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NUKE_CLEVELAND
06-19-2002, 11:23 PM
Doesn't this idiot ever learn from his mistakes?!!?!? How many times has Foulke had problems when he's pitched more than one inning. I'd say EVERY TIME! This guy has proven time and again that he cannot pitch more than one inning & tonight was no different.



:firejerry

MattSharp
06-19-2002, 11:23 PM
I feel your pain.

HawkDJ
06-19-2002, 11:24 PM
The sad part is it all started with a leadoff strikeout.

oldcomiskey
06-19-2002, 11:25 PM
uh scuse me but wasnt rocky on the mound when we blew this one

NUKE_CLEVELAND
06-19-2002, 11:25 PM
One day you will be able to get more than 3 guys out without giving up anything.

MABYE


:firejerry

NUKE_CLEVELAND
06-19-2002, 11:27 PM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey
uh scuse me but wasnt rocky on the mound when we blew this one

uh Foulke put the guys on


uh

doublem23
06-19-2002, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND


uh Foulke put the guys on


uh

True, but you can't say Rocky didn't have a hand in this...

three straight hits.

That won't get it done (Generally, giving up hits doesn't promote winning baseball, at least that's how they taught me how to play).

But you are right, most of the blame for tonight's L is on the shoulders of Jerry Manuel and Keith Foulke.

oldcomiskey
06-19-2002, 11:35 PM
Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND


uh Foulke put the guys on


uh

who gives a ****--we lost

doublem23
06-19-2002, 11:38 PM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey


who gives a ****--we lost

Yeah, old has the right 'tude.

duke of dorwood
06-19-2002, 11:40 PM
We got

1. Quality Start
2. Some timely hitting

And we still lost. We should've won this one.

Tragg
06-19-2002, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by doublem23


True, but you can't say Rocky didn't have a hand in this...

three straight hits.


4 games in 5 days.

Foulke had 4 in 6 days.

Both were way overworked.

duke of dorwood
06-19-2002, 11:45 PM
I wish we'd have kept Ginter and left Harris. The extra arm would look good tonight. We are one day closer to Crede and LTP

NUKE_CLEVELAND
06-19-2002, 11:45 PM
Originally posted by Tragg


4 games in 5 days.

Foulke had 4 in 6 days.

Both were way overworked.

Yep, but so are Nardi & Jerry. All those trips to the mound & all those late night trips to the Ice Cream parlor with Roycie have Those two smoked.

:hitless

"Daddy, I want my ice cream!!!"


:jerry

"Hang on a minute son, let me make another dumba$$ pitching change"

Tragg
06-19-2002, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND


Yep, but so are Nardi & Jerry. All those trips to the mound & all those late night trips to the Ice Cream parlor with Roycie have Those two smoked.

:hitless

"Daddy, I want my ice cream!!!"


:jerry

"Hang on a minute son, let me make another dumba$$ pitching change"

My personal suspicion is that ugly Manuel beard is in-grown into his brain.

Daver
06-19-2002, 11:48 PM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
I wish we'd have kept Ginter and left Harris. The extra arm would look good tonight. We are one day closer to Crede and LTP

If you think you are going to see Borchard here this season keep dreaming.Only a new CBA can insure that,don't hold your breath waiting for it.

bc2k
06-20-2002, 12:17 AM
Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND
Doesn't this idiot ever learn from his mistakes?!!?!? How many times has Foulke had problems when he's pitched more than one inning. I'd say EVERY TIME! This guy has proven time and again that he cannot pitch more than one inning & tonight was no different.



:firejerry

Great title NUKE CLEVELAND. Manuel has always been believed in the method of letting the young pitchers get a little success and then take them out before they can give up runs and hurt their confidence. Manuel should have done the same with Foulke tonight. He is slowly gaining confidence and he did so in the eighth inning. Foulke isn't Mo Rivera who regularly goes two innings to earn the save.

And if anybody was to go two innings tonight, it should have been Glover. He was just a starter, he is stretched out and would have had no problem going two innings.

jklm
06-20-2002, 12:19 AM
Originally posted by Tragg


My personal suspicion is that ugly Manuel beard is in-grown into his brain.

LOL. How about Nardi?

Foulke and Rocky did not get the job done... but they have been overworked lately. With his managing style, Manuel needs a 12-man pitching staff...

idseer
06-20-2002, 12:31 AM
Originally posted by bc2k


Manuel has always been believed in the method of letting the young pitchers get a little success and then take them out before they can give up runs and hurt their confidence.

and does this system work? i'd say not!

JM raises *****s for pitchers. you say he's trying to instill confidence ... i say he STEALS their confidence! they know he hasn't got a clue. they were there when he took buehrle out in that 7th inning not long ago ... after leaving wright (?) in the night before. they KNOW he's a guess manager! and he has WAY too much faith in certain players. he will continue to use foulke for another 3rd or more of the season, never quite believing he doesn't have it anymore. meanwhile we'll be plowed under.

need number 1 ... hire a new manager .... ANYONE! the change alone will do wonders.

Lip Man 1
06-20-2002, 12:35 AM
Just a few more points worth mentioning....

This is the 6th time this season the Sox took a lead into the 7th inning or later and lost the game....

Only twice this year have the Sox trailed in the 7th inning or later and wound up winning the game....

Nardi came out to the mound again in the 9th to speak with Biddle and the next batter promptly got a hit. Does anybody know how many times in a row that's happened? Seems like EVERY TIME Nardi walks out, the next batter drills one...

and finally it wasn't bad enough that Jeremy Giambi killed the Sox with the A's, now he's doing it with the Phils (Home Run last night, drew a walk to start the rally tonight) Do you think our coaching staff and advance scouts need to recommend pitching him differently?????

Lip

Soxheads
06-20-2002, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by jklm


LOL. How about Nardi?

Foulke and Rocky did not get the job done... but they have been overworked lately. With his managing style, Manuel needs a 12-man pitching staff...

:jerry

"Anyone who can get a ball over that plate can pitch for us!"

Paulwny
06-20-2002, 06:50 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1

Do you think our coaching staff and advance scouts need to recommend pitching him differently?????
Lip

With JR counting every $$$, do we have advance scouts?

chisoxfanatic
06-20-2002, 09:54 AM
Anyone care to get Embree back?

Heather the Redbird

soxrme
06-20-2002, 10:07 AM
Foulke should have been taken out after the 1st walk. You guys are right though JM lost this game. Garland only pitched 97 pitches. Whoever came up with this 100 pitch only thing is idiot. If a 22 year old guy can't pitch more than that something is wrong. Jack McDowell said on the radio the other day that he doesn't believe in it either. JM has troubles going up against the National League anyway. Todd R pinch hitting. Somebody please tell the big skirt to stand closer to the damn plate!!!!!!

Clarkdog
06-20-2002, 10:42 AM
If Foulke is the closer, he should close games.

If Foulke is the setup man, he should hold games.

Pitching the 8th, and then having him pitch the 9th, is having him both hold and save. Foulke has never, ever succeded with any frequency in that type of situation. That has to be in your little binder somewhere.

Foulke should also never attempt to close a tie game, because the game isn't in a position to close.

Closers have a mentality and a mindset, take them out of it and you are bound to affect thier performance.

After that loss, the shot of Foulke hanging his head on the bench was disheartening and bound to affect the team's confidence. This guy doesn't need Nardi, he needs a head shrinker. But it wouldn't hurt if he could throw the palm ball around the strike zone once in a while.

pudge
06-20-2002, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
I wish we'd have kept Ginter and left Harris. The extra arm would look good tonight. We are one day closer to Crede and LTP

This is a great point that I had forgotten about, but I worred about that move when we made it, we've had to tap our bullpen so much, and with the pitcher's batting in the NL, doesn't that mean you'd want MORE arms to choose from? I don't know because I haven't watched much NL baseball recently... I like Harris as a PH running option, but Ginter would have been nice to have.

Scotty347
06-20-2002, 02:33 PM
(first time posting - i've been a reader for a few months now)

If you ask me, this one all falls on Jerry Manuel. Foulke pitched a good 8th, did his job. He never should have been out in the 9th. But as soon as he ran into trouble, Osuna should have been in the game. Why the hell would he bring in Rocky Biddle? Osuna has been great since starting closing. It just doesn't make any sense. Nobody on this team can possibly know their role right now. From the pitching staff to Royce (permanently benched) to Carlos (2 HR = benching) Lee to Jeff Liefer (please put me in Triple A). Unless Osuna was hurt I just don't get it. Foulke should have never started the 9th and Biddle shouldn't have been the one to try to bail him out of trouble. It is hard to watch this manager manage this team down the tubes.

Daver
06-20-2002, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by Scotty347
(first time posting - i've been a reader for a few months now)

If you ask me, this one all falls on Jerry Manuel. Foulke pitched a good 8th, did his job. He never should have been out in the 9th. But as soon as he ran into trouble, Osuna should have been in the game. Why the hell would he bring in Rocky Biddle? Osuna has been great since starting closing. It just doesn't make any sense. Nobody on this team can possibly know their role right now. From the pitching staff to Royce (permanently benched) to Carlos (2 HR = benching) Lee to Jeff Liefer (please put me in Triple A). Unless Osuna was hurt I just don't get it. Foulke should have never started the 9th and Biddle shouldn't have been the one to try to bail him out of trouble. It is hard to watch this manager manage this team down the tubes.

Welcome aboard.

Leifer has to clear waivers to be sent down,he is out of options.

pudge
06-20-2002, 07:47 PM
Originally posted by Scotty347
(first time posting - i've been a reader for a few months now)

Osuna should have been in the game. Why the hell would he bring in Rocky Biddle? Osuna has been great since starting closing. It just doesn't make any sense.

Welcome Scott - no surprise that yesterday's game is what provoked you to finally post - Osuna was not available because of his lengthy performance in the extra-inning game the night before (a point I think many are forgetting). But what someone else mentioned was that Garland should have gone one more, this eliminating the need for Foulke to pitch 2. I guess you could argue even if Osuna pitched a lot the night before, he's still a better option to get out of a tough jam. Either way, JM is clueless.