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View Full Version : The WS Have a Star to Build Around


PhillipsBubba
05-28-2010, 09:34 PM
In an otherwise disappointing season, Alex Rios has emerged as a bonafide star. I realize he had a career before coming here, but watching him everday has been a pleasure.

He obviously worked hard to put last year's offensive nightmare behind him and his outfield defense is outstanding.

Whatever else happens this year, we have a excellent player to build around (along with Beckham, Danks and a few others).

theamb
05-28-2010, 09:45 PM
Wasn't Beckham the designated star last season?

Let's see how it plays out

Slappy
05-28-2010, 09:50 PM
With all due respect, myself and others were stupidly premature in declaring Beckham a star. He played not even half a season with us.

Rios is an All-Star and has been good his whole career. Let's not compare the two.

theamb
05-28-2010, 10:10 PM
No offense...but if Rios was so good, he would still be in Toronto

I hope he has fully rejuvenated himself but I'm not about to jump for joy just yet.

asindc
05-28-2010, 10:11 PM
Wasn't Beckham the designated star last season?

Let's see how it plays out

No, he was the designated up-and-coming young player who we hope to build around in the coming years. Nothing has changed in that regard.

Slappy
05-28-2010, 10:13 PM
No offense...but if Rios was so good, he would still be in Toronto

:fail:

twinsuck
05-28-2010, 10:19 PM
No offense...but if Rios was so good, he would still be in Toronto

I hope he has fully rejuvenated himself but I'm not about to jump for joy just yet.
If Roy Halladay was so good he'd still be in Toronto!!

asindc
05-28-2010, 10:20 PM
If Roy Halladay was so good he'd still be in Toronto!!

If Cliff Lee was so good, he would still be in Philly.

Crede24Thome25
05-28-2010, 10:24 PM
No offense...but if Rios was so good, he would still be in Toronto

I hope he has fully rejuvenated himself but I'm not about to jump for joy just yet.
He was and still is good, he just had a bad season.

jabrch
05-28-2010, 10:24 PM
No offense...but if Rios was so good, he would still be in Toronto

I hope he has fully rejuvenated himself but I'm not about to jump for joy just yet.

yeah - why jump for joy about things that look good when you have such great options...like complaining about other crap...

BleacherBandit
05-28-2010, 11:34 PM
Just an FYI but Alex Rios is 29. It's not like we've got a Jason Heyward on our hands to build around. But I agree, I'm very impressed and satisfied with Rios.

DumpJerry
05-29-2010, 12:19 AM
No offense...but if Rios was so good, he would still be in Toronto
It was called a salary dump. The quality of the players being let go was not the relevant factor in the decision whom to let go, it was the size of the contract. Yes, size did matter.

jabrch
05-29-2010, 12:28 AM
Just an FYI but Alex Rios is 29. It's not like we've got a Jason Heyward on our hands to build around. But I agree, I'm very impressed and satisfied with Rios.


waaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!

Zakath
05-29-2010, 12:46 AM
After having a 13-game hitting streak earlier in the season, he's now on another 8-game hitting streak.

Right now, he's on a pace to better his best years in Toronto (2006 and 2007).

LITTLE NELL
05-29-2010, 06:19 AM
Rios is not a superstar but he has the five tools that make up a superstar:
Hit
Hit with power
Run
Catch
Throw

Frater Perdurabo
05-29-2010, 08:03 AM
Rios is not a superstar but he has the five tools that make up a superstar:
Hit
Hit with power
Run
Catch
Throw

I agree.

I don't think he is a "cornerstone" player like Frank Thomas was, and I think his numbers might tail off to his career averages (which are still very very good), but he is the most complete player the Sox have had since Harold Baines, before his knees got hurt.

Long term, Rios, Quentin and Beckham need to be the offensive core.

WSox597
05-29-2010, 08:24 AM
Frater, I know what you're driving at with the term 'cornerstone', but Rios would be closer to that than Frank Thomas was.

Thomas was a great hitter, no doubt about it, as he would say. LOL

But, he didn't appear to have the other three tools you mentioned. He was mostly a DH, with limited glove skills. I also don't remember him running very fast, probably due to his size.

Alex Rios does have the traditional five tools, last year was an aberration in his career. I like the comparison to Baines, he was an underrated player before he got hurt.

Frater Perdurabo
05-29-2010, 08:47 AM
Frater, I know what you're driving at with the term 'cornerstone', but Rios would be closer to that than Frank Thomas was.

Thomas was a great hitter, no doubt about it, as he would say. LOL

But, he didn't appear to have the other three tools you mentioned. He was mostly a DH, with limited glove skills. I also don't remember him running very fast, probably due to his size.

Alex Rios does have the traditional five tools, last year was an aberration in his career. I like the comparison to Baines, he was an underrated player before he got hurt.

Good discussion!

I really like Rios and am glad he's on the Sox. I've always wanted the Sox to have a 5-tool CF.

I set a very high bar for "cornerstone." I don't think a championship team necessarily needs a cornerstone, however. I don't think the 2005 Sox had such a player, and I don't think Paulie, for example, is or ever was such a player.

To me, a cornerstone is a player whose absence would cripple the team. Take Jeter away from the 96-00 Yankees, and they are not the same. Take Frank off the 93 or 94 Sox, and they don't win the division.

kufram
05-29-2010, 09:15 AM
After the last few years of not having a bona fide centerfielder (ok, they had some guys that could catch the ball... but that was IT) the White Sox can thank their GM for taking an unpopular chance with Alex Rios and taking the flak when a lot of people wanted Rios gone because he didn't produce immediately at the end of last year.

I like Rios. He quietly gets the job done.

Frater Perdurabo
05-29-2010, 11:25 AM
I like Rios. He quietly gets the job done.

Again, a lot like pre-injury Baines. :)

kufram
05-29-2010, 11:44 AM
Plus I think Rios could get even better in Center. He's done a great job but is bound to get to know the home field better as time passes and feels he can take chances.

DaveFeelsRight
05-29-2010, 11:46 AM
remember when everyone wanted his head on a stick after last season? and that's why you never jump to conclusions.

konerko 14
05-29-2010, 11:51 AM
No offense...but if Rios was so good, he would still be in Toronto

I hope he has fully rejuvenated himself but I'm not about to jump for joy just yet.


:rolleyes:, Toronto didn't want to pay him all that money

theamb
05-29-2010, 01:36 PM
and that's why you never jump to conclusions.

Especially with only 48 games into the 2010 season

Rohan
05-29-2010, 01:36 PM
remember when everyone wanted his head on a stick after last season? and that's why you never jump to conclusions.

:clap:

PalehosePlanet
05-29-2010, 01:51 PM
He's the best all-around CF we've had since Chet Lemon. I'm very glad he's here.

And yes, as DaveFeelsRight stated, I remember at least half the people on this board trying to convince me that since he had a rotten two months to finish the season last year, that he suddenly sucked. After all, we are the kings of the here-and-now on this board, so it didn't surprise me.

Thanks Alex for proving us right, and jamming it up the naysayers asses!!

Daver
05-29-2010, 02:00 PM
After the last few years of not having a bona fide centerfielder (ok, they had some guys that could catch the ball... but that was IT) the White Sox can thank their GM for taking an unpopular chance with Alex Rios and taking the flak when a lot of people wanted Rios gone because he didn't produce immediately at the end of last year.

I like Rios. He quietly gets the job done.

Saying Brian Anderson was not a bona fide center fielder is ludicrous.

munchman33
05-29-2010, 02:16 PM
Saying Brian Anderson was not a bona fide center fielder is ludicrous.

You can't DH center field. Hitting is an integral part of the position.

Frater Perdurabo
05-29-2010, 02:28 PM
Saying Brian Anderson was not a bona fide center fielder is ludicrous.

You can't DH center field. Hitting is an integral part of the position.

Unfortunately, for the Sox, hitting seems to have been the ONLY qualification for playing any position on the team.

The problem is that the players then fail to hit very well. (Teahen, Quentin, etc.)

kufram
05-29-2010, 02:51 PM
Saying Brian Anderson was not a bona fide center fielder is ludicrous.

Umm.. how's he doing at that position now?

Daver
05-29-2010, 06:01 PM
You can't DH center field. Hitting is an integral part of the position.

Rating a players defensive skills on his offensive performance is an extremely obtuse approach to talent evaluation, but coming from you it is understandable.

Craig Grebeck
05-29-2010, 06:08 PM
Rating a players defensive skills on his offensive performance is an extremely obtuse approach to talent evaluation, but coming from you it is understandable.
Holy reading comprehension batman.

I think by "bona fide" the OP meant a player with offensive and defensive chops.

SephClone89
05-29-2010, 06:19 PM
Holy reading comprehension batman.

I think by "bona fide" the OP meant a player with offensive and defensive chops.

That's exactly what I got out of it.

jabrch
05-29-2010, 06:31 PM
Saying Brian Anderson was not a bona fide center fielder is ludicrous.

As ludicrous as proposing that he was a good everyday player.

HE COULDN'T HIT.

There's very little room in the game anymore for OFs who can't hit. And you can't untie the hitter from the fielder.

Teams are more willing to take a shot with a guy who has proven he can hit and play average D than a guy who has a good glove, but has proven unable to hit.

Daver
05-29-2010, 07:29 PM
Holy reading comprehension batman.

I think by "bona fide" the OP meant a player with offensive and defensive chops.

Sorry, I don't buy into that philosophy at all, a lot of people like to slot positions based on offensive numbers, but to me that is a pure fantasy baseball approach to talent evaluation. A players defensive skills are not reduced by his offensive skills, his overall value as a player is reduced, but to dismiss obvious talent on defense because of a lack of offense is obtuse, and a very piss poor way to evaluate overall talent.

Offensive shortcomings can be overcome if the player is willing to work on it and you have the right coaching in place to develop talent, as opposed to the White Sox system of promoting players simply because they can hit at whatever level they are at, ala Joe Borchard and Brian Anderson.

SephClone89
05-29-2010, 07:32 PM
Sorry, I don't buy into that philosophy at all, a lot of people like to slot positions based on offensive numbers, but to me that is a pure fantasy baseball approach to talent evaluation. A players defensive skills are not reduced by his offensive skills, his overall value as a player is reduced, but to dismiss obvious talent on defense because of a lack of offense is obtuse, and a very piss poor way to evaluate overall talent.

Offensive shortcomings can be overcome if the player is willing to work on it and you have the right coaching in place to develop talent, as opposed to the White Sox system of promoting players simply because they can hit at whatever level they are at, ala Joe Borchard and Brian Anderson.

I think the failure to communicate here is over the word "center fielder."

You are interpreting it to be purely defensive, which is an understandable position. But others are speaking of it as a complete package of ballplayer. It all depends on the usage, but "good center fielder" does not necessarily refer exclusively to defense.

Craig Grebeck
05-29-2010, 08:36 PM
Sorry, I don't buy into that philosophy at all, a lot of people like to slot positions based on offensive numbers, but to me that is a pure fantasy baseball approach to talent evaluation. A players defensive skills are not reduced by his offensive skills, his overall value as a player is reduced, but to dismiss obvious talent on defense because of a lack of offense is obtuse, and a very piss poor way to evaluate overall talent.

Offensive shortcomings can be overcome if the player is willing to work on it and you have the right coaching in place to develop talent, as opposed to the White Sox system of promoting players simply because they can hit at whatever level they are at, ala Joe Borchard and Brian Anderson.
You're missing the point.

kufram
05-30-2010, 04:21 AM
I meant to be paying Alex Rios respect, not disrespecting any other player. I didn't have just BA in mind either. It was meant to be a positive post. My second post in answer to Daver was uncalled for and I apologize. I got caught up in the whole WSI negative thing there for a second.

Rios is the complete package so far this year, in my opinion. He can do all of the things I think a team needs from a centerfielder. Plus there is room for defensive improvement. Others have been able to play the position. In fact D. Wise played a very good centerfield. But Rios brings a lot more.

When you have the record we have so far this season any positive is a good thing to recognize.

shes
05-30-2010, 05:21 PM
I'm loving Alex Rios right now, but wow this is ridiculous. We're not even 1/3 of the way through the season. Rios is outperforming his career bests in every single category; to expect it to continue is just nuts. Extraordinarily rare is the player who has cumulatively been an MLB-average OF for 7 years and then becomes and sustains himself as a tier-1 OF. A regression toward the mean is more likely than anything else, all things considered. I hope I'm wrong, but if the White Sox are going to be building around Alex Rios, it'll be a sad state of affairs.

I don't mean to sound like a downer, but we've been burned before when prematurely anointing guys like Alexei, TCQ, Beckham, etc., as future all-stars/superstars. They may still all become great players, but a small sample size (even when that sample size is one season) can be very misleading.

Milw
05-31-2010, 09:51 PM
remember when everyone wanted his head on a stick after last season? and that's why you never jump to conclusions.
You mean like 98% of the people on WSI anytime anything goes sort of bad? Yeah.

tstrike2000
06-01-2010, 08:38 AM
No offense...but if Rios was so good, he would still be in Toronto

I hope he has fully rejuvenated himself but I'm not about to jump for joy just yet.

Not really. They realized they gave Rios a bad contract and we offered to take over that salary, so they couldn't pass that up.

munchman33
06-01-2010, 12:15 PM
Rating a players defensive skills on his offensive performance is an extremely obtuse approach to talent evaluation, but coming from you it is understandable.

Hey, that's not nice! :mad:

I'm one of the few people on here that agrees with you that defense is just as important. I'm just saying you can't give one up for the other, either direction.

Craig Grebeck
06-01-2010, 12:20 PM
Hey, that's not nice! :mad:

I'm one of the few people on here that agrees with you that defense is just as important. I'm just saying you can't give one up for the other, either direction.
Well, I think you can, but the amount of sacrifice depends on the defensive value vs. offensive value. Adam Everett, for example, has been a bad hitter his entire career, but has one of the best gloves of the era. He would start on most teams in his defensive prime.

theamb
06-01-2010, 05:18 PM
Not really. They realized they gave Rios a bad contract and we offered to take over that salary, so they couldn't pass that up.

That, and the fact that Rios was horrible after recieving that contract.

Due to desperation, Kenny gambled and so far it has worked out

Daver
06-01-2010, 05:43 PM
Hey, that's not nice! :mad:

I'm one of the few people on here that agrees with you that defense is just as important. I'm just saying you can't give one up for the other, either direction.

Then how did Ozzie Smith stay in the league so long?