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rainbow6
05-24-2010, 09:08 PM
I'm curious if anyone thinks that Kenny Williams will attempt to acquire a third baseman (assuming the Sox are in striking distance this year) and move Teahen to a utility role (perhaps trading Kotsay).

I've gone on record as a big Williams fan but I'm concerned that the contract extension Teahen signed will keep him playing a position he is not suited for...

Of all the things that have gone wrong this season, watching routine balls bouncing off this dude is has been the most unsettling.

In my opnion this is a major test for Williams/Guillen - keep starting the worst fielding third baseman in the league or admit to a mistake and try to amend it.

voodoochile
05-24-2010, 09:25 PM
I'm curious if anyone thinks that Kenny Williams will attempt to acquire a third baseman (assuming the Sox are in striking distance this year) and move Teahen to a utility role (perhaps trading Kotsay).

I've gone on record as a big Williams fan but I'm concerned that the contract extension Teahen signed will keep him playing a position he is not suited for...

Of all the things that have gone wrong this season, watching routine balls bouncing off this dude is has been the most unsettling.

In my opnion this is a major test for Williams/Guillen - keep starting the worst fielding third baseman in the league or admit to a mistake and try to amend it.

If he starts to hit like he can (and he's been showing signs of breaking out of his slump recently) then you accept his defense for what it is, IMO.

I doubt they are going to acquire another 3B with both Viciedo and Morel coming up through the ranks. If they do start to unload guys then look for Teahen to be on the block and Viciedo to see some time in the bigs later this summer.

TDog
05-24-2010, 09:44 PM
If he starts to hit like he can (and he's been showing signs of breaking out of his slump recently) then you accept his defense for what it is, IMO.

I doubt they are going to acquire another 3B with both Viciedo and Morel coming up through the ranks. If they do start to unload guys then look for Teahen to be on the block and Viciedo to see some time in the bigs later this summer.

If Teahen hits up to his potential, his contract extension would make him more valuable on the trade market. If the White Sox were looking to upgrade defensively at third base, and if it were up to me, they would, through trade or promotion, Teahen could bring the White Sox more than they gave up to get him.

Noneck
05-24-2010, 09:55 PM
If Teahen hits up to his potential, his contract extension would make him more valuable on the trade market.

When you have been in the majors for 5 years and are 30 years old, your career stats will most probably be your potential. Break out years at this stage dont happen often. His stats and the down turn of the economy doesn't seem to make Teahen attractive to another club.

Craig Grebeck
05-24-2010, 09:56 PM
If Teahen hits like he can, we accept his defense? He's sucked the majority of his career with the bat. Why accept bad offense and defense?

Viciedo will never, ever see a second at third in the bigs. Morel could be here next summer, but the Sox are taking it slow with him.

DrCrawdad
05-24-2010, 11:11 PM
Is Morel a viable option this year? He does not seem to have much power, IIRC. How is Morel defensively?

Craig Grebeck
05-24-2010, 11:12 PM
Is Morel a viable option this year? He does not seem to have much power, IIRC. How is Morel defensively?
Not an option this year. Good to great defensively.

TDog
05-24-2010, 11:26 PM
When you have been in the majors for 5 years and are 30 years old, your career stats will most probably be your potential. Break out years at this stage dont happen often. His stats and the down turn of the economy doesn't seem to make Teahen attractive to another club.

I wasn't making any predictions. Many baseball people have long believed Teahen has the potential be be a better hitter.

NLaloosh
05-24-2010, 11:43 PM
Viciedo is a 1B or DH.

Morel is the future third baseman but probably not until 2012.

Until then, Mark Teahen.

CWSpalehoseCWS
05-25-2010, 01:24 AM
I don't see how the Sox could go after a stud 3B unless Morel is traded to get him. Maybe a rental-type player for 3B.

kittle42
05-25-2010, 01:27 AM
You guys are fooling yourselves if you think Teahen won't be at 3B on opening day next season.

BadBobbyJenks
05-25-2010, 01:42 AM
Hopefully Morel can hit at this level, because Teahen is nothing more than a utility player on a good team.

voodoochile
05-25-2010, 02:52 AM
Hopefully Morel can hit at this level, because Teahen is nothing more than a utility player on a good team.

If he can get back to his career average OPS with ~ 50 XBH like he has in years past, he's just fine batting in the bottom third of the order...

BadBobbyJenks
05-25-2010, 03:00 AM
If he can get back to his career average OPS with ~ 50 XBH like he has in years past, he's just fine batting in the bottom third of the order...

Is there a top 10 team in the majors that has a 3b hitting in the bottom 3 of the order?

voodoochile
05-25-2010, 03:02 AM
Is there a top 10 team in the majors that has a 3b hitting in the bottom 3 of the order?

Well what the heck does that have to do with anything? This isn't fantasy baseball...

BadBobbyJenks
05-25-2010, 03:05 AM
Well what the heck does that have to do with anything? This isn't fantasy baseball...

I didn't ask you a fantasy baseball question I asked you how many good teams have bottom of the order third basemen.

If he is a terrible 3rd baseman defensively than he better hit, which he doesn't.

voodoochile
05-25-2010, 03:13 AM
I didn't ask you a fantasy baseball question I asked you how many good teams have bottom of the order third basemen.

If he is a terrible 3rd baseman defensively than he better hit, which he doesn't.

Well sure, but if he's the only option we've got, he's not horrible either.

Here's the link to the Qualified 3B stats sorted by OPS:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/position/3b/sort/OPS/order/true

Now again, I qualified my statement by saying if he hits his career OPS with his career average XBH, the team wouldn't be hurting with him batting bottom third of the lineup.

I don't know where all these other guys hit. I also don't know if they have a better hitting CF or where those guys hit either. You can take a look at the link, figure it out and post the results.

Frankly I don't worry so much about that stuff and yeah, it sounds like a Fantasy baseball concern, not a real game concern.

BadBobbyJenks
05-25-2010, 03:15 AM
Well sure, but if he's the only option we've got, he's not horrible either.

Here's the link to the Qualified 3B stats sorted by OPS:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/position/3b/sort/OPS/order/true

Now again, I qualified my statement by saying if he hits his career OPS with his career average XBH, the team wouldn't be hurting with him batting bottom third of the lineup.

I don't know where all these other guys hit. I also don't know if they have a better hitting CF or where those guys hit either. You can take a look at the link, figure it out and post the results.

Frankly I don't worry so much about that stuff and yeah, it sounds like a Fantasy baseball concern, not a real game concern.

I guess I would just like to see the value of a terrible defensive 3b that cant crack your top 6 in the order.

VMSNS
05-25-2010, 03:18 AM
If I were Kenny Williams, I'd be doing everything in my power to get Mark Teahen off this club (or on the bench) as soon as humanly possible. That whole move just didn't make any sense to me. Not sure what Kenny was thinking on that one. What is his usefulness as far as the outfield goes? Didn't he play a lot of RF with Kansas City? The guy seems to have a decent arm, and if we're going to be stuck with him, we may as well put him in a place where he's comfortable.

Also, I didn't really like how the deal impacted Beckham. I was in favor of leaving Beckham at 3rd. Based on things Ozzie and Kenny were saying last season, it seemed like they were dead set on Beckham being the 3B of the future, which is why I never really understood why this deal even happened in the first place. Sticking the kid in the 2-spot as well as forcing him to learn a new position (2B) was just way too much pressure for him. Had they given him one or two seasons to acclimate to the position, I think he would have been an above-average 3B. Hell, he was starting to look quite good at the end of last season.

Anyway, sorry for the slight diversion. Regarding Teahen, it's clear that something needs to be done with him. I'm just not sure what...

NLaloosh
05-25-2010, 06:45 AM
Realistically, the Sox are not going to be able to dump Teahen anytime soon without taking a bath on the contract. So, they will keep him for a while atleast and hope that he hits like he can and improves his D for next year.

We've all followed the Sox and know that Kenny is not going to extend someone's contract for 3 years and then immediately dump him. He'll be around for a bit. And, he probably will play better.

However, I really do believe that Morel is the real deal and if that's the case the Sox are not in a bad position here at 3B. Most likely, Morel plays most of next year in Charlotte and if all goes well he comes up in 2012 and splits time with Teahen.

After that, Teahen will have one year on his contract and the Sox can keep him for utility or trade him.

Mohoney
05-25-2010, 07:02 AM
Realistically, the Sox are not going to be able to dump Teahen anytime soon without taking a bath on the contract.

After this entire offseason came and went and Scott Linebrink wasn't traded, I'm now convinced that the White Sox will NEVER eat ANY contract on a traded player.

Chrisaway
05-25-2010, 07:43 AM
Well sure, but if he's the only option we've got, he's not horrible either.

Here's the link to the Qualified 3B stats sorted by OPS:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/position/3b/sort/OPS/order/true

Now again, I qualified my statement by saying if he hits his career OPS with his career average XBH, the team wouldn't be hurting with him batting bottom third of the lineup.

I don't know where all these other guys hit. I also don't know if they have a better hitting CF or where those guys hit either. You can take a look at the link, figure it out and post the results.

Frankly I don't worry so much about that stuff and yeah, it sounds like a Fantasy baseball concern, not a real game concern.

I guess it could be worse. We could have the guy at the BOTTOM of that list:redneck

palehozenychicty
05-25-2010, 08:03 AM
KW has really missed at times, and Teahen is one. He's just not that good. I never thought much of him with the Royals either. He's basically a right-handed version of Swisher, minus the mood swings.

Frater Perdurabo
05-25-2010, 08:45 AM
KW has really missed at times, and Teahen is one. He's just not that good. I never thought much of him with the Royals either. He's basically a right-handed version of Swisher, minus the mood swings.

Teahen bats lefty. Nevertheless, your point stands.

jabrch
05-25-2010, 10:16 AM
I think too many people are looking at him based on what he has done the first month of the season and not looking at what he would be if he meets his career numbers. He's not great - but he's adequate. And while I never saw too much of him at KC, I don't recall him being such a butcher with the glove. I'm going to expect that things get better for him both with the bat (already started - he's 9 for his last 22 and on a 7 game hitting streak and his walk rate is well above his career average) as well as the glove. If he can play league average defense, hit .270, maintain his current walk rate, and hit 15 HRs, he will have plenty of value for us.

That said, I still don't get the rush to sign him to a 3 year deal.

johnnyg83
05-25-2010, 10:42 AM
I think he's played all OF positions and all IF but SS. Maybe move him into an expensive Kostay-type role.

I don't remember him being this poor of a fielder either.

palehozenychicty
05-25-2010, 10:49 AM
Teahen bats lefty. Nevertheless, your point stands.

:redface: my bad. forgot that he was lefty.

russ99
05-25-2010, 10:52 AM
Great, comparing players with OPS again... Let's compare Teahen's OPS against other players with 2 HRs for a better picture.

If Teahen hits the way he's capable (you can say that for many of our players) then he'll be fine.

Defensively he's adequate, but most lacking on balls hit down the line. This can be adjusted with work on positioning and footwork, so some improvement isn't out of the question.

The other part is that he's a decent 2B man, so if they can't get him to improve defensively at third moving forward, Beckham could be back at 3B.

Carolina Kenny
05-25-2010, 11:14 AM
Isn't Teahen comparable to Herbert Perry only lacking the cool nickname?

Hawk needs to get Teahen and nickname and he'll become an instant legand.

Tragg
05-25-2010, 11:36 AM
KW has really missed at times, and Teahen is one. He's just not that good. I never thought much of him with the Royals either. He's basically a right-handed version of Swisher, minus the mood swings.
And minus the power.

His best offensive years are only marginally acceptable for a 3rd baseman. I thought we traded for him because he could field the position.
He'll just have to take Kotsay's spot as super-utility after this year, albeit for $5 mill a year.

Coops4Aces
05-25-2010, 12:17 PM
Is there a top 10 team in the majors that has a 3b hitting in the bottom 3 of the order?

Well the 2005 White Sox for one :tongue:

SephClone89
05-25-2010, 12:28 PM
Is there a top 10 team in the majors that has a 3b hitting in the bottom 3 of the order?

Not sure how you define "top 10," but...

Minnesota
Boston

DirtySox
05-25-2010, 12:58 PM
However, I really do believe that Morel is the real deal and if that's the case the Sox are not in a bad position here at 3B. Most likely, Morel plays most of next year in Charlotte and if all goes well he comes up in 2012 and splits time with Teahen.

As far as Morel goes, Sickels wrote a bit about him here (http://www.minorleagueball.com/2010/5/17/1475591/morning-notes-may-17-2010). It was posted in the minor league forum, but many people don't frequent that area.

John seems to think he should be ready by sometime next year, which sounds about right to me if the bat keeps up. Sickels is very conservative in his view of player promotion/development so his comments are a good sign.

Domeshot17
05-25-2010, 01:25 PM
Great, comparing players with OPS again... Let's compare Teahen's OPS against other players with 2 HRs for a better picture.

If Teahen hits the way he's capable (you can say that for many of our players) then he'll be fine.

Defensively he's adequate, but most lacking on balls hit down the line. This can be adjusted with work on positioning and footwork, so some improvement isn't out of the question.

The other part is that he's a decent 2B man, so if they can't get him to improve defensively at third moving forward, Beckham could be back at 3B.

This is just all wrong. Teahen is not very valuable hitting 270 with 15 homers at 3b. You can't move Beckham again. Seriously, what other team in the league moves a top 50 prospect 3 times in 1 year? I would bet this is a strong part of why hes been off this year.

An average hitter who does nothing that well who is also a below average to average at best defender is of little value. Teahen is a dime a dozen player.

BadBobbyJenks
05-25-2010, 02:56 PM
This is just all wrong. Teahen is not very valuable hitting 270 with 15 homers at 3b. You can't move Beckham again. Seriously, what other team in the league moves a top 50 prospect 3 times in 1 year? I would bet this is a strong part of why hes been off this year.

An average hitter who does nothing that well who is also a below average to average at best defender is of little value. Teahen is a dime a dozen player.

Yeah his only real value is being able to play everywhere.

TDog
05-25-2010, 03:33 PM
... You can't move Beckham again. Seriously, what other team in the league moves a top 50 prospect 3 times in 1 year? I would bet this is a strong part of why hes been off this year. ...

If you're not very good at any one position, you can get moved around a lot, as Bobby Bonilla was before settling at third base. Jackie Robinson moved around the infield from first to second to third, but he was very good defensively everywhere.

I wouldn't move Beckham back to third base, either. The White Sox made it clear they wanted someone else playing third, and there could be reasons for that we're not aware of, that we can't see as fans. No one ever believe Beckham was a great middle infielder, but he has to feel more comfortable there than at third base where he was basically learning a new position.

I don't think Beckham's offensive problems are related to him returning to the middle infield where he has to feel more comfortable. Ramirez has played three positions since coming up, although he was mostly a second baseman as a rookie before settling in at shortstop. He has gotten off to slow starts in each of his three seasons, but his position change doesn't seem to be affecting his offense.

Frater Perdurabo
05-25-2010, 07:17 PM
Isn't Teahen comparable to Herbert Perry only lacking the cool nickname?

More like Greg Norton.

Craig Grebeck
05-25-2010, 07:47 PM
I really wouldn't have a problem with Teahen's bat if his glove wasn't so awful. I can absolutely live with a Joe Crede (pre-2005) kind of bat if he provides adequate defense.

Teahen, despite whatever small KC sample-sizes people are citing here, is not a decent fielder.

Frater Perdurabo
05-25-2010, 08:21 PM
I really wouldn't have a problem with Teahen's bat if his glove wasn't so awful. I can absolutely live with a Joe Crede (pre-2005) kind of bat if he provides adequate defense.

Teahen, despite whatever small KC sample-sizes people are citing here, is not a decent fielder.

I agree. This is especially important given that the Sox have so many ground ball pitchers.