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GoGoCrede
06-02-2010, 08:14 PM
Against Cleveland.

Box score - http://mlb.mlb.com/news/boxscore.jsp?gid=2010_06_02_clemlb_detmlb_1

Brian26
06-02-2010, 08:17 PM
Oh come on, this is getting ridiculous now. :tongue:

SephClone89
06-02-2010, 08:17 PM
This is insane.

sox1970
06-02-2010, 08:18 PM
What in the wide wide world of sports is a goin' on here?

GoGoCrede
06-02-2010, 08:30 PM
Through 7! 5 more outs.

JermaineDye05
06-02-2010, 08:31 PM
Seriously, the baseball Gods are handing these out like hot cakes now.

DirtySox
06-02-2010, 08:31 PM
The hell?

JermaineDye05
06-02-2010, 08:33 PM
No offense to him, but he just shows how bad Cleveland has been. On the other side, it shows how bad we've been as well.

thomas35forever
06-02-2010, 08:36 PM
This is unbelievable. Three perfect games in less than a month?

One guy on ESPN just speculated maybe this will lead to the mound being lowered.

JermaineDye05
06-02-2010, 08:39 PM
I could see Grudzielanek breaking it up.

JermaineDye05
06-02-2010, 08:41 PM
How the hell have we lost 6 times to the Indians? I know we're bad, but seriously this is comical. a single to RF and Choo threw it to literally nobody and two runs scored as a result.

theamb
06-02-2010, 08:44 PM
No offense to him, but he just shows how bad Cleveland has been. On the other side, it shows how bad we've been as well.

Galarraga has pitched well since returning to the majors.

But I'm sure Cleveland isn't hurting him

DirtySox
06-02-2010, 08:46 PM
Wow! Jackson!

thomas35forever
06-02-2010, 08:46 PM
Trying to steal Wise's thunder, huh?

Rohan
06-02-2010, 08:46 PM
Austin jackson!

WhiteSox5187
06-02-2010, 08:47 PM
Trying to steal Wise's thunder, huh?

That might have been as good as Wise's catch.

And if this leads to the mound being lowered, Jesus...if anything they should raise it back to pre-1968 levels.

SephClone89
06-02-2010, 08:48 PM
Trying to steal Wise's thunder, huh?

Looked more like Willie Mays.

thomas35forever
06-02-2010, 08:48 PM
One to go!

theamb
06-02-2010, 08:48 PM
That was one hell of a catch by Jackson

thomas35forever
06-02-2010, 08:48 PM
Looked more like Willie Mays.
That's what I thought.

Rohan
06-02-2010, 08:48 PM
I don't think that first strike on Donald was a strike at all...

JermaineDye05
06-02-2010, 08:49 PM
the umps strike zone is horribly in favor of galaraga.

Rohan
06-02-2010, 08:49 PM
Wow! That ump's got some balls!

DirtySox
06-02-2010, 08:49 PM
Holy ****. Replay please. I thought he was out!

thomas35forever
06-02-2010, 08:49 PM
Oh my God. How close can you get?!

HE WAS OUT!

WhiteSox5187
06-02-2010, 08:49 PM
OH NO! Oh wow, that was too close to give to NOT give it to him. Again, an ump wants to be part of the show.

DirtySox
06-02-2010, 08:50 PM
Oh man.

Epic epic failure.

Rohan
06-02-2010, 08:50 PM
the umps strike zone is horribly in favor of galaraga.

He's out! That's just awful officiating!

WhiteSox5187
06-02-2010, 08:50 PM
holy ****. Replay please. I thought he was out!

they blew it!

theamb
06-02-2010, 08:50 PM
Wow..Detroit just got jobbed

DirtySox
06-02-2010, 08:50 PM
Oh man.

I feel terrible for Armando. I don't care that he's a division foe.

illini81887
06-02-2010, 08:50 PM
another piece of **** ump

GoGoCrede
06-02-2010, 08:50 PM
What happened?! Is it over?

thomas35forever
06-02-2010, 08:51 PM
The Tigers need to file a protest. There's no way he was safe.

asindc
06-02-2010, 08:51 PM
I wonder if he will ump in Detroit again this year.

MARTINMVP
06-02-2010, 08:52 PM
Unbelievable. Where the hell do these umps come from? This really pisses me off and I don't even like the Tigers.

JermaineDye05
06-02-2010, 08:52 PM
Wow, I didn't want him to get it but wow worst call in the history of baseball.

thomas35forever
06-02-2010, 08:52 PM
I wonder if he will ump in Detroit again this year.
He better not if he knows what's good for him. This is the greatest injustice in baseball in a LONG time.

Imagine if Hawk was in the booth.

DirtySox
06-02-2010, 08:52 PM
That really hurts.

JermaineDye05
06-02-2010, 08:53 PM
What happened?! Is it over?

it was a grounder to second and the ball was flipped to Galarraga who touched first base a good 3 feet before Donald. Donald was ruled safe and it was ruled a hit.

WhiteSox5187
06-02-2010, 08:53 PM
Well Joe West will be glad to know he has no longer made the worst call of the year. Honestly, what do these guys get paid for? I know you can't be right 100% of the time, but Jesus.

GoGoCrede
06-02-2010, 08:53 PM
it was a grounder to second and the ball was flipped to Galarraga who touched first base a good 3 feet before Donald. Donald was ruled safe and it was ruled a hit.

That's horrible. Ugh. I can imagine how Tigers fans feel right now.

theamb
06-02-2010, 08:54 PM
Can't blame Detroit for being angry

They have every right to be pissed after that.

twentywontowin
06-02-2010, 08:54 PM
it was a grounder to second and the ball was flipped to Galarraga who touched first base a good 3 feet before Donald. Donald was ruled safe and it was ruled a hit.

That's ridiculous. Even if it's close, you give it to the guy.

twinsuck
06-02-2010, 08:54 PM
omg that was such BS!!!! I was screaming at my tv. Could they overrule that??

WhiteSox5187
06-02-2010, 08:55 PM
The Tigers need to file a protest. There's no way he was safe.

I don't think you can protest one call, especially because they won the game. That ump though should be suspended. MLB needs to make these bans public, it's not fair that everyone knows a player was suspended for arguing a call when the guy who blew the call and more often provoked the player into getting tossed is punished behind closed doors.

MARTINMVP
06-02-2010, 08:55 PM
Any chance Bud or a higher up from MLB ordered this type of rig? No reason why that would make sense, but I can't help but wonder.

WhiteSox5187
06-02-2010, 08:56 PM
That's ridiculous. Even if it's close, you give it to the guy.

Bruce Foeming would beg to differ. THAT might be the worst call, 3-2 count and he gives the guy a walk.

JermaineDye05
06-02-2010, 08:56 PM
That's ridiculous. Even if it's close, you give it to the guy.

I don't know about that. The guy has to earn the perfect game. I wouldn't want it to come down to a bang-bang play.

That being said, it wasn't even close. He was out by sooo much.

theamb
06-02-2010, 08:56 PM
That's ridiculous. Even if it's close, you give it to the guy.

Exactly...especially under that situation, at home

thomas35forever
06-02-2010, 08:59 PM
I don't think you can protest one call, especially because they won the game. That ump though should be suspended. MLB needs to make these bans public, it's not fair that everyone knows a player was suspended for arguing a call when the guy who blew the call and more often provoked the player into getting tossed is punished behind closed doors.
Something indeed has to be done. I suggest evaluating every umpire in MLB and letting go of those who aren't doing their jobs correctly. We just saw a perfect example of one tonight.

JermaineDye05
06-02-2010, 08:59 PM
And after Jackson preserved it with that phenomenal catch, that's just horrible. It's horrible regardless but even moreso when I think of the catch.

sox1970
06-02-2010, 09:00 PM
I....I....can't believe that ****.

SephClone89
06-02-2010, 09:00 PM
I'm speechless. This is awful. Oh my God.

PKalltheway
06-02-2010, 09:00 PM
Bruce Foeming would beg to differ. THAT might be the worst call, 3-2 count and he gives the guy a walk.

Even though that does suck, at least Pappas still got the no-hitter. Galarraga didn't even get that.

theamb
06-02-2010, 09:02 PM
I don't know about that. The guy has to earn the perfect game. I wouldn't want it to come down to a bang-bang play.

That being said, it wasn't even close. He was out by sooo much.

Well, he did earn a perfect game. To everyone except that umpire.

Seeing as that 9th inning was shown on ESPN, MLB might be forced to overturn the ruling.

Still doesn't make up for it though

DirtySox
06-02-2010, 09:02 PM
Well, he did earn a perfect game. To everyone except that umpire.

Seeing as that 9th inning was shown on ESPN, MLB might be forced to overturn the ruling.

Still doesn't make up for it though

Can MLB do that?

getonbckthr
06-02-2010, 09:03 PM
I can't remember seeing something in sports truly made me sick to my stomach, that did.

thomas35forever
06-02-2010, 09:03 PM
Can MLB do that?
Well they overruled the call on the George Brett pine tar incident.

WhiteSox5187
06-02-2010, 09:04 PM
Can MLB do that?

I don't think they can.

sox1970
06-02-2010, 09:05 PM
Well they overruled the call on the George Brett pine tar incident.

There was rule violation in that case. This is just an umpire's judgment call. It can't be reversed. I don't even think it can be protested. It's just a bad call.

twentywontowin
06-02-2010, 09:05 PM
Can we imagine what the call would be if Hawk was in the booth and this was the White Sox?

theamb
06-02-2010, 09:06 PM
Can MLB do that?

They might have to make an exception

It was the final out of the game, broadcasted on worldwide tv and the call wasn't close.

Even Indians players looked stunned

GoGoCrede
06-02-2010, 09:07 PM
Can we imagine what the call would be if Hawk was in the booth and this was the White Sox?

My ears would still be ringing.

JermaineDye05
06-02-2010, 09:07 PM
Jeez watching the replay and looking at Joyce's right arm, it looked like he was gonna call him out initially too.

pearso66
06-02-2010, 09:08 PM
Jeez watching the replay and looking at Joyce's right arm, it looked like he was gonna call him out initially too.

I saw that too, but during the actual play. I started cheering then that turned to disgust. You saw it on Cabrera's face too.

theamb
06-02-2010, 09:13 PM
And they're still talking about during the current game on ESPN

I think something might happen

Whether that might be having the call overturned or instant replay, I don't know

thomas35forever
06-02-2010, 09:14 PM
And they're still talking about during the current game on ESPN

I think something might happen

Whether that might be having the call overturned or instant replay, I don't know
Something better happen. If Selig just brushes this off as nothing, it's a big "**** you" to everybody.

JermaineDye05
06-02-2010, 09:15 PM
And they're still talking about during the current game on ESPN

I think something might happen

Whether that might be having the call overturned or instant replay, I don't know

I know he should have had the perfect game, but right now it just seems wasted. I wouldn't want it to happen as a result of overruling it.

I mean the glory of it is gone.

I'd much rather prefer to see Joyce suspended or something.

thomas35forever
06-02-2010, 09:16 PM
I know he should have had the perfect game, but right now it just seems wasted. I wouldn't want it to happen as a result of overruling it.

I mean the glory of it is gone.
Maybe, but justice needs to be served. I don't care what happens. Something needs to come out of this. Regardless of what does, this is still a low moment in baseball history.

Brian26
06-02-2010, 09:17 PM
Can MLB do that?

They should not.

What kind on insane precedent does that set?

NDSox12
06-02-2010, 09:18 PM
Considering the circumstances, that has to be one of the worst calls in MLB history. At least in modern time, it is probably only surpassed by the Don Denkinger blown call in the '85 World Series.

twentywontowin
06-02-2010, 09:18 PM
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs291.snc3/28198_1482986712418_1166343111_1392991_4208440_n.j pg

JermaineDye05
06-02-2010, 09:19 PM
I feel bad for Galarraga and his family because Joyce just robbed them of one of those priceless moments. Baseball history aside, that would have been one of the high points in his LIFE let alone his career, and Joyce makes a boneheaded call like that? Shameful.

theamb
06-02-2010, 09:20 PM
They should not.

What kind on insane precedent does that set?

Trying to get the call right?

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/4278/hewasout.gif


Insane indeed.

MARTINMVP
06-02-2010, 09:21 PM
Watching Leyland's post-game press conference. Still says that Joyce is a good umpire and that everyone from the players, managers, writers and umps are all human. Another example as to why he is such a class act.

Brian26
06-02-2010, 09:22 PM
That ump though should be suspended.

No he shouldn't.

JermaineDye05
06-02-2010, 09:22 PM
Trying to get the call right?

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/4278/hewasout.gif


Insane indeed.

Yeah, but it's a slippery slope. What's to stop people from calling for a game to be thrown out because an umpire missed a called strike 3 or ball 4?

thomas35forever
06-02-2010, 09:22 PM
No he shouldn't.
You can't brush this off like nothing. Is that what you propose doing? Nothing?

Brian26
06-02-2010, 09:24 PM
Trying to get the call right?

Insane indeed.

Umpires get the calls correct 99% of the time, if not more.

Are we going to start going back in history now and changing game outcomes? Should we go back and replay the 2007 NL playoffs since there was a blown call in the Rockies/Padres extra inning game?

It was a mistake, but that's part of the game. You can't correct it at this point. That ship has sailed. If the umps would have met immediately after the play and talked about it, the call could have been reversed. It is too late now.

voodoochile
06-02-2010, 09:24 PM
They should not.

What kind on insane precedent does that set?

Well since it has no bearing on the outcome of the game and it was legitimately the final out of the game, why not overturn a blatant miscarriage of justice?

Edit: At the least they could review the scoring on the play and change it to an error and thus make it a no hitter. That does happen from time to time and would at least be a modicum of justice for such an obvious blown call.

Rohan
06-02-2010, 09:24 PM
No he shouldn't.

He should get his eyes checked at the very least.

Brian26
06-02-2010, 09:25 PM
You can't brush this off like nothing. Is that what you propose doing? Nothing?

What evidence do you have that he got the call wrong intentionally?

JermaineDye05
06-02-2010, 09:25 PM
Umpires get the calls correct 99% of the time, if not more.

Are we going to start going back in history now and changing game outcomes? Should we go back and replay the 2007 NL playoffs since there was a blown call in the Rockies/Padres extra inning game?

It was a mistake, but that's part of the game. You can't correct it at this point. That ship has sailed. If the umps would have met immediately after the play and talked about it, the call could have been reversed. It is too late now.

Or to take an example more of us can relate to, AJ's dropped third strike in 2005.

twentywontowin
06-02-2010, 09:25 PM
Umpires get the calls correct 99% of the time, if not more.

Are we going to start going back in history now and changing game outcomes? Should we go back and replay the 2007 NL playoffs since there was a blown call in the Rockies/Padres extra inning game?

It was a mistake, but that's part of the game. You can't correct it at this point. That ship has sailed. If the umps would have met immediately after the play and talked about it, the call could have been reversed. It is too late now.

Mistakes do happen, but this is gross negligence.

Rohan
06-02-2010, 09:26 PM
Or to take an example more of us can relate to, AJ's dropped third strike in 2005.

That replay didn't show the call wrong or right either way. This play is far easier to prove.

thomas35forever
06-02-2010, 09:26 PM
What evidence do you have that he got the call wrong intentionally?
None, but that doesn't mean nothing shouldn't be done, whatever that may be.

JermaineDye05
06-02-2010, 09:27 PM
Well since it has no bearing on the outcome of the game and it was legitimately the final out of the game, why not overturn a blatant miscarriage of justice?

Edit: At the least they could review the scoring on the play and change it to an error and thus make it a no hitter. That does happen from time to time and would at least be a modicum of justice for such an obvious blown call.

Galarraga was still robbed of the moment which is just as bad. I would think handing him the perfect game now would just be bittersweet. I as a fan would feel that way. I don't know what Galarraga's feelings would be though.

Pablo_Honey
06-02-2010, 09:28 PM
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/4278/hewasout.gif



Oh my God, seeing that change in Miggy's expression just breaks my heart :(: Wow, I'd hate to be a Tigers fan today.

theamb
06-02-2010, 09:28 PM
Umpires get the calls correct 99% of the time, if not more.

Are we going to start going back in history now and changing game outcomes? Should we go back and replay the 2007 NL playoffs since there was a blown call in the Rockies/Padres extra inning game?

It was a mistake, but that's part of the game. You can't correct it at this point. That ship has sailed. If the umps would have met immediately after the play and talked about it, the call could have been reversed. It is too late now.

Something tells me you wouldn't be so nonchalant if that happened to Mark last year

voodoochile
06-02-2010, 09:28 PM
Yeah, but it's a slippery slope. What's to stop people from calling for a game to be thrown out because an umpire missed a called strike 3 or ball 4?

You're not talking about changing the outcome of the game in any manner, merely the scoring of the game. If the next batter had walked and then the next batter hit a home run, you shouldn't review it, but nothing like that happened.

Brian26
06-02-2010, 09:29 PM
Well since it has no bearing on the outcome of the game and it was legitimately the final out of the game, why not overturn a blatant miscarriage of justice?

Edit: At the least they could review the scoring on the play and change it to an error and thus make it a no hitter. That does happen from time to time and would at least be a modicum of justice for such an obvious blown call.

Well, there was no error that occurred though. It would either be a base hit (because the runner beat it out) or the runner would have been out.

I don't disagree that it's a terrible call. The umpire blew it. Too late to change it now though.

GoGoCrede
06-02-2010, 09:29 PM
Oh my God, seeing that change in Miggy's expression just breaks my heart :(: Wow, I'd hate to be a Tigers fan today.

Me too. :(: I don't even care about the Tigers, but tonight I feel for them.

voodoochile
06-02-2010, 09:32 PM
Well, there was no error that occurred though. It would either be a base hit (because the runner beat it out) or the runner would have been out.

I don't disagree that it's a terrible call. The umpire blew it. Too late to change it now though.

If a player takes to long to feed the ball to the bag for an out, isn't that an error? I mean if you field a ground ball cleanly then never throw it to a base even though there's plenty of time, that could be called an error couldn't it?

thomas35forever
06-02-2010, 09:33 PM
Well, there was no error that occurred though. It would either be a base hit (because the runner beat it out) or the runner would have been out.

I don't disagree that it's a terrible call. The umpire blew it. Too late to change it now though.
All you would be doing is taking away the last at-bat and the hit. In fact, Donald himself should request that his hit be stricken from the record.

WhiteSox5187
06-02-2010, 09:38 PM
All you would be doing is taking away the last at-bat and the hit. In fact, Donald himself should request that his hit be stricken from the record.

It's a slippery slope. I don't think that there is anything that can be done about it. It was a bad call, I don't know if Jim Joyce is a good umpire or a bad one, but even good ones miss calls. It was a call that was missed at a rather critical time though.

getonbckthr
06-02-2010, 09:39 PM
Not to take anything away from Galarraga, but it figures just like Griffey was over-shadowed by McGwire, Sosa, Bonds and Clemens the day he retires will be over-shadowed by one of the biggest blown calls by an umpire ever.

chisox616
06-02-2010, 09:39 PM
I got really sad just looking at that play, a crushed feeling. I can't believe Galarraga's face, either, his smile makes this all very disappointing.

Brian26
06-02-2010, 09:40 PM
If a player takes to long to feed the ball to the bag for an out, isn't that an error? I mean if you field a ground ball cleanly then never throw it to a base even though there's plenty of time, that could be called an error couldn't it?

Miggy fed it pretty quickly though. There's no way you could call an error on him or the pitcher.

It's interesting that MLB Network is not showing any replays of the argument that took place after the play. I didn't see it live. Did Leyland come out and ask the umpires to gather and discuss the call? There's precedent established for overturning bad calls by the first base umpire in those situations (case in point, Kelvim Escobar's glove tag of AJ in the '05 ALCS when he had the ball in his hand).

My biggest beef here is with the people who want to go back and change the call after the game has ended.

getonbckthr
06-02-2010, 09:42 PM
Miggy fed it pretty quickly though. There's no way you could call an error on him or the pitcher.

It's interesting that MLB Network is not showing any replays of the argument that took place after the play. I didn't see it live. Did Leyland come out and ask the umpires to gather and discuss the call? There's precedent established for overturning bad calls by the first base umpire in those situations (case in point, Kelvim Escobar's glove tag of AJ in the '05 ALCS when he had the ball in his hand).

My biggest beef here is with the people who want to go back and change the call after the game has ended.
They did show a replay of what happened after the game. I don't condone what Detroit did after the game, however emotions definately took over.

theamb
06-02-2010, 09:43 PM
Not to take anything away from Galarraga, but it figures just like Griffey was over-shadowed by McGwire, Sosa, Bonds and Clemens the day he retires will be over-shadowed by one of the biggest blown calls by an umpire ever.

I can only blame Griffey for that as he should've retired already

Especially after dosing off in the clubhouse earlier this season

GoGoCrede
06-02-2010, 09:44 PM
Just saw the play for the first time. Utterly devastating. Fans, players - everyone looked defeated. Horrible.


What did Detroit do after the game?

Rohan
06-02-2010, 09:44 PM
Not to take anything away from Galarraga, but it figures just like Griffey was over-shadowed by McGwire, Sosa, Bonds and Clemens the day he retires will be over-shadowed by one of the biggest blown calls by an umpire ever.

This is very true. I didn't even think about that. Poor Griffey...

I can only blame Griffey for that as he should've retired already

Especially after dosing off in the clubhouse earlier this season

:rolleyes:

Brian26
06-02-2010, 09:46 PM
They did show a replay of what happened after the game. I don't condone what Detroit did after the game, however emotions definately took over.

I'm not talking about after the game. I'm asking about after the play (there were two outs and one more batter). Did anyone go out and argue the call?

getonbckthr
06-02-2010, 09:49 PM
I'm not talking about after the game. I'm asking about after the play (there were two outs and one more batter). Did anyone go out and argue the call?
Sorry mis-understood. Yes Leyland went out and argued. Then during the final hitter Joyce and Cabrera were exchanging words the whole at bat.

voodoochile
06-02-2010, 09:49 PM
It's a slippery slope. I don't think that there is anything that can be done about it. It was a bad call, I don't know if Jim Joyce is a good umpire or a bad one, but even good ones miss calls. It was a call that was missed at a rather critical time though.

Doesn't have to be a slippery slope. Baseball could make it very clear that because of the specific moment they are changing the scoring on the single play because:



It in no way affected any aspect of the game outcome
The fact it should have been the final out of the game.
Because it was a perfect game and should have ended as one

Then tell people they can expect similar results the next time something similar happens, but that it in no way opens the door for a lot of reviews and at no time is a call that leads to scoring going to be reviewed ever other than as currently allowed by the rules (HR replays) and neither will they be reviewing calls that happened earlier than the final out of the game.

theamb
06-02-2010, 09:50 PM
:rolleyes:

Griffey isn't the first guy to stick around too long

But this year is pretty much a sad end to his career.

I can understand him wanting to end his career in Seattle. But he should've taken the hint after barely hitting about the mendoza line last season

VMSNS
06-02-2010, 09:55 PM
I just watched it on MLB.com, and all I can say is....wow. Just.....wow.

Something NEEDS to be done about the current state of officiating in the MLB. It's almost embarrassing how bad it's gotten. It'd be one thing if it was a close play, but he was out by a full step. It wasn't close at all.

Jim Joyce should publicly apologize to Galarraga (if he hasn't already) for not only ruining his perfect game, but for making a mockery out of professional umpiring.

What a joke.

DirtySox
06-02-2010, 09:58 PM
http://a1.twimg.com/profile_images/190827556/jon_heyman_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman) SI_JonHeyman (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman)
RT @GlobeChadFinn (http://twitter.com/GlobeChadFinn) Galarraga keeps saying, "Nobody's perfect" in sticking up for Joyce. Doesn't get much more ironic than that. 2 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman/status/15293130843) via web

twentywontowin
06-02-2010, 10:03 PM
http://a1.twimg.com/profile_images/190827556/jon_heyman_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman) SI_JonHeyman (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman)
RT @GlobeChadFinn (http://twitter.com/GlobeChadFinn) Galarraga keeps saying, "Nobody's perfect" in sticking up for Joyce. Doesn't get much more ironic than that. 2 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman/status/15293130843) via web

Guy is all class.

chisox616
06-02-2010, 10:03 PM
You have to really come to respect Galarraga with the way he's been treating this travesty. Anyone else in that situation would probably be calling for blood, screaming at the umpire, but he was all smiles. Wow.

Oblong
06-02-2010, 10:05 PM
I.... am.... speechless.

Have you seen video from the locker room? They sound like they just lost game 7 of the world series.

I'm literally shaking.

canOcorn
06-02-2010, 10:05 PM
IMO:

Joyce doesn't/shouldn't get suspended, fined, ect. This single call should prevent him from touching the field in the post-season.

MLB needs to let the final result stand. They can't start going back after the game and this shouldn't bring more instant replay into the game. Sure, he blew the call, but we cannot start going down the road of reviewing everything. It's part of the game and Galarraga said he accepted Joyce's apology after the game....Said "we're all human, make mistakes and it's part of the game". Pretty classy on his part. It was a blown call, simple as that, and nothing disingenuous.

Madvora
06-02-2010, 10:05 PM
I just watched the video. This play wasn't even close. It's almost looks like he was paid off or something.

gregoriop
06-02-2010, 10:06 PM
"Most important call of my career and I kicked the **** out of it. I cost that kid a perfect game."

JermaineDye05
06-02-2010, 10:06 PM
I.... am.... speechless.

Have you seen video from the locker room? They sound like they just lost game 7 of the world series.

I'm literally shaking.

Shaking? I'd be foaming at the mouth.

gregoriop
06-02-2010, 10:07 PM
The Governor of Michigan has declared it a perfect game.


As governor, I'm issuing a proclamation declaring Galarraga pitched a perfect game! about 1 hour ago (http://twitter.com/GovGranholm/status/15290930845) via web

Brian26
06-02-2010, 10:09 PM
Doesn't have to be a slippery slope. Baseball could make it very clear that because of the specific moment they are changing the scoring on the single play because:



It in no way affected any aspect of the game outcome
The fact it should have been the final out of the game.
Because it was a perfect game and should have ended as one



If you do it here, where does it end? What about Milt Pappas?

sox1970
06-02-2010, 10:09 PM
Jim Joyce apologized to Galarraga after the game with tears in his eyes, and they actually hugged. That's pretty unbelievable. What's more unbelievable is that he called him safe on a play that close (but not really that close), in that situation. What a dummy.

twentywontowin
06-02-2010, 10:10 PM
If you do it here, where does it end? What about Milt Pappas?

Calling a ball/strike is strictly judgment. This is a blatant act of blowing your job.

GoGoCrede
06-02-2010, 10:11 PM
I.... am.... speechless.

Have you seen video from the locker room? They sound like they just lost game 7 of the world series.

I'm literally shaking.


Where is the locker room video?

theamb
06-02-2010, 10:11 PM
Guy is all class. If it's me, I'm waiting for Joyce in the parking lot. Actually, you don't even need to do that, it's Detroit.

http://www.chicagogigs.com/images/content/dane-cook_dane-cook_concerts_tickets_847873.jpg

DirtySox
06-02-2010, 10:11 PM
Jim Joyce apologized to Galarraga after the game with tears in his eyes, and they actually hugged. That's pretty unbelievable. What's more unbelievable is that he called him safe on a play that close (but not really that close), in that situation. What a dummy.

Supposedly the guy is very good umpire usually. I feel terrible for Joyce as well.

DirtySox
06-02-2010, 10:13 PM
Joyce will be on MLB Network with a statement or two very soon.

october23sp
06-02-2010, 10:14 PM
I'm speechless.

sox1970
06-02-2010, 10:14 PM
Supposedly the guy is very good umpire. I feel terrible for Joyce as well.

Yeah, I feel bad for him that he failed in that split second. I still don't know how you can start coming up with the arm to call him out and then call him safe there in that situation. It's a 3-0 game at home, 2 out, perfect game, bang-bang play...you call him out, and you get out of dodge.

voodoochile
06-02-2010, 10:15 PM
If you do it here, where does it end? What about Milt Pappas?

If future calls fit the exact criteria, then you overturn them too. That's not hard to do.

It's Dankerific
06-02-2010, 10:15 PM
How do you not just err on the side of the perfect game. I'd rather be known as the umpire who let the 27th out be "easy" for a perfect game than be the ump that blew it, if I HAD to be wrong.

Brian26
06-02-2010, 10:16 PM
Calling a ball/strike is strictly judgment. This is a blatant act of blowing your job.

Both scenarios involve judgment calls. The ump made a mistake tonight.

DirtySox
06-02-2010, 10:16 PM
Yeah, I feel bad for him that he failed in that split second. I still don't know how you can start coming up with the arm to call him out and then call him safe there in that situation. It's a 3-0 game at home, 2 out, perfect game, bang-bang play...you call him out, and you get out of dodge.

**** happens. It's very unfortunate. I referee hockey, and I've made my share of bad calls. It happens. It is just so extremely unfortunate it happened at this particular instance. It really is sad.

chisox616
06-02-2010, 10:18 PM
This has me thinking:

Would there be a 4 page topic arguing about instant replay and umpires had the reverse happened? For example, let's say Donald was SAFE by a mile, but Joyce called him out with a lenient call to preserve a perfect game.

I'd have to imagine not, maybe a little because it was Detroit, a rival, but I guess we won't know.

Brian26
06-02-2010, 10:19 PM
Guy is all class. If it's me, I'm waiting for Joyce in the parking lot. Actually, you don't even need to do that, it's Detroit.

By the way, chill out on this. Voodoo put a warning up last week after the Joe West nonsense.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2506436&postcount=6

WhiteSox5187
06-02-2010, 10:31 PM
Jim Joyce apologized to Galarraga after the game with tears in his eyes, and they actually hugged. That's pretty unbelievable. What's more unbelievable is that he called him safe on a play that close (but not really that close), in that situation. What a dummy.

Good for Jim Joyce. He is no Joe West. The only way I had hear of Jim Joyce before was when the Sox would go over who was umping where and I figured "Oh that ump probably has James Joyce on his birth certificate." I obviously overreacted when I suggested he should be fired, he might be a very good umpire, but even good umpires make mistakes and to own up and apologize like that takes a lot of guts.

Oblong
06-02-2010, 10:35 PM
Galarraga just said some pretty classy things. Emotions were high by everybody but you can bet nobody feels worse about it than Jim Joyce. Armando was a little ho hum about it. Says nobody's perfect, it was a bang bang play.

Did you happen to see Austin Jackson's catch for out #1? It rivaled the catch in Mark's perfect game last year.

doublem23
06-02-2010, 10:35 PM
That's ridiculous. Even if it's close, you give it to the guy.

Bingo. 26 up, 26 down. Boy, that guy had better beat the throw by a mile before you call him safe.

theamb
06-02-2010, 10:39 PM
Did you happen to see Austin Jackson's catch for out #1? It rivaled the catch in Mark's perfect game last year.

Sadly, it's a footnote due to what happened.

That was a terrific catch

Edit: That would've been the first perfect game in Tigers history.

Good lord..

voodoochile
06-02-2010, 10:44 PM
The Governor of Michigan has issued a proclamation that Galarraga pitched a perfect game. :D:

doublem23
06-02-2010, 10:49 PM
Further proof that baseball needs to seriously start testing these guys before they stick them in Major League Baseball games. It is seriously disappointing how bad umpires can be. That wasn't even close. Not. Even. Close. These old farts need to prove every year that they are capable of performing their job.

Oblong
06-02-2010, 10:50 PM
The official scorer should charge Cabrera with an error on the play.

october23sp
06-02-2010, 10:51 PM
Further proof that baseball needs to seriously start testing these guys before they stick them in Major League Baseball games. It is seriously disappointing how bad umpires can be. That wasn't even close. Not. Even. Close. These old farts need to prove every year that they are capable of performing their job.

How would they test though?

WhiteSox5187
06-02-2010, 10:55 PM
How would they test though?

Well, I thought that at the end of a game someone in the MLB office should watch it, go over the calls and see if they were right or wrong. If an ump at the end of the year has less than 70% right, he is fired. If he has more than 85% he should work the playoffs.

GoGoCrede
06-02-2010, 10:56 PM
Well, I thought that at the end of a game someone in the MLB office should watch it, go over the calls and see if they were right or wrong. If an ump at the end of the year has less than 70% right, he is fired. If he has more than 85% he should work the playoffs.


That would take forever.

Edit - Wait, I misread it. Never mind. It does sound interesting.

canOcorn
06-02-2010, 11:00 PM
Yeah, I feel bad for him that he failed in that split second. I still don't know how you can start coming up with the arm to call him out and then call him safe there in that situation. It's a 3-0 game at home, 2 out, perfect game, bang-bang play...you call him out, and you get out of dodge.

I will say in his defense that the ball hit the heel of the glove and rolled into a snow-cone. Sure, he had control and it was a blown call, but I believe he was going to call him out and then he incorrectly thought he didn't have control.

I agree with everything you said, but just giving my thoughts on why he raised his arm to call out and then called safe......

doublem23
06-02-2010, 11:00 PM
How would they test though?

Simulators, vision testing, reflex tests, etc.

If the State of Illinois can figure out a way to make my grandfather have to take a driving test every year to renew his license, MLB can figure out a way to make sure their umpires aren't a collection of morons.

voodoochile
06-02-2010, 11:01 PM
Well, I thought that at the end of a game someone in the MLB office should watch it, go over the calls and see if they were right or wrong. If an ump at the end of the year has less than 70% right, he is fired. If he has more than 85% he should work the playoffs.

85% is 15 errors every 100 calls. Assuming every ump gets to make an average of 10 calls per game not including balls and strkes, that's more than one per game. I'd hope we could hold them to a higher standard than that.

SephClone89
06-02-2010, 11:27 PM
Well, I thought that at the end of a game someone in the MLB office should watch it, go over the calls and see if they were right or wrong. If an ump at the end of the year has less than 70% right, he is fired. If he has more than 85% he should work the playoffs.

The problem is that you probably will rarely, if ever, find an ump with less than 70% accuracy. The vast majority of umpire calls are correct, especially if we're not talking balls and strikes. We just remember the bad calls.

slavko
06-02-2010, 11:35 PM
Was Joyce in the proper position for a 1B umpire?

kevingrt
06-02-2010, 11:36 PM
Since the Hawk's game was on I missed this but that was epic. Human's umpiring baseball should be done within the next decade.

Great move by Leyland chewing the **** out of Joyce too.

Coops4Aces
06-03-2010, 12:08 AM
It's quite simple. Bud Selig should just say, blown call, we are reversing it and giving him the perfect game, end of story.

thomas35forever
06-03-2010, 12:10 AM
It's quite simple. Bud Selig should just say, blown call, we are reversing it and giving him the perfect game, end of story.
Sad part is Selig doesn't have the cojones to do this.

kevingrt
06-03-2010, 12:11 AM
After hearing Joyce be interviewed on 97.1 The Ticket in Detroit I really feel bad for Jim Joyce. He obviously thought he had the right call and he knows he killed it. Tough day for Joyce. At least he is not as much of an *** as West. Really killed Galarraga's perfecto but at least all parties seem content with everything.

Tough night for everyone involved.

Real tough night for the Injuns.

soltrain21
06-03-2010, 12:15 AM
After hearing Joyce be interviewed on 97.1 The Ticket in Detroit I really feel bad for Jim Joyce. He obviously thought he had the right call and he knows he killed it. Tough day for Joyce. At least he is not as much of an *** as West. Really killed Galarraga's perfecto but at least all parties seem content with everything.

Tough night for everyone involved.

Real tough night for the Injuns.

It was far too close to "think" he was safe. On a close call he is out - and that really wasn't ALL that close. MLB umpires need to make that call a few times a game.

TDog
06-03-2010, 12:30 AM
The Tigers need to file a protest. There's no way he was safe.

Excuse me if this point has already been made, but I'm tired and don't want to read through the entire thread.

You can't protest a safe-out call or a ball-strike call. All you can do is whine for the rest of your life, as Milt Pappas has after he missed a perfect game with two outs in the ninth with a walk on a 3-2 pitch in 1972. The 1985 World Series (http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/1985/B10260KCA1985.htm)was decided on a bad call by an umpire. Everyone acknowledges this. It was never reversed, and that was a lot more important than someone pitching a perfect game.

WhiteSox5187
06-03-2010, 12:58 AM
Excuse me if this point has already been made, but I'm tired and don't want to read through the entire thread.

You can't protest a safe-out call or a ball-strike call. All you can do is whine for the rest of your life, as Milt Pappas has after he missed a perfect game with two outs in the ninth with a walk on a 3-2 pitch in 1972. The 1985 World Series (http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/1985/B10260KCA1985.htm)was decided on a bad call by an umpire. Everyone acknowledges this. It was never reversed, and that was a lot more important than someone pitching a perfect game.

To be fair, that call in 1985 was the first out of the ninth in game six. The Cardinals couldn't get the three outs they needed and then just completely folded in game seven.

BNLSox
06-03-2010, 12:58 AM
This hurts me as a baseball fan. What a shame.

TDog
06-03-2010, 01:06 AM
To be fair, that call in 1985 was the first out of the ninth in game six. The Cardinals couldn't get the three outs they needed and then just completely folded in game seven.

But the call tonight was a much closer call.

Bad calls have always been a part of baseball, and there have been more egregious calls in higher-stakes games. Maybe the Indians believed the home plate umpire was calling strikes out of the strike zone. It doesn't matter. There is nothing to protest.

Commissioner Landis never overturned anything to change the results of a game based on evidence of a bad call, and he was thought he was some kind of a god.

SaltyPretzel
06-03-2010, 01:10 AM
As much as it sucks, Galarraga has become a bigger part of baseball history than if he had pitched a perfect game.

Just looking at the bright side.

pipdipchip
06-03-2010, 01:15 AM
Yet another blown call tonight during the Twins game. Not as big as giving up a perfect game but was the game loser for the Twins. Runner was called safe at 2nd (close call but looked pretty safe) and because of that the runner was able to score at home and win the game in a walk off.

mbwhitesox
06-03-2010, 02:01 AM
Bingo. 26 up, 26 down. Boy, that guy had better beat the throw by a mile before you call him safe.

Exactly this. As an umpire in this situation you have to be mentally prepared to give the pitcher the call on any close play at first. What was this guy thinking? What an absolute disgrace to the game. :angry:

thomas35forever
06-03-2010, 02:29 AM
SportsCenter listed off a bunch of questionable umpire calls that have been made recently and boy, was it a long one. Selig better open his eyes, especially after this travesty.

soxnut1018
06-03-2010, 02:41 AM
Although Galarraga got robbed of a perfect game, I actually think people will remember this game more than the 2 actual perfect games so far this season.

Boondock Saint
06-03-2010, 04:05 AM
It's quite simple. Bud Selig should just say, blown call, we are reversing it and giving him the perfect game, end of story.

Even if he did do that, it'd be nothing but an empty "We all feel sorry for you" gesture. I'm not trying to pile on Joyce here, but he ruined what should have been a historic moment for Galarraga, the rest of the Tigers, the fans in the stadium, and every Tigers fan watching at home. You can't recreate that moment, that release that happens when the 27th out is recorded.

It's Dankerific
06-03-2010, 04:09 AM
But the call tonight was a much closer call.

Bad calls have always been a part of baseball, and there have been more egregious calls in higher-stakes games. Maybe the Indians believed the home plate umpire was calling strikes out of the strike zone. It doesn't matter. There is nothing to protest.

Commissioner Landis never overturned anything to change the results of a game based on evidence of a bad call, and he was thought he was some kind of a god.

Commissioner Landis had access to HD slow motion replay? good to know.

I'm not a fan of doing the wrong thing (or letting the wrong thing continue) because its tradition, in any realm, and I'll leave it at that.

BadBobbyJenks
06-03-2010, 05:38 AM
If only we had the technology to get these kind of calls right.

Fenway
06-03-2010, 07:25 AM
It's quite simple. Bud Selig should just say, blown call, we are reversing it and giving him the perfect game, end of story.

When he does that he also has to take away Kansas City's 1985 World Series win.

Don Denkinger blew a similar call in Game 6 that cost St Louis the series.

Look in a perfect game everybody needs to be - it didn't happen last night

Viva Medias B's
06-03-2010, 07:46 AM
It's quite simple. Bud Selig should just say, blown call, we are reversing it and giving him the perfect game, end of story.

He can't do it. As Mike Barnicle just said on "Morning Joe," there were 28 batters and the runner that reached base eventually got to third base. That is in the statistics of the game which cannot be reversed. As far as retoractively charging Miguel Cabrera with an error on the play, Gallaraga would only have a no-hitter.

ewokpelts
06-03-2010, 08:17 AM
watched the mlb quick pitch recap of the game. ump blew it big time

BadBobbyJenks
06-03-2010, 08:30 AM
When he does that he also has to take away Kansas City's 1985 World Series win.

Don Denkinger blew a similar call in Game 6 that cost St Louis the series.

Look in a perfect game everybody needs to be - it didn't happen last night

Edit:
Eh, nevermind it is practically the same except the Cards still had a chance to redeem themselves in Game 7

Fenway
06-03-2010, 08:32 AM
Huge difference. This was the final out of the game, Denkinger had nothing to do with the Cards getting dominated in Game 7.

Denkinger made Game 7 possible.

Hitmen77
06-03-2010, 09:03 AM
Or to take an example more of us can relate to, AJ's dropped third strike in 2005.

That's not even close to an obvious blown call. Even with the slow motion reply, the AJ call was still debatable.

If you do it here, where does it end? What about Milt Pappas?

Again, that was a lot closer of a call that last night's call. The argument in Pappas's case has always been that the umpire should have given him such a borderline pitch with one strike away from a perfect game. Incredibly, I thought I heard that the ump from that Pappas game says that he was totally unaware that a perfect game was on the line at the time.:o:

Last night's call wasn't even that much of a bang-bang play. That should have been a no-brainer for the ump even without the benefit of a replay.

g0g0
06-03-2010, 09:12 AM
If there ever was a time to make something right in MLB this is it. Perfect games (although we've seen a few in the last years) are an extremely rare feat. I don't think ANYONE would be mad about them making this right - Detroit still wins and the Indians still lose.

Galarraga is a class act with the way he's taken it though. Hats off to him.

Hitmen77
06-03-2010, 09:20 AM
It's quite simple. Bud Selig should just say, blown call, we are reversing it and giving him the perfect game, end of story.

He can't do it. As Mike Barnicle just said on "Morning Joe," there were 28 batters and the runner that reached base eventually got to third base. That is in the statistics of the game which cannot be reversed. As far as retoractively charging Miguel Cabrera with an error on the play, Gallaraga would only have a no-hitter.

The MLB Commissioner gave Roger Maris an asterisk for hitting 61 HRs in 1961. MLB also took away Andy Hawkins's no-hitter several years later when it changed the rules to say that only 9+ inning pitching efforts qualify.

Why can't the Commissioner put Galarraga's name in the record books under perfect games and put an asterisk acknowledging the umpire's blown call?

For years, Harvey Haddix's 12 innings of perfection was included in the official list of perfect games until MLB changed their rules in the 1990s and removed this game.
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/boxscore/05261959.shtml

Hitmen77
06-03-2010, 09:23 AM
Since the Hawk's game was on I missed this but that was epic. Human's umpiring baseball should be done within the next decade.

Great move by Leyland chewing the **** out of Joyce too.

:hawk
I'm glad to hear you were watching my game yesterday. :tongue:

asindc
06-03-2010, 09:38 AM
That's not even close to an obvious blown call. Even with the slow motion reply, the AJ call was still debatable.



Again, that was a lot closer of a call that last night's call. The argument in Pappas's case has always been that the umpire should have given him such a borderline pitch with one strike away from a perfect game. Incredibly, I thought I heard that the ump from that Pappas game says that he was totally unaware that a perfect game was on the line at the time.:o:

Last night's call wasn't even that much of a bang-bang play. That should have been a no-brainer for the ump even without the benefit of a replay.

If the ump was telling the truth, then I applaud him for not knowing. No reason for him to know, and it makes the call much more bearable.

doublem23
06-03-2010, 09:48 AM
If the ump was telling the truth, then I applaud him for not knowing. No reason for him to know, and it makes the call much more bearable.

I disagree, how can you be paying attention to a game and not realize a perfect game is in the works?

asindc
06-03-2010, 09:54 AM
I disagree, how can you be paying attention to a game and not realize a perfect game is in the works?

It is not the ump's job to know. There is a difference in being aware of the perfect game and needing to know that there is a perfect game. If the ump does not know, then it cannot possibly affect any call he makes. I rather that be the case than have the ump be unduly influenced by that knowledge.

doublem23
06-03-2010, 09:56 AM
It is not the ump's job to know. There is a difference in being aware of the perfect game and needing to know that there is a perfect game. If the ump does not know, then it cannot possibly affect any call he makes. I rather that be the case than have the ump be unduly influenced by that knowledge.

I'm not saying he needs to know, I'm just saying I find it impossible to believe anyone could be paying attention to a game (like an umpire should be) and not know that a guy has a perfect game into the 9th. I just don't see how that is possible.

RockJock07
06-03-2010, 10:09 AM
Since the Hawk's game was on I missed this but that was epic. Human's umpiring baseball should be done within the next decade.

Great move by Leyland chewing the **** out of Joyce too.

I understand that it was heat of the moment but Bonderman and Laird were just going balistic and instead of going over to Armando, they decided to go to Joyce to really say their peace. Bush league IMO but I guess understand.

I really want replay, the excuses need to stop for people against it. 99% of the time it will never be needed but umps should have the ability to check close calls if the situation calls for it. Last nights game took 1 hour and 44 min, they could have taken 2 mins to look at a replay.

Coops4Aces
06-03-2010, 10:14 AM
He can't do it. As Mike Barnicle just said on "Morning Joe," there were 28 batters and the runner that reached base eventually got to third base. That is in the statistics of the game which cannot be reversed. As far as retoractively charging Miguel Cabrera with an error on the play, Gallaraga would only have a no-hitter.

Yes Selig can. It's quite easy. He just doesn't have the balls to do it. Not only that, but I'll go as far as to say that Selig is more at fault for this travesty than Jim Joyce is.

tstrike2000
06-03-2010, 10:21 AM
At least Joyce apologized, which is unfortunately no consolation to Galarraga. Hat's off to Galarraga though to what should've been.

Bruizer
06-03-2010, 10:24 AM
I'd love to see them announce a reversal of the call during the game today so they can have the public celebration on the field that they missed out on last night.

:bandance::bandance::bandance:

g0g0
06-03-2010, 10:32 AM
The MLB Commissioner gave Roger Maris an asterisk for hitting 61 HRs in 1961. MLB also took away Andy Hawkins's no-hitter several years later when it changed the rules to say that only 9+ inning pitching efforts qualify.

Why can't the Commissioner put Galarraga's name in the record books under perfect games and put an asterisk acknowledging the umpire's blown call?

For years, Harvey Haddix's 12 innings of perfection was included in the official list of perfect games until MLB changed their rules in the 1990s and removed this game.
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/boxscore/05261959.shtml

AMEN! Make it right!!!

asindc
06-03-2010, 10:34 AM
Jim Joyce's Wikipedia page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Joyce

jdm2662
06-03-2010, 10:42 AM
http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/06/mlb-deciding-whether-to-review-blown-call.html

Let's see if Bud has the stones.

g0g0
06-03-2010, 10:43 AM
Jim Joyce's Wikipedia page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Joyce

Wow, that was fast! :o:

g0g0
06-03-2010, 10:46 AM
http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/06/mlb-deciding-whether-to-review-blown-call.html

Let's see if Bud has the stones.

I hope Bud does the right thing, but I can't believe people are so quick to have others fired. Like Leyland said, you have humans playing and calling the games and being human they make mistakes. You will have situations like this as long as those things are in play. MLB just has to expand replay or allow coaches challenges like football. Give them 2 challenges a game and leave it at that.

jdm2662
06-03-2010, 10:51 AM
I hope Bud does the right thing, but I can't believe people are so quick to have others fired. Like Leyland said, you have humans playing and calling the games and being human they make mistakes. You will have situations like this as long as those things are in play. MLB just has to expand replay or allow coaches challenges like football. Give them 2 challenges a game and leave it at that.

I reffed soccer for eight years on many different levels. In lots of cases, even in high school, I was the only official. so, it was impossible to get all the calls right when play happens 30 yards down the field. That's one issue. another issue is, in a close tight game, every call can make or break a game. There is just as much pressure on the official then there is on the player itself. If you blow a call, it can determine the game. Luckily, my most obvious missed calls never determined a game. There are the times when you know you are right, but yet, I wasn't suposed to make the call, etc. That can be annoying, too.

In this case, it just happened Joyce made a bad call, and he admited to it. Don't think for a moment he's regretting this. He's not an assphat like Joe West.

SephClone89
06-03-2010, 11:07 AM
When he does that he also has to take away Kansas City's 1985 World Series win.

Don Denkinger blew a similar call in Game 6 that cost St Louis the series.

Look in a perfect game everybody needs to be - it didn't happen last night

The difference is that the Denkinger call was not the last out of the game.

Reversing the Joyce call merely changes a one-hit shutout to a perfect game. The only difference it would make in the record books would be a drop in Donald's batting average, an extra putout for Galarraga, and an assist for Cabrera. If MLB were to make it clear that the inconsequential nature of the call is the reason why they have decided to overturn it, I would be okay with that.

soxfanreggie
06-03-2010, 11:13 AM
The difference is that the Denkinger call was not the last out of the game.

Reversing the Joyce call merely changes a one-hit shutout to a perfect game. The only difference it would make in the record books would be a drop in Donald's batting average, an extra putout for Galarraga, and an assist for Cabrera. If MLB were to make it clear that the inconsequential nature of the call is the reason why they have decided to overturn it, I would be okay with that.

I'm in agreement. Someone asked me if I think it will happen, and my response was "Well, it is Bud Selig we're talking about..." Hopefully Bud does the right thing.

HangWiffum
06-03-2010, 11:23 AM
if the MLB commissioner can reverse something like the "pine tar" incident, he can definitely reverse something like this.

SephClone89
06-03-2010, 11:27 AM
if the MLB commissioner can reverse something like the "pine tar" incident, he can definitely reverse something like this.

The problem with this argument is that the Pine Tar Incident was an example of a misapplication of the rules, not an (incorrect) judgment call.

seventyseven
06-03-2010, 12:24 PM
The problem with this argument is that the Pine Tar Incident was an example of a misapplication of the rules, not an (incorrect) judgment call.

Exactly. This is completely different. Leave last night's call as-is.

Coops4Aces
06-03-2010, 12:30 PM
Exactly. This is completely different. Leave last night's call as-is.

Honestly, I have yet to hear a good reason as to why Selig shouldn't overturn the call. I know Joyce wants him to do it.

downstairs
06-03-2010, 12:36 PM
He better be fired.

downstairs
06-03-2010, 12:42 PM
He can't do it. As Mike Barnicle just said on "Morning Joe," there were 28 batters and the runner that reached base eventually got to third base. That is in the statistics of the game which cannot be reversed. As far as retoractively charging Miguel Cabrera with an error on the play, Gallaraga would only have a no-hitter.

No, Selig can do whatever he wants. "Best interests of baseball" rule. He just doesn't use it like he can.

NASCAR has a similar rule, and they use it all the time. Do whatever it takes to make things right, even if it means instituting a rule mid-season.

I actually like Selig overall, but I wish he acted more like a dictator.

The sport obviously needs replay. If I were Selig, I'd say replay anytime the umps want it, from here on out. And I all expect big, close calls to be reviewed.

TDog
06-03-2010, 12:43 PM
if the MLB commissioner can reverse something like the "pine tar" incident, he can definitely reverse something like this.

That is a faulty analogy.

The pine-tar home run reversal followed a legitimate protest brought by the Royals arguing, not that there wasn't pine tar too far up the handle of the bat, but that the penalty for the infraction, which wasn't specified in the baseball rules, was that Brett would be called out. The protest on the penalty for having pine tar up the handle was upheld and the game was replayed from the point of the Brett home run.

That game had nothing to do with instant replay. Had the question not been about whether umpire Tim McClelland overstepped his authority by calling out Brett but been something that required the use of an instant replay to overturn, the play would not have been overturned.

This is about instant replay. The play that put the winning run on first base in Game 6 of the 1985 World Series, forcing Todd Worrell to pitch out of the stretch, was a bigger blown call than the one last night. Twenty years later, the White Sox didn't have to wait for umpires to review the close play at first for the last out in their World Series win to begin celebrating. I'm sure Milt Pappas would have loved to appeal his last two pitches to Larry Stahl in his near-perfect game in 1972. People tell me that the WGN repays for at least one of the ground outs in the ninth inning of Joe Horlen's 1967 no-hitter showed the runner beat the throw to first but was called out.

If you want to review what could have been the last out in Wednesday night's game after the fact, why stop there? Why not review all of the Indians outs, even if you don't want to review all of the ball and strike calls? Why not wait a day to certify any perfect game to make sure they are pure?

Wednesday night's bad call wouldn't even have changed who won the game.

downstairs
06-03-2010, 01:06 PM
That is a faulty analogy.

The pine-tar home run reversal followed a legitimate protest brought by the Royals arguing, not that there wasn't pine tar too far up the handle of the bat, but that the penalty for the infraction, which wasn't specified in the baseball rules, was that Brett would be called out. The protest on the penalty for having pine tar up the handle was upheld and the game was replayed from the point of the Brett home run.

That game had nothing to do with instant replay. Had the question not been about whether umpire Tim McClelland overstepped his authority by calling out Brett but been something that required the use of an instant replay to overturn, the play would not have been overturned.

This is about instant replay. The play that put the winning run on first base in Game 6 of the 1985 World Series, forcing Todd Worrell to pitch out of the stretch, was a bigger blown call than the one last night. Twenty years later, the White Sox didn't have to wait for umpires to review the close play at first for the last out in their World Series win to begin celebrating. I'm sure Milt Pappas would have loved to appeal his last two pitches to Larry Stahl in his near-perfect game in 1972. People tell me that the WGN repays for at least one of the ground outs in the ninth inning of Joe Horlen's 1967 no-hitter showed the runner beat the throw to first but was called out.

If you want to review what could have been the last out in Wednesday night's game after the fact, why stop there? Why not review all of the Indians outs, even if you don't want to review all of the ball and strike calls? Why not wait a day to certify any perfect game to make sure they are pure?

Wednesday night's bad call wouldn't even have changed who won the game.

You're pretty much right, technically. But to do nothing would just be an outrage. Give the kid the perfect game. EVERYONE wants it, including the ump.

Your other argument is a slippery slope argument. No one would ever expect anything in the past to be reviewed because this one call was reversed. No one asked for it, and its not going to happen.

If nothing else, at least we finally have a definitive argument for instant replay that should finally tip the scales. Its over purists- replay is necessary.

DirtySox
06-03-2010, 01:08 PM
http://a1.twimg.com/profile_images/518275190/olney_buster_m_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN) Buster_ESPN (http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN)

What an incredible moment just now, with Jim Joyce coming out to get lineup cards and getting at least some cheers -- and the (more) 2 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/15338797902) via web

http://a1.twimg.com/profile_images/518275190/olney_buster_m_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN) Buster_ESPN (http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN)

lineup card from Armando Galarraga. Don't know if you saw it, but a lot of emotion in Joyce's face; nice gesture by Leyland and the Tigers. 1 minute ago (http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/15338838443) via web

http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/714843793/ilio_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/OzzieGuillen) OzzieGuillen (http://twitter.com/OzzieGuillen)
Great job manager leyland you are class act send galarraga to the plate great baseball man 2 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/OzzieGuillen/status/15338927999) via txt (http://twitter.com/devices)

Coops4Aces
06-03-2010, 01:10 PM
I love the theory "Don't correct a wrong, because you can't correct them all"

Galarraga shouldn't get his perfect game cause Don Denkinger missed a call 25 years ago. :rolleyes:

doublem23
06-03-2010, 01:15 PM
Yes Selig can. It's quite easy. He just doesn't have the balls to do it. Not only that, but I'll go as far as to say that Selig is more at fault for this travesty than Jim Joyce is.

No, he can't. He can't magically make the 28th batter of the game disappear. As long as the "human element" is a cherished part of baseball, that's just the way it's going to be.

TDog
06-03-2010, 01:15 PM
You're pretty much right, technically. But to do nothing would just be an outrage. Give the kid the perfect game. EVERYONE wants it, including the ump.

Your other argument is a slippery slope argument. No one would ever expect anything in the past to be reviewed because this one call was reversed. No one asked for it, and its not going to happen.

If nothing else, at least we finally have a definitive argument for instant replay that should finally tip the scales. Its over purists- replay is necessary.

I don't want the kid to have a perfect game. It isn't that I didn't want him to have a perfect game. I don't think he should be given one now. And doing so would be the spineless course of action for Selig to take.

Galarraga made it through 8.2 innings without the nation questioning the umpires' calls that weren't being reviewed. From all accounts, he had a generous strike zone. Instant replay isn't just about giving the kid a perfect game. It is about changing the rhythm and pace of the game.

TDog
06-03-2010, 01:23 PM
I love the theory "Don't correct a wrong, because you can't correct them all"

Galarraga shouldn't get his perfect game cause Don Denkinger missed a call 25 years ago. :rolleyes:


That isn't the argument.

The argument is that the call Don Denkinger missed was far more important, and nothing was done about it. The Tigers even won the game with the call going against them.

And, really, you want to reverse the last play in the game and let stand the generous strike zone that Galarraga was granted all night?

Coops4Aces
06-03-2010, 01:37 PM
That isn't the argument.

The argument is that the call Don Denkinger missed was far more important, and nothing was done about it. The Tigers even won the game with the call going against them.

And, really, you want to reverse the last play in the game and let stand the generous strike zone that Galarraga was granted all night?

If it was up to me, a computerized strike zone would have been implemented years ago. And to answer your question, yes, just change the call. Everyone in the entire world knows he threw a perfect game, just make it official.

downstairs
06-03-2010, 01:41 PM
I don't want the kid to have a perfect game. It isn't that I didn't want him to have a perfect game. I don't think he should be given one now. And doing so would be the spineless course of action for Selig to take.

Galarraga made it through 8.2 innings without the nation questioning the umpires' calls that weren't being reviewed. From all accounts, he had a generous strike zone. Instant replay isn't just about giving the kid a perfect game. It is about changing the rhythm and pace of the game.

The pace of the game? That's just silly. First of all, I bet most games would have zero replay calls.

How long would a replay call take? Baseball is much less complicated in terms of calls than football. It took all of us 1 or 2 slo-mo looks to know the call was wrong. A guy in the booth would probably have already decided before the call to replay was made.

Leyland throws a red flag (or whatever), ump gives some official signal to replay, goes and puts a headset on... 10 seconds later, makes the out call.

You would slow the pace of SOME games maybe 1-2 minutes at most.

kobo
06-03-2010, 01:53 PM
That isn't the argument.

The argument is that the call Don Denkinger missed was far more important, and nothing was done about it. The Tigers even won the game with the call going against them.

And, really, you want to reverse the last play in the game and let stand the generous strike zone that Galarraga was granted all night?
Balls and strikes are an entirely different matter, though. There is video evidence Joyce blew the call at first. He even admitted himself after the game that he blew the call. Until there is some type of electronic monitoring of a strike zone then balls and strikes will never be argued.

If the call is reversed, what is the harm done? It won't change the outcome of the game, all it does is add someone to the history books. By reversing the call the league will then need to address the issue of instant replay in baseball beyond just home runs. I understand human element is part of the game, but at the same time when there is technology out there that can help correct a blown call then by all means it should be used. This isn't the 1930's anymore.

Coops4Aces
06-03-2010, 01:54 PM
My take on pace of the game is that the time wasted arguing like a couple buffoons could be instead used to review the call.

areilly
06-03-2010, 02:03 PM
Don't forget CC Sabathia's non-no hitter for Milwaukee.

seventyseven
06-03-2010, 02:20 PM
Honestly, I have yet to hear a good reason as to why Selig shouldn't overturn the call. I know Joyce wants him to do it.

Because it is entirely without precedent in a game that is over 110 years old? Is that not good enough?

Coops4Aces
06-03-2010, 02:22 PM
Because it is entirely without precedent in a game that is over 110 years old? Is that not good enough?

No, it's not.

I love the theory "Don't correct a wrong, because you can't correct them all"

Galarraga shouldn't get his perfect game cause Don Denkinger missed a call 25 years ago. :rolleyes:

TDog
06-03-2010, 02:32 PM
Balls and strikes are an entirely different matter, though. There is video evidence Joyce blew the call at first. He even admitted himself after the game that he blew the call. Until there is some type of electronic monitoring of a strike zone then balls and strikes will never be argued.

If the call is reversed, what is the harm done? It won't change the outcome of the game, all it does is add someone to the history books. By reversing the call the league will then need to address the issue of instant replay in baseball beyond just home runs. I understand human element is part of the game, but at the same time when there is technology out there that can help correct a blown call then by all means it should be used. This isn't the 1930's anymore.

Balls and strikes have a bigger effect on the game than calls at first. It goes beyond strikeouts and walks. Hitters fall behind and have to swing at pitches they shouldn't have to swing at. If you're going to call an honest strike zone, Halliday and Braden don't pitch perfect games. (Braden probably doesn't pitch a perfect game if he isn't pitching in Oakland with so much foul territory that is in play, but that is irrelevant to this argument.) Buehrle probably still does because he is pitching to contact.

The Tigers-Indians call has no effect on the pennant race. The call went against the Tigers and the Tigers still won.

The call at second that went against the Twins last night, which may or may not have been overturned if the game were stopped in extra innings while umpires reviewed the play for five to 10 minutes, could end up having a big effect on the pennant race.

If you don't review every call -- that goes for all sports -- you don't have instant replay. If you don't review balls and strikes in baseball, you don't have instant replay. And reviewing every play would not add to anyone's enjoyment of the game. It might not even shut up Harrelson, who might still find fault with the way a play was called or not on a replay.

What you had Wednesday night is a pitcher who benefited from human umpiring all night long and people are only calling for a review of one play to call him perfect.

Where was this outrage in 1976 when Ken Brett was denied a no-hitter by an official scorer in Anaheim on a ball that went through Jorge Orta's legs with two outs in the ninth? And an official scorer is allowed to change his scoring decisions up to 24 hours later. Don Drysdale, the Angels announcer, said he didn't see how the call could stand. But it did. The commissioner didn't change it.

voodoochile
06-03-2010, 02:46 PM
I don't want the kid to have a perfect game. It isn't that I didn't want him to have a perfect game. I don't think he should be given one now. And doing so would be the spineless course of action for Selig to take.

Galarraga made it through 8.2 innings without the nation questioning the umpires' calls that weren't being reviewed. From all accounts, he had a generous strike zone. Instant replay isn't just about giving the kid a perfect game. It is about changing the rhythm and pace of the game.

I for one am not arguing for wider use of instant replay, but I do think that you can make a case that under these specific circumstances (and ONLY these specific circumstances) reversing the ruling makes sense.

I don't want to review the Deckinger call because it wasn't the final out and at least in part due to the result of the call runs scored and the outcome of the game was altered. I'm not in favor of that kind of subjective use and like it or not, there were plently of opportunities for the Cards to win that series after the call was made including not allowing any runs to score after the blown call or not letting the game reside so deeply in their collective heads that they failed to show up for game 7. If I blame Deckinger for costing the Cards game 6 than I have to blame Bartman for costing the flubs their win and I don't. I don't think it's fair to blame Graffanino for making an error that was subsequently followed by a 3-run jack later in the inning of the series between Boston and Chicago in 2005 either.

The balls and strikes issue is a completely different issue, IMO because it's less cut and dried especially in the 70's when there were no computers evaluating strikes and balls as they are called.

This is a very limited one-time use of review to change an on-field ruling that in no way changed the outcome of the game or even the final score. It would strictly be to correct a box score and award a pitcher a special place in history and under those circumstances it's the right thing to do, IMO.

Iwritecode
06-03-2010, 02:51 PM
If you don't review every call -- that goes for all sports -- you don't have instant replay. If you don't review balls and strikes in baseball, you don't have instant replay. And reviewing every play would not add to anyone's enjoyment of the game. It might not even shut up Harrelson, who might still find fault with the way a play was called or not on a replay.

They don't review every call in football.

They ONLY review homeruns in baseball.

wilburaga
06-03-2010, 02:57 PM
Jonathan Sanchez lost a perfect game because Juan Uribe made a mistake. Galarraga lost one becuase an umpire did.

TDog
06-03-2010, 03:01 PM
They don't review every call in football.

They ONLY review homeruns in baseball.

That is why they don't have instant replay in football.

The NFL gives lip service to instant replay, tells the sheep that follow the sport that they have instant replay to assure the integrity of the game, but the rules still allow for flagrantly bad calls in critical points of a game to stand.

DirtySox
06-03-2010, 03:05 PM
http://a1.twimg.com/profile_images/190827556/jon_heyman_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman) SI_JonHeyman (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman)
there will be no reversal of call. 3 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman/status/15345211450) via web

JermaineDye05
06-03-2010, 03:05 PM
http://a1.twimg.com/profile_images/190827556/jon_heyman_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman) SI_JonHeyman (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman)
there will be no reversal of call. 3 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman/status/15345211450) via web



It sucks, but I think it's the right call.

To not reverse it that is (just to be clear), the umpire did blow the third out.

seventyseven
06-03-2010, 03:06 PM
No, it's not.

Well then if what you're arguing is the exception rather than the rule, I suppose it's up to you to explain why overturning the call is proper.

And "it's just the right thing to do" isn't a valid reason. That speaks of fairness. And if fairness was to be considered, it would expressly be in the rules.

khan
06-03-2010, 03:07 PM
http://a1.twimg.com/profile_images/190827556/jon_heyman_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman) SI_JonHeyman (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman)
there will be no reversal of call. 3 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman/status/15345211450) via web


Well that's really dumb.

I understand that MLB can't change calls that impact the outcome of the game.

But, in THIS case, a reversal would not change who won the game. On a limited basis, using an asterisk, I see no problem and no bad precedent set by doing the right thing with this ONE case.

JermaineDye05
06-03-2010, 03:10 PM
Well that's really dumb.

I understand that MLB can't change calls that impact the outcome of the game.

But, in THIS case, a reversal would not change who won the game. On a limited basis, using an asterisk, I see no problem and no bad precedent set by doing the right thing with this ONE case.

The glory of the perfect game is gone. I don't see the point in just giving it to Galarraga now.

theamb
06-03-2010, 03:27 PM
http://a1.twimg.com/profile_images/190827556/jon_heyman_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman) SI_JonHeyman (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman)
there will be no reversal of call. 3 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman/status/15345211450) via web


As usual, Selig is good for nothing.

You'd think this might lead to more use of instant replay. But with Selig at the helm, who knows?

MLB is still trying to grasp that we're living in the 21st century

Dibbs
06-03-2010, 03:31 PM
I like the idea, as someone said, where you get a challenge or two similar to the NFL.

Anyway, this may not work out too bad for Galarraga. Everyone knows he had the perfect game, so that is not in question. However, he is actually more famous because of the controversy. I guess that's the bright side of things.

sox1970
06-03-2010, 03:33 PM
I think Selig did the right thing. It's a slippery slope to make that reversal. The ump called him safe, and that's that. Nothing you can do.

Saracen
06-03-2010, 03:50 PM
As usual, Selig is good for nothing.

You'd think this might lead to more use of instant replay. But with Selig at the helm, who knows?

MLB is still trying to grasp that we're living in the 21st century
I think he did the right thing. You open a huge can of worms if you overturn this. Do I think there should be instant replay? Yes. But it's against the rules to overturn a judgment call. He made the right decision.

Coops4Aces
06-03-2010, 04:05 PM
The glory of the perfect game is gone. I don't see the point in just giving it to Galarraga now.

The only thing gone is the integrity of the game.

I guess I'm just furious that MLB hasn't gotten with the times. How hard would it be to have the umps review the play? Everyone in the entire world knew he was out after one replay, it took all of what, 5 or 10 seconds? But they continue to play the game as if nothing is wrong? Completely ludicrous.

BringBackBlkJack
06-03-2010, 04:18 PM
I don't see what the big outrage is over implementing a rule that allows for instant replay for plays that could potentially end the ballgame. It's a very limited scope (like the home run-only review rule) so I don't quite get how people want to ride the slippery slope to think it has to be some expansive rule change that changes the course of history. I think someone needs to step up and make that happen, pop an asterisk next to Galarraga's feat to denote that the game was what prompted the rule change and include him in the perfect game category. I think that's realistically as equitable as it can get.

voodoochile
06-03-2010, 04:36 PM
I don't see what the big outrage is over implementing a rule that allows for instant replay for plays that could potentially end the ballgame. It's a very limited scope (like the home run-only review rule) so I don't quite get how people want to ride the slippery slope to think it has to be some expansive rule change that changes the course of history. I think someone needs to step up and make that happen, pop an asterisk next to Galarraga's feat and include him in the perfect game category. I think that's realistically as equitable it can get.

I was about to type that force outs to end innings could be reviewed as well, but then the question comes up, "what about guys who are safe and get called out?" Then you start to get into the "flow of the game" issue where you have to decide what to do with the runners.

For example men on 1st and 2nd and two outs. A deep fly appears to be caught with the defender snatching it just before it hits the wall, but when you look at the replays, it's clear it hit the wall first. What do you do with the runners who stopped running when the out call was made?

It's for this reason that I don't support a wide use of replay.

Let's turn this around...

If in yesterday's game, the runner was called out but replays show he beat the throw and should have been safe at first, is that reviewable too?

I still think that overturning the call in this specific incident was warranted, but can see the other point of view.

If there was replay yesterday and as I suggested, the situation were reversed, should the umps check the call and interrupt the celebration and piss off the fans and after 3 minutes of checking replay make everyone pickup the game with a man on first and two outs?

g0g0
06-03-2010, 04:40 PM
If true I'm really disappointed in Selig. He had a chance to do right by both the ump (who admitted it was the wrong call) and Galarraga who was robbed of history. I don't think anyone would protest a change in the outcome. When you do something that's called "perfect" in a game you should get your recognition.

theamb
06-03-2010, 04:55 PM
I think he did the right thing. You open a huge can of worms if you overturn this. Do I think there should be instant replay? Yes. But it's against the rules to overturn a judgment call. He made the right decision.

Overturning the call can be debated

But if Selig had any logic, full instant replay would already be installed in MLB. So, in essence, he needs to share the blame with Joyce for blowing the call.

It took something this bad to force his hand and now will get together with his committee and "discuss" something that should have been done years ago.

It's not as if were living in the 1940's.

JermaineDye05
06-03-2010, 05:09 PM
giving Galarraga the perfect game now would be like giving Frank the 2000 MVP now. Yeah, Frank should have had it, but it's too late to do anything about it now. Overturning it would just be pointless.

BringBackBlkJack
06-03-2010, 05:23 PM
For example men on 1st and 2nd and two outs. A deep fly appears to be caught with the defender snatching it just before it hits the wall, but when you look at the replays, it's clear it hit the wall first. What do you do with the runners who stopped running when the out call was made?

Hmm.. interesting (and valid) point. I know it's not the exact same situation but umps already have to make judgment calls when it comes to fan interference issues, etc. in the outfield when determining if the runner would have scored absent the interference. Either the umps allow the runner to score or tell him to go back to 3rd. There isn't going to be an exact science to it by any means but I think in the event of an overturned call from an out to no out (as in your example), the umps could convene and justly award runners certain bases. My main point is that all of these ideas aren't exactly groundbreaking; they use elements that already in some form exist in the game.

I can definitely see both sides of the argument and I think both sides have valid reasons for their beliefs. I just think that while the fix may not be perfect, it's worth implementing to ensure that at the end of the day, the right call is made.

thomas35forever
06-03-2010, 05:27 PM
Selig really sucks. I knew this was gonna happen. He tries way too hard to protect the integrity of everybody involved with the league even when it's not deserved (Mitchell Report, anybody?).

If he can't reverse the call, at least put this in the record books with an asterisk next to it. Even small children and morons who saw the replay know it was the wrong call. The fact that nothing's going to come out of this (at least for the time being) is the worst part of all.

Selig, you blew it...again.

Craig Grebeck
06-03-2010, 05:29 PM
If true I'm really disappointed in Selig. He had a chance to do right by both the ump (who admitted it was the wrong call) and Galarraga who was robbed of history. I don't think anyone would protest a change in the outcome. When you do something that's called "perfect" in a game you should get your recognition.
No. No. No. He didn't throw a perfect game.

thomas35forever
06-03-2010, 05:31 PM
No. No. No. He didn't throw a perfect game.
He got 27 outs plus 1. That's perfect in my book.

...
06-03-2010, 06:14 PM
No. No. No. He didn't throw a perfect game.

Pretty sure I saw it. I just put my thumb over the figure of Jim Joyce on mlb.tv replay.

...
06-03-2010, 06:17 PM
What if this call had been made during the 1st inning of the game with the next 24 batters being retired?

Frankfan4life
06-03-2010, 06:20 PM
I want to applaud the Detroit players, particularly Galarraga, manager and fans for showing what true class is today. I would hate to see Jim Joyce's life come to ruin over the blown call yesterday. He is obviously truly sorry.

Even though some idiots threatened Joyce's family, I give the majority of Detroit's fans credit for practicing restraint and forgiveness for the dreadful mistake Joyce made. We're all human and at one time or another we wish we could take back something we did or said to hurt someone. I can only hope this lesson translates off the field as well.

WTG Detroit!!!!! :clap:

voodoochile
06-03-2010, 06:23 PM
Hmmmm... Perfect game or booby prize... perfect game or booby prize...

Okay, I'll take the booby prize...

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Armando-Galarraga-receives-a-Corvette-consolatio?urn=mlb,245508

doublem23
06-03-2010, 06:55 PM
No. No. No. He didn't throw a perfect game.

I can't believe how many people aren't grasping this concept.

Perfect game = 27 batters face. Galarraga faced 28 yesterday. I have proof.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/DET/DET201006020.shtml

voodoochile
06-03-2010, 07:29 PM
I can't believe how many people aren't grasping this concept.

Perfect game = 27 batters face. Galarraga faced 28 yesterday. I have proof.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/DET/DET201006020.shtml

There's this thing called "the spirit of the law". There's also "the court of public opinion". In both of those cases he actually did pitch a perfect game, but go ahead, site the rule book one more time and pull out the box score as proof. It won't change the fact that in many people's minds (most people's minds?) Galarraga actually did throw a perfect game yesterday, Jim Joyce, Bud Selig and the rest of you grinches notwithstanding.

It's the difference between viewing the game with your brain and your heart...

Craig Grebeck
06-03-2010, 07:34 PM
There's this thing called "the spirit of the law". There's also "the court of public opinion". In both of those cases he actually did pitch a perfect game, but go ahead, site the rule book one more time and pull out the box score as proof. It won't change the fact that in many people's minds (most people's minds?) Galarraga actually did throw a perfect game yesterday, Jim Joyce, Bud Selig and the rest of you grinches notwithstanding.

It's the difference between viewing the game with your brain and your heart...
Grinches? Figures in this analogy someone calling for Selig to set a dangerous, awful precedent for the sake of humanity would make an analogy that would cast them as children.

Spare me the sob story. As someone said very early: umps have to be perfect in a perfect game. It's why they're so rare. Shed a tear and move on. The game is bigger than this silliness.

...
06-03-2010, 07:40 PM
I can't believe how many people aren't grasping this concept.

Perfect game = 27 batters face. Galarraga faced 28 yesterday. I have proof.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/DET/DET201006020.shtml


You can face the minimum 27 and still not get a perfect game.

voodoochile
06-03-2010, 07:41 PM
Grinches? Figures in this analogy someone calling for Selig to set a dangerous, awful precedent for the sake of humanity would make an analogy that would cast them as children.

Spare me the sob story. As someone said very early: umps have to be perfect in a perfect game. It's why they're so rare. Shed a tear and move on. The game is bigger than this silliness.

Children? I didn't call anyone a child.

Love the over the top hyperbole by the way... Dangerous and awful? Why? Spare me the slippery slope nonsense. I'm not advocating any rule changes that affect outcomes of games in any manner. I still think that due to the very specific circumstances surrounding this particular situation, a case can be made to overturn the bad call.

However, I'm willing to change a part of my post, perhaps the people waving the rule book and box scores aren't Grinches, Scrooges perhaps is a better fit... BAH HUMBUG! It's dangerous and awful to right this injustice...

:rolleyes:

theamb
06-03-2010, 07:46 PM
Grinches? Figures in this analogy someone calling for Selig to set a dangerous, awful precedent for the sake of humanity would make an analogy that would cast them as children.

Spare me the sob story. As someone said very early: umps have to be perfect in a perfect game. It's why they're so rare. Shed a tear and move on. The game is bigger than this silliness.

:rolleyes:

And you would be blowing a gasket if that happened to us last season.

Let me know when Bud Selig stops hiding behind the past and embraces the future.

Craig Grebeck
06-03-2010, 07:47 PM
Children? I didn't call anyone a child.

Love the over the top hyperbole by the way... Dangerous and awful? Why? Spare me the slippery slope nonsense. I'm not advocating any rule changes that affect outcomes of games in any manner. I still think that due to the very specific circumstances surrounding this particular situation, a case can be made to overturn the bad call.

However, I'm willing to change a part of my post, perhaps the people waving the rule book and box scores aren't Grinches, Scrooges perhaps is a better fit... BAH HUMBUG! It's dangerous and awful to right this injustice...

:rolleyes:
Perhaps Selig should weigh in on the Twins game, since that call actually, you know, mattered.

Part of what makes a perfect game so special is that it happens so rarely. Lots of things have to go right. This one didn't.

BadBobbyJenks
06-03-2010, 07:52 PM
After thinking about it Galarraga is going to be remembered far longer than most guys who threw a perfect game. How many guys can you name before you were born? How many can you name in the 90's?

http://www.sporcle.com/games/mlbperfectgames.php

I will remember Galarraga long before I ever come up with the name Dallas Braden.

Hopefully this leads to some larger form of replay, but you can't change this after the fact.

Everyone is upset that Galarraga is going to be robbed of something historic, but actually he did something no one will ever do again.

voodoochile
06-03-2010, 07:53 PM
Perhaps Selig should weigh in on the Twins game, since that call actually, you know, mattered.

Part of what makes a perfect game so special is that it happens so rarely. Lots of things have to go right. This one didn't.

This one should have is the point and again, I'm not in favor of expanding replay or on having outcomes overturned. Perhaps they could do fair/foul on ground rule doubles like they do on HR, but other than that, no.

That's the point. I'm not interested in seeing any changes to the game, but I think Galarraga deserves his moment in the sun and since that can be done without affecting the outcome of the game, the standings, the pennant race or even the number of runs scored, then I don't see why it would be "dangerous and awful" to do it...

Craig Grebeck
06-03-2010, 07:55 PM
This one should have is the point and again, I'm not in favor of expanding replay or on having outcomes overturned. Perhaps they could do fair/foul on ground rule doubles like they do on HR, but other than that, no.

That's the point. I'm not interested in seeing any changes to the game, but I think Galarraga deserves his moment in the sun and since that can be done without affecting the outcome of the game, the standings, the pennant race or even the number of runs scored, then I don't see why it would be "dangerous and awful" to do it...
Because the game already happened. It's over. It's done. It's not little league. Editing a box score is not a good idea.

theamb
06-03-2010, 08:00 PM
Perhaps Selig should weigh in on the Twins game, since that call actually, you know, mattered.

Part of what makes a perfect game so special is that it happens so rarely. Lots of things have to go right. This one didn't.

Perhaps if Selig introduced instant replay years ago, like every other damn sports league, this thread wouldn't exist and BOTH those important calls would have been made correctly.

But hey...this is the same guy who had to be dragged kicking and screaming just to incorporate replay for home runs.

How long until Selig requests all team jerseys to be reduced to this:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5KQbD2fCCxw/SaHOcOFqUEI/AAAAAAAACcU/3PSHAy93C6A/s320/conanball.JPG


Fits in with his out of date philosophy

voodoochile
06-03-2010, 08:01 PM
Because the game already happened. It's over. It's done. It's not little league. Editing a box score is not a good idea.

Why?

Edit: And I'll add that the fact it's not little league is all the more reason to change it. Down the road Galarraga's pay might be higher if he were to be credited with the perfect game. It's a fact he could point to in arbitration hearings for example.

Brian26
06-03-2010, 08:04 PM
http://a1.twimg.com/profile_images/190827556/jon_heyman_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman) SI_JonHeyman (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman)
there will be no reversal of call. 3 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman/status/15345211450) via web



I'm glad the correct decision was made for the integrity of the sport. As I said last night, reversing the call would set an ugly precedent.

Also, one last thought on the situation:

As much as everyone claims it was an obvious blown call, it was much more of a bang-bang play in real time than anyone seems willing to admit. Watching the replay of it in real time, the Tigers announcers did not make a big deal about it until the replay was shown. The Tigers players did not make a huge deal about it, and it seems Leyland really only got hot after seeing the replay in the dugout before the next out was recorded.

The replay has been drilled into everyone's mind because it's been shown hundreds and hundreds of times on MLB Network and ESPN, and because of that, the magnitude of the mistake has been amplified. In real time, Joyce missed it, but it was much closer play than what history will allow us to remember.