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Lip Man 1
05-22-2010, 07:56 PM
Given the serious and thoughtful discussion this week on the Sox minor league system, the way the franchise operates, the future etc. I thought this was interesting.

Granted any type of list like this needs to be taken with a grain of salt but The Sporting News this week listed their top 50 players in MLB.

First some info on those who voted. It was made up of 18 Hall of Famers, 12 Cy Young winners, eight MVP's, 15 Rookies of the Year, three batting champs, three home run champs, nine Silver Slugger winners, 18 Gold Glove winners, six ERA champs, four World Series MVP's, two relief pitchers of the year, seven Managers of the Year, five MLB executives, six members of the media and nine team broadcasters.

The White Sox were well represented on that panel. Those with Sox connections included: Orlando Cepeda, "Goose" Gossage, Ralph Kiner, Doug Drabek, LaMarr Hoyt, Denny McLain, Steve Stone, Phil Cavarretta, Ron Hansen, Gary Peters, Roy Sievers, Ralph Garr, Ken Berry, Del Crandall, Don Kessinger, Jim Landis, Jimmy Piersall, Mike Squires, Joe Magrane, Jeff Torborg, Ricky Horton and Pat Tabler.

The results weren't good. There were eight franchises that didn't have a single player selected. Many of them, you don't want to be associated with: Baltimore, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Houston, Oakland, Pittsburgh, Texas and the WHITE SOX.

Feel free to discuss, again in the context of what the Sox future holds, can the minor league system ever start producing real talent (given the budgetary limitations and possible involvement of JR), will the Sox start to pay for top players and so forth.

Lip

bridgeportcopper
05-22-2010, 08:18 PM
just looked at it...Derrek Lee #33? Have they been watching this season?

voodoochile
05-22-2010, 08:31 PM
Anyone got a link?

Is this by position or just over all?

50 players is 2/team and we all know the Yankees are going to have a bunch as will the Red Sox.

Is this based on this year or for entire careers?

Lip Man 1
05-22-2010, 08:34 PM
I don't know if the results are specifically for this season (I doubt it because it's only the middle of May and these took time to compile), it's more probably based on the past few seasons, but that's just a guess on my part.

FYI, here is the list:

1. Pujols
2. Mauer
3. Rodriguez, Alex
4. Jeter
5. Lincecum
6. Halladay
7. Ramirez, Hanley
8. Suzuki
9. Utley
10. Howard
11. Rivera, Mariano
12. Hernandez, Felix
13. Sabathia
14. Longoria
15. Greinke
16. Teixeira
17. Cabrera, Miguel
18. Pedroia
19. Verlander
20. Carpenter
21. Fielder
22. Braun
23. Morneau
24. Gonzalez, Adrian
25. Crawford
26. Kemp
27. Santana
28. Holliday
29. Lee
30. Ethier
31. Hunter
32. Tulowitzki
33. Lee
34. Helton
35. Johnson, Josh
36. Beckett
37. Wright
38. Youkilis
39. Wainwright
40. Zimmerman
41. McCann
42. Sandoval
43. Ramirez, Manny
44. Abreu
45. Hill
46. Lackey
47. Bay
48. Haren
49. Werth
50. Pena, Carlos

Team breakdown:

5- Yankees
4- Red Sox, Phillies, Cardinals
3- Dodgers, Mets, Mariners, Rays
2- Rockies, Tigers, Marlins, Angels, Brewers, Twins, Giants
1- Diamondbacks, Braves, Cubs, Royals, Padres, Blue Jays, Nationals

------

Nothing: WHITE SOX, Orioles, Reds, Indians, Astros, Athletics, Rangers, Pirates

Lip

mzh
05-22-2010, 08:49 PM
Sounds like some East Coast love to me- almost a fifth divided among 2 teams. A-Rod and Jete 3/4 ahead of Hanley is ridiculous IMO. Also, Mariano is a surefire HOFer, and no doubt the best at what he does, but is he really the 11th best player in baseball? Why aren't Joe Nathan or Papelbon (gag), two other lights out closers, and just a tick below Rivera, on the list?

TSN is usually pretty balanced, but to some degree I want to call this East Coast crock-of-****. Just my opinion.

EDIT: If Peavy starts out the year at his career norms, I bet he's not put below Josh ****ing Beckett.

Brian26
05-22-2010, 08:53 PM
Even the 2005 White Sox, one of the best teams of all time, probably wouldn't have had, at most, two guys on the list (Konerko and Buehrle).

It's not earth-shattering that the Sox don't have anyone on the list. There are 30 teams, so the average would only be 1.67 players per team on the list.

voodoochile
05-22-2010, 09:15 PM
Even the 2005 White Sox, one of the best teams of all time, probably wouldn't have had, at most, two guys on the list (Konerko and Buehrle).

It's not earth-shattering that the Sox don't have anyone on the list. There are 30 teams, so the average would only be 1.67 players per team on the list.

Also at least a few of the Sox top players are suffering because of down or injured seasons last year. If Peavy were healthy and had a typical Peavy year last year he'd be on there. Rios too. I mean he's got to be in the same area as Hunter and Abreu one would think.

Also, later this summer, the Sox will have the 24th best player in MLB, so we got that going for us...

JermaineDye05
05-22-2010, 09:16 PM
Beckham will be on that list in due time, as will the Cubs shortstop.

LoveYourSuit
05-23-2010, 12:07 AM
Beckham will be on that list in due time, as will the Cubs shortstop.


I wish I can have as much confidence as you do with Beckham.

I hope you are right.

Dub25
05-23-2010, 12:19 AM
I don't know if the results are specifically for this season (I doubt it because it's only the middle of May and these took time to compile), it's more probably based on the past few seasons, but that's just a guess on my part.

FYI, here is the list:

1. Pujols
2. Mauer
3. Rodriguez, Alex
4. Jeter
5. Lincecum
6. Halladay
7. Ramirez, Hanley
8. Suzuki
9. Utley
10. Howard
11. Rivera, Mariano
12. Hernandez, Felix
13. Sabathia
14. Longoria
15. Greinke
16. Teixeira
17. Cabrera, Miguel
18. Pedroia
19. Verlander
20. Carpenter
21. Fielder
22. Braun
23. Morneau
24. Gonzalez, Adrian
25. Crawford
26. Kemp
27. Santana
28. Holliday
29. Lee
30. Ethier
31. Hunter
32. Tulowitzki
33. Lee
34. Helton
35. Johnson, Josh
36. Beckett
37. Wright
38. Youkilis
39. Wainwright
40. Zimmerman
41. McCann
42. Sandoval
43. Ramirez, Manny
44. Abreu
45. Hill
46. Lackey
47. Bay
48. Haren
49. Werth
50. Pena, Carlos

Team breakdown:

5- Yankees
4- Red Sox, Phillies, Cardinals
3- Dodgers, Mets, Mariners, Rays
2- Rockies, Tigers, Marlins, Angels, Brewers, Twins, Giants
1- Diamondbacks, Braves, Cubs, Royals, Padres, Blue Jays, Nationals

------

Nothing: WHITE SOX, Orioles, Reds, Indians, Astros, Athletics, Rangers, Pirates

Lip

That top 50 looks like a fantasy magazine top 50 fantasy player list.

JermaineDye05
05-23-2010, 03:59 AM
I wish I can have as much confidence as you do with Beckham.

I hope you are right.

This isn't Brian Anderson we're talking about here. He's had a rough go in 2010, I hardly think that's the way he'll hit for the rest of his career.

FarWestChicago
05-23-2010, 05:55 AM
Lip, you are perhaps the most creative chronic depressive I've ever encountered. You truly have a gift. :cool:

DumpJerry
05-23-2010, 07:34 AM
You do realize that this list was created solely for the purpose of generating hits on their website to increase ad revenue? This list is totally meaningless, just like pre-season predictions.

LITTLE NELL
05-23-2010, 08:08 AM
I am surprised that Mark and Paulie did not make the list and why isn't Peavy on the list.

soltrain21
05-23-2010, 08:11 AM
Lip, you are perhaps the most creative chronic depressive I've ever encountered. You truly have a gift. :cool:

I wonder if he would have posted the list if Sox players were on it. I'm guessing no

Konerko05
05-23-2010, 08:11 AM
Stupid list. Not saying it's wrong, but not that much different than any of us making our own list. Unbiased, of course.

Although, I really can't think of anyone being top 50 on our team besides Peavy or Rios if they play to their upper potential.

NLaloosh
05-23-2010, 08:22 AM
Well, I'm not going to argue the list because that's always debateable but I was just thinking yesterday how the Twins have two players that are just head and shoulders above anyone on the White Sox.

And, what a difference that makes.

konerko 14
05-23-2010, 08:31 AM
that list is bull****

Konerko05
05-23-2010, 08:46 AM
Well, I'm not going to argue the list because that's always debateable but I was just thinking yesterday how the Twins have two players that are just head and shoulders above anyone on the White Sox.

And, what a difference that makes.

This is true.

Stay away from my posts "14."

Lip Man 1
05-23-2010, 11:00 AM
With all the talk this past week at WSI about the future of the organization, the draft issues, the possibility of JR's involvement in said draft decisions I thought it would be an interesting discussion point. Nothing more, nothing less.

If that bothers some of you, I won't apologize for it. Last I looked this was a discussion forum for everyone, not a forum to discuss only what a select group of individuals think should be talked about.

Lip

LITTLE NELL
05-23-2010, 11:33 AM
With all the talk this past week at WSI about the future of the organization, the draft issues, the possibility of JR's involvement in said draft decisions I thought it would be an interesting discussion point. Nothing more, nothing less.

If that bothers some of you, I won't apologize for it. Last I looked this was a discussion forum for everyone, not a forum to discuss only what a select group of individuals think should be talked about.

Lip

Exactly.

voodoochile
05-23-2010, 12:34 PM
With all the talk this past week at WSI about the future of the organization, the draft issues, the possibility of JR's involvement in said draft decisions I thought it would be an interesting discussion point. Nothing more, nothing less.

If that bothers some of you, I won't apologize for it. Last I looked this was a discussion forum for everyone, not a forum to discuss only what a select group of individuals think should be talked about.

Lip

Exactly.

You know how people complain about references to 2005? This crap about censored discussions rubs me the exact same way.

The fact is if you post something for discussion, some people may think it's a pile of hooey. That's part of the discussion and when you whine about people whining all you do is attempt to censor them.

When's the last time someone said, "you can't be a depressed nutzoid at WSI" and actually followed through on it. Yeah, I've banned some trolls or people who looked like trolls in their first 5 posts, but honestly, have you looked at the topics in this forum? Have you actually read the posts? If people weren't allowed to post their darkest rants, how do you explain the 30+ threads on the first page all dedicated to hating on the management team, players and organization? :rolleyes:

Lip Man 1
05-23-2010, 12:57 PM
Voodoo:

My comment wasn't based at all on "censorship." If you thought that was the case I will apologize to you.

I'm frustrated when people assume that when I post something there are alternate motives, underlying causes, or secondary implications and then I'm criticized for it when there was nothing there to start with. It's amazing the number of mind readers here isn't it.

I explained why I started the thread, there was nothing else to it. It wasn't trying to be negative or prove a point. It was posted in the context of numerous discussions by numerous people regarding the talent base of the Sox and the future for this organization. That's it pure and simple.

I try not to imply things about folks here at WSI, I'd really appreciate others giving me the same courtesy. I don't think the ability to toss off one liners or to imply how someone looks at things shows anybody is smarter or better than anybody else. I never played the "put down" game that seems to be popular among some.

Lip

voodoochile
05-23-2010, 01:29 PM
Voodoo:

My comment wasn't based at all on "censorship." If you thought that was the case I will apologize to you.

I'm frustrated when people assume that when I post something there are alternate motives, underlying causes, or secondary implications and then I'm criticized for it when there was nothing there to start with. It's amazing the number of mind readers here isn't it.

I explained why I started the thread, there was nothing else to it. It wasn't trying to be negative or prove a point. It was posted in the context of numerous discussions by numerous people regarding the talent base of the Sox and the future for this organization. That's it pure and simple.

I try not to imply things about folks here at WSI, I'd really appreciate others giving me the same courtesy. I don't think the ability to toss off one liners or to imply how someone looks at things shows anybody is smarter or better than anybody else. I never played the "put down" game that seems to be popular among some.

Lip

Lip, it was the final sentence in your original post that struck me the wrong way.

Last I looked this was a discussion forum for everyone, not a forum to discuss only what a select group of individuals think should be talked about. I've been reading this from so many people, more so the people who are convinced the season is over and have been turning the Clubhouse into a bombed out wasteland of complaints against the organization. It seems that every time someone accuses them of having an overly negative outlook they reply with something similar to what you typed.

So it wasn't just about you, it's been building for a while. People are going to have both positive and negative feelings about the Sox organization and sometimes people are going to think one particular viewpoint or one particular poster takes it to an extreme. Lately if anything the people who are defending management and the organization are the ones getting shouted down, yet when it gets turned around the darker viewpoints start screaming about how they're being repressed. It gets old...

Crestani
05-24-2010, 11:28 AM
Lip, it was the final sentence in your original post that struck me the wrong way.

I've been reading this from so many people, more so the people who are convinced the season is over and have been turning the Clubhouse into a bombed out wasteland of complaints against the organization. It seems that every time someone accuses them of having an overly negative outlook they reply with something similar to what you typed.

So it wasn't just about you, it's been building for a while. People are going to have both positive and negative feelings about the Sox organization and sometimes people are going to think one particular viewpoint or one particular poster takes it to an extreme. Lately if anything the people who are defending management and the organization are the ones getting shouted down, yet when it gets turned around the darker viewpoints start screaming about how they're being repressed. It gets old...


Everbody is just upset because Mark Tehan isn't on the list!:angry:

SephClone89
05-24-2010, 11:38 AM
Everbody is just upset because Mark Tehan isn't on the list!:angry:

Who?

Also...

:tealtutor:

Crestani
05-24-2010, 12:57 PM
Who?

Also...

:tealtutor:
OK, not one of my better mornings....Went to the Eagles concert last night, (if that's any excuse) and got a total of two hours sleep before posting....My bad!!
Mark Teahen..!!
p.s.
Thanks for waking me up!

GAsoxfan
05-24-2010, 03:05 PM
Stupid list. Not saying it's wrong, but not that much different than any of us making our own list. Unbiased, of course.

Although, I really can't think of anyone being top 50 on our team besides Peavy or Rios if they play to their upper potential.

I think Danks could be on that list before too long.

CPditka
05-24-2010, 03:18 PM
I don't know if the results are specifically for this season (I doubt it because it's only the middle of May and these took time to compile), it's more probably based on the past few seasons, but that's just a guess on my part.

FYI, here is the list:

1. Pujols
2. Mauer
3. Rodriguez, Alex
4. Jeter
5. Lincecum
6. Halladay
7. Ramirez, Hanley
8. Suzuki
9. Utley
10. Howard
11. Rivera, Mariano
12. Hernandez, Felix
13. Sabathia
14. Longoria
15. Greinke
16. Teixeira
17. Cabrera, Miguel
18. Pedroia
19. Verlander
20. Carpenter
21. Fielder
22. Braun
23. Morneau
24. Gonzalez, Adrian
25. Crawford
26. Kemp
27. Santana
28. Holliday
29. Lee
30. Ethier
31. Hunter
32. Tulowitzki
33. Lee
34. Helton
35. Johnson, Josh
36. Beckett
37. Wright
38. Youkilis
39. Wainwright
40. Zimmerman
41. McCann
42. Sandoval
43. Ramirez, Manny
44. Abreu
45. Hill
46. Lackey
47. Bay
48. Haren
49. Werth
50. Pena, Carlos

Lip


Are those lifetime achievment awards? Im suprised Trevor Hoffman isnt on there....

If this is the 50 most valuable, I dont know how you leave off Jason Heyward? Andrew McCutchen? Tommy Hanson? Ubaldo?


...I have lots of issues with this list.

FielderJones
05-24-2010, 10:48 PM
I think Danks could be on that list before too long.

Danks needs to cut down his pitches per inning to get a chance to be on that list.

asindc
05-25-2010, 08:22 AM
Danks needs to cut down his pitches per inning to get a chance to be on that list.

I still would rather have him than Lackey at this point.