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tony1972
05-19-2010, 11:11 PM
I cannot remember the last time the White Sox had a sac bunt and ended up scoring. To me..a team that is struggling in the area of offense..why give the other team free outs every game?:scratch: I knew when Nix was bunting in the 6th..the Sox were not going to score. Does Ozzie not like big innings..but wants to go for the itsy, bitsy teeny weeny innings?

Coops4Aces
05-19-2010, 11:22 PM
I cannot remember the last time the White Sox had a sac bunt and ended up scoring. To me..a team that is struggling in the area of offense..why give the other team free outs every game?:scratch: I knew when Nix was bunting in the 6th..the Sox were not going to score. Does Ozzie not like big innings..but wants to go for the itsy, bitsy teeny weeny innings?

:ozzie "You mean you've never heard of Ozzieball?"

PalehosePlanet
05-19-2010, 11:31 PM
I cannot remember the last time the White Sox had a sac bunt and ended up scoring. To me..a team that is struggling in the area of offense..why give the other team free outs every game?:scratch: I knew when Nix was bunting in the 6th..the Sox were not going to score. Does Ozzie not like big innings..but wants to go for the itsy, bitsy teeny weeny innings?

I just posted my hate of this in the post-game thread. It's absolutely ****ing maddening watching your manager mismanage game situations over and over again.

Dub25
05-19-2010, 11:33 PM
I cannot remember the last time the White Sox had a sac bunt and ended up scoring. To me..a team that is struggling in the area of offense..why give the other team free outs every game?:scratch: I knew when Nix was bunting in the 6th..the Sox were not going to score. Does Ozzie not like big innings..but wants to go for the itsy, bitsy teeny weeny innings?

But when you are struggling to get hits, bunting is the right thing to do. If you are struggling like they are where will the big inning come from? You play for the big inning when you are hitting. They are not. so in the Nix situation you bunt and hope the out is a sac fly to score the run.

pudge
05-20-2010, 02:26 AM
What drives me crazier than anything is when he kills the potential for a big inning with a sac bunt. Maybe a pitcher who has started shaky, walked the first guy, and then, boom, FREE OUT. And you're right, the run NEVER seems to score. If it worked more often with this team, I'd be more favorable to the concept, but I think in most cases the sac bunt is a complete waste of an out.

Ranger
05-20-2010, 03:18 AM
I cannot remember the last time the White Sox had a sac bunt and ended up scoring. To me..a team that is struggling in the area of offense..why give the other team free outs every game?:scratch: I knew when Nix was bunting in the 6th..the Sox were not going to score. Does Ozzie not like big innings..but wants to go for the itsy, bitsy teeny weeny innings?

Because for a team that barely gets anyone on base, they sure ground into a hell of a lot of double plays. That's why.

By the way, wasn't it just like a couple of years ago that people were complaining that this team didn't know how to bunt? Yeah, it was a couple of years ago. I remember.

It's Dankerific
05-20-2010, 04:35 AM
Because for a team that barely gets anyone on base, they sure ground into a hell of a lot of double plays. That's why.

By the way, wasn't it just like a couple of years ago that people were complaining that this team didn't know how to bunt? Yeah, it was a couple of years ago. I remember.

I remember a couple of years ago people being upset that people that COULDNT bunt were being asked to bunt. that =/= wanting people to bunt.

Moses_Scurry
05-20-2010, 05:31 AM
Because for a team that barely gets anyone on base, they sure ground into a hell of a lot of double plays. That's why.

By the way, wasn't it just like a couple of years ago that people were complaining that this team didn't know how to bunt? Yeah, it was a couple of years ago. I remember.

People were still against the sac bunt. They just wanted the undesired sac bunts to work.

I've always hated sac bunts, even when I was a kid in the '80's. It just feels like they are letting the pitcher off the hook.

bunty_doghunter
05-20-2010, 05:42 AM
I cannot remember the last time the White Sox had a sac bunt and ended up scoring. To me..a team that is struggling in the area of offense..why give the other team free outs every game?:scratch: I knew when Nix was bunting in the 6th..the Sox were not going to score. Does Ozzie not like big innings..but wants to go for the itsy, bitsy teeny weeny innings?
When you have no outs, late in a tight game, a hitter up who can bunt but can't hit to save his soul, you might use it. Or pinch hit if you can. Otherwise just don't.

NLaloosh
05-20-2010, 06:57 AM
The biggest problem with this offense is that most of these hitters lack many of the fundamentals and are not professional hitters.

THAT'S NOT GREG WALKER'S FAULT.

I have never in my life seen a team, more than once, get 3 outs in 4 pitches. Yes, I've seen this team do it! They regularly let the opposing pitcher off the hook. The pitcher is struggling to throw strikes and they take all the pressure off him by swinging at the first pitch. They are the oposite of the Yankees lineup.

Most of the players in the Sox lineup:

Have a low OBP
Cannot hit to the opposite field when needed
Cannot bunt adequately
Will not force the pitcher to throw as many pitches as they can
Have no game plan when at the plate
Rarely advance runners when the situation is called for
Do not hit well with runners in scoring position

These are the player's characteristics. They have all been playing the game for many years and this is who they are.

Who acquired these players for this lineup ? Greg Walker?

When utilizing his $ 100 mil. payroll Greg Walker decided that left handed power hitters were not needed? He decided that he didn't need many players that take a lot of walks? He didn't need many situational or clutch hitters? He didn't teach them to hit sacrifice flys with a man on third and one out?

And, asking Greg Walker or any M.L. hitting coach to change these habits in 30 year old men is like expecting a Chicago Public High School to turn a bunch of incoming freshmen with tests scores 5 grades behind into excellent students. It's not gonna happen and it's not their fault. It's too late.

I continually watch this team at the plate and find myself saying things to the players that I would say to a nine-year old little leaguer. And, they usually don't execute it any better.

LITTLE NELL
05-20-2010, 07:14 AM
The biggest problem with this offense is that most of these hitters lack many of the fundamentals and are not professional hitters.

THAT'S NOT GREG WALKER'S FAULT.

I have never in my life seen a team, more than once, get 3 outs in 4 pitches. Yes, I've seen this team do it! They regularly let the opposing pitcher off the hook. The pitcher is struggling to throw strikes and they take all the pressure off him by swinging at the first pitch. They are the oposite of the Yankees lineup.

Most of the players in the Sox lineup:

Have a low OBP
Cannot hit to the opposite field when needed
Cannot bunt adequately
Will not force the pitcher to throw as many pitches as they can
Have no game plan when at the plate
Rarely advance runners when the situation is called for
Do not hit well with runners in scoring position

These are the player's characteristics. They have all been playing the game for many years and this is who they are.

Who acquired these players for this lineup ? Greg Walker?

When utilizing his $ 100 mil. payroll Greg Walker decided that left handed power hitters were not needed? He decided that he didn't need many players that take a lot of walks? He didn't need many situational or clutch hitters? He didn't teach them to hit sacrifice flys with a man on third and one out?

And, asking Greg Walker or any M.L. hitting coach to change these habits in 30 year old men is like expecting a Chicago Public High School to turn a bunch of incoming freshmen with tests scores 5 grades behind into excellent students. It's not gonna happen and it's not their fault. It's too late.

Excellent points and this has been going on since the middle of the 2006 season. Some will say we won the division in 2008, if this team could do the things you mentioned we would have won the division by 10 games instead of a 1 game playoff. We also would have won in 2006 except for the hitting meltdown.

veeter
05-20-2010, 08:37 AM
I hate sacrificing from first to second, that may be the dumbest play in baseball. But bunting guys from first and second to second and third, is a really good play. Especially since Nix is worthless swinging the bat, he could contribute, and he did. I blame the supposedly resurgent Andrew Jones for swinging at the first pitch, that might have hit him in the cup if he let it go. This all points back to the Sox having no clue how to hit situationally. Saunders was on the ropes. His defense is going to try to make you hit a pitch off the plate that can't be driven. Andrew, a veteran, took the bait.

asindc
05-20-2010, 09:01 AM
I hate sacrificing from first to second, that may be the dumbest play in baseball. But bunting guys from first and second to second and third, is a really good play. Especially since Nix is worthless swinging the bat, he could contribute, and he did. I blame the supposedly resurgent Andrew Jones for swinging at the first pitch, that might have hit him in the cup if he let it go. This all points back to the Sox having no clue how to hit situationally. Saunders was on the ropes. His defense is going to try to make you hit a pitch off the plate that can't be driven. Andrew, a veteran, took the bait.

Exactly. That was absolutely one of the worst ABs of the season for any Sox player, which is saying a lot, of course.

To answer the original question, I do recall that the Sox have scored on a couple of occasions when the the sac bunt was used, but they are generally terrible at any kind of hitting that does not involve driving the ball "where they ain't."

russ99
05-20-2010, 09:18 AM
It all comes down to executing I'm pressure situations, which none of these guys do well.

It doesn't matter if we bunt guys over or get two singles, we can't get that pressure hit to drive runs in. People think hits lead to big innings, that's wrong. Runs lead to big innings since the pitcher's confidence is shaken and it's harder to pitch effectively.

This is yet another Ozzie scapegoat thread. Do you know why we're bunting guys over? Because that way if we get a lucky hit we could score a run. Otherwise there's little chance of that. Besides, all A.L. managers play for one run from time to time.

I have bigger issues with these guys swinging for the fences and hacking at pitches to get in a 0-2 hole all the time. That's a much bigger reason why we can't score runs, not Ozzie calling for a bunt.

For all the people calling out Ozzie for supposedly wanting this team is ironic. If they played the way Ozzie wants, they'd be a lot better. But everyone's trying to win the game in one at bat.

Dub25
05-20-2010, 10:46 PM
Because for a team that barely gets anyone on base, they sure ground into a hell of a lot of double plays. That's why.

By the way, wasn't it just like a couple of years ago that people were complaining that this team didn't know how to bunt? Yeah, it was a couple of years ago. I remember.

Yes, Ranger and I agree on something. :gulp:

Ranger, a lot of my stuff is tongue and cheek, but when it comes to Greg Walker, I will continue to strongly disagree with you. Strongly as I watch this team put up another 1 run effort thru 7 tonight.

Tragg
05-20-2010, 10:49 PM
Because for a team that barely gets anyone on base,.
complements of ozzie guillen and his philosophy, consistently poor talent evaluation and bizarre personnel requests and decisions.

canOcorn
05-20-2010, 11:03 PM
Because for a team that barely gets anyone on base, they sure ground into a hell of a lot of double plays. That's why.

By the way, wasn't it just like a couple of years ago that people were complaining that this team didn't know how to bunt? Yeah, it was a couple of years ago. I remember.

They only score by hitting HR's. Don't waste outs getting a guy to 2B when you cannot string hits together.

Dub25
05-20-2010, 11:09 PM
They only score by hitting HR's. Don't waste outs getting a guy to 2B when you cannot string hits together.

But when you can't string hits together is why you bunt and like I said before, you hope one of your outs is a fly ball if you have a runner at 3rd with less than 2 outs.

Dub25
05-20-2010, 11:10 PM
They only score by hitting HR's. Don't waste outs getting a guy to 2B when you cannot string hits together.


If Oz had confidence his team could come thru with a clutch hit he wouldn't bunt in situations some of you think require going up and swinging away.

Craig Grebeck
05-20-2010, 11:16 PM
Because for a team that barely gets anyone on base, they sure ground into a hell of a lot of double plays. That's why.

By the way, wasn't it just like a couple of years ago that people were complaining that this team didn't know how to bunt? Yeah, it was a couple of years ago. I remember.
That's an awfully broad brush.

I'd never want that.

canOcorn
05-20-2010, 11:29 PM
But when you can't string hits together is why you bunt and like I said before, you hope one of your outs is a fly ball if you have a runner at 3rd with less than 2 outs.

If Oz had confidence his team could come thru with a clutch hit he wouldn't bunt in situations some of you think require going up and swinging away.

We don't hit situationally, nor do we hit singles. We hit HR's, so don't waste outs trying to advance runners. The sac bunt is one of the worst, if not the worst, way to try and score a run. Maybe with Omar and decent speed on first, is the only time we should give the other team an out.

Dub25
05-20-2010, 11:39 PM
We don't hit situationally, nor do we hit singles. We hit HR's, so don't waste outs trying to advance runners. The sac bunt is one of the worst, if not the worst, way to try and score a run. Maybe with Omar and decent speed on first, is the only time we should give the other team an out.

I don't know, I don't want to argue but I guess I'm going to have to sound like Lou Pinella after a recent Cub game and ask you "what kind of baseball do you watch"?

The funny thing is he asked that to a reporter when questioned about not bunting when his team was struggling to come up with the big hit.

Jerko
05-21-2010, 11:33 AM
Obviously there are situations where "the book" calls for a sac bunt. There are also times where it is a bad idea. (Konerko the lead runner, guys coming up after the bunt who can't hit a fly ball, new pitcher in game getting shelled/has no control, etc). With this offense, the only time I'd be willing to give up an out is to get a guy on 3rd in the bottom of the 9th of a tie game, and even that is if there is nobody out before the bunt. Playing for one run in the first few innings is counter-productive IMO. Even with this vaunted staff, the defense alone is proof that we are gonna need more than 1 or 2 runs to win.

NLaloosh
05-21-2010, 12:42 PM
complements of ozzie guillen and his philosophy, consistently poor talent evaluation and bizarre personnel requests and decisions.

It's not his fault. On base percentage is a complicated concept. Lots of players on base ? Could that mean more runs scored ?

I don't know if they teach that in Venezuela.