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LITTLE NELL
06-16-2010, 08:07 AM
Will we ever see the day that the sheep stop flocking into the Uriinal.
I know it rained up there yesterday but only 34,000 showed up at Wrigley which says the advanced sales was down for the game, sort of unheard of for a June game there.
There has to be a point where these idiots come to their senses and stop supporting the loveable losers.
Don't laugh, it can happen. Look at the Indians, how many straight sellouts did they have and now they are 29th in MLB attendance averaging 16,000 a game and they don't have another ballclub in town like Chicago.

tebman
06-16-2010, 09:13 AM
These things go in cycles. I know that before the Cubs made it to the playoffs in 1984 there wasn't much enthusiasm about the team or the ballpark. The neighborhood was tired and seedy and the team was consistently bad.

After '84 the Tribune got lucky with the coincidence of an improved team, cable and satellite TV penetration for WGN-TV, and the gradual gentrification of the neighborhood. It was after those years that it became less about baseball and more about the "experience."

The sands are always shifting, so who knows? Maybe the investment in recent years in the Near West Side combined with the dramatically improved fortunes of the Blackhawks will mean that the United Center will become the new tourist attraction. Maybe the explosive growth of the college town that now makes up the South Loop, the improvements in Bridgeport, and the expansion of Chinatown will mean a new trendy focus on the South Side.

Ricketts is still at the helm of a money machine, but the bigger they get the more care they require. Demographics, economics, and changing tastes are out of his control and he's going to need a longer vision and some luck to stay ahead of that.

kittle42
06-16-2010, 09:14 AM
Will we ever see the day that the sheep stop flocking into the Uriinal.
I know it rained up there yesterday but only 34,000 showed up at Wrigley which says the advanced sales was down for the game, sort of unheard of for a June game there.
There has to be a point where these idiots come to their senses and stop supporting the loveable losers.
Don't laugh, it can happen. Look at the Indians, how many straight sellouts did they have and now they are 29th in MLB attendance averaging 16,000 a game and they don't have another ballclub in town like Chicago.

Not sure the Indians are a good comparator. They opened a new park and were one of the best teams in baseball for what seemed like an eternity. When they went downhill, so did attendance.

The Cubs are an enigma in that sense. Perhaps if the South Loop ever expands all the way to the Cell, Wrigleyville will become less of a special attraction.

jdm2662
06-16-2010, 09:35 AM
Not sure the Indians are a good comparator. They opened a new park and were one of the best teams in baseball for what seemed like an eternity. When they went downhill, so did attendance.

The Cubs are an enigma in that sense. Perhaps if the South Loop ever expands all the way to the Cell, Wrigleyville will become less of a special attraction.

Also remember around the same time, they lost the Browns. Don't think for a minute that didn't play a part.

Malgar 12
06-16-2010, 09:54 AM
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~db=all~content=a901939856

should be available for free in any decent research library. I know the author, he's real sharp, and a snappy dresser to boot. :D:

Railsplitter
06-16-2010, 10:10 AM
Weak economy has fewer cable made fans from other states making The Urinal a tourist destination.

SOXPHILE
06-16-2010, 10:26 AM
These things go in cycles. I know that before the Cubs made it to the playoffs in 1984 there wasn't much enthusiasm about the team or the ballpark. The neighborhood was tired and seedy and the team was consistently bad.

After '84 the Tribune got lucky with the coincidence of an improved team, cable and satellite TV penetration for WGN-TV, and the gradual gentrification of the neighborhood. It was after those years that it became less about baseball and more about the "experience."

The sands are always shifting, so who knows? Maybe the investment in recent years in the Near West Side combined with the dramatically improved fortunes of the Blackhawks will mean that the United Center will become the new tourist attraction. Maybe the explosive growth of the college town that now makes up the South Loop, the improvements in Bridgeport, and the expansion of Chinatown will mean a new trendy focus on the South Side.

Ricketts is still at the helm of a money machine, but the bigger they get the more care they require. Demographics, economics, and changing tastes are out of his control and he's going to need a longer vision and some luck to stay ahead of that.

This. I've always said 1984 was the key. Looking back, it was like night and day. I'm used to it now, but when it happened, I couldn't believe the difference in the attendance and general all around atmosphere in and around that park from just 1983, to 1984. I remember seeing games on TV where the park was half full, to watch a sub .500 team. I remember going to games and THE UPPER DECK WAS CLOSED due to lack of attendance.

Pre-1984, it was a park where a team playing mostly bad baseball resided, who's games were most often not even close to being sold out. The fans that were there seemed to actually be there for the game, were genuine Cubs fans.

Since 1984, for more than 25 years now, it's been Marte Gras North, who's centerpiece happens to be a ballpark where a team that plays mostly bad baseball resides, 1989, 1998, 2003, 2007 and 2008 being exceptions.

cws05champ
06-16-2010, 10:29 AM
If Wrigley were to crumble to the ground, you would have your answer. Would they show up like they do at the Cell if the Cubs had to play there? My guess would be no.

ilsox7
06-16-2010, 10:30 AM
Cleveland is a BAD comparison. No one lives downtown.

The Cubs play in a popular area with lots of nightlife immediately surrounding the park. As long as that stays constant, throw in the tourist crowd, and they will draw at least decent crowds, if not capacity.

DumpJerry
06-16-2010, 10:51 AM
Attendance at the Urinal is down an average of 1,300 per game this season.

Most of my friends who are Cub fans gave them one last chance last season. I have a feeling that most of the fanbase felt the same way.

LongLiveFisk
06-16-2010, 11:03 AM
I have heard that a good portion of sales are made to tourists. I wonder if that is true and how many more butts are in the stands due to tourists.

It might help to explain why a lot of people there don't pay attention to the game.

Hitmen77
06-16-2010, 11:05 AM
You don't even have to go all the way back to 1984. In 2002, the Cubs average attendance was 34,000. Still good, but not "sold out every game" - and that was only 8 years ago. On the day that Kerry Wood struck out 20 in May 1998, the attendance at Wrigley was 15,000.

They got a big attendance boost in 1998 when Cubs legend Sosa joined fellow clean slugger McGuire in the HR race. From then until 2004, Sosa was a huge draw with many people more interested in seeing a Sosa HR than a Cubs win. The latest boost in Cubbie hype came in 2003 when they had their magical run. That's when Wrigley became almost always sold out - and so was born the myth that Wrigley has always been sold out forever.

Since 2003 they've had mostly successful and/or well-hyped seasons to keep bringing in the sheep. In 2004, the Tribune had an official count down an inevitable Cubs pennant. In 2005, they were still in denial that the Sox were actually for real. In 2006, they sold fans on the idea that it must be "their turn" after Boston and the White Sox won titles.....but as they sputtered to a 96 loss finish that year, Cubs ownership was alarmed to see empty seats appearing at Cubs games. So, after the 2006 season ended, they threw blank checks at people like Soriano and Ted Lilly to buy themselves back into contention. 2007 and 2008 saw back to back division titles for them and both seasons featured hype and delusion that the Cubs were pennant bound ("It's Gonna Happen!":rolleyes:). Last year, they were still coming off the back to back division titles and still clinging to the idea that they owned the weak NL Central. So, this is the first year in a long time that they are fully facing the reality of being a lousy team out of contention and going nowhere.

Don't get me wrong, the Cubs have a huge fan base and Wrigley is a tourist attraction - so they will always draw well. But they're not guaranteed to have sellouts forever. I also think that, in this day and age of the Cubs having less games on WGN and more people out of market having access to baseball games other on WGN (Extra Innings, MLB Network), it's not as much a guarantee that "the rest of the country" will be full of cable-bred Cubs fans anymore.

cws05champ
06-16-2010, 11:28 AM
I have heard that a good portion of sales are made to tourists. I wonder if that is true and how many more butts are in the stands due to tourists.

It might help to explain why a lot of people there don't pay attention to the game.
Last time I went there (last year for Cubs/Sox), I just asked the people directly around my seating area where they were from. 7 out of 10 were from other cities, visiting Chicago. I wasn't shocked there were tourists but so many. I know it's a small sample size so you can't extrapolate that across the stadium....but just take a look at all the buses that line up and down the street after the games and you'll see how many people are bused in.

But I don't think the fact that there are a lot of tourists are why they don't pay attention to the game :tongue:

Moses_Scurry
06-16-2010, 11:35 AM
I think the fact that they are drawing lower than some years when they had last place teams suggests that they are very close to pricing themselves out of the market. If they raise the prices much more without putting a good team on the field, the attendance will fall rapidly.

g0g0
06-16-2010, 11:52 AM
Attendance at the Urinal is down an average of 1,300 per game this season.

Most of my friends who are Cub fans gave them one last chance last season. I have a feeling that most of the fanbase felt the same way.

I'm one of those Cubs fans who needed "a break.". That's why I started watching the Sox last year. I've enjoyed watching the Sox and have never hated them as I started out as a Sox fan (one of those never could see them on TV and started watching Cubs on WGN). But it's hard to put away all those years of being a loyal fan. I've gone back to watching the Cubs this year even though they still suck. I guess I should re-register with a new name when my membership is up lol. :redface:

kittle42
06-16-2010, 01:49 PM
I'll say this much. I know several friends who have been unable to sell season tix they couldn't use at face.

Just like me and the Sox!

samurai_sox
06-16-2010, 08:33 PM
If you want an idea of how empty the upper deck was at Wrigley in the 80's check out the beginning of this clip of the Wrigley scene from Ferris Buellre's Day Off,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZyTLYl6lJw

LITTLE NELL
06-16-2010, 08:53 PM
If you want an idea of how empty the upper deck was at Wrigley in the 80's check out the beginning of this clip of the Wrigley scene from Ferris Buellre's Day Off,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZyTLYl6lJw

If only you could see how empty it was from the early 50s thru 1968. Upper deck was open only on Sundays.
I worked both parks as a vendor in 1962 selling Coke or peanuts and was lucky if I made $5.00 at Wrigley while at Comiskey I made 15 to 20 dollars.
Cokes were 25 cents and peanuts were 15 cents. We made 20% commission, so I made 5 cents for every Coke and 3 cents for every bag of peanuts.

guillensdisciple
06-16-2010, 09:57 PM
I'm one of those Cubs fans who needed "a break.". That's why I started watching the Sox last year. I've enjoyed watching the Sox and have never hated them as I started out as a Sox fan (one of those never could see them on TV and started watching Cubs on WGN). But it's hard to put away all those years of being a loyal fan. I've gone back to watching the Cubs this year even though they still suck. I guess I should re-register with a new name when my membership is up lol. :redface:


Damn gogo, you're a Cubs fan?

Wow, that's rough. Ehh, at least you see it both ways, I hope your head doesn't explode watching both :D

DSpivack
06-16-2010, 10:04 PM
Bad economy plus bad team; either of those improve, it'll be back to normal.

g0g0
06-17-2010, 08:47 AM
Damn gogo, you're a Cubs fan?

Wow, that's rough. Ehh, at least you see it both ways, I hope your head doesn't explode watching both :D

I know right? I haven't been watching the Sox this year since I've gone back but still like to follow them on here. I have to say this is still the best damn baseball board out there! :smile:

Hitmen77
06-17-2010, 08:55 AM
I'm one of those Cubs fans who needed "a break.". That's why I started watching the Sox last year. I've enjoyed watching the Sox and have never hated them as I started out as a Sox fan (one of those never could see them on TV and started watching Cubs on WGN). But it's hard to put away all those years of being a loyal fan. I've gone back to watching the Cubs this year even though they still suck. I guess I should re-register with a new name when my membership is up lol. :redface:

I can only imagine how many fans the Sox lost over a 25-30 year period starting in 1968 because of this.

I remember in 1982 when they put most of their games on SportsVision (with the rest on WFLD) - which was an over-the-air pay TV station that cost about $15/month. Ugh.

g0g0
06-17-2010, 12:33 PM
I remember in 1982 when they put most of their games on SportsVision (with the rest on WFLD) - which was an over-the-air pay TV station that cost about $15/month. Ugh.

Wow, $15 a month? That must have been expensive back then!

doogiec
06-17-2010, 12:54 PM
Ricketts was quoted in the paper as telling the Chicago city council (during the Toyota sign debate) that the Cubs sell over 1 million tickets per year to people from out of state. When the Tribune owned the Cubs, they never admitted that to my knowledge.

Also, the Cubs have always been more than willing to sell lots of tickets to scalpers. It was a good deal for the scalpers. They were able to mark them up sigificantly, to the point that they only needed to sell one out of every three tickets they bought to break even. So it was virtually risk free for them, and the Cubs could always talk about how high the demand was for tickets even if the tickets never made it into the hands of actual fans during down years, causing the sheep to line up in February.

But the Cubs have jacked up ticket prices despite the fact that people are not willing to pay more for them, which takes the margin away from the scalpers. So the scalpers aren't willing to take that risk as much as they were in the past, since they now need to actually sell most of the tickets to break even. And the tourists, many of whom used to buy from scalpers, aren't around as much due to the economy.

IMO, this has nothing to do with the quality of the Cubs on the field. It is a combination of a difficult economy, and a decision by the Cubs to keep more of the money that used to go to the scalpers.

PatK
06-17-2010, 01:55 PM
They got a big attendance boost in 1998 when Cubs legend Sosa joined fellow clean slugger McGuire in the HR race. From then until 2004, Sosa was a huge draw with many people more interested in seeing a Sosa HR than a Cubs win.

That's true.

When I moved into Lakeview in 1995, you could still walk up to the gate 5 minutes before a game, even on holiday weekends, and get good seats.

Even in 1998 you could for the most part. After that year, forget about it.

And saying people were more interested in a Sammy home run than a Cubs win isn't an exaggeration- in 1999 they had their worst season in 20 years, yet set an attendance record.

I'd be going home from work and I'd hear people saying stuff like "They lost, but at least Sammy hit one".

Dibbs
06-17-2010, 02:34 PM
I don't ever see their attendance dropping too much, unless the neighborhood changes one day. There are way too many people that come from other areas of the country or find it fashionable to be "Cub fans". Just like everyone thinks they like the Blackhawks now. Many fans going to Cubs games really don't care if they win or lose, or even know more than one or two players on the team.

Certainly some of their real fans will go to less games, just as I am doing with the Sox this year.

PatK
06-17-2010, 02:40 PM
Just a question, how do they measure attendance?

Do they go by tickets sold, or how many go through the turnstiles?

I've heard different responses and that it can vary from team to team or league to league.

Hitmen77
06-17-2010, 02:44 PM
Wow, $15 a month? That must have been expensive back then!

This was before Chicago was wired for cable. I believe it was $15/month for an over-the-air pay station (which was only on the air part time, by the way) and $21/month if you got SportsVision and On-TV (movie channel). Yes, that was a lot of money.

I don't know when SportsVision when to basic cable. Maybe the late 80s.

Johnny Mostil
06-17-2010, 03:28 PM
Just a question, how do they measure attendance?

Do they go by tickets sold, or how many go through the turnstiles?

I've heard different responses and that it can vary from team to team or league to league.

"Attendance" in both leagues since the mid-1990s has been tickets sold. Before that, the NL used turnstile count. I don't know when the AL last used turnstile count.

ewokpelts
06-17-2010, 03:28 PM
Just a question, how do they measure attendance?

Do they go by tickets sold, or how many go through the turnstiles?

I've heard different responses and that it can vary from team to team or league to league.i've been told the AL still does tickets SOLD, and nl is still tickets ISSUED.

Johnny Mostil
06-17-2010, 04:54 PM
i've been told the AL still does tickets SOLD, and nl is still tickets ISSUED.

Interesting distinction that I had not known. I'd like to see tickets sold and turnstile counts reported.

downstairs
06-17-2010, 05:19 PM
i've been told the AL still does tickets SOLD, and nl is still tickets ISSUED.

This was the case, but I thought since MLB combined the offices of the AL and NL, the one and only difference anywhere between the two was the DH rule.

tony1972
06-17-2010, 10:58 PM
This. I've always said 1984 was the key. Looking back, it was like night and day. I'm used to it now, but when it happened, I couldn't believe the difference in the attendance and general all around atmosphere in and around that park from just 1983, to 1984. I remember seeing games on TV where the park was half full, to watch a sub .500 team. I remember going to games and THE UPPER DECK WAS CLOSED due to lack of attendance.

Pre-1984, it was a park where a team playing mostly bad baseball resided, who's games were most often not even close to being sold out. The fans that were there seemed to actually be there for the game, were genuine Cubs fans.


Since 1984, for more than 25 years now, it's been Marte Gras North, who's centerpiece happens to be a ballpark where a team that plays mostly bad baseball resides, 1989, 1998, 2003, 2007 and 2008 being exceptions.

Agreed and I think 2005 was the Sox version of 1984. Before 2005 (even in good seasons) we couldn't draw 2 million any years from 1994 to 2004. In 2000..with an 8 game lead..we had several crowds under 20,000. Pre-2005 the image was..the ballpark stunk..it wasn't fun going to the games..the neighborhood was dangerous, etc.

Then 2005 came and went (we know what happened)...the Sox won a new batch of young fans. People that had never been to a Sox game or hadn't been for years...went to Sox games in 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2009. Attendance is dropping..but it will most likely never reach the levels again pre 2005. Pre 2005 a winning season meant 1.8 million. Now a losing season is still 2 million plus. It was a turning point year. I think the Sox will consistently draw ok to well even in not so great seasons. This wasn't the case pre 2005. A lot of people found out after 2005 how much fun it could be to go to a Sox game (tailgating..the park is nice, etc). A lot of the stereotypes were blown to pieces in 2005. 10 years fron now..we'll look at that year as a turning point ...much like 1984 was for the Cubs..

LITTLE NELL
06-18-2010, 06:26 AM
Agreed and I think 2005 was the Sox version of 1984. Before 2005 (even in good seasons) we couldn't draw 2 million any years from 1994 to 2004. In 2000..with an 8 game lead..we had several crowds under 20,000. Pre-2005 the image was..the ballpark stunk..it wasn't fun going to the games..the neighborhood was dangerous, etc.

Then 2005 came and went (we know what happened)...the Sox won a new batch of young fans. People that had never been to a Sox game or hadn't been for years...went to Sox games in 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2009. Attendance is dropping..but it will most likely never reach the levels again pre 2005. Pre 2005 a winning season meant 1.8 million. Now a losing season is still 2 million plus. It was a turning point year. I think the Sox will consistently draw ok to well even in not so great seasons. This wasn't the case pre 2005. A lot of people found out after 2005 how much fun it could be to go to a Sox game (tailgating..the park is nice, etc). A lot of the stereotypes were blown to pieces in 2005. 10 years fron now..we'll look at that year as a turning point ...much like 1984 was for the Cubs..

We might not draw 2,000,000 this year, Sox average crowd is 23,202 which pans out to 1,879,362.

g0g0
06-18-2010, 09:07 AM
A lot of people found out after 2005 how much fun it could be to go to a Sox game (tailgating..the park is nice, etc). A lot of the stereotypes were blown to pieces in 2005. 10 years fron now..we'll look at that year as a turning point ...much like 1984 was for the Cubs..

I like that it's clean, you get good sight lines and the crowd is into it. In 2007 I especially loved the July 4th celebration with the huge flag ceremony.

tony1972
06-18-2010, 11:19 AM
We might not draw 2,000,000 this year, Sox average crowd is 23,202 which pans out to 1,879,362.


They will...we've played lousy baseball earlier and April and May attendance is always low. The Sox are playing better and we have series against the Cubs, Red Sox and Yankees coming up.

That average will go up a lot by August.

kittle42
06-18-2010, 11:45 AM
They will...we've played lousy baseball earlier and April and May attendance is always low. The Sox are playing better and we have series against the Cubs, Red Sox and Yankees coming up.

That average will go up a lot by August.

And then back down by October.

cws05champ
07-07-2010, 11:18 AM
I thought I'd revive this thread with this video clip of why fans keep going to Wrigley:

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=5352032

g0g0
07-07-2010, 12:30 PM
I thought I'd revive this thread with this video clip of why fans keep going to Wrigley:

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=5352032

Videos like that just exacerbate the negative reputation of Wrigley. I've seen people point to the Gamboa incident as proof the WS are thugs. Both just aren't true. Sure there are a ton of party fans that go there, but many fans want that team to succeed. I don't hold out for any hope this year or next though...:(:

russ99
07-07-2010, 12:32 PM
They will...we've played lousy baseball earlier and April and May attendance is always low. The Sox are playing better and we have series against the Cubs, Red Sox and Yankees coming up.

That average will go up a lot by August.

Yup. We'll have no problems hitting 2,000,000 as long as the team's contending through July/August.

TomBradley72
07-07-2010, 01:42 PM
I can only imagine how many fans the Sox lost over a 25-30 year period starting in 1968 because of this.



I was becoming a baseball fan just at this happened.

The Cubs were everywhere, from a little kids' perspective, the White Sox were from another planet...some stuff in the sports section of the paper or highlights on the 10:00 news...that was about it.

In 1971, I chose the young, hungry White Sox with the energetic manager (Tanner), the wild announcer (Caray), and the exploding scoreboard and night games over the complacent, sleepy, team on the northside. Even then, I remember thinking the White Sox seem to care more about winning then the Cubs with Jack Brickhouse, Wrigley Field, etc. It was hard to find them on the radio...the picture on our black & white TV with the round UHF (Channel 32) antenna was almost always very snowy....but I found them!

DumpJerry
07-07-2010, 01:48 PM
I thought I'd revive this thread with this video clip of why fans keep going to Wrigley:

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=5352032
Sarah Spain is one of my Facebook "friends." She certainly loves her Cubbies. The pained looks on the faces as the fans assess this season is priceless.

TommyJohn
07-07-2010, 10:35 PM
Sarah Spain is one of my Facebook "friends." She certainly loves her Cubbies. The pained looks on the faces as the fans assess this season is priceless.


Sarah Spain? Oh, brother. I was in an acting class with her in 2002. She was a goofball back then, too.

cws05champ
07-07-2010, 10:50 PM
Videos like that just exacerbate the negative reputation of Wrigley. I've seen people point to the Gamboa incident as proof the WS are thugs. Both just aren't true. Sure there are a ton of party fans that go there, but many fans want that team to succeed. I don't hold out for any hope this year or next though...:(:

I think comparing the Gamboa incident and the long standing reputation that people go to Wrigley for the party are two completely different things. As you said there ARE a lot of party fans that go there...more than any normal team has. Sure they have die hard fans too. I have a brother and many friends that are just that. But the asshat party fans seem to out number and shout louder than the normal fans and thus gives the Cubs fans the rep. Doesn't matter if they are real fans or not...they wear a Cub shirt and a stupid Japanese hat, so one can only assume they are cub fans. Sorry you have to get lumped in with these people, but since the party goers and the tourists go so much the Cubs have more resources in which to pull from.

Hitmen77
07-08-2010, 12:00 AM
I think comparing the Gamboa incident and the long standing reputation that people go to Wrigley for the party are two completely different things.....

I'd say another big difference is that this video was presumably made by Cubs fans. It's not like this was a clip by rival fans trying to promote a negative Cubs stereotype.

I know die-hard Cub fans who don't like the party crowd at Wrigley either. But I figure you can't have it both ways - you can't complain about that crowd and then boast about better attendance.

g0g0
07-08-2010, 09:10 AM
I think comparing the Gamboa incident and the long standing reputation that people go to Wrigley for the party are two completely different things. As you said there ARE a lot of party fans that go there...more than any normal team has. Sure they have die hard fans too. I have a brother and many friends that are just that. But the asshat party fans seem to out number and shout louder than the normal fans and thus gives the Cubs fans the rep. Doesn't matter if they are real fans or not...they wear a Cub shirt and a stupid Japanese hat, so one can only assume they are cub fans. Sorry you have to get lumped in with these people, but since the party goers and the tourists go so much the Cubs have more resources in which to pull from.

Maybe they need to cut everyone off after the 3rd inning...ya right! :tongue:

I'd say another big difference is that this video was presumably made by Cubs fans. It's not like this was a clip by rival fans trying to promote a negative Cubs stereotype.

I know die-hard Cub fans who don't like the party crowd at Wrigley either. But I figure you can't have it both ways - you can't complain about that crowd and then boast about better attendance.

I have never really paid attention to attendance. All that does is bring in money for them. I like to have a good atmosphere (hence why I've gone more to the Cell than Wrigley in the past years), but the stadium could be half empty for all I care. Just put a winning product on the field!

Red Barchetta
07-08-2010, 10:35 AM
This. I've always said 1984 was the key. Looking back, it was like night and day. I'm used to it now, but when it happened, I couldn't believe the difference in the attendance and general all around atmosphere in and around that park from just 1983, to 1984. I remember seeing games on TV where the park was half full, to watch a sub .500 team. I remember going to games and THE UPPER DECK WAS CLOSED due to lack of attendance.

Pre-1984, it was a park where a team playing mostly bad baseball resided, who's games were most often not even close to being sold out. The fans that were there seemed to actually be there for the game, were genuine Cubs fans.

Since 1984, for more than 25 years now, it's been Marte Gras North, who's centerpiece happens to be a ballpark where a team that plays mostly bad baseball resides, 1989, 1998, 2003, 2007 and 2008 being exceptions.

I agree that was the key year for the Tribune owned Cubs. I remember seeing pictures in the paper during the playoffs, and one particular, with Bob Dernier chasing down a flyball in center field and seeing "fans" in the bleachers wearing ties.

The Tribune did a lot of things "right" in marketing a baseball experience. I tip my hat to them from a business marketing perspective.

FielderJones
07-08-2010, 11:27 AM
I have never really paid attention to attendance.

What kind of Cubs fan are you?! You're supposed to hold your attendance trophy high above your head when conversing with Sox fans.

white sox bill
07-08-2010, 11:57 AM
Maybe they need to cut everyone off after the 3rd inning...ya right! :tongue:



I have never really paid attention to attendance. All that does is bring in money for them. I like to have a good atmosphere (hence why I've gone more to the Cell than Wrigley in the past years), but the stadium could be half empty for all I care. Just put a winning product on the field!

I must say gOgO, you are one cub fan that tells it like it is, no spinning. The Grober is another. I wish the masses were like you. In reality there are plenty of good cub fans, too bad its the frat boys that ruin it for them. I have to believe most good cub fans are ashamed of the Trixie and Chads too

g0g0
07-08-2010, 02:04 PM
I must say gOgO, you are one cub fan that tells it like it is, no spinning. The Grober is another. I wish the masses were like you. In reality there are plenty of good cub fans, too bad its the frat boys that ruin it for them. I have to believe most good cub fans are ashamed of the Trixie and Chads too

Thanks I appreciate that. It's why I can watch the Sox as I respect the team/fans- they appreciate good baseball and strive to achieve it. If I didn't have those 25 years of Cubdom I would definitely be a life-long Sox fan. :D:

cws05champ
07-08-2010, 04:31 PM
Thanks I appreciate that. It's why I can watch the Sox as I respect the team/fans- they appreciate good baseball and strive to achieve it. If I didn't have those 25 years of Cubdom I would definitely be a life-long Sox fan. :D:

There's always room for improvement!!! :D:

WhiteSox5187
07-08-2010, 04:37 PM
I'd say another big difference is that this video was presumably made by Cubs fans. It's not like this was a clip by rival fans trying to promote a negative Cubs stereotype.

I know die-hard Cub fans who don't like the party crowd at Wrigley either. But I figure you can't have it both ways - you can't complain about that crowd and then boast about better attendance.

The die-hard Cub fans that I know do not go to Wrigley Field anymore. They are not going to plunk down two hundred dollars (probably more) to take their families to see this crap, they would go during a winning season and in 2008 there were probably a lot of legitimate Cubs fans at the ballpark (with a fair number of the drunken frat crowd too). The people who are going to Wrigley now are going for the party and it is evidenced by the fact that people are leaving en masse as soon as the 7th inning stretch is over (which is also when they stop selling beer). If the Sox are contending and the Cubs are playing like crap, I wouldn't be surprised to see Wrigley fairly empty come the dog days of August and September kinda like in 2006.

white sox bill
07-08-2010, 06:38 PM
Thanks I appreciate that. It's why I can watch the Sox as I respect the team/fans- they appreciate good baseball and strive to achieve it. If I didn't have those 25 years of Cubdom I would definitely be a life-long Sox fan. :D:
No problem...its like I say if I want to party, I'll go to Wrigley, but if I'm in the mood for baseball, its the Cell. I celebrated Sox WS win with 2 Cub fans who were louder than I was. I actually enjoyed going to Wrigley pre Tribune years.