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jabrch
05-26-2010, 11:45 PM
I know some people gave up on this team already - I'm obviously not in that group. If we can split 4 at Tampa, given our June, we could easily run off a .666 streak in the 27 games in June. 3 vs Tex, 3 vs Cle, 3 vs Det, 6 vs Cubs, 3 vs Pitt, 3 vs Wash, 3 vs ATL and 3 vs KC...

There's not a good team on our schedule in June. Now we aren't (right now) a good team either - but we have the talent to be much better than we have been so far.

I don't know gang...but I sure as **** aint giving up.

Crede24Thome25
05-26-2010, 11:47 PM
I honestly can say this team isn't as bad as I thought, everyone is starting to hit besides Beckham and Quentin. With Minnesota's bullpen and Detroit's bullpen we could actually win the division if we pull ourselves together.

thomas35forever
05-26-2010, 11:47 PM
That's optimistic thinking, but I need a good showing by this team in Tampa if I'm going to get on that side.

GoGoCrede
05-26-2010, 11:48 PM
I've been happy with the recent streak we've been on - won 5 of our last 7, I believe. And today's win was huge.

June has us facing some teams we match up well against. And summer will be in full swing. I'm pretty optimistic.

I love summer baseball. And while this is probably an unpopular opinion, I love interleague play.

Zakath
05-26-2010, 11:50 PM
I know some people gave up on this team already - I'm obviously not in that group. If we can split 4 at Tampa, given our June, we could easily run off a .666 streak in the 27 games in June. 3 vs Tex, 3 vs Cle, 3 vs Det, 6 vs Cubs, 3 vs Pitt, 3 vs Wash, 3 vs ATL and 3 vs KC...

There's not a good team on our schedule in June. Now we aren't (right now) a good team either - but we have the talent to be much better than we have been so far.

I don't know gang...but I sure as **** aint giving up.

Except for Detroit, you're probably right. There isn't a good team on their June schedule.

Unfortunately, we haven't done well against "not good" teams this year...

Slappy
05-26-2010, 11:50 PM
3 vs Tex, 3 vs Cle, 3 vs Det, 6 vs Cubs, 3 vs Pitt, 3 vs Wash, 3 vs ATL and 3 vs KC...

Ok, nothing against those teams at all, because some of them have already shown they can beat us. But if after that stretch of games we're not in considerably better shape, it's gotta be that point where we know, right?

ilsox7
05-26-2010, 11:51 PM
They need to pull within a couple of games by the ASB. If they do that, we're in business.

twinsuck
05-26-2010, 11:57 PM
I wish I was optimistic. It is possible, the Sox could get it on track and possibly make a run at the division title. It's just this team right now, I can't see it happening. They're way to inconsistent.

BadBobbyJenks
05-26-2010, 11:58 PM
Im a little surprised. Been a while since I even bothered checking the standings.

GoGoCrede
05-26-2010, 11:59 PM
Im a little surprised. Been a while since I even bothered checking the standings.

Today was the first time I checked them in weeks. I can't even think about scoreboard-watching until we're back to .500, at least.

kittle42
05-27-2010, 12:01 AM
we could easily run off a .666 streak in the 27 games in June. 3 vs Tex, 3 vs Cle, 3 vs Det, 6 vs Cubs, 3 vs Pitt, 3 vs Wash, 3 vs ATL and 3 vs KC...

I appreciate your optimism, but fans of several (most?) of those teams are saying the same thing, too, and salivating at the chance of facing the Sox.

LITTLE NELL
05-27-2010, 06:12 AM
I was looking at the June schedule during Wednesday's game and almost posted the same thread. June is the month the Sox have to make hay and get back into the race otherwise KW will be burning the telephone trade wires in July. We need to at least split with the Rays, I will be at the Trop on Sunday cheering our boys on. This might be a good time to face the Rays as they just got swept by the BoSox.

soxinem1
05-27-2010, 06:57 AM
At this point the standings do not matter. This team has to start winning and not bother looking at who is ahead of them.

The problem is that they have not played well against crappy teams thus far, and some of the teams they face in June, like WAS and PIT, have had their moments. KC has given us fits, and the 2010 White Sox have not been able to duplicate a successfully winning pattern thus far regardless of who they are facing.

One game they hit, then they don't pitch.

One game they pitch, then they don't hit.

One game they field decently, then they don't score runs or pitch.

Then they have a game when they do not do anything right and get their asses handed to them on a platter.

The irony is that every commentator I have heard on the networks are puzzled why this team cannot win.

They do not have a killer instinct, key players are not consistently stepping up, and they continue to not fire on all cylinders. When you have three total black holes in the lineup at 3B, 2B, and C, favorable schedule or not, you will not win.

Many posters want to compare this team to the 1983 White Sox. I believe it is more accurate to compare them to the 1984 version.

The only things I can agree with in this thread is that they need to take advantage of this schedule and win, and if they don't, there will be many departing flights out of Chicago by former White Sox players in July and August.

g0g0
05-27-2010, 07:34 AM
I know some people gave up on this team already - I'm obviously not in that group. If we can split 4 at Tampa, given our June, we could easily run off a .666 streak in the 27 games in June. 3 vs Tex, 3 vs Cle, 3 vs Det, 6 vs Cubs, 3 vs Pitt, 3 vs Wash, 3 vs ATL and 3 vs KC...

There's not a good team on our schedule in June. Now we aren't (right now) a good team either - but we have the talent to be much better than we have been so far.

I don't know gang...but I sure as **** aint giving up.

I'm with you jabrch! I think we can still pull this season out. Keep the faith!

:sunshine:

harwar
05-27-2010, 09:11 AM
Yea, it's now or never .. june is a crucial month .. it's starts with Tampa .. they just got swept and used a lot of pitchers yesterday, and just like us, had a blowup with an umpire .. it will be interesting to see how both teams respond the next few days .. after the rays there's not a team that i don't feel confident about playing through the whole month of june

pythons007
05-27-2010, 09:18 AM
Optimism, hello old friend it's been forever since I've seen or heard from you!! I missed you!!

FielderJones
05-27-2010, 09:19 AM
I'll give up in August if the standings still suck, not May or June.

mantis1212
05-27-2010, 09:21 AM
I look to the 2003 season for some perspective:

Middle of June or so the Sox were 8.5 games back and by the beginning of September they were two games in first place. (Not sure what happened after that :redneck)

jabrch
05-27-2010, 09:28 AM
Ok, nothing against those teams at all, because some of them have already shown they can beat us. But if after that stretch of games we're not in considerably better shape, it's gotta be that point where we know, right?


Agreed...if we get to July, and we are not closer than we are today, then yes, that's when we know more... But if we can use this next 5 weeks against generally inferior opponents to get into shooting range, then there's no reason not to be optimistic, right?

This team STUNK in April. It has played 1 game under .500 in May. I'm expecting a good June. July sets up to have a favorable schedule also with 3 vs KC, 7 vs Seattle and 6 vs Oak; and the only good opponent being 4 games at Minny. (Texas and LAA cover the rest of that month - neither of them scares me too much despite what we have done so far)

You are right - June will could be the end for this club. If, however, we come out good, then June/July could be enough to valut us right into this race. August has 13 games vs Minny/Detroit, so if we are close going in to Aug, we have every chance in the world...Sept gives us another 10 vs Minny/Det. This year we wrap it up at home vs Cleve...I'm hoping that those games mean something to us... :-)

Hitmen77
05-27-2010, 09:46 AM
That's optimistic thinking, but I need a good showing by this team in Tampa if I'm going to get on that side.

I appreciate your optimism, but fans of several (most?) of those teams are saying the same thing, too, and salivating at the chance of facing the Sox.


The problem is that they have not played well against crappy teams thus far, and some of the teams they face in June, like WAS and PIT, have had their moments. KC has given us fits, and the 2010 White Sox have not been able to duplicate a successfully winning pattern thus far regardless of who they are facing.

One game they hit, then they don't pitch.

One game they pitch, then they don't hit.

One game they field decently, then they don't score runs or pitch.

Then they have a game when they do not do anything right and get their asses handed to them on a platter.

The irony is that every commentator I have heard on the networks are puzzled why this team cannot win.

They do not have a killer instinct, key players are not consistently stepping up, and they continue to not fire on all cylinders. When you have three total black holes in the lineup at 3B, 2B, and C, favorable schedule or not, you will not win.

Many posters want to compare this team to the 1983 White Sox. I believe it is more accurate to compare them to the 1984 version.

The only things I can agree with in this thread is that they need to take advantage of this schedule and win, and if they don't, there will be many departing flights out of Chicago by former White Sox players in July and August.

I generally agree with what is said here.

I am encouraged to see that our deficit has been shaved to 6 games. 6 games out on May 26 is nowhere near being "out of it".

HOWEVER, games out of first is not the only problem with this team. This team still has a number of players that seriously need to turn thing around for us to compete. If Beckham and Quentin are going to continue to flounder this year, I can't see us making a run for anything because we have no Plan B behind those guys and our lineup cannot consistently generate runs with players that go 0-4 day after day. Jones looks like he's coming back down to earth. If he's going to fade to his over-the-hill mode, then it's going to be a long rest of the season with Ozzie's dream duo of Jones and Kotsay at DH.

Another serious issue with this team is the starting pitching. Is Peavy going to turn things around? He's been terrible. Then when he finally looks like he's turning things around, he gets lit up again. What about Buehrle and Floyd? Buehrle hasn't pitched consistently well since the perfect game. If these guys don't get their act together, we aren't going anywhere.

The downward spiral of Jenks is a big blow to us too. Yes, we do have Thornton, Putz and Santos who could fill the void. But losing Jenks as an effective reliever is yet another stumbling block for this team.

So, no, the season is not over because they are 6 out on May 26. But they need to do better than just win a few games against a .500 NL team and a lousy Indians team before I see signs that the Sox have turned the corner.

Hitmen77
05-27-2010, 09:55 AM
The irony is that every commentator I have heard on the networks are puzzled why this team cannot win.



This has been a problem for the Sox going on 4 years now. That's another problem I have with believing that they're "snapping out of it" now.

This team has been a chronic underperformer and bad at fundamentals since July 2006. Players come and go and we have the same results. There is something wrong with the way this team is being managed and/or coached.

LoveYourSuit
05-27-2010, 10:14 AM
I know some people gave up on this team already - I'm obviously not in that group. If we can split 4 at Tampa, given our June, we could easily run off a .666 streak in the 27 games in June. 3 vs Tex, 3 vs Cle, 3 vs Det, 6 vs Cubs, 3 vs Pitt, 3 vs Wash, 3 vs ATL and 3 vs KC...

There's not a good team on our schedule in June. Now we aren't (right now) a good team either - but we have the talent to be much better than we have been so far.

I don't know gang...but I sure as **** aint giving up.


Who's to say those teams aren't saying the same about us on their schedule.


I'm not going to jump back on this thing and invest full emotion until I see:

- Jenks relieved from closing duties.
- Peavy pitching like an ACE
- Beckham starts hitting like a 1st round draft pick

And by the way, can we try to get a bit closer to .500 than 6 games before we start looking at standings?

jabrch
05-27-2010, 10:19 AM
The irony is that every commentator I have heard on the networks are puzzled why this team cannot win.

Just one very minor point of clarification/semantics. It is inaccurate to say that they can not win. The fact that they have not won consistently to-date doesn't mean they can't...just that they haven't. Lots of reasons explain that - Our 3 SP not named Danks or Garcia and TCQ deserve the lion's share of the blame...

balke
05-27-2010, 10:20 AM
Big series IMO. Can the Sox split or beat the best in the bigs? If so, I think they make a great case for not selling off AJ right away - and waiting at least til the deadline to make big decisions.

Weird to think these Sox could become buyers at the deadline.

jabrch
05-27-2010, 10:21 AM
This has been a problem for the Sox going on 4 years now. That's another problem I have with believing that they're "snapping out of it" now.

This team has been a chronic underperformer and bad at fundamentals since July 2006. Players come and go and we have the same results. There is something wrong with the way this team is being managed and/or coached.


That's not true. This team made the post season two years ago and won 9 games 4 years ago. Saying they cannot win for 4 years is just inaccurate.

Gavin
05-27-2010, 11:09 AM
Since 1995, after 46 games, here is the "good news" that came from teams with 26 or more losses:

In 2009, Colorado had 28 losses after 46 games (Wild Card)
In 2007, Colorado had 27 losses after 46 games (Wild Card, Pennant)
In 2006, Minnesota had 26 losses after 46 games (Division Champ)
In 2005, Houston had 30 (THIRTY) losses after 46 games (I think we all know how that turned out)
In 2003, Florida had 27 losses after 46 games and won the World Series
In 2002, Oakland had 26 losses after 46 games (Division Champ)
In 1996, St. Louis had 26 losses after 46 games (Division Champ)
In 1995, NYY had 27 losses after 46 games (Wild Card)

Totals:
8 Postseason Berths:
5 Wild Card berths
3 Division Champs
3 Pennants
1 World Series Victory

Tragg
05-27-2010, 11:14 AM
We need to pull off a winning streak. Or win 7/10, something like that.
Let's start in Tampa. They're on a losing streak.

KMcMahon817
05-27-2010, 11:14 AM
I know some people gave up on this team already - I'm obviously not in that group. If we can split 4 at Tampa, given our June, we could easily run off a .666 streak in the 27 games in June. 3 vs Tex, 3 vs Cle, 3 vs Det, 6 vs Cubs, 3 vs Pitt, 3 vs Wash, 3 vs ATL and 3 vs KC...

There's not a good team on our schedule in June. Now we aren't (right now) a good team either - but we have the talent to be much better than we have been so far.

I don't know gang...but I sure as **** aint giving up.

I like your style.

What's the point in being a die hard fan if you give up a month into the season? What fun is that?

But hey, to each his own.

guillensdisciple
05-27-2010, 12:04 PM
I approve of this thread.

The White Sox will make a run.

kufram
05-27-2010, 12:12 PM
I like this thread too and we can use all the optimism that can be mustered. I would just say that we must focus on one game at a time and play them as they come.

khan
05-27-2010, 12:13 PM
I know some people gave up on this team already - I'm obviously not in that group. If we can split 4 at Tampa, given our June, we could easily run off a .666 streak in the 27 games in June. 3 vs Tex, 3 vs Cle, 3 vs Det, 6 vs Cubs, 3 vs Pitt, 3 vs Wash, 3 vs ATL and 3 vs KC...

There's not a good team on our schedule in June. Now we aren't (right now) a good team either - but we have the talent to be much better than we have been so far.

I don't know gang...but I sure as **** aint giving up.

Dumb questions:

1. Do the SOX have a better record than any of those teams right now? [I honestly don't know.] EDIT: OK, Cleveland has a worse record than the SOX, but the SOX have a worse record v. Cleveland.

2. Did you factor in Sunday lineups, Vizquel-as-a-DH, Konerko's annual 6 week vacation from hitting, Jones' free-fall in performance since April, the inconsistency in the [supposed] #1/2/4 SPs, and the lack of performance in the closer in your calculus?


Sure, the SOX "could" go .666 in those games. I'd be shocked, to tell you the truth if they did. On the other hand, the SOX could easily go .400 or less in those games. If they did THAT, I'd be less shocked, unfortunately.

voodoochile
05-27-2010, 12:40 PM
I kicked out the post from the pessimist we Pollyanna's need a sanctuary to call our own without having to rehash all of the same tired arguments that have been dominating the landscape here during the rough start to the season.

Yes, it's only a few wins against bad teams, but hey, that's an improvement and yes, there's a bunch of games coming against bad teams so what the heck, I guess there's only one thing left to do... :cool:

WhiteSox1989
05-27-2010, 12:55 PM
This thread sucks.

khan
05-27-2010, 12:58 PM
No ****. I was responding to another thread, and my post was separated into this thread for some reason.

voodoochile
05-27-2010, 01:07 PM
No ****. I was responding to another thread, and my post was separated into this thread for some reason.

Didn't want that thread to get turned into another bombed out wasteland complaining about all of the stuff that's been hashed to death for the last month or so.

If you'd prefer I can close it and move it to the Roadhouse.

voodoochile
05-27-2010, 01:12 PM
Okay, I renamed it so you won't get hammered for the thread title. I'm here to serve. The offer to close it and move it stands...

downstairs
05-27-2010, 01:13 PM
I'm not being pessimistic here, but is it really that exciting that our only hope is that we're playing bad teams? Once June is over, we'll have games against contenders again. And if we do great against the bad teams, its not going to transform the Sox into a world-beating team.

Yes, I'm excited for some wins I guess... but I'll be on board when we can take care of the best teams out there.

downstairs
05-27-2010, 01:15 PM
I say keep it. Its a fair point. Yeah, some people may be tired of the complaining... but the reality is some of us are tired of seeing a team that's good on paper stink it up.

russ99
05-27-2010, 01:16 PM
We need a good showing against a good Tampa Bay club this weekend, then I'll believe they're getting closer to back on track.

kittle42
05-27-2010, 01:18 PM
Since 1995, after 46 games, here is the "good news" that came from teams with 26 or more losses:

Totals:
8 Postseason Berths:
5 Wild Card berths
3 Division Champs
3 Pennants
1 World Series Victory

So, out of 8 possible playoff spots each year over 15 years (120 total slots), ONLY EIGHT teams made the postseason?

Hardly good odds for this team.

kittle42
05-27-2010, 01:19 PM
I say keep it. Its a fair point. Yeah, some people may be tired of the complaining... but the reality is some of us are tired of seeing a team that's good on paper stink it up.

They weren't good on paper in March.

voodoochile
05-27-2010, 01:21 PM
They weren't good on paper in March.

See that's why I split this thread... Thanks, Kittle...

khan
05-27-2010, 01:21 PM
Okay, I renamed it so you won't get hammered for the thread title. I'm here to serve. The offer to close it and move it stands...

I don't have a problem with it being removed or closed, but neither the original poster of that thread, nor any of the other posters stated that they wanted pollyanna posts only.

In fact, if that's what he wanted, why didn't he so state it?

voodoochile
05-27-2010, 01:24 PM
I don't have a problem with it being removed or closed, but neither the original poster of that thread, nor any of the other posters stated that they wanted pollyanna posts only.

In fact, if that's what he wanted, why didn't he so state it?

That's a heck of a question...

pudge
05-27-2010, 01:25 PM
This is actually brilliant, we should split all threads into the two camps so they can enjoy each other's viewpoint without crappin' all over the other's!

Domeshot17
05-27-2010, 01:26 PM
They weren't good on paper in March.

I think thats the problem. Either you post this sunshine and rainbows fluff, everything will be okay, they will turn it around, or you don't post at all because the team is bad? If Jenks continues to struggle, or Jones continues to struggle, or Beckham and Quentin don't turn it around, or Peavy doesn't find it, should we just, say nothing?

I mean yes, It is good news we have an easier schedule, and the Twins are cooling down. That said, June isn't really easy. Teams either are playing better than us, are better than us, or have gotten the best of us thusfar. No reason we can't heat up, but expecting us to go .666, win 2 of 3 games in June, just sounds like you will be disappointed. I think most of us would settle for simply getting back to .500 baseball. If we can do that, and keep it 5 to 6 back by July, maybe Kenny will go pick up a couple hitters with talent and we can turn this crap around.

Gavin
05-27-2010, 01:27 PM
So, out of 8 possible playoff spots each year over 15 years (120 total slots), ONLY EIGHT teams made the postseason?

Hardly good odds for this team.

8/120 = 6.67%

CoolStandings.com currently has the Sox at 6.5%

I think you're on to something big, man.

More seriously though, I'll run this same type of look up again if the Sox ever hit .500.

So, some time next week.

pudge
05-27-2010, 01:28 PM
So, out of 8 possible playoff spots each year over 15 years (120 total slots), ONLY EIGHT teams made the postseason?

Hardly good odds for this team.

And more importantly, ONE world series winner. (Actually, who the heck won the World Series after starting this poorly?)

I'm ready to get on the bandwagon, but the odds are nil. We're talking 7% chance of the playoffs. I guess it's better than zero.

voodoochile
05-27-2010, 01:32 PM
And more importantly, ONE world series winner. (Actually, who the heck won the World Series after starting this poorly?)

I'm ready to get on the bandwagon, but the odds are nil. We're talking 7% chance of the playoffs. I guess it's better than zero.

Not necessarily. That list only is based on losses, not on games back. A more pertinent question would be how many teams that were 6 games back on 5/27 came back to make the playoffs? Right now if the Sox were in the ALE, they'd be 11.5 back with 4 teams in front of them and 5.5 games out of 4th. In other words they truly would be toast, BUT, the Sox play in the ALC and neither of the two teams in front of them are all that good and both of them are deeply flawed in one way or another...

WhiteSox1989
05-27-2010, 01:39 PM
The Sox have been winning lately. It might be ugly, but they're winning. Sure, maybe they won't win the division, but it doesn't hurt to be optimistic. Because ya know, it's only May.

I'm not ALL positive. Sure, Jenks sucks, Quentin and Beckham aren't playing up to their potential, and the pitching has had some pretty disappointing games, but there have still been some bright spots this season.

PhillipsBubba
05-27-2010, 01:50 PM
I hate to pee in your punchbowl, but this team might as well be 20 games out. The Twins are far superior and the Sox are unable to consistently win games to close the gap and/or hold a lead in the division.

SI1020
05-27-2010, 01:57 PM
Not necessarily. That list only is based on losses, not on games back. A more pertinent question would be how many teams that were 6 games back on 5/27 came back to make the playoffs? Right now if the Sox were in the ALE, they'd be 11.5 back with 4 teams in front of them and 5.5 games out of 4th. In other words they truly would be toast, BUT, the Sox play in the ALC and neither of the two teams in front of them are all that good and both of them are deeply flawed in one way or another... In its parity driven state only 3 of 30 MLB teams are playing .600 or better baseball at this point in the season, 2 out of the 3 are in the ALE. So for the moment we can hold on to hope thanks to the fact that right now mediocrity rules the day.

DirtySox
05-27-2010, 02:05 PM
The Rays are scuffling, having lost 3 in a row to Boston. The White Sox are just what they need to get back on track.

hawkjt
05-27-2010, 02:24 PM
I hate to pee in your punchbowl, but this team might as well be 20 games out. The Twins are far superior and the Sox are unable to consistently win games to close the gap and/or hold a lead in the division.

The Twins are struggling to score runs lately. They are complaining about the ball not carrying at Target..they only have 10 homers in 23 games at home,while they have 28 homers in 23 road games.
Gardenhire was complaining about the Yankees tactics.
They are showing some signs of fraying...6 months is a long time to hold the lead. Keep plugging away ,Sox.

DirtySox
05-27-2010, 02:30 PM
I kicked out the post from the pessimist we Pollyanna's need a sanctuary to call our own without having to rehash all of the same tired arguments that have been dominating the landscape here during the rough start to the season.

Sorry, I missed that. You can move mine if you wish.

WhiteSoxFTW
05-27-2010, 02:42 PM
If we get swept by Tampa, then the little glimmer of hope we had by winning our last two series is gone, IMO.

chisox12
05-27-2010, 03:10 PM
If we get swept by Tampa, then the little glimmer of hope we had by winning our last two series is gone, IMO.


Yep. It's time for this team to step up and quit playing like a bunch of ******* like they have so far this season.

KMcMahon817
05-27-2010, 03:12 PM
I hate to pee in your punchbowl, but this team might as well be 20 games out. The Twins are far superior and the Sox are unable to consistently win games to close the gap and/or hold a lead in the division.


I disagree. And so would anybody who know baseball and has watched the 5 games the Sox and Twins have played.

And the Twins have been less than mediocre since the last time the Sox played them.

pythons007
05-27-2010, 03:25 PM
I just get frustrated with people being Johnny Dark Cloud or Suzie Poopypants. I've looked forward to baseball season since October, and 2 weeks into the season we have people on here asking for a firesale!

It would be fine if it were only one or two threads but its I hate this person thread, why do we have this guy lead off thread, why is this guy still on the team thread, why isn't this guy in AAA thread, blah blah blah.

People need to remember its not a sprint its a marathon. Sox may have stumbled out of the gate and the Twins didn't, but we still have 116 games left!!!!! It looks like they are slowy putting something together and the Twins might be unraveling a little.

voodoochile
05-27-2010, 03:30 PM
See that's why I split this thread... Thanks, Kittle...


And now since you people can't keep the good out of the bad and the bad out of the good, I have remerged them... :gah:...

Edit: In short, the dark clouds are raining on the Pollyannas and the Pollyannas are dancing in the rain... It's chaos... utter madness...

:tongue:

pythons007
05-27-2010, 03:35 PM
And now since you people can't keep the good out of the bad and the bad out of the good, I have remerged them... :gah:...

Edit: In short, the dark clouds are raining on the Pollyannas and the Pollyannas are dancing in the rain... It's chaos... utter madness...

:tongue:

Oops

BadBobbyJenks
05-27-2010, 03:40 PM
I guess I just don't see the logic at looking at the standings instead of the team on the field. I am glad we are not out of the race already, but I doubt anyone has seen anything on the field that leads them to believe a run is coming.

I hope they do start playing well, I hope they learn to play defense, people other than Konerko and Rios start hitting, Peavy pitches like an ace, Jenks regains his form, but we have seen little to no signs of that happening.

Coming off two series wins, we get a struggling Rays. This should be a good test.

kittle42
05-27-2010, 05:08 PM
This team needs to win about 2/3 or more of its remaining games against CLE and KC to have any chance.

pudge
05-27-2010, 06:23 PM
Edit: In short, the dark clouds are raining on the Pollyannas and the Pollyannas are dancing in the rain... It's chaos... utter madness...

:tongue:

Ah well, some things will never change, we'll all just have to get along amongst the chaos...

I'm wondering, what would 3 out of 4 against Tampa do to people's opinions? (And I say that not at all believing it will happen.)

jabrch
05-27-2010, 06:55 PM
I hate to pee in your punchbowl, but this team might as well be 20 games out.

Awesome attitude. Remind me to not invite you to my next party.

jabrch
05-27-2010, 06:56 PM
And now since you people can't keep the good out of the bad and the bad out of the good, I have remerged them... :gah:...

Edit: In short, the dark clouds are raining on the Pollyannas and the Pollyannas are dancing in the rain... It's chaos... utter madness...

:tongue:

I still don't get who the Pollyanna...I said the team sucked in April. It was better in May - and we have no idea what June and on will bring, but we are 6 out today and have every chance in the world of making a race out of it. If that's being a Pollyanna - then so be it...

voodoochile
05-27-2010, 07:01 PM
I still don't get who the Pollyanna...I said the team sucked in April. It was better in May - and we have no idea what June and on will bring, but we are 6 out today and have every chance in the world of making a race out of it. If that's being a Pollyanna - then so be it...

I was making light of the two factions involved in most of these types of debates Not intended to be taken seriously. That's why I put the little tongue smilie at the end of the post...

jabrch
05-27-2010, 07:03 PM
If we get swept by Tampa, then the little glimmer of hope we had by winning our last two series is gone, IMO.

To quit on a team before June first just seems a bit silly to me if they are still in striking distance with a softer schedule coming up - but to each their own....

CLR01
05-27-2010, 09:28 PM
http://www.cineol.net/images/noticias/Cameos/Waterboy_2.jpg

kittle42
05-27-2010, 11:24 PM
Thank you, CLR.

NO FAN BASE "quits" before July.

There is always hope.

The Sox are one of those teams in which the hope is always misguided.

That is it.

voodoochile
05-28-2010, 12:22 AM
Thank you, CLR.

NO FAN BASE "quits" before July.

There is always hope.

The Sox are one of those teams in which the hope is always misguided.

That is it.

Always? :scratch:

kittle42
05-28-2010, 12:27 AM
Always? :scratch:

You are correct, voodoo. It is 93.5% misguided, generally.

I choose to think about Ozzie and Kenny getting fired and not that elusive 6.5%.

voodoochile
05-28-2010, 12:31 AM
You are correct, voodoo. It is 93.5% misguided, generally.

I choose to think about Ozzie and Kenny getting fired and not that elusive 6.5%.

Yes because surely firing the only guys in any of our lifetimes to land that elusive 6.5% longshot will guarantee the Sox decades of neverending success with multiple World Series titles in the next 5 years alone...

jabrch
05-28-2010, 12:44 AM
Yes because surely firing the only guys in any of our lifetimes to land that elusive 6.5% longshot will guarantee the Sox decades of neverending success with multiple World Series titles in the next 5 years alone...

I wouldn't care if they got let go or not...I'd be more concerned with who replaces them and less concerned with former Sox... I just don't see how regime change is the answer to our guy pitching and hitting so poorly relative to expectations.

Craig Grebeck
05-28-2010, 12:48 AM
2012 isn't far off, and the inevitable Kenny promotion, Hahn to GM is soon coming.

harwar
05-28-2010, 09:38 AM
i'm not sure why some just can't seem to wait for the culling to begin .. once players (and or staff) start being cut away like broken masts in a storm, i imagine that it's going to get pretty ugly .. it may be years before we regain our footing .. a sobering thought, for me at least (maybe selfishly) .. i'm not sure i can wait that long .. for now, i'll hold onto the fleeting hope that this season is not lost, since the alternative is bleak .. win 1 or 2 in tampa and move on ..

soltrain21
05-28-2010, 09:42 AM
i'm not sure why some just can't seem to wait for the culling to begin .. once players (and or staff) start being cut away like broken masts in a storm, i imagine that it's going to get pretty ugly .. it may be years before we regain our footing .. a sobering thought, for me at least (maybe selfishly) .. i'm not sure i can wait that long .. for now, i'll hold onto the fleeting hope that this season is not lost, since the alternative is bleak .. win 1 or 2 in tampa and move on ..

I'd rather see this team sink for a few years and get better than this "rebuilding while competing" and watching it not work while picking up scraps and send offs.

Nelfox02
05-28-2010, 12:42 PM
I'd rather see this team sink for a few years and get better than this "rebuilding while competing" and watching it not work while picking up scraps and send offs.



I have not buried this team just yet, my heart roots and says there is hope but my head knows that it wont happen this year. So we all know they will trade guys ( I doubt we get the "firesale" that a lot of people here want) and I am confident we are looking at down years in 2011 and likely 2012.......anyone have a prediction on ticket prices? Do they stubbornly leave them as high or (gulp) higher than they are now for the next to years and watch the Cell become a ghost town or do they bring them down?

GoSox2K3
05-30-2010, 09:09 PM
....and meanwhile the Sox have dropped back to 8 games out.

It's nice to split the series with Tampa, but we're still losing ground

SephClone89
05-30-2010, 09:25 PM
....and meanwhile the Sox have dropped back to 8 games out.

It's nice to split the series with Tampa, but we're still losing ground

Before we get scoreboard watching I'd like to claw back to .500.

JermaineDye05
05-30-2010, 09:27 PM
Before we get scoreboard watching I'd like to claw back to .500.

If the Sox crawl back to .500, they better win the whole damn thing, at the very least the division. If they're not gonna do that, I'd honestly prefer them to finish in the bottom of the pack so they can get a top 10 pick in next year's draft.

Frater Perdurabo
05-30-2010, 09:43 PM
The problem is that the Sox screwed the pooch in April, especially early against Cleveland. The Sox are now 3-6 against the Indians. That record should be turned around to 6-3. They should also have won another game against the Royals and be 4-2 instead of 3-3.

Splitting with Tampa and Toronto in the domes is acceptable. Losing two of three at Texas and again in New York is understandable. They are 2-3 against the Twins, which is not terrible, especially considering each of those losses to the Twins was by just one run.

But they have got to pick up wins against the dregs of the division.

WhiteSox5187
05-30-2010, 09:50 PM
The problem is that the Sox screwed the pooch in April, especially early against Cleveland. The Sox are now 3-6 against the Indians. That record should be turned around to 6-3. They should also have won another game against the Royals and be 4-2 instead of 3-3.

Splitting with Tampa and Toronto in the domes is acceptable. Losing two of three at Texas and again in New York is understandable. They are 2-3 against the Twins, which is not terrible, especially considering each of those losses to the Twins was by just one run.

But they have got to pick up wins against the dregs of the division.

That miserable start in April has really hurt. We have to play catch up now the rest of the way which is hard to do. I still have some stupid hope we can get to .500 early in June and start to make a run. But we're at Memorial Day now where traditionally you can tell the pretenders from the contenders and right now we're not contending. We have to turn it around REAL fast here in June and fortunately our schedule theoretically allows us to do that. But if we keep playing the way we've played the first two months, I'll be ready to give up on the season and go into full "rebuild" mode.

Frater Perdurabo
05-30-2010, 09:52 PM
Here is the June schedule:

3 v. TEX
3 v. CLE
3 v. DET
3 @ CUBS
3 @ PIT
3 @ WAS
3 v. ATL
3 v. CUBS
3 @ KC

Each of those series is winnable, and several of those teams can be swept. That means 18-9 is completely doable. If so, they will be 40-37 on July 1, and very much in the thick of things.

Johnny Mostil
05-30-2010, 10:03 PM
Before we get scoreboard watching I'd like to claw back to .500.

:thumbsup:

If the Sox crawl back to .500, they better win the whole damn thing, at the very least the division. If they're not gonna do that, I'd honestly prefer them to finish in the bottom of the pack so they can get a top 10 pick in next year's draft.

I don't get this. Is there that great a difference between the top 10 in next year's draft and the next 20? (I can't say I've scoped next year's class well enough to know.) I guess I prefer to live for the moment--and the team has been a little bit more interesting of late . . .

WhiteSox5187
05-30-2010, 10:10 PM
:thumbsup:



I don't get this. Is there that great a difference between the top 10 in next year's draft and the next 20? (I can't say I've scoped next year's class well enough to know.) I guess I prefer to live for the moment--and the team has been a little bit more interesting of late . . .

Usually there is a big difference, but that also means the first ten are going to get BIG pay checks and JR does not like to pay over the MLB recommended slot.

But really the draft is a huge crap shoot. There have been tons of "can't miss" first round guys who have done nothing with their career and there have also been a lot of gems that come out of the later rounds.

JermaineDye05
05-30-2010, 10:15 PM
:thumbsup:



I don't get this. Is there that great a difference between the top 10 in next year's draft and the next 20? (I can't say I've scoped next year's class well enough to know.) I guess I prefer to live for the moment--and the team has been a little bit more interesting of late . . .

I've heard that the 2011 draft is supposed to be pretty solid, but yeah take that with a grain of salt. I'd just like the Sox to get something out of this season. Either a title or a high pick in the draft, rather than finish in the middle of the pack and fail to make the post season again and get nothing in return. The way this team's farm system is right now, they could sure use some more solid prospects, especially after Mitchell went down.

jabrch
05-30-2010, 11:15 PM
If the Sox crawl back to .500, they better win the whole damn thing, at the very least the division. If they're not gonna do that, I'd honestly prefer them to finish in the bottom of the pack so they can get a top 10 pick in next year's draft.


Brilliant!!!!

pudge
05-30-2010, 11:48 PM
Here is the June schedule:

3 v. TEX
3 v. CLE
3 v. DET
3 @ CUBS
3 @ PIT
3 @ WAS
3 v. ATL
3 v. CUBS
3 @ KC

Each of those series is winnable, and several of those teams can be swept. That means 18-9 is completely doable. If so, they will be 40-37 on July 1, and very much in the thick of things.

You're asking a team that does not look anywhere near ready to rip off an 18-9 run to do just that. It would be one thing if the starters looked dominant, the defense was solid, and we were just waiting for the bats to wake up, but that is not the case. I don't see that stretch of games as so easy, but maybe that's just because I don't think the Sox are that good. The Cubs games are always a war, records go out the window. WAS and PIT are obviously pretty bad, but it's not like the Sox have torn up CLE or KC.

Clearly, 18-9 would get a lot of people excited, I'm all for it, but it would be a borderline miracle.

DirtySox
05-31-2010, 12:03 AM
If the Sox crawl back to .500, they better win the whole damn thing, at the very least the division. If they're not gonna do that, I'd honestly prefer them to finish in the bottom of the pack so they can get a top 10 pick in next year's draft.

I would also hope to see drastic changes in personnel if they finish up with such a record.

thomas35forever
05-31-2010, 12:10 AM
Here is the June schedule:

3 v. TEX
3 v. CLE
3 v. DET
3 @ CUBS
3 @ PIT
3 @ WAS
3 v. ATL
3 v. CUBS
3 @ KC

Each of those series is winnable, and several of those teams can be swept. That means 18-9 is completely doable. If so, they will be 40-37 on July 1, and very much in the thick of things.
Agreed. This schedule is not that scary to me except for maybe Texas and Detroit. I see good things ahead for this coming month.

jabrch
05-31-2010, 12:41 AM
Here is the June schedule:

3 v. TEX
3 v. CLE
3 v. DET
3 @ CUBS
3 @ PIT
3 @ WAS
3 v. ATL
3 v. CUBS
3 @ KC

Each of those series is winnable, and several of those teams can be swept. That means 18-9 is completely doable. If so, they will be 40-37 on July 1, and very much in the thick of things.


Even if we go 2 of 3 at home and .500 on the road, that's still 10-5 @ home + 6-6 on the road for a 16 and 11. That gets us to 1 game under .500 - and still very much in the thick of things. July sets up to be a month where we could again gain ground.

harwar
05-31-2010, 08:30 AM
i haven't even really looked at july all that closely .. june is all important right now .. we are 8 games back right now and we can't really afford to lose even one series i think .. if we go 18 -9 that would mean it's all coming together .. if that happens then those 4 games in minnesota would be huge .. if not, then i think july begins the rebuilding process ..

munchman33
05-31-2010, 08:40 AM
i haven't even really looked at july all that closely .. june is all important right now .. we are 8 games back right now and we can't really afford to lose even one series i think .. if we go 18 -9 that would mean it's all coming together .. if that happens then those 4 games in minnesota would be huge .. if not, then i think july begins the rebuilding process ..

Is Minnesota going to tank in that same period? If we go 18-9 over any stretch, there's no guarantee we even gain a single game. Minnesota is scary good, and likely to kick it into another gear if we show signs of life.

mzh
05-31-2010, 09:36 AM
It is my opinion that the Twins are relying on good pitching from mediocre pitchers going better than their career average. When Carl Pavano and Kevin SLowey and them go back to around their career norms, which I think they will, we'll start to see them lose some games

soltrain21
05-31-2010, 09:40 AM
It is my opinion that the Twins are relying on good pitching from mediocre pitchers going better than their career average. When Carl Pavano and Kevin SLowey and them go back to around their career norms, which I think they will, we'll start to see them lose some games

Or maybe they won't go back to career norms. We got lucky in 05 with our pitching. It's entirely possible they just...have it this year.

jabrch
05-31-2010, 10:25 AM
Or maybe they won't go back to career norms. We got lucky in 05 with our pitching. It's entirely possible they just...have it this year.

And if that happens, it was meant to be...If Pavano and Slowey really are front liners, we never had a chance.

I'll go back and dig up all the threads where that was predicted....

Craig Grebeck
05-31-2010, 12:03 PM
And if that happens, it was meant to be...If Pavano and Slowey really are front liners, we never had a chance.

I'll go back and dig up all the threads where that was predicted....
Slowey is not pitching like a frontliner. He's pitching okay.

Edit: and also, I predicted the Twins would have a lower team ERA.

TheVulture
05-31-2010, 12:09 PM
...easily run off a .666 streak in the 27 games in June...


:rolling:

NLaloosh
05-31-2010, 12:30 PM
:rolling:

+ 1

It's Dankerific
05-31-2010, 12:35 PM
Yes, if the Sox do something that they've never come close to doing this year and other teams do something worse that they've also not done this year, THEN WE'RE RIGHT BACK IN IT!!!

YES!!!

DirtySox
05-31-2010, 07:49 PM
You can pencil Strasburg in for the Nats series.

SephClone89
05-31-2010, 08:06 PM
Slowey is not pitching like a frontliner. He's pitching okay.

Edit: and also, I predicted the Twins would have a lower team ERA.

Fantastic. You made a correct prediction. You have amazing knowledge of baseball. We should all just bow to you. When you put your two cents into an argument, we should just stop and nod in agreement with you. You will always be right.

Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back.

Craig Grebeck
05-31-2010, 08:15 PM
Fantastic. You made a correct prediction. You have amazing knowledge of baseball. We should all just bow to you. When you put your two cents into an argument, we should just stop and nod in agreement with you. You will always be right.

Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back.
Fantastic criticism. Read what the OP said. Here, I'll make it easier:

I'll go back and dig up all the threads where that was predicted....

As if to say, no one predicted that!

areilly
05-31-2010, 08:16 PM
Each of those series is winnable, and several of those teams can be swept. That means 18-9 is completely doable. If so, they will be 40-37 on July 1, and very much in the thick of things.

The Sox just put together their first +.500 week in over a month. There is no way they, as currently assembled, go 18-9 at any point for the rest of 2010.

SephClone89
05-31-2010, 08:27 PM
Fantastic criticism. Read what the OP said. Here, I'll make it easier:



As if to say, no one predicted that!

Alright, I'll give you that.

But generally, you seem to always have your heart set on being able to say "I told you so," and it's incredibly tiring.

canOcorn
05-31-2010, 08:59 PM
Alright, I'll give you that.

But generally, you seem to always have your heart set on being able to say "I told you so," and it's incredibly tiring.

It's also incredibly tiring hearing that it's "it's early", "small sample", when you've been screaming that this team has major flaws for months.

I understand, there's a small line between people having blind optimism and slitting wrists. We all want the Sox to win, but we're starting to get pretty (and I understand this term is part of the problem) deep in a hole as an organization. There's not much in the minors, our lineup is in decline, getting older and more expensive. Unless KW can make a few fantastic trades we're stuck with either throwing a ton of money at free agents or in the draft and that's not something this organization has either way.

Daver
05-31-2010, 09:05 PM
Unless KW can make a few fantastic trades we're stuck with either throwing a ton of money at free agents or in the draft and that's not something this organization has either way.

Seems kind of silly to pay over slot for talent in the draft when it is obvious that you can't develop talent.

canOcorn
05-31-2010, 09:13 PM
Seems kind of silly to pay over slot for talent in the draft when it is obvious that you can't develop talent.

Agreed. It seems they have now put people in place to be accountable and I think it's time for a change of drafting low upside, easy signs and letting some of the scouts do their job. And not taking the easy, cheap way out that JR has pushed down for his entire run of this team.

Daver
05-31-2010, 09:28 PM
Agreed. It seems they have now put people in place to be accountable

It's news to me.

They hired Buddy Bell, and what else?

DirtySox
05-31-2010, 09:30 PM
It's news to me.

They hired Buddy Bell, and what else?

Jerry Krause!

Frater Perdurabo
05-31-2010, 09:33 PM
Jerry Krause!

Organizations win championships. :bandance:

LoveYourSuit
06-01-2010, 12:13 AM
For those still scoring on this thread:

Twins pick up another 1/2 game tonight. 8.5 is the lead.


We are as close to Baltimore for worst record as we are to 1st place. 8 games in the loss column.

asindc
06-01-2010, 09:59 AM
Yes, if the Sox do something that they've never come close to doing this year and other teams do something worse that they've also not done this year, THEN WE'RE RIGHT BACK IN IT!!!

YES!!!

Yes, that is exactly what would need to happen.

asindc
06-01-2010, 10:03 AM
Agreed. It seems they have now put people in place to be accountable and I think it's time for a change of drafting low upside, easy signs and letting some of the scouts do their job. And not taking the easy, cheap way out that JR has pushed down for his entire run of this team.

As someone who has called for Ozzie's head, why would you think a change in manager would help if you think JR is taking the cheap, easy way out? If such is actually the case (not arguing one way or the other), then changing the manager and/or the GM will probably have minimal effect on how the organization is managed.

jabrch
06-01-2010, 10:37 AM
As someone who has called for Ozzie's head, why would you think a change in manager would help if you think JR is taking the cheap, easy way out? If such is actually the case (not arguing one way or the other), then changing the manager and/or the GM will probably have minimal effect on how the organization is managed.

But why limit your options of things to complain about?

Law11
06-01-2010, 10:40 AM
Welcome to June.. And a season on the brink.. Shocker....

munchman33
06-01-2010, 10:41 AM
Alright, I'll give you that.

But generally, you seem to always have your heart set on being able to say "I told you so," and it's incredibly tiring.

**** this argument. Grebeck, Doublem, and I were screaming at the top of our lungs about this team and about Minnesota and everyone gave us **** for it. Now that exactly what we screamed for months came true to the letter, we're the *******s for seeing it? :rolleyes:

#1swisher
06-01-2010, 10:51 AM
As someone who has called for Ozzie's head, why would you think a change in manager would help if you think JR is taking the cheap, easy way out? If such is actually the case (not arguing one way or the other), then changing the manager and/or the GM will probably have minimal effect on how the organization is managed.


The Bulls come to mind.

SephClone89
06-01-2010, 10:52 AM
**** this argument. Grebeck, Doublem, and I were screaming at the top of our lungs about this team and about Minnesota and everyone gave us **** for it. Now that exactly what we screamed for months came true to the letter, we're the *******s for seeing it? :rolleyes:

It's just the attitude that is so tiring. I also thought Minnesota was going to be good. Did I know their pitching was going to be this good on June 1st? No, but I thought they would be the favourites.

I don't feel the need to go around flaunting my grand foresight everywhere.

Craig Grebeck
06-01-2010, 10:58 AM
It's just the attitude that is so tiring. I also thought Minnesota was going to be good. Did I know their pitching was going to be this good on June 1st? No, but I thought they would be the favourites.

I don't feel the need to go around flaunting my grand foresight everywhere.
I don't really think anyone does, or has. I simply answered Jabrch's question.

munchman33
06-01-2010, 11:00 AM
It's just the attitude that is so tiring. I also thought Minnesota was going to be good. Did I know their pitching was going to be this good on June 1st? No, but I thought they would be the favourites.

I don't feel the need to go around flaunting my grand foresight everywhere.

Sounds more like spilled milk to me. :shrug:

Grebeck's earned his due, and with all the **** the pollyannas gave him for standing his ground, maybe he does have a chip on his shoulder about it. So what. He's still right and they're still wrong. And it's not like the staunchest of pollyanna's arent' still arguing it'll completely turn around.

SI1020
06-01-2010, 11:05 AM
Sounds more like spilled milk to me. :shrug:

Grebeck's earned his due, and with all the **** the pollyannas gave him for standing his ground, maybe he does have a chip on his shoulder about it. So what. He's still right and they're still wrong. And it's not like the staunchest of pollyanna's arent' still arguing it'll completely turn around. Some are going to be mad at you and others who predicted this mess for doing just that. Then they are going to be doubly mad because at least so far you and some others have turned out right. Then if by some quirk of fate the Sox turn things around they'll be even madder at all of you. So the only thing to do IMO is to continue to vent your honest opinions and let the chips fall where they may.

Craig Grebeck
06-01-2010, 11:09 AM
I think there's a perception that I'm rooting for this organization to fail. I'm not. I just want better defense. I want better offense. I want better pitching. What did this organization put all their chips in? Pitching -- and little else. That's a recipe for failure.

I want accountability for this. KW had, up until 2005, a remarkable track record of being a tick above mediocrity, never finishing with a losing record. 2005 was a combination of many factors -- mainly all-time levels of elite pitching and defense -- and that bought KW some time. 2006 was great, but ultimately disappointing. What 2007-2010 have shown me, and others, is that the current organizational philosophy is not going to result in much success. Operating an organization that only focuses on the accumulation of major league talent will not result in perennial success. By taking on team's bad contracts (Rios, Peavy), we expressed a willingness to spend money, and in Alex's case it's paid off. In Peavy's, I'm not so sure -- and I think that move reflected KW's greatest flaw, his impatience (see: Swisher, Nick).

munchman33
06-01-2010, 11:17 AM
I think there's a perception that I'm rooting for this organization to fail. I'm not. I just want better defense. I want better offense. I want better pitching. What did this organization put all their chips in? Pitching -- and little else. That's a recipe for failure.

I want accountability for this. KW had, up until 2005, a remarkable track record of being a tick above mediocrity, never finishing with a losing record. 2005 was a combination of many factors -- mainly all-time levels of elite pitching and defense -- and that bought KW some time. 2006 was great, but ultimately disappointing. What 2007-2010 have shown me, and others, is that the current organizational philosophy is not going to result in much success. Operating an organization that only focuses on the accumulation of major league talent will not result in perennial success. By taking on team's bad contracts (Rios, Peavy), we expressed a willingness to spend money, and in Alex's case it's paid off. In Peavy's, I'm not so sure -- and I think that move reflected KW's greatest flaw, his impatience (see: Swisher, Nick).

You hate the White Sox!

canOcorn
06-01-2010, 12:57 PM
As someone who has called for Ozzie's head, why would you think a change in manager would help if you think JR is taking the cheap, easy way out? If such is actually the case (not arguing one way or the other), then changing the manager and/or the GM will probably have minimal effect on how the organization is managed.

Strictly talking about scouting, drafting and developing young talent. We currently have a MLB payroll that can compete, if spent wisely.

asindc
06-01-2010, 01:00 PM
Strictly talking about scouting, drafting and developing young talent. We currently have a MLB payroll that can compete, if spent wisely.

Fair enough, but do you really think we would be only 2-3 games out of first instead of eight games out if we had a different GM and manager? In other words, Do Quentin, Beckham, Teahen, AJ, and Pierre all bat more than .220 for the first month of the season if Gardenhire, for instance, was managing the team?

canOcorn
06-01-2010, 01:24 PM
Fair enough, but do you really think we would be only 2-3 games out of first instead of eight games out if we had a different GM and manager? In other words, Do Quentin, Beckham, Teahen, AJ, and Pierre all bat more than .220 for the first month of the season if Gardenhire, for instance, was managing the team?

I don't know, we might be. I'm confident we wouldn't be worse if Walker and Ozzie were not in our dugout.

Hitmen77
06-02-2010, 03:28 PM
On June 1, we are 8.5 games back.

The last time we were at least that far back at this point in the season was 2001 when we were 21-30 and 13.5 games out of first. We did finish that season at 83-79, but never came even close to 1st place.

Actually in 2003, we were 8.5 back on June 13 and got into a 1st place tie on August 1 thanks to winning 13 of 14 in late July......but that team didn't have Ozzie's dynamic duo of Kotsay and Jones at DH.