



Those are whats left that fit the "better and realistic option"

Rockabilly
07-01-2010, 09:40 PM
Nick Markakis would be my #1 choice

getonbckthr
07-01-2010, 09:42 PM
Nick Markakis would be my #1 choice
Over Choo?

Madscout
07-01-2010, 09:48 PM
Over Choo?
I would love Choo, hell I would love Dunn. I just don't think either of those is going to happen. Cleveland will want a king's ransom, and Dunn is staying in Washington.

The Orioles and the D-Backs don't have an axe to grind, and won't be looking to keep Johnson for prospects respectively. Johnson has the added benefit of being able to replace Beckham for a while.

Rockabilly
07-01-2010, 09:56 PM
Over Choo?

I would hate to give up young talent to a AL Central team. Plus have always like Markakis.


http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100630&content_id=11778542&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

FielderJones
07-01-2010, 10:20 PM
Markakis. But I don't know that we could get him for prospects. I would not want to send any pitcher from the big league team except for Peña, Linebrink, or Threets.

asindc
07-01-2010, 10:24 PM
Markakis. But I don't know that we could get him for prospects. I would not want to send any pitcher from the big league team except for Peña, Linebrink, or Threets.

We wouldn't, unless Baltimore's management wants a fan revolt on their hands.

FielderJones
07-01-2010, 10:29 PM
We wouldn't, unless Baltimore's management wants a fan revolt on their hands.

Then it's not worth it. I like Hudson, but I don't want to depend on him in the midst of a pennant race. We've just made the relief corps stronger by subtraction, no point in weakening it again.

Frater Perdurabo
07-01-2010, 10:32 PM
Markakis would be outstanding. I could be convinced to part with any combination of minor leaguers for him. He also would improve the defense. Put him in right and have Quentin DH.

munchman33
07-01-2010, 10:42 PM
Mark me down for Markakis.

Craig Grebeck
07-01-2010, 10:50 PM
Markakis isn't worth talking about. We don't have the bullets.

DickAllen72
07-01-2010, 11:02 PM
Over Choo?
Gezundheit!

PaleHoser
07-01-2010, 11:32 PM
Why, why is Corey Patterson on this list? Corey Patterson swings left-handed, but rarely hits. I can't believe he's still stealing from a baseball team that's not in the Northern League.

I've always liked Markakis from what I've seen of him. He might benefit from a change of scenery.

Seattle is in last place. I'd take Ichiro for some spare parts we don't want or need.

Pablo_Honey
07-02-2010, 12:13 AM
AL
Nick Markakis
Shin-Soo Choo
Luke Scott


NL
Adam Dunn
Kelly Johnson
Adam LaRoche

I'd say these 6 have the kind of bat we need but Markakis and Choo are virtually untouchable, especially when the trading partner is a prospect-deprived team like the Sox. Dunn would be nice but I just don't think the Sox are willing to, nor should they, give up what the Nats would probably want in return. So that leaves Scott, Johnson and Laroche. Personally I'd go for Scott because he shouldn't cost us much in terms of prospects and he can occasionally play both corner outfields and first base. Johnson has the most value out of these three so he might be a bit pricey and Laroche is only limited to first base.

I've always liked Markakis from what I've seen of him. He might benefit from a change of scenery.

Seattle is in last place. I'd take Ichiro for some spare parts we don't want or need.
While I love me some Markakis and Ichiro, those two are franchise stars that would generate outrage from fans if they were to be traded. Not to mention, we just don't have the prospects that are good enough to be sought out by other teams in return for talents like Markakis and Ichiro. Ichiro is also an aging veteran with a huge contract but I've already shared my reasoning for not wanting him on this team in another thread so I digress.

balke
07-02-2010, 07:31 AM
I don't think the Sox should JUST be looking at LH batters. I'll take an upgrade at 3B or just a guy who can hit the damn ball.

russ99
07-02-2010, 09:54 AM
The D-Backs fired their manager and their GM, Josh Byrnes, who has such a good relationship with Kenny.

I wonder if this changes things in regards to players the D-Backs could have on the block?

I still doubt the O's deal Markakis, and we're not getting Choo. So the prime targets are:

AL
David DeJesus
Luke Scott
Fred Lewis
Daric Barton

NL
Adam Dunn
Kelly Johnson ?
Steven Drew ?
Adam LaRoche ?

balke
07-02-2010, 10:20 AM
Ichiro is also an aging veteran with a huge contract but I've already shared my reasoning for not wanting him on this team in another thread so I digress.


Hehe yeah - we already have an Ichiro in Juan Pierre, right?

Lillian
07-02-2010, 11:01 AM
I don't think that Barton is good enough to be on that list.
The Sox don't just need a LH bat, they need one that can bat in the middle of the order. He has to be good enough to bat clean up or 5th, so he can break up the string of RH hitters.

Pablo_Honey
07-02-2010, 01:03 PM
Hehe yeah - we already have an Ichiro in Juan Pierre, right?
Hey, while we are at it, why don't we also trade for Vernon Wells and Alfonso Soriano? Oh, how about Pujols, Ramirez, Longoria, Mauer and Utley? Holy crap, that sounds like a genious lineup. Oh wait, wait, what about pitching? Felix, Lincecum, Halladay, K-Rod pl0x? ****, who gives a flying **** about MONEY?

Oh, oh, better yet, **** OBP, **** OPS, BRING ON THE HITS! OH YES POUR SOME SINGLES ON US! BATTING AVERAGE THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!

Lillian
07-02-2010, 02:00 PM
Here’s an interesting possibility: What about Jim Edmonds?
I know he’s 40, but hear me out.
The guy is still a dangerous hitter vs. RHP.
This year in very limited service:
127 AB .260 AVG .329 OBP with 14 doubles. That’s more than one double every 10 at bats.

We all remember that incredible performance he put on with the Cubs in 2008, when he hit 17 doubles and 19 homers in just half a season.
He missed the whole season last year, but he seems healthy again, and wouldn’t be called upon to do anything but DH, unlike his season with the Cubs, where he played CF.

He demonstrated that he can still hit by having a very good April, when he hit .298 with a .394 OBP. He missed the last 2 weeks of May with a strained left oblique, and has struggled a little since coming back from the DL, but appears to have recovered.

He's still in pretty good shape,and would be dangerous enough to hit in the middle of the order vs. RHP.
He's only owed less than half a million dollars for the rest of this year, and it shouldn’t take much to get him.

The Sox could then wait until the end of the season, and just try to sign Fielder as a free agent.

Madscout
07-02-2010, 02:08 PM
Perhaps I should clarify how I went about making the list. These are all guys who are in the top 10 lh hitters in thier respective league in BA, SLG, or Hr who are on losing team and who I thought we could steal away (hense no ichiro). The thing is, any of these guys have a line better than Kotsy and or Beckham. Thus, they replace one or both of them in the lineup (plays 2b and hits in the middle and then vicedo dhs).

The list has more guys than should be on there to allow people to make a cost benefit analysis.

Foulke You
07-02-2010, 02:35 PM
I don't think the Sox should JUST be looking at LH batters. I'll take an upgrade at 3B or just a guy who can hit the damn ball.
I agree. If you can get a big time impact hitter who is right handed, KW should explore that option too. Supposedly, the Brewers might be listening to offers for Corey Hart. That kid can rake and is having a monster year:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7336

Corey's splits against right handers aren't too shabby either.

Pablo_Honey
07-02-2010, 02:45 PM
I agree. If you can get a big time impact hitter who is right handed, KW should explore that option too. Supposedly, the Brewers might be listening to offers for Corey Hart. That kid can rake and is having a monster year:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7336

Corey's splits against right handers aren't too shabby either.
Wow, didn't know he was available. Would love to see him here. His plate discipline leaves a lot to be desired but he has both power and speed. IIRC, his defense was decent. He may not be the pure impact bat the Sox are looking for but he gives us some flexibility when it comes to future status of Quentin. Anything that makes this team better without costing too much is a welcome for me.

Lillian
07-02-2010, 02:49 PM
I agree. If you can get a big time impact hitter who is right handed, KW should explore that option too. Supposedly, the Brewers might be listening to offers for Corey Hart. That kid can rake and is having a monster year:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7336

Corey's splits against right handers aren't too shabby either.

I hate to be so obstinate, but I'll repeat what I've been posting in various threads; The Sox need a LH impact bat, for the middle of the order. Another RH hitter will not solve that problem, even if he hits RHP pretty well.

K.W. knows that, and has stated it publically. It would be shocking if he traded for another right handed hitter.

balke
07-02-2010, 02:52 PM
Oh, oh, better yet, **** OBP, **** OPS, BRING ON THE HITS! OH YES POUR SOME SINGLES ON US! BATTING AVERAGE THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!

Yes, his career OBP is a paltry .378. And how would the Sox find room for a guy with a .812 OPS for his career? I mean it was only .851 last season! PATHETIC! The Sox don't need that.

doublem23
07-02-2010, 03:00 PM
I hate to be so obstinate, but I'll repeat what I've been posting in various threads; The Sox need a LH impact bat, for the middle of the order. Another RH hitter will not solve that problem, even if he hits RHP pretty well.

K.W. knows that, and has stated it publically. It would be shocking if he traded for another right handed hitter.

The Sox need ANY impact bat. They still have one of the worst offenses in the American League. Sure, a LH bat would be nice to break up all the righties, but anyone who thinks the Sox would be better off playing Kotsay everyday instead of making any upgrade is out of their freaking mind.

balke
07-02-2010, 03:05 PM
The Sox need ANY impact bat. They still have one of the worst offenses in the American League. Sure, a LH bat would be nice to break up all the righties, but anyone who thinks the Sox would be better off playing Kotsay everyday instead of making any upgrade is out of their freaking mind.

Plenty of room on the field for a bat at any position. If Pierre has to DH or rotate play for a good OFer - so be it. 3B and 2B are wide open atm.

Pablo_Honey
07-02-2010, 03:10 PM
Yes, his career OBP is a paltry .378. And how would the Sox find room for a guy with a .812 OPS for his career? I mean it was only .851 last season! PATHETIC! The Sox don't need that.
I'm pretty sure you said you would take Ichiro over Dunn. I've already explained why it makes so much more sense cost-wise to go after Dunn over Ichiro so I'll counter your stat argument. BTW, I agree that Ichiro's OBP and OPS are great but I was actually poking fun at you for saying the Sox need to improve on how many hits they get. I'm like totally sorry my last statement was like totally misleading.

Well, Dunn's career OBP is .382 which is only .004 higher than Ichiro's .378 so yes it's a wash (Again, I was like totally trying to point out your overemphasis on hits and not more important things like patience and power) The big difference between the two is their power. Dunn's career SLG is .522. Ichiro? A measly .433. This translates to Dunn having a career OPS of .904 and Ichiro's being .812. Need I say more?

Seeing as how even Kenny agrees we need a middle-of-the-order LH bat, it's easy to see why Ichiro is not needed on this team. If we can acquire him with a sack of balls and make the M's eat up most of his salary, why wouldn't the Sox want him on this team? But the fact remains: HE'S NOT CHEAP. How about we ****ing drop this topic once and for all?

TheVulture
07-02-2010, 04:51 PM
. Another RH hitter will not solve that problem, even if he hits RHP pretty well.



Yep, Albert Pujols wouldn't help this team at all.

cards press box
07-02-2010, 04:59 PM
Here are two more options:

1. Lance Berkman: Berkman is a switch hitter but he would bring some punch from the left side. He has been recovering from an injury and his numbers have been somewhat down but he is a good hitter and, if healthy, could give the Sox a boost. Berkman is in the last year of his contract. Given Berkman's age and salary, I don't think the Sox would have to give up as much as would be necessary to acquire the younger Adam Dunn.

2. Prince Fielder: I don't see how the Sox could acquire him but the website Bleacher Report suggests that the Sox might be trying to do just that.

Link (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/414414-chicago-white-sox-targeting-milwaukees-prince-fielder)

Lillian
07-02-2010, 05:00 PM
Yep, Albert Pujols wouldn't help this team at all.

Now that's just silly. Of course, a super star offensive monster would be most welcome. However, acquiring one is not realistic, nor is the lack of one the biggest impediment to this team's success.

All that I am saying is that this team needs a LH impact bat more than anything else. Therefore, that is what K.W. should be, and in fact by his own admission, is pursuing.

Foulke You
07-02-2010, 05:40 PM
Now that's just silly. Of course, a super star offensive monster would be most welcome. However, acquiring one is not realistic, nor is the lack of one the biggest impediment to this team's success.

All that I am saying is that this team needs a LH impact bat more than anything else. Therefore, that is what K.W. should be, and in fact by his own admission, is pursuing.
I agree that LH bat would be ideal but what I'm arguing is that a right handed impact bat would help us too. A right handed hitter like Corey Hart is not Albert Pujols, but he would be a huge upgrade over the Kotsay/Jones situation.

Lillian
07-02-2010, 06:10 PM
I agree that LH bat would be ideal but what I'm arguing is that a right handed impact bat would help us too. A right handed hitter like Corey Hart is not Albert Pujols, but he would be a huge upgrade over the Kotsay/Jones situation.

Yes, of course he would help. However, do we really want to use the few trading chips we have on another right handed bat?

Pablo_Honey
07-02-2010, 07:20 PM
Yes, of course he would help. However, do we really want to use the few trading chips we have on another right handed bat?
Right or left, if he can hit, bring him on. I'd prefer we go after a LH bat because the ones supposedly availalbe profile the kind of bat we need but if there is a RH bat who can mash, I see no reason why we shouldn't acquire him.

BringHomeDaBacon
07-02-2010, 07:59 PM
I agree. If you can get a big time impact hitter who is right handed, KW should explore that option too. Supposedly, the Brewers might be listening to offers for Corey Hart. That kid can rake and is having a monster year:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7336

Corey's splits against right handers aren't too shabby either.

Corey Hart is an absolutely terrible idea. The last thing we should be doing is buying high based on a half season's worth of performance. Of course the Brewers are listening to offers for Corey Hart. His value has never been higher.

tm1119
07-02-2010, 11:04 PM
The only realistic options mentioned in this thread are Kelly Johnson, Laroche, and Scott. The rest are either not worth acquiring at all or are just way out our reach. We have 5 legit prospects that other teams will want. Thats it. No way we our going to be able to muster up enough to get an all-star level bat like Prince with any other team competing for his services.

I would also like to add 1 of Seth Smith or Brad Hawpe from Colorado as legit options. They have Carlos Gonzalez, Dexter Fowler, Smith, Hawpe, and Spilborghs(sp?) in their OF right now so they clearly could afford to lose 1 of those left handed OF's. Smith is the more likely to be traded, as Hawpe has a much better track record for his career as a hitter. Colorado would surely be looking for SP. I wonder if Freddy for Smith would be a good trade for both teams? Do we have enough confidence in Hudson for that? Just throwing an idea out there.

Pablo_Honey
07-03-2010, 02:28 AM
I would also like to add 1 of Seth Smith or Brad Hawpe from Colorado as legit options. They have Carlos Gonzalez, Dexter Fowler, Smith, Hawpe, and Spilborghs(sp?) in their OF right now so they clearly could afford to lose 1 of those left handed OF's. Smith is the more likely to be traded, as Hawpe has a much better track record for his career as a hitter. Colorado would surely be looking for SP. I wonder if Freddy for Smith would be a good trade for both teams? Do we have enough confidence in Hudson for that? Just throwing an idea out there.
Well, I think they'd get rid of Hawpe instead of Smith because Hawpe has an $10 mil option for next season and then he becomes a FA, as opposed to Smith who's only in his second year of service time so he's under team control for a long time. Either would be fine but personally I like Hawpe's plate discipline and track record. Having said that, I don't think Freddy has the value to be used in a straight-up exchange with one of those two. The Rox would most likely ask for Gavin or a package built around Hudson. Considering they are trying to stay alive in the race, they would want a proven starter like Gavin over iffy one like Freddy (Don't get me wrong, he's been great for us but his health and effectiveness down the road are still questionable) or unproven one like Hudson. In that case, we say no thanks and walk away.

Lillian
07-03-2010, 04:54 AM
Well, I think they'd get rid of Hawpe instead of Smith because Hawpe has an $10 mil option for next season and then he becomes a FA, as opposed to Smith who's only in his second year of service time so he's under team control for a long time. Either would be fine but personally I like Hawpe's plate discipline and track record. Having said that, I don't think Freddy has the value to be used in a straight-up exchange with one of those two. The Rox would most likely ask for Gavin or a package built around Hudson. Considering they are trying to stay alive in the race, they would want a proven starter like Gavin over iffy one like Freddy (Don't get me wrong, he's been great for us but his health and effectiveness down the road are still questionable) or unproven one like Hudson. In that case, we say no thanks and walk away.

I read that Hawpe can void the $10 mil club option for next season, if he is traded. In that case he would become a free agent. We would end up with a 1/2 season rental. That might be ok, and it would probably make him pretty affordable for this year. They just might take Freddy for him.

We can always try to sign Freddy again at the end of the season. As long as Ozzie is here, we should have the "inside track".

soxinem1
07-03-2010, 08:31 AM
I'm suprised there is not more talk about Adam LaRoche. While not 100% ideal, he is a definite upgrade over what we have, and ARI is one of KW's favorite trade partners.

LaRoche is not hitting a ton average wise, but he is on pace for his first 100 RBI season, does not have a huge salary, and is a FA at the end of the season.

Zisk77
07-03-2010, 10:21 AM
Now that's just silly. Of course, a super star offensive monster would be most welcome. However, acquiring one is not realistic, nor is the lack of one the biggest impediment to this team's success.

All that I am saying is that this team needs a LH impact bat more than anything else. Therefore, that is what K.W. should be, and in fact by his own admission, is pursuing.


While a LH bat would be ideal for balance, this concept is overated. A good rh bat would be an upgrade at our DH and work out fine. Consider the Phillies last year during free agency. They were a predominately LH hitting team and they were losing a rH slugger in Pat Burrel. So did they sign the best rh bat available? No, they signed the best bat available, Raul Ibanez and that worked oyt great.

I'm sure one of the following would improve our club if a LH bat weren't available:

Carlos Lee
Corey Hart (TCQ to DH)
Vernon Wells (can't take that salary)
Jose Bautista (could play 3b or corner Of as well as DH)
Dan Uggla
Jorge Cantu
Jose Guillen (clubhouse cancer)
Jhonny Peralta
Austin Kearnes

They may not fit as well as Dunn, Fielder, Berkman, etc. but they would still be a marked improvement over Kotsay/Jones.

Pablo_Honey
07-03-2010, 12:09 PM
I'm suprised there is not more talk about Adam LaRoche. While not 100% ideal, he is a definite upgrade over what we have, and ARI is one of KW's favorite trade partners.

LaRoche is not hitting a ton average wise, but he is on pace for his first 100 RBI season, does not have a huge salary, and is a FA at the end of the season.
At first I thought the D-Backs would be hesitant to trade away Laroche due to lack of replacements but then I realized we gave away Brandon Allen to acquire Pena (Ugh...). So yeah, I agree that Laroche makes sense as an option. Something like Torres + Nunez + Griffith for Laroche might work given their need for pitching.

Foulke You
07-03-2010, 11:06 PM
Corey Hart is an absolutely terrible idea. The last thing we should be doing is buying high based on a half season's worth of performance. Of course the Brewers are listening to offers for Corey Hart. His value has never been higher.
Hart has been a consistent run producer since 2007. This isn't a flash in the pan for him. The numbers were down a bit in 2009 only because I believe he missed some time with an injury that limited him to 115 games. Otherwise, he has been a steady 20+HR and 85-90RBI man. This would be a welcome addition to any lineup, right handed or not.

Lillian
07-03-2010, 11:25 PM
I'd like to revisit the idea I raised the other day.
Freddy has been terrific for us, and proven that he can still be effective, even with less velocity on his fast ball. The guy always competes, and his splitter has improved over the last couple of years, to the point where he seems to be able to just mix in his fast ball enough to keep hitters honest. His curve and splitter, combined with his command have made him a real "pitcher", instead of a thrower.

However, he is still our 5th starter, and if the rest of the staff pitches well enough to make this a post season calibre team, then he really wouldn't even start in the play offs. As the 5th starter, he would be the odd man out.

Moreover, he'll be a free agent at the end of the year. If the Sox wanted him back, they could probably sign him at a home town discount because of his relationship with Ozzie.

The Sox have Hudson ready to take over the 5th starter role, and they really should take the opportunity during the second half of this season to find out if he's up to the task going forward.

Freddy would be a very useful starter to a few contending teams. If they can find that left handed, middle of the order bat, in exchange for Garcia, I think it makes sense. The difference between the quality innings they would get from Hudson vs. Garcia would likely not be as critical to their success as the presence of a solid left handed hitter in the middle of the lineup.

Maybe the Rockies would take Garcia for Hawpe. They already have two other left handed hitters in their outfield with Gonzales and Smith.
We could even include Jones to give the Rockies some extra outfield depth.

The Rockies would probably prefer a southpaw, as they only have one left handed starter, but they might settle for Garcia. There is the issue of the breaking ball in the thin Colorado air, as Freddy is a breaking ball pitcher.
That could be a problem.

Hawpe could hit 5th, thus breaking up the string of right handed hitters, and his OBP would represent a significant improvement.
He's not the only guy for whom they could trade in exchange for Freddy, but it's the type of deal that makes a lot of sense to me.

Brian26
07-03-2010, 11:58 PM
While a LH bat would be ideal for balance, this concept is overated. A good rh bat would be an upgrade at our DH and work out fine. Consider the Phillies last year during free agency. They were a predominately LH hitting team and they were losing a rH slugger in Pat Burrel. So did they sign the best rh bat available? No, they signed the best bat available, Raul Ibanez and that worked oyt great.

I'm sure one of the following would improve our club if a LH bat weren't available:

Carlos Lee
Corey Hart (TCQ to DH)
Vernon Wells (can't take that salary)
Jose Bautista (could play 3b or corner Of as well as DH)
Dan Uggla
Jorge Cantu
Jose Guillen (clubhouse cancer)
Jhonny Peralta
Austin Kearnes

They may not fit as well as Dunn, Fielder, Berkman, etc. but they would still be a marked improvement over Kotsay/Jones.

There's one guy that I have on my fantasy team that I really like. I wonder if Kenny could pull him away from the Nats. He's a RH hitter, but he's progressively been getting better over the years and is posting a .900 OPS. He hit 15 HRs in '08, 24 last year, and he's on pace for 30 this season:

Josh Willingham

Rockabilly
07-04-2010, 12:09 AM
I read somewhere the other day that Jayson Werth might be put on the trading block.

Craig Grebeck
07-04-2010, 12:10 AM
I read somewhere the other day that Jason Werth might be put on the trading block.
Link?

Nah, nevermind.

Edit: <1 minute later, http://www.csnphilly.com/07/01/10/Phillies-Exploring-Werth-Trade/landing_word_street.html?blockID=264671&feedID=718

WSox597
07-04-2010, 07:50 AM
Here’s an interesting possibility: What about Jim Edmonds?
I know he’s 40, but hear me out.
The guy is still a dangerous hitter vs. RHP.
This year in very limited service:
127 AB .260 AVG .329 OBP with 14 doubles. That’s more than one double every 10 at bats.

We all remember that incredible performance he put on with the Cubs in 2008, when he hit 17 doubles and 19 homers in just half a season.
He missed the whole season last year, but he seems healthy again, and wouldn’t be called upon to do anything but DH, unlike his season with the Cubs, where he played CF.

He demonstrated that he can still hit by having a very good April, when he hit .298 with a .394 OBP. He missed the last 2 weeks of May with a strained left oblique, and has struggled a little since coming back from the DL, but appears to have recovered.

He's still in pretty good shape,and would be dangerous enough to hit in the middle of the order vs. RHP.
He's only owed less than half a million dollars for the rest of this year, and it shouldn’t take much to get him.

The Sox could then wait until the end of the season, and just try to sign Fielder as a free agent.


I think we know where he would wind up with Ozzie as manager.

Center field. No teal implied.

Other than that, I like your logic here. He may still have some left in the tank, certainly more than Jones appears to have left.

Lillian
07-04-2010, 07:57 AM
While a LH bat would be ideal for balance, this concept is overated. A good rh bat would be an upgrade at our DH and work out fine. Consider the Phillies last year during free agency. They were a predominately LH hitting team and they were losing a rH slugger in Pat Burrel. So did they sign the best rh bat available? No, they signed the best bat available, Raul Ibanez and that worked oyt great.

I'm sure one of the following would improve our club if a LH bat weren't available:

Carlos Lee
Corey Hart (TCQ to DH)
Vernon Wells (can't take that salary)
Jose Bautista (could play 3b or corner Of as well as DH)
Dan Uggla
Jorge Cantu
Jose Guillen (clubhouse cancer)
Jhonny Peralta
Austin Kearnes

They may not fit as well as Dunn, Fielder, Berkman, etc. but they would still be a marked improvement over Kotsay/Jones.

It's hard to be too overly weighted with left handed hitters, for several reasons. Most pitchers are, of course, right handed. Therefore, when you get into those late inning match ups, few teams have enough good left handed relievers in their bullpens to play that match up game.

Then there are all of the other factors that make hitting left handed an inherent advantage. You know, things like being a step to closer to first base from the batter's box, and the natural follow through on the swing taking the batter in the direction of first base.

The lack of at least one good and dangerous LH hitter is unquestionably a serious short coming of this team. It bears repeating as a response to every post that suggests another right handed hitter as a trade target.

Some may disagree with this emphasis on the need for a left handed bat, but all that matters is what K.W. thinks, and another RH hitter, is not his priority.

BringHomeDaBacon
07-04-2010, 09:22 AM
There's one guy that I have on my fantasy team that I really like. I wonder if Kenny could pull him away from the Nats. He's a RH hitter, but he's progressively been getting better over the years and is posting a .900 OPS. He hit 15 HRs in '08, 24 last year, and he's on pace for 30 this season:

Josh Willingham

I agree that Willingham would make an excellent addition. His power would play nicely at the Cell. In addition to his 25-30 HR potential he has decent speed (as we know from his 7 steals - I have him too). Rios, Quentin and Willingham would be an extremely dangerous outfield.

I imagine he would be available at a much more reasonable price than Dunn and offers a well rounded game. Great call - I hope KW agrees with you.

russ99
07-04-2010, 09:39 AM
I think we know where he would wind up with Ozzie as manager.

Center field. No teal implied.

Other than that, I like your logic here. He may still have some left in the tank, certainly more than Jones appears to have left.

Yeah, right OK.

Ozzie's going to pull Rios who's our best htter and defensive OF for a 40 year old on his last legs. :rolleyes:

Some of you just can't stand the guy for supposed horrible crimes against Anderson, but this is just ludicrous...

Zisk77
07-04-2010, 10:17 AM
It's hard to be too overly weighted with left handed hitters, for several reasons. Most pitchers are, of course, right handed. Therefore, when you get into those late inning match ups, few teams have enough good left handed relievers in their bullpens to play that match up game.

Then there are all of the other factors that make hitting left handed an inherent advantage. You know, things like being a step to closer to first base from the batter's box, and the natural follow through on the swing taking the batter in the direction of first base.

The lack of at least one good and dangerous LH hitter is unquestionably a serious short coming of this team. It bears repeating as a response to every post that suggests another right handed hitter as a trade target.

Some may disagree with this emphasis on the need for a left handed bat, but all that matters is what K.W. thinks, and another RH hitter, is not his priority.

I think you mean weighted with RH hitters?

I understand and agree that a LH would be ideal.

However, if the RH hitter is significantlt better than an available Lefty than you take the RH hitter?

RH hitters have seen RH pitchers all there lives there not exotic to them. In fact, many rh hitters would prefer to hit rh pitchers than Lh.

It LH hitters that usually struggle greatly to hit LH pitching.

Closer to 1b? C'mon this isn't little league. How many infield hits is Adam Dunn going to have? He's going o get to 1b on a slow roller faster than Corey Hart...really?

The biggest advantage of balance is that in late innings the opposing manager has to bring in multiple pitchers (a la Larussa) or be faced with leaving a RH to throw to a lefty or lh pitcher to throw to a righty (like Ozzie often does letting Thonton strike out whoever).

Which, if you think about is a similar argument...you need a blance of rh and lh arms in the pen. No, its ideal to have that bet its better to have arms that can get people out.

So simply, its in our best interest to get someone like Dunn or Fielder if we can. But, if they aren't available or too expensive ($ and/or prospect wise) then it woud be better to just get the best hitter.

Example: Corey Hart or Carlos Lee over Larouche or Branyan.

And I agree that having no dangerous lh hitters is a problem (although one might argue A.J. is dangerous) and is and should be a priority...the number one priority. Still, get the best slugger you can maybe 2.

Lillian
07-04-2010, 11:06 AM
i think you mean weighted with rh hitters?

I understand and agree that a lh would be ideal.

However, if the rh hitter is significantlt better than an available lefty than you take the rh hitter?

Rh hitters have seen rh pitchers all there lives there not exotic to them. In fact, many rh hitters would prefer to hit rh pitchers than lh.

It lh hitters that usually struggle greatly to hit lh pitching.

Closer to 1b? C'mon this isn't little league. How many infield hits is adam dunn going to have? He's going o get to 1b on a slow roller faster than corey hart...really?

The biggest advantage of balance is that in late innings the opposing manager has to bring in multiple pitchers (a la larussa) or be faced with leaving a rh to throw to a lefty or lh pitcher to throw to a righty (like ozzie often does letting thonton strike out whoever).

Which, if you think about is a similar argument...you need a blance of rh and lh arms in the pen. No, its ideal to have that bet its better to have arms that can get people out.

So simply, its in our best interest to get someone like dunn or fielder if we can. But, if they aren't available or too expensive ($ and/or prospect wise) then it woud be better to just get the best hitter.

Example: Corey hart or carlos lee over larouche or branyan.

And i agree that having no dangerous lh hitters is a problem (although one might argue a.j. Is dangerous) and is and should be a priority...the number one priority. Still, get the best slugger you can maybe 2.

No, I meant exactly what i said; "It's hard to be overly weighted with left handed hitters". In other words; you can't have too many left handed hitters

The point about inherent advantages for LH hitters was just a generalization, I wasn't referring specifically to Dunn, who as you correctly stated, is not going to get any infield hits.

The late inning match ups by opposing bullpens is precisely the point which I was making. Therefore, apparently we agree on that.

The point about match ups is not quite the same with a preponderance of RH hitters, because relievers are only good for an inning or so each, and few teams have more than a couple of lefties in their bullpens. It's much more difficult for most bullpens to face a predominantly left handed hitting lineup.

Zisk77
07-04-2010, 11:12 AM
No, I meant exactly what i said; "It's hard to be overly weighted with left handed hitters". In other words; you can't have too many left handed hitters

The point about inherent advantages for LH hitters was just a generalization, I wasn't referring specifically to Dunn, who as you correctly stated, is not going to get any infield hits.

The late inning match ups by opposing bullpens is precisely the point which I was making. Therefore, apparently we agree on that.

The point about match ups is not quite the same with a preponderance of RH hitters, because relievers are only good for an inning or so each, and few teams have more than a couple of lefties in their bullpens. It's much more difficult for most bullpens to face a predominantly left handed hitting lineup.

Well, then I disagree with you can't be too left handed. Lefties generally struggle to hit lefties. If your line-up consists of nothing but lefties they are really going to struggle against lefty pitching.

Rockabilly
07-04-2010, 11:38 AM
Choo is out for 6-8 weeks

Lillian
07-04-2010, 12:19 PM
Well, then I disagree with you can't be too left handed. Lefties generally struggle to hit lefties. If your line-up consists of nothing but lefties they are really going to struggle against lefty pitching.

Yes, I agree. You really wouldn't want all lefties, but if you had to be overweighted with one or the other, I'd prefer lefties.

In any case, it's academic, because it will be a long time before this team becomes too left handed.

Thanks for the civil discourse. It's so nice to have a discussion without all of the insults and vitriol. You're a gentleman.

Ranger
07-04-2010, 03:02 PM
Nick Markakis has been a huge dissapointment in my book. To not hit for power in that park is crazy.

Huge disappointment? What the hell? You aware of the rest of his numbers?

Anyway, I have a hard time believing Choo would be traded within the division.

Craig Grebeck
07-04-2010, 03:05 PM
Huge disappointment? What the hell? You aware of the rest of his numbers?

Anyway, I have a hard time believing Choo would be traded within the division.
I think some expected the power to come earlier. But given his almost 1:1 K/BB ratio and his uptick in doubles, I'm confident he's going to break out either second half 2010, 2011, or 2012.

I think the Orioles believe the same.

Agreed on Choo.

Brian26
07-04-2010, 03:16 PM
I agree that Willingham would make an excellent addition. His power would play nicely at the Cell. In addition to his 25-30 HR potential he has decent speed (as we know from his 7 steals - I have him too). Rios, Quentin and Willingham would be an extremely dangerous outfield.

I imagine he would be available at a much more reasonable price than Dunn and offers a well rounded game. Great call - I hope KW agrees with you.

I was doing some reading on him last night....looks like the Nats would probably want to move Dunn before Willingham because of their age difference. They're looking to build around the latter.

Lillian
07-04-2010, 03:31 PM
There's one guy that I have on my fantasy team that I really like. I wonder if Kenny could pull him away from the Nats. He's a RH hitter, but he's progressively been getting better over the years and is posting a .900 OPS. He hit 15 HRs in '08, 24 last year, and he's on pace for 30 this season:

Josh Willingham

Yes, he's a very attractive player, and if the Sox could get him in the same way you acquired him for your "fantasy team", I'm sure that he would be a welcome addition.

Unfortunately, this isn't fantasy baseball. It would take much more than the Sox could afford to give up in order to land him. Moreover, you said it; "He's a RH hitter". Need I say more?

Brian26
07-04-2010, 03:36 PM
Yes, he's a very attractive player, and if the Sox could get him in the same way you acquired him for your "fantasy team", I'm sure that he would be a welcome addition.

Unfortunately, this isn't fantasy baseball. It would take much more than the Sox could afford to give up in order to land him. Moreover, you said it; "He's a RH hitter". Need I say more?

The mention of fantasy baseball was only made to illustrate that I've followed him (and his stats) as a National League player a bit more than I usually would since he rarely plays the Sox (and, nationally (no pun intended), he doesn't get much press).

How I acquired him is ancillary to the conversation. You have no idea if I picked him off waivers or traded Pujols and Halladay for him.

Craig Grebeck
07-04-2010, 03:38 PM
Yes, he's a very attractive player, and if the Sox could get him in the same way you acquired him for your "fantasy team", I'm sure that he would be a welcome addition.

Unfortunately, this isn't fantasy baseball. It would take much more than the Sox could afford to give up in order to land him. Moreover, you said it; "He's a RH hitter". Need I say more?
No, no, save the illogical "NO MORE RH BATS!" stuff for someone else. He's a career .265/.361/.473 hitter against RHP. He's .275/.404/.482 this season.

Lillian
07-04-2010, 04:02 PM
Ok, fellas. I give up. I know that I'm "beating a dead horse". So I'll stop.
I'm just very confident that K.W. will not trade for another RH hitter, before he fills the more pressing need for a LH bat.

You may all continue with your recommendations for this or that RH hitter, and I'm sure that it will provide everyone with great entertainment value.

It just seems like an exercise in futility, and so I'll stop my harangue.

If the Sox were to acquire another right handed hitter, it would almost certainly be a lateral move in which they gave up one of the rh hitters on the roster. It will surely not be in exchange for any of the oft discussed trading chips, like Hudson, Flowers or Jordan Danks. It's all about priorities, and Kenny has the acquisition of a LH, middle of the order bat, as his number one priority

Thanks for all of the comments, and I hope that I haven't offended anyone.
Happy Independence Day

Lillian
07-05-2010, 08:01 AM
Just to add a point regarding my suggestion that Edmonds might be a low cost option for the rest of this year: He has always been especially dangerous vs RH pitching. Even this year vs. RHP, he's hitting .280 with a .345 OBP, with 14 doubles in just 132 at bats. That's a double every ten at bats.

He could provide a left handed presence in the middle of the line up, and could probably hold up in a DH role. Of course, he's no longer a premiere player, but he would likely come very cheap, allowing the Sox to keep the few good prospects they have.

I share the enthusiasm for Dunn and Fielder, and some of the other names discussed. However, the cost may be too high. The Sox only need to find someone for the next 3 1/2 months. Wouldn't it be better to hold on to our prospects, and sign a left handed free agent, for next year?

Balfanman
07-05-2010, 09:19 AM
Just to add a point regarding my suggestion that Edmonds might be a low cost option for the rest of this year: He has always been especially dangerous vs RH pitching. Even this year vs. RHP, he's hitting .280 with a .345 OBP, with 14 doubles in just 132 at bats. That's a double every ten at bats.

He could provide a left handed presence in the middle of the line up, and could probably hold up in a DH role. Of course, he's no longer a premiere player, but he would likely come very cheap, allowing the Sox to keep the few good prospects they have.

I share the enthusiasm for Dunn and Fielder, and some of the other names discussed. However, the cost may be too high. The Sox only need to find someone for the next 3 1/2 months. Wouldn't it be better to hold on to our prospects, and sign a left handed free agent, for next year?

I agree with most of what you've been saying, especially the bolded part. Someone like Jim Edmunds may be the best short term solution and also help us out long term by keeping our prospects.

Tragg
07-05-2010, 11:20 AM
If we're going to have to give up legitimate propects, a right fielder who can be with us for a while and who isn't a butcher.

BringHomeDaBacon
07-05-2010, 11:40 AM
Yes, he's a very attractive player, and if the Sox could get him in the same way you acquired him for your "fantasy team", I'm sure that he would be a welcome addition.

Unfortunately, this isn't fantasy baseball.

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure he wasn't referring to a scenario where all players are placed into a free agent pool so that the teams can then redraft players every year.

Brian26
07-05-2010, 12:08 PM
I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure he wasn't referring to a scenario where all players are placed into a free agent pool so that the teams can then redraft players every year.

Everybody who plays fantasy baseball or roto ball has slightly different rules for their league. My league doesn't even use keepers. We start fresh every year. This is all really ancillary stuff though. I picked Willingham up off waivers about six weeks ago in my league because he slipped through the draft.

Tragg
07-05-2010, 03:38 PM
Maybe we could trade 1/2 year of Jenks for 1/2 year of a hitter. It's a little risky, but this team is only a marginal contender and trading away the future for 1/2 season is more risky.
One of those NL teams could use a closer.