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View Full Version : Jon Heyman: "Kenny would like to fire Ozzie if he could".


Danielgosox38
06-15-2010, 01:03 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/jon_heyman/06/14/oswalt.lee/1.html

I know this isn't really a surprise to people..

Rohan
06-15-2010, 01:12 AM
Probably not the best thing for Jerry to say to the press...

Slappy
06-15-2010, 01:32 AM
Not a surprise at all.

On the other hand, Kenny isn't without fault when it comes to this years team. But while Ozzie rants weekly about him or his family getting snubbed for ridiculous reasons, Kenny at least keeps a professional and distraction free atmosphere, and knows how to deal with the media and keep his ego in check.

I want to see Kenny realize his dream of getting another banner up there before he moves on, but I don't think it will be happen with Ozzie at the helm. He's failing as a manager in every way possible.

Ozzie, nobody cares about your family. I'm sorry. We care about watching a winning team and a professional manager.

WhiteSox5187
06-15-2010, 02:12 AM
Not a surprise at all.

On the other hand, Kenny isn't without fault when it comes to this years team. But while Ozzie rants weekly about him or his family getting snubbed for ridiculous reasons, Kenny at least keeps a professional and distraction free atmosphere, and knows how to deal with the media and keep his ego in check.

I want to see Kenny realize his dream of getting another banner up there before he moves on, but I don't think it will be happen with Ozzie at the helm. He's failing as a manager in every way possible.

Ozzie, nobody cares about your family. I'm sorry. We care about watching a winning team and a professional manager.

Ozzie's quotes about his family are fine. I thought his quotes, to the press at least, about the situation with his son were well handled, he said "I'm disappointed because my son is disappointed, but the Sox did what they think is best and this is a business." Ozzie hasn't ranted to the press about his family getting snubbed at all. His son, specifically the one guy on Twitter, does nothing but rant.

In regards to your second paragraph, I doubt that Kenny is the only person in the Sox organization who dreams of getting a second banner up there, but I suspect that with or without Ozzie Kenny might not be the guy who can build a team to do that. Until Ozzie took over as manager, Kenny's teams were consistently under achieving and built around a one dimensional offense with minimal defense and pitching. In 2002 he even said (and it is quoted in an article on this very site) "I thought our offense would over come our defensive liabilities." I think that it is Kenny more than Ozzie who is careless when it comes to defense.

Domeshot17
06-15-2010, 09:09 AM
Ozzie's quotes about his family are fine. I thought his quotes, to the press at least, about the situation with his son were well handled, he said "I'm disappointed because my son is disappointed, but the Sox did what they think is best and this is a business." Ozzie hasn't ranted to the press about his family getting snubbed at all. His son, specifically the one guy on Twitter, does nothing but rant.

In regards to your second paragraph, I doubt that Kenny is the only person in the Sox organization who dreams of getting a second banner up there, but I suspect that with or without Ozzie Kenny might not be the guy who can build a team to do that. Until Ozzie took over as manager, Kenny's teams were consistently under achieving and built around a one dimensional offense with minimal defense and pitching. In 2002 he even said (and it is quoted in an article on this very site) "I thought our offense would over come our defensive liabilities." I think that it is Kenny more than Ozzie who is careless when it comes to defense.

I don't know about that....I mean, yes, Kenny has a tendency, as described by one sports writer, to build teams that should win about 85 games and hope for the best. That said, Ozzie's use of players out of position has been tough to watch.

2005, I don't know how much I credit Kenny or Ozzie for that. Did either have a role in a bullpen full of career years? Kenny gets credit for the rotation, and maybe Ozzie can be credited for maxing out Garland (although hes another career year guy, not repeated)

soltrain21
06-15-2010, 09:19 AM
I don't know about that....I mean, yes, Kenny has a tendency, as described by one sports writer, to build teams that should win about 85 games and hope for the best. That said, Ozzie's use of players out of position has been tough to watch.

2005, I don't know how much I credit Kenny or Ozzie for that. Did either have a role in a bullpen full of career years? Kenny gets credit for the rotation, and maybe Ozzie can be credited for maxing out Garland (although hes another career year guy, not repeated)

2005 was another "hope for the best" year, but the best actually happened for every single player.

VMSNS
06-15-2010, 09:34 AM
Well, this sure is wonderful press for our club.

:rolleyes:

Is anyone else getting tired of this crap? If KW want to fire Ozzie (and I agree with KW) then he should be able to do so. This "loyalty" stuff is a bunch of crap. Being loyal to the organization is great, but when your general manager is trying to improve the team but cannot do so, there's a problem with the hierarchy in your organization. If I was KW, I sure as hell wouldn't like it if I'm trying to do my job with my hands constantly tied behind my back.

I'm thankful that JR put a large payroll into this club, but someone needs to talk to him about the PRIORITIES of this situation. Every day this situation gets worse and worse, and it's always in the press. Everybody knows about it. Something needs to be done to rid this team of all this drama and bull****.

soltrain21
06-15-2010, 09:39 AM
Well, this sure is wonderful press for our club.

:rolleyes:

Is anyone else getting tired of this crap? If KW want to fire Ozzie (and I agree with KW) then he should be able to do so. This "loyalty" stuff is a bunch of crap. Being loyal to the organization is great, but when your general manager is trying to improve the team but cannot do so, there's a problem with the hierarchy in your organization. If I was KW, I sure as hell wouldn't like it if I'm trying to do my job with my hands constantly tied behind my back.

I'm thankful that JR put a large payroll into this club, but someone needs to talk to him about the PRIORITIES of this situation. Every day this situation gets worse and worse, and it's always in the press. Everybody knows about it. Something needs to be done to rid this team of all this drama and bull****.


Yep, this team is a joke from the front office down at this point.

balke
06-15-2010, 10:07 AM
I don't know about that....I mean, yes, Kenny has a tendency, as described by one sports writer, to build teams that should win about 85 games and hope for the best. That said, Ozzie's use of players out of position has been tough to watch.

2005, I don't know how much I credit Kenny or Ozzie for that. Did either have a role in a bullpen full of career years? Kenny gets credit for the rotation, and maybe Ozzie can be credited for maxing out Garland (although hes another career year guy, not repeated)


I think he should get credit for Hermanson - and Everett being able to play CF even though me and every person on Earth thought otherwise.

He also stood tough against Maggs and made one of the biggest boldest pickups in Dye... so yeah almost that entire championship is based on what he saw and other people didn't. You mentioned Garland - a lot of teams would've dealt Garland before that season based on how the fans felt about him and his potential.

soltrain21
06-15-2010, 10:26 AM
I think he should get credit for Hermanson - and Everett being able to play CF even though me and every person on Earth thought otherwise.

He also stood tough against Maggs and made one of the biggest boldest pickups in Dye... so yeah almost that entire championship is based on what he saw and other people didn't. You mentioned Garland - a lot of teams would've dealt Garland before that season based on how the fans felt about him and his potential.

Everett played 22 games in the outfield in 05, 14 in left and 8 in right. He DHed 107 games.

balke
06-15-2010, 10:52 AM
Everett played 22 games in the outfield in 05, 14 in left and 8 in right. He DHed 107 games.

Oh yeah. Forgot about that Rowand guy. I guess it was 03' that he was in CF and I was pissed. But he was better with the bat at DH that year than I expected.

Domeshot17
06-15-2010, 11:01 AM
I think he should get credit for Hermanson - and Everett being able to play CF even though me and every person on Earth thought otherwise.

He also stood tough against Maggs and made one of the biggest boldest pickups in Dye... so yeah almost that entire championship is based on what he saw and other people didn't. You mentioned Garland - a lot of teams would've dealt Garland before that season based on how the fans felt about him and his potential.


Well to be fair, he DID deal Garland, but the Angels owner voided the deal. I will even give Ozzie some credit for Everett showing up more in shape. AJ and Dye were good pick ups. Hermanson was a nice move. A lot of it though was the perfect storm of the lightning in a bottle type moves that have killed us since 2006. Kenny put the team together, he did a lot more than maybe I credit him for. I actually don't have a huge problem with Kenny right now. I would love to see what he could do with a manager who is on the same page as him. Kenny and Oz have both made mistakes, but Kenny is a better GM then Ozzie is a manager.

However, we need something done about the scouting and farm systems. Buddy Bell's impact has been minimal, and we still are not developing players well. We know we will draft like cheap bastards so our drafts will never grade well, but if you can't develop anyone, why spend the money. Don't know if Rick Hahn is the guy or not to do it, but he could be.

soltrain21
06-15-2010, 11:29 AM
Oh yeah. Forgot about that Rowand guy. I guess it was 03' that he was in CF and I was pissed. But he was better with the bat at DH that year than I expected.

Yes, he was. He was also very good at situational hitting.

Dibbs
06-15-2010, 11:58 AM
It just seems like nobody has any foresight, whether it is posters her, Kenny or Uncle Jerry. Ozzie should have been fired by now. Do we need the ship to completely sink before we pull the plug? I would have had Ozzie gone quite some time ago.

white sox bill
06-15-2010, 12:42 PM
All this bickering between Oz and KW, mix in the Ozzie's family politics, the fact we are sub .500 and likely will finish there, the horrid condition of the farm system and its no wonder no impact free agents want to sign here.

Foulke You
06-15-2010, 03:15 PM
Is anyone else getting tired of this crap? If KW want to fire Ozzie (and I agree with KW) then he should be able to do so. This "loyalty" stuff is a bunch of crap. Being loyal to the organization is great, but when your general manager is trying to improve the team but cannot do so, there's a problem with the hierarchy in your organization. If I was KW, I sure as hell wouldn't like it if I'm trying to do my job with my hands constantly tied behind my back.

I agree completely with this statement. JR constantly used to say that Kenny Williams was in charge of the team and he has little input in his baseball decisions. If the guy you hired to build the team no longer believes in his field manager, then how can you stand in the way of him doing his job? If I'm KW, I would feel a bit betrayed by JR's "loyalty" to Ozzie. Regardless, the situation is not functional right now and one of them has to go. I'm not an Ozzie hater, but I have grown frustrated with him this year. This is the 2nd year in a row we are not living up to expectations. In many other organizations, Guillen would have been gone last year. Given the choice between the two, I'd rather keep Kenny Williams and start fresh with a new manager.

Dub25
06-15-2010, 03:32 PM
All this bickering between Oz and KW, mix in the Ozzie's family politics, the fact we are sub .500 and likely will finish there, the horrid condition of the farm system and its no wonder no impact free agents want to sign here.

Horrid condition of the farm system would have to be put on KW as he trades prospects left and right for questionable major leaguers. 6 arms last year for Peavy and Pierre. A middle reliever which arguably is the worst position on the team for a 1B prospect. Konerko is going to be gone after this year and there is no clear cut prospect to fill in and I can't see the checkbook opening up for a big name at a power position after this disastrous season. Don't forget all the rejects from K.C. loves to pickup. C'mon, if they can't cut in K.C. why does he think they will be good here?

balke
06-15-2010, 04:09 PM
Horrid condition of the farm system would have to be put on KW as he trades prospects left and right for questionable major leaguers. 6 arms last year for Peavy and Pierre. A middle reliever which arguably is the worst position on the team for a 1B prospect. Konerko is going to be gone after this year and there is no clear cut prospect to fill in and I can't see the checkbook opening up for a big name at a power position after this disastrous season. Don't forget all the rejects from K.C. loves to pickup. C'mon, if they can't cut in K.C. why does he think they will be good here?


I do want to make one small comment to this. Pena this year has been good when the Sox needed him to be. He hasn't been great with big leads or in junk time - but when the Sox have needed a good performance out of him - they have gotten it for the most part. Not much more you can ask for out of a middle reliever.

Noneck
06-15-2010, 04:23 PM
All this bickering between Oz and KW, mix in the Ozzie's family politics, the fact we are sub .500 and likely will finish there, the horrid condition of the farm system and its no wonder no impact free agents want to sign here.

I think it is either because they don't go after the big FA's or when they do, they low ball them.

CWSpalehoseCWS
06-15-2010, 04:34 PM
I do want to make one small comment to this. Pena this year has been good when the Sox needed him to be. He hasn't been great with big leads or in junk time - but when the Sox have needed a good performance out of him - they have gotten it for the most part. Not much more you can ask for out of a middle reliever.

I don't know, but Pena reminds me of Vizcaino.

FielderJones
06-15-2010, 04:40 PM
Don't forget all the rejects from K.C. loves to pickup. C'mon, if they can't cut in K.C. why does he think they will be good here?

Reminds me of a Harry Caray rant about Eddie Fisher ca 1972-1973:

"This guy wasn't good five years ago -- what makes them think he's going to be any better now?"

Dub25
06-16-2010, 11:37 PM
I do want to make one small comment to this. Pena this year has been good when the Sox needed him to be. He hasn't been great with big leads or in junk time - but when the Sox have needed a good performance out of him - they have gotten it for the most part. Not much more you can ask for out of a middle reliever.

Actually, I will give you that. I guess I can't forgive him for last year. Everytime he came in it was bad... really bad.

Dub25
06-16-2010, 11:38 PM
Reminds me of a Harry Caray rant about Eddie Fisher ca 1972-1973:

"This guy wasn't good five years ago -- what makes them think he's going to be any better now?"

Sorry, I wasn't born until Feb 1st of 1976 but I bet it was good. :tongue: