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View Full Version : *Official* 'Let The Bit.. Eh, Mitch Session Begin' 5/25 White Sox vs CLE Postgame Thr


soxinem1
05-25-2010, 08:22 PM
This Jekyll and Hyde act is unreal.

Peavy's remarks about beating the teams you need to started with him tonight. Gotta lead by example, big guy!

Kotsay getting thrown out by ten feet at third for the second out in the seventh sure didn't help, either.

GoGoCrede
05-25-2010, 08:23 PM
Oh well. :(:

MushMouth
05-25-2010, 08:23 PM
peavy reminds me of a skinny david wells

WhiteSox5187
05-25-2010, 08:23 PM
This Jekyll and Hyde act is unreal.

Peavy's remarks about beating the teams you need to started with him tonight. Gotta lead by example, big buy!

Kotsay getting thrown out by ten feet at third for the second out in the seventh sure didn't help, either.

I know, Peavy has to back up his talk. This team is just a bad team. It's as simple as that. Anyone who thinks they can make the playoffs this year is out of their mind.

BadBobbyJenks
05-25-2010, 08:24 PM
We suck, enjoy it when we win because we are going to lose far more often.

October26
05-25-2010, 08:25 PM
Disappointing loss. :(: Was looking to Peavy to lead by example and he was bad tonight. Oh well.

Crede24Thome25
05-25-2010, 08:25 PM
I'm just hoping we don't have a Zito situation here with Peavy, even though the contracts are no where near the same.

JB98
05-25-2010, 08:25 PM
Ehh...I expect to lose. Not surprised by tonight's developments.

soxinem1
05-25-2010, 08:26 PM
I'll bet in the team meeting the 'easy' upcoming schedule was brought up, and the team thinks they can rebound during that part of the season.

But honestly, if this crap continues, this roster should be treated like a scrap yard: a lot of junk here, but a lot of parts exist that can be sold too.

Frater Perdurabo
05-25-2010, 08:28 PM
We should know by about 2 p.m. tomorrow if it's time to back up the truck.

Win and they deserve a stay of execution.

Lose and things could get ugly in a hurry with four in Tampa.

palehozenychicty
05-25-2010, 08:28 PM
Well, Jake needs to get his mind and body right for the next start. Cleveland is holding us back this year.

soxinem1
05-25-2010, 08:30 PM
I'm just hoping we don't have a Zito situation here with Peavy, even though the contracts are no where near the same.

I'm not giving up on Peavy, but the contracts are not all that different either.

Zito is pitching well, as Clayton Richard is for SD. That is where the difference is right now.

PhillipsBubba
05-25-2010, 08:30 PM
Peavy's remarks about beating the teams you need to started with him tonight. Gotta lead by example, big guy!

Peavy is learning how tough it is to pitch in the American League, As far as Kotsay..well, that just solidifies their title as the stupidest team in baseball.

october23sp
05-25-2010, 08:32 PM
I'm really sick of the excuses for Peavy, he's supposed to be an ace but his ERA is just over 6. No excuse for that.

soxinem1
05-25-2010, 08:32 PM
Peavy is learning how tough it is to pitch in the American League, As far as Kotsay..well, that just solidifies their title as the stupidest team in baseball.

If a lineup without two of its best hitters is tough, then it will be a L-O-O-O-O-O-N-N-N-G year for Mr. Peavy.

WhiteSox5187
05-25-2010, 08:33 PM
We should know by about 2 p.m. tomorrow if it's time to back up the truck.

Win and they deserve a stay of execution.

Lose and things could get ugly in a hurry with four in Tampa.

If we lose tomorrow, there is no reason for most of the starting roster to be here by the end of June. We're not going to lose two of three to Cleveland and then bounce back to do well against Tampa.

Slappy
05-25-2010, 08:34 PM
Damn. I just was not expecting this at all this year from Peavy. Granted I hardly ever saw him pitch before he came here, but still. His 'stuff' doesn't look dominating at all. The best thing I can say about him is the movement on his 2-seamer. When it's moving it's a good pitch, but when he's the slightest bit off, he looks completely mediocre and hittable. He's just not keeping hitters off balance at all or mixing up his pitches effectively. This was a bad Indians team that we should have beat if we're going anywhere.

kittle42
05-25-2010, 08:34 PM
Nice to see the real 2010 Sox return after a victory yesterday.

WhiteSox5187
05-25-2010, 08:34 PM
If a lineup without two of its best hitters is tough, then it will be a L-O-O-O-O-O-N-N-N-G year for Mr. Peavy.

I am convinced he is hurting. I don't think he can be this bad.

Boondock Saint
05-25-2010, 08:35 PM
2-6 versus Cleveland. About all that needs to be said right there.

Tragg
05-25-2010, 08:35 PM
We don't have a Zito situation because the Giants didn't trade 3 of their top 4 pitching prospects did for Zito, which is what Ken Williams did for Peavy.
I realize he pulled him sight unseen from the disabled list but does anyone do any scouting in this organization? This endless sojourn for the "staff ace" keeps getting worse and worse.

It will really be nice when Williams starts giving away players for salary relief with no prospects in return...that will begin probably at the end of interleague play.

And can't we pull pitchers when the Sox are behind BEFORE they pitch us out of the game. The pen is not overworked.

Frater Perdurabo
05-25-2010, 08:39 PM
But honestly, if this crap continues, this roster should be treated like a scrap yard: a lot of junk here, but a lot of parts exist that can be sold too.

These players can be dealt without alienating the fan base:
Linebrink (take a warm bucket of piss just to unload his salary);
Teahen (see above);
Jones (might net a decent prospect if dealt before his BA drops further);
Kotsay (get a B-prospect from a contender needing a pinch hitter).

Put Hudson in the pen for long relief. Play Vizquel at third every day for his defense. Call up Viciedo to DH.

JB98
05-25-2010, 08:39 PM
We don't have a Zito situation because the Giants didn't trade 3 of their top 4 pitching prospects did for Zito, which is what Ken Williams did for Peavy.
I realize he pulled him sight unseen from the disabled list but does anyone do any scouting in this organization? This endless sojourn for the "staff ace" keeps getting worse and worse.

It will really be nice when Williams starts giving away players for salary relief with no prospects in return...that will begin probably at the end of interleague play.

And can't we pull pitchers when the Sox are behind BEFORE they pitch us out of the game. The pen is not overworked.

Actually, it is. Garcia got knocked out in the third Sunday. Danks only went five last night.

Domeshot17
05-25-2010, 08:40 PM
Man is this team just down right bad.

Domeshot17
05-25-2010, 08:41 PM
These players can be dealt without alienating the fan base:
Linebrink (take a warm bucket of piss just to unload his salary);
Teahen (see above);
Jones (might net a decent prospect if dealt before his BA drops further);
Kotsay (get a B-prospect from a contender needing a pinch hitter).

Put Hudson in the pen for long relief. Play Vizquel at third every day for his defense. Call up Viciedo to DH.

We would be better off just putting a folding chair at 3rd and playing with Ghost runners.

soxinem1
05-25-2010, 08:43 PM
2-6 versus Cleveland. About all that needs to be said right there.

You can add the record against KC as well.

WhiteSox5187
05-25-2010, 08:43 PM
We would be better off just putting a folding chair at 3rd and playing with Ghost runners.

Vizquel can't hit a damn, but he can play defense still. If we're going to trade Teahen, I'd like to see what Morel can do. I also don't think anyone would take Linebrink, and I don't think we're going to get anything for Kotsay or Jones.

theamb
05-25-2010, 08:44 PM
I'm just hoping we don't have a Zito situation here with Peavy, even though the contracts are no where near the same.

How long until some want him banished to where he wanted to be in the first place?

I don't think Peavy is THIS bad. However, they don't call Petco Park in San Diego a pitcher's park for nothing.

Frater Perdurabo
05-25-2010, 08:46 PM
Dealing these players would save money but would signal "White Flag II:"

PK (to West Coast contender)
AJ (Texas?)
Jenks (Philly?)
Putz (see Jenks)
Pierre (anyone need a leadoff hitter?)

I have no interest in trading any starting pitcher, Santos, Thornton, Alexei or Rios. Beckham and Quentin may have trade value, but because of their potential and low cost it would be stupid to sell low on either one while they both are struggling.

WhiteSox5187
05-25-2010, 08:54 PM
Dealing these players would save money but would signal "White Flag II:"

PK (to West Coast contender)
AJ (Texas?)
Jenks (Philly?)
Putz (see Jenks)
Pierre (anyone need a leadoff hitter?)

I have no interest in trading any starting pitcher, Santos, Thornton, Alexei or Rios. Beckham and Quentin may have trade value, but because of their potential and low cost it would be stupid to sell low on either one while they both are struggling.

I wouldn't trade Beckham. Quentin I would trade if the offer were right. I have very little faith in his ability to come close to putting up 2008 like numbers again.

NLaloosh
05-25-2010, 08:57 PM
After watching tonight's game I have two questions:

1. What would the score have been with Grady Sizemore and Asdrubal Cabrera playing for Cleveland?

2. Could the Sox have acquired Mitch Talbot for Aaron Poreda, Clayton Richard, Adam Russell and Dexter Carter?

JB98
05-25-2010, 09:00 PM
After watching tonight's game I have two questions:

1. What would the score have been with Grady Sizemore and Asdrubal Cabrera playing for Cleveland?

2. Could the Sox have acquired Mitch Talbot for Aaron Poreda, Clayton Richard, Adam Russell and Dexter Carter?

Sizemore blows chunks this year. He might have made it easier for the Sox had he been playing.

tick53
05-25-2010, 09:00 PM
I can hardly watch anymore. :mad:

Craig Grebeck
05-25-2010, 09:03 PM
It's not astounding that Peavy is struggling. There were many, many critics out there who worried about a guy with his flyball tendencies getting by.

JB98
05-25-2010, 09:07 PM
It's not astounding that Peavy is struggling. There were many, many critics out there who worried about a guy with his flyball tendencies getting by.

But those critics believed Peavy would struggle at USCF. His numbers at home are actually significantly better than his numbers on the road.

Boondock Saint
05-25-2010, 09:08 PM
It's not astounding that Peavy is struggling. There were many, many critics out there who worried about a guy with his flyball tendencies getting by.

It's not his fly ball numbers, it's his hits and walks. Heading into tonight, his WHIP was 1.345

WhiteSox56
05-25-2010, 09:09 PM
Painful watching the Sox this year. We need to move some players:(:

Brian26
05-25-2010, 09:10 PM
We should know by about 2 p.m. tomorrow if it's time to back up the truck.

Win and they deserve a stay of execution.

Lose and things could get ugly in a hurry with four in Tampa.

I've been anticipating for the past two weeks that the Tampa series is the make or break point on the schedule. If the team were to suddenly show some magic in the Dome, perhaps the season isn't a lost cause. That might be their last chance though with AJ's 5/10 date coming up.

theamb
05-25-2010, 09:13 PM
Painful watching the Sox this year. We need to move some players:(:

The Mark Kotsay sweepstakes is going to be epic

canOcorn
05-25-2010, 09:15 PM
http://www.nait.ca/blogs/cerebraldischarge/files/2008/10/fork1.jpg

WhiteSox56
05-25-2010, 09:15 PM
The Mark Kotsay sweepstakes is going to be epic

I should have added that if we can actually move players.

NLaloosh
05-25-2010, 09:18 PM
I've been anticipating for the past two weeks that the Tampa series is the make or break point on the schedule. If the team were to suddenly show some magic in the Dome, perhaps the season isn't a lost cause. That might be their last chance though with AJ's 5/10 date coming up.

I think when we look back at this season we will see the make or break point as the first series of the season against Cleveland.

That's when they proved to be garbage and they've done absolutely nothing since to change that.

Frater Perdurabo
05-25-2010, 09:23 PM
Turn around their craptastic records against CLE and KC and they are .500 or better.

jabrch
05-25-2010, 09:23 PM
I think when we look back at this season we will see the make or break point as the first series of the season against Cleveland.

That's when they proved to be garbage and they've done absolutely nothing since to change that.



You must be right. No team ever has a bad series in April and turns it into a legitimate contender.

Yes - it was all proven in April...

Slappy
05-25-2010, 09:28 PM
It'll be June in a few days, jabrch! Sheesh...

Boondock Saint
05-25-2010, 09:41 PM
It'll be June in a few days, jabrch! Sheesh...

He was pointing out that someone claimed that the season was decided after a 1-2 start.

slavko
05-25-2010, 09:45 PM
peavy reminds me of a skinny david wells

I was thinking of an oil spill in the third inning. Or maybe it was just BP.

fram40
05-25-2010, 09:46 PM
I've been anticipating for the past two weeks that the Tampa series is the make or break point on the schedule. If the team were to suddenly show some magic in the Dome, perhaps the season isn't a lost cause. That might be their last chance though with AJ's 5/10 date coming up.

Short of selling their souls, how in the world could the Sox "suddenly show some magic" vs the Rays. Can we all say sweep?

I can't believe this team is this bad. I can't believe Peavy sucks, or that Floyd is horrible, or that Buerhle is still struggling.

But when 3/5 of your starting pitchers suck - just plain suck - there is no chance, no hope.

thomas35forever
05-25-2010, 09:56 PM
Peavy falls back to Earth just like that. He better not suck like this for the duration of his contract.

CHISOXFAN13
05-25-2010, 10:16 PM
After watching tonight's game I have two questions:

1. What would the score have been with Grady Sizemore and Asdrubal Cabrera playing for Cleveland?

2. Could the Sox have acquired Mitch Talbot for Aaron Poreda, Clayton Richard, Adam Russell and Dexter Carter?

Could Cabrera have had a better game than Jason Donald, his replacement? I doubt it.

veeter
05-25-2010, 10:24 PM
When they listed Talbot's pitches per inning, he had a stretch of like 5, 8, 7, 12, etc. That's ****ing pathetic. I'm beating a dead horse, but Sox hitters are clueless. They have no concept of the strike zone. Beckham has been transformed from a bad ass, quick wristed hitter- to a lame ass, guesser, who is lost. His confidence has been drained from his body. This regime is stale and has to go. Nobody seems accountable anymore. Ozzie should write on a baseball to himself, and ask why HE can't win anything. This team is a ****ing joke.

HangWiffum
05-25-2010, 10:29 PM
the sad thing is that they have so much bad money on this roster they cannot even blow it up and rebuild. this team is gonna suck for years to come.

veeter
05-25-2010, 10:32 PM
the sad thing is that they have so much bad money on this roster they cannot even blow it up and rebuild. this team is gonna suck for years to come.What gives me slight hope is Kenny Williams. He'll continue to do his thing. Hit some, miss some- but be active. After a loss like this, at least I know the GM is a pissed as I am. As bleak as it looks today, the Sox could win the division next year.

pudge
05-25-2010, 10:34 PM
You must be right. No team ever has a bad series in April and turns it into a legitimate contender.

Yes - it was all proven in April...

In most cases it actually is decided by April. It's amazing to me how many people don't want to admit that.

jabrch
05-25-2010, 10:43 PM
It'll be June in a few days, jabrch! Sheesh...

Absolutely...but that doesn't mean that we knew the team sucked after losing 2 of 3 in the first series of the season.

Slappy
05-25-2010, 10:47 PM
Well yeah, I guess. Hindsight is 20/20.

But you said April in your post, not the first 3 games, which is what I responding to. Just to clear that up.

Britt Burns
05-25-2010, 10:56 PM
I wonder, just theoretically speaking, what Kotsay would have to do to lose his spot in the lineup. An 0-50 streak? 0-100 with 2 errors a game? 0-150 and he beats up KW's grandmother?

SBSoxFan
05-25-2010, 11:00 PM
I wonder, just theoretically speaking, what Kotsay would have to do to lose his spot in the lineup. An 0-50 streak? 0-100 with 2 errors a game? 0-150 and he beats up KW's grandmother?

I don't understand why people are picking on Kotsay tonight. He's hitting .343 in his last 10 games and had 3 of the team's 8 hits tonight. I'm glad he's in the lineup right now.

TDog
05-25-2010, 11:17 PM
peavy reminds me of a skinny david wells

David Wells had no interest in playing for the White Sox and his pitching reflected that. Jake Peavy, on the other hand, shows lots of enthusiasm for playing for the White Sox, but he hasn't been a very good pitcher overall. Teams don't seem to fear him. For the second straight start, he spotted the opposition six runs before the White Sox could get on the board.

I knew the Sox were going to get to the Indians pitching sooner or later, but for the second Peavy start in a row, there was too much ground to make up. For the second Peavy start in a row, the White Sox would have won if he were the pitcher the White Sox are paying him to be.

jabrch
05-25-2010, 11:23 PM
Well yeah, I guess. Hindsight is 20/20.

But you said April in your post, not the first 3 games, which is what I responding to. Just to clear that up.

But if you follow that back one step, I was responding to someone who talked about the first series against Cleveland - which was the first series of the season...as being when he knew this team sucked. That's crap. I'm not saying the team hasn't played like **** Slaps....but for ****s sake...we didn't know that after the great Opening Day and 2 losses after that. No ****ing way.

jabrch
05-25-2010, 11:24 PM
I don't understand why people are picking on Kotsay tonight. He's hitting .343 in his last 10 games and had 3 of the team's 8 hits tonight. I'm glad he's in the lineup right now.

No kidding...people hate guys without even knowing what they hate them for....

Nelfox02
05-25-2010, 11:25 PM
I don't understand why people are picking on Kotsay tonight. He's hitting .343 in his last 10 games and had 3 of the team's 8 hits tonight. I'm glad he's in the lineup right now.


His performance the last few games has been okay, I think he is lighting rod more so for what he represents----here is a guy that likely would not even be on a contending team's roster, at best a bench warmer and for the Sox he is a key starter?

JB98
05-25-2010, 11:33 PM
I think Kotsay is taking a beating here for things that are not his fault.

DrCrawdad
05-25-2010, 11:37 PM
Jake Peavy = Todd Ritchie 2.0?

Except in all fairness to Todd Ritchie, Ritchie was probably better than Peavy in each pitcher's first 10 starts in a Sox uniform.

http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/sp/v/mlb/players_l/20100429/6872.jpg?x=65&y=85&xc=1&yc=1&wc=164&hc=215&q=100&sig=NwBEuDC6t.TE0vSL8zdSiw--http://www.ballen-photos.com/photos/images/ritchie-todd-1-cws.jpg

TDog
05-25-2010, 11:41 PM
I wonder, just theoretically speaking, what Kotsay would have to do to lose his spot in the lineup. An 0-50 streak? 0-100 with 2 errors a game? 0-150 and he beats up KW's grandmother?

Since the middle of the May, Kotsay has been the most consistently successful hitter on the White Sox, slightly ahead of Rios. Certainly, Kotsay is not the .300 hitter he once was, but he is one of the few White Sox players justifying his spot in the lineup.

guillensdisciple
05-26-2010, 12:57 AM
Peavy sucks

Craig Grebeck
05-26-2010, 01:04 AM
Since the middle of the May, Kotsay has been the most consistently successful hitter on the White Sox, slightly ahead of Rios. Certainly, Kotsay is not the .300 hitter he once was, but he is one of the few White Sox players justifying his spot in the lineup.
Since the middle of May. Less than two weeks ago. Let's have some perspective here.

TDog
05-26-2010, 01:14 AM
Since the middle of May. Less than two weeks ago. Let's have some perspective here.

I think my perspective was clear. I specified the dates. It is people who demand Kotsay should be benched who aren't putting things in the proper perspective.

Boondock Saint
05-26-2010, 01:22 AM
Jake Peavy = Todd Ritchie 2.0?

Except in all fairness to Todd Ritchie, Ritchie was probably better than Peavy in each pitcher's first 10 starts in a Sox uniform.

http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/sp/v/mlb/players_l/20100429/6872.jpg?x=65&y=85&xc=1&yc=1&wc=164&hc=215&q=100&sig=NwBEuDC6t.TE0vSL8zdSiw--http://www.ballen-photos.com/photos/images/ritchie-todd-1-cws.jpg

Peavy sucks

:dtroll:

Give me a ****ing break.

It's Dankerific
05-26-2010, 01:23 AM
Id take Rios' production and defense in a second over Kotsay, even from 2 weeks ago.

guillensdisciple
05-26-2010, 01:33 AM
:dtroll:

Give me a ****ing break.

Let me ask you a question, what part of his 6.07 era should I be getting my panties in a bunch about? Should I be RILED UP BECAUSE HE WANTS TO WIN WOOO WOW WOOOAAAA!!!!OHDHSASDAHOS!!!RFSHVCBIXA!!!!?????

No, here's a great idea for Jake: shut the **** up. Just shut the **** up. You suck, you talked a lot of talk and have done nothing. So, due to your consistent attempt at talking, I will and have the right to, make sure you understand how much I dislike your performance.

No, no trolling, but I refuse to glorify someone who is A underperforming and B raised himself to a level of expectation which he is not even coming close to meeting.


HE'S OUR WORST ****ING PITCHER GUY!!! Open your eyes.

So, you give me a ****ing break.

guillensdisciple
05-26-2010, 01:40 AM
What gives me slight hope is Kenny Williams. He'll continue to do his thing. Hit some, miss some- but be active. After a loss like this, at least I know the GM is a pissed as I am. As bleak as it looks today, the Sox could win the division next year.


Why is it always the ****ing division, why are we not talking world series? Argh, this mentality drives me crazy.

Nellie_Fox
05-26-2010, 01:51 AM
Why is it always the ****ing division, why are we not talking world series? Argh, this mentality drives me crazy.Because the only way you can get to the World Series is by winning the division. And how other FANS talk has no impact on it, so don't let it bother you.

It's Dankerific
05-26-2010, 01:59 AM
Because the only way you can get to the World Series is by winning the division. And how other FANS talk has no impact on it, so don't let it bother you.

How about the Wild Card?

CLR01
05-26-2010, 03:03 AM
Team is gearing up for a huge run, 110 wins may be possible.

Boondock Saint
05-26-2010, 04:00 AM
Let me ask you a question, what part of his 6.07 era should I be getting my panties in a bunch about? Should I be RILED UP BECAUSE HE WANTS TO WIN WOOO WOW WOOOAAAA!!!!OHDHSASDAHOS!!!RFSHVCBIXA!!!!?????

No, here's a great idea for Jake: shut the **** up. Just shut the **** up. You suck, you talked a lot of talk and have done nothing. So, due to your consistent attempt at talking, I will and have the right to, make sure you understand how much I dislike your performance.

No, no trolling, but I refuse to glorify someone who is A underperforming and B raised himself to a level of expectation which he is not even coming close to meeting.


HE'S OUR WORST ****ING PITCHER GUY!!! Open your eyes.

So, you give me a ****ing break.

There's a difference between "underperforming" and "sucks at baseball". Jake Peavy is underperforming. Randy Williams sucks at baseball. If you can't understand that, there's no helping you.

masloan
05-26-2010, 04:27 AM
There's a difference between "underperforming" and "sucks at baseball". Jake Peavy is underperforming. Randy Williams sucks at baseball. If you can't understand that, there's no helping you.

I am really disappointed in Cooper's work so far with Peavy. He is very talented and has extremely underperformed. What a disappointment this starting staff has become.

A. Cavatica
05-26-2010, 06:03 AM
I should have added that if we can actually move players.

Some players, like Vizquel and Randy Williams, should just be released.

DrCrawdad
05-26-2010, 07:11 AM
There's a difference between "underperforming" and "sucks at baseball". Jake Peavy is underperforming. Randy Williams sucks at baseball. If you can't understand that, there's no helping you.

I am really disappointed in Cooper's work so far with Peavy. He is very talented and has extremely underperformed. What a disappointment this starting staff has become.

I agree with you both. My earlier point about Peavy being Todd Ritchie 2.0. Clearly Peavy is a much better pitcher. But if you compare each guy's first 10 starts (well, I'm looking actually at Peavy's first 10 starts in 2010) Ritchie was better thru 10. Peavy has been that bad.

WhiteSox1989
05-26-2010, 08:10 AM
Peavy sucks
http://i48.tinypic.com/wl3nrr.gif

Jake Peavy does not suck.

He didn't pitch well last night, but he does not "suck".

asindc
05-26-2010, 08:41 AM
Id take Rios' production and defense in a second over Kotsay, even from 2 weeks ago.

Is there a Sox fan out there who wouldn't? :scratch:

asindc
05-26-2010, 08:46 AM
I wonder, just theoretically speaking, what Kotsay would have to do to lose his spot in the lineup. An 0-50 streak? 0-100 with 2 errors a game? 0-150 and he beats up KW's grandmother?

He does not have a spot in the lineup. He is a part-time player. Now if you are asking what he would have to do to get less playing time, he would probably have to go on a cold streak again. See post below.

I don't understand why people are picking on Kotsay tonight. He's hitting .343 in his last 10 games and had 3 of the team's 8 hits tonight. I'm glad he's in the lineup right now.

I think Kotsay is taking a beating here for things that are not his fault.

That's because some people would prefer Randy Winn or Bill Hall or Nick Punto.

soltrain21
05-26-2010, 08:51 AM
That's because some people would prefer Randy Winn or Bill Hall or Nick Punto.

Players that suck but will have an occasional hot streak? That sounds like....Mark Kotsay.

bunty_doghunter
05-26-2010, 08:52 AM
Team is gearing up for a huge run, 110 wins may be possible.
Over how many seasons?

Tragg
05-26-2010, 09:07 AM
Actually, it is. Garcia got knocked out in the third Sunday. Danks only went five last night.

It's not overworked. A few pitchers went an inning each on Monday...no pitcher pitched both Sunday and Monday.
I understand Guillen's theory....a comeback when were down 2+ is unlikely so why waste the pen given the impotent offense that he designed.
And while I'm on it, did Kotsay really get thrown out at 3rd stretching into a triple when we're down 4 runs?

These players can be dealt without alienating the fan base:
Linebrink (take a warm bucket of piss just to unload his salary);
Teahen (see above);
Jones (might net a decent prospect if dealt before his BA drops further);
Kotsay (get a B-prospect from a contender needing a pinch hitter).

Put Hudson in the pen for long relief. Play Vizquel at third every day for his defense. Call up Viciedo to DH.
I doubt anyone would take Linebrink or Teahan for salary. If they want them, take them. It remains mind boggling how Williams would trade for teahan, much less give him $5 mill a year.
Jones and Konerko might bring something; probably not worth trading Konerko due to his relationship with the fans; definitely trade Jones.
I maintain that our best chits continue to be Putz and to a lesser extent Pena and Jenks. PUtz is having a good season and he's proven that he has the guts to close. If you hold out with these guys, someone might really overpay. You could sign Putz back again in the offseason if you want him. I would even listen to offers for Thornton...the best lefty reliever in the league should fetch a good bit. We can bring up a few minor league pitchers to finish the season. Gotta set up for next year. But Williams hasn't been sharp with his trading recently...so hopefully he can rejuvenate too.

Kotsay - we'll need him if we trade a bunch of players. Heck, I like Kotsay .....as a utility player, not as a designated hitter, Oz.

CLR01
05-26-2010, 09:20 AM
Over how many seasons?


Of the rest of their games this year.

asindc
05-26-2010, 09:23 AM
Players that suck but will have an occasional hot streak? That sounds like....Mark Kotsay.

Yes, it does, but I was responding to the post below:

His performance the last few games has been okay, I think he is lighting rod more so for what he represents----here is a guy that likely would not even be on a contending team's roster, at best a bench warmer and for the Sox he is a key starter?

Kotsay is not a starter, he is a bench player. In response to Nelfox02's post, I simply gave examples of players on three contending teams' rosters that are getting significant playing time. My point is that apparently $203 or $136 million doesn't buy what it used to, or even $100 million.

jabrch
05-26-2010, 09:41 AM
My point is that apparently $203 or $136 million doesn't buy what it used to, or even $100 million.

Yeah....the dream of a team without holes hardly ever exists.

Even if guys who sucked before this year kept sucking, and sucking ferociously, most folks here still expected the rotation to be good enough (Top 5?) that we'd be hanging around...there was good reason to believe that. That was not "everyone having career years" - that was everyone doing what they have done. Other than Danks and Freddy, the other guys (the three making the most money) have not held up their end of the bargain.

Sure - the offense has sucked - badly - but now it is showing SOME signs of life. The pitching, if we are going to make any sort of run at respectability, will have to pitch more like we expected, and less like...dog****.

LoveYourSuit
05-26-2010, 09:52 AM
Yeah....the dream of a team without holes hardly ever exists.

Even if guys who sucked before this year kept sucking, and sucking ferociously, most folks here still expected the rotation to be good enough (Top 5?) that we'd be hanging around...there was good reason to believe that. That was not "everyone having career years" - that was everyone doing what they have done. Other than Danks and Freddy, the other guys (the three making the most money) have not held up their end of the bargain.

Sure - the offense has sucked - badly - but now it is showing SOME signs of life. The pitching, if we are going to make any sort of run at respectability, will have to pitch more like we expected, and less like...dog****.


Agreed.

The pitching staff has not earned a dime of their pay this year.

We should have been a top 3-5 staff and that should have been more than enough to keep us at around .500 regardless of a **** offense.

veeter
05-26-2010, 09:57 AM
Why is it always the ****ing division, why are we not talking world series? Argh, this mentality drives me crazy.If I had said the Sox could win the World Series next year...does that make any sense?

ChiSoxGirl
05-26-2010, 10:38 AM
Agreed.

The pitching staff has not earned a dime of their pay this year.

We should have been a top 3-5 staff and that should have been more than enough to keep us at around .500 regardless of a **** offense.

Two words: John Danks. That guy has done everything asked of him and then some and doesn't deserve to be lumped into that category. He has thrown quality start after quality start and has a 4-3 record to show for it. He had a tough outing Monday night, throwing over 100 pitches in five innings, but more often than not, he's pitched extremely well this season. Had Danks gotten run support in more than a couple outings, this guy would be at least 6-1, if not 7-0, by now. If I'm not mistaken, the seven runs his offense scored for him on Monday night and the eleven runs they scored for him in Toronto are among the most he's received this whole season. As far as I can remember (and I'm typing this without being able to refer to the statistics), every other time he's pitched, he's received no more than three runs in support of his pitching.

LoveYourSuit
05-26-2010, 11:09 AM
Two words: John Danks. That guy has done everything asked of him and then some and doesn't deserve to be lumped into that category. He has thrown quality start after quality start and has a 4-3 record to show for it. He had a tough outing Monday night, throwing over 100 pitches in five innings, but more often than not, he's pitched extremely well this season. Had Danks gotten run support in more than a couple outings, this guy would be at least 6-1, if not 7-0, by now. If I'm not mistaken, the seven runs his offense scored for him on Monday night and the eleven runs they scored for him in Toronto are among the most he's received this whole season. As far as I can remember (and I'm typing this without being able to refer to the statistics), every other time he's pitched, he's received no more than three runs in support of his pitching.



I was speaking of the pitching staff as a whole unit.

One word .... Fraud.

guillensdisciple
05-26-2010, 12:15 PM
If I had said the Sox could win the World Series next year...does that make any sense?


Should, that's all I ask.

Sometimes it seems like most are satisfied with just being there, and I don't see why we can't have the same expectations as the Yankees, Red Sox, or other "elite" teams.

It's Dankerific
05-26-2010, 12:28 PM
Is there a Sox fan out there who wouldn't? :scratch:

Well, I just meant after talk that supposedly Kotsay was outperforming Rios since mid may.

jabrch
05-26-2010, 01:27 PM
Should, that's all I ask.

Sometimes it seems like most are satisfied with just being there, and I don't see why we can't have the same expectations as the Yankees, Red Sox, or other "elite" teams.

When our revenues come close, I'll expect our expenditures to be close, and the results. Right now, get me there, with a chance to do more, and I am happy. Always willing to take more, but getting there is a heck of a start.