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View Full Version : Who should be fired after tonight's debacle?


A. Cavatica
05-14-2010, 09:07 PM
I say start with Ozzie and Walk, but only because I think that firing Kenny AND Ozzie AND Walk would create total chaos.

Marqhead
05-14-2010, 09:10 PM
No one is getting fired.

CLR01
05-14-2010, 09:12 PM
Nobody. Things are peachy on the Southside. Just some cold weather is all.

sox1970
05-14-2010, 09:13 PM
No one is getting fired.

That wasn't the question.

You're right, but the answer is the lot of them.

Tragg
05-14-2010, 09:14 PM
This team is the team Ozzie wanted.
And he's so strident in his theories that he exacerbates its weaknesses by doing things like putting Vizquel at DH.
But Williams is the one who actually listened to Ozzie's nonsensical ideas of offense, and abided by his awful talent evaluation. Williams is the one who spent money on stiffs instead of signing real hitters.
Williams hasn't made a real plus trade in 3 years.

They both need to go for tearing down a world championship team.

Walker - what's he supposed to do, teach discipline to Ozzie's swing-at-everything swatters? He'd be a pure scapegoat to protect Ozzie Guillen.

cbrownson13
05-14-2010, 09:24 PM
This team is the team Ozzie wanted.
And he's so strident in his theories that he exacerbates its weaknesses by doing things like putting Vizquel at DH.
But Williams is the one who actually listened to Ozzie's nonsensical ideas of offense, and abided by his awful talent evaluation. Williams is the one who spent money on stiffs instead of signing real hitters.
Williams hasn't made a real plus trade in 3 years.

They both need to go for tearing down a world championship team.

Walker - what's he supposed to do, teach discipline to Ozzie's swing-at-everything swatters? He'd be a pure scapegoat to protect Ozzie Guillen.

Tearing down a championship team? Are you saying the 2005 team would contend for a World Series if still in tact to this day? Should we bring back Iguchi? Rowand? Everett?

Dick Allen
05-14-2010, 09:28 PM
When JR sees an empty park, people will be fired. I say fire them all.

Standing Ovation
05-14-2010, 09:31 PM
Our ****ing DH tonight is 43 years old, with a BA of .147 and batting 9th! How on earth is this even possible? We might as well let our pitchers ****ing hit, and get them ready for interleague play.

Marqhead
05-14-2010, 09:31 PM
Alright, I and many other people think Ozzie should be fired.

Who is going to replace him?

SephClone89
05-14-2010, 09:31 PM
Tearing down a championship team? Are you saying the 2005 team would contend for a World Series if still in tact to this day? Should we bring back Iguchi? Rowand? Everett?

Well said.

PhillipsBubba
05-14-2010, 09:32 PM
It's time for Ozzie to go. He's worn out his welcome with the fans and in the clubhouse (IMHO).

I have every confidence in Kenny Williams. Bringing Peavy in was a fabulous move. I supported the Teahen trade but that turned to ****!

Now he really needs to be bold and clean house.

http://www.logisticsit.com/absolutenm/articlefiles/4238-truck-empty-1-250.jpg

Rikirk
05-14-2010, 09:33 PM
Debacle?

Its just another tune on the same record.

Rikirk
05-14-2010, 09:36 PM
Why do I have a song swimming in my head...

*Wake me up when September ends.*

harwar
05-14-2010, 09:39 PM
Ken Williams and Ozzie Guillen are not going anywhere

soxinem1
05-14-2010, 09:42 PM
Tearing down a championship team? Are you saying the 2005 team would contend for a World Series if still in tact to this day? Should we bring back Iguchi? Rowand? Everett?

KW wasn't happy with it. He knew that while everything fell into place for them in 2005, no way they would count on a repeat with the same type of team.

All the which makes it more curious why he let his field manager veto Thome returning, and why he himself did not make more of an effort to bolster the lineup.

You can give him credit for Jones, but remember, he was announced and counted on nothing more than a fourth OF.

Viva Medias B's
05-14-2010, 09:50 PM
You're overreacting in the heat of another frustrating loss.

Marqhead
05-14-2010, 09:52 PM
You're overreacting in the heat of another frustrating loss.

What does that make, 15-16 frustrating losses out of 35 games?

Frater Perdurabo
05-14-2010, 09:54 PM
Alright, I and many other people think Ozzie should be fired.

Who is going to replace him?

Manager: Jeff Torborg (would play the best fielders to back up our pitching)
Bench Coach: Trey Hillman (unsuccessful manager with lousy team but an excellent teacher)
Hitting coach: Von Joshua as hitting coach (good with young hitters)

I would keep Cooper and Baines for sure. I would let Torborg bring in his own bullpen and 3B coach if he wanted to replace Nieves and/or Cox.

sox1970
05-14-2010, 09:57 PM
Manager: Jeff Torborg (would play the best fielders to back up our pitching)
Bench Coach: Trey Hillman (unsuccessful manager with lousy team but an excellent teacher)
Hitting coach: Von Joshua as hitting coach (good with young hitters)

I would keep Cooper and Baines for sure. I would let Torborg bring in his own bullpen and 3B coach if he wanted to replace Nieves and/or Cox.

I liked Torborg in 1990, but it's 20 years later. He's gotta be pushing 70 now.

Baines for sure? What exactly does he do?

Marqhead
05-14-2010, 09:57 PM
Manager: Jeff Torborg (would play the best fielders to back up our pitching)
Bench Coach: Trey Hillman (unsuccessful manager with lousy team but an excellent teacher)
Hitting coach: Von Joshua as hitting coach (good with young hitters)

I would keep Cooper and Baines for sure. I would let Torborg bring in his own bullpen and 3B coach if he wanted to replace Nieves and/or Cox.

I appreciate the thought, but Torborg has a pretty terrible track record, why him?

bunty_doghunter
05-14-2010, 10:00 PM
...I think that firing Kenny AND Ozzie AND Walk would create total chaos.
Is that worse than the way it is now?

Frater Perdurabo
05-14-2010, 10:06 PM
I appreciate the thought, but Torborg has a pretty terrible track record, why him?

The way things are going, the Sox won't allocate the budget to bring back Paulie or AJ next year. So they will increasingly have to rely on young position players. Torborg is good with young position players. Coupled with solid teachers like Hillman and Joshua, he could get the most out of Beckham, Quentin, Alexei (who isn't young but is still kind of new to the U.S.), and eventually Flowers, Viciedo, Morel and Danks.

The criticism is that he worked his starting pitchers too hard in Florida. Cooper wouldn't let him do that.

canOcorn
05-14-2010, 10:10 PM
:fireozzie:

A. Cavatica
05-14-2010, 10:11 PM
You're overreacting in the heat of another frustrating loss.

Well, one hour after posting this poll, 20 of 29 voters want Walker fired, and 20 of 29 voters want Ozzie fired.

Only 9 of 29 voters want Kenny fired, but that number's bound to go up if he doesn't bend to the will of the people.

PhillipsBubba
05-14-2010, 10:23 PM
Alright, I and many other people think Ozzie should be fired.

Who is going to replace him?

How about Lou Piniella after the Cubs fire him?

Marqhead
05-14-2010, 10:33 PM
:fireozzie:

It would be terrific if you could work this graphic into every post you make from here on out.

A. Cavatica
05-14-2010, 10:34 PM
It would be terrific if you could work this graphic into every post you make from here on out.

It would be terrific if we all worked this graphic into our signatures.

A. Cavatica
05-14-2010, 10:40 PM
Done.

sox1970
05-14-2010, 10:44 PM
If the Sox get swept in KC and the offense doesn't do anything, I think Walker is fired next Tuesday when they get home from Detroit.

Marqhead
05-14-2010, 10:45 PM
Here goes.......

Frontman
05-14-2010, 10:47 PM
Walker will be fired before Ozzie. As many have stated, hitting coaches are a dime a dozen. It will be a symbolic "calm the masses" firing; then after the season ends, they *might* show Ozzie the door.

Personally, I don't see how firing Ozzie or Kenny will help this season.

A. Cavatica
05-14-2010, 10:50 PM
Walker will be fired before Ozzie. As many have stated, hitting coaches are a dime a dozen. It will be a symbolic "calm the masses" firing; then after the season ends, they *might* show Ozzie the door.

Personally, I don't see how firing Ozzie or Kenny will help this season.

It won't; the season's lost. It's next season we have to protect.

Ozzie should've been fired after he mismanaged the team out of playoff contention in 2006. But the ink on the World Series merchandise was still fresh.

Then he should've been fired after 2007, but he still had his apologists.

Anyone who thinks this is an overreaction to a slow start in 2010 is delusional.

doublem23
05-14-2010, 11:00 PM
I've been on the Fire Walker bandwagon for a while now, so that's never gonna change.

Not time to fire Ozzie yet. Like I've said, this disaster is his doing, make him sit front and center for all of it. Chain his ass to the bench to make sure he can't get away. Fire him at the end of the season. If we fire him now, he gets to sit and relax at his home in Miami while we have to endure this horrible team. At least fire him at the end of the season.

I don't think anybody has ever done something so bad that they deserve to take over this terrible team.

Marqhead
05-14-2010, 11:07 PM
Someone make a fire Walker graphic for me to add to my sig. I'm too lazy/not good at photoshop.

JB98
05-14-2010, 11:15 PM
I've been on the "Fire Walker" bandwagon for a long time. I think he should be fired, but I believe this team will still suck even if he is let go.

There is a talent problem here, in addition to a coaching/managing problem.

Brian26
05-14-2010, 11:19 PM
Can we fire Teahen?

Marqhead
05-14-2010, 11:22 PM
Can we fire Teahen?

I'm on that bandwagon. Someone make another graphic.

3 year extensions FTW!

captain54
05-14-2010, 11:27 PM
It's funny how you don't hear that much anymore from the "no point in firing Walker, he's not the problem" crowd, (like Ranger and others) these days.

As I've said all along, it could be very well be true that the hitting coach won't matter. That being said, it wouldn't hurt to try a fresh approach. It couldn't get any worse. If it's a way to show the fans that changes are a comin' and Walker is the sacrificial lamb...so be it. It's an occupational hazard. You can't expect to be the hitting coach of a MLB team and have horrendous offense numbers going on the second year in a row without some repercussions.

A. Cavatica
05-14-2010, 11:27 PM
Can we fire Teahen?

No, but you can fire the guy that traded for him and signed him to an extension.

JB98
05-14-2010, 11:30 PM
It's funny how you don't hear that much anymore from the "no point in firing Walker, he's not the problem" crowd, (like Ranger and others) these days.

As I've said all along, it could be very well be true that the hitting coach won't matter. That being said, it wouldn't hurt to try a fresh approach. It couldn't get any worse. If it's a way to show the fans that changes are a comin' and Walker is the sacrificial lamb...so be it. It's an occupational hazard. You can't expect to be the hitting coach of a MLB team and have horrendous offense numbers going on the second year in a row without some repercussions.

True. I want Walker gone mostly because I'm tired of watching young hitters regress.

Teahen, Vizquel, Pierre, Kotsay, the suckage of these mediocre veterans, that's not Walker's fault. Those guys just don't have that much talent.

When younger players like Quentin, Beckham and Ramirez have struggles, that's when you need a hitting coach. What is he doing to help these guys? The holes just keep getting deeper and deeper for them.

jabrch
05-14-2010, 11:50 PM
If I was going to fire someone, I'd fire them all.

russ99
05-15-2010, 12:11 AM
This team is the team Ozzie wanted.
And he's so strident in his theories that he exacerbates its weaknesses by doing things like putting Vizquel at DH.
But Williams is the one who actually listened to Ozzie's nonsensical ideas of offense, and abided by his awful talent evaluation. Williams is the one who spent money on stiffs instead of signing real hitters.
Williams hasn't made a real plus trade in 3 years.

They both need to go for tearing down a world championship team.

Walker - what's he supposed to do, teach discipline to Ozzie's swing-at-everything swatters? He'd be a pure scapegoat to protect Ozzie Guillen.

Really? You're going to continue to push that tired idea to death?

1. Ozzie didn't make personnel decisions
2. Vizquel at DH is one of many attempts to shuffle the deck, nothing's working. If guys were hitting Vizquel would play once a week at SS.
3. Kenny had a budget, which is why we traded for Teahen, signed Jones and traded for Pierre instead of signing guys like Figgins, Johnson, Matsui and Damon.

But I guess it's easier to use Ozzie as a scapegoat and claim that "this is the offense he wanted", when it's obvious he didn't. All he wanted was more flexibility at DH and a more athletic team. Kenny was the one who made the personnel decisions, and it was a front office philosophy driven by a low budget than anything Ozzie "ordered".

But how bad does it have to get before Walker's fired? To me our offense is worse than Seattle's when they fired their hitting coach.

VMSNS
05-15-2010, 12:51 AM
It's funny how you don't hear that much anymore from the "no point in firing Walker, he's not the problem" crowd, (like Ranger and others) these days.

As I've said all along, it could be very well be true that the hitting coach won't matter. That being said, it wouldn't hurt to try a fresh approach. It couldn't get any worse. If it's a way to show the fans that changes are a comin' and Walker is the sacrificial lamb...so be it. It's an occupational hazard. You can't expect to be the hitting coach of a MLB team and have horrendous offense numbers going on the second year in a row without some repercussions.

Exactly. Walker may or may not be a good hitting coach, but it's incredibly obvious that the work he is doing is not making an impact on this team. He either isn't trying (which I doubt), or he just can't get through to these guys. He might be a great hitting coach, but he isn't effective with this group of players.

Sometimes all you need is a new approach, or someone else to say something different. As someone who is a music major at university, I can honestly say that this type of thing happens all the time with teachers and performers. For years, I had always struggled with improvising on my instrument. Sure, I could do it, but I was never very good at, and I had several teachers try and teach it to me. When I got to college, I got a new teacher who basically said all the same things my other teachers were saying, but he said it in a different way. Sure as ****, something clicked in my head, and I just "got it".

Walker needs to go at the very least to show that the organization won't put up with this bull**** offense anymore. I honestly fail to see how anyone can defend him at this point.

captain54
05-15-2010, 01:13 AM
Kenny was the one who made the personnel decisions, and it was a front office philosophy driven by a low budget than anything Ozzie "ordered".

.

The White Sox have the fourth highest payroll in the AL

If KW can't make the right decisions with this budget, how's he gonna put together a team with a markedly lower payroll, which is probably what's gonna happen in 2011? YIKES!

Noneck
05-15-2010, 01:30 AM
The White Sox have the fourth highest payroll in the AL

If KW can't make the right decisions with this budget, how's he gonna put together a team with a markedly lower payroll, which is probably what's gonna happen in 2011? YIKES!

The scary thing about next year is that possibly coming off a under 2m attendance year and lower season ticket sales for next year, Peavy, Buehrle and Rios may take up close to 1/2 of total monies allotted for 2011 salary.

thomas35forever
05-15-2010, 01:49 AM
Nobody. Keep everyone for all I care. I see no hope for this season, so why make any changes now? After it's over, we'll see what happens. I really don't feel like calling for anyone's head at the moment.

palehozenychicty
05-15-2010, 07:58 AM
Somebody said that if the Sox don't win a game this weekend in KC nor score much, then Walker will be gone. I see that happening. By this point in May, you have enough of a sample size but time to make a move which impacts your season. He's not the whole problem, but hardly the solution.

This team needs serious roster upgrades, especially the left side of that infield. Both Teahen and Ramirez are pitiful.

A. Cavatica
05-15-2010, 08:09 PM
With 74 votes in, 72% want Walker fired. 58% want Ozzie fired. And 30% want Kenny fired.

This is the first time I've seen a majority want Ozzie fired. I hope the Sox take note.

Frontman
05-15-2010, 08:12 PM
With 74 votes in, 72% want Walker fired. 58% want Ozzie fired. And 30% want Kenny fired.

This is the first time I've seen a majority want Ozzie fired. I hope the Sox take note.

In what sense is 58% more than 72%? Granted, you add up all 3 you have 160%. Should be 160 proof for whatever we need to be drinking to survive this mess of baseball......

soltrain21
05-15-2010, 08:15 PM
You fire Walker now and let Ozzie finish out the year. If it doesn't get turned around than Ozzie should be out at the end of the season.

voodoochile
05-15-2010, 08:18 PM
In what sense is 58% more than 72%? Granted, you add up all 3 you have 160%. Should be 160 proof for whatever we need to be drinking to survive this mess of baseball......

It's not, but it's still a majority.

I'm guessing that multiple votes are allowed in the poll and thus some people are voting for both Ozzie and Walker.

Edit: No, I see it's not a multiple choice poll, but there are multiple options for all of the people. If you add up the various totals the percentages align.

Next time try a multiple choice poll and just list single names you'll get a cleaner answer.

JB98
05-15-2010, 08:18 PM
You fire Walker now and let Ozzie finish out the year. If it doesn't get turned around than Ozzie should be out at the end of the season.

Agreed. If I have to sit here and watch this nonsense, then Ozzie should have to watch it, too.

Well, actually I don't have to watch it. As the summer progresses, I'll probably move on to other things. These clowns won't ruin my summer.

WhiteSox5187
05-15-2010, 08:23 PM
Agreed. If I have to sit here and watch this nonsense, then Ozzie should have to watch it, too.

Well, actually I don't have to watch it. As the summer progresses, I'll probably move on to other things. These clowns won't ruin my summer.

Lucky you. They usually dictate how my summer goes.

And if a hitting coach only does what the Walker apologist suggest, then ****, why not make ME a hitting coach. I will work for considerably less than what Walker is making.

peelwonder
05-15-2010, 08:23 PM
Really? You're going to continue to push that tired idea to death?

1. Ozzie didn't make personnel decisions
2. Vizquel at DH is one of many attempts to shuffle the deck, nothing's working. If guys were hitting Vizquel would play once a week at SS.
3. Kenny had a budget, which is why we traded for Teahen, signed Jones and traded for Pierre instead of signing guys like Figgins, Johnson, Matsui and Damon.

But I guess it's easier to use Ozzie as a scapegoat and claim that "this is the offense he wanted", when it's obvious he didn't. All he wanted was more flexibility at DH and a more athletic team. Kenny was the one who made the personnel decisions, and it was a front office philosophy driven by a low budget than anything Ozzie "ordered".

But how bad does it have to get before Walker's fired? To me our offense is worse than Seattle's when they fired their hitting coach.


Dude...your insane Ozzie love is over the top. In your eyes he can do no wrong...he's just trying to manage what he has....Get a clue...he's not that good!

Rohan
05-15-2010, 10:19 PM
Dude...your insane Ozzie love is over the top. In your eyes he can do no wrong...he's just trying to manage what he has....Get a clue...he's not that good!

:rolleyes:

Please quit being ridiculous. Russ is making absolutely reasonable and applicable points.