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kaufsox
05-16-2010, 07:58 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/05/rangers-inquire-on-pierzynski.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

just the messenger. Mods if in the wrong place, please move and my apologize.

getonbckthr
05-16-2010, 08:10 PM
I love AJ, however the future is Flowers and there is nothing to indicate this version of the team is going anywhere this season.

Marqhead
05-16-2010, 08:11 PM
How is Flowers defensively? I remember reading it certainly wasn't his strong point, has he improved? Is he capable of catching at the ML level?

mzh
05-16-2010, 08:13 PM
How is Flowers defensively? I remember reading it certainly wasn't his strong point, has he improved? Is he capable of catching at the ML level?
Whether he's good defensively or not, he's ripping the ball in AAA. Who would the Rangers send back? Chris Davis maybe, as he's been totally uprooted by Smoak?

Sockinchisox
05-16-2010, 08:19 PM
Whether he's good defensively or not, he's ripping the ball in AAA. Who would the Rangers send back? Chris Davis maybe, as he's been totally uprooted by Smoak?

Flowers isn't exactly "ripping" the ball at AAA. After a fast start he's having an abysmal May hitting .163/.245/.442. His overall line is .257/.358/.543. He's also striking out quite a bit.

DirtySox
05-16-2010, 08:21 PM
How is Flowers defensively? I remember reading it certainly wasn't his strong point, has he improved? Is he capable of catching at the ML level?

He's below average defensively. Not that AJ was a defensive whiz by any means. The tolerance of his defense is very likely tied to his offensive ability. That being said, he strikes out alot.

This year in AAA he's sitting at around 35% which is higher than usual. He also walks plenty and is very selective at the plate. The K's are very tolerable if he's OPSing 800+.

I don't think he's the type of player that is going to set the world on fire right upon promotion. Such is often the case with catchers due to what is demanded of them. Considering the circumstances of this year's Sox team, now is the best time for him to acclimate to major league pitching.

I would have no problem saying goodbye to AJ. One of the most overrated players around these parts.

cws05champ
05-16-2010, 08:29 PM
If the Sox have to pick up the majority of the salary for this year the Rangers better give a very good prospect(s) back.

Martin Perez please!!

JohnTucker0814
05-16-2010, 08:55 PM
If the Sox have to pick up the majority of the salary for this year the Rangers better give a very good prospect(s) back.

Martin Perez please!!

Yeah, I'd take Martin Perez!!!! :D:

If we keep playing like we have, I'd prefer to go ahead and have a "white flag" trade sell off.

A.J. Pierzynski
Paul Konerko
Andruw Jones
Bobby Jenks

The places that might be willing to pay for these players:

Boston - 1B and/or C (maybe they move Martinez to 1B and add a C)
Texas - RP and C
Tampa Bay - DH
Philadelphia - OF (Ibanez???)
St. Louis - OF
Colorado - OF, C

Any other ideas out there as to who might be looking??

btw... I'm not giving up just yet! I think we can turn it around. I don't know if we will or if what will happen. But if by the end of this month we are still playing like this, I'm all for adding some young talent to our minors and bring up Danks for Jones, Viciedo for Konerko, Flowers for Pierzynski and Hudson for Jenks (Hudson wouldn't be the closer, obviously!)

voodoochile
05-16-2010, 08:56 PM
If the Sox have to pick up the majority of the salary for this year the Rangers better give a very good prospect(s) back.

Martin Perez please!!

Yeah, I'd take Martin Perez!!!! :D:


So as someone who has no idea who Martin Perez is, I guess it's safe to assume the Sox are not getting Martin Perez...:dunno:

Marqhead
05-16-2010, 08:58 PM
So as someone who has no idea who Martin Perez is, I guess it's safe to assume the Sox are not getting Martin Perez...:dunno:

Oh those Dynasty league guys and their inside jokes.

Martin Perez is the Rangers top minor league prospect, so no, we will not be getting him.

getonbckthr
05-16-2010, 09:04 PM
I know Saltalamacchia has become the catching equilavent to Chuck Knoblauch. Has Texas given up on him?

DirtySox
05-16-2010, 09:10 PM
I know Saltalamacchia has become the catching equilavent to Chuck Knoblauch. Has Texas given up on him?

Good question. I think he's staying put in the minors until the yips are gone.

He can't even throw the ball back to the pitcher. Earlier this week he missed 12 different times.

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100512&content_id=9994564&vkey=news_t238&fext=.jsp&sid=t238

Daver
05-16-2010, 09:30 PM
How is Flowers defensively? I remember reading it certainly wasn't his strong point, has he improved? Is he capable of catching at the ML level?

Flowers will make you miss the fine defensive skills of AJ Pierzinski.

dickallen15
05-16-2010, 09:38 PM
You are only going to hurt the pitchers installing Flowers behind the plate, just like people can't wait to go to a White Sox game and watch John Danks strike someone out in the top of an inning and Jordan Danks strike out in the bottom of the same inning, but really you should be careful what you wish for. AJP isn't perfect behind the plate, but compared to Flowers, he's Johnny Bench in his prime.

TDog
05-16-2010, 09:46 PM
I know Saltalamacchia has become the catching equilavent to Chuck Knoblauch. Has Texas given up on him?

Interesting Saltalamacchia's name should be brought up. He was tearing apart AAA when the Braves brought him up a couple of years ago, and the fantasy/stats people were in love with him before he ever played. He has never been a great hitter at the major league level, and his defense has been horrid at times. Adam Moore for the Mariners was hitting great in the minors but is hitting below .200 in the majors and has been downright comical at times on defense.

I can't believe the White Sox want to commit to Flowers as the regular catcher. Just looking at his passed balls and the steals against him tell me his defense hasn't improved much. If you put a below-average-defensively rookie catcher behind the plate with a team built around pitching, the pressure of learning to catch at the major league level is going to hurt his offense. That's generally the way it goes, anyway.

If the White Sox trade Pierzynski, it wouldn't surprise me to see Lucy recalled to split the catching duties with Castro.

Frater Perdurabo
05-16-2010, 09:50 PM
Why isn't anyone mentioning Donny Lucy? It was admittedly in limited playing time, but when he did play he looked good. He hit well, stole a base, and threw out some runners.

More than anything else, on a team built to live and die with pitching, the Sox need a catcher who can catch. Unless Flowers is a .950+ OPS hitter, I'm not interested in seeing him flub around behind the plate. And if he is a .950+ OPS hitter, he should play 1B or DH.

DirtySox
05-16-2010, 09:54 PM
Why isn't anyone mentioning Donny Lucy? It was admittedly in limited playing time, but when he did play he looked good. He hit well, stole a base, and threw out some runners.

More than anything else, on a team built to live and die with pitching, the Sox need a catcher who can catch. Unless Flowers is a .950+ OPS hitter, I'm not interested in seeing him flub around behind the plate. And if he is a .950+ OPS hitter, he should play 1B or DH.

Why does everyone think Lucy is some magical top prospect? He's a backup at best. Take a look at his minor league numbers. If he had had a decent number of AB's, he would have been exposed for what he is.

Flowers is not likely to be a 950+ OPS hitter. Certainly not anytime soon anyway. If the Sox end up conceding the season and trade off worthwhile pieces, it's best for him to take his lumps in what will amount to meaningless games. Even if he absolutely tanks, it's better to know that he sucks now than next year when the team hopes to contend.

Frater Perdurabo
05-16-2010, 10:02 PM
Why does everyone think Lucy is some magical top prospect? He's a backup at best. Take a look at his minor league numbers. If he had had a decent number of AB's, he would have been exposed for what he is.

Flowers is not likely to be a 950+ OPS hitter. Certainly not anytime soon anyway. If the Sox end up conceding the season and trade off worthwhile pieces, it's best for him to take his lumps in what will amount to meaningless games. Even if he absolutely tanks, it's better to know that he sucks now than next year when the team hopes to contend.

No one thinks Lucy is a magical top prospect. But he performed well in his short stint and I think that merits an extended chance to try to prove that he can be a serviceable starting catcher, especially in the lost season that 2010 rapidly is becoming.

If Flowers cannot field his position well, why even waste our time?

DirtySox
05-16-2010, 10:07 PM
No one thinks Lucy is a magical top prospect. But he performed well in his short stint and I think that merits an extended chance to try to prove that he can be a serviceable starting catcher, especially in the lost season that 2010 rapidly is becoming.

If Flowers cannot field his position well, why even waste our time?

Because it remains to be seen that he cannot field his position. He's garnered enough opinions that he is capable of staying behind the plate, especially if the bat plays. It's fairly common that defensive concessions are made in favor of offense. You can't always have the best of both worlds in that regard.

The thought of Lucy as a starting candidate is laughable. He was almost released in the off-season.

Noneck
05-16-2010, 10:27 PM
The thought of Lucy as a starting candidate is laughable.

Not really. Lucy would be capable defensive catcher for the rest of a lost year. What they do with Flowers and next years catching duties, can be addressed in the off season.

Brian26
05-16-2010, 10:31 PM
Not really. Lucy would be capable defensive catcher for the rest of a lost year. What they do with Flowers and next years catching duties, can be addressed in the off season.

To me, this being a "lost year" is the perfect reason & opportunity to plug Flowers in now and see what he can do. The words "we'll address this in the off-season" make me cringe now.

Frater Perdurabo
05-16-2010, 10:34 PM
It's fairly common that defensive concessions are made in favor of offense.

The problem is that the Sox almost always make this concession.

I think defense needs to be a priority up the middle and at third base. I'm OK with making that tradeoff in RF, LF and 1B, and make up the difference by getting a pure hitter to DH, provided that you have a couple of players who play critical defensive positions that can hit well.

Thank goodness Rios can hit and field well, and Beckham and Alexei are acceptable with the glove and at least project to be decent hitters.

But combined with Teahen's butchery, Flowers would make an already mediocre defense even worse.

Therefore, because we can do little else than hope that Quentin and Beckham improve with the bats, I think the Sox need to emphasize defense at third base and catcher.

Noneck
05-16-2010, 10:39 PM
To me, this being a "lost year" is the perfect reason & opportunity to plug Flowers in now and see what he can do. The words "we'll address this in the off-season" make me cringe now.

What I really meant was see what the Sox can get for Flowers now. If he can for some reason learn to catch it cant be in the bigs, he would have to learn that where he is now. If not, is he really worth anything to the Sox as a 1st baseman or a DH?

Frater Perdurabo
05-16-2010, 10:40 PM
To me, this being a "lost year" is the perfect reason & opportunity to plug Flowers in now and see what he can do. The words "we'll address this in the off-season" make me cringe now.

It's for the same reason that I would go with Lucy for the rest of 2010. Maybe he learns to hit MLB pitching. Maybe not. But he's not going to learn to hit MLB pitching by playing in Charlotte. But at least we know he can catch.

OTOH, we know Flowers cannot catch well. If he cannot improve his catching in Charlotte, what makes us think he would improve his catching in Chicago?

JB98
05-16-2010, 10:41 PM
To me, this being a "lost year" is the perfect reason & opportunity to plug Flowers in now and see what he can do. The words "we'll address this in the off-season" make me cringe now.

I agree with you. I think we know what Donny Lucy is. He's pretty good defensively, but he can't hit a lick. There's a reason he's been in AAA for awhile. He's a backup MLB catcher at best.

Flowers has the higher ceiling. If the Sox believe this year is a lost cause, this would be a great time to see what we can find out about Tyler Flowers. Maybe we find out he sucks, and we have to try somebody else. Or maybe we find out his future is at DH. Or maybe we find out he can catch every day in MLB. Who knows?

In any case, I'd rather devote the second half of this year to learning more about Flowers than plug in a guy like Lucy, who is clearly not a long-term answer at the position.

DirtySox
05-16-2010, 10:41 PM
Not really. Lucy would be capable defensive catcher for the rest of a lost year. What they do with Flowers and next years catching duties, can be addressed in the off season.

If this is a lost season, why does it matter that Lucy is a capable defender? We know that already. We need to know if Flowers can be an adequate catcher (and hitter) at the next level. Half a season of meaningless games is the perfect time to do so. If he fails completely and we need an alternative, better to know that now than in the middle of next year.

Noneck
05-16-2010, 10:48 PM
If this is a lost season, why does it matter that Lucy is a capable defender? We know that already. We need to know if Flowers can be an adequate catcher (and hitter) at the next level. Half a season of meaningless games is the perfect time to do so. If he fails completely and we need an alternative, better to know that now than in the middle of next year.

What I hear and read, hes not ready to catch in the big leagues. Is it the correct method to teach a catcher what to do, at the major league level?

Frater Perdurabo
05-16-2010, 10:49 PM
I haven't seen a single objective analysis that says that Flowers has improved to the point that he would be even an average defensive catcher.

If this season continues down the tubes, then AJ and Paulie both could/should be dealt. (Trading Paulie this year would make it possible for the Sox to bring him back for 2011 at a lower cost than they would be forced to pay him in an arbitration award or an extension, in which the MLBPA would not let him take more than a 20% pay cut.)

That means there would be room for both Lucy and Flowers to get plenty of ABs, and split time behind the plate, with Flowers also getting ABs at DH (and Viciedo at 1B).

DirtySox
05-16-2010, 10:59 PM
I haven't seen a single objective analysis that says that Flowers has improved to the point that he would be even an average defensive catcher.

I must have missed the rule where he has to be an average defensively to play behind the plate.

The organization clearly has faith that he can either be suitable behind the plate or are willing to forgo his defense for his offense. He hasn't been taking significant reps at any other position. I think it's apparent that they are going to see how he fares at catcher and not move him off unless absolutely necessary.

If the Sox think he's ready you better believe the higher ceiling top organizational prospect is getting reps over the organizational fodder backup catcher.

Frater Perdurabo
05-16-2010, 11:08 PM
I must have missed the rule where he has to be an average defensively to play behind the plate.

Not a rule, but it is a good guideline for teams that want to win a championship.

Who was the last team to have a below-average fielding starting catcher to win the World Series? I can't think of one, can you?

Daver
05-16-2010, 11:09 PM
Not a rule, but it is a good guideline for teams that want to win a championship.

Who was the last team to have a below-average fielding starting catcher to win the World Series? I can't think of one, can you?

The 2005 Chicago White Sox.

Frater Perdurabo
05-16-2010, 11:11 PM
The organization clearly has faith that he can either be suitable behind the plate or are willing to forgo his defense for his offense.

This alone damns Flowers defensively.

The Sox don't know how to recognize good defense, even though they see it 18 times a year when they play the Twins.

Of course they are willing to forego defense for offense, even at critical defensive positions. Unfortunately, the offense they get also is subpar.

Frater Perdurabo
05-16-2010, 11:11 PM
The 2005 Chicago White Sox.

Come on, AJ is better than "below avearge."

TDog
05-16-2010, 11:12 PM
To me, this being a "lost year" is the perfect reason & opportunity to plug Flowers in now and see what he can do. The words "we'll address this in the off-season" make me cringe now.

If Flowers is going to be the hitter the organization believes he will be, I don't see how they could saddle him with the responsibility of learning to catch at the major league level. The organization committed last year to developing Beckham at the major league level, and this year they moved him to second where he should be more comfortable. But being a middle infielder is different from catching, being defensively involved in every pitch when your team is in the field. The responsibility of learning to catch in the majors most likely would affect his hitting.

Flowers played some first base in the Braves system, although he doesn't seem to have played very well there. Flowers has only caught in the Sox system, so it looks like they are determined to make him into a catcher. It's possible the organization will see this as a lost season and bring up Flowers, but they would win more games with a weak-hitting solid defensive catcher.

Daver
05-16-2010, 11:14 PM
Come on, AJ is better than "below avearge."

Based on what?

DirtySox
05-16-2010, 11:17 PM
Flowers played some first base in the Braves system, although he doesn't seem to have played very well there. Flowers has only caught in the Sox system, so it looks like they are determined to make him into a catcher. It's possible the organization will see this as a lost season and bring up Flowers, but they would win more games with a weak-hitting solid defensive catcher.

Well put, and a fair assessment. It's what I'm attempting to convey. I would tend to agree they would win more with a better defensive catcher the rest of the year, but I think the organization will value getting a read on Flowers more highly.

PhillipsBubba
05-16-2010, 11:26 PM
Flowers isn't exactly "ripping" the ball at AAA. After a fast start he's having an abysmal May hitting .163/.245/.442. His overall line is .257/.358/.543. He's also striking out quite a bit.

Don't worry about that. Greg Walker will straighten him out!

DirtySox
05-16-2010, 11:37 PM
Don't worry about that. Greg Walker will straighten him out!

Ugh. And I already think Flowers will have a long adjustment period without the inclusion of Walker.

Rockabilly
05-16-2010, 11:56 PM
What could we get for AJ from TX?

Tragg
05-17-2010, 12:03 AM
To me, this being a "lost year" is the perfect reason & opportunity to plug Flowers in now and see what he can do. The words "we'll address this in the off-season" make me cringe now.
Except that you don't want to rush him.

Question- is Beckham a better 2B or 3B?

Daver
05-17-2010, 12:09 AM
Except that you don't want to rush him.

Question- is Beckham a better 2B or 3B?

I'm on record saying he is better suited for third, for what it is worth.

Tragg
05-17-2010, 12:35 AM
I'm on record saying he is better suited for third, for what it is worth.

I remember you commenting last year that you thought Beckham showed promise defensively at 3rd.

From what I've read, Teahan is a terror at 3rd; I conclude he can't be any worse at 2nd. Thus, why not switch them?

Nellie_Fox
05-17-2010, 02:06 AM
Whether he's good defensively or not, he's ripping the ball in AAA.Putting offense above defense for a catcher is a recipe for disaster.

Not that AJ was a defensive whiz by any means. AJ's only defensive shortcoming is his throwing.

It's fairly common that defensive concessions are made in favor of offense. You can't always have the best of both worlds in that regard.Again, that's a serious mistake at catcher. Baseball has been led down a primrose path by players at "defensive" positions who can also hit, leading teams to start putting offense above defense at those positions. It's great if you can get both, but the glove should come first.

voodoochile
05-17-2010, 02:15 AM
I remember you commenting last year that you thought Beckham showed promise defensively at 3rd.

From what I've read, Teahan is a terror at 3rd; I conclude he can't be any worse at 2nd. Thus, why not switch them?

Teahen at 2nd? With his range? With no experience or practice turning the DP? :o:

Beckham moves to third, Nix becomes the everyday 2B with the current lineup. Maybe he splits time with Omar, but Teahen will never be a 2B, period.

I actually think Beckham is starting to grow into a 2B, though he's not making every play, he's starting to make more and he's becoming more adept at turning over the DP.

Long term, maybe the Sox should wait and see if Hudson is available next off season. He can become completely unrestricted, if he qualifies as Type A FA. Twins can't even offer him arb according to Cots. He'd be 33 next year but bats second and plays 2B.

Guess it depends on how Teahen and Beckham perform the rest of the year. If Teahen can get his OPS back to his career numbers, then I say leave well enough alone. That also assumes Beckham starts to hit again. If not, then Beckham needs to spend the rest of the year in AAA finding his stroke again the minute the team is out of it and maybe Teahen can be moved to a team looking for a LH PH or become the utility guy next year 3B/1B/RF/LF - take Kotsay's role as it were...

Edit: I guess I had a brain fart and upon checking I see that Teahen actually has played some 2B in the past, but I just don't see it. The man is a fireplug...

PalehosePlanet
05-17-2010, 02:27 AM
I haven't seen a single objective analysis that says that Flowers has improved to the point that he would be even an average defensive catcher.

If this season continues down the tubes, then AJ and Paulie both could/should be dealt. (Trading Paulie this year would make it possible for the Sox to bring him back for 2011 at a lower cost than they would be forced to pay him in an arbitration award or an extension, in which the MLBPA would not let him take more than a 20% pay cut.)

That means there would be room for both Lucy and Flowers to get plenty of ABs, and split time behind the plate, with Flowers also getting ABs at DH (and Viciedo at 1B).

Kevin Goldstein of BP disagrees with you. Flowers was also voted the Southern League's best defensive catcher by the managers of that league.

Now, of course, there are other scouts that think because of his big frame that he'd be better suited for 1B. But his defense has definitely improved.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/card/card.php?id=FLOWERS19860124A

WhiteSox5187
05-17-2010, 04:37 AM
Kevin Goldstein of BP disagrees with you. Flowers was also voted the Southern League's best defensive catcher by the managers of that league.

Now, of course, there are other scouts that think because of his big frame that he'd be better suited for 1B. But his defense has definitely improved.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/card/card.php?id=FLOWERS19860124A

I just read an article on ESPN on my phone that said he has regressed an awful lot this year.

TDog
05-17-2010, 05:03 AM
Kevin Goldstein of BP disagrees with you. Flowers was also voted the Southern League's best defensive catcher by the managers of that league.

Now, of course, there are other scouts that think because of his big frame that he'd be better suited for 1B. But his defense has definitely improved.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/card/card.php?id=FLOWERS19860124A

Scouting reports on minor leaguers can vary widely, and that seems to be the case with Tyler Flowers. Flowers caught 77 games in his Southern League season and had 7 passed balls, although he did throw out 22 of the 65 runners who tried to steal against him. Those numbers don't scream "best defensive catcher," but sometimes stats can be deceptive.

Miguel Olivo caught 192 games for Birmingham in 2001 and 2002, and he was charged with 40 passed balls. Olivo had a lot of passed balls as a minor leaguer. He even had 11 while catching 50 games for Modesto in 2000, the season the A's gave up on him, and yet he was the catcher in the White Sox 2003 home opener. Ultimately, the White Sox were unhappy with his defensive development and his handling of pitchers despite his great arm. Olivo is now with his sixth team in his second league, and he has never made an All-Star team, despite the praise lavished on him in the Chicago media when he was traded away.

Last September, the White Sox didn't start Flowers at catcher until they were mathematically eliminated. He didn't start the season as the backup catcher because the Sox believed he needed more work in the minors. It's possible they could turn the full-time catching duties over to him this season, but they have to expect Flowers won't hit and the pitchers will suffer.

NLaloosh
05-17-2010, 07:26 AM
Personally, I think Atlanta completely hosed the Sox on this deal. I doubt that Flowers will ever be the defensive talent that even A.J. is and offensively I don't think he'll be good enough to play 1B or DH.

Maybe, as a backup catcher / occassional DH.

g0g0
05-17-2010, 08:57 AM
Gah! I hope he doesn't go. I don't want to pack in the season yet, especially with my favorite player. :(:

tm1119
05-17-2010, 12:46 PM
Is AJ REALLY the defensive player people to make him out to be at this point in his career? I mean this pitching staff is full of nothing but talent and its underachieving quite a bit right now. I know thats not all AJ's fault, but it doesnt make him look very good either. And we all know about his struggles with throwing runners out. So my point is, would the defensive difference between the 2 really negate the fact that Flowers is a much better hitter?

As far as Im concerned if Texas is willing to pay his entire salary they can have him. No need for a return.

parlaycard
05-17-2010, 01:02 PM
Yeah, I'd take Martin Perez!!!! :D:

If we keep playing like we have, I'd prefer to go ahead and have a "white flag" trade sell off.

Andruw Jones




It would be a good idea that the Sox sell off the $350k they still owe Jones for the rest of this season. Otherwise it could get ugly.


I dont know how theyre paying the bills with this guy's salary hanging over their heads. Get him out of here asap.

DirtySox
05-17-2010, 01:06 PM
It would be a good idea that the Sox sell off the $350k they still owe Jones for the rest of this season. Otherwise it could get ugly.


I dont know how theyre paying the bills with this guy's salary hanging over their heads. Get him out of here asap.

C'mon now. It's fairly obvious that people are advocating the movement of Jones because he has a chance to provide a return of something worthwhile as opposed to some of the higher salaried players. He will also be a free agent next year. This is the same reason Putz will likely be moved as well.

cws05champ
05-17-2010, 01:32 PM
Is AJ REALLY the defensive player people to make him out to be at this point in his career? I mean this pitching staff is full of nothing but talent and its underachieving quite a bit right now. I know thats not all AJ's fault, but it doesnt make him look very good either. And we all know about his struggles with throwing runners out. So my point is, would the defensive difference between the 2 really negate the fact that Flowers is a much better hitter?

As far as Im concerned if Texas is willing to pay his entire salary they can have him. No need for a return.
We don't know that Flowers is a better hitter at the ML level yet. My guess would be that right now he is not a better hitter than AJ(even with AJ in a funk). He may hit for more power than AJ but he'll probably be around .200-.240 with a half way decent OBP and a ton of strikeouts.

I'd be OK with Flowers catching 4 days a week and Castro for 2 days a week if AJ brings back some decent prospect.

tm1119
05-17-2010, 07:17 PM
We don't know that Flowers is a better hitter at the ML level yet. My guess would be that right now he is not a better hitter than AJ(even with AJ in a funk). He may hit for more power than AJ but he'll probably be around .200-.240 with a half way decent OBP and a ton of strikeouts.

I'd be OK with Flowers catching 4 days a week and Castro for 2 days a week if AJ brings back some decent prospect.

How are you able to come up with an average of .200-.240 for Flowers. Thats a pretty specific number for a guy who has very few AB's in the majors and a .280+ average in the minors. I only say he will hit better than AJ because AJ is more or less useless, even when not in a "funk". Sure he hits for a pretty good average, but his OBP and SLG% are both always bad. Add in the fact that he is extremely slow and that makes him a base clogging singles hitter when no one is on base. Flowers would be a welcomed addition to this offense with out a doubt when compared to AJ.

And no, AJ would not bring back a decent prospect. Probably a PTBNL or maybe a A prospect or 2. AJ makes too much money and isnt productive enough to get anything worth while for.

DirtySox
05-17-2010, 07:20 PM
How are you able to come up with an average of .200-.240 for Flowers. Thats a pretty specific number for a guy who has very few AB's in the majors and a .280+ average in the minors. I only say he will hit better than AJ because AJ is more or less useless, even when not in a "funk". Sure he hits for a pretty good average, but his OBP and SLG% are both always bad. Add in the fact that he is extremely slow and that makes him a base clogging singles hitter when no one is on base. Flowers would be a welcomed addition to this offense with out a doubt when compared to AJ.

And no, AJ would not bring back a decent prospect. Probably a PTBNL or maybe a A prospect or 2. AJ makes too much money and isnt productive enough to get anything worth while for.

.200 to .240 doesn't seem unreasonable. Especially with his K-rate. Mike Napoli is a frequent comparison. I see Flowers as a .260 to .270 hitter at his peak.

tm1119
05-17-2010, 07:46 PM
.200 to .240 doesn't seem unreasonable. Especially with his K-rate. Mike Napoli is a frequent comparison. I see Flowers as a .260 to .270 hitter at his peak.

Id say a career average of .270 is a fair number for Flowers, but saying thats his peak may be selling him a little low. But still Flowers hitting .250 with 20 hrs and a .350 OBP is >>>> Aj hitting .290 with 7 hrs and a .320 OBP.

DirtySox
05-17-2010, 07:54 PM
Id say a career average of .270 is a fair number for Flowers, but saying thats his peak may be selling him a little low. But still Flowers hitting .250 with 20 hrs and a .350 OBP is >>>> Aj hitting .290 with 7 hrs and a .320 OBP.

Indeed major league equivalencies are hard to predict. I just don't think anything above .270 will be very sustainable unless he manages to shorten his swing tons.

Highly agree with your second point. Would take that line from a catcher any day of the week.