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View Full Version : Phillies Looking at Jenks/Putz


DirtySox
05-23-2010, 04:37 PM
http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/05/phillies-looking-at-white-soxs-jenks-putz.html

soltrain21
05-23-2010, 04:38 PM
Take them both if you so please.

DirtySox
05-23-2010, 04:39 PM
Take them both if you so please.

That was a ridiculously fast reply.

I want Jenks gone beacuse of what he's owed. I'm indifferent about Putz, but we might get something worthwhile for him.

Brian26
05-23-2010, 04:39 PM
Take them both if you so please.

:roflmao:

It's Dankerific
05-23-2010, 04:40 PM
As long as its not a salary dump, go for it.

even said, my standards for not a salary dump are pretty ****ing low at this point, especially for jenks.

Marqhead
05-23-2010, 04:40 PM
Their bullpen problems are well documented and as the article states we've made deals with them in the past. If we can get something decent for either of them pull the trigger.

DirtySox
05-23-2010, 04:41 PM
As long as its not a salary dump, go for it.


I'm for a salary dump if it's invested in other areas. IE the draft, next year's payroll, international free agency, scouting, etc.

It's Dankerific
05-23-2010, 04:42 PM
I'm for a salary dump if it's invested in other areas. IE the draft, next year's payroll, international free agency, scouting, etc.

Very True, but it would probably go to covering this years losses.

DirtySox
05-23-2010, 04:45 PM
Very True, but it would probably go to covering this years losses.

That's what I fear and suspect. :(:

JermaineDye05
05-23-2010, 04:55 PM
Santos is the future closer. If we can get like a B prospect for Jenks, go for it.

VMSNS
05-23-2010, 05:11 PM
Yes, please. The Phillies can have Jenks, as far as I'm concerned.

I'll take Jason Werth, please.

dickallen15
05-23-2010, 05:30 PM
Very True, but it would probably go to covering this years losses.

At least that's what they would tell you.

samurai_sox
05-23-2010, 05:48 PM
Please, please, please let this happen. The Phillies have a pretty good farm system, send some of that young talent this way.

It's Dankerific
05-23-2010, 05:50 PM
Time to gas up that WSI Moving Truck for Mr. Jenks. =)

TheOldRoman
05-23-2010, 06:17 PM
At least that's what they would tell you.:rolleyes:
You haven't used your "the Sox slashed payroll more than any team other than San Diego after 2008" line in a while, probably because you followed it up with warnings that they were going to slash payroll even more for this season. Yeah, it went up and we are again over $100 million.

And furthermore, if things continue this way, there will be huge losses by the organization, so that wouldn't be a lie. They make the budget off projected revenue. They weren't projecting having a team that isn't competitive (as they haven't been to this point). If the team continues underachieving and July weekend games have crowds of 25,000, they are really going to be hurting financially. Oh, that's right, I forgot the Sox bring in billions annually in revenue and Reinsdorf sits in his executive suite lighting cigars with $100 bills. He probably gives them Burger King coupons in lieu of a meal stipend, too.

TDog
05-23-2010, 06:19 PM
Trading Jenks and Putz (or just Jenks) would be a great idea if you want to turn an underachieving White Sox team into a bad White Sox team.

There is a difference.

Baron
05-23-2010, 06:19 PM
Please, please, please let this happen. The Phillies have a pretty good farm system, send some of that young talent this way.

Yep we could use some good young talent in this organization

Baron
05-23-2010, 06:21 PM
Trading Jenks and Putz (or just Jenks) would be a great idea if you want to turn an underachieving White Sox team into a bad White Sox team.

There is a difference.

Wrong....this is a bad White Sox team

TheOldRoman
05-23-2010, 06:35 PM
Wrong....this is a bad White Sox teamWrong... this team is losing because it is underachieving. Pierzynski is getting up there, but hitters dont generally fall off a cliff at age 33. Beckham and Quentin aren't old. Forget even hitting up to their potential, if these guys were hitting .250 this team would have won several more games. Of course, Buehrle, Peavy, and Floyd haven't hit the downward slopes of their careers either. If Peavy and Floyd had ERAs of 5 this team would have won more games. People are dead wrong when they say "everything had to go right for this team to compete". Not even close.

DirtySox
05-23-2010, 06:35 PM
Trading Jenks and Putz (or just Jenks) would be a great idea if you want to turn an underachieving White Sox team into a bad White Sox team.

There is a difference.

Bad/Underachieving, either way this team's odds aren't very good. Time to trim the fat.

DrCrawdad
05-23-2010, 06:35 PM
http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/05/phillies-looking-at-white-soxs-jenks-putz.html

Take them both if you so please.

What possibly would the Sox get in return? Three marginal prospects, but that's only if the Sox thrown in another pitcher?

DrCrawdad
05-23-2010, 06:38 PM
Wrong... this team is losing because it is underachieving. Pierzynski is getting up there, but hitters dont generally fall off a cliff at age 33. Beckham and Quentin aren't old. Forget even hitting up to their potential, if these guys were hitting .250 this team would have won several more games. Of course, Buehrle, Peavy, and Floyd haven't hit the downward slopes of their careers either. If Peavy and Floyd had ERAs of 5 this team would have won more games. People are dead wrong when they say "everything had to go right for this team to compete". Not even close.

I agree.

Offense? Bad.
Defense? Below average.
Starting pitching? Flop.

Just about everything has gone wrong.

Baron
05-23-2010, 06:42 PM
I agree.

Offense? Bad.
Defense? Below average.
Starting pitching? Flop.

Just about everything has gone wrong.

Either way does it really matter anymore? They are playing like garbage....most likely not going to change

DrCrawdad
05-23-2010, 06:53 PM
Either way does it really matter anymore? They are playing like garbage....most likely not going to change

Yes, they certainly are playing like garbage. But if they decide to start unloading players, I'd hope they not only unload salaries but pick-up some useful players. For example, the Sox gave up Nick Masset & Danny Richar for The Ghost of Ken Griffey, Jr. Ok, nothing overwhelming but Masset has been contributing on a ML roster. So the Reds got free from Griffey's remaining salary and got an arm in return.

Frater Perdurabo
05-23-2010, 07:38 PM
It would be nice if the Phillies would overpay to reload their bullpen. Would they also like Mark Teahen? They can have him for free.

GAsoxfan
05-23-2010, 08:16 PM
What possibly would the Sox get in return? Three marginal prospects, but that's only if the Sox thrown in another pitcher?

DeWayne Wise is on the Phillies' AAA team...

TDog
05-23-2010, 09:04 PM
Wrong....this is a bad White Sox team

No, it is underachieving. I've seen enough bad White Sox teams to know the difference. Underachieving teams can have a wasted season but can turn things around much more quickly.

palehozenychicty
05-23-2010, 09:09 PM
That's funny, because I was watching the Hawks game in this Philly cheesesteak bar earlier and I thought they could use him, with Lidge not being reliable these days with injury, etc. I think he'd be rejuvenated in the NL.

palehozenychicty
05-23-2010, 09:11 PM
No, it is underachieving. I've seen enough bad White Sox teams to know the difference. Underachieving teams can have a wasted season but can turn things around much more quickly.

They could, but it's been years since a White Sox team has gotten better as the season rolls along. If they don't jump out of the gate, they usually aren't contending for a playoff spot.

jabrch
05-23-2010, 10:41 PM
People are dead wrong when they say "everything had to go right for this team to compete". Not even close.

Very few people said that...mostly because of how untrue it is.

TheOldRoman
05-23-2010, 11:40 PM
Very few people said that...mostly because of how untrue it is.Yes, it is very untrue, but many people said that. I have read that it was "astonishing" how many holes the team had and that to merely compete we had to count on Beckham to hit .300, Rios to rebound, Jones to rebound, Quentin to almost miraculously stay healthy and put up 2008 numbers, Ramirez to come back from a "horrible" season, and of course our starters to each have career years. But I guess having your 2 and 3 hitters hit above their weight falls into the "everything going right" category.

Slappy
05-24-2010, 12:27 AM
Ibanez is that lefty power bat we've been needing. Go get him Kenny!

Teal!

Tragg
05-24-2010, 12:32 AM
No hurry.
HOld out for the team that will give you real prospects. There are over 2+ months of trading season left.

It's Dankerific
05-24-2010, 12:34 AM
Very few people said that...mostly because of how untrue it is.

Yeah, the smart money was on the team doing poorly even if they all didnt fall flat on their face.

Nellie_Fox
05-24-2010, 12:58 AM
...my standards for not a salary dump are pretty ****ing low at this point, especially for jenks.You're still pining for Anderson (see your signature,) but you have no use for Jenks, who's actually accomplished something in his baseball career.

jabrch
05-24-2010, 02:00 AM
Yes, it is very untrue, but many people said that. I have read that it was "astonishing" how many holes the team had and that to merely compete we had to count on Beckham to hit .300, Rios to rebound, Jones to rebound, Quentin to almost miraculously stay healthy and put up 2008 numbers, Ramirez to come back from a "horrible" season, and of course our starters to each have career years. But I guess having your 2 and 3 hitters hit above their weight falls into the "everything going right" category.

Most who said that had an agenda. It was transparent at least to me. Now they are saying they were right that the offense would suck - even though they had no way to predict why it would suck. It's kinda funny.

TheOldRoman
05-24-2010, 09:05 AM
You're still pining for Anderson (see your signature,) but you have no use for Jenks, who's actually accomplished something in his baseball career.Yeah, but Jenks is, like, obese... and stuff. Anderson is the picture of baseball excellence with his powerful swing, I mean powerful arm and aesthetic excellence with his flowing blond locks.

soltrain21
05-24-2010, 11:13 AM
You're still pining for Anderson (see your signature,) but you have no use for Jenks, who's actually accomplished something in his baseball career.

What does that have to do with this conversation?

khan
05-24-2010, 11:28 AM
Wrong... this team is losing because it is underachieving. Pierzynski is getting up there, but hitters dont generally fall off a cliff at age 33.
Some "hitters" don't fall off a cliff, but 33 year old catchers that have been ridden like a rented mule do. If Pierzynski is done, he wouldn't be the FIRST 33 year old catcher to fall off a cliff.

Beckham and Quentin aren't old. Forget even hitting up to their potential, if these guys were hitting .250 this team would have won several more games.
Beckham is clearly overmatched at this point, and has needed to be down in Charlotte for awhile. If he's having a "sophomore slump," he wouldn't be the first MLB player to do so. It was silly to depend on an unproven player to provide as much as this team depended on Beckham.

Quentin is looking like a one year wonder with every passing day, unfortunately. ALL of his partial MLB seasons batting averages are at or below .253, except for 2008. [Note the word "partial," because he's never had a completely-healthy season.] 2008 looks to be a CLEAR statistical outlier. Whether we like it or not, Quentin may only ever be a .250 hitter, not the miracle of 2008.


Of course, Buehrle, Peavy, and Floyd haven't hit the downward slopes of their careers either. If Peavy and Floyd had ERAs of 5 this team would have won more games.
Sure. But as with any player [especially pitchers] that change leagues, there are downside risks to their future performances. Especially when a pitcher joins the big boy AL. Peavy may YET approximate his league-adjusted career norm in terms of performance. But he will have to make a few changes.

People are dead wrong when they say "everything had to go right for this team to compete". Not even close.
Suffice it to say that I disagree. There are so many holes in this team that I am neither surprised nor angry at this team. If you [dispassionately] go over the roster, you will see that this team is not underachieving. They are what I thought they'd be in the offseason:

A bad team.

ewokpelts
05-24-2010, 11:33 AM
do they need help packing jenks' bags?

SI1020
05-24-2010, 12:04 PM
Wrong... this team is losing because it is underachieving. Pierzynski is getting up there, but hitters dont generally fall off a cliff at age 33. Beckham and Quentin aren't old. Forget even hitting up to their potential, if these guys were hitting .250 this team would have won several more games. Of course, Buehrle, Peavy, and Floyd haven't hit the downward slopes of their careers either. If Peavy and Floyd had ERAs of 5 this team would have won more games. People are dead wrong when they say "everything had to go right for this team to compete". Not even close. In the best circumstances this team should win about 85 or so games, but comparisons to 05, 83 or other really good Sox teams are off the mark IMHO.

kittle42
05-24-2010, 12:25 PM
You're still pining for Anderson (see your signature,) but you have no use for Jenks, who's actually accomplished something in his baseball career.

Anderson would fit in great with this team.

salty99
05-24-2010, 12:45 PM
Jenks and Putz for Gload, Contreras and Wise!!!:bandance:

Over By There
05-24-2010, 01:51 PM
We have other intriguing options for our closer like Putz, Thornton and Santos, so if Bobby is traded, I won't shed too many tears. But it amazes me how quickly some people around here have turned on Bobby Jenks. Bobby has had an incredibly solid run as closer for this team, and it wouldn't surprise me if people are pining for him a year or two down the road.

May I remind you that we used to run Shingo Takatsu and Billy Koch out there in the 9th before Bobby. And before that, I don't recall ever feeling like the game was over when Keith Foulke was warming in the pen (YMMV, I guess). Having a run like Bobby has had with us for the last few years is pretty rare. So while I agree that maybe his shelf life is nearing an end, and perhaps we should extract some value out of him while we can, it just rubs me the wrong way when people crassly offer to pack his bags, etc.

ewokpelts
05-24-2010, 02:03 PM
We have other intriguing options for our closer like Putz, Thornton and Santos, so if Bobby is traded, I won't shed too many tears. But it amazes me how quickly some people around here have turned on Bobby Jenks. Bobby has had an incredibly solid run as closer for this team, and it wouldn't surprise me if people are pining for him a year or two down the road.

May I remind you that we used to run Shingo Takatsu and Billy Koch out there in the 9th before Bobby. And before that, I don't recall ever feeling like the game was over when Keith Foulke was warming in the pen (YMMV, I guess). Having a run like Bobby has had with us for the last few years is pretty rare. So while I agree that maybe his shelf life is nearing an end, and perhaps we should extract some value out of him while we can, it just rubs me the wrong way when people crassly offer to pack his bags, etc.8 million wasted dollars is the reason why i want to pack his bags for him

Milw
05-24-2010, 02:04 PM
But it amazes me how quickly some people around here have turned on Bobby Jenks.
It doesn't amaze me. White Sox fans have always been among the most fickle fans of any franchise I can think of. I say that as a diehard Sox fan, mind you. But go through the archives at WSI, and every single season, regardless of how the team ended up (and this includes 2005), there are a disheartening percentage of fans who turn on players, coaches, management and even the whole team as soon as things go bad for a few weeks. Then, if the turnaround comes (and more often than not, it does), all the sudden these people either go hide in a cave or they're right back on the bandwagon.

Have some F'ing perspective, people.

There's that famous quote about wanting to be in a foxhole with a Sox fan. Not me. I'd be afraid the other Sox fan would turn on me at a moment's notice and push me into the firing squad.

Hitmen77
05-24-2010, 02:09 PM
In the best circumstances this team should win about 85 or so games, but comparisons to 05, 83 or other really good Sox teams are off the mark IMHO.

Thank you.

I don't remember many (or any?) people saying that everything had to go right for the Sox to be about a .500 team (81-85 wins) with a 2nd or 3rd place finish. That's what people were expecting if we got "career norm" level performance from our players.

However, the "everything has to go right" was for expecting this team to be a 95 game pennant winning-type team. I don't think saying that was off the mark then and it's proved to be sadly accurate.

Of course, things have turned out worse than expected....but that doesn't mean we'd be in first place even if the team didn't implode. But, the Ozzieball defenders have to grasp at straws at this point to criticize people who saw the holes in this team and have been raising legitimate concerns since January with the way Kenny and Ozzie put this team together.

asindc
05-24-2010, 02:24 PM
It doesn't amaze me. White Sox fans have always been among the most fickle fans of any franchise I can think of. I say that as a diehard Sox fan, mind you. But go through the archives at WSI, and every single season, regardless of how the team ended up (and this includes 2005), there are a disheartening percentage of fans who turn on players, coaches, management and even the whole team as soon as things go bad for a few weeks. Then, if the turnaround comes (and more often than not, it does), all the sudden these people either go hide in a cave or they're right back on the bandwagon.

Have some F'ing perspective, people.

There's that famous quote about wanting to be in a foxhole with a Sox fan. Not me. I'd be afraid the other Sox fan would turn on me at a moment's notice and push me into the firing squad.

Thank you for saying that.

SI1020
05-24-2010, 02:43 PM
Most who said that had an agenda. It was transparent at least to me. Now they are saying they were right that the offense would suck - even though they had no way to predict why it would suck. It's kinda funny. You thought the offense would be good? "Now way to predict." Really?

Lip Man 1
05-24-2010, 02:43 PM
Well one way to get some perspective is to see how things have been going the past few years. 2007- worst season in 20 years, 2008 - division champion / postseason spot, 2009 - 2nd losing season in three years, 2010 - ??? right now heading for a 3rd losing season in four years.

Lip

SI1020
05-24-2010, 02:46 PM
Well one way to get some perspective is to see how things have been going the past few years. 2007- worst season in 20 years, 2008 - division champion / postseason spot, 2009 - 2nd losing season in three years, 2010 - ??? right now heading for a 3rd losing season in four years.

Lip 34-43 down the stretch in 06.

Chez
05-24-2010, 02:59 PM
We have other intriguing options for our closer like Putz, Thornton and Santos, so if Bobby is traded, I won't shed too many tears. But it amazes me how quickly some people around here have turned on Bobby Jenks. Bobby has had an incredibly solid run as closer for this team, and it wouldn't surprise me if people are pining for him a year or two down the road.

May I remind you that we used to run Shingo Takatsu and Billy Koch out there in the 9th before Bobby. And before that, I don't recall ever feeling like the game was over when Keith Foulke was warming in the pen (YMMV, I guess). Having a run like Bobby has had with us for the last few years is pretty rare. So while I agree that maybe his shelf life is nearing an end, and perhaps we should extract some value out of him while we can, it just rubs me the wrong way when people crassly offer to pack his bags, etc.

Well said.

Milw
05-24-2010, 03:14 PM
Well one way to get some perspective is to see how things have been going the past few years. 2007- worst season in 20 years, 2008 - division champion / postseason spot, 2009 - 2nd losing season in three years, 2010 - ??? right now heading for a 3rd losing season in four years.

Lip
If, when Kenny Williams took over in 2001, I told you he'd achieve two division titles and a World Championship in his first 8 seasons, you know damn well you would have been ecstatic about that.

THAT is perspective.

Craig Grebeck
05-24-2010, 04:21 PM
Most who said that had an agenda. It was transparent at least to me. Now they are saying they were right that the offense would suck - even though they had no way to predict why it would suck. It's kinda funny.
I relied on my common sense to tell you this offense would suck.

DSpivack
05-24-2010, 04:47 PM
It doesn't amaze me. White Sox fans have always been among the most fickle fans of any franchise I can think of. I say that as a diehard Sox fan, mind you. But go through the archives at WSI, and every single season, regardless of how the team ended up (and this includes 2005), there are a disheartening percentage of fans who turn on players, coaches, management and even the whole team as soon as things go bad for a few weeks. Then, if the turnaround comes (and more often than not, it does), all the sudden these people either go hide in a cave or they're right back on the bandwagon.

Have some F'ing perspective, people.

There's that famous quote about wanting to be in a foxhole with a Sox fan. Not me. I'd be afraid the other Sox fan would turn on me at a moment's notice and push me into the firing squad.

I agree with that, but are we that much different from most other fan bases?

Lip Man 1
05-24-2010, 05:36 PM
Milw:

Not saying you're wrong. Here's another viewpoint to consider though...from 2000 through 2006 the Sox had ZERO losing seasons, they had six winning ones (00,01,03,04,05,06) and a .500 one (02). That's damn good considering everything.

Since then...two losing seasons with a possibility of a 3rd in four. Clearly something has gone wrong no? You don't have that sharp of a decline without some serious issues. As others have pointed out elsewhere the ramifications of the past few years could be felt for awhile, the minor league system still isn't producing.

And fair or not, in pro sports it's 'what have you done lately?' David Haugh interviewed me right after the Sox won the series for a story in the Tribune. One of the things he asked me was how long I though Kenny's grace period was now that he won the title. I said five years and said that I figured the Sox would be a solid contender in that period... that he wouldn't have to make the playoffs every season but that's about the time period most folks would give him.

Again it's not fair but five years seems like a generation ago the way things are measured today. I'll be curious to see how Kenny can get the franchise out from between the rock and the hard place. Also factoring into all this the fact that at current pace, Sox attendance will drop for the 4th straight year...bottom line fans aren't buying the product and historically that happens when the team isn't good.

Kenny's done a pretty good job in my opinion looking at his entire tenure but things jumped the track starting in 2007 and the question is, can he get things back on the rails?

Lip

It's Dankerific
05-24-2010, 06:14 PM
You're still pining for Anderson (see your signature,) but you have no use for Jenks, who's actually accomplished something in his baseball career.

What does that have to do with this conversation?

You just gotta let it go, soltrain.

Anderson would fit in great with this team.

Especially when you're beaten to the best punchline. :D:

kittle42
05-24-2010, 07:06 PM
Especially when you're beaten to the best punchline. :D:

:tongue: