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View Full Version : Kenny and Ozzie request...


NLaloosh
05-15-2010, 06:07 AM
After seeing yesterday's lineup for a Major league baseball game with a 43 year-old Omar Vizquel asked to be the Designated hitter for the first time in his 22 year career I am making a request of both Kenny Williams and Ozzie Guillen... please leave.

Come to think of it take Omar with you. There's been no evidence of him having any positive influence on Mark Teahen, Gordon Beckham or Alexei Ramirez - defensively or offensively.

I have nothing against Omar but maybe, just maybe, what this team needed even more than Omar Viquel was a player that could hit the snot out of the baseball! But, that's just hindsight. I recall vividly all the posters on here after last season ended clamoring for the addition of Omar Vizquel.

It's time for a new regime in White Sox land.

white sox bill
05-15-2010, 07:51 AM
Please refrain from referring to Omar as a DH, especially the H part. He is a DB for Designated Batter.

Rohan
05-15-2010, 08:18 AM
Let's make more threads about the exact same thing. :rolleyes:

I can't stand the mentality of this place sometimes. It's really not the end of the world. Omar Vizquel is a good presence in the ball club. I've heard it from several active members of the current team. I've also seen Omar Vizquel working one on one with Alexei Ramirez in spring training.

Your healthy options for designated hitter last night: Jayson Nix & Omar Vizquel. What would you have done? And it would it really have made much of a difference?

Dan H
05-15-2010, 09:02 AM
Let's make more threads about the exact same thing. :rolleyes:

I can't stand the mentality of this place sometimes. It's really not the end of the world. Omar Vizquel is a good presence in the ball club. I've heard it from several active members of the current team. I've also seen Omar Vizquel working one on one with Alexei Ramirez in spring training.

Your healthy options for designated hitter last night: Jayson Nix & Omar Vizquel. What would you have done? And it would it really have made much of a difference?

I think that it wouldn't made any difference is the point. This team is showing no life. Most importantly, Quentin and Ramirez, two young stars of the '08 team, have regressed. The future doesn't look bright.

35 games is not just a slump. It is an indication of a team that is not very good. I hope I'm wrong and the team reverses itself. But that is only a hope.

If the Sox have another sub-.500, some hard decisions will have to be made. And if this thread is the same as others, it is because we have little else to talk about. Optimism? How about the Sox winning four games in a row? Or at least have four games where they score some runs.

tick53
05-15-2010, 09:06 AM
Yeah. Terrible line up overall last night.

dickallen15
05-15-2010, 09:13 AM
Let's make more threads about the exact same thing. :rolleyes:

I can't stand the mentality of this place sometimes. It's really not the end of the world. Omar Vizquel is a good presence in the ball club. I've heard it from several active members of the current team. I've also seen Omar Vizquel working one on one with Alexei Ramirez in spring training.

Your healthy options for designated hitter last night: Jayson Nix & Omar Vizquel. What would you have done? And it would it really have made much of a difference?

If he's such a great presence how come the team is still horrible? How come Alexei still is out of position often and still makes the same mental mistakes over and over again? If Omar must play, play him in the field. Why not DH a guy who cannot play 3B in Mark Teahen? Vizquel's value is his glove at this point. He brings nothing offensively. If he's going to play he needs to be in the field. At least Ozzie was wise enough to hit him 9th. Batting him leadoff and second was just as if not more ridiculous than using him as a DH.

white sox bill
05-15-2010, 09:16 AM
Yea they say its always darkest before dawn. Isn't it time for sunrise yet??!!

russ99
05-15-2010, 09:44 AM
Alright smart guys, who would you have put in? Jones is hurt, Quentin lost, nobody else is producing.

Omar Vizquel is a member of this team, and until he's not, the manager has him available for whatever position he can fill. The point of a bench player is to fill in when other can't go which was obviously the case last night.

As I said in another thread, if other players were producing, Vizquel would be limited to playing Sundays at SS. Since the team is so ineffective, Ozzie has to shuffle things around the best he can, and that includes trying Vizquel at DH.

This is called managing a baseball club and 29 other guys do it too, not some moment of insanity by Ozzie.

And really, did Vizquel lose us the game last night? Sheesh...

I have a Kenny and Ozzie request - stop lashing out at them for things they have little control over, such as 8-10 guys suddenly forgetting how to hit.

dickallen15
05-15-2010, 09:52 AM
Alright smart guys, who would you have put in? Jones is hurt, Quentin lost, nobody else is producing.

Omar Vizquel is a member of this team, and until he's not, the manager has him available for whatever position he can fill. The point of a bench player is to fill in when other can't go which was obviously the case last night.

As I said in another thread, if other players were producing, Vizquel would be limited to playing Sundays at SS. Since the team is so ineffective, Ozzie has to shuffle things around the best he can, and that includes trying Vizquel at DH.

This is called managing a baseball club and 29 other guys do it too, not some moment of insanity by Ozzie.

And really, did Vizquel lose us the game last night? Sheesh...

I have a Kenny and Ozzie request - stop lashing out at them for things they have little control over, such as 8-10 guys suddenly forgetting how to hit.

Vizquel 3b, Teahen DH. Is Omar not a better defender than Teahen? If he's not he really shouldn't be on the roster. Omar is now playing his 22 season in MLB. Last night was the first time he was a DH. At this stage of the game, its pretty silly. If the White Sox roster is that thin, the people in charge of crafting it probably need to be replaced.

Domeshot17
05-15-2010, 09:55 AM
Russ, by your account, can the Manager and GM do no wrong? This team is built the way Ozzie wants it. Ozzie has been vocal thinking an NL style team can win in the AL. He was wrong. Kenny allowed this to happen, and really, has not pt the Sox in position to win much since 2007. His constant grasping and comeback or break out players that consistently fail has been one the main reasons we have been just bad since 2007. 2010 looks to be our 3rd pathetically bad losing season in 4 years. Ozzie and Kenny were wrong to put so much on Beckham, wrong to think Quentin can be the best hitter on a team, wrong to think Teahen was a hidden gem.

I know you all think they should get a free pass because of 2005, but All they have proven is 2005 was the outlier, not 2007, or 2009, or 2010.

kevingrt
05-15-2010, 12:17 PM
Can we just have two threads one for Ozzie bashing and one for Kenny bashing. Do we need a different thread every day saying the same stuff?

captain54
05-15-2010, 12:23 PM
stop lashing out at them for things they have little control over, such as 8-10 guys suddenly forgetting how to hit.

If you have 8-10 guys who suddenly forgot how to hit, maybe those 8-10 are simply not that good.

Kenny Williams has the fourth highest payroll in the AL, and is paid very well to put a quality product on the field. Not only is this not a quality product, it is one of the weakest products in MLB.

where's the accountability?

soltrain21
05-15-2010, 02:27 PM
Russ, by your account, can the Manager and GM do no wrong? This team is built the way Ozzie wants it. Ozzie has been vocal thinking an NL style team can win in the AL. He was wrong. Kenny allowed this to happen, and really, has not pt the Sox in position to win much since 2007. His constant grasping and comeback or break out players that consistently fail has been one the main reasons we have been just bad since 2007. 2010 looks to be our 3rd pathetically bad losing season in 4 years. Ozzie and Kenny were wrong to put so much on Beckham, wrong to think Quentin can be the best hitter on a team, wrong to think Teahen was a hidden gem.

I know you all think they should get a free pass because of 2005, but All they have proven is 2005 was the outlier, not 2007, or 2009, or 2010.

This isn't a good team in the NL, either. That's the sad part.

kittle42
05-15-2010, 03:01 PM
At least I've basically stopped paying attention.

Mid-May and I'm done. Worst season ever. Like, really - I have never cared this little this soon.

dickallen15
05-15-2010, 03:16 PM
At least KW was outbid for Nick Johnson. Looks like he'll be out until August and he isn't hitting .200 either.

Frater Perdurabo
05-15-2010, 03:33 PM
I think KW should start "shopping" overpriced vets like Linebrink, Teahen and Pierre. By "shopping," I mean taking the first offer where he doesn't have to pick up salary. If that means getting back a bucket chewing tobacco spittle, so be it. The fans won't revolt if either of those three is dealt.

Frater Perdurabo
05-15-2010, 03:39 PM
Moving forward, the Sox have a lot of payroll locked up in Peavy, Buehrle and Rios. Thankfully, it isn't the worst thing to have have your two best starters and your five-tool middle-of-the-order CF as your most expensive players.

Anyway, given that a payroll cut is almost certain (unless this squad starts winning ASAP to put butts in seats), it's clear the Sox will have to rely on a larger number of younger position players.

Therefore, I want a manager, bench coach and hitting coach who have proven track records of developing and maximizing young position players.

Ozzie, Cora and Walker do not have this reputation.

Tragg
05-15-2010, 04:33 PM
Let's make more threads about the exact same thing. :rolleyes:

I can't stand the mentality of this place sometimes. It's really not the end of the world. Omar Vizquel is a good presence in the ball club. I've heard it from several active members of the current team. I've also seen Omar Vizquel working one on one with Alexei Ramirez in spring training.
?
that's the problem - The Sox worrying about a good clubhouse instead of talent. Guillen among his other qualities, has the mist eggshell pesona of any coach or manager I've seen.

Boondock Saint
05-15-2010, 04:37 PM
Moving forward, the Sox have a lot of payroll locked up in Peavy, Buehrle and Rios. Thankfully, it isn't the worst thing to have have your two best starters and your five-tool middle-of-the-order CF as your most expensive players.

Anyway, given that a payroll cut is almost certain (unless this squad starts winning ASAP to put butts in seats), it's clear the Sox will have to rely on a larger number of younger position players.

Therefore, I want a manager, bench coach and hitting coach who have proven track records of developing and maximizing young position players.

Ozzie, Cora and Walker do not have this reputation.

If Buehrle is our second best starter, then my ass is a banjo. The only guy pitching worse than him right now is Gavin.

russ99
05-15-2010, 05:44 PM
Russ, by your account, can the Manager and GM do no wrong? This team is built the way Ozzie wants it. Ozzie has been vocal thinking an NL style team can win in the AL. He was wrong. Kenny allowed this to happen, and really, has not pt the Sox in position to win much since 2007. His constant grasping and comeback or break out players that consistently fail has been one the main reasons we have been just bad since 2007. 2010 looks to be our 3rd pathetically bad losing season in 4 years. Ozzie and Kenny were wrong to put so much on Beckham, wrong to think Quentin can be the best hitter on a team, wrong to think Teahen was a hidden gem.

I know you all think they should get a free pass because of 2005, but All they have proven is 2005 was the outlier, not 2007, or 2009, or 2010.

No, none whatsoever. The manager and GM can do wrong, and have done so from time to time. But it serves nobody to bash them every step of the way, when nothing can be done right now to fix this other than what they've been doing. I'll save my bashing for the end of the season when we see the entire picture. At this point, I have bigger issues with ownership and certain players than the manager and GM.

We wish Kenny had more payroll to work with this offseason and in prior years where he was forced to go the reclamation route - but that wasn't the case so I don't get the constant wishful thinking that we could have had better players. One way or another you have to pay for talent. Besides, IMO their performance is the problem, not the players themselves. Had these guys had average years so far, we'd be above .500.

I firmly believe that AL teams with more NL-style strategy and more athletic players can compete. But these guys aren't that team. Ozzie was basing that on what Rios brings to the table, and not on all the rest of the Sox players who have failed at the plate on such a consistent basis this year.

As for pathetically bad losing seasons, this year isn't over yet. Who knows, can Walker and they might turn things around a bit.