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tm1119
06-03-2010, 12:56 PM
I thought this could be an interesting thread with a little competition in it as well. Basically predict the moves (if any) you think the Sox will make before the trade deadline or in waivers. You can predict as many or as little as you want. And in trades be sure to make it clear where our player is going and who is coming back in as much detail as possible.

Not quite done mine yet, I'll post them later on.

CWSpalehoseCWS
06-03-2010, 02:08 PM
I wouldn't bother picking which teams, but I could see these moves being made:

Jenks traded. If not traded, he's non-tendered in the offseason.

Konerko traded. I guess LAA is the only place he's accept. And they really need a 1B now.

Williams released. He just sucks. Call up a few guys from the minors to see what we got.

As much as I love Pierzynski, and as much as I wouldn't be that upset if he was moved, I don't see it happening with Flowers not exactly ready and him being a FA at the end of the year.

Of course KW always ends up making the one move you never expect.

tm1119
06-03-2010, 02:28 PM
Ok heres mine:

1. JJ Putz to the Phillies for John Mayberry Jr.

Putz hasnt exactly been great and hes only signed for 1 year so the return for him will be minimal. Phillies need bullpen help as usual and Mayberry is rotting in AAA mashing as he has done his whole minor league career. He will most likely never be a regular MLB OF, but could be a useful 4th OF.

2. Freddy Garcia to the Rockies for PTBNL

Basically the Rockies will be making their usual 2nd half run to make the playoffs, but their pitching staff isnt going to allow them to do that. Freddy isnt anything special, but he would cost the Rockies next to nothing and he has good playoff experience.

And..... Thats it. I wanted to trad PK and AJ as well, but couldnt find any reasonable trading partners for either. When it comes down to it no one really wants AJ. Hes hard to deal with and his production at bat and throwing runners out just isnt enough to warrant bringing him into the club house. PK is though as well because 1b is such a stacked position around the league. The only 2 teams that I came up with as potential fits were the Angles and Giants. The Giants literally have no worthy prospects outside of Madison Bumgarner and I dont see them trading him. And the Angles are 7 games out, they wont be trading for anyone unless they shape up real quick. In the end I see us giving PK a 3 year deal to more or less end his career here.

So basically I see us going into the next season with the same team - AJ, Jenks, Freddy, and Putz. AKA it doesnt look good given our farm system and the lack of players to trade to restock it.

WhiteSox5187
06-03-2010, 03:21 PM
I don't know what trades we'll make, but my big fear is that we won't make any. Even in 2007 we only traded Iguchi.

khan
06-03-2010, 03:45 PM
I for one hope that KW can make more than two trades.

This team needs to shed age and to shed salary. The organization needs to ADD ASSETS, since there are few-to-none at present.

A lot can happen between now and the trading deadline. Other teams rise into or fall out of contention. Some GMs become buyers, while others become sellers. Players get hot, while others have their annual 6 week vacation from hitting. Some players get healthy, while others have their annual trip to the DL.

As fans, we can root for our team to start winning, AND for our GM to make better decisions than he has lately.

NLaloosh
06-03-2010, 03:54 PM
I don't know what trades we'll make, but my big fear is that we won't make any. Even in 2007 we only traded Iguchi.

Exactly. I'd like him to make 10-12. He'll probably make 1 or 2 insignificant ones.

I'll predict that he trades Jenks to the Phillies for a C prospect. That's it.

KenBerryGrab
06-03-2010, 04:03 PM
To find a trade partner, you have to have someone somebody wants.

We don't have a lot of those guys.

GAsoxfan
06-03-2010, 04:07 PM
When it comes down to it no one really wants AJ.

I think the Rangers could still want AJ. Their catchers are just as bad as AJ at the plate, but AJ at least has a history of success. The Rangers catchers have either never been successful in the majors or can't get the ball back to the pitcher. They could be willing to take the chance that he returns to form.

Huisj
06-03-2010, 04:14 PM
Exactly. I'd like him to make 10-12. He'll probably make 1 or 2 insignificant ones.

I'll predict that he trades Jenks to the Phillies for a C prospect. That's it.

Do they have any of those left? Looking at recent minor league reports about them, they traded two bigger catching prospects away--Lou Marson went to Cleveland in the Cliff Lee trade, and Travis D'Arnaud went to Toronto in the Halladay trade. They have a guy named Sebastian Valle who gets on some lists as being possibly good, but he's just 19 and in A ball. Would they trade 3 catching prospects in 3 years?

munchman33
06-03-2010, 04:15 PM
I predict A.J., Linebrink, Putz, Jenks, Konerko, Buehrle, and Andruw are traded for prospects we would already have if we simply drafted better.

WhiteSox5187
06-03-2010, 04:19 PM
I predict A.J., Linebrink, Putz, Jenks, Konerko, Buehrle, and Andruw are traded for prospects we would already have if we simply drafted better.

I don't think anyone is going to take on Linebrink's contract and I don't see the Sox eating any money of that contract. We also owe Buerhle a big penalty if we trade him as well.

tm1119
06-03-2010, 04:29 PM
To make this thread a little more in depth lets breakdown the roster and see who is can be traded.

C- AJ- teams in contention that need a C= Texas and maybe Tampa. And Tampa isnt going to trade any young players to add salary. Texas is the only team I can see trading for AJ, but why would they if AJ doesnt start hitting?
Castro- Ehh, hes not much, but maybe a team would want a vet backup going into the playoffs. A small amount of cash is about all we could get for him.
1B- PK- Teams in contention that need a 1B/DH= Angles, San Fran, Tampa, Texas. Given PK's full no trade clause, high salary, and the fact that he is the face of this franchise it wont be easy to trade him. Angles seem like the likeliest candidate, but being 7 games out they are going to have to turn things around before they trade for anyone.
2b- Beckham- Not going anywhere, because of his upside and age.

SS- Alexei- Ehh hes probably not going anywhere either. Relatively cheap for the production we get out of him. And again, most teams in contention are not looking for SS's as that is usually the most talented position. I can see San Diego and St. Louis are 2 teams that I can see needing a middle IF.

3B- Teahen/Nix/Vizquel- No one wants any of them

OF- Quentin- Playing too poorly to trade
Rios- Playing too well to trade
Pierre- No one wants him
Jones/Kotsay- No one wants either as its apparent that Jones is turning back into his usual crappy self.

SP's- Freddy is the only 1 I see getting traded, and teams wont exactly be clamoring for him. Danks, Peavy, Buehrle, and Floyd are all good pitchers when right and still under team control for a while so no need to trade them right now.

RP- Jenks- Needs to step up or hes going to get cut instead of traded. I could see some team taking a chance on him thinking a change of scenery could help him
Putz- very likely to get traded as hes been solid with good experience. His salary wont deter anyone either. Wont get much in return though
Linebrink- Highly doubt anybody wants him.
Thornton- shouldnt be going anywhere
Santos- not going anywhere
Pena- I could see a team wanting him, but I highly doubt we get as much as we gave up.

Trust me, I would love for this team to be blown up, but I just dont see the demand for our players in order to do so.

khan
06-03-2010, 04:43 PM
C- AJ- Castro-
1B- PK-
2b- Beckham
SS- Alexei-
3B- Teahen/Nix/Vizquel-
OF- Quentin- Playing too poorly to trade
Pierre- No one wants him
Jones/Kotsay- No one wants either as its apparent that Jones is turning back into his usual crappy self
Agreed on all of these

Rios- Playing too well to trade
This has never been a reason why a player can't/won't be traded. The reasons why Rios isn't going anywhere are the obese salaries he's due in coming seasons.

SP's- Freddy is the only 1 I see getting traded, and teams wont exactly be clamoring for him.
You'd be surprised how desperate a team will get down the road. How many times were the SOX scuppered by a craptacular 5th starter in years past? Having an innings-eater that has a big-game reputation can be invaluable to a team. I think Freddy, should he remain healthy and productive, can return SOMETHING, especially if the trading partner becomes desperate.

Danks, Peavy, Buehrle, and Floyd are all good pitchers when right and still under team control for a while so no need to trade them right now.
Agreed about Danks/Floyd. However, Buehrle and Peavy aren't going anywhere because of their wages, NOT because of their purported quality.


RP- Jenks
Putz-
Linebrink-
Santos-
Agreed about these four. Jenks/Putz probably SHOULD be traded, especially Putz.

Thornton- shouldnt be going anywhere.
I disagree. Thornton is [EDIT] 33 years old already. By the time the SOX are relevant again, he will be too old to be much more than a LOOGY. Of course, by THAT time, he will command a HUGE salary.

I support trading him NOW, NOT because I want him gone. But rather, that there will be a LONG LINE of suitors for the best setup man in baseball. The return could be pretty good, IMO.

Pena- I could see a team wanting him, but I highly doubt we get as much as we gave up.
Agreed, ONLY because KW stupidly gave up WAY TOO MUCH for this guy.

Trust me, I would love for this team to be blown up, but I just dont see the demand for our players in order to do so.
Actually, I think there are some pieces that can be shipped out for something of value. Not a HUGE number of assets, but there are a few tradable pieces, IMO.

102605
06-03-2010, 04:47 PM
Exactly. I'd like him to make 10-12. He'll probably make 1 or 2 insignificant ones.

I'll predict that he trades Jenks to the Phillies for a C prospect. That's it.

Well the problem is that you might get a better value prospect for the compensation pick on someone like Konerko or AJ. Therefore it is better to just hang onto them and let them leavie via FA.

khan
06-03-2010, 04:52 PM
Well the problem is that you might get a better value prospect for the compensation pick on someone like Konerko or AJ. Therefore it is better to just hang onto them and let them leavie via FA.
The compensation picks only occur if the player is offered arbitration and refuses, OR if the player is signed elsewhere.

The problem with your theory is that BOTH Konerko AND AJ would definitely accept arbitration if offered it at the end of the season. The reason for this is that BOTH of them would stand to earn MILLIONS more in arbitration, than if they were not in the arbitration process.

Since the SOX [stupidly] already have $66M committed to 11 players for 2011 according to Cots, the SOX cannot afford both Konerko and AJ at arbitration prices for 2011. In fact, I don't think they can afford EITHER at arbitration prices for 2011. If AJ is @ $6.25M NOW, what would he get in arb? $4M? $8M? And the same is true for Konerko. He's at $12M NOW, would he go up to $15M or down to $10M? I honestly don't know.

In either case, the SOX can't afford ~$14M - $18M on these two aging guys, whether we like it or not.

It is better to trade these two away before the end of the season, and get something in return than it is to lose them for NOTHING.

Huisj
06-03-2010, 04:53 PM
I know this would be extremely unpopular, but what about someone taking a bite at Danks? He's into arbitration, and he'll be a FA after '12, and hasn't shown a sign of going for an extension deal. Selling him now might be a case of selling as high as he'll be, and it could net a solid piece.

Not saying I want to see that happen, just wondering if something that outrageous would ever happen.

With so many guys playing below their normal ability this year, that makes it tough to put together much of a firesale, especially when some of those guys are wrapped up in long contracts. The core of long-termers like Peavy, Buehrle, Rios, Pierre, and Floyd won't go anywhere, and the hope will be that they'll bounce back to actual ability levels by next year and form a solid core to build other pieces around.

mzh
06-03-2010, 05:20 PM
Agreed, ONLY because KW stupidly gave up WAY TOO MUCH for this guy.

Yep, I'd love to have back that fat first baseman who's hitting .209 with 0 homers in AAA. I still think he could be a valuable 7th inning pitcher.

tm1119
06-03-2010, 06:18 PM
Yep, I'd love to have back that fat first baseman who's hitting .209 with 0 homers in AAA. I still think he could be a valuable 7th inning pitcher.

Regardless, Allen was a fairly high ranking prospect at the time of that trade. We would never get back anything close to a decent prospect in return for Pena now. Hes a dime a dozen middle reliever in this league.

theamb
06-03-2010, 06:19 PM
It would be easier to trade if we actually had prospects

Perhaps a minor trade will be made but I predict disappointment.

Frater Perdurabo
06-03-2010, 08:48 PM
Part prediction, part fantasy:

Paulie to the Angels for switch-hitting catcher Hank Conger

AJ to the Rangers for a prospect

Jones, Kotsay, Linebrink, Putz and Jenks to the highest bidder(s)

This offseason, improve the defense with Carl Crawford (RF) and Adam Everett (SS) and bring back Paulie on a cheaper deal. (Every position becomes above average defensively except the Pierre/Quentin platoon in LF/DH.) Rebuild the bullpen with Matt Guerrier and Jon Rauch.

Lineup: LF/DH Pierre, 2B Alexei, RF Crawford, CF Rios, DH/LF TCQ, 1B PK, 3B Beckham, C Conger, SS Everett
Bench: Teahen, Flowers, Lucy, Alexei
Rotation: Peavy, Danks, Floyd, Buehrle, Garcia
Bullpen: Santos, Thornton, Rauch, Guerrier, Pena, Hudson, Torres

gosox41
06-03-2010, 10:12 PM
I for one hope that KW can make more than two trades.

This team needs to shed age and to shed salary. The organization needs to ADD ASSETS, since there are few-to-none at present.

A lot can happen between now and the trading deadline. Other teams rise into or fall out of contention. Some GMs become buyers, while others become sellers. Players get hot, while others have their annual 6 week vacation from hitting. Some players get healthy, while others have their annual trip to the DL.

As fans, we can root for our team to start winning, AND for our GM to make better decisions than he has lately.

When it comes to making mid-season trades when the Sox are out of contention, KW has a horrible track record. He doesn't make trades he should make because he's overvaluing our players, and then when he trades players he gets crap in return (ie trading an All Star second baseman for John Adkins.) I won't let that one go.

KW has to realize this isn't 1980's anymore, where you can trade a left handed DH in his 30's for a #3 starting pitche, a right fielder with potential (even forgetting about steroids) and a utility infielder.

Teams are valuing prospects differently. But that doesn't mean he needs to hold a player to prove a point. Sometimes it's better to shed the salary and except less, especially when the few teams that covet a player aren't biting.

My point is, don't trade players having solid seasons for 25 year old AAA pitchers coming off injurybut realistically don't expect to get two or three of a teams top prospects.


Bob

A. Cavatica
06-03-2010, 11:32 PM
Someone mentioned Iguchi...I think KW will acquire Iguchi, and possibly Geoff Blum. And some ex-Indians and ex-Royals.

Tragg
06-04-2010, 01:45 AM
Considering that Williams' trade savvy seems to be in decline and that he's never gotten a single B or above prospect when dumping veterans at the deadline that I can recall going all the way back to the gift of Durham to Billy Beane, I predict:
AJ, and Jenks will be traded for organizational minor leaguers.
Freddie and Jones will be traded for one C- prospect each.
Putz will be traded for a B- prospect
Linebrink plus $1.5 Million will be traded for an organizational minor leaguer
Vizquel will be traded for a D prospect

Teams will want Konerko but not offer much of value, believing that the Sox owe them a gift and Williams will say "negatory good buddy". Reasonable offers will be made for Thornton, but they won't be for what Kenny's looking for and he won't pull the trigger.

What I would do is really try to work deal for Thornton. Someone will bite and bite big.

I would then spend the rest of the season fixing the defense (position changes perhaps in the infield?) and figuring out which of our AAA pitchers can work in the pen next year. Sign a quality RF in the offseason.

cws05champ
06-04-2010, 11:18 AM
You'd be surprised how desperate a team will get down the road. How many times were the SOX scuppered by a craptacular 5th starter in years past? Having an innings-eater that has a big-game reputation can be invaluable to a team. I think Freddy, should he remain healthy and productive, can return SOMETHING, especially if the trading partner becomes desperate.

Freddy has had a couple stinker games, but if you take out those two outings where he gave up 14ER in 5 1/3, his ERA is 3.05 in the other 8 games. Not bad in the AL. I think ML GM's look at those things when trading for a guy. That combined with his low salary he becomes fairly desirable, especially for an NL team.

Thornton is [EDIT] 33 years old already. By the time the SOX are relevant again, he will be too old to be much more than a LOOGY. Of course, by THAT time, he will command a HUGE salary.

I support trading him NOW, NOT because I want him gone. But rather, that there will be a LONG LINE of suitors for the best setup man in baseball. The return could be pretty good, IMO.


I fully support trading Thornton because he has tremendous value, and there could be a bidding war for a guy like that. You may even be able to lump Jenks and his salary in the deal and still bring back a couple good prospects.


Here are my predictions, although I don't think all of these will happen because they won't gut the team completely:

AJ: Traded to Texas with $3M cash for Jurikson Profar (SS); potential 5 tool SS, young 17yrs old
JJ Putz: Traded to the Phillies for Jarred Cosart (RHP), could be a nice power reliever or starter down the line.
Thornton: To the Reds for Travis Wood (LHP), and another lower level prospect
Freddy Garcia: To the Cardinals for Allen Craig 1B/3B. ML ready bat at 1B but nowhere to play in St.Louis behind Pujols. Can replace PK next year.

Konerko: San Francisco (maybe), Angels, Tampa Bay would make sense and Andruw Jones to San Francisco or Atlanta.

Tragg
06-04-2010, 11:29 AM
Here are my predictions, although I don't think all of these will happen because they won't gut the team completely:

AJ: Traded to Texas with $3M cash for Jurikson Profar (SS); potential 5 tool SS, young 17yrs old
JJ Putz: Traded to the Phillies for Jarred Cosart (RHP), could be a nice power reliever or starter down the line.
Thornton: To the Reds for Travis Wood (LHP), and another lower level prospect
Freddy Garcia: To the Cardinals for Allen Craig 1B/3B. ML ready bat at 1B but nowhere to play in St.Louis behind Pujols. Can replace PK next year.

Konerko: San Francisco (maybe), Angels, Tampa Bay would make sense and Andruw Jones to San Francisco or Atlanta. If you can accomplish that, you're hired!

To make this thread a little more in depth lets breakdown the roster and see who is can be traded.

C- AJ- teams in contention that need a C= Texas
Just a sidenote...the idea that Texas needs a catcher really demonstrates how fragile prospects, even top prospects, are. Didn't the Rangers have 2 A+ Catching prospects plus one solid B catching prospect just a year ago?

NLaloosh
06-04-2010, 12:02 PM
Well the problem is that you might get a better value prospect for the compensation pick on someone like Konerko or AJ. Therefore it is better to just hang onto them and let them leavie via FA.

In some organizations that might be the way to go. But, the Sox are not good with this situation or the draft.

Just trade these guys now and get the best possible long term prospects that you can:

Putz, Jenks, Buehrle, Peavy, Floyd, Jones, Linebrink, A.J. and Konerko.

Then, stop throwing money at the Major League payroll for a few years and develop a serious international scouting system as well as top notch scouting, drafting, coaching and player development. That's where the money needs to go in this organization until things get righted.

GAsoxfan
06-04-2010, 12:20 PM
If you can accomplish that, you're hired!


Just a sidenote...the idea that Texas needs a catcher really demonstrates how fragile prospects, even top prospects, are. Didn't the Rangers have 2 A+ Catching prospects plus one solid B catching prospect just a year ago?

Yep. Salty, Ramirez, and Teagarden. Salty has the yips and is in AAA trying to get the ball back to the pitcher.

slavko
06-04-2010, 12:23 PM
In some organizations that might be the way to go. But, the Sox are not good with this situation or the draft.

Just trade these guys now and get the best possible long term prospects that you can:

Putz, Jenks, Buehrle, Peavy, Floyd, Jones, Linebrink, A.J. and Konerko.

Then, stop throwing money at the Major League payroll for a few years and develop a serious international scouting system as well as top notch scouting, drafting, coaching and player development. That's where the money needs to go in this organization until things get righted.

That last paragraph would require the earth shifting on its axis, as this organization's philosophy goes. Be prepared for some lean years if it happens, maybe if it doesn't. Jenks is being showcased for fast delivery and will be gone by 7/15 or I will be very surprised.

khan
06-04-2010, 01:14 PM
Freddy has had a couple stinker games, but if you take out those two outings where he gave up 14ER in 5 1/3, his ERA is 3.05 in the other 8 games. Not bad in the AL. I think ML GM's look at those things when trading for a guy. That combined with his low salary he becomes fairly desirable, especially for an NL team.
Exactly. A low-salaried veteran with a history of coming up big in crucial situations is the DEFINITION of a "rent-a-player." And I can assure people that SOME team will have an injury, or have a 5th SP start to wet the bed.

What we have to root for is that Freddy remains healthy and his performance continues to be strong. That way, he can be a nice rent-a-player for a good team that returns a useable asset.


I fully support trading Thornton because he has tremendous value, and there could be a bidding war for a guy like that. You may even be able to lump Jenks and his salary in the deal and still bring back a couple good prospects.
Agreed. At his age, it is pretty much time to sell high on Thornton. He's probably one of, if not THE best LH setup men in the game, and at a rock-bottom price for this and next season. Thornton should return a LOT, IMO.

Here are my predictions, although I don't think all of these will happen because they won't gut the team completely
And to me, this is the disappointing part. I think that KW will execute fewer trades than are really necessary. I think that he will get FAR LESS in return than he should, based on his well-documented history of doing so. This team NEEDS to get younger, cheaper, and better.

WhiteSoxFTW
06-04-2010, 01:29 PM
PK came out last year and said that he will be for whatever trade helps the White Sox.

I wonder if he try and trade him at the deadline, if he will still be okay with that.

khan
06-04-2010, 01:34 PM
Yep, I'd love to have back that fat first baseman who's hitting .209 with 0 homers in AAA. I still think he could be a valuable 7th inning pitcher.

Yeah, a 26 game sample can tell you EVERYTHING you need to know about a player, right?

TheOldRoman
06-04-2010, 01:38 PM
This has never been a reason why a player can't/won't be traded. The reasons why Rios isn't going anywhere are the obese salaries he's due in coming seasons. :rolleyes: There you go with that word again. Rios doesn't have a ridiculous salary. He is making $12-12.5 million a year over the next 4 seasons, and is only 29 years old. If he plays to his career averages, that contract isn't bad considering he gives great defense at a prime position. If he plays up to his potential, as he has this year, that is a downright bargain. You people keep throwing this crap at the wall as if he got Barry Zito's contract.

I disagree. Thornton is [EDIT] 33 years old already. By the time the SOX are relevant again, he will be too old to be much more than a LOOGY. Of course, by THAT time, he will command a HUGE salary. Once again, eye roll. We heard this same stuff 07 into 08. It would be years before the Sox would even sniff the top half of the division, franchise in shambles, etc.

Regardless, Allen was a fairly high ranking prospect at the time of that trade.That isn't true...

We would never get back anything close to a decent prospect in return for Pena now. Hes a dime a dozen middle reliever in this league. and neither is that.

khan
06-04-2010, 01:41 PM
When it comes to making mid-season trades when the Sox are out of contention, KW has a horrible track record. He doesn't make trades he should make because he's overvaluing our players, and then when he trades players he gets crap in return (ie trading an All Star second baseman for John Adkins.) I won't let that one go.
Unfortunately, I agree with all of this.

Teams are valuing prospects differently. But that doesn't mean he needs to hold a player to prove a point. Sometimes it's better to shed the salary and except less, especially when the few teams that covet a player aren't biting.

My point is, don't trade players having solid seasons for 25 year old AAA pitchers coming off injurybut realistically don't expect to get two or three of a teams top prospects.

Bob
Well, I think what KW has to do is to scour the minor league rosters for players that are blocked by STAR players in their MLB rosters. Another poster mentioned a 1B in the Cardinals org. THAT's the type of trading partner KW has to seek out. Leveraging THOSE types of situations is how KW can extract value for our players.

Here's hoping that KW can get this job done.

tm1119
06-04-2010, 01:44 PM
Exactly. A low-salaried veteran with a history of coming up big in crucial situations is the DEFINITION of a "rent-a-player." And I can assure people that SOME team will have an injury, or have a 5th SP start to wet the bed.

What we have to root for is that Freddy remains healthy and his performance continues to be strong. That way, he can be a nice rent-a-player for a good team that returns a useable asset.



Agreed. At his age, it is pretty much time to sell high on Thornton. He's probably one of, if not THE best LH setup men in the game, and at a rock-bottom price for this and next season. Thornton should return a LOT, IMO.


And to me, this is the disappointing part. I think that KW will execute fewer trades than are really necessary. I think that he will get FAR LESS in return than he should, based on his well-documented history of doing so. This team NEEDS to get younger, cheaper, and better.

The problem with Thorton is that hes not a closer and has minimal experience doing it. No team is going to give THAT much for him. I agree we could get 1 nice prospect for him, but not 2. Probably 1 A prospect and and a B-/C+ if you wanna use that type of scale. Now, I only do that if youre giving up on next season as well. If we trade Thorton and the fact that Bobby and Putz are all but gone our pen would be pretty empty. With the SP's we still have im not sure if I would do that quite yet. I would only look to trade the guys that wont be here next year anyway. Freddy, Bobby, Putz, Jones, and AJ. Im still on the fence with PK, just because I still think he has 2-3 more good years left in him and believe he would take a nice home town discount.

khan
06-04-2010, 01:50 PM
:rolleyes: There you go with that word again. Rios doesn't have a ridiculous salary. He is making $12-12.5 million a year over the next 4 seasons, and is only 29 years old. If he plays to his career averages, that contract isn't bad considering he gives great defense at a prime position. If he plays up to his potential, as he has this year, that is a downright bargain. You people keep throwing this crap at the wall as if he got Barry Zito's contract.

Think about it this way:

Exactly WHO in MLB is positioned to take on the remaining $52M on Rios' contract, AND have a NEED @ CF, AND can give the SOX fair value in trade?

Once you've gotten the list of teams that can take on the salary [Perhaps TWO teams NYY/BOS?],

THEN cull it by the number of teams that have a NEED for a CF [NONE of them],

THEN find value in return [again, NO TEAMS will do anything BEYOND take on the $52M outstanding on Rios' contract],

you'll see that Rios' contract is in fact obese with respect to tradeability.

Once again, eye roll. We heard this same stuff 07 into 08. It would be years before the Sox would even sniff the top half of the division, franchise in shambles, etc.


Yeah, and Minnesota didn't have the financial wherewithal that it has today. Their NEW stadium arms them with the dollars to do things in FA that they couldn't do back in '07-'08. Back then, they couldn't keep Santana or Hunter, but NOW they can keep Mauer and Morneau, for example. Add into this the fact that Minnesota are SUPERIOR scouts and talent developers, too.

Detroit also did a nice job of ADDING pieces to their minor league system, while the SOX have given assets away. Oh, and the SOX core players are all 2 or 3 years older than in 2007.

Not to mention the number of holes in the big league club, PLUS the lack of financial flexibility going forward. [$66M committed to 11 players for 2011; Lowered attendance usually results in a lowered financial committment by JR]

khan
06-04-2010, 02:02 PM
The problem with Thorton is that hes not a closer and has minimal experience doing it. No team is going to give THAT much for him. I agree we could get 1 nice prospect for him, but not 2. Probably 1 A prospect and and a B-/C+ if you wanna use that type of scale.
And that would be great. But I STILL think that more than one team would be in on trying to acquire the best LH reliever in the game. This could improve KW's leverage, and drive up the cost.

In either case, Thornton is 33, and will be 34 by the start of next season. 34 year old relievers usually don't get better. They tend to get worse with time. IMO, now is the time to get something BEFORE his inevitable age-related decline.

Now, I only do that if youre giving up on next season as well. If we trade Thorton and the fact that Bobby and Putz are all but gone our pen would be pretty empty. With the SP's we still have im not sure if I would do that quite yet.
Think about this:

There still isn't a legit LH power hitter in the lineup.

There's a HUGE question as to whether or not there will be a MLB-quality C in the roster next season.

The supposed "young stars" [Beckham/Quentin] are looking more like FRAUDS than stars, unfortunately.

There isn't a legit RH power hitter, IF Konerko is gone by next season.

The IF defense sucks, especially with the overpaid craptacular 3rd baseman.

It is possible that the #1 and #2 SPs are on the downward slopes of their careers, despite their collective $30M in salaries.

There are $66M in salary commitments to only 11 players, leaving some ~$34M or so for 14 players, assuming a ~$100M salary budget. [Again, this assumes that JR doesn't CUT salaries for 2011, in response to crappifying attendance in 2010.]

The manager LOVES to use crappy utility players as starters.


Oh, and BTW: There aren't many solutions for the aforementioned problems anywhere in the organization. I'm sure I've forgotten some other issues, but these are just off the top of my head.


I would only look to trade the guys that wont be here next year anyway. Freddy, Bobby, Putz, Jones, and AJ. Im still on the fence with PK, just because I still think he has 2-3 more good years left in him and believe he would take a nice home town discount.
If I were more convinced about solutions for the other problems in the team, I might be inclined to agree with you.

Konerko's already @ $12M/yr. How much of a discount do you think he'd offer to be on a questionable team for the remainder of his MLB days? Down to $10M? To me, that doesn't make sense for Konerko, OR for the SOX.

Tragg
06-04-2010, 05:59 PM
When it comes to making mid-season trades when the Sox are out of contention, KW has a horrible track record. He doesn't make trades he should make because he's overvaluing our players, and then when he trades players he gets crap in return (ie trading an All Star second baseman for John Adkins.) I won't let that one go.

I agree that his midseason vet dumping has been terrible. BUT your post seems inconsistent...if he can't be over-valuing players when he doesn't get squat for them.

jabrch
06-04-2010, 06:22 PM
I predict a ton of whining, bitching and complaining from a small handful of people no matter what KW does.

CLR01
06-04-2010, 08:07 PM
I predict a ton of ass kissing no matter what KW does from a different handful of people.

gosox41
06-04-2010, 11:20 PM
I agree that his midseason vet dumping has been terrible. BUT your post seems inconsistent...if he can't be over-valuing players when he doesn't get squat for them.


He just needs to be realistic. If memory serves he wanted Ellsbury, Bucholz and another prospect for Buehrle in 2007. It's good to ask for that and shoot for the moon. But if only one team is showing serious interested (which based on reports it was only the Red Sox who were seriously negotiating) then it becomes a poker game. Without knowing what went on behind the scenes, maybe the realistic expectation in that situation is to have shot for Ellsbury or Bucholz.

Bob

Tragg
06-04-2010, 11:29 PM
He just needs to be realistic. If memory serves he wanted Ellsbury, Bucholz and another prospect for Buehrle in 2007. It's good to ask for that and shoot for the moon. But if only one team is showing serious interested (which based on reports it was only the Red Sox who were seriously negotiating) then it becomes a poker game. Without knowing what went on behind the scenes, maybe the realistic expectation in that situation is to have shot for Ellsbury or Bucholz.

Bob
My perception is that teams think that they can get a deal from Williams so he doesn't get the offers others do. Maybe just my impression.
I just ask this- if Williams gives 3 of our best prospects for the "somewhat above average" Swisher, why does he get only 1 real prospect for, say, Javy and Logan?

WhiteSox5187
06-04-2010, 11:29 PM
I predict a ton of ass kissing no matter what KW does from a different handful of people.

Honestly, it never ceases to amaze me how many people want Ozzie fired but I don't see any "Fire Kenny" tags in these threads. He is every bit as responsible for this disaster as Ozzie and is the architect of the 2007 disaster.

A. Cavatica
06-04-2010, 11:50 PM
My perception is that teams think that they can get a deal from Williams so he doesn't get the offers others do. Maybe just my impression.
I just ask this- if Williams gives 3 of our best prospects for the "somewhat above average" Swisher, why does he get only 1 real prospect for, say, Javy and Logan?

At least he got Flowers and didn't settle for just Lillibridge.

WhiteSox56
06-04-2010, 11:58 PM
**** it. Clean house. But then again, we would be trading **** for ****. Unless KW can pull off something amazing, which isn't unusual, then I see a dim future. Man I really hope the Sox can pull out of this hole they are in.

Tragg
06-05-2010, 01:10 AM
At least he got Flowers and didn't settle for just Lillibridge. Good point..."settling for Lillibridge" is basically what he did in Swisher #2.