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CLUBHOUSE KID
05-02-2010, 09:58 PM
Just wondering....What is with all the hatred towards him?

Frontman
05-02-2010, 10:00 PM
You mean besides being the Guy Fieri of MLB? Or his crying that he didn't get his way when batting dang near .200 in 2008?

VMSNS
05-02-2010, 10:01 PM
He sucks.

GoGoCrede
05-02-2010, 10:03 PM
He was a sulky baby when he got benched at the end of 2008 when he was slumping. At one point when he reached base in Minny and was pinch ran for. He stormed into the clubhouse. Didn't even stay to watch the end of the game.

He's obnoxious with all his Mr Enthusiatic stuff. He needs to take it down a notch or ten. And when he's slumping, boy, that enthusiasm for the game goes away in a hurry.

His shaving cream pie antics got really old, and it seemed as though some of the other players got sick of it too.

I think he made a few parting comments when he got traded, but don't quote me on that because I'm not sure.

His showboating yesterday was pretty annoying, and AJ mocked him for doing it.

I will say, though, that his charity work is extensive and he must be commended for that.

CLUBHOUSE KID
05-02-2010, 10:03 PM
Yeah he gets wild but I was at NYY OD last year and people loved him. He seems to be the same type of player every year/team he don't seem that bad. I read posts here before talking about how he looks at his gram before he swings. Why make fun of that is beyond me and wrong IMHO.

GoGoCrede
05-02-2010, 10:04 PM
Yeah he gets wild but I was at NYY OD last year and people loved him. He seems to be the same type of player every year/team he don't seem that bad. i read posts here before talking about how he looks at his gram before he swings. Why make fun of that is beyond me and wrong IMHO.

:?: Who made fun of it? From what I can recall, the only ones who made fun of it were the ones who didn't know he did it in honor of his grandmother.

CLUBHOUSE KID
05-02-2010, 10:05 PM
:?: Who made fun of it? From what I can recall, the only ones who made fun of it were the ones who didn't know he did it in honor of his grandmother.

It was something like this...Why does he look up? Well because he looks at his gram who has passed. Okay well she's not up there.

GoGoCrede
05-02-2010, 10:06 PM
It was something like this...Why does he look up? Well because he looks at his gram who has passed. Okay well she's not up there.

Ah, okay. That is lame.

CLUBHOUSE KID
05-02-2010, 10:07 PM
Ah, okay. That is lame.

Yeah it is. I'm close to my gram and this would kill me to see people say that. You hate a player okay but c'mon.

Coops4Aces
05-02-2010, 10:09 PM
It was something like this...Why does he look up? Well because he looks at his gram who has passed. Okay well she's not up there.

So one idiot said that and you make a broad generalization based on that? Swisher is a clown and a baby. I loved his passion at the beginning of the season, but his antics overshadowed it and wore me out.

KMcMahon817
05-02-2010, 10:10 PM
So one idiot said that and you make a broad generalization based on that? Swisher is a clown and a baby. I loved his passion at the beginning of the season, but his antics overshadowed it and wore me out.

Agreed.

Lip Man 1
05-02-2010, 10:13 PM
Kid:

Swisher was a 'me first' player with a ****ty attitude. When the Sox needed him the most down the stretch in 2008 he was nowhere to be found. I don't care how talented he may be, you don't need that garbage in a clubhouse.

Good riddance.

Lip

doublem23
05-02-2010, 10:44 PM
Kid:

Swisher was a 'me first' player with a ****ty attitude. When the Sox needed him the most down the stretch in 2008 he was nowhere to be found. I don't care how talented he may be, you don't need that garbage in a clubhouse.

Good riddance.

Lip

That would be after they replaced him with an aging veteran who played a position we already were overcrowded in?

Swisher was a crybaby who had a piss poor performance in his one and done year with the Sox, but we still would have better off keeping him and dealing Dye after 2008.

Slappy
05-02-2010, 11:17 PM
I loved his passion at the beginning of the season, but his antics overshadowed it

I felt much the same way. Although, I don't really know what his antics were. I just remember his mood being affected, which is what my view was limited to, having only the games on TV to go by. He seemed more down, in general, not mean or anything. I don't think that's his style. But it took me by surprise because he seemed like such an outgoing, fun-loving guy going by those Sox commercials and interviews etc.

I really never understood the Swisher hatred, and I still don't because I never really saw the bad side. I remember when he was slumping bad though that it looked like it definitely affected his mood and demeanor up at the plate. No idea what went on inside the clubhouse, so I can't comment on that.

Could have just been a bad year for the guy, which is what it looks like if you're judging by performance.

I know it's useless hindsight, but I sure wouldn't mind having Uribe and Swisher back if they performed like they have since leaving the Sox. It's a shame, but what can you do.

WhiteSox5187
05-02-2010, 11:19 PM
I think Swisher sealed his fate when Junior mentioned a problem with his swing and Swisher just said "Whatever."

GoGoCrede
05-02-2010, 11:21 PM
I think Swisher sealed his fate when Junior mentioned a problem with his swing and Swisher just said "Whatever."

:?: Please elaborate, I never heard about this!

theamb
05-02-2010, 11:22 PM
Because we gave Swisher up for junk and he might be the best OF on the Sox currently.

Which is a scary thought in general.

Domeshot17
05-02-2010, 11:25 PM
Personally think he got a bad rap here, he just was never a fit. You tell a guy who is a middle of the order hitter who plays 1b or Corner OF to be a lead off man and a CF, it is destined to doom. He tried. He brought his charity over. I think the real thing was, because he wasn't an Ozzie guy, his rope was shorter. He didn't like that.

I think less people would hate him if Kenny didn't get ripped off to high hell for him twice. The value of the prospects we dealt for him could have landed us a massive return then. In terms of talent dealt at the time, we probably gave up more for Swisher then we did for Peavy!

Then we dealt him for a bunch of nothing, and Swisher becomes a solid contributor on a world series team.

hi im skot
05-02-2010, 11:33 PM
Because we gave Swisher up for junk and he might be the best OF on the Sox currently.

Which is a scary thought in general.

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2010/0424/chi_a_rios1x_576.jpg

SephClone89
05-02-2010, 11:36 PM
http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2010/0424/chi_a_rios1x_576.jpg

This, really.

theamb
05-02-2010, 11:48 PM
I'm not yet sold on a Rios resurgence

Slappy
05-02-2010, 11:48 PM
Personally think he got a bad rap here, he just was never a fit. You tell a guy who is a middle of the order hitter who plays 1b or Corner OF to be a lead off man and a CF, it is destined to doom. He tried. He brought his charity over. I think the real thing was, because he wasn't an Ozzie guy, his rope was shorter. He didn't like that.


Makes sense.

What do you mean he wasn't an Ozzie guy, though? Why did they clash? Because Swisher was uncomfortable with being moved around a lot?

doublem23
05-03-2010, 02:19 AM
Personally think he got a bad rap here, he just was never a fit. You tell a guy who is a middle of the order hitter who plays 1b or Corner OF to be a lead off man and a CF, it is destined to doom. He tried. He brought his charity over. I think the real thing was, because he wasn't an Ozzie guy, his rope was shorter. He didn't like that.

I think less people would hate him if Kenny didn't get ripped off to high hell for him twice. The value of the prospects we dealt for him could have landed us a massive return then. In terms of talent dealt at the time, we probably gave up more for Swisher then we did for Peavy!

Then we dealt him for a bunch of nothing, and Swisher becomes a solid contributor on a world series team.

Pretty much spot on. Swisher was acquired to be a corner OF but he was displaced by TCQ's 2008 season, so he was forced into a new position and a new spot in the order. Now, I won't defend him for acting like a baby at the end of the year, but the cards were heavily stacked against him in Chicago. Then the Sox acquired Griffey and further reduced his playing time. I'm not saying Swisher ever deserved to be handed everything while he was here, but his failure here was less a case of him being a bad player (which seems to be the belief of a lot of people around here) and more he never found a home in Chicago. His immediate resurgence with the Yankees should pretty much prove that point, but some folks just don't want to admit that KW made a bad move one year and then compounded that by making another bad move.

Basically, the 2 Swisher moves cost us this:


Gio Gonzalez
Ryan Sweeney
DLS
Kanekoa Texeira

And reaped us this:


Johnny Nunez
Jeff Marquez
Wilson Betemit

Mohoney
05-03-2010, 03:44 AM
Because we gave Swisher up for junk and he might be the best OF on the Sox currently.

Which is a scary thought in general.

It's not scary, it's just wrong. Give me Alex Rios over Nick Swisher any day. He's a much better defender and a much better baserunner.

Mohoney
05-03-2010, 03:45 AM
I'm not yet sold on a Rios resurgence
Are you sold on him being better than Swisher?

WhiteSox1989
05-03-2010, 06:17 AM
http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2010/0424/chi_a_rios1x_576.jpg

Yeah, I'd take him over Nick Swisher any day.

NLaloosh
05-03-2010, 07:20 AM
Yeah, a lot has already been said that is true on both sides.

I have to say that if there has been any team in baseball, in recent years, that could use a high OBP, switch-hitting player with power that can play 1B and all 3 OF positions adequately - it's been the Chicago White Sox.

So, the idea of trading for Swisher was a good one. The Sox gave up a pretty fair amount to get him. It would be nice to have Gio Gonzalez right now and Sweeney's not half bad.

He played well for Oakland for years and he's been pretty good with the Yanks (although that lineup helps). He didn't play as well for the Sox but the Sox did mis-use him and expected more from him than they should have (very common problem with the Sox - see Beckham, G, Quentin, C, etc.)

But, the worst part of the whole situation was when the Sox decided they didn't want him back they frantically unloaded, what appeared to be in baseball, a valuable commodity for absolutely NOTHING!

That hurt. And, there definitely wouldn't be so much bitching about the whole situation from Sox fans if there was some return from the deal that we could all take some pleasure in watching.

CLUBHOUSE KID
05-03-2010, 07:34 AM
Yeah, a lot has already been said that is true on both sides.

I have to say that if there has been any team in baseball, in recent years, that could use a high OBP, switch-hitting player with power that can play 1B and all 3 OF positions adequately - it's been the Chicago White Sox.

So, the idea of trading for Swisher was a good one. The Sox gave up a pretty fair amount to get him. It would be nice to have Gio Gonzalez right now and Sweeney's not half bad.

He played well for Oakland for years and he's been pretty good with the Yanks (although that lineup helps). He didn't play as well for the Sox but the Sox did mis-use him and expected more from him than they should have (very common problem with the Sox - see Beckham, G, Quentin, C, etc.)

But, the worst part of the whole situation was when the Sox decided they didn't want him back they frantically unloaded, what appeared to be in baseball, a valuable commodity for absolutely NOTHING!

That hurt. And, there definitely wouldn't be so much bitching about the whole situation from Sox fans if there was some return from the deal that we could all take some pleasure in watching.

This sounds about right. It's just I it seems like there is so much negativity towards him like he did something real bad to fans personally.

ewokpelts
05-03-2010, 07:35 AM
Just wondering....What is with all the hatred towards him?are you serious? for someone who's an "insider", i'd figure you know why dirty .230 is not popular here, or on any other sox site.

ewokpelts
05-03-2010, 07:37 AM
I think Swisher sealed his fate when Junior mentioned a problem with his swing and Swisher just said "Whatever."
i guess it's ok to brush off a hall of famer.

ewokpelts
05-03-2010, 07:38 AM
Personally think he got a bad rap here, he just was never a fit. You tell a guy who is a middle of the order hitter who plays 1b or Corner OF to be a lead off man and a CF, it is destined to doom. He tried. He brought his charity over. I think the real thing was, because he wasn't an Ozzie guy, his rope was shorter. He didn't like that.

I think less people would hate him if Kenny didn't get ripped off to high hell for him twice. The value of the prospects we dealt for him could have landed us a massive return then. In terms of talent dealt at the time, we probably gave up more for Swisher then we did for Peavy!

Then we dealt him for a bunch of nothing, and Swisher becomes a solid contributor on a world series team.it's not hard to fit in on a team that won 101 games. and is so loaded with talent, no one cares about a $4 million guy.

WhiteSox1989
05-03-2010, 08:05 AM
This sounds about right. It's just I it seems like there is so much negativity towards him like he did something real bad to fans personally.
I dislike him because he's obnoxious, and phony and acted like a big ****ing baby at the end of the season when he was benched because he was under performing.

CLUBHOUSE KID
05-03-2010, 08:17 AM
are you serious? for someone who's an "insider", i'd figure you know why dirty .230 is not popular here, or on any other sox site.

I am aware BUT the extent people take it seems so harsh and BTW he's going good with the Yankees.

asindc
05-03-2010, 08:19 AM
Pretty much spot on. Swisher was acquired to be a corner OF but he was displaced by TCQ's 2008 season, so he was forced into a new position and a new spot in the order. Now, I won't defend him for acting like a baby at the end of the year, but the cards were heavily stacked against him in Chicago. Then the Sox acquired Griffey and further reduced his playing time. I'm not saying Swisher ever deserved to be handed everything while he was here, but his failure here was less a case of him being a bad player (which seems to be the belief of a lot of people around here) and more he never found a home in Chicago. His immediate resurgence with the Yankees should pretty much prove that point, but some folks just don't want to admit that KW made a bad move one year and then compounded that by making another bad move.

Basically, the 2 Swisher moves cost us this:


Gio Gonzalez
Ryan Sweeney
DLS
Kanekoa Texeira
And reaped us this:


Johnny Nunez
Jeff Marquez
Wilson Betemit


I generally agree with most of this, especially the giving up way too much to get him and not getting value for him in return. I also think that's where a lot of animous towards Swisher comes from. I was lukewarm about the trade for him in the first place because I thought the Sox would have to play him out of position, and I hated the trade to the NYY because I knew we would not get good value for him. In essence, we bought high and sold low.

I was at the game on Saturday and asked Yanks fans what they thought of him. The general consensus is that he is a decent player, nothing special. In the Yanks lineup, he does not stand out because they have at least four other guys who will carry the load, and spending $4 million dollars on a "decent, nothing special" OF does not upset them because they have the ring to show for it.

Personally, I don't like Swisher because he pouted about being benched after performing quite badly most of the 2008 season. The seminal Swisher-as-a-Sox moment for me was when he was batting against Tampa in the ALDS and watching a hanging breaker go by for strike three on a 3-2 count and RISP. That AB was a microcosm of his performance as a Sox. I don't hold it against him that we paid so much for that, but I do think he is a preening schmoe.

CLUBHOUSE KID
05-03-2010, 08:21 AM
it's not hard to fit in on a team that won 101 games. and is so loaded with talent, no one cares about a $4 million guy.

He also hit 29 HR and MOST of them were on the road and had some good De plays. He's not bad.

asindc
05-03-2010, 08:22 AM
He also hit 29 HR and MOST of them were on the road and had some good De plays. He's not bad.

The question you originally posed was not whether or not Swisher is a good player, but why Sox fans in particular don't like him.

CLUBHOUSE KID
05-03-2010, 08:39 AM
The question you originally posed was not whether or not Swisher is a good player, but why Sox fans in particular don't like him.

Thanks for the reminder but if you spent less time looking at something like that you would realize the two could have an effect on each other. I think people hate Nick because he didn't perform to their liking and I believe they over-reacted by hoping him bad **** and talking **** about his relationship with his grandma who PASSED FROM BRAIN CANCER.

bigdommer
05-03-2010, 08:43 AM
it's not hard to fit in on a team that won 101 games. and is so loaded with talent, no one cares about a $4 million guy.

Swish makes about $6.85MM this year, and I think he has another arbitration year coming.

I think Swish is a good guy on and off the field, and obviously has some skills. But he is a "moneyball" guy, and his skill set fits a moneyball team. His tantrum in 2008 was very disappointing. You want a guy who wants to play and win, but at the same time, he needed to look in the mirror and wasn't willing to do that.

Craig Grebeck
05-03-2010, 08:44 AM
Dude, what's your deal? There are douchebags in every park. Some of them pick on Swisher, big deal. People say mean, stupid **** in every day life.

Myself, I don't like the frat-boy attitude, but I wish he was still on the team.

Craig Grebeck
05-03-2010, 08:45 AM
Swish makes about $6.85MM this year, and I think he has another arbitration year coming.

I think Swish is a good guy on and off the field, and obviously has some skills. But he is a "moneyball" guy, and his skill set fits a moneyball team. His tantrum in 2008 was very disappointing. You want a guy who wants to play and win, but at the same time, he needed to look in the mirror and wasn't willing to do that.
Moneyball isn't a static definition. A "moneyball" guy these days is pretty fast and plays good defense. He was a "moneyball" guy in the early 2000s when the market vastly undervalued high OBP players. Now, the market has over-adjusted itself and overvalues said players -- so Beane goes after fast guys who play good defense.

asindc
05-03-2010, 08:45 AM
Thanks for the reminder but if you spent less time looking at something like that you would realize the two could have an effect on each other. I think people hate Nick because he didn't perform to their liking and I believe they over-reacted by hoping him bad **** and talking **** about his relationship with his grandma who PASSED FROM BRAIN CANCER.

As other posters have already noted, you are taking one incident with one fan and applying it to every Sox fan who does not like Swisher, and in the process assuming that the fan in particular and Sox fans in general knew what that gesture meant. It is insulting and you should stop it. As for "hoping him bad," I only root against him because he plays for an opposing team. Otherwise, I don't pay any attention to what he does. For the sake of consistency, I wonder why you don't pose the same question about Javier Vazquez, Damaso Marte, and Boone Logan.

CLUBHOUSE KID
05-03-2010, 08:46 AM
Dude, what's your deal? There are douchebags in every park. Some of them pick on Swisher, big deal. People say mean, stupid **** in every day life.

Myself, I don't like the frat-boy attitude, but I wish he was still on the team.

True but it seems like people direct a lot to Swisher and less towards others and not just oh he's not hitting or bad de but personal stuff. Sorry that this bothers me.

CLUBHOUSE KID
05-03-2010, 08:48 AM
As other posters have already noted, you are taking one incident with one fan and applying it to every Sox fan who does not like Swisher, and in the process assuming that the fan in particular and Sox fans in general knew what that gesture meant. It is insulting and you should stop it. As for "hoping him bad," I only root against him because he plays for an opposing team. Otherwise, I don't play any attention to what he does. For the sake of consistency, I wonder why you don't pose the same question about Javier Vazquez, Damaso Marte, and Boone Logan.

Okay...BUT I have not heard people say those same things towards those other players except they blow and that's it. People go out of there way, it seems, to hate Swisher. Like oh I am so glad AJ mocked him!

Craig Grebeck
05-03-2010, 08:48 AM
True but it seems like people direct a lot to Swisher and less towards others and not just oh he's not hitting or bad de but personal stuff. Sorry that this bothers me.
So they don't like him? Okay. Some people do that. It's true. Why rant about it here? Idiots are idiots.

Craig Grebeck
05-03-2010, 08:49 AM
Okay...BUT I have not heard people say those same things towards those other players except they blow and that's it. People go out of there way, it seems, to hate Swisher. Like oh I am so glad AJ mocked him!
And I think AJ is a douche mocking another douche. Whoopty-doo. Take issue with those statements when they're said.

asindc
05-03-2010, 08:51 AM
Okay...BUT I have not heard people say those same things towards those other players except they blow and that's it. People go out of there way, it seems, to hate Swisher. Like oh I am so glad AJ mocked him!

If you haven't noticed the venom spewed towards Vazquez on this forum, then you really haven't been paying attention.

WhiteSox1989
05-03-2010, 08:53 AM
Okay...BUT I have not heard people say those same things towards those other players except they blow and that's it. People go out of there way, it seems, to hate Swisher. Like oh I am so glad AJ mocked him!
Yeah, I love AJ even more for that. :smile:

CLUBHOUSE KID
05-03-2010, 08:54 AM
And I think AJ is a douche mocking another douche. Whoopty-doo. Take issue with those statements when they're said.

Swish/AJ are my 2 faves but I don't get people supporting it. Whatever.

CLUBHOUSE KID
05-03-2010, 08:55 AM
Yeah, I love AJ even more for that. :smile:

Exactly.

WhiteSox1989
05-03-2010, 08:56 AM
Exactly.
....

Craig Grebeck
05-03-2010, 08:57 AM
Swish/AJ are my 2 faves but I don't get people supporting it. Whatever.
Here's a simple breakdown: most Sox fans like AJ, most hate Swish; AJ mock Swish EVERYBODY HAPPPPPPPPPPYYYYYY.

I get it -- if I liked AJ I probably would have thought it was awesome.

Exactly.
He mocked him. So?

CLUBHOUSE KID
05-03-2010, 09:03 AM
I'll just try and avoid posting in this thread seeing as nobody cares and all has similar ideas. The idea that Swish cant be a whatever is bad but it's okay for AJ to be one is okay. Whatever.

Craig Grebeck
05-03-2010, 09:04 AM
I'll just try and avoid posting in this thread seeing as nobody cares and all has similar ideas. The idea that Swish cant be a whatever is bad but it's okay for AJ to be one is okay. Whatever.
I have no idea what you're saying. Speak words.

jdm2662
05-03-2010, 09:06 AM
I'm the Nick Swisher of my bowling team. I'm that really cool guy that gets to hang out with awesome bowlers. My one friend averaged 219 this season, highest in the league. Other friend averaged 189, pretty damn good. I got to high five them, cheer them on, was always first to be heard, and was that cool guy overall to hang out with. And, yes, I'm a rather crappy bowler (although I did finish the season with 153, my personal best...). I was especially brutal down the stretch when the team needed a win. Yep, I'm Nick Swisher baby!

To note, Swisher was also brutal in the playoffs last year, and even got benched for a backup IF in the World Series. He just gets to play on a loaded lineup.

WhiteSox1989
05-03-2010, 09:07 AM
I'll just try and avoid posting in this thread seeing as nobody cares and all has similar ideas. The idea that Swish cant be a whatever is bad but it's okay for AJ to be one is okay. Whatever.
http://images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/10400000/Michael-What-the-office-10400786-400-226.gif

GoGoCrede
05-03-2010, 09:20 AM
http://images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/10400000/Michael-What-the-office-10400786-400-226.gif


Win. Thread's taken a weird turn.

GoGoCrede
05-03-2010, 09:22 AM
I'll just try and avoid posting in this thread seeing as nobody cares and all has similar ideas. The idea that Swish cant be a whatever is bad but it's okay for AJ to be one is okay. Whatever.

I thought it was okay that AJ mocked him because AJ's on my team. If AJ was on a different team and mocked one of the Sox players, I'd be annoyed. Others may feel differently. Being biased is part of the fandom. :smile:

WhiteSox5187
05-03-2010, 09:38 AM
:?: Please elaborate, I never heard about this!

Mark Gonzalez mentioned it in an interview with Lip.

WhiteSoxFTW
05-03-2010, 09:51 AM
I'll just try and avoid posting in this thread seeing as nobody cares and all has similar ideas. The idea that Swish cant be a whatever is bad but it's okay for AJ to be one is okay. Whatever.

Wow. You must be selectively reading this thread. We specifically here at WSI have said we don't like Nick Swisher because of his attitude AFTER his struggles down the stretch in 2008. We agree that it might not be 100% his fault that he struggled (he was played out of position/expected to leadoff/etc.), but he did not handle the situation like a professional baseball player. He pouted like a baby down the stretch and when a future hall of famer, Ken Griffey, Jr., offered him advice to help him get out of his hitting funk, he just blew him off. THAT is why White Sox fans show animosity towards Nick Swisher. We care about the actual results on the field, and in that regard, Swisher was greatly lacking.

Now if you personally take issue with "fans" mocking him for paying tribute to his grandmother, I understand. I have not seen this, but I believe you. But you CANNOT make a blanket statement about White Sox fans because of an issue with a few individuals. Notice how I put quotes around the word fans earlier. I did so because I believe no real White Sox fan would condone that sort of behavior. And, definitely no one here at WSI.

Lastly, I didn't see AJ mocking Swisher, but I'd guess AJ was mocking Swisher's showboating attitudes (the way he fist pumps for home runs, etc.). You know how much Sox fans enjoy AJ's antics. We do so because he is on OUR team. It's just AJ being AJ.

ewokpelts
05-03-2010, 10:00 AM
Swish makes about $6.85MM this year, and I think he has another arbitration year coming.

I think Swish is a good guy on and off the field, and obviously has some skills. But he is a "moneyball" guy, and his skill set fits a moneyball team. His tantrum in 2008 was very disappointing. You want a guy who wants to play and win, but at the same time, he needed to look in the mirror and wasn't willing to do that.no arb. oakland bought his arbitration years with the deal they signed him to back in 07

doublem23
05-03-2010, 10:02 AM
Okay...BUT I have not heard people say those same things towards those other players except they blow and that's it. People go out of there way, it seems, to hate Swisher. Like oh I am so glad AJ mocked him!

I personally go out of my way to hate Javier Vazquez.

Tragg
05-03-2010, 10:11 AM
I'm glad AJ mocked him, because he mocked us. Player to player, fine.

I don't like him because Williams squandered our top 2 pitching prospects and 3 of our top 7 prospects on him; and then held a fire sale to get rid of him (which happens far too often because players don't have the right "personality") and received junk in return.
NOw Swisher didn't trade himself, so it's unfair to blame him....but I still don't like him.

Coops4Aces
05-03-2010, 10:12 AM
Is Clubhouse Kid a relative of Nick Swisher or something?

asindc
05-03-2010, 10:16 AM
Is Clubhouse Kid a relative of Nick Swisher or something?

:D:

Come to think of it, perhaps that is a legitimate question to ask...

CLR01
05-03-2010, 10:37 AM
Win. Thread's taken a weird turn.

Creepy is the word I would have used.

Smokey Burg
05-03-2010, 11:18 AM
Not sure if I can say that I hate him, but his actions (pouting, sulking, & whining) at the end of the 2008 season were certainly less than desirable and intolerable. I just looked at his stats and he appears to be an average ball player. He was definitely below average when he was here. I think he is going to have a career similiar to his dad, good enough to hang around for 10 - 12 years with an occasional game that he does something spectacular. A favorite comment by a friend of mine was "Even a blind pig can find an acorn." He'll probably be able to stay in MLB as long as he can have a few "acorn" moments per season,

Nellie_Fox
05-03-2010, 11:34 AM
Is Clubhouse Kid a relative of Nick Swisher or something?Maybe Clubhouse Kid IS Nick Swisher!

GoGoCrede
05-03-2010, 11:36 AM
Maybe Clubhouse Kid IS Nick Swisher!

He'd have used a lot more exclamation points if he was.

Lip Man 1
05-03-2010, 11:42 AM
Crede:

Here you go, from my interview with Gonzo:

ML: There was a lot of speculation about why some players were unloaded. Can you clear those rumors up for us?

MG: “Nick Swisher had some issues coming to the Sox and like I said earlier the Sox thought they were getting the player they saw in Oakland. His stance caused some issues and people tried to get his attention to it. Ken Griffey when he came to the Sox, made a suggestion to him for example and he just disregarded it.”

asindc
05-03-2010, 11:44 AM
He'd have used a lot more exclamation points if he was.

Win.

GoGoCrede
05-03-2010, 11:45 AM
Crede:

Here you go, from my interview with Gonzo:

ML: There was a lot of speculation about why some players were unloaded. Can you clear those rumors up for us?

MG: “Nick Swisher had some issues coming to the Sox and like I said earlier the Sox thought they were getting the player they saw in Oakland. His stance caused some issues and people tried to get his attention to it. Ken Griffey when he came to the Sox, made a suggestion to him for example and he just disregarded it.”

That's pretty unfortunate. I know Swisher takes a lot of advice from his dad when it comes to baseball mechanics, but still. I'd kill for Griffey to acknowledge my existence.

PatK
05-03-2010, 12:15 PM
I'd like to add one thing that people really haven't mentioned.

That is, when Nick came here, he was immediately trotted out front and center and forced down our throats as the new face of the franchise, without ever having played a single game for the Sox.

For the first couple of months, he was the go-to guy for every reporter. I got sick of seeing him, especially when he really struggled.

The Immigrant
05-03-2010, 12:28 PM
That is, when Nick came here, he was immediately trotted out front and center and forced down our throats as the new face of the franchise, without ever having played a single game for the Sox.

Swisher with the worm, I can't stand it!

Everytime I remember that hideous commercial, I get an image of Marquez/Nunez/Betemit in my head. Then I need a drink.

Bobby Thigpen
05-03-2010, 12:32 PM
The Sox have a pretty good track record as far as signing/acquiring decent human beings to their team. At least as far as averages for MLB teams doing so goes.

Dirty 30 was one of their big misses.

WizardsofOzzie
05-03-2010, 12:34 PM
I personally go out of my way to hate Javier Vazquez.
X2

Okay...BUT I have not heard people say those same things towards those other players except they blow and that's it. People go out of there way, it seems, to hate Swisher. Like oh I am so glad AJ mocked him!
Rob Mackowiak, Mike McDougal, and Scott Linebrink are just a few on my list.

Bobby Thigpen
05-03-2010, 12:36 PM
I personally go out of my way to hate Javier Vazquez.
I wouldn't say I go out of my way to do it, but I certainly use every opportunity that presents itself.

TDog
05-03-2010, 12:38 PM
That's pretty unfortunate. I know Swisher takes a lot of advice from his dad when it comes to baseball mechanics, but still. I'd kill for Griffey to acknowledge my existence.

It wasn't just a matter of blowing off advice from a future Hall of Famer. It was a matter of blowing off advice from coaches and future Hall of Famers. That was true in Oakland before it was true in Chicago, although it wasn't discussed extensively in the Bay Area media until he was traded.

The A's had Nick Swisher on the trading block. He had been their centerfielder in 2007 after Kotsay went down with back surgery, and they went into 2008 wanting to go in a different direction for the position and didn't see him playing right, left or first. (The A's traded Kotsay as well during that off-season.) The White Sox needed a centerfielder and didn't have luck in signing one. Part of the A's concern was a contract they signed for a player they could see they weren't going to get. The A's were going cheap, and the White Sox were not. The White Sox, however, put too much faith in an optimistic reading of his stats, apparently, and didn't realize what they were getting.

Trading for him was a bad move. Trading three prospects for him was a worse move, because he probably could have been had for less. Although the Swisher mess could have been avoided if another team had as much faith in Swisher as the White Sox did. Dumping him on the Yankees was the best way to cut their losses on a bad contract.

If anyone wants to know why so many White Sox fans hate Nick Swisher, they weren't paying close attention during the 2008 season.

PaleHoser
05-03-2010, 03:04 PM
My simple answer is that my father was a Cub fan who hated Steve Swisher. I'm a Sox fan who hates Nick Swisher. Chip off the old block I guess.

I think he's fraud. As others have stated, he really didn't handle himself too well at the end of 2008.

The whole point-to-the-sky to acknowledge his grandmother is a great story. But he could just as easily point-to-the-sky in the dugout or clubhouse, say a quiet prayer of thanks, etc. But he has to turn what's supposed to be a simple tribute into a "hey, look at me!" moment.

GoGoCrede
05-03-2010, 03:05 PM
The whole point-to-the-sky to acknowledge his grandmother is a great story. But he could just as easily point-to-the-sky in the dugout or clubhouse, say a quiet prayer of thanks, etc. But he has to turn what's supposed to be a simple tribute into a "hey, look at me!" moment.

I'm going to have to defend him here (ugh). Pointing to the sky is much more showy, IMO, than glancing up really quickly before an at-bat. I don't know how many people even notice it.

canOcorn
05-03-2010, 03:21 PM
There's a soft spot in my heart that he basically told Ozzie to go **** himself. That alone cannot make him a complete bad guy.

jonred
05-03-2010, 03:26 PM
I loved his passion at the beginning of the season, but his antics overshadowed it and wore me out.

So when things are going well, it's passion and grit, but when things go south it's antics? Swish is who he is...

russ99
05-03-2010, 03:54 PM
So when things are going well, it's passion and grit, but when things go south it's antics? Swish is who he is...

Good point, but all that bluster and attitude can really irritate people when you don't produce to back it up.

Had Swish gone back to his A's numbers with the Yankees, I'd be willing to jump on the blame Kenny for selling low, but he's really not improved to the level he was before.

Tragg
05-03-2010, 05:12 PM
The last time we had a "clubhouse cancer" we won a division. We had 2 of them in fact. Williams decided to make the clubhouse more pleasant and gave away one of them for scraps and we haven't come close. But it's a happy clubhouse and the eggshell sensibilities aren't offended.

How nice!

Frontman
05-03-2010, 05:13 PM
The last time we had a "clubhouse cancer" we won a division. We had 2 of them in fact. Williams decided to make the clubhouse more pleasant and gave away one of them for scraps and we haven't come close. But it's a happy clubhouse and the eggshell sensibilities aren't offended.

How nice!

Good point; but the 2005 club had someone who didn't believe in dinosaurs. I think we need to find one of those first before getting back to the promised land....

Smokey Burg
05-03-2010, 05:30 PM
Ignores future Hall of famers to take advice from his dad? Steve Swisher was a career .216 hitter who hit over .250 only 2 out of the 8 seasons he was in MLB. Maybe Steve is telling him what he did and advising Nick to do something else. If he is taking baseball advice from his dad, it marks him not only as an average baseball player but as an idiot too! If Ken Griffey Jr. showed me his preferred way of unwrapping an ice cream bar, at least I'd watch and listen.

Slappy
05-03-2010, 07:04 PM
Swisher sucked for a year here and we gave him the boot. Now he is succeeding with the Yankees and outplaying 2/3's of our current outfield.

I understand if you want to hate the guy, but honestly, the only reason to hate him that makes sense to me is the players we gave up to get him.

This thing about disregarding advice from Griffey is merely damage control by the organization. Pure drama designed to deflect attention away from the issue that Swisher is succeeding and most of our players are not. When you're slumping, it really puts you in a bad mood, no? I've never come close to playing pro-ball, but I've been playing baseball my whole life. How much can you really do with a nugget of advice from Griffey? Hey, if all it takes to get out of a slump is a word of advice from Griffey, someone tell this guy to hang it up already and come take Walkers place.

Craig Grebeck
05-03-2010, 07:12 PM
Good point, but all that bluster and attitude can really irritate people when you don't produce to back it up.

Had Swish gone back to his A's numbers with the Yankees, I'd be willing to jump on the blame Kenny for selling low, but he's really not improved to the level he was before.
Try again.

OAK: .251/.361/.464 118 OPS+
NYY: .254/.371/.504 131 OPS+

Coops4Aces
05-03-2010, 11:45 PM
So when things are going well, it's passion and grit, but when things go south it's antics? Swish is who he is...

Wow that's exactly what I didn't say. Swisher's act wore thin, end of story. Besides, he was bad all season.

Craig Grebeck
05-04-2010, 08:04 AM
So, Russ, are you willing to blame Kenny for selling low?

cards press box
05-04-2010, 08:40 AM
Try again.

OAK: .251/.361/.464 118 OPS+
NYY: .254/.371/.504 131 OPS+

Yeah, it's apparent that KW sold low when he dealt Swisher to the Yanks. But, remember, not every deal is going to work out. KW has bought low and received big returns many times. Aaron Miles for Juan Uribe worked out o.k. as did signing Bobby Jenks off the waiver wire. And this year KW signed Andruw Jones to an incentive laden contract. Some people on this board lambasted KW for doing that even though it was a low risk gamble. Jones has been great so far and KW deserves credit for that.

Craig Grebeck
05-04-2010, 10:48 AM
Yeah, it's apparent that KW sold low when he dealt Swisher to the Yanks. But, remember, not every deal is going to work out. KW has bought low and received big returns many times. Aaron Miles for Juan Uribe worked out o.k. as did signing Bobby Jenks off the waiver wire. And this year KW signed Andruw Jones to an incentive laden contract. Some people on this board lambasted KW for doing that even though it was a low risk gamble. Jones has been great so far and KW deserves credit for that.
Of course -- my post was merely a response to a completely false assertion by Russ.

Smokey Burg
05-04-2010, 02:26 PM
Nick Swisher batting .254! Forgive my giddiness! Shades of Ruth, Dimaggio and Mays! It is the first week in May. He is most likely at a high point for the season. My prediction, he will fall flat and finish the season around .220. There is time and plenty of opportunity for it to happen. Craig Grebeck, I am willing to wager a premium draft beverage of your choice at a local establishment that Nick Swisher's batting average will be lower than .250 by the end of the season. Are you on?

Coops4Aces
05-04-2010, 02:49 PM
Nick Swisher batting .254! Forgive my giddiness! Shades of Ruth, Dimaggio and Mays! It is the first week in May. He is most likely at a high point for the season. My prediction, he will fall flat and finish the season around .220. There is time and plenty of opportunity for it to happen. Craig Grebeck, I am willing to wager a premium draft beverage of your choice at a local establishment that Nick Swisher's batting average will be lower than .250 by the end of the season. Are you on?

He's up to .307

Craig Grebeck
05-04-2010, 02:57 PM
Nick Swisher batting .254! Forgive my giddiness! Shades of Ruth, Dimaggio and Mays! It is the first week in May. He is most likely at a high point for the season. My prediction, he will fall flat and finish the season around .220. There is time and plenty of opportunity for it to happen. Craig Grebeck, I am willing to wager a premium draft beverage of your choice at a local establishment that Nick Swisher's batting average will be lower than .250 by the end of the season. Are you on?
I guess I don't see the point, because he's a valuable player so long as he bats .240.

Bobby Thigpen
05-04-2010, 03:06 PM
I guess I don't see the point, because he's a valuable player so long as he bats .240.
My God saber metrics has really jacked up how people evaluate baseball players.

Craig Grebeck
05-04-2010, 03:09 PM
My God saber metrics has really jacked up how people evaluate baseball players.
Not saber-driven analysis, really. If he avoids outs at a 36-38% clip with a decent slugging percentage, I think he'll be valuable.

TDog
05-04-2010, 03:30 PM
Not saber-driven analysis, really. If he avoids outs at a 36-38% clip with a decent slugging percentage, I think he'll be valuable.

Even if he avoids driving in runs.

Craig Grebeck
05-04-2010, 10:17 PM
Even if he avoids driving in runs.
Do you really want to run around with this again?

Still waiting, Russ, to hear how Swisher isn't improving.

TDog
05-04-2010, 10:31 PM
Do you really want to run around with this again?

Still waiting, Russ, to hear how Swisher isn't improving.

You're right. I don't. I tired of hearing how it's not runs that win games but walks.

Craig Grebeck
05-04-2010, 10:34 PM
You're right. I don't. I tired of hearing how it's not runs that win games but walks.
Again, no one has ever said that. No one. Ever. I'm tired of cardboard cut-out arguments and long-winded lectures that say NOTHING but tired, old baseball cliches and "days of yore" stories about the '81 Athletics.

TDog
05-04-2010, 11:13 PM
Again, no one has ever said that. No one. Ever. I'm tired of cardboard cut-out arguments and long-winded lectures that say NOTHING but tired, old baseball cliches and "days of yore" stories about the '81 Athletics.

Understanding baseball requires a well-developed attention span, I know.

But as I have never until now typed the phrase "cardboard cut-out" or even referenced such a thing that I can recall, I assume you are disgusted not just with me, but with other people who know a thing or two about baseball.

Craig Grebeck
05-05-2010, 12:26 AM
Understanding baseball requires a well-developed attention span, I know.

But as I have never until now typed the phrase "cardboard cut-out" or even referenced such a thing that I can recall, I assume you are disgusted not just with me, but with other people who know a thing or two about baseball.
And yet, despite your well-developed attention span, you refuse to give pause that a batter's avoidance of an out has actual value.

TDog
05-05-2010, 01:13 AM
And yet, despite your well-developed attention span, you refuse to give pause that a batter's avoidance of an out has actual value.

This thread isn't about on-base percentage in theory, although Nick Swisher presents a good example of how it can be an overvalued stat.

It's amazing that A's fans who watched Nick Swisher found that his on-base percentage was less impressive when considered with the fact that he came up with well over 200 runners in scoring position and he drove in less than 40 of them. The coaches didn't like it. The fans didn't like it, especially considering he was usually batting second, third or fourth in the lineup.

White Sox fans in 2008 could empathize with the 2007 A's fans frustrations. Except, they didn't understand when the White Sox traded for Nick Swisher what the A's and their fans had gone through with Swisher because they didn't watch A's games. They only looked at Nick Swisher's stats, and they have been hearing from young statheads how important on-base percentage is. And they weren't prepared to have such a pouting player who wasn't very good at driving in runs.

If you need Nick Swisher to win, he can be a disaster to your team. If you don't need him to win, you win anyway. Hence his ring.

They don't give you points at the end of the game or the end of the season for men left on base. Sadly, Kenny Williams put too much stock in those newfangled stats and didn't realize that Nick Swisher isn't, over the course of a long season, a winner.

Quoting three numbers to assess a player's value, I understand, is less long-winded.

Craig Grebeck
05-05-2010, 01:15 AM
I'll stick with any analyst that doesn't refer to on-base percentage as a "newfangled" statistic.

Thanks, though.

Edit: also, reducing analysis to "need to win" and "don't need to win" is hilarious. Well done.

asindc
05-05-2010, 08:19 AM
I'll stick with any analyst that doesn't refer to on-base percentage as a "newfangled" statistic.

Thanks, though.

Edit: also, reducing analysis to "need to win" and "don't need to win" is hilarious. Well done.

CG, you yourself have acknowedged that OBP has become overvalued in some GMs' minds since every front office has embraced it. I find it to be a valuable tool in evaluating a player, but I think TDog is right on this one. Swisher is the poster child for overvaluing OBP, IMO. What he describes as A's fans' frustrations with him mirror my own and many other Sox fans' frustrations with him. He seemed more concerned with not making an out than actually producing a run, whether by RBI or advancing a baserunner more than one base via a hit.

See my first post in this thread where I discuss a Swisher AB in the 2008 ALDS. The reason it stands out as a seminal Swisher-as-a-Sox moment for me is that it represents everything A's and Sox fans resent about his play. OBP should not be the goal of a hitter, it should be a mean towards the real goal. Witness Pierre's game last night (damn I wish he played like that more often). That is OBP with a purpose.

Craig Grebeck
05-05-2010, 08:22 AM
CG, you yourself have acknowedged that OBP has become overvalued in some GMs' minds since every front office has embraced it. I find it to be a valuable tool in evaluating a player, but I think TDog is right on this one. Swisher is the poster child for overvaluing OBP, IMO. What he describes as A's fans' frustrations with him mirror my own and many other Sox fans' frustrations with him. He seemed more concerned with not making an out than actually producing a run, whether by RBI or advancing a baserunner more than one base via a hit.

See my first post in this thread where I discuss a Swisher AB in the 2008 ALDS. The reason it stands out as a seminal Swisher-as-a-Sox moment for me is that it represents everything A's and Sox fans resent about his play. OBP should not be the goal of a hitter, it should be a mean towards the real goal. Witness Pierre's game last night (damn I wish he played like that more often). That is OBP with a purpose.
Will get to this later, but honest question: do you think Pierre is more valuable than Swisher?

asindc
05-05-2010, 08:24 AM
Will get to this later, but honest question: do you think Pierre is more valuable than Swisher?

No.

Craig Grebeck
05-05-2010, 08:25 AM
No.
Fair enough, will get to your response later, though. Unreasonable amount of work with an unreasonable deadline looming.

Tragg
05-05-2010, 06:13 PM
Yeah, it's apparent that KW sold low when he dealt Swisher to the Yanks. But, remember, not every deal is going to work out.
But that trade with the Yankees was extremely one-sided on its face...it wasn't just a matter of it not working out. Williams got a utility infielder and a couple of AAA pitchers who were nothing close to top prospects. It was an obvious dump. That Betemit stunk was a matter of it not working out; but his ceiling was utility infielder in the first place.
Compare that to what he gave up: our 2 top pitching prospects and Sweeney.
It was a hasty trade and a real bad one.
Even for Vazquez we got basically one top prospect and we had to thro in Logan. That was no steal.

Williams has made some good trades...his best deals have been his small deals.
And Williams hasn't made a real good deal in a long time.