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View Full Version : Ozzie sucks bitchfest... *NOT THE GAME THREAD!*


mzh
06-22-2010, 01:28 PM
Aw, I wanted to see Dayan tonight :whiner:

Go get 'em!

LoveYourSuit
06-22-2010, 01:31 PM
Kotsay over Viciedo?

Man, this Kotsay guy has to have pictures of Ozzie doing odd things with odd animals.

Maybe they were passed on by Wise (who got them from Machowiak).

soltrain21
06-22-2010, 01:32 PM
And Dayan isn't playing why....?

Go away, Mark Kotsay.

sox1970
06-22-2010, 01:34 PM
It really is bull**** that Viciedo isn't playing. If you bring him up, you play him. Period. If he's not ready, he should be in Charlotte.

Sockinchisox
06-22-2010, 01:34 PM
And Dayan isn't playing why....?

Go away, Mark Kotsay.

Yeah, looks like they brought him up to be a bench/platoon player.

****ing stupid.

soltrain21
06-22-2010, 01:37 PM
Yeah, looks like they brought him up to be a bench/platoon player.

****ing stupid.

And I understand we need that lefty in the lineup - but that would only matter if that lefty could get on base.

I'll take my chances with the young right handed hitter who is swinging a good bat than the ****ty left hander that we know is ****ty.

You throw balance out the window when what you are trying to balance it with completely blows. I wish Ozzie realized that.

Dibbs
06-22-2010, 01:38 PM
Mark Kotsay sucks, and Ozzie is an idiot. Every year it is someone getting ABs that shouldn't. Fire Oz.

DumpJerry
06-22-2010, 01:38 PM
I did not realize that Steve Stone posted here under several different user names.

soltrain21
06-22-2010, 01:39 PM
I did not realize that Steve Stone posted here under several different user names.

I must be missing the reference...

LoveYourSuit
06-22-2010, 01:44 PM
I must be missing the reference...


Me too :scratch:

Sockinchisox
06-22-2010, 01:46 PM
I must be missing the reference...

He's comparing our complaining that Viciedo isn't playing to Stone complaining that Pinella wasn't playing Colvin.

russ99
06-22-2010, 01:47 PM
Kotsay over Viciedo?

Man, this Kotsay guy has to have pictures of Ozzie doing odd things with odd animals.

Maybe they were passed on by Wise (who got them from Machowiak).

Two good pitchers going for Atlanta the first two games of this series.

Ozzie doesn't want Dayan to get overmatched and lose his confidence. The Sox obviously want to ease him into major league pitching slowly.

Who among Jones, Castro, Lillibridge and Viciedo can give us better at-bats than Kotsay at this point? You guys deem a player "sucky" and assume Ozzie just puts him out there for no reason... If Kenny got him someone better, he'd play and Kotsay would be on the bench.

soltrain21
06-22-2010, 01:48 PM
Two good pitchers going for Atlanta the first two games of this series.

Ozzie doesn't want Dayan to get overmatched and lose his confidence.

Then he shouldn't be up. That's a stupid reason. Play him. Maybe he ISN'T overmatched and gets a hit or two and his confidence builds. There is no way benching him against tough pitchers helps his confidence.

"We can't play you today. Pitcher is too good."

mzh
06-22-2010, 01:49 PM
Two good pitchers going for Atlanta the first two games of this series.

Ozzie doesn't want Dayan to get overmatched and lose his confidence.
Ozzie doesn't want Dayan to see major league pitching? :scratch:

Maybe then he shouldn't have promoted him to the major leagues.

Unless of course this is one of those "Kenny wants it but Ozzie doesn't" disputes... :rolleyes:

LoveYourSuit
06-22-2010, 01:50 PM
Then he shouldn't be up. That's a stupid reason. Play him. Maybe he ISN'T overmatched and gets a hit or two and his confidence builds. There is no way benching him against tough pitchers helps his confidence.

"We can't play you today. Pitcher is too good."


Yeah, that should build his confidence.

LoveYourSuit
06-22-2010, 01:53 PM
He's comparing our complaining that Viciedo isn't playing to Stone complaining that Pinella wasn't playing Colvin.


There was nothing wrong with what Stone said.

So Dump was siding with Pinella?

russ99
06-22-2010, 01:57 PM
Ozzie doesn't want Dayan to see major league pitching? :scratch:

Maybe then he shouldn't have promoted him to the major leagues.

Unless of course this is one of those "Kenny wants it but Ozzie doesn't" disputes... :rolleyes:

Do you really think Dayan is ready for quality big league pitching? I don't. We don't want another Anderson or Borchard situation where the guy gets completely wiped out in his first call-up and loses all confidence in himself as a player and poof, goodbye quality prospect.

The Sox want this guy to fill a spot next year, so they're playing it a bit close to the vest. Look at Flowers' callup last year for how this can go very wrong.

hawkjt
06-22-2010, 01:57 PM
Hansen is brutally tough. He has an ERA in June of 1.9. He gave up 13 earned runs in back to back outings in mid-may but in the other 12 starts he has only given up 18 earned runs.

I can see why Ozzie opted for Kotsay,whose bat resulted in a win the other nites vs the Nats in extra innings. He is coming around and a lefty.

I thought Dayan had nice swings vs the lefty the other day,but against Storen he looked overmatched.

Paulwny
06-22-2010, 02:01 PM
Do you really think Dayan is ready for quality big league pitching? I don't. We don't want another Anderson or Borchard situation where the guy gets completely wiped out in his first call-up and loses all confidence in himself as a player and poof, goodbye quality prospect.


No one sat Oz to build his confidence. He played 150 games in his rookie season.

Domeshot17
06-22-2010, 02:02 PM
Here we go again. Can't wait for next year to hear all the excuses why Hudson, Flowers and possibly Jordan are all not getting consistent playing time.

Ozzie just has to go, this is just moronic. It isn't a factor of lineup, its a factor of Ozzie and his love for players who aren't any good but try hard. Kotsay, Erstad, Mackowiak et. all.

Incase Ozzie didn't notice, the offense hasn't been scoring much even during this winning streak. Maybe the Cubs would switch divisions with us? That way Ozzie could manage his NL team in the NL, and they could have a place to play Colvin

mzh
06-22-2010, 02:02 PM
Do you really think Dayan is ready for quality big league pitching? I don't. We don't want another Anderson or Borchard situation where the guy gets completely wiped out in his first call-up and loses all confidence in himself as a player and poof, goodbye quality prospect.
So Borchard and Anderson were busts because they lost confidence in themselves? Although I admit, Beckham's confidence was probably shattered after hitting .180 in his first ML month. That's why he's doing so poorly now!

Dibbs
06-22-2010, 02:03 PM
I can see why Ozzie opted for Kotsay,whose bat resulted in a win the other nites vs the Nats in extra innings. He is coming around and a lefty..

I will give you he is a lefty, but he is not coming around. He is actually at the end of his career and is hitting .194 in June.

kittle42
06-22-2010, 02:04 PM
No one sat Oz to build his confidence. He played 150 games in his rookie season.

True, but Ozzie was also not primarily an offensive player, back in the day where one could actually plug defensive-minded players into lineups without getting reamed.

kittle42
06-22-2010, 02:04 PM
I will give you he is a lefty, but he is not coming around. He is actually at the end of his career and is hitting .194 in June.

Just noticed that...Kotsay is "coming around?" Ha!!!!

russ99
06-22-2010, 02:06 PM
No one sat Oz to build his confidence. He played 150 games in his rookie season.

Oz didn't strike out 52 times in 238 at-bats to start the season when he was called up to the Show.

Paulwny
06-22-2010, 02:07 PM
True, but Ozzie was also not primarily an offensive player, back in the day where one could actually plug defensive-minded players into lineups without getting reamed.

Agree, but if he didn't hit at all he would have been sent down.
Sink or swim

Coops4Aces
06-22-2010, 02:09 PM
Do you really think Dayan is ready for quality big league pitching? I don't. We don't want another Anderson or Borchard situation where the guy gets completely wiped out in his first call-up and loses all confidence in himself as a player and poof, goodbye quality prospect.

The Sox want this guy to fill a spot next year, so they're playing it a bit close to the vest. Look at Flowers' callup last year for how this can go very wrong.

Yes, Flowers is garbage in AAA because he was a September callup last year :rolleyes:

Hansen is brutally tough. He has an ERA in June of 1.9. He gave up 13 earned runs in back to back outings in mid-may but in the other 12 starts he has only given up 18 earned runs.

I can see why Ozzie opted for Kotsay,whose bat resulted in a win the other nites vs the Nats in extra innings. He is coming around and a lefty.

I thought Dayan had nice swings vs the lefty the other day,but against Storen he looked overmatched.

Didn't Rios have both rbis on Friday?

russ99
06-22-2010, 02:10 PM
Here we go again. Can't wait for next year to hear all the excuses why Hudson, Flowers and possibly Jordan are all not getting consistent playing time.

Ozzie just has to go, this is just moronic. It isn't a factor of lineup, its a factor of Ozzie and his love for players who aren't any good but try hard. Kotsay, Erstad, Mackowiak et. all.

Incase Ozzie didn't notice, the offense hasn't been scoring much even during this winning streak. Maybe the Cubs would switch divisions with us? That way Ozzie could manage his NL team in the NL, and they could have a place to play Colvin

Do you have some real information that Ozzie has any "love of players who aren't good but try hard"?

Or do you just personally prefer the players you assume are being robbed of playing time?

I don't like Kotsay in the lineup either, but I don't think Oz is playing favorites at all. If anything he wants experience in the lineup and relys on matchups a bit too much.

The onus is then on Kenny to bring in an experienced lefthanded hitter to give Ozzie better choices. Had we signed Damon, Kotsay would be on the bench, just like last season...

DirtySox
06-22-2010, 02:10 PM
DLook at Flowers' callup last year for how this can go very wrong.

Are you really attributing Flowers struggles to the 19 AB's he received last year in garbage time?

You Ozzie apologists sure are reaching.

russ99
06-22-2010, 02:12 PM
Yes, Flowers is garbage in AAA because he was a September callup last year :rolleyes:


If you think there's no correlation between his awful callup numbers and the fact that A.J. is still here, you're kidding yourself. His numbers in AAA this year have little to do with it.

Had he shown what he did in the Arizona fall league both last September and this spring, he'd be on the club.

russ99
06-22-2010, 02:14 PM
Are you really attributing Flowers struggles to the 19 AB's he received last year in garbage time?

You Ozzie apologists sure are reaching.

As are you Ozzie haters, thinking he has an overflowing font of big-league quality talent to draw from to set his lineup everyday.

DirtySox
06-22-2010, 02:16 PM
As are you Ozzie haters, thinking he has an overflowing font of big-league quality talent to draw from to set his lineup everyday.

I couldn't care less if there is or isn't big-league quality talent available. Kotsay is terrible, and you don't call-up one of the system's top prospects in sit on the bench. Period.

mzh
06-22-2010, 02:16 PM
Didn't Rios have both rbis on Friday?
Yes he did. Kotsay scored the winning run.

october23sp
06-22-2010, 02:27 PM
Just win baby, get to over .500.

Coops4Aces
06-22-2010, 02:33 PM
If you think there's no correlation between his awful callup numbers and the fact that A.J. is still here, you're kidding yourself. His numbers in AAA this year have little to do with it.

Had he shown what he did in the Arizona fall league both last September and this spring, he'd be on the club.

Wait, I want to understand you correctly. You're saying that Flowers hitting poorly in 19 at-bats last year is the reason he isn't on the team this year?

Huisj
06-22-2010, 02:48 PM
Wait, I want to understand you correctly. You're saying that Flowers hitting poorly in 19 at-bats last year is the reason he isn't on the team this year?

And in Kotsay's last 19 at-bats, he's ripping the ball with a .263 BA! Proof that he really is on the rise.

october23sp
06-22-2010, 02:57 PM
I think we all need to take a deep breath here, the Sox have a chance to go over .500 since 1-0. We shouldn't be fighting over who is in the lineup. I know debates and stuff is what makes a message board but still, our Sox are back in it.

Rockabilly
06-22-2010, 02:57 PM
Who the **** cares that Dayan is not in the starting lineup. The Sox are facing one of the toughest right handers in baseball..

I am pretty sure that Dayan will be in the starting lineup several days this week

its one game. Some people on this board just like to bitch about anything so they could be heard

BringHomeDaBacon
06-22-2010, 02:58 PM
Apparently there isn't a damn thing Kotsay can do to get himself out of the lineup.

.204/.306/.358 for the year,
.174/.296/.304 over the last 28 days,
.185/.284/.369 at home

Unless Mario Mendoza himself comes out of retirement.... (looks up Mario Mendoza's career: .215/.245/.262) - oh wait, nevermind.

TDog
06-22-2010, 03:05 PM
And Dayan isn't playing why....? ...

Because Viciedo apparently came up to be the third baseman against left-handed pitching. He replaced the third baseman the White Sox were using against left handed pitching. This doesn't surprise me at all. I didn't expect him to DH against tough right-handers.

When I suggested in the Sunday game thread that Viciedo came up to be a third baseman and was not the DH, I was dismissed.

The fact is, Viciedo looked better against the southpaw starter in his first game than he did against the right-handed relief. The sample size was small, of course, and in fact the entire White Sox order looked better against the left-handed starter (probably because they had never seen him before).

If Viciedo eventually becomes the designated hitter, he will be eased into the role. It wouldn't surprise me if when Teahen comes back, the two alternate at DH, occasionally spelling Vizquel, who seems to have settled in as the regular third baseman. On the other hand, Viciedo could be sent down, although Lillibridge seems to be the last position player on the active roster.

Huisj
06-22-2010, 03:10 PM
Furthermore, in the last moments at the end of last season...

Pierzynski hit .095 in his last 22 plate appearances last year with no extra base hits!
Konerko hit .133 in his last 21 PA.
Getz hit .143 in his last 21 PA.
Ramirez hit .235 in his last 20 PA.
Thome hit .211 in his last 20 PA with the Sox.
Nix hit .093 in his last 24 PA.
Kotsay hit .222 in his last 21 PA.
Lillibridge hit .222 in his last 22 PA.


Beckham hit .263 in his last 21 PA.
Quentin hit .300 with 5 extra base hits in his last 22 PA.
Brian Anderson hit .278 in his last 20 PA before being traded.
Dye hit .313 with 2 HR in his last 21 PA.
Podsednik hit .350 and slugged .600 in his last 21 PA.
Rios hit .333 in his last 22 PA.

So by that logic, why'd we can BA, Dye, and Pods but keep AJ, Konerko, Ramirez, Nix, Kotsay, etc? If you can judge so much by 20 PA at the end of a season, why isn't Beckham hitting this year? Why did BA become a pitcher? Why does Quentin suck? Why doesn't Dye have a job?

Saying Flowers isn't here because of last September makes no sense. Saying Flowers isn't here because he is hitting .221 at Charlotte with a bazillion strikeouts does make sense.

october23sp
06-22-2010, 03:15 PM
I'm also excited, I just bought MLB.tv so I can watch the games when I work at night, which is funny because I can only afford it because I now work.

BRDSR
06-22-2010, 03:23 PM
I'm also excited, I just bought MLB.tv so I can watch the games when I work at night, which is funny because I can only afford it because I now work.

Do yourself a favor and download Boxee and sync it up with your mlb.tv account:

http://www.boxee.tv/

It's still not perfect, but mlb.tv's platform is a joke. Absolutely terrible. Boxee is far superior, especially if you want to watch in full screen.

kufram
06-22-2010, 03:28 PM
So some people rip Ozzie when the team is losing and rip him some more when the team is winning. Hmmmm... now what does that tell me?

Whoever goes out there to play I hope they hit the winning run in. If anything, kotsay is due for a big game! Hope, hope, double hope.

october23sp
06-22-2010, 03:42 PM
So some people rip Ozzie when the team is losing and rip him some more when the team is winning. Hmmmm... now what does that tell me?

Whoever goes out there to play I hope they hit the winning run in. If anything, kotsay is due for a big game! Hope, hope, double hope.

No pleasing some people, as long as we keep winning, I'm happy.

TheVulture
06-22-2010, 03:47 PM
There was nothing wrong with what Stone said.

So Dump was siding with Pinella?

I could be wrong, but I believe Dump was siding with satire.

LoveYourSuit
06-22-2010, 03:49 PM
So some people rip Ozzie when the team is losing and rip him some more when the team is winning. Hmmmm... now what does that tell me?

Whoever goes out there to play I hope they hit the winning run in. If anything, kotsay is due for a big game! Hope, hope, double hope.

Keep in mind that the team just made it to .500.

It is still mediocre.

People should be allowed to bitch and complain until we over-take the Twins. Every game is critical going forward.

HomeFish
06-22-2010, 03:49 PM
When I saw this thread was 4 pages long at 3:40 PM, I knew that something was wrong with the lineup. I am relieved that it's just a Kotsay/Viciedo issue and not something bigger (like, say, Lillibridge hitting leadoff or Rios/Konerko being off on the same night).

LoveYourSuit
06-22-2010, 03:53 PM
When I saw this thread was 4 pages long at 3:40 PM, I knew that something was wrong with the lineup. I am relieved that it's just a Kotsay/Viciedo issue and not something bigger (like, say, Lillibridge hitting leadoff or Rios/Konerko being off on the same night).


Wait, that just happened the other day.

And to Ozzie's luck, Jake Peavy pitched the game of his life and won 1-0. The same Peavy Ozzie wanted to DL.

mzh
06-22-2010, 03:55 PM
Wait, that just happened the other day.

And to Ozzie's luck, Jake Peavy pitched the game of his life and won 1-0. The same Peavy Ozzie wanted to DL.
20-20 hindsight. Are you really going to criticize Ozzie for wanting to protect his injury-prone ace?

Rdy2PlayBall
06-22-2010, 03:59 PM
Wow, put Viciedo in the minors please. This is a waste of his growth and I'm getting sick of waiting days to see the guy. I REALLY want to see him play, it's frustrating. Kotsay and Jones both suck at baseball, please let the kid play if his going to be in the majors.

GoGoCrede
06-22-2010, 04:00 PM
3 pages already for the lineup? Must be a doozy.

soltrain21
06-22-2010, 04:00 PM
When I saw this thread was 4 pages long at 3:40 PM, I knew that something was wrong with the lineup. I am relieved that it's just a Kotsay/Viciedo issue and not something bigger (like, say, Lillibridge hitting leadoff or Rios/Konerko being off on the same night).

4 pages?! Up your post per page ratio, son.

kobo
06-22-2010, 04:02 PM
Wait, that just happened the other day.

And to Ozzie's luck, Jake Peavy pitched the game of his life and won 1-0. The same Peavy Ozzie wanted to DL.
The game of his life?? I don't think so.

october23sp
06-22-2010, 04:04 PM
4 pages?! Up your post per page ratio, son.

That's what mine is at too, I think it's 15 posts per page for me.

Craig Grebeck
06-22-2010, 04:04 PM
For the millionth time, no one needs to take Kotsay's ABs away. He's done it himself.

TDog
06-22-2010, 04:04 PM
Keep in mind that the team just made it to .500.

It is still mediocre.

People should be allowed to bitch and complain until we over-take the Twins. Every game is critical going forward.

It is wrong to say that a .500 team is mediocre and that their chances of winning are reflected in their .500 record. Their record is deceptive because it does not reflect how well they are playing. A few times since baseball has gone to the wild card format, the best team in baseball didn't even have the best record.

The White Sox are 12-6 in June. That is not mediocre.

Both the 1969 Cubs and the 1977 White Sox won 90 games. Both were great teams in July. Both were bad teams as their seasons mercifully dwindled down toward their conclusions in September.

hawkjt
06-22-2010, 04:04 PM
I will give you he is a lefty, but he is not coming around. He is actually at the end of his career and is hitting .194 in June.


Kotsay is 6 for his last 23 abs...that is about .262...which for him is coming around when he was sub-.200 for much of the season.

Look, he aint great,but as a lefty he has a better chance vs a lite-out right-hander than a righthander rookie with 4 abs under his belt. Storen made Dayan look bad,so the sample size vs righties,while small, does not look good...specially against a kid who has a 1.9 era himself in June.

GoGoCrede
06-22-2010, 04:04 PM
That's what mine is at too, I think it's 15 posts per page for me.

20 posts per page is a lot better, IMO.

october23sp
06-22-2010, 04:06 PM
20 posts per page is a lot better, IMO.

How do I change it?

HomeFish
06-22-2010, 04:06 PM
15 is the default and it's never bothered me

Dibbs
06-22-2010, 04:06 PM
So some people rip Ozzie when the team is losing and rip him some more when the team is winning. Hmmmm... now what does that tell me?

Whoever goes out there to play I hope they hit the winning run in. If anything, kotsay is due for a big game! Hope, hope, double hope.

A bad decision is a bad decision whether the team is winning or losing. Fire Oz.

GoGoCrede
06-22-2010, 04:07 PM
How do I change it?

User CP > Edit Options > Scroll down and choose 20 posts per page.

soltrain21
06-22-2010, 04:07 PM
30 per page is the cat's pajamas.

october23sp
06-22-2010, 04:10 PM
30 per page is the cat's pajamas.

I just changed mine from 15 to 20 and I'm not a huge fan of that, I will change it back, I just don't like scrolling though.

Dibbs
06-22-2010, 04:12 PM
Kotsay is 6 for his last 23 abs...that is about .262...which for him is coming around when he was sub-.200 for much of the season.

Look, he aint great,but as a lefty he has a better chance vs a lite-out right-hander than a righthander rookie with 4 abs under his belt. Storen made Dayan look bad,so the sample size vs righties,while small, does not look good...specially against a kid who has a 1.9 era himself in June.

This is a fun game. I want to play too. Kotsay is also 6 for his last 33, which is a .182 clip (rounding up). He is also 1 for his last 11 for a .091 average.

Good thing Oz knows more than me about baseball. I mean, I would have made the mistake of having Thome take those at-bats.

Hitmen77
06-22-2010, 04:13 PM
4 pages?! Up your post per page ratio, son.

I didn't know this was adjustable on WSI.

russ99
06-22-2010, 04:14 PM
A bad decision is a bad decision whether the team is winning or losing. Fire Oz.

Ozzie trips going up the dugout stairs, fire him.

But seriously, we're arguing about the 9th hitter on the team. We should be happy they're playing well.

Go Sox, get us a win!

Dibbs
06-22-2010, 04:16 PM
Ozzie trips going up the dugout stairs, fire him.

But seriously, we're arguing about the 9th hitter on the team. We should be happy they're playing well.

Go Sox, get us a win!

Another good point to fire Oz. He has a 9th place hitter batting 6th.

Iwritecode
06-22-2010, 04:16 PM
I just changed mine from 15 to 20 and I'm not a huge fan of that, I will change it back, I just don't like scrolling though.

I've got mine set at 40. I'd rather scroll than have to click "next" every 15 posts.

soltrain21
06-22-2010, 04:17 PM
Ozzie trips going up the dugout stairs, fire him.

But seriously, we're arguing about the 9th hitter on the team. We should be happy they're playing well.

Go Sox, get us a win!

We aren't arguing about the 9th hitter. We are arguing about the 5th hitter (6th today) whose main job is to hit a baseball. That's it. He doesn't have to field, he doesn't have to do anything but hit. He consistently doesn't, but he gets marched out there anyway.

russ99
06-22-2010, 04:19 PM
Another good point to fire Oz. He has a 9th place hitter batting 6th.

Do you want Alexei and his free swinging or Beckham in his slump up in the middle of the order?

Sheesh. :rolleyes:

The guy managed us out of a death spiral and back to .500 and you want him fired for starting a guy 2 spots higher in the lineup than you'd prefer.

soltrain21
06-22-2010, 04:20 PM
Do you want Alexei and his free swinging or Beckham in his slump up in the middle of the order?

Sheesh. :rolleyes:

The guy managed us out of a death spiral and back to .500 and you want him fired for starting a guy 2 spots higher in the lineup than you'd prefer.

So it's not his fault when the pitching sucked and the hitters sucked, but he MANAGED us out of the slump when the pitching decided to show up for the last few weeks?

That ain't right.

russ99
06-22-2010, 04:21 PM
We aren't arguing about the 9th hitter. We are arguing about the 5th hitter (6th today) whose main job is to hit a baseball. That's it. He doesn't have to field, he doesn't have to do anything but hit. He consistently doesn't, but he gets marched out there anyway.

Good point, but who do we have that can get consistently can be marched in there in his place? Again, I don't like Kotsay being 9th on the team in ABs but what are the alternatives?

Imagine this place if Lillibridge batted 6th...

dickallen15
06-22-2010, 04:21 PM
Do you want Alexei and his free swinging or Beckham in his slump up in the middle of the order?

Sheesh. :rolleyes:

The guy managed us out of a death spiral and back to .500 and you want him fired for starting a guy 2 spots higher in the lineup than you'd prefer.

So he managed the Sox out of a death spiral? Did he manage the Sox into the death spiral they were in? They are .500. That's mediocre. I guess that means Ozzie is mediocre.

russ99
06-22-2010, 04:22 PM
So it's not his fault when the pitching sucked and the hitters sucked, but he MANAGED us out of the slump when the pitching decided to show up for the last few weeks?

That ain't right.

That's great. So he's to blame for all our problems and has taken no part in the limited success we've had. Classic definition of a scapegoat.

harwar
06-22-2010, 04:22 PM
who know's,maybe Kotsay will get a couple of hits .. i really want a win just to get over .500 .. these should be tough low-scoring games that will go a long way to showing how good this team really is .. i'm hoping for 2 out of 3 in both the braves and the cubs series .. the twins are playing the brewers now (good for the twins)and then the mets in NY next(maybe good for us) .. we have a chance to gain some ground then ..

soltrain21
06-22-2010, 04:23 PM
That's great. So he's to blame for all our problems and has taken no part in the limited success we've had. Classic definition of a scapegoat.

No. I remember you saying how he can't be blamed when the hitters weren't hitting and the pitchers weren't pitching. Now you are giving him credit for managing the team out of this death spiral when you could easily say he can't take credit for the pitchers starting to pitch.

He either takes credit for both or neither, so which is it?

Edit - Maybe I'm thinking of someone else, but the statement still stands. If you say he managed us "out of the slump" you have to say he managed us into it.

october23sp
06-22-2010, 04:27 PM
No. I remember you saying how he can't be blamed when the hitters weren't hitting and the pitchers weren't pitching. Now you are giving him credit for managing the team out of this death spiral when you could easily say he can't take credit for the pitchers starting to pitch.

He either takes credit for both or neither, so which is it?

I'll have to agree with you on this, when we sucked, I blamed him, not that we have turned it on I'll give him credit, I'm not exactly sure what he told the guys but I'll give him credit for both things.

Slappy
06-22-2010, 04:30 PM
This team needs to do something special tonight. They gotta show they can beat a good pitcher/team. Everyone has to hit, not just Rios and Pauly.

It's fine and good sweeping the Pirates/Nats, but if you can't beat the good teams, there's not much to get excited about.

TheOldRoman
06-22-2010, 04:31 PM
20-20 hindsight. Are you really going to criticize Ozzie for wanting to protect his injury-prone ace?You are correct, except for the injury prone part.

It is pathetic that some people, or at least one thusfar, has so much blind hatred for Ozzie that they would criticize him for almost putting a pitcher on the DL who was experiencing soreness. I am in no way defending this lineup, but his post was ridiculous.

hawkjt
06-22-2010, 04:36 PM
This is a fun game. I want to play too. Kotsay is also 6 for his last 33, which is a .182 clip (rounding up). He is also 1 for his last 11 for a .091 average.

Good thing Oz knows more than me about baseball. I mean, I would have made the mistake of having Thome take those at-bats.


Call it a hunch...Kotsay gets a big hit tonite...and Sox Win!

russ99
06-22-2010, 04:37 PM
No. I remember you saying how he can't be blamed when the hitters weren't hitting and the pitchers weren't pitching. Now you are giving him credit for managing the team out of this death spiral when you could easily say he can't take credit for the pitchers starting to pitch.

He either takes credit for both or neither, so which is it?

Sorry I don't see it that way. This isn't a cut and dried situation. Too many people assume Ozzie does nothing in the clubhouse or is incompetent, which is ridiculous.

For example, when we were playing poorly, he tried to juggle the lineup, rest guys for a few days, left pitchers longer in to get them going, rested Freddy and Mark, etc. He did what he could to get the players back on track.

Certainly the players are responsible for their performance, but the manager puts them in a position to succeed. At what point of this season has Ozzie ever put them in a position to fail?

But who's going to listen to any reason? Obviously some people here won't rest until Ozzie's fired.

Frater Perdurabo
06-22-2010, 04:39 PM
Ozzie doesn't have a single legitimate hitter to DH because he didn't want a single legitimate hitter to DH. He wanted flexibility to rotate players through the DH slot. This is OK on a team with many solid hitters. But the Sox don't have many solid hitters outside of Rios and Paulie, and Ozzie further compounds the problem by using some of his better defenders to DH most of the time, even as uses players with fielding deficiencies (Pierre's noodle arm, Quentin's poor range and instincts, Teahen's stone hands and poor range) in the field! If Ozzie likes the rotating DH plan so much, he should have Quentin and Pierre (and Teahen when he's healthy) getting more starts as the DH, with Kotsay, Vizquel and Jones playing the field more often.

Bottom line: Ozzie has a flawed roster, that he had a hand in creating, and he still misuses it.

soltrain21
06-22-2010, 04:40 PM
Sorry I don't see it that way. This isn't a cut and dried situation. Too many people assume Ozzie does nothing in the clubhouse or is incompetent, which is ridiculous.

For example, when we were playing poorly, he tried to juggle the lineup, rest guys for a few days, left pitchers longer in to get them going, rested Freddy and Mark, etc. He did what he could to get the players back on track.

Certainly the players are responsible for their performance, but the manager puts them in a position to succeed. At what point of this season has Ozzie ever put them in a position to fail?

But who's going to listen to any reason? Obviously some people here won't rest until Ozzie's fired.

Well, Mark Kotsay has been in plenty positions to fail this year. And has over and over again and its hurt the team.

I don't hate Ozzie. I just don't agree with his use of the DH situation and I didn't agree with it before the season began.

kufram
06-22-2010, 04:48 PM
A bad decision is a bad decision whether the team is winning or losing. Fire Oz.


Hmmm... you make my point for me.

LoveYourSuit
06-22-2010, 04:51 PM
The game of his life?? I don't think so.


It has to be in the top 5, how many games has Peavy thrown 3 hit CG shutouts on?

asindc
06-22-2010, 04:51 PM
This is a fun game. I want to play too. Kotsay is also 6 for his last 33, which is a .182 clip (rounding up). He is also 1 for his last 11 for a .091 average.

Good thing Oz knows more than me about baseball. I mean, I would have made the mistake of having Thome take those at-bats.

I agree. It is a good thing Ozzie knows more than you about baseball.

Johnny Mostil
06-22-2010, 04:56 PM
True, but Ozzie was also not primarily an offensive player, back in the day where one could actually plug defensive-minded players into lineups without getting reamed.

"back in the day where" rather than "when"? I never would have expected you to say that. That is all.

kufram
06-22-2010, 05:13 PM
This team needs to do something special tonight. They gotta show they can beat a good pitcher/team. Everyone has to hit, not just Rios and Pauly.

It's fine and good sweeping the Pirates/Nats, but if you can't beat the good teams, there's not much to get excited about.


No one wants a win more than I do tonight but, once again, it is one ball game. It decides nothing more than 1 game out of 162. I want 2 out of 3. I hope there is a big crowd and they give the team loud support from the start.

Nelfox02
06-22-2010, 05:13 PM
given the level of tension before a single pitch is thrown, this could get ugly in the post game thread if we see a loss tonight....

kufram
06-22-2010, 05:15 PM
Yeah, if they lose it will be daggers at dawn, but if they win there will be some people not posting.

voodoochile
06-22-2010, 05:15 PM
given the level of tension before a single pitch is thrown, this could get ugly in the post game thread if we see a loss tonight....

could get ugly?

It already is...

Coops4Aces
06-22-2010, 05:19 PM
could get ugly?

It already is...

It seems like there is an argument like this every year. It's frequently been about CF in the past but now it's about the DH. And it's always about the 9th man in the lineup.

soxlady8
06-22-2010, 05:27 PM
OMG !!
love the post about the odd things Ozzie must have done w animals --- cracking up still !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Craig Grebeck
06-22-2010, 05:40 PM
Sorry I don't see it that way. This isn't a cut and dried situation. Too many people assume Ozzie does nothing in the clubhouse or is incompetent, which is ridiculous.

For example, when we were playing poorly, he tried to juggle the lineup, rest guys for a few days, left pitchers longer in to get them going, rested Freddy and Mark, etc. He did what he could to get the players back on track.

Certainly the players are responsible for their performance, but the manager puts them in a position to succeed. At what point of this season has Ozzie ever put them in a position to fail?

But who's going to listen to any reason? Obviously some people here won't rest until Ozzie's fired.
He juggles the lineup when we're doing well. He always moves the lineup around.

But, of course, that was indefensible when a certain Jerry Manuel did it. Now that it's Ozzie, he's just keeping 'em fresh!

Tinker, tinker.

I agree. It is a good thing Ozzie knows more than you about baseball.
I don't know how a man who spent this much time in the game could be so incompetent.

thomas35forever
06-22-2010, 05:50 PM
Two weeks ago called. They want their pregame thread back.

Craig Grebeck
06-22-2010, 05:52 PM
Two weeks ago called. They want their pregame thread back.
Getting back to .500 doesn't make playing Mark Kotsay any less of an issue.

akingamongstmen
06-22-2010, 05:53 PM
John Danks pitches tonight and we are firing on all cylinders. This is a good thing. Everybody needs to take it down a few notches.

october23sp
06-22-2010, 05:54 PM
Two weeks ago called. They want their pregame thread back.

Nah, the fact that the Sox are back in it is reason for people to come here and get more nervous/excited/angry about games.

Tragg
06-22-2010, 05:54 PM
Kotsay over Viciedo?

Man, this Kotsay guy has to have pictures of Ozzie doing odd things with odd animals.

Maybe they were passed on by Wise (who got them from Machowiak).
Ozzie thinks he's a good hitter, just like the rest. He can't judge talent.

Craig Grebeck
06-22-2010, 05:54 PM
John Danks pitches tonight and we are firing on all cylinders. This is a good thing. Everybody needs to take it down a few notches.
Of course it's a good thing. Again, the presence of a good thing or good things doesn't mean Mark Kotsay should be at DH.

If anything, it becomes more intolerable.

october23sp
06-22-2010, 05:55 PM
Ozzie thinks he's a good hitter, just like the rest. He can't judge talent.

Didn't Ozzie want Pods over Lee in 05?

#1swisher
06-22-2010, 05:57 PM
Love the thread name change:thumbsup:

Craig Grebeck
06-22-2010, 05:57 PM
Didn't Ozzie want Pods over Lee in 05?
This is stupid.

thomas35forever
06-22-2010, 06:01 PM
The general sentiment of WSI right now::tantrum:

october23sp
06-22-2010, 06:02 PM
This is stupid.

Statement that disagrees with your statement = stupid.

balke
06-22-2010, 06:02 PM
Love the thread name change:thumbsup:

Ditto. I saw this thread with like 10 posts earlier and was like "What is going on?"

october23sp
06-22-2010, 06:03 PM
The general sentiment of WSI right now::tantrum:

My sentiment is excited, we can go above .500!!!

Craig Grebeck
06-22-2010, 06:10 PM
Statement that disagrees with your statement = stupid.
No, stripping the nuance from the Lee for Podsednik/Vizcaino trade is stupid.

october23sp
06-22-2010, 06:21 PM
No, stripping the nuance from the Lee for Podsednik/Vizcaino trade is stupid.

I was simply stating that Ozzie had a good enough eye for talent to realize that Pods for Lee was a good thing.

SCCWS
06-22-2010, 06:22 PM
Simple solution. Put Viciedo at 3rd, move Vizquel to 2nd and bench Beckham. Of course, maybe the Beckham collapse this year can be attributed to his playing right away and not being held back last year. If that is the cause, put Lilly at 2nd move Vizquel back to 3rd and let Viciedo and Beckham sit together on the bench w Walker who can give them some batting tips. If you think that might be counter-productive, they could sit w Cora and get defensive tips.

PhillipsBubba
06-22-2010, 06:35 PM
Mark Kotsay sucks, and Ozzie is an idiot. Every year it is someone getting ABs that shouldn't. Fire Oz.

C'mon...who would you rather have Mark Kotsay or Adam Dunn???

JB98
06-22-2010, 07:01 PM
Geez, you would think the team is on a six-game skid after reading this thread....

october23sp
06-22-2010, 07:05 PM
Geez, you would think the team is on a six-game skid after reading this thread....

Like I said earlier, the team being back in it is just getting people more excited, which makes them nervous, which makes them angry.

Rdy2PlayBall
06-22-2010, 07:07 PM
Simple solution. Put Viciedo at 3rd, move Vizquel to 2nd and bench Beckham. Of course, maybe the Beckham collapse this year can be attributed to his playing right away and not being held back last year. If that is the cause, put Lilly at 2nd move Vizquel back to 3rd and let Viciedo and Beckham sit together on the bench w Walker who can give them some batting tips. If you think that might be counter-productive, they could sit w Cora and get defensive tips.Why would they sit on the bench to get tips when they can be in the minors and play, along with get tips from people who are payed to teach and make players better... rather than ones to help tweek already MLB ready players? If they are up here looking to get better, I doubt they will without playing time.

DumpJerry
06-22-2010, 07:30 PM
I think I have a slight case of OCD because it is bugging the hell out of me that the gamethread is still in the Clubhouse.
Go here (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=2527802#post2527802).

Mohoney
06-22-2010, 07:58 PM
Good point, but who do we have that can get consistently can be marched in there in his place?

Personally, I want Viciedo to be the one marched out there, and if he's not going to play, then why not just keep Nix and keep Viciedo in AAA to get everyday ABs.

If Nix wastes away on the bench from a lack of playing time, it's not hurting you at all. If Viciedo does the same thing, it IS hurting you.

WhiteSox5187
06-22-2010, 08:00 PM
I was simply stating that Ozzie had a good enough eye for talent to realize that Pods for Lee was a good thing.

I don't know how much credit Ozzie deserves for any trade the Sox made. Ozzie said he wanted a team with a more balanced approach offensively and better defense. Lee didn't fit in the Sox plans and Pods provided a chance for a more balanced offense and somewhat better defense in left.

Mohoney
06-22-2010, 08:01 PM
Simple solution. Put Viciedo at 3rd, move Vizquel to 2nd and bench Beckham. Of course, maybe the Beckham collapse this year can be attributed to his playing right away and not being held back last year. If that is the cause, put Lilly at 2nd move Vizquel back to 3rd and let Viciedo and Beckham sit together on the bench w Walker who can give them some batting tips. If you think that might be counter-productive, they could sit w Cora and get defensive tips.

So Brent Lillibridge becomes the starting 2B?:(:

thomas35forever
06-22-2010, 08:02 PM
Love the new title.

mzh
06-22-2010, 10:27 PM
Love the new title.
LOL I feel like I've been unfairly pinned for starting this monster :tongue:

voodoochile
06-22-2010, 10:35 PM
LOL I feel like I've been unfairly pinned for starting this monster :tongue:


Well by the same token you also started the game thread with the exact same post and it's MUCH more positive save for some blips in the first 1.5 innings and again in the ninth...