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View Full Version : *Official* 'About As Bad As It Getz' 5/4 KC vs. White Sox Postgame Thread


soxinem1
05-04-2010, 10:51 PM
And we lose to another 'Cy Young Contender'.

I think it might be time to bench Teahen and give Nix a shot.

If the guy was hitting that would be one thing, but the bonehead errors and just amplify what a mistake it was to give up anything to get a guy who had no position in KC coming into the season.

And he gets an extension to boot.

And as far as the rest of the team is concerned, another pisspoor effort.

If everyone wants to do a 1983 redux, move the catcher to the #2 spot, bench the Opening Day SS and 3B.

Fire away!!!

Frater Perdurabo
05-04-2010, 10:52 PM
Tip your caps.

Slappy
05-04-2010, 10:53 PM
Lol.

LoveYourSuit
05-04-2010, 10:53 PM
And we lose to another 'Cy Young Contender'.

I think it might be time to bench Teahen and give Nix a shot.

If the guy was hitting that would be one thing, but the bonehead errors and just amplify what a mistake it was to give up anything to get a guy who had no position in KC coming into the season.

And he gets an extension to boot.

And as far as the rest of the team is concerned, another pisspoor effort.

If everyone wants to do a 1983 redux, move the catcher to the #2 spot, bench the Opening Day SS and 3B.



Fire way!!!

He is a disgrace to the #23, especially in this town.

Boondock Saint
05-04-2010, 10:54 PM
Lots of blame to go around tonight. Jones, Konerko, Gavin and Ozzie all played a large part.

Crede24Thome25
05-04-2010, 10:54 PM
And we lose to another 'Cy Young Contender'.

I think it might be time to bench Teahen and give Nix a shot.

If the guy was hitting that would be one thing, but the bonehead errors and just amplify what a mistake it was to give up anything to get a guy who had no position in KC coming into the season.

And he gets an extension to boot.

And as far as the rest of the team is concerned, another pisspoor effort.

If everyone wants to do a 1983 redux, move the catcher to the #2 spot, bench the Opening Day SS and 3B.

Fire away!!!

How about we hold him ransom until he pays us back what Kenny has agreed to pay him. I hate Teahen with all my heart.

SephClone89
05-04-2010, 10:54 PM
He is a disgrace to the #23, especially in this town.

:rolleyes:

Slappy
05-04-2010, 10:55 PM
Why did Gavin go out there for the 7th again?

Man o man...

soxinem1
05-04-2010, 10:55 PM
He is a disgrace to the #23, especially in this town.

Robin Ventura
Michael Jordan
Jermaine Dye
Mark Teahen

Frater Perdurabo
05-04-2010, 10:55 PM
Rios needs to hit third. Beckham needs to hit lower in the order.

I might go:

Pierre
Alexei (tell him to try to bunt for a hit)
Rios
Paulie
Jones
Teahen
Quentin
AJ
Beckham

WhiteSox5187
05-04-2010, 10:56 PM
One could make an argument that Quentin cost the Sox three runs tonight in RF - but they won't show up in the box score. I'm not sure why someone wasn't up as soon as Getz got on in the seventh. I'm not sure why Jones was swinging at a 1-0 pitch after the pitcher had thrown six straight balls. I'm not so sure how the Sox only had seven base runners against Hochevar when he fell behind nearly EVERY guy in the lineup. I'm not so sure how the Sox only scored ONE UNEARNED run against that same pitcher. I'm not so sure why Greg Walker still has a job. There are a lot of things about this team that befuddle me.

Tragg
05-04-2010, 10:57 PM
Once again Guillen waits for the starter to pitch the Sox out of the game before he makes a change. The Sox were hanging in 1-2, but Floyd had been hit a lot, and he waits for another 5 for hits and 4 runs before making this change. This is the 4th or so time this year that Guillen has done that.
For what purpose? he had to use the bullpen anyway when the game was out of reach. Doesn't want to hurt Floyd's confidence? His pitch count was low? Come on. 13 hits and 6 runs THEN Guillen decides to make a change. Nice Ozzie.


Now Guillen's poor talent decisions are being matched by dugout decisions.

Boondock Saint
05-04-2010, 10:57 PM
Why did Gavin go out there for the 7th again?

Man o man...

My big issue wasn't that he was out for the 7th, as he finally looked like he was getting guys out consistently. I'm upset that Ozzie let him go out there and get shelled before even warming Santos up. Gavin had been struggling all game, and there should have been a backup plan at that point.

SephClone89
05-04-2010, 10:57 PM
If the guy was hitting that would be one thing, but the bonehead errors and just amplify what a mistake it was to give up anything to get a guy who had no position in KC coming into the season.



Let's be fair here. Teahen is hitting better than Pierre, Beckham, Pierzynski, Quentin and Alexei.

Coops4Aces
05-04-2010, 10:58 PM
I'd go

Pierre LF
Iguchi 2B
Jones RF
PK 1b
Rios CF
AJ C
Quentin DH
Beckham 3B
Ramirez SS

LoveYourSuit
05-04-2010, 10:59 PM
Robin Ventura
Michael Jordan
Jermaine Dye
Mark Teahen

Sandberg and Hester.

Boondock Saint
05-04-2010, 10:59 PM
I'd go

Pierre LF
Iguchi 2B
Jones RF
PK 1b
Rios CF
AJ C
Quentin DH
Beckham 3B
Ramirez SS

You would also have a black hole batting second. He doesn't have an MLB job for a reason.

Coops4Aces
05-04-2010, 11:00 PM
One could make an argument that Quentin cost the Sox three runs tonight in RF - but they won't show up in the box score. I'm not sure why someone wasn't up as soon as Getz got on in the seventh. I'm not sure why Jones was swinging at a 1-0 pitch after the pitcher had thrown six straight balls. I'm not so sure how the Sox only had seven base runners against Hochevar when he fell behind nearly EVERY guy in the lineup. I'm not so sure how the Sox only scored ONE UNEARNED run against that same pitcher. I'm not so sure why Greg Walker still has a job. There are a lot of things about this team that befuddle me.

:gulp:Bingo!

soxinem1
05-04-2010, 11:00 PM
Let's be fair here. Teahen is hitting better than Pierre, Beckham, Pierzynski, Quentin and Alexei.

You are right, however other than Ramirez, Teahen has been the worst defender on the team.

Teahen is by far the leader in the 2010 Iron Glove 'race' for 3B.

Frankfan4life
05-04-2010, 11:01 PM
Today's game is just typical of how this team plays. It's hard to keep watching such really bad baseball.

LoveYourSuit
05-04-2010, 11:01 PM
The starting rotation is the reason we are well below .500.

Until this group gets it together, we will continue to suck.

The offense was expected to not be great, but the starting pitching was suppose to be amongst the elite.

Slappy
05-04-2010, 11:01 PM
Awful game by Jones, too. I don't know if he's too cocky up at the plate or what, but it seems like he can't put together 2 great games in a row. He needs to tone down the cockiness.

He'll look great up there, get ahead in the count and then blow it by letting his cockiness take over instead of just playing baseball. Gosh dangit, that's frustrating.

Crede24Thome25
05-04-2010, 11:02 PM
Let's be fair here. Teahen is hitting better than Pierre, Beckham, Pierzynski, Quentin and Alexei.
If no one is on base when he hits they don't matter, at least they are driving in runs. When ever he's at bat and someones on he strikes out on a ball in the dirt.

WhiteSox5187
05-04-2010, 11:02 PM
My big issue wasn't that he was out for the 7th, as he finally looked like he was getting guys out consistently. I'm upset that Ozzie let him go out there and get shelled before even warming Santos up. Gavin had been struggling all game, and there should have been a backup plan at that point.

That's what I was thinking. I had no problem with Gavin being out there for the seventh, but once guys started getting on, someone should have been up.

Also, as I mentioned earlier, Quentin cost this team three runs in the OF. Well, at least two. He broke in for the first two steps with DeJesus' leadoff double and took FOREVER getting to Pods' triple in the seventh. There was no WAY that should have been a triple. Also AJ could have thrown out Getz in the seventh but double pumped. Lots and lots of blame to go around defensively, the sort of things that just won't show up in the box score that came back to kill Gavin.

JermaineDye05
05-04-2010, 11:02 PM
Well, at least this means I get to have a Guinness :gulp:

soxinem1
05-04-2010, 11:03 PM
Sandberg and Hester.

Forgot about Hester, but I would not think of mentioning a former CHC player in a winning or losing White Sox Postgame Thread.:smile:

WhiteSox5187
05-04-2010, 11:04 PM
I'd go

Pierre LF
Iguchi 2B
Jones RF
PK 1b
Rios CF
AJ C
Quentin DH
Beckham 3B
Ramirez SS

Surely we can't be THAT desperate.

LoveYourSuit
05-04-2010, 11:04 PM
Forgot about Hester, but I would not think of mentioning a former CHC player in a winning or losing White Sox Postgame Thread.:smile:


I did, becuase he was pretty damn good and a good guy also.

SephClone89
05-04-2010, 11:05 PM
Take the series tomorrow.

JB98
05-04-2010, 11:06 PM
:anon:

Slappy
05-04-2010, 11:06 PM
My big issue wasn't that he was out for the 7th, as he finally looked like he was getting guys out consistently. I'm upset that Ozzie let him go out there and get shelled before even warming Santos up. Gavin had been struggling all game, and there should have been a backup plan at that point.

No manager in their right mind would have trotted Gavin out in the 7th after giving up 12 hits and 4 runs. There's just no reason to do it. Whatsoever.

Coops4Aces
05-04-2010, 11:06 PM
Sandberg and Hester.

Hester? Not a chance.

Surely we can't be THAT desperate.

Of course not

Coops4Aces
05-04-2010, 11:07 PM
No manager in their right mind would have trotted Gavin out in the 7th after giving up 12 hits and 4 runs.

2 runs

Tragg
05-04-2010, 11:07 PM
Take the series tomorrow.
Let's hope so.
And if we'll do, we'll be 2-6-1 in series'.

Boondock Saint
05-04-2010, 11:08 PM
No manager in their right mind would have trotted Gavin out in the 7th after giving up 12 hits and 4 runs.

It's still a stretch to go that far. Gavin was at just 80 pitches, and he had retired seven consecutive up to that point.

Slappy
05-04-2010, 11:09 PM
It's still a stretch to go that far. Gavin was at just 80 pitches, and he had retired seven consecutive up to that point.

...and given up 12 hits.

Sounds like a recipe for success to me...

Boondock Saint
05-04-2010, 11:11 PM
...and given up 12 hits.

Sounds like a recipe for success to me...

Say it again, maybe it will mean something different next time. I know he was getting knocked around, but he was looking like he had it under control. Again, I don't blame Ozzie for letting him go out there for the seventh, but not having someone up and ready just in case is on him.

russ99
05-04-2010, 11:12 PM
No manager in their right mind would have trotted Gavin out in the 7th after giving up 12 hits and 4 runs. There's just no reason to do it. Whatsoever.

Go ahead. Keep blaming Ozzie... When he yanks guys - it's too early, when he leaves them in - it's too late. Dude can't win.

What was the pitch count? Gavin ended with 94 after throwing plenty in the 7th. That had to be a big reason why he started the 7th.

Bottom line, our pitching did enough to win, our hitters failed again - 13 left on base, and 0-7 RISP.

And to all the Pierre haters, take that. 2-3 with a walk and 2 SBs. But I thought he shouldn't ever lead off again...

Slappy
05-04-2010, 11:12 PM
Say it again, maybe it will mean something different next time.

Lol. I guess the irony of that statement is lost on you.

Boondock Saint
05-04-2010, 11:12 PM
go ahead. Keep blaming ozzie... When he yanks guys - it's too early, when he leaves them in - it's too late. Dude can't win.

what was the pitch count? gavin ended with 94 after throwing plenty in the 7th. That had to be a big reason why he started the 7th.

80.

WhiteSox5187
05-04-2010, 11:13 PM
2 runs

1 earned; eight hits with three of them being of the bunt variety and only one extra base hit which was misplayed by Quentin. Oh and he had also retired the last seven guys he faced. Was Gavin great? Nope. Was he the MAIN reason we lost? I would argue not.

Boondock Saint
05-04-2010, 11:14 PM
Lol. I guess the irony of that statement is lost on you.

You aren't listening, I can't help that. Gavin had only given up two runs, and was starting to roll. Ozzie would have been crucified if he had pulled Gavin before giving him a chance to go back out there.

Coops4Aces
05-04-2010, 11:14 PM
Let me say something, Ozzie would have been blasted for taking Gavin out after 6 innings when he had only thrown 80 pitches and retired like 7 in a row. Anyone with half of a brain would have left Gavin in to pitch the 7th. That said, someone should have been ready in the 'pen.

Slappy
05-04-2010, 11:16 PM
He looked bad and predictable all game. All season, really.

But I guess the only things that matter are pitch count.

doublem23
05-04-2010, 11:16 PM
Last place is on the line tomorrow at the Cell!!! Get your tickets now!

WhiteSox5187
05-04-2010, 11:16 PM
Let me say something, Ozzie would have been blasted for taking Gavin out after 6 innings when he had only thrown 80 pitches and retired like 7 in a row. Anyone with half of a brain would have left Gavin in to pitch the 7th. That said, someone should have been ready in the 'pen.

I don't know if they should have been ready per say, but as soon as Getz got on I would have had someone getting up. Also, for what it's worth, Getz was dead to rights at second but AJ double pumped on the throw to second so he was safe. If AJ gets rid of the ball right away I think Getz is out. On top of that, Quentin took FOREVER in getting to the ball Pods hit for his triple. That shouldn't have been a triple.

Craig Grebeck
05-04-2010, 11:17 PM
Does pitch count matter when you've been knocked around for 12 hits?

WhiteSox5187
05-04-2010, 11:18 PM
He looked bad and predictable all game. All season, really.

But I guess the only things that matter are pitch count.

I have him ahead of everyone he faced, going into the seventh he had allowed one earned run. I was at the game so I didn't see where the ball was exactly in the strike zone, but it's not like he was getting killed.

Boondock Saint
05-04-2010, 11:20 PM
He looked bad and predictable all game. All season, really.

But I guess the only things that matter are pitch count.

Does pitch count matter when you've been knocked around for 12 hits?

It wasn't just about the pitch count. At that point, it was a 2-1 game, and Gavin had retired seven in a row. I don't think you can name a manager that wouldn't at least put him back out there to see if he can keep it going.

WhiteSox5187
05-04-2010, 11:20 PM
Does pitch count matter when you've been knocked around for 12 hits?

To state again, he gave up eight hits going into the seventh, three of them were bunts, two of them were bloops. The only extra basehit was DeJesus' leadoff double which Quentin broke in on. It's so important to actually watch the games. SO important.

Craig Grebeck
05-04-2010, 11:22 PM
To state again, he gave up eight hits going into the seventh, three of them were bunts, two of them were bloops. The only extra basehit was DeJesus' leadoff double which Quentin broke in on. It's so important to actually watch the games. SO important.
Gotcha.

I see the case.

Slappy
05-04-2010, 11:24 PM
So he gave up 5 hits in the 7th?

It's Dankerific
05-04-2010, 11:27 PM
Luckily we're just starting to warm up, April is behind us and the real games are just about to begin around memorial day!

TDog
05-04-2010, 11:28 PM
I understand people are upset, but Hochevar did beat the Twins in Minnesota behind a 16-hit Royals attack a couple of weeks ago. And the Royals scored 10 runs that Sunday afternoon. Hitting has not been the issue with the Royals this season, although many assumed that the Royals sucking must be the only logical explanation for Peavy not sucking Monday.

If you are going to blame Guillen for not having anyone warming up when Floyd suddenly lost it after six innings (after finding it after pitching out of trouble in the first three innings), you have to blame Cooper as well. Really, it's more Cooper's responsibility, although specifically who is warming up and when pitching changes are made would fall to Guillen.

Early on, the Royals twice loaded the bases with none out and failed to score the runner from third. Until things fell apart for Floyd, the only problem was the offense, although during the course of the game they managed to get six at bats with runners in scoring position. And it wasn't the bottom of the order or even Pierre or Teahen (or Kotsay or Vizquel or Wise or Anderson or any other WSI whipping boy) who failed. Jones failed twice, once hitting into a doubleplay. Konerko failed twice. Rios failed once, hitting into a doubleplay. Beckham also failed.

Basically, the White Sox put runners on base for the best RBI hitters, hitters who have had the most success on the team this season. There was nothing wrong with the batting order. There was no reason to question why any of those hitters who came up with runners in scoring position are even on the damn roster. Jones, Konerko, Rios and Beckham (not having a great season, but was having a pretty good night), simply didn't come through.

If Cooper and Guillen were relying too much on Floyd's pitch count, that would be unfortunate. People put too much emphasis on pitch count.

If Floyd gets through the seventh unscathed, this is a winnable game. Of course, there is no telling whether a seventh-inning reliever would have held the Royals.

Boondock Saint
05-04-2010, 11:28 PM
Luckily we're just starting to warm up, April is behind us and the real games are just about to begin around memorial day!

Still not clever.

Frankfan4life
05-04-2010, 11:28 PM
He looked bad and predictable all game. All season, really.

But I guess the only things that matter are pitch count.I knew in the first inning that Floyd was not pitching well. Several times this season opposing managers have pulled pitchers against us when it looked like they were getting hit hard and it changed the complexion of the game. I wouldn't have blamed Ozzie for pulling Floyd early. In fact, I was hoping he would. The score could easily have been worse if not for Paulie's great play.

WhiteSox5187
05-04-2010, 11:29 PM
So he gave up 5 hits in the 7th?

That sounds about right, BUT! In further defense of Gavin this is what I have written on my scorecard: Getz leads off with a single, steals second (AJ double pumps on throw, from my view it looked like he would have been out if AJ didn't do that, just me though). DeJesus grounds out to second, Getz to third. IF in, everyone in the OF (except Quentin move in). Pods lines right over first, Quentin takes awhile getting to ball, Beckham makes bad throw to third, Pods in with a triple. Butler singles (no notes on that single) and Pods scores. Guillen homers. I leave in disgust.

One could make the argument that there were the errors that don't show up in the box score by AJ, Quentin and Beckham that inning.

Slappy
05-04-2010, 11:30 PM
Anyway, knowing how easily rattled Gavin is, don't you think those ___ hits would have worn on his psyche? Gavin is not Jake Peavy where you can trot him back out there in the 7th or eighth after a game like that. Hell, Jake Peavy proved he's not Jake Peavy against the Indians a little while back.

PhillipsBubba
05-04-2010, 11:30 PM
Every time the Sox win, some fans get giddy and post things like, "Maybe this is the win that will turn it around!"

Kenny Williams wants to wait 60 days before making a decision on this team...what does he need to see???

Nothing can turn this team around unless he trades sacred cows like Konerko, AJ and Jenks.

Slappy
05-04-2010, 11:32 PM
That sounds about right

That doesn't sound right to me.

But I wasn't at the game and I don't have a score card in front of me.

WhiteSox5187
05-04-2010, 11:32 PM
I knew in the first inning that Floyd was not pitching well. Several times this season opposing managers have pulled pitchers against us when it looked like they were getting hit hard and it changed the complexion of the game. I wouldn't have blamed Ozzie for pulling Floyd early. In fact, I was hoping he would. The score could easily have been worse if not for Paulie's great play.

Floyd didn't look great in the first three innings but boy, there was a misplay by Quentin in the first, three bunt hits and a bloop by Aviles. It's not like they were hitting line shots. A lot of those hits had eyes.

Tragg
05-04-2010, 11:33 PM
There's no excuse for Floyd not being pulled earlier. Guillen's showing some Manuel tendencies - sleeping: not getting pitchers out, not using pinch hitters in obvious situations.
The Sox are sitting on 3 losing seasons out of 4, with a top 20% payroll.


the reports about Quentin's defense in right have been scary. he wasn't a good lf, and when people wondered how a bad LF could be a good RF, it's "his natural position." How long are we going to keep that going?

WhiteSox5187
05-04-2010, 11:33 PM
That doesn't sound right to me.

But I wasn't at the game and I don't have a score card in front of me.

I do, and to prove how big of a nerd I even started tracking pitches and making notes on the hits because I thought "I bet this could come in handy in the post game thread tonight..."

Boondock Saint
05-04-2010, 11:33 PM
That doesn't sound right to me.

But I wasn't at the game and I don't have a score card in front of me.

It is right. Getz, Pods, Butler, Guillen and Callaspo hit him before getting yanked.

edit: And Ozzie didn't even have Santos throwing until after Pods' triple.

Craig Grebeck
05-04-2010, 11:33 PM
I understand people are upset, but Hochevar did beat the Twins in Minnesota behind a 16-hit Royals attack a couple of weeks ago. And the Royals scored 10 runs that Sunday afternoon. Hitting has not been the issue with the Royals this season, although many assumed that the Royals sucking must be the only logical explanation for Peavy not sucking Monday.

If you are going to blame Guillen for not having anyone warming up when Floyd suddenly lost it after six innings (after finding it after pitching out of trouble in the first three innings), you have to blame Cooper as well. Really, it's more Cooper's responsibility, although specifically who is warming up and when pitching changes are made would fall to Guillen.

Early on, the Royals twice loaded the bases with none out and failed to score the runner from third. Until things fell apart for Floyd, the only problem was the offense, although during the course of the game they managed to get six at bats with runners in scoring position. And it wasn't the bottom of the order or even Pierre or Teahen (or Kotsay or Vizquel or Wise or Anderson or any other WSI whipping boy) who failed. Jones failed twice, once hitting into a doubleplay. Konerko failed twice. Rios failed once, hitting into a doubleplay. Beckham also failed.

Basically, the White Sox put runners on base for the best RBI hitters, hitters who have had the most success on the team this season. There was nothing wrong with the batting order. There was no reason to question why any of those hitters who came up with runners in scoring position are even on the damn roster. Jones, Konerko, Rios and Beckham (not having a great season, but was having a pretty good night), simply didn't come through.

If Cooper and Guillen were relying too much on Floyd's pitch count, that would be unfortunate. People put too much emphasis on pitch count.

If Floyd gets through the seventh unscathed, this is a winnable game. Of course, there is no telling whether a seventh-inning reliever would have held the Royals.
Yeah, that's not true.

WhiteSox5187
05-04-2010, 11:35 PM
There's no excuse for Floyd not being pulled earlier. Guillen's showing some Manuel tendencies - sleeping: not getting pitchers out, not using pinch hitters in obvious situations.
The Sox are sitting on 3 losing seasons out of 4, with a top 20% payroll.

He was at eighty pitches and had retired the last seven guys he faced, a lot of the hits he gave up were soft (three were bunts, one was a bloop and another was a misplay by Quentin which would result in three solid hits). I don't mind him going out there for the seventh, but as I said earlier, once Getz got on I would have had someone up in the bullpen.

kittle42
05-04-2010, 11:36 PM
This team stinks. It's the same problems in almost every loss, and even some wins.

My prediction is we get out of May 8-9 games under. That should be enough for Kenny to start pulling the plug.

For those of you unable to make games right now, it already feels like August-September 2007 out there.

soxlady8
05-04-2010, 11:36 PM
from that pee pee poor effort of a game ...

positives ... well at least AJ got a home run
and the weather was very nice (but a bit windy )
...also NICE CHEAP seats via Stub Hub !!

negatives ... What is up w Gavin ????
...Teahen has really made me believe that he is NOT a good THIRD basemen
...Jones was swinging for fences during all of his at bats
...bad fielding all around
...not so great bullpen effort by Williams and Pena
... very very very small crowd , it looked like maybe 12,000 ... probably abut 1/3rd of capacity even on a nice nice nite like this !!!


Battle of the Cellar Dwellars continues tomorrow w Garcia on the mound -- he pitched pretty well last time out , so maybe ??

Lip Man 1
05-04-2010, 11:36 PM
The only question is, can the White Sox win a series...at home...against the garbage Royals.

Inquiring minds want to know.

Lip

kittle42
05-04-2010, 11:39 PM
The only question is, can the White Sox win a series...at home...against the garbage Royals.

Inquiring minds want to know.

Lip

I'll guess no. They needed two walk-offs to win their only series of the season.

Boondock Saint
05-04-2010, 11:39 PM
Yeah, that's not true.

Are you saying it's not true that KC sucks, or that it isn't true that people made that assumption? Because you can just look at yesterday's postgame thread and see the number of "It's Kansas City, let's see him do it against someone better" posts.

Tragg
05-04-2010, 11:43 PM
Another question - is Teehan at, what, $4 mill a year, any better than Getz?
And williams extended him 3 years, before he played an inning.

Tragg
05-04-2010, 11:44 PM
This team stinks. It's the same problems in almost every loss, and even some wins.

My prediction is we get out of May 8-9 games under. That should be enough for Kenny to start pulling the plug.
He needs to do a really, really good job of plug-pulling and somehow get some players in here.

LoveYourSuit
05-04-2010, 11:44 PM
I'll guess no. They needed to walk-offs to win their only series of the season.


Did you mean two?

Slappy
05-04-2010, 11:45 PM
Dang, I really wanted to like that Teahen move. After watching this series, I'm just getting bitter about the Getz deal.

The only positive is that we got rid of Fields.

LoveYourSuit
05-04-2010, 11:46 PM
Dang, I really wanted to like that Teahen move. After watching this series, I'm just getting bitter about the Getz deal.

The only positive is that we got rid of Fields.


I think Getz is nothing special too.

The only problem with the deal to me is that Kenny just couldn't wait to open up the check book for this guy.

WhiteSox5187
05-04-2010, 11:50 PM
Did you mean two?

Holy christ, did someone just catch kittle making a mistake with grammar!:redneck

Noneck
05-04-2010, 11:50 PM
The only problem with the deal to me is that Kenny just couldn't wait to open up the check book for this guy.

The other problem was he gave up a guy that was on the cheap for years to come. The deal never made sense.

LoveYourSuit
05-04-2010, 11:52 PM
Holy christ, did someone just catch kittle making a mistake with grammar!:redneck


I hope Doublem considers me for POTW on that one.

Sorry Kittle, had to do it.

LoveYourSuit
05-04-2010, 11:53 PM
The other problem was he gave up a guy that was on the cheap for years to come. The deal never made sense.


What does being cheap have to do with anything if the guy is not that good?

Frankfan4life
05-04-2010, 11:54 PM
Floyd didn't look great in the first three innings but boy, there was a misplay by Quentin in the first, three bunt hits and a bloop by Aviles. It's not like they were hitting line shots. A lot of those hits had eyes.A hit is a hit and Quentin's misplay was still a hit. Floyd didn't have good stuff today and the longer he pitched, the more KC was able to take advantage of his weaknesses.

I'd like to see if a quicker hook in a similar situation might get a better result but at the very least Ozzie should have had someone warming up.

Slappy
05-04-2010, 11:57 PM
I think Getz is nothing special too.

The only problem with the deal to me is that Kenny just couldn't wait to open up the check book for this guy.

Believe me, I feel the same way. But I'd still rather have Getz at 2nd and Gordon at 3rd.

Noneck
05-04-2010, 11:58 PM
What does being cheap have to do with anything if the guy is not that good?

Not cheap in this case. Using your money wisely. If Getz turned out to be nothing, they lost nothing. But if Teahen is nothing, that affects who they can get down the line.

MetroPD
05-04-2010, 11:58 PM
Hey come on now, we're just running into good pitching. Hockevar is a future hall of famer.

TDog
05-05-2010, 12:00 AM
Yeah, that's not true.

Read yesterday's postgame thread and game thread comments.

Nowhere did I say you believed that. And if you believe I was jumping to the conclusion that you did, it may be because you know you didn't give credit where credit was due.

WhiteSox1989
05-05-2010, 12:01 AM
Really happy I didn't have to see this one.

Get 'em tomorrow..?

JB98
05-05-2010, 12:01 AM
The other problem was he gave up a guy that was on the cheap for years to come. The deal never made sense.

The deal was supposedly made to improve the infield defense. While Getz is not a good defender, Teahen is no better.

I think the Sox correctly identified infield defense as a weakness. But the move they made to address it was lateral at best.

LoveYourSuit
05-05-2010, 12:03 AM
Believe me, I feel the same way. But I'd still rather have Getz at 2nd and Gordon at 3rd.


I think it's been said over and over that Gordon was not going to stay at 3B.

So if Beckham is the franchise future, why should he have been kept away from the position he needed to be at? For Getz? I don't think so.

The Sox should have picked up a real 3B and problem would have been solved.

Noneck
05-05-2010, 12:05 AM
The deal was supposedly made to improve the infield defense. While Getz is not a good defender, Teahen is no better.

I think the Sox correctly identified infield defense as a weakness. But the move they made to address it was lateral at best.

Then that was a lot of money spent on a unproven 3rd baseman. I stand by my comment that it never made any sense.

GoGoCrede
05-05-2010, 12:05 AM
Just got back. Honestly, Gavin had nothing tonight, but I was really impressed how he gutted it out, especially in the 3rd inning, where he escaped that bases-loaded jam. I think he was left in a little too long. I felt really bad for him.

I heard quite a few people booing him as he left. I was livid. :angry: He kept us in it for quite awhile...again, 2 runs isn't going to cut it (though I'm not excusing his performance, he was pretty bad tonight).

My attendance record is back to .500. I'm probably lucky it isn't worse.

Go for the series win tomorrow.

LoveYourSuit
05-05-2010, 12:07 AM
Not cheap in this case. Using your money wisely. If Getz turned out to be nothing, they lost nothing. But if Teahen is nothing, that affects who they can get down the line.


No.

What I meant is that it makes no sense to keep crying about losing a guy like Getz just because he can be had for cheap the next few years. Either the guy is good or the guy is bad. I don't think he is good.


Boone Logan could have been kept here for cheap, but he sucked.

No big loss for either guy.

JB98
05-05-2010, 12:07 AM
Then that was a lot of money spent on a unproven 3rd baseman. I stand by my comment that it never made any sense.

Oh, I'm not trying to refute your previous comment. I was just adding my two cents to what you stated.

The decision to extend Teahen was ridiculous, IMO.

Slappy
05-05-2010, 12:11 AM
I think it's been said over and over that Gordon was not going to stay at 3B.

So if Beckham is the franchise future, why should he have been kept away from the position he needed to be at? For Getz? I don't think so.

The Sox should have picked up a real 3B and problem would have been solved.

It's like you're trying to disagree with me or put words in my mouth. Just take it easy, please.

Anyway, I agree with what you're saying. I disagree with what they did with acquiring Teahen and getting rid of Getz, when at the very least, staying put would've been better than where we're at now. That's all.

doublem23
05-05-2010, 12:14 AM
Love the Sox, hate this team.

Noneck
05-05-2010, 12:14 AM
No.

What I meant is that it makes no sense to keep crying about losing a guy like Getz just because he can be had for cheap the next few years. Either the guy is good or the guy is bad. I don't think he is good.


Boone Logan could have been kept here for cheap, but he sucked.

No big loss for either guy.




Right now I would rather have Getz than Teahen based on salary. But of course they should have either got a hitting 3rd baseman or a defensive one.

I am not in love with Getz, I just like him over Teahen because at any given time you can cut him loose and you lost nothing. Teahen is not like that.

Lip Man 1
05-05-2010, 12:15 AM
JB:

Just my opinion but I think Kenny perhaps more than most G.M.'s really detests the arbitration process and wants to avoid it if at all possible. I think sometimes that is the reason he hands out these type deals, he just doesn't even want to begin going through that process and wants to postpone it if he can for one or two years with a player.

I understand and appreciate that attitude but you have to be careful. Without even looking deeply into it I think he's been doing things like this since back in the days of Antonio Ozuna (he gave him a three year deal then Ozuna promptly blew out his arm.)

It gets back to the philosophy of "cost certainty" which if not handled correctly can bite you on the rear end.

Lip

kittle42
05-05-2010, 12:18 AM
Typo.

LoveYourSuit
05-05-2010, 12:19 AM
It's like you're trying to disagree with me or put words in my mouth. Just take it easy, please.

Anyway, I agree with what you're saying. I disagree with what they did with acquiring Teahen and getting rid of Getz, when at the very least, staying put would've been better than where we're at now. That's all.


Staying put would have kept Gordon from getting his career started at 2B.

Getz was blocking him, they had to move him.

It's what they got back for Getz that can be of arguement here, although I think Getz for Teahen is = value. Signing Teahen for that extension was stupid, I will not argue that.

The Sox mistake was to assume Teahen was anything more than a bench player. Moving Beckham to 2B was not a mistake. Moving Getz was not a mistake either.

LoveYourSuit
05-05-2010, 12:26 AM
JB:

Just my opinion but I think Kenny perhaps more than most G.M.'s really detests the arbitration process and wants to avoid it if at all possible. I think sometimes that is the reason he hands out these type deals, he just doesn't even want to begin going through that process and wants to postpone it if he can for one or two years with a player.

I understand and appreciate that attitude but you have to be careful. Without even looking deeply into it I think he's been doing things like this since back in the days of Antonio Ozuna (he gave him a three year deal then Ozuna promptly blew out his arm.)

It gets back to the philosophy of "cost certainty" which if not handled correctly can bite you on the rear end.

Lip


Exactly.


I think it's Kenny's philosophy that every burn out from other teams will turn their careers around here and become good people and good players (see AJ, see Thornton).

So with that assumption, he tries to lock these guys in long term for cheap money because he wants them here for a bargain if they do become good here. But that plan has backfired on a few guys as you mentioned.

Slappy
05-05-2010, 12:26 AM
Well, I liked Alexei at 2nd way more than at short, I'll tell you that. I think he was more comfortable there, too. Ozzie thinks he's a top 3 SS and that's beyond ridiculous. So where do you start improving the infield then, because TBH, it's full of holes. I think we could have made a better move at 1B or OF, with our money. Time will tell if Gordon needs to be at 2nd.

GoGoCrede
05-05-2010, 12:27 AM
Oh, and I was sitting down the first baseline, and Gordon didn't seem like he had his head in the game at all.

It was really windy tonight, and there was a ton of garbage on the field. And I'm not just talking about the players. :tongue:

LoveYourSuit
05-05-2010, 12:30 AM
Well, I liked Alexei at 2nd way more than at short, I'll tell you that. I think he was more comfortable there, too. Ozzie thinks he's a top 3 SS and that's beyond ridiculous. So where do you start improving the infield then, because TBH, it's full of holes. I think we could have made a better move at 1B or OF, with our money. Time will tell if Gordon needs to be at 2nd.

I side with Ozzie and Kenny and realize that Beckham is not a SS. They made the right move there, now the kid needs to just start hitting the ball.

Alexei is average at SS. He can be very good, but I don't get it with him sometimes.

3B is a huge hole, because even down in the farm there is nothing there with the glove or even the bat that will knock your Sox off.

I will say it here today on May 4, 2010: Viciedo is a complete BUST.

hi im skot
05-05-2010, 12:31 AM
I'd go

Pierre LF
Iguchi 2B
Jones RF
PK 1b
Rios CF
AJ C
Quentin DH
Beckham 3B
Ramirez SS

Yeah, why not?

:?:

WhiteSox1989
05-05-2010, 12:36 AM
Yeah, why not?

:?:
Clearly it's the only logical solution.

hi im skot
05-05-2010, 12:39 AM
Love the Sox, hate this team.

My thoughts exactly.

hi im skot
05-05-2010, 12:39 AM
I miss Uribe.

WhiteSox1989
05-05-2010, 12:42 AM
I miss Uribe.
Never thought I'd say this, but yeah, so do I.

I liked Teahen based on his twitter account, that was a poor assessment.

Noneck
05-05-2010, 12:47 AM
Uribe would have been a solution for this year.

It would have enabled Beckham to move to 2nd, it would have either put Getz on the bench or used as trade bait and it wouldn't have hamstrung the Sox long term salary wise at 3rd base. Plus Uribe would have played a good defensive 3rd base.

Slappy
05-05-2010, 12:50 AM
Unless Walker continued to make him be streaky with the bat.

That is kind of implied in teal.

GoGoCrede
05-05-2010, 12:51 AM
Just give Bieber season tickets and we'll be fine.

WhiteSox1989
05-05-2010, 12:53 AM
Just give Bieber season tickets and we'll be fine.
I wonder if he can play third base..

/lame.

october23sp
05-05-2010, 12:54 AM
Unless Walker continued to make him be streaky with the bat.

That is kind of implied in teal.

Nice signature.:thumbsup:

Slappy
05-05-2010, 01:07 AM
:thumbsup:

ndgt10
05-05-2010, 01:15 AM
Tip your caps.

Sometimes that's all you can do.

Craig Grebeck
05-05-2010, 01:25 AM
Are you saying it's not true that KC sucks, or that it isn't true that people made that assumption? Because you can just look at yesterday's postgame thread and see the number of "It's Kansas City, let's see him do it against someone better" posts.
You and TDog show me one freaking time a number of posters assumed the only logical explanation for Peavy's success was the fact the Royals sucked.

Nellie_Fox
05-05-2010, 01:27 AM
You and TDog show me one freaking time a number of posters assumed the only logical explanation for Peavy's success was the fact the Royals sucked.Go read the thread. It was implied several times. And people don't always have to prove things to you. Every argument does not have to go on until there is a "winner."

Craig Grebeck
05-05-2010, 01:28 AM
Go read the thread. It was implied several times. And people don't always have to prove things to you. Every argument does not have to go on until there is a "winner."
I read the thread. I posted in the thread. People said, "Good to see, want to see it against teams other than the Royals, though."

I know people don't always have to prove things to me. That would mean they'd actually have to be, you know, truthful. Tough ****.

GoGoCrede
05-05-2010, 01:32 AM
You and TDog show me one freaking time a number of posters assumed the only logical explanation for Peavy's success was the fact the Royals sucked.

Well...didn't you kind of imply it here? Unless I'm misunderstanding what kind of proof you're looking for.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2487036&postcount=114

Craig Grebeck
05-05-2010, 01:34 AM
Well...didn't you kind of imply it here? Unless I'm misunderstanding what kind of proof you're looking for.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2487036&postcount=114
I said I wanted him to do well against a better team. I didn't say the only logical explanation for his success was the fact that the Royals suck.

Nellie_Fox
05-05-2010, 01:35 AM
I said I wanted him to do well against a better team. I didn't say the only logical explanation for his success was the fact that the Royals suck.No, you gave a slight compliment and then immediately took it back by calling into question the validity of the performance because of the opponent. Anybody who read your posts would have taken it as dismissing the performance.

You're trying to have it both ways.

GoGoCrede
05-05-2010, 01:36 AM
I said I wanted him to do well against a better team. I didn't say the only logical explanation for his success was the fact that the Royals suck.

Well, can't you at least see why people would assume you meant it was the only logical explanation? We're not mind readers.

Boondock Saint
05-05-2010, 01:39 AM
I said I wanted him to do well against a better team. I didn't say the only logical explanation for his success was the fact that the Royals suck.

The fact of the matter is, that right now, the only teams that are better at hitting the ball in the AL are the Yankees, Tigers, Twins and Red Sox.

Craig Grebeck
05-05-2010, 01:44 AM
Logical explanation: good pitcher.

Logical question: can he do it against a better team?

Boondock Saint
05-05-2010, 01:54 AM
Logical explanation: good pitcher.

Logical question: can he do it against a better team?

It's not like he doesn't have a track record. This first month is the exception in his career, not the rule. I'd say that's enough proof right there.

WhiteSox1989
05-05-2010, 02:09 AM
It's not like he doesn't have a track record. This first month is the exception in his career, not the rule. I'd say that's enough proof right there.
Stop it with your logic.

Craig Grebeck
05-05-2010, 02:12 AM
It's not like he doesn't have a track record. This first month is the exception in his career, not the rule. I'd say that's enough proof right there.
Facepalm. Nevermind. Won't question the guy ever again.

Boondock Saint
05-05-2010, 02:20 AM
Facepalm. Nevermind. Won't question the guy ever again.

Yeah, that's exactly what I said. You asked if he can do it against better. I told you that he has done it against better for the last seven years. So go ahead and keep pretending that nobody has an answer for your questions. I'm not the person writing off seven years of success because of one month of struggling. I'm not the person who should have to come up with answers. It's your assessment that Peavy can't beat better.

WhiteSox1989
05-05-2010, 03:37 AM
I've got a feeling Peavy is going to be pretty dominant from here on out. Even if it's against the Royals or Nationals, I'm happy about that.

masloan
05-05-2010, 05:41 AM
In 15 of the Sox 27 games this year they have given up 5 or more runs. The Sox were very fortunate the game was not over after a few innings. Floyd has looked terrible so far, and the defense has not helped.

LITTLE NELL
05-05-2010, 07:19 AM
If we lose tonight to the ****ty Royals, Ozzie and Walker have to go.
Something has to be done to shake these guys up

Craig Grebeck
05-05-2010, 07:52 AM
Yeah, that's exactly what I said. You asked if he can do it against better. I told you that he has done it against better for the last seven years. So go ahead and keep pretending that nobody has an answer for your questions. I'm not the person writing off seven years of success because of one month of struggling. I'm not the person who should have to come up with answers. It's your assessment that Peavy can't beat better.
Again, you are placing words in my mouth.

harwar
05-05-2010, 07:56 AM
not a pleasant game to sit through .. it was more fun watching the flags blow around than the game itself .. Hochevar could not find the plate early but we let him off the hook by swinging wildly at pitches nowhere near the strike zone .. i'm supremely disappointed in Gavin Floyd .. he found his curve in the 4th, was dealing, and then BAM! .. epic meltdown .. i thought this would be his big year and that he might even win 20 .. not sure but i might be able to do better at 3rd and RF and i use a cane to get around .. just go out tonight, play well, win and find a way to take the series from the jays

kittle42
05-05-2010, 07:58 AM
Facepalm. Nevermind. Won't question the guy ever again.

I actually tend to agree with you many times, but you're out of line - and really for no good reason - in this thread. It's like you're arguing solely for argument's sake.

kittle42
05-05-2010, 07:59 AM
not a pleasant game to sit through .. it was more fun watching the flags blow around than the game itself .. Hochevar could not find the plate early but we let him off the hook by swinging wildly at pitches nowhere near the strike zone .. i'm supremely disappointed in Gavin Floyd .. he found his curve in the 4th, was dealing, and then BAM! .. epic meltdown .. i thought this would be his big year and that he might even win 20 .. not sure but i might be able to do better at 3rd and RF and i use a cane to get around .. just go out tonight, play well, win and find a way to take the series from the jays

The Sox might win 20....:cool:

Craig Grebeck
05-05-2010, 08:11 AM
I actually tend to agree with you many times, but you're out of line - and really for no good reason - in this thread. It's like you're arguing solely for argument's sake.
It's the complete misrepresentation of an argument that pisses me off. No one ever said that the only reason Peavy succeeded was that the Royals sucked. No one. Yet that's the groupthink line that's pushed.

masloan
05-05-2010, 08:30 AM
I actually tend to agree with you many times, but you're out of line - and really for no good reason - in this thread. It's like you're arguing solely for argument's sake.

I really do not understand what the problem with Grebeck's comment is. All he was saying was that while it was a great performance, he would like to see it versus a better hitting team. Nothing wrong with that at all. If the Sox win 10 in a row vs. KC, Baltimore and Pittsburgh, I think we would all be happy. But at the same time we would all like to see them win versus the better teams before we conclude that the Sox are in fact a good team.

russ99
05-05-2010, 08:37 AM
Staying put would have kept Gordon from getting his career started at 2B.

Getz was blocking him, they had to move him.

It's what they got back for Getz that can be of arguement here, although I think Getz for Teahen is = value. Signing Teahen for that extension was stupid, I will not argue that.

The Sox mistake was to assume Teahen was anything more than a bench player. Moving Beckham to 2B was not a mistake. Moving Getz was not a mistake either.

The way he's looking at the plate, I'd say Beckham's more a bench player at this point than Teahen is.

I love how people around here deem players as bench players or "bad at baseball" after a game or two... and how Beckham is such a superstar despite his performance.

masloan
05-05-2010, 08:43 AM
The way he's looking at the plate, I'd say Beckham's more a bench player at this point than Teahen is.

I love how people around here deem players as bench players or "bad at baseball" after a game or two... and how Beckham is such a superstar despite his performance.


I completely agree. We all know Beckham has potential. And the Sox were really counting on him this year. Right now he is not living up to their expectations. He is still very young, and I am confident he will become a very good player for the Sox for a long time. But right now he is really hurting them.

TomBradley72
05-05-2010, 09:14 AM
My $0.02:


Teahen is a DH/super sub ONLY...and talent evaluation that had him as the answer at 3rd base (including an extension before he every put on the jersey) has to put the competence of KW/Ozzie and our scouting in questions.
"Ozzieball" is a myth...when's the last time we really put pressure on a defense? The few times Pierre actually gets on to lead off an inning, we don't have him moving. Last night's 1st inning being a prime example.
There's no leadership or spark on this team...unless KW brings in another piece in the puzzle (3rd baseman or DH), we have no chance.
While I'm bitching about everything, last night was my 1st trip to the ballpark this year..they should be embarassed to have worn out/paint peeling pinwheels, etc. from the 2003 All Star game (from SEVEN years ago) still untouched. And the random collection of various scoreboards to get information (obstructed from many viewpoints in the park), is pathetic.

Boondock Saint
05-05-2010, 09:27 AM
It's the complete misrepresentation of an argument that pisses me off. No one ever said that the only reason Peavy succeeded was that the Royals sucked. No one. Yet that's the groupthink line that's pushed.

Glad Peavy pitched well, but it was the Royals. We'll see if he can right the ship against real teams.

Maybe you can explain what you meant by "real teams"? Because I don't see how that can be interpreted as anything other than "Kansas City doesn't count because they suck". Even after someone pointed out that KC was hitting well, you wrote it off with "Check back with me after another month", as if the first month doesn't count. After the first month, Detroit, New York, Boston and Minnesota are the only teams with a better average in the AL. Do they have to report to you after another month, too, or do they get the credit in advance because they aren't Kansas City?

Craig Grebeck
05-05-2010, 09:39 AM
Maybe you can explain what you meant by "real teams"? Because I don't see how that can be interpreted as anything other than "Kansas City doesn't count because they suck". Even after someone pointed out that KC was hitting well, you wrote it off with "Check back with me after another month", as if the first month doesn't count. After the first month, Detroit, New York, Boston and Minnesota are the only teams with a better average in the AL. Do they have to report to you after another month, too, or do they get the credit in advance because they aren't Kansas City?
Yes, those four teams get credit for having talented ballplayers.

Boondock Saint
05-05-2010, 10:05 AM
Yes, those four teams get credit for having talented ballplayers.

:rolleyes:

Carolina Kenny
05-05-2010, 10:16 AM
To build a decent starting staff, which I believe we do have, and then field a below league average defense, is not a recipe for success.
If you want to have a good pitch, good glove and speedy team that's fine and its a solid plan. But......
At what defensive position do we have a gold glove caliber fielder?
Maybe Rios in CF?
Other than that we very spotty and inconsistant on defense.

Our over all defense sucks and won't support this pitching staff. Our team is a mish mash. It won't work. Wait until next year.

BainesHOF
05-05-2010, 10:27 AM
Three bunt hits by Kansas City. Teahen has been out of position in bunt situations all season. And Ramirez has been out of position for much of his time at shortstop. I'm not sure how that can be allowed to happen, especially when you consider our manager and his bench coach were infielders.

soltrain21
05-05-2010, 10:35 AM
This team is not fun to watch.

hi im skot
05-05-2010, 10:37 AM
This team is not fun to watch.

See you there Friday!!!!

:anon:

Carolina Kenny
05-05-2010, 10:42 AM
This team is not fun to watch.

I agree. If you want to be a power team, fine.
If you want to be a defensive, speed team fine.

The thing about this "balanced attack" thing is that if you are neither power or speed, it doesn't mean you are neccessarily balanced.

It could mean you just suck, which brings us to the current moment.

Our situational hitting is beyond bad. Our defense, is not stellar.

Apparently we have no help coming from the minors this year. It looks like the stage is set for another White Flag trade.

LoveYourSuit
05-05-2010, 11:04 AM
The way he's looking at the plate, I'd say Beckham's more a bench player at this point than Teahen is.

I love how people around here deem players as bench players or "bad at baseball" after a game or two... and how Beckham is such a superstar despite his performance.



I'm just going along with the hype here. The coaching staff, the media, the Sox fans all feel like this kid is the next big thing.

I'm just going along for the ride, don't want to be that odd man out.

Although, I do find it ludicrous that people have been outspoken here that you don't trade this kid even if you had a chance to get Gonazalez or Halladay (in the past). :rolleyes:

Craig Grebeck
05-05-2010, 11:05 AM
I think Juan Pierre is bad at baseball based on a hell of a lot more than one game or two. But hey, that's me. If you think he's looked better than Beckham, get your head checked.

khan
05-05-2010, 11:07 AM
I side with Ozzie and Kenny and realize that Beckham is not a SS. They made the right move there, now the kid needs to just start hitting the ball.
These guys haven't exactly been great at talent evaluation lately, have they? Look at the teams that have been assembled the past 2 offseasons, and you'll see festering piles of ****.

But to the point of Beckham, I think KW just has to remove Beckham from the roster by sending him to Charlotte. That way, Ozzie won't be able to bat Beckham 2nd any more.

And who to bring up from AAA? Who cares? Beckham's hitting about as well as Lillibridge was, so what's the difference? Maybe Beckham will figure it out down there. But he's killing this team up here.

Alexei is average at SS. He can be very good, but I don't get it with him sometimes.
I no longer trust Ozzie's talent evaluation. Ozzie was the guy who wanted us to believe that Ramirez can be a top 3 SS. Alexei isn't a top 3 SS, and I'm not sure he's even an above-average SS.

3B is a huge hole, because even down in the farm there is nothing there with the glove or even the bat that will knock your Sox off.

I will say it here today on May 4, 2010: Viciedo is a complete BUST.
You may be right about Viciedo, but I hold out hope that Morel may someday prove to be better than the golden god that is Mark Teahen.

This team is expensively-assembled, yet incomplete. What's worse is that many of the recent moves [Rios/Peavey/Teahen/Pierre] are expensive and have stripped the team of DESPERATELY-needed financial flexibility. There are too many overpaid underachievers in this team, many of whom are untradeable due to their obese contracts.

But then, this is what happens when you stupidly let the manager have too much input into the makeup of the roster.

khan
05-05-2010, 11:08 AM
I think Juan Pierre is bad at baseball based on a hell of a lot more than one game or two. But hey, that's me. If you think he's looked better than Beckham, get your head checked.

We're really setting the bar HIGH here, aren't we?

TDog
05-05-2010, 11:08 AM
Three bunt hits by Kansas City. Teahen has been out of position in bunt situations all season. And Ramirez has been out of position for much of his time at shortstop. I'm not sure how that can be allowed to happen, especially when you consider our manager and his bench coach were infielders.

I don't believe there is anything wrong with Ramirez at shortstop, but it's interesting that the Royals in particular would bunt as much as they did with Teahen playing third base. The Royals coaches have seen a lot more of Teahen in the field than the White Sox coaches have.

Certainly have people who can bunt for hits, but they had just five bunt singles coming into Tuesday's game.

SI1020
05-05-2010, 11:16 AM
This team is not fun to watch. Not fun to watch and not very good. The only two I trust on defense are Rios and Konerko. As for the other aspects of their "game" so far, all the proposed lineup changes I see around here are just like rearranging the deck chairs you know where. This team can't hit. Now it seems they can't pitch much either. At least take two out of three from KC.

slavko
05-05-2010, 11:25 AM
My $0.02:


While I'm bitching about everything, last night was my 1st trip to the ballpark this year..they should be embarassed to have worn out/paint peeling pinwheels, etc. from the 2003 All Star game (from SEVEN years ago) still untouched. And the random collection of various scoreboards to get information (obstructed from many viewpoints in the park), is pathetic.




Our over all defense sucks and won't support this pitching staff. Our team is a mish mash. It won't work. Wait until next year.

Team's a mish mash, ballpark's a mish mash....Do we have room for a Toyota sign?

Teahen can't play 3B. Not even as a sub.

Hegewisch
05-05-2010, 11:36 AM
I was at the game. The only fun thing was our tailgate. My comment on this team so far is simple: ***!?!

soltrain21
05-05-2010, 11:44 AM
See you there Friday!!!!

:anon:

Beth seems pretty excited to go. I tried to talk her out of that excitement.

LoveYourSuit
05-05-2010, 11:55 AM
I was at the game. The only fun thing was our tailgate. My comment on this team so far is simple: ***!?!


I don't think too many folks are having fun watching this team in person.

I'm scared for the financials of this team if this keeps up. 17K on a very nice night is not good. How many of those were "no shows" or 1/2 price ticketmaster tickets?


Not good.

WhiteSox1989
05-05-2010, 12:12 PM
I don't think too many folks are having fun watching this team in person.

I'm scared for the financials of this team if this keeps up. 17K on a very nice night is not good. How many of those were "no shows" or 1/2 price ticketmaster tickets?


Not good.
Yeah. I'm already regretting purchasing tickets for this weekend. Only good thing is it's suppose to be nice out.

doublem23
05-05-2010, 12:12 PM
I'm scared for the financials of this team if this keeps up. 17K on a very nice night is not good. How many of those were "no shows" or 1/2 price ticketmaster tickets?

Royals games in early May never draw well, even if the team is clicking and it's nice as **** out, though 17 K is low, attendance is down all over MLB right now.

GoGoCrede
05-05-2010, 12:14 PM
I don't think too many folks are having fun watching this team in person.

I'm scared for the financials of this team if this keeps up. 17K on a very nice night is not good. How many of those were "no shows" or 1/2 price ticketmaster tickets?


Not good.

I, for one, was upset that there's going to be a Mother-Son night this weekend and not a Mother-Daughter one. :tongue: Half-teal.

Jerko
05-05-2010, 12:21 PM
Royals games in early May never draw well, even if the team is clicking and it's nice as **** out, though 17 K is low, attendance is down all over MLB right now.

Generally that is true, but the night of "when fans attack #2" was a nice night, early in the season, and against the Royals, and IIRC the Sox were woefully understaffed security-wise because they were caught with their pants down due to a HUGE walk-up. Then again, the Royals were off to a rare hot start that year. I think the crowd last night is going to be the norm unless they start winning, or unless Bos, NYY, or CHC are in town.

Lip Man 1
05-05-2010, 12:34 PM
Love:

Regarding attendance. I got this from one of the beat writers:

"It was a gorgeous night, one of the rare games where the windows were open in the press box. Your posters aren't lying about the actual head count. I think you'll see more rabbits trying to be pulled out of their hats, such as the Justin Bieber first pitch ploy.

You nailed it about being between a rock and a hard place, especially since they have several unproductive veterans. As John Paxson loves to tell Dave Kaplan, how can you trade $1 when you're only getting 50 cents back?

I see some ugly times ahead this season. Might be time for me to check in with Doug Laumann."

Take it for what it may be worth.

Lip

Carolina Kenny
05-05-2010, 12:46 PM
Only Kenny can save us with a deal out of the blue. Other than that I see more ugly times a comin.

I hold out hope, I want to have a exciting summer, but it doesn't look that way now.

All I see is trades of anyone tradeable of value. Blowing this thing up and start over.

I've seen this act way too many times before. I have been a fan since 1958. You just know when the year will suck. We have got no mojo. Dying, dead, kaput and as ugly as a empty ballpark.

We don't even have that exciting young prospect in the minors to look forward to. We don't have anyone to capture the imagination of the fans. We may finish below KC.

LoveYourSuit
05-05-2010, 12:47 PM
Love:

Regarding attendance. I got this from one of the beat writers:

"It was a gorgeous night, one of the rare games where the windows were open in the press box. Your posters aren't lying about the actual head count. I think you'll see more rabbits trying to be pulled out of their hats, such as the Justin Bieber first pitch ploy.

You nailed it about being between a rock and a hard place, especially since they have several unproductive veterans. As John Paxson loves to tell Dave Kaplan, how can you trade $1 when you're only getting 50 cents back?

I see some ugly times ahead this season. Might be time for me to check in with Doug Laumann."

Take it for what it may be worth.

Lip


I don't understand how Brooks Boyer during Sox Fest was thumping his chest saying that ticket sales were way up and all was good.

GoGoCrede
05-05-2010, 12:48 PM
I don't understand how Brooks Boyer during Sox Fest was thumping his chest saying that ticket sales were way up and all was good.

I know what you're saying, but did you really expect Boyer to be the buzzkill of Soxfest 2010 and tell everyone how bad ticket sales really were?

Paulwny
05-05-2010, 12:51 PM
Love the Sox, hate this team.

Post of the YEAR !!!!!!!!!


If we lose tonight to the ****ty Royals, Ozzie and Walker have to go.
Something has to be done to shake these guys up

Oz is rememorizing his annual, " If Kenny or Jerry don't think I'm doing a good job they can fire me, I can't help it if players don't perform, I don't need this ****, yada,yada,yada, speech.

canOcorn
05-05-2010, 12:54 PM
Maybe you can explain what you meant by "real teams"? Because I don't see how that can be interpreted as anything other than "Kansas City doesn't count because they suck". Even after someone pointed out that KC was hitting well, you wrote it off with "Check back with me after another month", as if the first month doesn't count. After the first month, Detroit, New York, Boston and Minnesota are the only teams with a better average in the AL. Do they have to report to you after another month, too, or do they get the credit in advance because they aren't Kansas City?

I'm not suggesting Peavy's success was due to the complete ineptitude of the Royals, but this myth that they're some good offense is just that, a myth. There's only 4 teams in the AL that have scored fewer runs. Hell, we're only two runs behind and we have completely sucked.

I keep seeing people say we cannot possibly hit this bad, as a team, all season. I agree. The Royals started the season out hitting the **** out of the ball. Have you looked at what they've done lately? 3rd lowest runs scored and 2nd lowest average over their last 7 games. They're trending back toward their norm.

And for the record, I didn't take CG's comment to mean the sole reason for Peavy's success was that it came against the Royals.

wassagstdu
05-05-2010, 12:54 PM
Good game by Pods and Getz.

Win the series tonight.

LoveYourSuit
05-05-2010, 12:55 PM
Oz is rememorizing his annual, " If Kenny or Jerry don't think I'm doing a good job they can fire me, I can't help it if players don't perform, I don't need this ****, yada,yada,yada, speech.


Yeah, that **** gets old quick.

I see where his ass-hat son gets it from.

KMcMahon817
05-05-2010, 01:08 PM
This team is expensively-assembled, yet incomplete. What's worse is that many of the recent moves [Rios/Peavey/Teahen/Pierre] are expensive and have stripped the team of DESPERATELY-needed financial flexibility. There are too many overpaid underachievers in this team, many of whom are untradeable due to their obese contracts.

But then, this is what happens when you stupidly let the manager have too much input into the makeup of the roster.

Pierre and Teahen are hardly expensive. They make up less than 7% of the teams payroll.

Lip Man 1
05-05-2010, 01:27 PM
McMahon:

The Sox have the 5th highest payroll in the American League. Do you think they are getting their money's worth? There seems to be three or four guys getting the bulk of the salaries (when added together) and the rest of the team is made up of cast off's, injured guys trying to come back, guys on the downsides of their careers etc. I think that was the point Khan was making. I also think he's right.

The Sox like in 2009 have to many players on the roster they are "gambling" / "hoping" on.

Hope doesn't win games or championships...talent does.

Lip

WhiteSox5187
05-05-2010, 01:29 PM
McMahon:

The Sox have the 5th highest payroll in the American League. Do you think they are getting their money's worth? There seems to be three or four guys getting the bulk of the salaries (when added together) and the rest of the team is made up of cast off's, injured guys trying to come back, guys on the downsides of their careers etc. I think that was the point Khan was making. I also think he's right.

The Sox like in 2009 have to many players on the roster they are "gambling" / "hoping" on.

Hope doesn't win games or championships...talent does.

Lip

It's foolish to criticize the Sox over not spending money (I know that that is not your point here), however they do spend money foolishly.

LoveYourSuit
05-05-2010, 01:43 PM
It's foolish to criticize the Sox over not spending money (I know that that is not your point here), however they do spend money foolishly.


They have become the Chicago Bears.

The Bears take a beating every year by fans calling them cheap when in fact they spend a ton of money for a ton of bad talent.

Sadly, this is what the Sox have become.

Hate to say it, but a good portion of the salary cloggers comes from the folk hero fan favorties Konerko, Buehrle, Jenks, AJ.

The jury is out on Peavy and Rios to see if they are worth their massive contracts.

khan
05-05-2010, 01:47 PM
Pierre and Teahen are hardly expensive. They make up less than 7% of the teams payroll.
For what they give the team, Pierre and Teahen ARE expensive. Having said that:

There are a few things wrong with the team's makeup. As Lip stated better than I could, there are a handful of players' salaries that consume the majority of the payroll:

Buehrle, Peavy, Jenks, Konerko, and Rios. Of these 5, I would argue that only Konerko's performance is exceeding his salary, while Rios' performance is merely meeting his $9.7M salary. [I think Rios' performance looks better when compared to the piles of **** that surround him and Konerko in the lineup.]

Overall, there are too many high-salaried veteran players that are underperforming: Buehrle, Peavy, Jenks, Linebrink, and AJ; Most of these guys are either untradable, or would fetch little-to-nothing in trade.

A lot of the roster is comprised of guys that SHOULD BE bench players: Pierre, Teahen, Kotsay;

Or guys that really aren't good enough to play in MLB: Vizquel, Williams, Castro, and Nix.

In Forbes, they rank MLB teams by Wins/player salary dollars. The SOX were mediocre by this measure in 2009, and look to be craptacular by this measure when this season is over.

russ99
05-05-2010, 01:51 PM
It's foolish to criticize the Sox over not spending money (I know that that is not your point here), however they do spend money foolishly.

Which of the guys making over $5m would you consider being spent "foolishly"?

For reference those guys are Peavy, Buehrle, Rios, Konerko, Jenks and A.J,

It's not the guys with the big salaries costing us, it's trying to fill spots in the middle of the lineup with guys making around $1-2 and that's tied directly to Jerry not setting a competitive offseason budget based on who we already had under contract.

khan
05-05-2010, 01:55 PM
Which of the guys making over $5m would you consider being spent "foolishly"?

For reference those guys are Peavy, Buehrle, Rios, Konerko, Jenks and A.J,

It's not the guys with the big salaries costing us, it's trying to fill spots in the middle of the lineup with guys making around $1-2 and that's tied directly to Jerry not setting a competitive offseason budget based on who we already had under contract.

I actually think it's both. Only Konerko and Rios are meeting/exceeding expectations from the >$5M/yr group.

At the same time, a lot of the low dollar guys [Jones being an exception] simply aren't good enough to play in MLB [NIx/Kotsay/Williams/Vizquel] or are still trying to figure it out. [Quentin/Beckham]

KMcMahon817
05-05-2010, 02:04 PM
McMahon:

The Sox have the 5th highest payroll in the American League. Do you think they are getting their money's worth? There seems to be three or four guys getting the bulk of the salaries (when added together) and the rest of the team is made up of cast off's, injured guys trying to come back, guys on the downsides of their careers etc. I think that was the point Khan was making. I also think he's right.

The Sox like in 2009 have to many players on the roster they are "gambling" / "hoping" on.

Hope doesn't win games or championships...talent does.

Lip

Lip:

All of that you just said had absolutely nothing to do with what I said. I didn't say a word about the talent level or the fact that the Sox spent their money right.

Teahen and Pierre are both getting paid right around their market value by the Sox and are simply not overpaid or expensive.

There are, however, several players on the roster that get paid more than market value.

KMcMahon817
05-05-2010, 02:10 PM
For what they give the team, Pierre and Teahen ARE expensive. Having said that:

There are a few things wrong with the team's makeup. As Lip stated better than I could, there are a handful of players' salaries that consume the majority of the payroll:

Buehrle, Peavy, Jenks, Konerko, and Rios. Of these 5, I would argue that only Konerko's performance is exceeding his salary, while Rios' performance is merely meeting his $9.7M salary. [I think Rios' performance looks better when compared to the piles of **** that surrond him and Konerko in the lineup.]

Overall, there are too many high-salaried veteran players that are underperforming: Buehrle, Peavy, Jenks, Linebrink, and AJ; Most of these guys are either untradable, or would fetch little-to-nothing in trade.

A lot of the roster is comprised of guys that SHOULD BE bench players: Pierre, Teahen, Kotsay;

Or guys that really aren't good enough to play in MLB: Vizquel, Williams, Castro, and Nix.

In Forbes, they rank MLB teams by Wins/player salary dollars. The SOX were mediocre by this measure in 2009, and look to be craptacular by this measure when this season is over.

I agree with most everything you said. I was never refuting it. But a lot of people seem to think Pierre is getting paid a lot of money by the Sox, but really he isn't after what the Dodgers sent in the deal .

I was just pointing out that neither Pierre or Teahen are not crippling the Sox finances. That's it.

khan
05-05-2010, 02:14 PM
I agree with most everything you said. I was never refuting it. But a lot of people seem to think Pierre is getting paid a lot of money by the Sox, but really he isn't after what the Dodgers sent in the deal .

I was just pointing out that neither Pierre or Teahen are not crippling the Sox finances. That's it.

Fair enough. I might agree with you by the end of the season. For the record, Teahen's on $3.75M for this season, while the SOX's share of Pierre's remaining [snicker] $18.5M for 2010 and 2011 is supposedly $8M for the two seasons.

Now, IF Pierre picks up his play, he might be worth $4M/yr. As I type this, Pierre isn't giving this team $400k/yr worth of performance, IMO. For Teahen, $3.75M is closer to what he's giving the team right now.

But, I think both are overpaid to varying degrees.

KMcMahon817
05-05-2010, 02:23 PM
Fair enough. I might agree with you by the end of the season. For the record, Teahen's on $3.75M for this season, while the SOX's share of Pierre's remaining [snicker] $18.5M for 2010 and 2011 is supposedly $8M for the two seasons.

Now, IF Pierre picks up his play, he might be worth $4M/yr. As I type this, Pierre isn't giving this team $400k/yr worth of performance, IMO. For Teahen, $3.75M is closer to what he's giving the team right now.

But, I think both are overpaid to varying degrees.

Through 25 games, you're right, Pierre has been close to worthless.

He has had a great series so far with KC and I hope it is a sign of him figuring it out. I just really like watching him on the basepaths. He works his butt off and it shows. He has shown a glimpse of what exactly he can to an opposing teams defense the past two nights; mostly because he's been on base.

psyclonis
05-05-2010, 02:36 PM
Pierre 8M/2
Teahen 12.5M/3
and when you add:
Kotasy 1.5M/1
Vizquel 1.375M/1

thats 8.125M for 2010 and 23.375M total

Signing/trading for these bozos greatly crippled the Sox as it made Kenny pass on Damon (8M) (lf/dh) and Felipe Lopez (1.2M) (2b) at the end of the off-season...

KMcMahon817
05-05-2010, 02:42 PM
Pierre 8M/2
Teahen 12.5M/3
and when you add:
Kotasy 1.5M/1
Vizquel 1.375M/1

thats 8.125M for 2010 and 23.375M total

Signing/trading for these bozos greatly crippled the Sox as it made Kenny pass on Damon (8M) (lf/dh) and Felipe Lopez (1.2M) (2b) at the end of the off-season...

That also accounts for 4 players vs. 1. Those three other players are going to get paid some amount of money, probably similar to Kotsay and Vizquel's contract. So really, no it wouldn't have made any difference. Maybe not acquiring Teahen would have given Kenny the extra few million to get Damon, but who knows. None of that matters now anyway.

And I don't think Kenny had any interest in Felipe Lopez. The guy's not all there and he's hurt anyway.

Carolina Kenny
05-05-2010, 02:59 PM
McMahon:

The Sox have the 5th highest payroll in the American League. Do you think they are getting their money's worth? There seems to be three or four guys getting the bulk of the salaries (when added together) and the rest of the team is made up of cast off's, injured guys trying to come back, guys on the downsides of their careers etc. I think that was the point Khan was making. I also think he's right.

The Sox like in 2009 have to many players on the roster they are "gambling" / "hoping" on.

Hope doesn't win games or championships...talent does.

Lip

In this case I think you have hit the nail right on the head. The Sox are due for a massive overhaul. 2005 is getting farther back in the rear view mirror every day.

khan
05-05-2010, 03:00 PM
Pierre 8M/2
Teahen 12.5M/3
and when you add:
Kotasy 1.5M/1
Vizquel 1.375M/1

thats 8.125M for 2010 and 23.375M total

Signing/trading for these bozos greatly crippled the Sox as it made Kenny pass on Damon (8M) (lf/dh) and Felipe Lopez (1.2M) (2b) at the end of the off-season...
I had it as $14M/3 for Teahen. I'll admit that it's not a big difference.

The truly injurious issue with Vizquel being on the team is that he really doesn't have a role. He can't hit any more, though I'll admit that he could probably field his position until he turns 55 or 60. If he's supposed to be a mentor/coach to Ramirez and Beckham, then why doesn't he retire, and coach with the SOX?

The problem with Kotsay is that Ozzie fell in love with this guy, and believes him to be the LH bat that this team needs. Unfortunately, that leads Ozzie to stupidly bat a true bench player 3rd on occasion.


So even if Vizquel/Kotsay aren't taking up much in real dollars, they do [unneccesarily] take up 2 roster spots, without any real purpose in the roster.

Carolina Kenny
05-05-2010, 03:08 PM
I had it as $14M/3 for Teahen. I'll admit that it's not a big difference.

The truly injurious issue with Vizquel being on the team is that he really doesn't have a role. He can't hit any more, though I'll admit that he could probably field his position until he turns 55 or 60. If he's supposed to be a mentor/coach to Ramirez and Beckham, then why doesn't he retire, and coach with the SOX?

The problem with Kotsay is that Ozzie fell in love with this guy, and believes him to be the LH bat that this team needs. Unfortunately, that leads Ozzie to stupidly bat a true bench player 3rd on occasion.


So even if Vizquel/Kotsay aren't taking up much in real dollars, they do [unneccesarily] take up 2 roster spots, without any real purpose in the roster.

We batted AJ high up in the order on seveal occasions last year. We just don't have enough high quality LH bats in our lineup. Both AJ and Kotsay are not high quality LH bats. We lack a stud. A bunch of crap just doesn't do it no matter how the Sox try to spin it.

jabrch
05-05-2010, 03:14 PM
In this case I think you have hit the nail right on the head. The Sox are due for a massive overhaul. 2005 is getting farther back in the rear view mirror every day.

Objects in the rear view mirror may be closer than they appear.


To me, it feels like just yesterday.

Nellie_Fox
05-05-2010, 03:44 PM
Objects in the rear view mirror may be closer than they appear.


To me, it feels like just yesterday.I think a lot of the perspective on this has to do with the age of the perceiver. If you're 20 years old, 2005 seems like quite a while ago. When you're my age, it's a blip in time.

Slappy
05-05-2010, 03:48 PM
I had it as $14M/3 for Teahen. I'll admit that it's not a big difference.

The truly injurious issue with Vizquel being on the team is that he really doesn't have a role. He can't hit any more, though I'll admit that he could probably field his position until he turns 55 or 60. If he's supposed to be a mentor/coach to Ramirez and Beckham, then why doesn't he retire, and coach with the SOX?

The problem with Kotsay is that Ozzie fell in love with this guy, and believes him to be the LH bat that this team needs. Unfortunately, that leads Ozzie to stupidly bat a true bench player 3rd on occasion.


So even if Vizquel/Kotsay aren't taking up much in real dollars, they do [unneccesarily] take up 2 roster spots, without any real purpose in the roster.

That's the biggest tragedy of this whole thing. I'm so sick of Ozzie and this team it hurts. :whiner:

What can be done with any of those guys at this point or going forward? Who will want to take them if the Sox decide to move on? I guess they'll just have to retire, hopefully in the next month or so.

Tragg
05-05-2010, 03:53 PM
Pierre 8M/2
Teahen 12.5M/3
and when you add:
Kotasy 1.5M/1
Vizquel 1.375M/1

thats 8.125M for 2010 and 23.375M total

Signing/trading for these bozos greatly crippled the Sox as it made Kenny pass on Damon (8M) (lf/dh) and Felipe Lopez (1.2M) (2b) at the end of the off-season...
Great post. Oh sure, the Sox would have to replace those players with some money; but the reality is that Sox spend signficant money on talent that is available for league minimums. But they are veterans, won't threaten the pristine clubhouse or any tender sensibilities (and if they do, they'll be dumped quickly).

Carneyman14
05-05-2010, 04:46 PM
has KC given us a good player in the past 10 years? Why do we trade with them?

GoGoCrede
05-05-2010, 04:48 PM
has KC given us a good player in the past 10 years? Why do we trade with them?

:dye:
Hey there!

I know we didn't get him directly from KC, but still.

theamb
05-05-2010, 05:36 PM
In this case I think you have hit the nail right on the head. The Sox are due for a massive overhaul. 2005 is getting farther back in the rear view mirror every day.

2005 was put in the past the minute the 2006 season started.


has KC given us a good player in the past 10 years? Why do we trade with them?

Just wait until Kenny takes Kyle Farnsworth off the Royals hands in a couple months!

Tragg
05-05-2010, 07:21 PM
has KC given us a good player in the past 10 years? Why do we trade with them?

They have been the worst franchise in the AL for at least the last 10 years. That may be why so many of their players are bad players.

PhillipsBubba
05-05-2010, 07:44 PM
Yeah, that **** gets old quick.

I see where his ass-hat son gets it from.

Combine that with his cerebral comments regarding illegal immigration and you've got quite a statesman!

http://thewordmaven.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/clown.jpg

LoveYourSuit
05-05-2010, 08:03 PM
I think a lot of the perspective on this has to do with the age of the perceiver. If you're 20 years old, 2005 seems like quite a while ago. When you're my age, it's a blip in time.


To me it has to do with my wallet.