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Lip Man 1
04-28-2010, 11:57 PM
Interesting quote by Ozzie about Beckham: "I think we did something that I don't think we should have been doing, which is put this kid like he's the savior of the White Sox for the next 30 years."

I wonder who Ozzie is referring to in his charge?

Lip

sox1970
04-28-2010, 11:58 PM
http://blogs.suntimes.com/whitesox/2010/04/oz_on_gordon_-_hes_not_the_man.html

Coops4Aces
04-29-2010, 12:02 AM
Then why are you batting him in the 2 hole Ozzie? Bat him 6th or lower and just let him play baseball.

canOcorn
04-29-2010, 12:06 AM
Ozzie's ego spouting crap again. "He'll never be the man of this team", tell that to your boss, dip****.

soltrain21
04-29-2010, 12:16 AM
More stuff on the pile. Fantastic. Shut the hell up Ozzie.

GoGoCrede
04-29-2010, 12:17 AM
I wonder what KW thinks about this.

Sam Spade
04-29-2010, 12:22 AM
http://blogs.suntimes.com/whitesox/2010/04/oz_on_gordon_-_hes_not_the_man.html

This link doesn't work for me. What are you all talking about?

guillensdisciple
04-29-2010, 12:25 AM
But Gordon is an excellent player and comes off rather cool against pressure. Maybe he is just going through a bit of a rut Ozzie? Relax for a second.

Thome_Fan
04-29-2010, 12:29 AM
Ozzie's ego spouting crap again. "He'll never be the man of this team", tell that to your boss, dip****.

He's been tweeting about this too. His point isn't that Beckham isn't talented enough, he's pointing out that he doesn't want to have to rely on any one person in the lineup as THAT guy. He thinks everyone should pull their weight.

Dibbs
04-29-2010, 12:37 AM
Sorry Oz, but Beckham does have a chance to be "the man". You never were "the man" when you were playing, and you certainly are not "the man" as a manager either. A manager is easier to replace than a potential star player.

Ranger
04-29-2010, 02:47 AM
The fact that people are turning this comment into Ozzie being jealous that Beckham has been dubbed a savior is kind of crazy. Come on, guys. All he's saying is that Beckham shouldn't feel like he's got to carry the load. He shouldn't feel like he needs to take over the team and lead them to wins. He's clearly trying to take pressure off of him.

This doesn't have anything to do with Ozzie as a player or the fact that Beckham is getting all this love and somehow taking attention away from Ozzie, or anything ridiculous like that.

It's a manager trying to make sure people don't expect too much from him. He's trying to protect the kid's mental state. If you can't see that, I can't help you.

DrCrawdad
04-29-2010, 02:56 AM
Interesting quote by Ozzie about Beckham: "I think we did something that I don't think we should have been doing, which is put this kid like he's the savior of the White Sox for the next 30 years."

I wonder who Ozzie is referring to in his charge?

Lip


I know it won't happen but Ozzie, ¡Callate!

Slappy
04-29-2010, 03:21 AM
I've been thinking this for the longest time.

Seriously tho, I think they've really mishandled Gordon since last year. It's sad to watch him slump like this, because I just know that all this pressure that's been put on him is the root of his struggles. I hope he can snap out of it.

I think they were so desperate to make their 100 million dollar investment pay off in attendance etc that they trotted this kid out there for every kind of promotional thing under the sun.

DonnieDarko
04-29-2010, 03:23 AM
The fact that people are turning this comment into Ozzie being jealous that Beckham has been dubbed a savior is kind of crazy. Come on, guys. All he's saying is that Beckham shouldn't feel like he's got to carry the load. He shouldn't feel like he needs to take over the team and lead them to wins. He's clearly trying to take pressure off of him.

This doesn't have anything to do with Ozzie as a player or the fact that Beckham is getting all this love and somehow taking attention away from Ozzie, or anything ridiculous like that.

It's a manager trying to make sure people don't expect too much from him. He's trying to protect the kid's mental state. If you can't see that, I can't help you.

This. If you're interpreting it as anything else you either hate Ozzie already and that's coloring your perception of his comments, or you're just an idiot.

soxfanatlanta
04-29-2010, 07:58 AM
I do not get a chance to watch many games, so let me ask. Does anyone notice if the pitchers are approaching him differently this year? I guessing that GB's struggles are more adjustment related than anything. When/if he adjusts, he will be productive at the plate.

Thoughts?

Madvora
04-29-2010, 08:09 AM
This is the same stuff Ozzie was saying last year when they brought him up. He's trying to deflect attention away from Beckham so he doesn't have so much pressure on him. Everyone is aware that we have a possible great young talent on our hands. Ozzie is just speaking up more to try to keep people from thinking this. I know there was the exact same thread about this last year too.

jabrch
04-29-2010, 08:20 AM
This. If you're interpreting it as anything else you either hate Ozzie already and that's coloring your perception of his comments, or you're just an idiot.


Or C: Both A and B

RedHeadPaleHoser
04-29-2010, 08:23 AM
I agree with Ozzie that there are 25 men out there. Yet, you use Juan Pierre like he's Ricky Henderson from the early 1990's.

Find us a MAN to lead off and we'll agree with you on Gordon. Otherwise, ****. You're pissed someone's stealing your thunder yet the guys who ARE hitting (ANDRUW ****ING JONES) rides the pines.

Yeah, last night was Peavy's fault. NOT.

jabrch
04-29-2010, 08:27 AM
I agree with Ozzie that there are 25 men out there. Yet, you use Juan Pierre like he's Ricky Henderson from the early 1990's.

Find us a MAN to lead off and we'll agree with you on Gordon. Otherwise, ****. You're pissed someone's stealing your thunder yet the guys who ARE hitting (ANDRUW ****ING JONES) rides the pines.

Yeah, last night was Peavy's fault. NOT.

Yeah, that's right - not enough men on this team... Pierre is a career near .300 hitter - not manly enough?

canOcorn
04-29-2010, 09:54 AM
This. If you're interpreting it as anything else you either hate Ozzie already and that's coloring your perception of his comments, or you're just an idiot.

Or it's just Ozzie not managing correctly, again. Does this kid even know his role? He's been a run producer his whole life and now to take pressure off of him he's been reduced to sac bunting? Ozzie lacks any foresight into seeing talent or developing it.

RedHeadPaleHoser
04-29-2010, 10:00 AM
Yeah, that's right - not enough men on this team... Pierre is a career near .300 hitter - not manly enough?

Our leadoff man seems to lead us off with alot more outs than OB. I appreciate career #'s, but we need NOW production, not career discussion.

hawkjt
04-29-2010, 10:51 AM
Anyone interpeting Ozzie as doing anything but trying to take the pressure off Gordon is simply wrong.

I was a big advocate for Pods being re-signed.
Having a leadoff guy that is hitting .365 and oba of over .440 is what really would take some pressure off the 2nd hitter(Gordon).
Many insisted that Pods was not worth the 1.5 million he got in KC.
Many insisted that Figgins at 36 million(.200 after 2 hits last nite) was the guy we needed.
Juan needs to figure this out.

WhiteSoxFTW
04-29-2010, 11:02 AM
I agree with Ozzie that there are 25 men out there. Yet, you use Juan Pierre like he's Ricky Henderson from the early 1990's.

Find us a MAN to lead off and we'll agree with you on Gordon. Otherwise, ****. You're pissed someone's stealing your thunder yet the guys who ARE hitting (ANDRUW ****ING JONES) rides the pines.

Yeah, last night was Peavy's fault. NOT.

You can argue that Ozzie made bad in-game or lineup decisions, but saying that he is upset the Gordon Beckham is stealing his thunder? :scratch:

That is asinine.

BainesHOF
04-29-2010, 11:16 AM
Then why are you batting him in the 2 hole Ozzie? Bat him 6th or lower and just let him play baseball.

Exactly.

Ozzie's not just trying to take the pressure of Beckham. He's been preoccupied with the kid since he joined us last year. Even when Beckham was playing well last year Ozzie was trying to cut him down to size.

Ozzie's handling of young players sucks. Sometimes he's even a bully to them. Yet he's scared of veterans.

canOcorn
04-29-2010, 11:20 AM
Anyone interpeting Ozzie as doing anything but trying to take the pressure off Gordon is simply wrong.

I was a big advocate for Pods being re-signed.
Having a leadoff guy that is hitting .365 and oba of over .440 is what really would take some pressure off the 2nd hitter(Gordon).
Many insisted that Pods was not worth the 1.5 million he got in KC.
Many insisted that Figgins at 36 million(.200 after 2 hits last nite) was the guy we needed.
Juan needs to figure this out.

Hopefully, KW is reeling Oswaldo back in. This was a horribly constructed lineup and KW gave OG enough rope to hang himself. He's hung, so, hopefully Tinker II is gone and we can get on with life.

Lip Man 1
04-29-2010, 11:22 AM
Hawk:

Yet again, something needs to be made clear. The Sox wouldn't give Pods a MULTI YEAR contract that he and (or) his agent were demanding. And who can blame them with his history?

He only got a one year deal with the Royals after NO ONE would agree to his original demands.

By then the Sox had moved on because they weren't got to wait and see what "might" happen and possibly be left holding the bag if he went elsewhere.

Under the circumstances I can't blame them. Now you can argue they got the wrong lead off guy in Pierre but the Pods situation THEY HAD LITTLE CHOICE.

Lip

Jerko
04-29-2010, 11:23 AM
IMO this is quickly becoming a team of head-cases. Too much pressure on Pierre to bat leadoff, too much pressure on Beckham to bat 2nd, too much pressure to move Rios up to the 2 hole, too much pressure on TCQ batting 3rd, AJ throwing his ****ing bat further than he throws the ball on steal attempts, Ramirez is useless in April, Peavy stomping around like Big Z, and a bullpen that is unhittable in non-pressure situations but give up runs like clockwork in close games. I can add giving up runs right after we score 90% of the time, but why pile on? You can have all the talent in the world but if you're ****ed up upstairs, forget it. This team is ****ed up upstairs. These guys need to relax and play the ****ing game and quit acting like deer caught in the headlights.

guillen4life13
04-29-2010, 11:26 AM
Hawk:

Yet again, something needs to be made clear. The Sox wouldn't give Pods a MULTI YEAR contract that he and (or) his agent were demanding. And who can blame them with his history?

He only got a one year deal with the Royals after NO ONE would agree to his original demands.

By then the Sox had moved on because they weren't got to wait and see what "might" happen and possibly be left holding the bag if he went elsewhere.

Under the circumstances I can't blame them. Now you can argue they got the wrong lead off guy in Pierre but the Pods situation THEY HAD LITTLE CHOICE.

Lip

Agreed. Pods is a health risk who, in certain similarity to Pierre, is prone to being a very polar offensive player. Either he's really good, or he's mediocre. However, in his career, Juan Pierre has been more consistent and more durable.

There is nothing to say Pods will finish the year better than Pierre. There is much time left yet for individual stats to even out.

spawn
04-29-2010, 11:48 AM
The fact that people are turning this comment into Ozzie being jealous that Beckham has been dubbed a savior is kind of crazy. Come on, guys. All he's saying is that Beckham shouldn't feel like he's got to carry the load. He shouldn't feel like he needs to take over the team and lead them to wins. He's clearly trying to take pressure off of him.

This doesn't have anything to do with Ozzie as a player or the fact that Beckham is getting all this love and somehow taking attention away from Ozzie, or anything ridiculous like that.

It's a manager trying to make sure people don't expect too much from him. He's trying to protect the kid's mental state. If you can't see that, I can't help you.
Thank you. This is how I interepreted his comments as well. He's trying to help Beckham realize he's not a savior, to relax, and just play ball. He's trying to help take some pressure off the kid.

RedHeadPaleHoser
04-29-2010, 11:59 AM
You can argue that Ozzie made bad in-game or lineup decisions, but saying that he is upset the Gordon Beckham is stealing his thunder? :scratch:

That is asinine.

Fine. I'm as asinine as his lineups then.

jabrch
04-29-2010, 01:48 PM
Our leadoff man seems to lead us off with alot more outs than OB. I appreciate career #'s, but we need NOW production, not career discussion.


He hit .300 last year. He averaged .290 the three years prior to that. There is no reason not to expect that by the end of this year he will be between .280 and .300.

TheOldRoman
04-29-2010, 02:19 PM
He hit .300 last year. He averaged .290 the three years prior to that. There is no reason not to expect that by the end of this year he will be between .280 and .300.That is nonsense, Jab. Three weeks is a plenty big enough sample size to predict the entire year. Pierre will be lucky to hit .220 this season. I thought at the beginning of the year he was in a 4th place tie for worst player ever, with Teahen, Rios, and Andruw Jones. Sure, I booed them mercilessly, but then they got hot and I realized they weren't that bad (although I reserve the right to throw them back on the list as performance dictates). But I am sure about Pierre. You know that guys fall of a cliff performance wise when they hit 32. And don't even get me started on Quentin. 2008 was a fluke and Arizona knew something Kenny didn't.

jabrch
04-29-2010, 02:22 PM
That is nonsense, Jab. Three weeks is a plenty big enough sample size to predict the entire year. Pierre will be lucky to hit .220 this season. I thought at the beginning of the year he was in a 4th place tie for worst player ever, with Teahen, Rios, and Andruw Jones. Sure, I booed them mercilessly, but then they got hot and I realized they weren't that bad (although I reserve the right to throw them back on the list as performance dictates). But I am sure about Pierre. You know that guys fall of a cliff performance wise when they hit 32. And don't even get me started on Quentin. 2008 was a fluke and Arizona knew something Kenny didn't.


:D:

The saddest part of your post is that there is a contingency here at WSI that believes nearly everything you say there is true.

Rdy2PlayBall
04-29-2010, 02:26 PM
That is nonsense, Jab. Three weeks is a plenty big enough sample size to predict the entire year. Pierre will be lucky to hit .220 this season. I thought at the beginning of the year he was in a 4th place tie for worst player ever, with Teahen, Rios, and Andruw Jones. Sure, I booed them mercilessly, but then they got hot and I realized they weren't that bad (although I reserve the right to throw them back on the list as performance dictates). But I am sure about Pierre. You know that guys fall of a cliff performance wise when they hit 32. And don't even get me started on Quentin. 2008 was a fluke and Arizona knew something Kenny didn't.We should have traded Beckham when we had the chance. I hate how were stuck with someone who is going to hat .203 all season. Thank god we have these three weeks to find out we have to try and get Fields back at the break.

You post was some kind of joke right?? Because it makes no sense.

asindc
04-29-2010, 02:30 PM
That is nonsense, Jab. Three weeks is a plenty big enough sample size to predict the entire year. Pierre will be lucky to hit .220 this season. I thought at the beginning of the year he was in a 4th place tie for worst player ever, with Teahen, Rios, and Andruw Jones. Sure, I booed them mercilessly, but then they got hot and I realized they weren't that bad (although I reserve the right to throw them back on the list as performance dictates). But I am sure about Pierre. You know that guys fall of a cliff performance wise when they hit 32. And don't even get me started on Quentin. 2008 was a fluke and Arizona knew something Kenny didn't.

I say let's go a step further. Let's update your list from game to game. Pauly goes 0-5 today? Worst ever player list! Pierre goes 3-5 with 2 SBs and 3 runs scored? Let's start the discussion of where he ranks in the pantheon of great leadoff hitters. No need for this three-week evaluation period crap. Oh yeah, let the sole criteria be how we feel at the moment...

TheOldRoman
04-29-2010, 02:33 PM
We should have traded Beckham when we had the chance. I hate how were stuck with someone who is going to hat .203 all season. Thank god we have these three weeks to find out we have to try and get Fields back at the break.

You post was some kind of joke right?? Because it makes no sense.Oh yeah, Beckham was never going to be a star. He was overrated by Sox fans, and I have the stats to prove it. We might have been able to trade him for something big last year, but now we be lucky to package him and Jenks + cash to get a Nick Punto type player.

Oh, and I stand by my comments.

fcl
04-29-2010, 02:46 PM
Bottom line I think Beckham will be OK. But every time i think about the parrallels with Nick Swisher.....I do get a little scared. The hype on Swisher was intense and batting at the top of the order eventually took its toll on his performance.

And if Greg Walker is taking our young projected stars of the future in Beckham and Quentin and turning them into .220 hitters Walk needs to go. I judge a hitting coach based on the progress (or regress) of the young players. If a veteran like AJ sucks, I tend to blame the player a lot more.

RedHeadPaleHoser
04-29-2010, 02:50 PM
He hit .300 last year. He averaged .290 the three years prior to that. There is no reason not to expect that by the end of this year he will be between .280 and .300.

Congrats on knowing Pierre's career average. Now, going back to my post, tell me why Pierre remains in the lineup as of today's date, with his BA and OBP being where they are, yet Andruw Jones rides the pines.

jabrch
04-29-2010, 03:00 PM
Congrats on knowing Pierre's career average.

Thanks.

Now, going back to my post, tell me why Pierre remains in the lineup as of today's date, with his BA and OBP being where they are, yet Andruw Jones rides the pines.


If you expect Jones to play every day, then you should expect to be disappointed. If your definition of "rides the pines" means he doesn't play every day, then you should expect to be disappointed. If you want to react to a small sample size and completely bench a proven .290+ hitter, then you should expect to be disappointed.

RHPH - I don't get your point.

You said to find "a man to lead off". I have no idea why Juan Pierre isn't a man. So I asked if he isn't enough man - and cited his career numbers. You said that wasn't good - you wanted to know about today. I can't tell you what he is going to do today - but I told you what he did last year and the last three years. If that's not good enough to project that what he has done in two weeks may not be what he does all year, then I don't know what to tell you.

I am fine with Jones playing. I'm fine with Pierre playing. I can't tell you which one will be better - because both have strenghts and weaknesses. Neither is a lock. Andruw Jones is not "riding the pines" by my definition. He's playing - just not every day. Guillen is going to rotate people all year. I have no problem with that either.

Now, back to my question - what about Juan Pierre is not man enough for you?

jabrch
04-29-2010, 03:01 PM
I say let's go a step further. Let's update your list from game to game. Pauly goes 0-5 today? Worst ever player list! Pierre goes 3-5 with 2 SBs and 3 runs scored? Let's start the discussion of where he ranks in the pantheon of great leadoff hitters. No need for this three-week evaluation period crap. Oh yeah, let the sole criteria be how we feel at the moment...


:)

JB98
04-29-2010, 03:25 PM
There are numerous legitimate criticisms of Ozzie right now. These comments about Beckham, however, are no big deal. Much ado about nothing, IMO.

slavko
04-29-2010, 04:31 PM
I do not get a chance to watch many games, so let me ask. Does anyone notice if the pitchers are approaching him differently this year? I guessing that GB's struggles are more adjustment related than anything. When/if he adjusts, he will be productive at the plate.

Thoughts?

It would seem so. The dropoff started last year August? after he'd had a few turns around the dance floor. Those scouts are good. Remember when he was a sure ROY guy and then tailed off? Or, it could be the influence of Walker.

Danielgosox38
04-29-2010, 07:09 PM
:D:

The saddest part of your post is that there is a contingency here at WSI that believes nearly everything you say there is true.


I have no idea why you have this "holier than WSI" attitude that you have around here, and I have no idea how you get away with it, but it's really old. You are no better than any of us here.

Danielgosox38
04-29-2010, 07:28 PM
And for the record, I just think Ozzie is trying to take pressure off Beckham.

UChicagoHP
04-29-2010, 07:31 PM
My lord, some of you really hate Ozzie. I see absolutely nothing wrong or false about this quote. While its mostly been the media annointing this kid as the second coming, I'm sure a few in the organization are guilty as well...and it's simply not fair to Beckham, in regards to all of this added pressure. Someday he will be able to handle it, I'm almost sure of that, but he was kind of rushed, and he was certainly "pimped" by the media WAY too soon.

With that being said, this is friggin April, and Beckham MAY be a warm weather player/take a while to get going...if he is still hitting .220 on June 15, then we have a problem, but I have a feeling that average will be creeping towards .280 by then.

EDIT: If he can lay off the low and way junk...that is a BIG problem, at the moment. One that is fixable, however.

canOcorn
04-29-2010, 08:56 PM
Fine. I'm as asinine as his lineups then.


Agreed. He hasn't developed one offensive talent and readily admits it's not his job to develop talent. Beckham is not a #2 hitter, yet Ozzie retards his growth by batting him there and playing a stupid ass NL philosophy.

Rdy2PlayBall
04-29-2010, 09:26 PM
Agreed. He hasn't developed one offensive talent and readily admits it's not his job to develop talent. Beckham is not a #2 hitter, yet Ozzie retards his growth by batting him there and playing a stupid ass NL philosophy.According to seemingly most of WSI, he is. So that means your wrong.

HangWiffum
04-29-2010, 11:12 PM
The fact that people are turning this comment into Ozzie being jealous that Beckham has been dubbed a savior is kind of crazy. Come on, guys. All he's saying is that Beckham shouldn't feel like he's got to carry the load. He shouldn't feel like he needs to take over the team and lead them to wins. He's clearly trying to take pressure off of him.

This doesn't have anything to do with Ozzie as a player or the fact that Beckham is getting all this love and somehow taking attention away from Ozzie, or anything ridiculous like that.

It's a manager trying to make sure people don't expect too much from him. He's trying to protect the kid's mental state. If you can't see that, I can't help you.

You have to remove your lips from ozzies rear. Ozzie has been ripping his kid since day one. He can disguise it in the "taking pressure off the kid" crap. It's a trend and Ozzie has to be the face of this team because of his ego.

Slappy
04-29-2010, 11:13 PM
According to seemingly most of WSI, he is. So that means your wrong.

You're*

Majority is always right. That's a fact.

Tragg
04-29-2010, 11:14 PM
What are Ozzie's comments about pierre and kotsay?

Nellie_Fox
04-30-2010, 01:32 AM
You have to remove your lips from ozzies rear. Ozzie has been ripping his kid since day one. He can disguise it in the "taking pressure off the kid" crap. It's a trend and Ozzie has to be the face of this team because of his ego.
That's enough. That's a personal attack that is going too far. Ranger has put up with a lot of crap on here, but that doesn't mean that the mods are going to let everyone treat him far more disrespectfully than we allow for other posters.

Tone it down, everyone.

hawkjt
04-30-2010, 03:16 AM
Hawk:

Yet again, something needs to be made clear. The Sox wouldn't give Pods a MULTI YEAR contract that he and (or) his agent were demanding. And who can blame them with his history?

He only got a one year deal with the Royals after NO ONE would agree to his original demands.

By then the Sox had moved on because they weren't got to wait and see what "might" happen and possibly be left holding the bag if he went elsewhere.

Under the circumstances I can't blame them. Now you can argue they got the wrong lead off guy in Pierre but the Pods situation THEY HAD LITTLE CHOICE.

Lip
I know that Pods and his agent contributed to the re-signing problems,but I really feel like Kenny(who I like) just never sent out the positive signals that would have opened the door to an early signing. They are paying Juan 8 million for two years...a deal that I did not mind after it was clear that Pods was out of the picture,but , I honestly think that if they had made that same offer to Pods, the sox would have signed him and been better off. I just saw a guy that finally figured it out last year at the plate and with his stretching regime. He finally relaxed at the plate and let his natural hitting talent take over. And he figured out how to avoid the muscle pulls with a new routine.

I just hated to see one of our only 2 guys that hit over .300 go away. We never seem to have .300 hitters....gets frustrating.

Ranger
04-30-2010, 06:48 AM
Or it's just Ozzie not managing correctly, again. Does this kid even know his role? He's been a run producer his whole life and now to take pressure off of him he's been reduced to sac bunting? Ozzie lacks any foresight into seeing talent or developing it.

He's attempted 2 sac bunts in 77 ABs and he's now a "sac bunter"? Yes, someone here lacks foresight. And it's not the manager...

Ranger
04-30-2010, 06:49 AM
There's reality, but then there's:

You have to remove your lips from ozzies rear. Ozzie has been ripping his kid since day one. He can disguise it in the "taking pressure off the kid" crap. It's a trend and Ozzie has to be the face of this team because of his ego.

Ranger
04-30-2010, 06:50 AM
My lord, some of you really hate Ozzie. I see absolutely nothing wrong or false about this quote. While its mostly been the media annointing this kid as the second coming, I'm sure a few in the organization are guilty as well...and it's simply not fair to Beckham, in regards to all of this added pressure. Someday he will be able to handle it, I'm almost sure of that, but he was kind of rushed, and he was certainly "pimped" by the media WAY too soon.

This is exactly correct.

cards press box
04-30-2010, 06:59 AM
You have to remove your lips from ozzies rear. Ozzie has been ripping his kid since day one. He can disguise it in the "taking pressure off the kid" crap. It's a trend and Ozzie has to be the face of this team because of his ego.

This is a joke, right? It seems pretty obvious to me that Ozzie has been trying to reduce the pressure on Gordon Beckham. Since Beckham arrived in Chicago, fans have compared him to Derek Jeter and have hailed him as the future cornerstone of the franchise. With his talent, Beckham probably will be the face of the White Sox and the cornerstone of the franchise for years to come. But that is a lot of pressure to place on a young guy and Guillen has attempted to reduce all the ballyhoo and, thereby, come to Beckham's aid.

The manager is not attacking his young star. He is trying to help him. I am truly stunned that Guillen's motives are being questioned about this.

jabrch
04-30-2010, 08:35 AM
This is a joke, right? It seems pretty obvious to me that Ozzie has been trying to reduce the pressure on Gordon Beckham. Since Beckham arrived in Chicago, fans have compared him to Derek Jeter and have hailed him as the future cornerstone of the franchise. With his talent, Beckham probably will be the face of the White Sox and the cornerstone of the franchise for years to come. But that is a lot of pressure to place on a young guy and Guillen has attempted to reduce all the ballyhoo and, thereby, come to Beckham's aid.

The manager is not attacking his young star. He is trying to help him. I am truly stunned that Guillen's motives are being questioned about this.


Welcome to WSI. Bitching about management and ownership is par for the course - mostly because a large portion of our posters clearly would do a better job than OG/KW/JR and would spend more than ownership.

doublem23
04-30-2010, 08:51 AM
Welcome to WSI. Bitching about management and ownership is par for the course - mostly because a large portion of our posters clearly would do a better job than OG/KW/JR and would spend more than ownership.

:violin:

It's OK, guys, we're currently the 3rd worst team in the AL, we have 3 everyday players hitting .200 or below, 3 of our starters have ERAs over 5, and for all of this we get to pay the 4th highest ticket prices in baseball! Everything is sunshine, lollipops, and rainbows!

TDog
04-30-2010, 09:20 AM
He's attempted 2 sac bunts in 77 ABs and he's now a "sac bunter"? Yes, someone here lacks foresight. And it's not the manager...

I believe he has attempted three, twice successfully, but I could be mistaken. Regardless, all of his attempts were in the first week of the season, but people still whine mightily that Guillen is taking the bat out of his hands by asking him to bunt.

The White Sox actually have been bunting well this year, succeeding in sacrifices and going 3-for-5 in bunts that were not credited as sacrifices. (Beckham being 0-for-1.) Beckham has only 25 percent of the team's sacrifices, so batting him second doesn't seem to be holding him back by unduly placing the sacrifice burden on him.

It may be that Beckham hasn't been bunting because Pierre hasn't been getting on base to lead off innings in front of him. Nonetheless, there is no evidence that hitting second for him means anything more than guaranteeing him four plate appearances in nine innings (the White Sox having only been shut out once and leaving runners on base in that game). In 64 percent of his plate appearances, he comes up with no one on base. There rarely have been No. 2 hitter obligations for him to face. He hasn't been hitting or getting on base this season either.

Many of the people complaining in this thread simply haven't been paying attention.

WhiteSox1989
04-30-2010, 09:48 AM
There is literally nothing wrong with what Ozzie said. For the most part, he is right.

Iwritecode
04-30-2010, 09:55 AM
I understand what Ozzie is trying to say/do, but I just wonder if he could've said it in a better way?

TheOldRoman
04-30-2010, 09:57 AM
What are Ozzie's comments about pierre and kotsay?Are those two guys 23 year olds with a huge amount of expectations on their shoulders?

Oh, that's right. You didn't even bother to read the article or get the context of Ozzie's quote. You just saw that Ozzie said something which could be twisted to somehow make it look like he was critical of Beckham. Your anti-Ozzie agenda is inspiring, but to make it a true Tragg post, you need to either work in the term "slappy speedster" or mention how Ozzie allegedly called Wise' OBP last spring "tremendous".

Tragg
04-30-2010, 10:03 AM
Are those two guys 23 year olds with a huge amount of expectations on their shoulders?

NO, they are old veterans who are stinking the place up and are on this team because of Ozzie Guillen. How about Oz "motivate" them?

I read the piece....Ozzie didn't have a positive thing to say about Beckham in the entire piece. Twisting his words? Silly.

skobabe8
04-30-2010, 10:04 AM
I'm beginning to think that alot of people on this board just completely hate this team for everything they do.

skobabe8
04-30-2010, 10:09 AM
NO, they are old veterans who are stinking the place up and are on this team ONLY because of Ozzie Guillen. How about Oz motivate them?

You think Ozzie should do better at motivating 2 veterans who have a combined 23 years of MLB service time??

Wow.

:rolleyes:

TheOldRoman
04-30-2010, 10:16 AM
NO, they are old veterans who are stinking the place up and are on this team because of Ozzie Guillen. How about Oz "motivate" them?

I read the piece....Ozzie didn't have a positive thing to say about Beckham in the entire piece. Twisting his words? Silly.Ozzie wasn't trying to motivate Beckham, he was trying to take pressure off him and get him to relax. Beckham is pressing a lot, the offense has been horrible, and he has been dubbed the savior by many, so he feels he needs to do something big in every AB. He was saying that Gordon isn't a one man offense and he doesn't have to be. There is nothing objectionable about that.

Tragg
04-30-2010, 10:22 AM
Ozzie wasn't trying to motivate Beckham, he was trying to take pressure off him and get him to relax. Beckham is pressing a lot, the offense has been horrible, and he has been dubbed the savior by many, so he feels he needs to do something big in every AB. He was saying that Gordon isn't a one man offense and he doesn't have to be. There is nothing objectionable about that.

I actually agree with you and your interpretation of Guillen's comments. Leave Beckham alone.
And I really haven't heard or read much about him being the "savior" of the team...it's more like he's the only really quality position player we've developed/drafted in a decade, so everyone's really excited. But I don't live in Chicago so maybe people are saying "Savior".

One thing though -Beckham's not walking like he did in college and in the minors. Coincidence? I hope so. BUt it's a tad worriesome. Maybe I exaggerate Guillen's indifference to obp; but not by much.

SephClone89
04-30-2010, 10:24 AM
And I really haven't heard or read much about him being the "savior" of the team...it's more like he's the only really quality position player we've developed/drafted in a decade, so everyone's really excited. But I don't live in Chicago so maybe people are saying "Savior".



I've heard "face of this franchise for the next decade" countless times. Even Hawk has said it.

TheOldRoman
04-30-2010, 10:54 AM
I actually agree with you and your interpretation of Guillen's comments. Leave Beckham alone.
And I really haven't heard or read much about him being the "savior" of the team...it's more like he's the only really quality position player we've developed/drafted in a decade, so everyone's really excited. But I don't live in Chicago so maybe people are saying "Savior".

One thing though -Beckham's not walking like he did in college and in the minors. Coincidence? I hope so. BUt it's a tad worriesome. Maybe I exaggerate Guillen's indifference to obp; but not by much.Yes, he should take walks more. I think that will also come with time. He will stop being so aggressive and chasing bad pitches. However, as you mention the team's hitting philosphy doesn't really emphasise OBP, and that is from Walker down.

I don't think Ozzie ignores OBP, just look at the Sox putting Swisher at leadoff to start 2008. Ozzie might emphasise speed at the top of the order too much, so he wouldn't ever do something like bat Youkilis leadoff, but I don't think he completely neglects OBP. The Sox have just had poor OBP players over the last few years. The only high OBP players they have had have been RBI guys, so Ozzie wasn't going to bat them leadoff. If Mitchell is able to fully recover from his surgery he could be the high OBP speed guy Ozzie ultimately wants at the top of the order, but until then, we are going to get less than perfect solutions.

happydude
04-30-2010, 12:16 PM
I've heard "face of this franchise for the next decade" countless times. Even Hawk has said it.

No doubt. In truth, Gordon played well last year but not well enough to support the current expectations of him by many. He didn't even win the ROY; I don't think he even finished second or third in the voting. Thats not to say that winning or not winning that award is a sufficient barometer; it simply suggests that, because we rarely get a young, legitimate prospect on the Sox who actually performs, we may be more inclined to overestimate this particular player's capabilities.

He has a nice swing and a great attitude; I think we should just see what he's capable of over the next season or so and then adjust our expectations accordingly.

If he turns into the next Sandberg/Morgan/Biggio then great but, if not, being a solid second baseman with impact at the plate won't be the worst thing in the world, either.

Tragg
04-30-2010, 01:50 PM
Yes, he should take walks more. I think that will also come with time. He will stop being so aggressive and chasing bad pitches. However, as you mention the team's hitting philosphy doesn't really emphasise OBP, and that is from Walker down.

I don't think Ozzie ignores OBP, just look at the Sox putting Swisher at leadoff to start 2008. Ozzie might emphasise speed at the top of the order too much, so he wouldn't ever do something like bat Youkilis leadoff, but I don't think he completely neglects OBP. The Sox have just had poor OBP players over the last few years. The only high OBP players they have had have been RBI guys, so Ozzie wasn't going to bat them leadoff. .
Well, I think he seriously undervalues it. I'll see your swisher and raise you Wise. And I think a major reason that our obp guys are the rbi guys is that he undervalues it at from average players. (good run producers usually have good obps).

It's Dankerific
05-01-2010, 12:24 PM
He hit .300 last year. He averaged .290 the three years prior to that. There is no reason not to expect that by the end of this year he will be between .280 and .300.

Congrats on knowing Pierre's career average. Now, going back to my post, tell me why Pierre remains in the lineup as of today's date, with his BA and OBP being where they are, yet Andruw Jones rides the pines.

In what ****ing league did Pierre hit the baseball? oh thats right, the one where a ****ty AL starter becomes good and a good/great one becomes lights out.

I dont care what Juan has batted in AAA, either.

:violin:

It's OK, guys, we're currently the 3rd worst team in the AL, we have 3 everyday players hitting .200 or below, 3 of our starters have ERAs over 5, and for all of this we get to pay the 4th highest ticket prices in baseball! Everything is sunshine, lollipops, and rainbows!

Its only May! April games don't count.