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View Full Version : Cliff Lee to the Twins?


DonnieDarko
06-22-2010, 05:36 PM
No link, just heard it on B&B as they were interviewing a Seattle sports writer. Even he said it wasn't a sure thing, only that the Twins seem to have the inside track to Cliff Lee here. I wanted to get WSI's reaction to this, to see if people see just how bad that would be for us if this deal happened...

october23sp
06-22-2010, 05:40 PM
0 chance. I wouldn't mind it actually, they would have to get rid of the cornucopia of talent they always seem to have in the Minor leagues and that would probably benefit us in the long wrong.

Slappy
06-22-2010, 05:42 PM
And this season is OVAH! If it's true...

Lee + Liriano? I don't wanna think about it.

kobo
06-22-2010, 05:51 PM
There has been speculation for a few days now that the Twins will be in the Lee sweepstakes. Mariners want some young bats, and the Twins currently have a catching prospect that could appeal to Seattle, Wilson Ramos. But the Twins also want to address 3B and bullpen, so who knows what will happen. They are in a good position though because they have the money to spend if needed.

Marqhead
06-22-2010, 05:54 PM
There has been speculation for a few days now that the Twins will be in the Lee sweepstakes. Mariners want some young bats, and the Twins currently have a catching prospect that could appeal to Seattle, Wilson Ramos. But the Twins also want to address 3B and bullpen, so who knows what will happen. They are in a good position though because they have the money to spend if needed.

This is the first thing I thought of when I saw this. It would just be a rental though as I don't think the Twins have the money to commit to him. Would they be willing to give up a top flight prospect for a playoff push? Seems un-Twin like.

JohnTucker0814
06-22-2010, 05:55 PM
I'd be okay if the Twins gave up 2 or 3 of their top prospects to get Lee. The Sox always seem to play better against the better pitchers anyways, and Lee would be a 1/2 year rental anways!

Slappy
06-22-2010, 05:56 PM
I was under the impression that they didn't have much money to spend at all. Although honestly, if they get Lee, that will indeed put the Twins over the edge and into serious championship contenders, if they weren't already.

I wonder, would Slowey be sent down or traded or what.... He seems to be the weakest link in that rotation.

DumpJerry
06-22-2010, 06:20 PM
The Twins have experienced a huge increase in revenue thanks, in large part, to extremely high ticket sales at the new park.

Also, Twins' owner Carl Pohlad (net worth over one billion dollars, but refused to spend it) died about a year ago and his son took over the team. Sound familiar?

Slappy
06-22-2010, 06:56 PM
Right. Plus they'd sell more merch/tickets etc if they made a deep run into the playoffs. I don't know how much they'd have to pay Lee, and I don't have the time to try to find out, but it's hard to believe that the Twins wouldn't do almost whatever it takes to get him.

KMcMahon817
06-22-2010, 11:03 PM
The Twinkies have a young catching prospect by the name of Wilson Ramos who is expendable due to Mauer. The Mariners are in dire need of a MLB ready bat at catcher, and Ramos would fit that bill. I also heard today on a Minneapolis sports radio station that the Twins would be willing to part with one of their starters, probably Blackburn, if Lee were coming back in the deal.

I keep telling my buddies (who are all Twins fans) that it is not going to happen because it would be so far from the norm for that organization. But, I must admit, I am a little worried. Ticket sales are WAY up and it wouldn't surprise me to see the Twins make a big move, such as adding a pitcher like Lee.

Craig Grebeck
06-22-2010, 11:04 PM
The Twinkies have a young catching prospect by the name of Wilson Ramos who is expendable due to Mauer. The Mariners are in dire need of a MLB ready bat at catcher, and Ramos would fit that bill. I also heard today on a Minneapolis sports radio station that the Twins would be willing to part with one of their starters, probably Blackburn, if Lee were coming back in the deal.

I keep telling my buddies (who are all Twins fans) that it is not going to happen because it would be so far from the norm for that organization. But, I must admit, I am a little worried. Ticket sales are WAY up and it wouldn't surprise me to see the Twins make a big move, such as adding a pitcher like Lee.
In what universe is Wilson Ramos' bat MLB-ready?

mzh
06-22-2010, 11:11 PM
In what universe is Wilson Ramos' bat MLB-ready?
This one, in which he hit .296 for a week filling in for Mauer.

KMcMahon817
06-22-2010, 11:18 PM
In what universe is Wilson Ramos' bat MLB-ready?

Seattle Mariners catchers in 2010:

Rob Johnson: Batting average: .202 (lifetime .204) HR: 2 RBI: 10

Adam Moore: BA: .193 HR: 1 RBI: 4

Eliezer Alfonzo: BA: .242 HR: 1 RBI: 4

Josh Bard: BA: .273 (22 ab's) HR: 1 RBI: 4

Hell of a group, I know.

It doesn't take rocket science to see that the Mariners are in need of a catcher. Ramos hit .317 in nearly 500 at bats last season in the minors. He has struggled a bit with the bat so far this year in AAA but he hit pretty well (.297 BA in 27 at bats) in limited time with the Twins this season.

Ramos is a pretty solid catching prospect and he is sure better than the **** the Mariners have been throwing out there this season. It's not exactly like good, 22 year old catching prospects grow on trees.

However, if the Yankees get in on the Lee bidding and offer Jesus Montero, it is rather unlikely that the Twins will be able to match.

Craig Grebeck
06-22-2010, 11:20 PM
This one, in which he hit .296 for a week filling in for Mauer.
Batting average, considered the most volatile hitting statistic of them all, in a week's time? Great evidence. Care to explain why that MLB-readiness didn't translate to AAA?

It doesn't take rocket science to see that the Mariners are in need of a catcher. Ramos hit .317 in nearly 500 at bats last season in the minors. He has struggled a bit with the bat so far this year in AAA but he hit pretty well (.297 BA in 27 at bats) in limited time with the Twins this season.

Struggled a bit?

.218/.250/.330

Now, I don't think that's a large enough sample size to say he's a washout -- but I will say he's not ready today, regardless of twenty-seven at-bats.

KMcMahon817
06-22-2010, 11:25 PM
Batting average, considered the most volatile hitting statistic of them all, in a week's time? Great evidence. Care to explain why that MLB-readiness didn't translate to AAA?


Struggled a bit?

.218/.250/.330

Now, I don't think that's a large enough sample size to say he's a washout -- but I will say he's not ready today, regardless of twenty-seven at-bats.

He may not be ready today, but like I said, he's sure as hell better than Moore, Johnson, Alfonzo and Bard. Believe what you want, but Ramos is a very good catching prospect.

Craig Grebeck
06-22-2010, 11:29 PM
He may not be ready today, but like I said, he's sure as hell better than Moore, Johnson, Alfonzo and Bard. Believe what you want, but Ramos is a very good catching prospect.
I'm sorry, I must have misunderstood you when you stated:

The Mariners are in dire need of a MLB ready bat at catcher, and Ramos would fit that bill.

Emphasis mine. Confusion, well, that seems mutual.

Is he a better option than Moore? I don't know -- I believe he can have a decent career. Sure, Ramos is a good prospect, but he's just a prospect; and with the way catchers start their careers (slowly, the great majority of the time), acquiring Ramos and expecting anything resembling initial or immediate success is foolish at best.

KMcMahon817
06-22-2010, 11:31 PM
I'm sorry, I must have misunderstood you when you stated:


Emphasis mine. Confusion, well, that seems mutual.

Is he a better option than Moore? I don't know -- I believe he can have a decent career. Sure, Ramos is a good prospect, but he's just a prospect; and with the way catchers start their careers (slowly, the great majority of the time), acquiring Ramos and expecting anything resembling initial or immediate success is foolish at best.

No you didn't misunderstand me at all, guy. I just said he may not be ready today so I didn't have to get into a back and forth bitchfest that you seem to attract yourself to on a daily basis on this website. No one wants to read it.

Craig Grebeck
06-22-2010, 11:34 PM
No you didn't misunderstand me at all, guy. I just said he may not be ready today so I didn't have to get into a back and forth bitchfest that you seem to attract yourself to on a daily basis on this website. No one wants to read it.
Welp, that sentence is a trainwreck in more ways than one.

Let me put it this way: Ramos may be a piece in a deal for Cliff Lee, but I'm sure he won't be the best prospect. The Mariners may have a dearth of talent at catcher, but given their record and the presence of an okay guy like Adam Moore (who, at the least, is a decent defender), they've got bigger holes to fill.

KMcMahon817
06-22-2010, 11:37 PM
Welp, that sentence is a trainwreck in more ways than one.

Let me put it this way: Ramos may be a piece in a deal for Cliff Lee, but I'm sure he won't be the best prospect. The Mariners may have a dearth of talent at catcher, but given their record and the presence of an okay guy like Adam Moore (who, at the least, is a decent defender), they've got bigger holes to fill.

Sorry, Dr. Grebeck. I should pay more attention to where I insert commas in a sentence. :rolleyes:

mzh
06-22-2010, 11:38 PM
:popcorn:

Nellie_Fox
06-23-2010, 12:31 AM
Discussion of this topic (http://mankatofreepress.com/sportscolumnists/x1617557328/Twins-should-take-a-long-look-at-Lee) by the very good baseball writer on the Mankato Free Press.

Tragg
06-23-2010, 12:53 AM
With Lee they give up 2 or 3 prospects; And the Twins being the type of org that they are are no doubt replete with prospects, so the cost isn't high anyway.
They get his services AND the draft choices.


The Twins will be hard to beat whatever they do.

when you give up a good prospect for one of these (for the most part declining) hitters, that's all you get...

Crede24Thome25
06-23-2010, 02:25 AM
And this season is OVAH! If it's true...

Lee + Liriano? I don't wanna think about it.
Liriano won't be as dominant throughout the entire season. He's done this time and time again over the past 2-3 years. He start off hot and then boom the suckfest begins(the twins have absolutely no pitching, unless they do get Lee).

Sam Spade
06-23-2010, 03:31 PM
Liriano won't be as dominant throughout the entire season. He's done this time and time again over the past 2-3 years. He start off hot and then boom the suckfest begins(the twins have absolutely no pitching, unless they do get Lee).

I don't remember him starting off hot then sucking. I remember him just sucking all year.

pythons007
06-23-2010, 03:39 PM
Liriano won't be as dominant throughout the entire season. He's done this time and time again over the past 2-3 years. He start off hot and then boom the suckfest begins(the twins have absolutely no pitching, unless they do get Lee).

Not quite sure where you get this from.

I don't remember him starting off hot then sucking. I remember him just sucking all year.

2006 he was better than Johan. 2007 he was injured and he didn't pitch came back in 2008. 2009 he was still recovering from surgery and was awful. He's fully healthy and dominating.

Crede24Thome25
06-23-2010, 03:54 PM
I don't remember him starting off hot then sucking. I remember him just sucking all year.

Not quite sure where you get this from.

2006 he was better than Johan. 2007 he was injured and he didn't pitch came back in 2008. 2009 he was still recovering from surgery and was awful. He's fully healthy and dominating.

I got it from seeing him first hand. The past two years or so the baseball experts get their Liriano mojo's going once he has a great start and it ends there basically after the All Star break. Look at his stats http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/liriafr01.shtml

Iwritecode
06-23-2010, 04:19 PM
I got it from seeing him first hand. The past two years or so the baseball experts get their Liriano mojo's going once he has a great start and it ends there basically after the All Star break. Look at his stats http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/liriafr01.shtml

Besides HR given up, his first half and second half splits aren't all that much different. :scratch:

Sam Spade
06-23-2010, 11:44 PM
Not quite sure where you get this from.



2006 he was better than Johan. 2007 he was injured and he didn't pitch came back in 2008. 2009 he was still recovering from surgery and was awful. He's fully healthy and dominating.
That's how I see it.

KMcMahon817
06-25-2010, 12:00 PM
Supposedly the Twins and Mariners had a deal in place yesterday that would have sent LHP Brian Duensing, C Wilson Ramos, and the Twins first round draft pick in 2007, Ben Revere, in exchange for Cliff Lee. Revere is a .331 hitter in parts of four seasons in the minors.

However, Ramos is currently on the 7 day DL due to a strained hamstring, so the deal is still pending until he is healthy. Hopefully the Mets swoop in and snag Lee in the meantime.

pythons007
06-25-2010, 01:05 PM
Supposedly the Twins and Mariners had a deal in place yesterday that would have sent LHP Brian Duensing, C Wilson Ramos, and the Twins first round draft pick in 2007, Ben Revere, in exchange for Cliff Lee. Revere is a .331 hitter in parts of four seasons in the minors.

However, Ramos is currently on the 7 day DL due to a strained hamstring, so the deal is still pending until he is healthy. Hopefully the Mets swoop in and snag Lee in the meantime.


I heard on the radio that Seattle might not even trade him. They feel they might still have a chance at the West and keep him for a strong 1-2 punch. They also have Bedard coming off the DL soon, which would add to the strength of the rotation.

I hope they keep him. Screw what Minny is offering. They will get minimum of 2 draft picks for offering arbitration if they can't secure a deal with him.

In all actuality, Seattle is a great place to pitch, they just need some power bats in the middle of their lineup and they could be a good to great team.

sox1970
07-05-2010, 09:28 PM
well, we'll see...
http://twitter.com/jclong/status/17835099604

whitesox4eva
07-05-2010, 09:36 PM
I don't want to start the Cliff Lee to Twins thread. I'm depressed.

well, we'll see...
http://twitter.com/jclong/status/17835099604

I'm not worried :tongue: But seriously while i'd rather the twins not getting Cliff Lee if we stay on this hot streak I don't see us falling off again just because they get a good pitcher. We still have just over half a season left so still plenty of baseball left to be played.

asindc
07-05-2010, 09:39 PM
I'm not worried :tongue: But seriously while i'd rather the twins not getting Cliff Lee if we stay on this hot streak I don't see us falling off again just because they get a good pitcher. We still have just over half a season left so still plenty of baseball left to be played.

Actually, we have exactly a half season left. Today was the 81st game played.

Sockinchisox
07-05-2010, 09:47 PM
They're supposedly talking about this right now on MLB Network, anyone watching?

ndgt10
07-06-2010, 09:23 AM
While it guarantees the Twins the division crown, they still won't get out of the 1st round.

asindc
07-06-2010, 09:25 AM
While it guarantees the Twins the division crown, they still won't get out of the 1st round.

I don't think it even guarantees that if Baker, Slowey, and Blackburn continue pitching like they have. Obviously, one of them will go to the bullpen if they sign Lee, but you still have the other two, along with Rauch showing signs of coming back down to earth.

Rockabilly
07-06-2010, 02:27 PM
http://twitter.com/pgammo/status/17874551322

Foulke You
07-07-2010, 05:28 PM
I don't think it even guarantees that if Baker, Slowey, and Blackburn continue pitching like they have. Obviously, one of them will go to the bullpen if they sign Lee, but you still have the other two, along with Rauch showing signs of coming back down to earth.
I agree. Getting Cliff Lee does not necessarily win the AL Central crown for the Twins. Their pitching staff has been very vulnerable lately. Even without Peavy, I still like our rotation better.

Sockinchisox
07-07-2010, 11:10 PM
Mariners, Rangers discussing Lee deal.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100707&content_id=12051180&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb&partnerId=rss_mlb

SBSoxFan
07-08-2010, 01:11 AM
It would just put them in a better position to compete with the Sox. :D:

esbrechtel
07-08-2010, 01:21 AM
Mariners, Rangers discussing Lee deal.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100707&content_id=12051180&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb&partnerId=rss_mlb

:praying:

Crede24Thome25
07-08-2010, 01:49 AM
:lol::praying:

Foulke You
07-08-2010, 04:15 PM
Mariners, Rangers discussing Lee deal.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100707&content_id=12051180&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb&partnerId=rss_mlb
This must not be true because people on WSI tell me that nobody trades within their division. :tongue:

sox1970
07-09-2010, 07:00 AM
Joel Sherman of the NY Post thinks the Yankees are close.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/yankees/yankees_on_brink_of_landing_cliff_b7oJw63k0cUXVdd0 2uuU1I

DumpJerry
07-09-2010, 07:26 AM
Lee will not solve the Twins' problems unless he can pitch in three of the five starter spots.

Nelfox02
07-09-2010, 08:09 AM
Gammons was on score today and basically said it was going to be Lee to Yankees---while I am happy he would not be going to the Twins, it just sucks to see NYY keep getting guys like this year in year out.


Also reported that somehow the Sox are front runners for Dunn?

DirtySox
07-09-2010, 09:36 AM
http://a1.twimg.com/profile_images/518275190/olney_buster_m_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN) Buster_ESPN (http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN)
Executive involved in Cliff Lee talks: The Yankees-Mariners deal "is just about done." 2 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/18122518225) via web

Tragg
07-09-2010, 09:43 AM
I'd rather Lee go to the Twins than the Yankees. Twins have pitching problems that Lee still doesn't cure.

Olney said something about the Yanks needing an "adequate" third baseman......have we got the man for them...


I think we're going to have to take a chance and trade Jenks if we want to make a real run, without white flagging next year already.

russ99
07-09-2010, 09:44 AM
http://a1.twimg.com/profile_images/518275190/olney_buster_m_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN) Buster_ESPN (http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN)
Executive involved in Cliff Lee talks: The Yankees-Mariners deal "is just about done." 2 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/18122518225) via web

Very strange. Like the Yankees need another starter...

sox1970
07-09-2010, 09:57 AM
Very strange. Like the Yankees need another starter...

They want a championship. Hughes may be limited with innings. Burnett and Vazquez haven't been reliable. Lee, Sabathia, and Pettitte are going to give them the best chance to win.

Tragg
07-09-2010, 10:01 AM
The Yanks will flip Vazquez to someone.
I really hope this doesn't happen. The Yanks are beatable as presently constructed.

hawkjt
07-09-2010, 11:27 AM
I hope it does happen. Sox have to get to the playoffs to even have a chance to beat the Yanks. Lee to Twins puts that chance at risk.

Frater Perdurabo
07-09-2010, 05:29 PM
This thread is moot.

The Twins are crappy; they are perpetual losers. :tongue:

Nellie_Fox
07-10-2010, 12:27 AM
This thread is moot.
Yes it is.