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View Full Version : Gonazles on Beckham


Johnny Mostil
05-26-2010, 09:30 AM
Mark Gonzales had an interesting perspective on Gordon Beckham's swing in the Tribune today. See what is currently the first Q&A here (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-100525-white-sox-mailbag,0,1508794.story). Gonzales thinks Beckham's pitch selection has improved but he doesn't think he'll modify his mechanics much. Just wondering what those who have seen more games this year than I have think of all this.

Go Sox!

SI1020
05-26-2010, 09:49 AM
IMO Joe Crede had a similar problem and whoever did or didn't work with him he modified his swing and became a really clutch hitter. Of course then his back problem did him in. Gordon either has to fix this or we'll be speaking of him in the past tense soon.

LoveYourSuit
05-26-2010, 10:53 AM
Promote whoever was his hitting coach down at AA or AAA and fire Walker.


Beckham should be the only guy on this offense who matters, because he is the future.

TDog
05-26-2010, 02:08 PM
IMO Joe Crede had a similar problem and whoever did or didn't work with him he modified his swing and became a really clutch hitter. Of course then his back problem did him in. Gordon either has to fix this or we'll be speaking of him in the past tense soon.

An interesting comparison.

Greg Walker worked very hard with Joe Crede on his hitting for a number of years, first in Charlotte (where Crede was a .300 hitter in his second season) and then after both of them were promoted to the White Sox where he started to become a dangerous offensive player in 2005 and was an even more solid offensive player in 2006 before back problems caught up with him.

My guess is that Walker is working hard with Beckham, and Beckham is working to correct his mechanics while working to improve his pitch recognition. You can't simply assume by watching Beckham that he isn't working or that the problem is that the the current hitting coach either isn't working with him or doesn't know what he is doing when he is.

khan
05-26-2010, 02:18 PM
My guess is that Walker is working hard with Beckham, and Beckham is working to correct his mechanics while working to improve his pitch recognition. You can't simply assume by watching Beckham that he isn't working or that the problem is that the the current hitting coach either isn't working with him or doesn't know what he is doing when he is.

Actually, Beckham is on record for NOT going to Walker.

I don't know who is indicted more in this case, Walker or Beckham.

I can say this, however:

1. Beckham should have been in Charlotte awhile ago. He'd been doing so poorly that it is hard to imagine anyone doing worse than he.

2. I'm getting ****ing sick of his bitching to the umps every chance he gets. [And the entire team, for that matter.] Beckham is a young guy learning a bad habit, IMO. He should grow the **** up and shut the **** up.

WhiteSoxFTW
05-26-2010, 05:36 PM
Actually, Beckham is on record for NOT going to Walker.

I don't know who is indicted more in this case, Walker or Beckham.

That is true. He has said that he knows he can go to Walker, but he wants to work this out on his own.

soltrain21
05-26-2010, 05:39 PM
Well, maybe he should swallow his pride and go to Walker, then. Because what he is doing by himself sure the hell isn't working.

ilsox7
05-26-2010, 05:44 PM
Well, maybe he should swallow his pride and go to Walker, then. Because what he is doing by himself sure the hell isn't working.

If this is true, then the solution is simple. Someone tells Gordon he has two choices: spend hours with Walker or enjoy the buses in AA. Yes, AA.

This is what I mean when I talk about accountability in the organization. it just seems that it is . . . lacking.

Noneck
05-26-2010, 05:55 PM
I know this means absolutely nothing but after watching tens of thousands of all varieties of baseball, it appears to me he has a hitch in his swing. No I don't think I know more than a pro hitting coach, just something I think I see.

GAsoxfan
05-26-2010, 06:12 PM
Greg Walker worked very hard with Joe Crede on his hitting for a number of years, first in Charlotte (where Crede was a .300 hitter in his second season) and then after both of them were promoted to the White Sox where he started to become a dangerous offensive player in 2005 and was an even more solid offensive player in 2006 before back problems caught up with him.


Crede was a clutch hitter, but overall he was a poor offensive player. He only hit over .261 once and his highest OBP was .323. If that's Walker's success story, that's not good.

PalehosePlanet
05-26-2010, 06:15 PM
Well, maybe he should swallow his pride and go to Walker, then. Because what he is doing by himself sure the hell isn't working.

It's absolutely ridiculous that it's Beckham's option to seek help.

ilsox7
05-26-2010, 06:23 PM
It's absolutely ridiculous that it's Beckham's option to seek help.

Thank you! As I said, Gordon should have two options right now. Take it or leave it, buddy.

balke
05-26-2010, 07:13 PM
That is true. He has said that he knows he can go to Walker, but he wants to work this out on his own.

I never heard him say this. That's very scary - I'm pretty sure Brian Anderson went the same route.

TDog
05-26-2010, 07:28 PM
Crede was a clutch hitter, but overall he was a poor offensive player. He only hit over .261 once and his highest OBP was .323. If that's Walker's success story, that's not good.

That probably passes for astute analysis with people who believe they don't need to watch people play because they have the stats.

Even so, Crede was hitting in the .220s in June 2005 and came on to be one of the go-to hitters on the team, although he only ended up with an average in the .250s. The next season, he hit over .280, and that was the last full season he had, and even his subsequent partial seasons were affected by his back injury. But regardless of the numbers, anyone who watched Joe Crede play for the Sox could see he was a remarkably better hitter in 2006 than he was in 2004.

And I know for a fact that Greg Walker worked hard with Crede to bring about that improvement.

While I was on the road today, I was listening to KNBR on my car radio, and the announcers were telling listeners that it isn't Giants hitting coach Hensley Meulens' fault that Juan Uribe is a poor hitter who gets himself out too much, just as it wasn't now-fired hitting Carney Lansford's fault last year. And people at WSI point to Uribe's averages to show that he has had better hitting coaches since leaving the White Sox. If you watch him play, you see no difference.

It was funny stuff.

russ99
05-26-2010, 07:42 PM
If this is true, then the solution is simple. Someone tells Gordon he has two choices: spend hours with Walker or enjoy the buses in AA. Yes, AA.

This is what I mean when I talk about accountability in the organization. it just seems that it is . . . lacking.

I see what you're saying, but that could easily make things worse. Big leaguers today don't respond to that kind of mentality the way they used to. You don't build a guy up as a potential franchise cornerstone, then kick his butt back to AA as punishment.

That said, what could it hurt to send Bacon to Charlotte for 2 weeks? The way to do that is a means to take the pressure off and help get his swing straight, not as a threat.

I suspect the Sox don't want to do that since they're using him as a selling point, not because they have no accountability.

ilsox7
05-26-2010, 07:49 PM
I see what you're saying, but that could easily make things worse. Big leaguers today don't respond to that kind of mentality the way they used to. You don't build a guy up as a potential franchise cornerstone, then kick his butt back to AA as punishment.

That said, what could it hurt to send Bacon to Charlotte for 2 weeks? The way to do that is a means to take the pressure off and help get his swing straight, not as a threat.

I suspect the Sox don't want to do that since they're using him as a selling point, not because they have no accountability.

If they are making this decision based on Beckham as a selling point, then I don't know what to say. The kid looks like a mess. I have no problem with Beckham saying he wants to work his way out of a slump, initially. But we're going on two months of garbage from him. If he is refusing any additional thoughts or help, then the answer is clear to me. Pack your bags, kid.

My hunch is that Walker and others are working with him. But if he flat-out refused, I would have MAJOR problems with that, as should the Sox. And I think it does go back to accountability. If the Sox are not sending him down b/c of marketing reasons, then they are essentially sending Beckham the message that he does not have to be accountable for his play b/c the team has a marketing campaign based around him.

Finally, I think Beckham should not be sent down (unless the above scenario is true). I would prefer to let him grind it out and figure this out over the next 6 weeks and reevaluate then.

pmck003
05-26-2010, 11:31 PM
Gotta remember alot of players go through a sophomore slump. Living in Denver I watched Tulo go through one in the first half of his sophomore year. Its not too surprising Beckham would need a learning period of sorts considering his fast rise. I agree he has to carry himself the right way, and if the team thinks he needs to work with a coach he would need to be open to accepting help.

guillen4life13
05-26-2010, 11:36 PM
I know this means absolutely nothing but after watching tens of thousands of all varieties of baseball, it appears to me he has a hitch in his swing. No I don't think I know more than a pro hitting coach, just something I think I see.

I've said it before, and I only played Pony league for a year, but this was elementary hitting: keep your eyes on the ball. Beckham's head doesn't seem to turn as the ball is passing him. From what I was taught, your head should be facing the ball when you make contact. Beckham seems to be looking straight ahead through his whole swing.

But, to quote Daver's seemingly retired phrase, "then again, what the hell do I know?"

wassagstdu
05-27-2010, 07:44 AM
Beckham's hitch looks exaggerated to me, compared to the swing I seem to remember from last year, which was a lot quicker. Does anyone else have the same perception?

GAsoxfan
05-27-2010, 08:12 AM
That probably passes for astute analysis with people who believe they don't need to watch people play because they have the stats.

Even so, Crede was hitting in the .220s in June 2005 and came on to be one of the go-to hitters on the team, although he only ended up with an average in the .250s. The next season, he hit over .280, and that was the last full season he had, and even his subsequent partial seasons were affected by his back injury. But regardless of the numbers, anyone who watched Joe Crede play for the Sox could see he was a remarkably better hitter in 2006 than he was in 2004.

And I know for a fact that Greg Walker worked hard with Crede to bring about that improvement.

While I was on the road today, I was listening to KNBR on my car radio, and the announcers were telling listeners that it isn't Giants hitting coach Hensley Meulens' fault that Juan Uribe is a poor hitter who gets himself out too much, just as it wasn't now-fired hitting Carney Lansford's fault last year. And people at WSI point to Uribe's averages to show that he has had better hitting coaches since leaving the White Sox. If you watch him play, you see no difference.

It was funny stuff.

Even hitting .280, he only had an OBP of .323. I can agree with you that Crede was "solid", but that's probably the top end for him. If Beckham ends up as a "solid" hitter, his career will be a huge disappointment.

balke
05-27-2010, 12:05 PM
Even hitting .280, he only had an OBP of .323. I can agree with you that Crede was "solid", but that's probably the top end for him. If Beckham ends up as a "solid" hitter, his career will be a huge disappointment.


Ozzie made quotes a few times with Josh Fields in the minors hitting like he was - Crede was only around because of his glove. Ozzie said Crede didn't hit like a major league third baseman should. That glove was well worth the trade off though - and lucky for him his hits were quite clutch.

Sucks that Crede and Fields both hit so well in the minors - and the bats went dead in the majors.

slavko
05-27-2010, 06:46 PM
I've said it before, and I only played Pony league for a year, but this was elementary hitting: keep your eyes on the ball. Beckham's head doesn't seem to turn as the ball is passing him. From what I was taught, your head should be facing the ball when you make contact. Beckham seems to be looking straight ahead through his whole swing.

But, to quote Daver's seemingly retired phrase, "then again, what the hell do I know?"


He doesn't see the ball to the bat, you are correct. He doesn't alter his erect stance to go after lower or higher pitches, but changes the bat angle, resulting in a non-level swing. His left hip move to start the swing looks like a hitch, but I prefer not to call it one. And, his sophomore slump started last August.

TDog
05-27-2010, 06:53 PM
Even hitting .280, he only had an OBP of .323. I can agree with you that Crede was "solid", but that's probably the top end for him. If Beckham ends up as a "solid" hitter, his career will be a huge disappointment.

Of course, Beckham's potential is mostly with his offense, whereas Crede's potential was mostly with his defense. Beckham wasn't projected to be a great glove man.

Crede only comes into this discussion because he worked hard with Walker to become a reach his offensive potential and become a solid hitter. Beckham apparently isn't working with Walker to reach his offensive potential.