PDA

View Full Version : Mariners Fire Hitting Coach


PhillipsBubba
05-09-2010, 06:20 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5175375

Rockabilly
05-09-2010, 06:23 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5175375

hopefully Walker will be the next hitting coach fire

Hitmen77
05-09-2010, 07:27 PM
Stupid Mariners. Don't they know that the hitting coach has no responsibility for the offense's performance?

TDog
05-09-2010, 07:59 PM
Cockrell was a scapegoat for problems that he didn't create and over which he had no control. The Mariners ridiculously were the consensus choice in the AL West. People expected way too much from the Mariners and this is an effort to tell the fans that changes are being made, when there aren't even any real changes considering they promoted someone from within.

There is a chance that the Alonzo Powell will be able to help Adam Moore where Cockrell couldn't because Powell knows him better, but having seen Moore catch, I don't believe he belongs in the majors on either offense or defense. The clubhouse is unhappy with the move.

dickallen15
05-09-2010, 08:03 PM
hopefully Walker will be the next hitting coach fire
The Sox are 8th in runs scored in the AL. They are 11th in runs given up and ERA with a vaunted pitching staff. Why would Walker go? How about Coop? Isn't it Coop's fault Jenks can't get through an inning?

johnnyg83
05-09-2010, 08:03 PM
Hitting coach has no responsibility for how team hits. He's not the one swinging the bat.

Lip Man 1
05-09-2010, 08:07 PM
What's very ironic is you change the names from the comments to those involving the Sox and you have the EXACT same scenario.

Seattle's G.M. basically admits it's not fair but he had to do something to try to "save" the season.

We'll see what if anything, the Sox do.

Lip

asindc
05-09-2010, 08:50 PM
What's very ironic is you change the names from the comments to those involving the Sox and you have the EXACT same scenario.

Seattle's G.M. basically admits it's not fair but he had to do something to try to "save" the season.

We'll see what if anything, the Sox do.

Lip

In other words, he is admitting that he is firing the guy as a scapegoat.

Lip Man 1
05-09-2010, 09:07 PM
Yes basically he said that in the story but the point is, fair or not, he felt SOMETHING had to be tried, something had to be done...standing pat apparently wasn't an option any longer with Seattle.

Lip

TDog
05-09-2010, 09:56 PM
Yes basically he said that in the story but the point is, fair or not, he felt SOMETHING had to be tied, something had to be done...standing pat apparently wasn't an option any longer with Seattle.

Lip

By analogy, the White Sox would be firing their pitching coach, though, considering that the pitching staff was supposed to be among the league's very best and instead it is among the very worst.

Firing your hitting coach isn't so different from standing pat. You're telling fans that you're doing something, but you aren't changing the hitters. You aren't even changing the hitting philosophy. You're just pointing fingers at a scapegoat and hope things turn around while you have distracted fans from your problems.

dickallen15
05-09-2010, 10:12 PM
By analogy, the White Sox would be firing their pitching coach, though, considering that the pitching staff was supposed to be among the league's very best and instead it is among the very worst.

Firing your hitting coach isn't so different from standing pat. You're telling fans that you're doing something, but you aren't changing the hitters. You aren't even changing the hitting philosophy. You're just pointing fingers at a scapegoat and hope things turn around while you have distracted fans from your problems.

Don't you know, when White Sox hitters fail, its Greg Walker's fault. When their pitchers fail, its on the pitchers. Don Cooper has nothing to do with it.

Slappy
05-09-2010, 10:35 PM
Cockrell was a scapegoat for problems that he didn't create and over which he had no control. The Mariners ridiculously were the consensus choice in the AL West. People expected way too much from the Mariners and this is an effort to tell the fans that changes are being made, when there aren't even any real changes considering they promoted someone from within.

There is a chance that the Alonzo Powell will be able to help Adam Moore where Cockrell couldn't because Powell knows him better, but having seen Moore catch, I don't believe he belongs in the majors on either offense or defense. The clubhouse is unhappy with the move.

Gotta agree.

We're kinda in the same boat, but firing Greg Walker wont fool any knowledgeable fan into coming out to the games. You can only do so much with a sub par offense. Still, if they think they can bring someone in that will be able to communicate with Quentin, Gordon, Alexei etc better, then I'm all for it.

johnnyg83
05-10-2010, 09:39 AM
I'll take Cooper's career-to-date resume any day over Walker's.

Does Walker have a success story? Rios for six weeks? Konerko?

Cooper can point out some guys who've thrived under him: Thornton, Danks, Garcia, Floyd (on a career basis), Carrasco, Santos ... and if you include Konerko for Walker you have to include MB for Cooper.

jabrch
05-10-2010, 10:44 AM
Yes basically he said that in the story but the point is, fair or not, he felt SOMETHING had to be tried, something had to be done...standing pat apparently wasn't an option any longer with Seattle.

Lip


I don't understand why people feel that movement is inherently better than staying the course, even if you are off track.

If you have a better option for a hitting coach, who will make your hitters better, then it is a no-brainer. But change for change's sake (scapegoating) makes little sense to me. We have scored 45 runs in the last 9 games (queue up the questions of sample size, of the opposition sucking and of April sucking). During that time we are 4-5. We had 2 really bad offensive games. I'm not going to count the 3 run outing in NY on Sunday mostly because Hughes (1.69 ERA and .95 WHIP) is doing that too a lot of clubs (no team has scored more than 2 earned runs against Hughes). I'm not saying this is a good hitting club, or that things are good now, or that they even will ever become good. But if this team could average 5 runs per game the rest of the season, I can't see how the problem is Walker. I know - projecting 125 games based on 9 is lazy and sloppy. So is firing a guy just because you want change.

Everyone was all over Jack Z's jock this off season. I didn't see it then - and I still don't. Ichiro and Franklin Gutierrez are the only guys who I'd take right now over what we have. The great Chone Figgins, of the 9mm per for 4 (5th is a vesting option) contract... vs Pierre for 4mm per for 2 years...I guess that's debateable...but I'll stick with our guy just based on length/cost of that liability. Hey - at least they got Milton Bradley for 12mm in 2010 - and are paying 5.5mm of Silva's deal in 2010 to do it - that's 17mm for Milton Bradley next year....about 17mm too much.

[gross exaggeration]Firing the hitting coach and replacing him with a new guy is to me like Luongo shaving his playoff beard. Sure - they won yesterday. Why? Maybe they played better - or maybe not having facial hair really made the difference... More likely - they played better.[/gross exaggerion] Some guys may do better with a different voice in their head - some may do worse. I guess in Seattle's case, almost nobody really could do worse since Ichiro probably isn't a guy who is "coached" much at this point in his career - and only Franklin G is hitting besides Ichiiro

LoveYourSuit
05-10-2010, 10:51 AM
Firing the hitting hitting coach when your team sucks at hitting :scratch:

What a concept.

kittle42
05-10-2010, 11:22 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/390197-seattle-mariners-fire-hitting-coach-alan-cockrell

Can't understand why anyone would think firing a hitting coach would ever help.

Bob Roarman
05-11-2010, 04:10 AM
I'll take Cooper's career-to-date resume any day over Walker's.

Does Walker have a success story? Rios for six weeks? Konerko?

Cooper can point out some guys who've thrived under him: Thornton, Danks, Garcia, Floyd (on a career basis), Carrasco, Santos ... and if you include Konerko for Walker you have to include MB for Cooper.

Rios was good before he got here. Pitching is a completely different animal. Incomparable.

Look, a MAJOR LEAGUE hitting coach doesn't have much effect on a team's hitting. Most times they are one of the last dominoes to fall before the manager's ass is on the hot seat. Shuffle around the batting coaches in the MLB you'd see little to no difference. For the most part, the hitters you have at that level are what they are. It doesn't mean the job is meaningless. They still have their work to do against opposing pitcher's and scouting and whatnot, but the guys that have made it to the MLB level, there's not a whole lot of difference a hitting coach makes, especially with a veteran group of hitters the Sox have.

There are always exceptions, there are always the one or two guys that may strike gold with a hitter or two or vice versa when you have a batting coach who is a complete dead beat and doesn't care about doing any scouting whatsoever. But all in all, it's a penciled in name with a job title. Like a bench coach. Another voice in the dugout. There's really no reason to be so emotionally determined to get rid of or attain a batting coach. Teams that make moves like the Cubs did to get their hitting coach show exactly how smart that organization is. As if you needed more examples, but that was another one.

doublem23
05-11-2010, 04:22 AM
Don't you know, when White Sox hitters fail, its Greg Walker's fault. When their pitchers fail, its on the pitchers. Don Cooper has nothing to do with it.

It's like hitting my head on a damn wall, I swear.