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Dub25
05-12-2010, 11:03 PM
Where are my H-F people at? John Ely had another nice outing last night. He got recalled for Charlie Haeger and I'm not sure why they kept Haeger over Ely to begin with. Unless Haeger is out of options but Haeger has been bad.

I'm not saying it now just because but I said it when the trade happened. Kenny gave up 2 nice looking arms for a black version of Scotty Pods. Before I get attacked I only said the black version because that is the only difference I can think of. Both are left handed and fast and can't throw very well.

Do you think Kenny parted with Ely because he is not a power pitcher which he seems to love even though Buehrle is a location guy and Danks who is becoming the number 1 is the same?

doublem23
05-12-2010, 11:34 PM
Well... At least Gio got his ass roughed up against Texas.

Dub25
05-19-2010, 12:48 AM
Once again... pretty solid last night. Thanks Kenny... I know how you hate soft tossers in favor of flame throwers.

DumpJerry
05-19-2010, 07:55 AM
Once again... pretty solid last night. Thanks Kenny... I know how you hate soft tossers in favor of flame throwers.
Yeah, Mark Buehrle is often confused with Sandy Koufax.......

cws05champ
05-19-2010, 09:11 AM
He gave up Ely because we have a solid starting 5 with Torres and Hudson in the minors ahead of Ely. He would not have been on the mound for the Sox this year.

Not saying it was good to give up him and Link for Pierre, but I can see why he did.

asindc
05-19-2010, 09:29 AM
Where are my H-F people at? John Ely had another nice outing last night. He got recalled for Charlie Haeger and I'm not sure why they kept Haeger over Ely to begin with. Unless Haeger is out of options but Haeger has been bad.

I'm not saying it now just because but I said it when the trade happened. Kenny gave up 2 nice looking arms for a black version of Scotty Pods. Before I get attacked I only said the black version because that is the only difference I can think of. Both are left handed and fast and can't throw very well.

Do you think Kenny parted with Ely because he is not a power pitcher which he seems to love even though Buehrle is a location guy and Danks who is becoming the number 1 is the same?

Pierre is four years younger, less injury prone, more consistent, and a better defender.

canOcorn
05-19-2010, 09:50 AM
Pierre is four years younger, less injury prone, more consistent, and a better defender.

Pods is cheaper, has more power, steals bases at a better rate and nobody in baseball has a worse arm than Pierre. I'd say they're about as equal as you can get, but we had to pay more salary and give up two prospects to acquire Pierre. :(:

asindc
05-19-2010, 10:07 AM
Pods is cheaper, has more power, steals bases at a better rate and nobody in baseball has a worse arm than Pierre. I'd say they're about as equal as you can get, but we had to pay more salary and give up two prospects to acquire Pierre. :(:

Pods was not cheaper, and he could not dream of making some of the plays Pierre has so far in LF. For instance, if Pods was in LF for that Sunday home game against the Twinkees when Thome hit a double to the gap, I am quite certain he would not have made that play. Pods takes terrible routes to the ball and rarely, if ever, makes a difficult play. Their arms are about equal. For me, that means the sum total of Pierre's defense outweighs Pods.' By the way, there is little difference between a 68% SB rate and a 67% SB rate.

If you think KW gave up too much to get Pierre, that's understandable, even if I don't agree. For the record, I'm on the fence about it and it has nothing to do with Pierre's slow start, or the Sox's decision to not re-sign Pods. Speaking of which, those things seem to be influencing your assessment of the Pierre deal.


Back on topic: If Ely turns out to be a valuable player, he will be the exception rather than the rule among minor leaguers that KW has traded.

canOcorn
05-19-2010, 10:24 AM
Pods was not cheaper

He most certainly is making fewer dollars than the Sox are paying Pierre. The Sox are on the hook with JP for $3M this year and $5M next year. Pods is getting $1.65M this year and the Royals hold a $2M club option for next year with a $100K buyout.

If you think KW gave up too much to get Pierre, that's understandable, even if I don't agree. For the record, I'm on the fence about it and it has nothing to do with Pierre's slow start, or the Sox's decision to not re-sign Pods. Speaking of which, those things seem to be influencing your assessment of the Pierre deal.


Back on topic: If Ely turns out to be a valuable player, he will be the exception rather than the rule among minor leaguers that KW has traded.I really don't care that much that we have Pierre over Pods, strictly from a performance level, but it's the fact we're paying significantly more for Pierre and we had to give up two prospects too. They might never turn out to be much, but were valuable chips that could have been used to acquire other talent.

asindc
05-19-2010, 10:37 AM
He most certainly is making fewer dollars than the Sox are paying Pierre. The Sox are on the hook with JP for $3M this year and $5M next year. Pods is getting $1.65M this year and the Royals hold a $2M club option for next year with a $100K buyout.

I really don't care that much that we have Pierre over Pods, strictly from a performance level, but it's the fact we're paying significantly more for Pierre and we had to give up two prospects too. They might never turn out to be much, but were valuable chips that could have been used to acquire other talent.

Fair enough. I just don't think Pods was realistic in his initial offer to the Sox, and apparently at least KC agreed with that. I think KW preferred to sign Pods rather than trade assets to acquire his replacement, but Pods forced his hand by asking for too much. Did KW give up too much to get his replacement? Probably, though neither player is projected to do much. My sense is that they were added in the deal to allow LAD management to save face over having to send so much money to the Sox with Pierre.

34 Inch Stick
05-19-2010, 03:57 PM
He most certainly is making fewer dollars than the Sox are paying Pierre. The Sox are on the hook with JP for $3M this year and $5M next year. Pods is getting $1.65M this year and the Royals hold a $2M club option for next year with a $100K buyout. were valuable chips that could have been used to acquire other talent.

You have to remember though, at the time of the Pierre acquisition, Pods was holding out for a multi year contract at $7 million per year. It's crazy but true.

voodoochile
05-19-2010, 04:06 PM
Fair enough. I just don't think Pods was realistic in his initial offer to the Sox, and apparently at least KC agreed with that. I think KW preferred to sign Pods rather than trade assets to acquire his replacement, but Pods forced his hand by asking for too much. Did KW give up too much to get his replacement? Probably, though neither player is projected to do much. My sense is that they were added in the deal to allow LAD management to save face over having to send so much money to the Sox with Pierre.

ding ding ding...

BadBobbyJenks
05-19-2010, 04:14 PM
Holy ****ing sample size batman!

balke
05-19-2010, 04:37 PM
I'm still upset the sox lost Jeremy Reed. I heard he's a lead pipe lock for the hall of fame.

Tragg
05-19-2010, 10:34 PM
He gave up Ely because we have a solid starting 5 with Torres and Hudson in the minors ahead of Ely. He would not have been on the mound for the Sox this year.

Not saying it was good to give up him and Link for Pierre, but I can see why he did.
I don't see why he had to give up 2 viable pitchers for Juan Pierre They were dying to unload him.
If we had been the team peddling Pierre, we'd have gotten nothing but junk. See Swisher, who was far more valuable than juan pierre.
They had Podsednik for free; Ryan Sweeney is producing more than either one of them, but brilliant Oz picked Jerry Owens and banished Sweeney

This stuff adds up...casting aside talent and consistently giving more than you receive is another reason why we have so little young talent in this organization.

NLaloosh
05-19-2010, 11:48 PM
At the time of the Pierre trade I posted that not only did I think that the Sox are paying too much of Pierre's contract but I can't believe that they gave up two decent pitching prospects in addition.

I was roundly criticized because everyone said that these two guys would surely never be of any use in the big leagues.

PalehosePlanet
05-19-2010, 11:56 PM
At the time of the Pierre trade I posted that not only did I think that the Sox are paying too much of Pierre's contract but I can't believe that they gave up two decent pitching prospects in addition.

I was roundly criticized because everyone said that these two guys would surely never be of any use in the big leagues.

He still might not be useful in the long run. I know we live in the here and now, but holy ****, we're talking about three starts.

It speaks more of the Dodgers desperation for starting pitching (Charlie Haeger started a few games for them too) than anything else.

Dub25
05-20-2010, 12:00 AM
At the time of the Pierre trade I posted that not only did I think that the Sox are paying too much of Pierre's contract but I can't believe that they gave up two decent pitching prospects in addition.

I was roundly criticized because everyone said that these two guys would surely never be of any use in the big leagues.

I don't think I posted anything but I was upset about the trade as well... And not because a H-F guy was involved but because Ely tore it up in the minors. And Link was suppose to be good to. If Pierre was so good then why did he hardly play in L.A. other than a Manny 50 game suspension?

In the meantime, ELY gets called up and is 2-1 and has a 80+ walk free streak.

asindc
05-20-2010, 10:06 AM
I don't think I posted anything but I was upset about the trade as well... And not because a H-F guy was involved but because Ely tore it up in the minors. And Link was suppose to be good to. If Pierre was so good then why did he hardly play in L.A. other than a Manny 50 game suspension?

In the meantime, ELY gets called up and is 2-1 and has a 80+ walk free streak.

I'm not replying to disagree with your general point, but I just want to respond to the bolded part: Pierre hardly played the last couple of years in LA because Ramirez, Kemp, and Ethier are all better than him.

khan
05-20-2010, 11:41 AM
John Ely isn't likely to be a great pitcher, but he WAS an asset to the organization. This, in terms of him being MLB-ready depth where there is currently little [only Hudson and Torres for the pitching staff] and/or being a piece for a trade.

I'm guessing that had KW waited a bit longer, Pierre probably could've been had for less. But then, my speculation is that Ozzie HAD TO HAVE one of "his guys" on "his roster."

Dub25
05-20-2010, 10:59 PM
John Ely isn't likely to be a great pitcher, but he WAS an asset to the organization. This, in terms of him being MLB-ready depth where there is currently little [only Hudson and Torres for the pitching staff] and/or being a piece for a trade.

I'm guessing that had KW waited a bit longer, Pierre probably could've been had for less. But then, my speculation is that Ozzie HAD TO HAVE one of "his guys" on "his roster."

Maybe... maybe not. He throws as hard as Buehrle but has a wicked change and curve. My only fear for him is they figure him out like Shingo. Slow fastball but good slow stuff.

NLaloosh
05-21-2010, 04:55 AM
I know that it's old news but my point on the trade at the time, and still is, is that the Sox are still paying Pierre a lot of money (more than he's worth) for next year ( $5.5 mil.) so why did they give up two decent pitching prospects in addition.

Was there some other team that was going to take Juan Pierre off LA's hands and pay $ 9 mil. of the contract owed ? I don't think so.

It's one thing to pay the guy far more than he's worth but then to give up these two guys that had some value is ridiculous.

And, once again, signing Pods would have cost no players. I don't care what anyone says about Pods agent misreading the market, KW mishandled the whole Pods/Pierre deal, too.

WhiteSox5187
05-21-2010, 07:17 AM
I don't see why he had to give up 2 viable pitchers for Juan Pierre They were dying to unload him.
If we had been the team peddling Pierre, we'd have gotten nothing but junk. See Swisher, who was far more valuable than juan pierre.
They had Podsednik for free; Ryan Sweeney is producing more than either one of them, but brilliant Oz picked Jerry Owens and banished Sweeney

This stuff adds up...casting aside talent and consistently giving more than you receive is another reason why we have so little young talent in this organization.

Why does Kenny get a free pass in the Sweeney debacle? Kenny was pretty high on Jerry Owens too and then traded Sweeney.

GoSox2K3
05-21-2010, 11:55 AM
He most certainly is making fewer dollars than the Sox are paying Pierre. The Sox are on the hook with JP for $3M this year and $5M next year. Pods is getting $1.65M this year and the Royals hold a $2M club option for next year with a $100K buyout.

I really don't care that much that we have Pierre over Pods, strictly from a performance level, but it's the fact we're paying significantly more for Pierre and we had to give up two prospects too. They might never turn out to be much, but were valuable chips that could have been used to acquire other talent.

Yeah, but Pods asked for more money!

What did you expect KW to do? Be patient, not take it personally, be a good negotiator, and sign Pods at his market rate when he doesn't find anything better?

Ha!!!! That's for wusses. It's better to get pissed off at Podsednik's (poor) business decision and stick it to him by trading a way a decent pitching prospect, committing $8 million to Pierre ($3 mil. this year/$5 mil next), and then telling Sox fans there's no money left for a legitmate hitter for that hole in our lineup. Chuck Norris all the way, baby! Nobody messes with Kenny!

Tragg
05-21-2010, 12:36 PM
Why does Kenny get a free pass in the Sweeney debacle? Kenny was pretty high on Jerry Owens too and then traded Sweeney.
He shouldn't get a pass. It was a major blunder by Williams
You're right - Williams makes the decisions on these things and pulls the trigger.

NLaloosh
05-21-2010, 12:48 PM
Yeah, but Pods asked for more money!

What did you expect KW to do? Be patient, not take it personally, be a good negotiator, and sign Pods at his market rate when he doesn't find anything better?

Ha!!!! That's for wusses. It's better to get pissed off at Podsednik's (poor) business decision and stick it to him by trading a way a decent pitching prospect, committing $8 million to Pierre ($3 mil. this year/$5 mil next), and then telling Sox fans there's no money left for a legitmate hitter for that hole in our lineup. Chuck Norris all the way, baby! Nobody messes with Kenny!

Bingo! Only, the Sox are paying $ 9 mil. for Pierre over 2 years.

BadBobbyJenks
05-27-2010, 04:28 PM
Ely has been dealing today at Wrigley, I just picked it up a couple of innings ago, but 2 hits in 7 innings with only 85 pitches.

Hitmen77
05-27-2010, 04:58 PM
Ely has been dealing today at Wrigley, I just picked it up a couple of innings ago, but 2 hits in 7 innings with only 85 pitches.

Meh, we didn't need him. He's destined to fail as a big leaguer anyway.

Craig Grebeck
05-27-2010, 05:41 PM
Through almost 40 innings, Ely seems to have a little Andy Sonnanstine in him. The Dodgers would be lucky if Ely put up a similar career arc. I doubt he'll be that effective, though.

Sargeant79
05-27-2010, 05:43 PM
I gotta admit...Ely has definitely done more at the major league level already than I thought he would.

Tragg
05-27-2010, 07:13 PM
I just can't believe that we gave a legitimate young ML pitcher for Juan Pierre. My goodness.
Pierre is B/B- prospect territory at best.

khan
05-27-2010, 07:44 PM
I just can't believe that we gave a legitimate young ML pitcher for Juan Pierre. My goodness.
Pierre is B/B- prospect territory at best.

Why be surprised? KW has given away value, and gotten **** in return lately.

Part of the reason that the minor league system sucks is that KW has traded everything away that wasn't bolted down. The other part is that he hasn't bothered to get anything of value in trade in years.

voodoochile
05-27-2010, 08:06 PM
I just can't believe that we gave a legitimate young ML pitcher for Juan Pierre. My goodness.
Pierre is B/B- prospect territory at best.

Wasn't Ely well down the list of Sox prospects? Hudson and Torres were both in front of him and the Sox have 4 starters already on the Major League roster wrapped up through 2012.

Now maybe the Sox misjudged Ely's talent, but from their perspective they didn't give away much. I don't recall anyone really screaming that Ely was too much to give away when the Sox acquired Pierre, but perhaps I am wrong and you folks aren't simply using 20/20 hindsight to dog on KW. Oh and I'd definitely like to see how he finishes the year and then continues before assuming he's going to continue his run of success. Lots of players have a good month or two and never go on to amount to anything.

TDog
05-27-2010, 08:21 PM
Wasn't Ely well down the list of Sox prospects? Hudson and Torres were both in front of him and the Sox have 4 starters already on the Major League roster wrapped up through 2012.

Now maybe the Sox misjudged Ely's talent, but from their perspective they didn't give away much. I don't recall anyone really screaming that Ely was too much to give away when the Sox acquired Pierre, but perhaps I am wrong and you folks aren't simply using 20/20 hindsight to dog on KW. Oh and I'd definitely like to see how he finishes the year and then continues before assuming he's going to continue his run of success. Lots of players have a good month or two and never go on to amount to anything.

If the White Sox misjudged Ely's talent, so did Baseball America and just about everyone else, perhaps even the Dodgers who might have been just lucky in acquiring him -- or maybe not, a minor league pitcher not being much to get back for Juan Pierre. I wonder how Dodger fans felt about the deal when it was made.

soxinem1
05-27-2010, 09:07 PM
Wasn't Ely well down the list of Sox prospects? Hudson and Torres were both in front of him and the Sox have 4 starters already on the Major League roster wrapped up through 2012.

Now maybe the Sox misjudged Ely's talent, but from their perspective they didn't give away much. I don't recall anyone really screaming that Ely was too much to give away when the Sox acquired Pierre, but perhaps I am wrong and you folks aren't simply using 20/20 hindsight to dog on KW. Oh and I'd definitely like to see how he finishes the year and then continues before assuming he's going to continue his run of success. Lots of players have a good month or two and never go on to amount to anything.

Hindsight is 20/20. Just like I am sure HOU would not have left Johan Santana unprotected for MIN to grab him in a Rule 5 draft if they knew what a star he would be.

LAD is also picking up a large percentage of Pierre's salary, so you can't expect to make a trade like that and expect the other team to take nothing in return.

Armchair GM's and managers go 162-0, have no one with less than 16 wins on the pitching staff, never blow leads, and have six guys tied for the triple crown in their lineup.............

And none of them even manage in the pros.

Dub25
05-28-2010, 11:19 PM
Wasn't Ely well down the list of Sox prospects? Hudson and Torres were both in front of him and the Sox have 4 starters already on the Major League roster wrapped up through 2012.

Now maybe the Sox misjudged Ely's talent, but from their perspective they didn't give away much. I don't recall anyone really screaming that Ely was too much to give away when the Sox acquired Pierre, but perhaps I am wrong and you folks aren't simply using 20/20 hindsight to dog on KW. Oh and I'd definitely like to see how he finishes the year and then continues before assuming he's going to continue his run of success. Lots of players have a good month or two and never go on to amount to anything.


Voodoo... I guess I can't prove it but like I said before, I did not like the Pierre trade when it happened. Call me a homer because I am a H-F guy but I really liked Ely along with Link. I mean, Ely won 14 games in the minors. I think that is worth some merit. They did use a 3rd round pick to get him and he excelled at every level. From what I understand, Kenny gave the Dodgers a list of minor league players to choose from for Pierre. To me, I think Pierre could've been had for less. On the Dodgers he was a 4th outfielder making too much money and I think they were looking to unload his salary.

NLaloosh
05-29-2010, 04:41 AM
The very best part of John Ely is that he grew up in Harvey loving the White Sox and hating the flubs. It's hard to give away a guy like that.

I wonder what effect that would have on his White Sox career ? I wonder why the Sox never picked up Ron Mahay for the same reason ? Especially since he's been better than most lefties the Sox have had throughout his career.

Dub25
06-17-2010, 12:12 AM
The very best part of John Ely is that he grew up in Harvey loving the White Sox and hating the flubs. It's hard to give away a guy like that.

I wonder what effect that would have on his White Sox career ? I wonder why the Sox never picked up Ron Mahay for the same reason ? Especially since he's been better than most lefties the Sox have had throughout his career.

He didn't grow up in Harvey, he grew up in Homewood, he was born at Ingalls in Harvey. People across the country must think Harvey is awesome thanks to Ingalls Hospital. Garrett Jones on the Pirates was born there too but out of town markets must think he grew up there thanks to the announcers that don't know better.

Tragg
06-17-2010, 09:53 AM
Wasn't Ely well down the list of Sox prospects? Hudson and Torres were both in front of him and the Sox have 4 starters already on the Major League roster wrapped up through 2012.

Now maybe the Sox misjudged Ely's talent, but from their perspective they didn't give away much. I don't recall anyone really screaming that Ely was too much to give away when the Sox acquired Pierre, but perhaps I am wrong and you folks aren't simply using 20/20 hindsight to dog on KW. Oh and I'd definitely like to see how he finishes the year and then continues before assuming he's going to continue his run of success. Lots of players have a good month or two and never go on to amount to anything.
I have no idea what prospects are best. It's the Sox' scouts and KW's job. Results count. I do know that you don't trade anything close to a ML pitcher for Juan Piere.
I will also point out that we got ZERO prospects (no As, Bs or Cs) for Nick Swisher. Not one. We got organizational minor leaguers, a utility infielder who couldn't play defense and 1 AAAA pitcher who's still there. For Vazquez and Logan? One A and one C.
Results count. WE have a 100 Mill payroll, and can't afford a DH. A lot of reason for that is the failure to use and develop young, quality, minimum salary players.

pythons007
06-17-2010, 10:00 AM
Pods was not cheaper, and he could not dream of making some of the plays Pierre has so far in LF. For instance, if Pods was in LF for that Sunday home game against the Twinkees when Thome hit a double to the gap, I am quite certain he would not have made that play. Pods takes terrible routes to the ball and rarely, if ever, makes a difficult play. Their arms are about equal. For me, that means the sum total of Pierre's defense outweighs Pods.' By the way, there is little difference between a 68% SB rate and a 67% SB rate.

If you think KW gave up too much to get Pierre, that's understandable, even if I don't agree. For the record, I'm on the fence about it and it has nothing to do with Pierre's slow start, or the Sox's decision to not re-sign Pods. Speaking of which, those things seem to be influencing your assessment of the Pierre deal.


Back on topic: If Ely turns out to be a valuable player, he will be the exception rather than the rule among minor leaguers that KW has traded.

Something that doesn't get taken into consideration for SB rate is times picked off. Pods is terrible, see how many times he gets picked off. Not to mention he's not a very good base runner.

Pierre, is a lot better than Pods is.

balke
06-17-2010, 10:07 AM
I wanna root for this guy because he's from H-F but this thread irritates me. So I'm just going to point out that he's given up 4 runs through 5 in his last 2 games - and is yet to pitch against the same team twice. You wanna crown him - crown him. Prospects were needed to get Pierre. Deal with it.

TomBradley72
06-17-2010, 10:44 AM
I wanna root for this guy because he's from H-F but this thread irritates me. So I'm just going to point out that he's given up 4 runs through 5 in his last 2 games - and is yet to pitch against the same team twice. You wanna crown him - crown him. Prospects were needed to get Pierre. Deal with it.

I'm with you. I do think KW overpaid for Pierre (Dodgers were really backed into a corner), just like he overpaid for Thome when he was clearly just a DH, so of little value to Philadelphia..but Ely has had a total of 10 starts in a league and stadium that is MUCH more pitcher friendly than the American League/US Celular Field. Just look at Peavy and Vazquez as examples of guys that floorish in the NL..struggle in the AL.

mzh
06-17-2010, 01:59 PM
So far today, the great John Ely has given up 6 runs through 4 innings against a powerful Reds offense. So he ain't perfect :tongue:

DirtySox
06-17-2010, 02:10 PM
So far today, the great John Ely has given up 6 runs through 4 innings against a powerful Reds offense. So he ain't perfect :tongue:


While I'm not all that hung up on losing Ely, the Reds are top 5 in all baseball in most offensive categories. They are rather good so far.

DaveFeelsRight
06-17-2010, 02:18 PM
So far today, the great John Ely has given up 6 runs through 4 innings against a powerful Reds offense. So he ain't perfect :tongue:
the reds are you know, good.

palehozenychicty
06-17-2010, 03:12 PM
So far today, the great John Ely has given up 6 runs through 4 innings against a powerful Reds offense. So he ain't perfect :tongue:


Their offense is better than ours, although it's the National League.

kittle42
06-17-2010, 03:31 PM
Their offense is better than ours, although it's the National League.

Almost everyone's offense is better than ours, even in the International League.

doublem23
06-17-2010, 03:34 PM
Almost everyone's offense is better than ours, even in the International League.

Yeah, I don't think it's coincidence we're playing our best baseball now that we don't have to waste time with our plethora of crap DHs.

Dub25
06-18-2010, 11:55 PM
I wanna root for this guy because he's from H-F but this thread irritates me. So I'm just going to point out that he's given up 4 runs through 5 in his last 2 games - and is yet to pitch against the same team twice. You wanna crown him - crown him. Prospects were needed to get Pierre. Deal with it.

You got a good point. I can't deny that. And like a buddy of mine and myself said, let's see if he can adjust when they adjust to him. But I still don't like the trade. :D:

CLUBHOUSE KID
06-20-2010, 09:32 PM
John Ely is one of my bros good friends played ball at Miami together. I was at the LA/CHC game too bad LA didn't score!!!! 1-0 loss :( But I met his fam.

Ranger
06-20-2010, 09:46 PM
Pods is cheaper, has more power, steals bases at a better rate and nobody in baseball has a worse arm than Pierre. I'd say they're about as equal as you can get, but we had to pay more salary and give up two prospects to acquire Pierre. :(:

Better stolen base rate? By what, 0.5%? That's not significant. Pierre's still stolen 200 more bases in his career. The only thing Podsednik does better is hit the ball harder. He doesn't do anything else better than Pierre does and he's not nearly as smart of a player as Pierre is.

Pierre is four years younger, less injury prone, more consistent, and a better defender.

All of those.

Brian26
06-20-2010, 10:22 PM
Pierre is four years younger, less injury prone, more consistent, and a better defender.

Pods has never proven that he's not injury prone when he's signed long term. He wanted a long-term deal from the Sox. I have a hard time understanding how anyone can fault Kenny for this one.

TomBradley72
07-11-2010, 10:35 AM
Now 4-7, 4.63 ERA. for the season.

2-6, 5.17 ERA over his last 10 starts. 11 earned runs, 14 hits allowed over 5 innings in his last 2 starts, against the Marlins and Cubs,

What was KW thinking?

pearso66
07-11-2010, 10:53 AM
I've noticed a lot of people complaining about KW giving too much up in the Pierre trade, but getting too little in the Swisher/Vazquez trades. The reason he gave up "so much" to get Pierre is the Dodgers are paying most of his salary. So basically it was one of Link or Ely for Pierre, and the other for his salary. For the Swisher/Vazquez trades, I'm sure he was willing to receive less so he didn't have to pick up any salary. Unfortunately that's how it works. Maybe the people complaining was limited to one or two guys, but I just wanted to include my two cents.

cards press box
07-11-2010, 12:35 PM
Now 4-7, 4.63 ERA. for the season.

2-6, 5.17 ERA over his last 10 starts. 11 earned runs, 14 hits allowed over 5 innings in his last 2 starts, against the Marlins and Cubs,

What was KW thinking?

I'd like to see Phil Rogers address this point with the fervor with which he criticized the Pierre deal just weeks ago. I'm not going to hold my breath, though.

A. Cavatica
07-11-2010, 02:10 PM
I'd like to see Phil Rogers address this point with the fervor with which he criticized the Pierre deal just weeks ago. I'm not going to hold my breath, though.

Criticizing the Pierre deal because we gave up Ely was unfair. Criticizing it because we acquired Pierre was justifiable.

wilburaga
07-14-2010, 02:55 PM
Shocker - Ely's back in AAA. Replaced on the active roster by Link.

TomBradley72
07-14-2010, 07:26 PM
I'd like to see Phil Rogers address this point with the fervor with which he criticized the Pierre deal just weeks ago. I'm not going to hold my breath, though.

Same as he did with Brandon McCarthy...and still uses phrases like "gave up 6 prospects for Pierre and Peavy"....when Clayton Richard is the only one doing anything in the group..and none of the other 5 would make the current staff.

fram40
07-14-2010, 08:27 PM
Same as he did with Brandon McCarthy...and still uses phrases like "gave up 6 prospects for Pierre and Peavy"....when Clayton Richard is the only one doing anything in the group..and none of the other 5 would make the current staff.

how does Phil Rogers keep his job? has he ever been right?

BadBobbyJenks
07-14-2010, 11:36 PM
Holy ****ing sample size batman!

Have I ever told you how smart of a poster you are?

Dub25
07-15-2010, 12:16 AM
Now 4-7, 4.63 ERA. for the season.

2-6, 5.17 ERA over his last 10 starts. 11 earned runs, 14 hits allowed over 5 innings in his last 2 starts, against the Marlins and Cubs,

What was KW thinking?

The league has adjusted... lets see if Ely does the same... too save his butt.