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View Full Version : Baseball Prospectus on Manuel/Foulke


ma-gaga
06-21-2002, 08:51 AM
Here's the link (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/20020620daily.shtml) They take on the handling of Foulke, so I humbly submit the following poll:

Spiff
06-21-2002, 09:29 AM
I agree with them and I still think he should close.

What in the world is Jerry Manuel doing?

At least someone outside of here is noticing also.

TheBigHurt
06-21-2002, 09:50 AM
i agree a lot about that but just for now leave him pitch the 7th or 8th. Have him pitch 3 games or so in that role and if he pitches well give him another chance.

Moses_Scurry
06-21-2002, 09:56 AM
Let him close. Only let him close. Only let him close in the 9th!! Don't bring him in for a tie game or a 2 inning appearance EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't care if a starter has to come in. I don't care if a reliever who has done alot of work and may be tired has to come in.

Foulke is a closer and the best closer on the team. Use him ONLY as a closer!

voodoochile
06-21-2002, 10:03 AM
Currently Foulke's confidence looks shot, so he should be given some innings just to find his stuff, but shouldn't be put in as a closer until he finds whatever it is he is lacking at present. Then give him a shot at closing later when he has his control back and has had several good outings from middle-relief/setup-man duties.

Definitely want him to get another shot at closing, but right now, he is NOT the answer and it is unfair to the team and to Keith to ask him to do it...

Clarkdog
06-21-2002, 11:20 AM
I said it before, and I'll say it again.....

If Foulke is the closer, he should close games.

If Foulke is the setup man, he should hold games.

Pitching the 8th, and then having him pitch the 9th, is having him both hold and save. Foulke has never, ever succeded with any frequency in that type of situation. That has to be in your little binder somewhere.

Foulke should also never attempt to close a tie game, because the game isn't in a position to close.

Closers have a mentality and a mindset, take them out of it and you are bound to affect thier performance.

Iwritecode
06-21-2002, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Currently Foulke's confidence looks shot, so he should be given some innings just to find his stuff, but shouldn't be put in as a closer until he finds whatever it is he is lacking at present. Then give him a shot at closing later when he has his control back and has had several good outings from middle-relief/setup-man duties.

Definitely want him to get another shot at closing, but right now, he is NOT the answer and it is unfair to the team and to Keith to ask him to do it...

I don't know about his confidence but he doesn't appear to have good command of his changeup for some reason. At least the few times that I've seen him. Although he still seems to be effective as long as he doesn't have to pitch more than 2 innings and the game is not tied...

Tragg
06-21-2002, 04:13 PM
They make some good points. I hadn't realized that philly did so little damage against him in the 9th. Of course, pitching biddle 4 times in 5 days and giving him one of the first big save (with runners on) opportunities of his career didn't help that situation.

HawkDJ
06-21-2002, 05:32 PM
If there was an other I would choose that. Right now I think we should just try to pitch him in blowouts, whether it be us up or us down, so that he can at least get some guys out and maybe build his confidence. If there isn't a blowout he can be a middle reliever, but not a set up or closer yet. But we can't give up on a guy that saved 40 some games for us in 2001. Just let him build back up.

kevingrt
06-21-2002, 05:32 PM
He should mop-up right now until he knows and we know he has his stuff...

Foulke You
06-21-2002, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by kevingrt
He should mop-up right now until he knows and we know he has his stuff...

But if he is only in mop up duty he'll never have enough work to get his good stuff back. He's flashed some of the old Foulke brilliance this year in Boston and the Sunday game against the Cubs. I say be patient. It'll come back for him. Right now, I have to agree with Manuel in Foulke getting work in as a long relief/setup man. He was barely getting work because we didn't have many save situations.

mrwag
06-22-2002, 01:09 PM
I remember an interview with Jeff Torborg from 1990. Thigpen came on in the ninth against Texas and was taken deep to lose the game. The very next night, exact same circumstance and hitters, Thiggy came out and closed the deal. Torborg showed confidence in him and allowed Thigpen to do his job. What would Manuel have done???