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View Full Version : Jones should be in the field. Period.


Harry Chappas
04-28-2010, 10:26 AM
Once again we pay lip service to the importance of defense only to start a guy with a rag arm and suspect instincts in Juan Pierre. But in past years, these decisions could be excused because we lacked a viable alternative. Now, we have Jones who while has mostly likely lost a step or even two, is still a plus fielder.

I have no doubt in my mind that he would have made the play that Pierre botched. Take that out of the equation and the Sox win last night.

salty99
04-28-2010, 10:30 AM
Yes or move Quentin back to left and have Jones in right. Q has looked brutal in right.

Rdy2PlayBall
04-28-2010, 10:35 AM
Yes or move Quentin back to left and have Jones in right. Q has looked brutal in right.Terrible. He never looked bad as a fielder... he was average to a little above because of his consistency.... he is bad, BAD, in right. It's kind of funny watching him out there... I'd rather have Dye's defense in right.

aryzner
04-28-2010, 10:38 AM
Agreed to Jones in RF. There was a hit last night into right-center that I'm pretty certain Quentin would have never gotten to, and Jones made it look easy.

It was the one Hawk referred to as "graceful." Don't remember who hit it or what inning.

UChicagoHP
04-28-2010, 10:43 AM
Agreed, and it will help him stay in shape! Unless playing the field is somehow detrimental to his health/hitting, he needs to be in the field and he WILL be, soon. Ozzie wants to see if Kenny Williams' original vision for this team will work, and there is nothing wrong with that, but after 30-40 games or so of average baseball...may as well change some things that need changing...

Ranger
04-28-2010, 11:56 AM
Agreed, and it will help him stay in shape! Unless playing the field is somehow detrimental to his health/hitting, he needs to be in the field and he WILL be, soon. Ozzie wants to see if Kenny Williams' original vision for this team will work, and there is nothing wrong with that, but after 30-40 games or so of average baseball...may as well change some things that need changing...


That's why he's not playing there every day. They don't want to run him down by July.

Nelfox02
04-28-2010, 12:13 PM
That's why he's not playing there every day. They don't want to run him down by July.


the way this divisional race is shaping up....there could be very little to play for by the time we hit July

SephClone89
04-28-2010, 12:16 PM
One could probably make the argument that Kotsay is the third-best defensive outfielder on the team.

Crede24Thome25
04-28-2010, 12:24 PM
I dream of the day we have a lights out outfield. Bring on the Jordan Danks era.:D:
Do any of you guys see us making an offer to either Jayson Werth or Carl Crawford after this year?

WhiteSox5187
04-28-2010, 12:25 PM
Terrible. He never looked bad as a fielder... he was average to a little above because of his consistency.... he is bad, BAD, in right. It's kind of funny watching him out there... I'd rather have Dye's defense in right.

I'd say Quentin has always been a pretty bad fielder with a plus arm (though not much accuracy). I can recall seeing him take some pretty questionable routes to balls in left too.

With the exception of Rios, our OF defense is pretty questionable. Pierre can look absolutely lost on plays, Quentin is slightly below average at best in LF and miserable in RF and Jones can't play everyday because as Ranger has said, you don't want to have him run down by July.

WhiteSox5187
04-28-2010, 12:26 PM
I dream of the day we have a lights out outfield. Bring on the Jordan Danks era.:D:
Do any of you guys see us making an offer to either Jayson Werth or Carl Crawford after this year?

No. This is not a team that goes out and signs big name free agents, last time we did was Albert Belle and that was, what? 13, 14 years ago?

Crede24Thome25
04-28-2010, 12:28 PM
No. This is not a team that goes out and signs big name free agents, last time we did was Albert Belle and that was, what? 13, 14 years ago?
So I guess we'll just have to wait for Danks and Mitchell:D:

Ranger
04-28-2010, 12:33 PM
the way this divisional race is shaping up....there could be very little to play for by the time we hit July

That's not a reason to wear him down now. They have to play for a full season, not just the first 3 months.

NLaloosh
04-28-2010, 12:38 PM
Kotsay should be playing more LF than Pierre. Pierre should be playing more bench.

WhiteSox5187
04-28-2010, 12:43 PM
the way this divisional race is shaping up....there could be very little to play for by the time we hit July

I know we look awful right now, but at this date in 2006 the Twins were 7 games back and as late as May 27th they were as many as 12.5 back. They obviously went on to win the divison that year, there have been teams that have been further back than us that have come back to win the division and they all do it with fantastic pitching. If our offense can come around we can catch up to them pretty quick. They aren't going to play .700 baseball all year

WhiteSox5187
04-28-2010, 12:43 PM
Kotsay should be playing more LF than Pierre. Pierre should be playing more bench.

As bad as Pierre has looked at the plate, Kotsay has looked worse and you want to give him more ABs?

TheOldRoman
04-28-2010, 12:51 PM
I'd say Quentin has always been a pretty bad fielder with a plus arm (though not much accuracy). I can recall seeing him take some pretty questionable routes to balls in left too.

With the exception of Rios, our OF defense is pretty questionable. Pierre can look absolutely lost on plays, Quentin is slightly below average at best in LF and miserable in RF and Jones can't play everyday because as Ranger has said, you don't want to have him run down by July.No. Quentin was a five-tool prospect. He was always seen as a plus defender, even in his years with the Diamondbacks. He didn't do too well in LF, but he should be more comfortable in RF once he gets re-settled. He is a natural RF, and he will play it better than he played LF. I haven't seen all the games this year, but I did see him make a few bad plays fielding and throwing. He won't be a gold glover, but I think he will be fine as the year goes on.

WhiteSox5187
04-28-2010, 01:06 PM
No. Quentin was a five-tool prospect. He was always seen as a plus defender, even in his years with the Diamondbacks. He didn't do too well in LF, but he should be more comfortable in RF once he gets re-settled. He is a natural RF, and he will play it better than he played LF. I haven't seen all the games this year, but I did see him make a few bad plays fielding and throwing. He won't be a gold glover, but I think he will be fine as the year goes on.

There have been lots of guys who were five tool players in college and the minors and once they got to the bigs were found to be lacking in one (or more) of those tools. I didn't see Quentin play with the Diamondbacks so I can't attest to what is defensive prowess was before coming over here, but I have yet to see anything to suggest that Quentin comes anything close to being a plus defender at the major league level. Maybe you're right and he just needs to get re-adjusted in RF, but he better get re-adjusted quickly because it is getting to the point where he is going to wind up costing us some games.

Noneck
04-28-2010, 01:16 PM
That's why he's not playing there every day. They don't want to run him down by July.

I am curious about this. Jones is only 32, is in good shape and has played sparingly the past 3 years. Please let me know the reasons why he has to be used so sparingly now.

I am not disputing what you say but would just like to know what supports your comment.

Jim Shorts
04-28-2010, 01:26 PM
I am curious about this. Jones is only 32, is in good shape and has played sparingly the past 3 years. Please let me know the reasons why he has to be used so sparingly now.

I am not disputing what you say but would just like to know what supports your comment.

I'd guess due to his injuries over the past three years...which caused him to be used sparingly over that time

salty99
04-28-2010, 01:34 PM
It is sad though that we seem to have the same discussions about the outfield year after year.

NLaloosh
04-28-2010, 01:36 PM
As bad as Pierre has looked at the plate, Kotsay has looked worse and you want to give him more ABs?

Yes, Kotsay can hit the ball out of the infield and occassionally drive in some runs - and he's better defensively.

canOcorn
04-28-2010, 01:41 PM
I am curious about this. Jones is only 32, is in good shape and has played sparingly the past 3 years. Please let me know the reasons why he has to be used so sparingly now.

I am not disputing what you say but would just like to know what supports your comment.

I'd say another example of our manager misusing the roster.

doublem23
04-28-2010, 01:51 PM
I am curious about this. Jones is only 32, is in good shape and has played sparingly the past 3 years. Please let me know the reasons why he has to be used so sparingly now.

I am not disputing what you say but would just like to know what supports your comment.

He's played sparingly the last few years because he's always been injured.

Noneck
04-28-2010, 01:56 PM
He's played sparingly the last few years because he's always been injured.

He is still injured?

soxfanatlanta
04-28-2010, 02:12 PM
I am curious about this. Jones is only 32, is in good shape and has played sparingly the past 3 years. Please let me know the reasons why he has to be used so sparingly now.

I am not disputing what you say but would just like to know what supports your comment.


Keep in mind he has been in the bigs since he was 19, so he has a lot of mileage on his body. He missed extensive time in 2008 with a bad knee, and I'm sure running in the outfield would not help.

KMcMahon817
04-28-2010, 02:45 PM
No. This is not a team that goes out and signs big name free agents, last time we did was Albert Belle and that was, what? 13, 14 years ago?

I wouldn't necessarily consider Jayson Werth a BIG NAME free agent. He'll get his money, but I would almost avoid him. Sure, the dude has been good with Philly but he has played over 134 games once, and over 102 three times in his 8 year career. Ehhhh.

Ranger
04-28-2010, 03:55 PM
I am curious about this. Jones is only 32, is in good shape and has played sparingly the past 3 years. Please let me know the reasons why he has to be used so sparingly now.

I am not disputing what you say but would just like to know what supports your comment.

He is still injured?

The knee injury. Plus, I can tell you that he plays every game with both of his lower legs wrapped in calf/shin supports which isn't something all players wear. Obviously, his legs aren't 100%.

TheOldRoman
04-28-2010, 03:58 PM
The knee injury. Plus, I can tell you that he plays every game with both of his lower legs wrapped in calf/shin supports which isn't something all players wear. Obviously, his legs aren't 100%.Are those the knee pad looking things him and Alexei wear?

Ranger
04-28-2010, 04:02 PM
Are those the knee pad looking things him and Alexei wear?

What I'm talking about is worn below the knee.

WhiteSoxFTW
04-28-2010, 04:23 PM
Agreed, and it will help him stay in shape! Unless playing the field is somehow detrimental to his health/hitting, he needs to be in the field and he WILL be, soon. Ozzie wants to see if Kenny Williams' original vision for this team will work, and there is nothing wrong with that, but after 30-40 games or so of average baseball...may as well change some things that need changing...

:scratch:

Isn't it the other way around? Kenny is waiting around to see if Ozzie's vision for this team is going to fail.

jabrch
04-28-2010, 04:34 PM
Kotsay should be playing more LF than Pierre. Pierre should be playing more bench.

Once again we pay lip service to the importance of defense only to start a guy with a rag arm and suspect instincts in Juan Pierre. But in past years, these decisions could be excused because we lacked a viable alternative. Now, we have Jones who while has mostly likely lost a step or even two, is still a plus fielder.

I have no doubt in my mind that he would have made the play that Pierre botched. Take that out of the equation and the Sox win last night.


I find it a riot that we have gone, in two weeks, from these being two of the worst players to start on a major league club to insisting they play every day.

What sort of things will we be saying in two weeks?

BainesHOF
04-28-2010, 05:50 PM
I've been talking about Quentin's best defensive position for more than a year. He's not a good left fielder. It's been shocking to me that anyone other than Quentin thought it was a good idea to put him in right. (Plus he consistently makes dumb throws.)

Jones doesn't need to be babied. The guy has already stolen three bases. It's not like he's gimpy. He needs to play the field unless he says it's not a good idea. And he needs to play in right when he does play.

Noneck
04-28-2010, 05:59 PM
The knee injury. Plus, I can tell you that he plays every game with both of his lower legs wrapped in calf/shin supports which isn't something all players wear. Obviously, his legs aren't 100%.

Nice to know this kind of stuff. I wish this info would come out from the team so the fans don't have to speculate so much. Thanks

Lillian
04-28-2010, 06:19 PM
I'd say Quentin has always been a pretty bad fielder with a plus arm (though not much accuracy). I can recall seeing him take some pretty questionable routes to balls in left too.

With the exception of Rios, our OF defense is pretty questionable. Pierre can look absolutely lost on plays, Quentin is slightly below average at best in LF and miserable in RF and Jones can't play everyday because as Ranger has said, you don't want to have him run down by July.

If Jones doesn't play, you may have a point. However, an outfield of Rios in CF, Jones in RF, and either Quentin or Pierre in LF, it not only not "questionable", but I argue that it's the best outfield the Sox have had in 40 years. Here is the argument I made from a previous thread, in response to another detractor like yourself:

"I'm just curious. Whom do you think the Sox have had, at any time in the last several years, better than either Jones or Rios? I assume you're thinking of B. A. But really, he was so bad offensively, that I wouldn't count him.
Finding a pure defensive player is not that difficult.

In Rios and Jones, the Sox have two terrific defensive, as well as offensive outfielders. Now that is really unusual for them, wouldn't you agree?
When is the last time the Sox had an outfield that could hit and play solid defense?
In fact, I just went to the Almanac:
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/team...p?y=1962&t=CHA (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teamstats/roster.php?y=1962&t=CHA)

I don't think that we have had a better defensive outfield in my lifetime. The closest runner up would be the 62 team with Ken Berry, Jim Landis and Mike Hershberger, and I don't think they actually all played at the same time. Moreever, offensively they weren't even in the same league. Having arguably 3 centerfielders in a Sox outfield is a very pleasant change from recent seasons when they've asked a guy to play centerfield, out of position."

Lillian
04-28-2010, 06:26 PM
Keep in mind he has been in the bigs since he was 19, so he has a lot of mileage on his body. He missed extensive time in 2008 with a bad knee, and I'm sure running in the outfield would not help.

I don't understand this argument that because Jones has played in the Major Leagues since he was 19, he therefore has more than average wear and tear on his body.
All professional baseball players have been playing regularly since before they were 19. Wouldn't you think that the years spent in the Minor Leagues would be harder on the body than those spent in the Majors?
Major Leaguers play on better fields, with better lights, travel in more comfort, and get better quality trainers.
Sorry, the argument just doesn't seem valid.

Ranger
04-28-2010, 07:12 PM
Nice to know this kind of stuff. I wish this info would come out from the team so the fans don't have to speculate so much. Thanks

I don't think teams are interested in giving a daily "who's sore" report (especially since the report would include at least 10 guys per day). An injury is one thing, but they're not going to make a big fuss about who needs the day off because they're banged up a bit.

Besides, Ozzie has already said that he's trying to protect Jones.

I don't understand this argument that because Jones has played in the Major Leagues since he was 19, he therefore has more than average wear and tear on his body.
All professional baseball players have been playing regularly since before they were 19. Wouldn't you think that the years spent in the Minor Leagues would be harder on the body than those spent in the Majors?
Major Leaguers play on better fields, with better lights, travel in more comfort, and get better quality trainers.
Sorry, the argument just doesn't seem valid.

But they also play a lot more games per season. At no other level, do you play 162 games in 6 months.

Minor league trainers aren't slouches. They know what they're doing. And if you're a prized prospect, you're gonna get top-notch care because you, too, are an investment.

The travel really isn't that hard on them unless they're on long bus rides with bad backs or something.

Being a major leaguer is much more physically demanding.

dickallen15
04-28-2010, 07:47 PM
Jones has been hurt for a lot of the last 2 seasons. Throwing him out in the field everyday is just asking for a trip to the DL. I don't agree with everything Ozzie decides, but Jones in the field half the time or so makes a lot of sense even if he is one of the team's better defensive players.

Tragg
04-28-2010, 08:49 PM
Thank goodness tonight Ozzie sat him down for Kotsay and his .121 batting average.

Noneck
04-28-2010, 08:59 PM
I don't think teams are interested in giving a daily "who's sore" report (especially since the report would include at least 10 guys per day). An injury is one thing, but they're not going to make a big fuss about who needs the day off because they're banged up a bit.

Besides, Ozzie has already said that he's trying to protect Jones.





Saving and protecting one of your best fielders, when you need defensive ability at that position, is more than being a "little sore". Let them say he cant play in field too often because of whatever the problem is. Give the fans the straight dope.

canOcorn
04-28-2010, 09:06 PM
Saving and protecting one of your best fielders, when you need defensive ability at that position, is more than being a "little sore". Let them say he cant play in field too often because of whatever the problem is. Give the fans the straight dope.

Not to mention he's not a complete fat **** anymore and much more likely to avoid injuring himself. He stated in ST that he wanted to be the everyday CF. I think he can handle RF just fine. It's just Ozzie has turned into Tinker II since KW deliriously let him call roster shots.

canOcorn
04-28-2010, 09:11 PM
And Tcq just embarrassed himself again in RF. Stop this nonsense Oswaldo.

Ranger
04-28-2010, 09:30 PM
Saving and protecting one of your best fielders, when you need defensive ability at that position, is more than being a "little sore". Let them say he cant play in field too often because of whatever the problem is. Give the fans the straight dope.

I'm of a different mindset when it comes to fans needing to know about players that are sore. As a fan, I really don't think we need to know specifically what is wrong with a guy. If I'm a fan and they tell me he's banged up a bit and it's not DL-worthy, then that's good enough for me. I trust that players will regulary get beat up.

Of course, for my job, I like to know because I like to know. It especially helps when I field complaints about why this guy or that guy isn't in the lineup.

asindc
04-28-2010, 09:44 PM
I'm of a different mindset when it comes to fans needing to know about players that are sore. As a fan, I really don't think we need to know specifically what is wrong with a guy. If I'm a fan and they tell me he's banged up a bit and it's not DL-worthy, then that's good enough for me. I trust that players will regulary get beat up.

Of course, for my job, I like to know because I like to know. It especially helps when I field complaints about why this guy or that guy isn't in the lineup.

I'll state it more plainly: Unless it gives the Sox a competitive advantage to reveal such information, I think it is a waste of time that only serves to placate some anxious fans.

Noneck
04-28-2010, 09:54 PM
I'm of a different mindset when it comes to fans needing to know about players that are sore. As a fan, I really don't think we need to know specifically what is wrong with a guy. If I'm a fan and they tell me he's banged up a bit and it's not DL-worthy, then that's good enough for me. I trust that players will regulary get beat up.

Of course, for my job, I like to know because I like to know. It especially helps when I field complaints about why this guy or that guy isn't in the lineup.

I understand a grind of season wearing down a player. This is the 1st month of the season and you said they want to save him, so it is obviously more than just being sore.

Now when defense is needed in the OF and the Sox have one of the best defensive players of this decade, it behooves the Sox to tell the fans why he is not playing the field.

You read this message board and hear your callers stating that not playing Jones in the field bothers a lot of fans.

So, I just don't understand why the Sox cant lay it out straight why he cant play the field often. I just don't understand why they would want to hide this.

BainesHOF
04-28-2010, 10:13 PM
Forget about Ozzie not playing Jones in the field. He doesn't even know when to bat him. Letting Pierre make the final out of the game with Jones available to pinch hit was shameful.

Ranger
04-29-2010, 01:53 AM
I understand a grind of season wearing down a player. This is the 1st month of the season and you said they want to save him, so it is obviously more than just being sore.

Now when defense is needed in the OF and the Sox have one of the best defensive players of this decade, it behooves the Sox to tell the fans why he is not playing the field.

You read this message board and hear your callers stating that not playing Jones in the field bothers a lot of fans.

So, I just don't understand why the Sox cant lay it out straight why he cant play the field often. I just don't understand why they would want to hide this.

Why do you need to know it so badly? Just know that some guys simply can't play every day. Like asindc said, it's not important for anyone to know some of the details.

And, yes, they want to save him. That means that they use him the proper amount the entire length of the season. It doesn't mean that they wear him out early on, then start to rest him when he's at a breaking point. No, the goal is to ration his playing time so he stays healthy and productive all year.

pudge
04-29-2010, 02:05 AM
If Jones doesn't play, you may have a point. However, an outfield of Rios in CF, Jones in RF, and either Quentin or Pierre in LF, it not only not "questionable", but I argue that it's the best outfield the Sox have had in 40 years.

I've said it in the other thread as well, but there is just simply nothing that makes this outfield stand out, especially if Jones is not healthy enough to play outfield every day.

Slappy
04-29-2010, 02:23 AM
Jones should be the everyday right fielder. I guess we'll just have to lose some more games until Ozzie makes the change.

Noneck
04-29-2010, 09:33 AM
Why do you need to know it so badly?

Look through the threads and even the posts after you said he cant play much. A statement by the Sox would put this situation to rest and let the fans realize why one of the best outfielders of the decade is not playing the field and two below average players are.

Someone mentioned that there is no need to let anyone know whats going on, unless it gives the team a competitive advantage. Well I am sure all the other teams know why Jones isn't playing the field, so that doesnt hold water. Give the the ones that are paying his salary the same knowledge.

You call it sore but sore to me is a condition that is temporary. This appears to be a chronic condition.

asindc
04-29-2010, 09:41 AM
Look through the threads and even the posts after you said he cant play much. A statement by the Sox would put this situation to rest and let the fans realize why one of the best outfielders of the decade is not playing the field and two below average players are.

Someone mentioned that there is no need to let anyone know whats going on, unless it gives the team a competitive advantage. Well I am sure all the other teams know why Jones isn't playing the field, so that doesnt hold water. Give the the ones that are paying his salary the same knowledge.

You call it sore but sore to me is a condition that is temporary. This appears to be a chronic condition.

What makes you so sure of that?

Noneck
04-29-2010, 09:50 AM
What makes you so sure of that?

Scouts, I believe that is part of their job. Also conversations among players, reporters, broadcasters etc. If Rongey knows so do other teams.

asindc
04-29-2010, 09:53 AM
Scouts, I believe that is part of their job.

What scouts knew in November 2009 could be vastly different from now. Besides, no other team has access to Jones to assess his medical condition.

tstrike2000
04-29-2010, 11:55 AM
Once again we pay lip service to the importance of defense only to start a guy with a rag arm and suspect instincts in Juan Pierre. But in past years, these decisions could be excused because we lacked a viable alternative. Now, we have Jones who while has mostly likely lost a step or even two, is still a plus fielder.

I have no doubt in my mind that he would have made the play that Pierre botched. Take that out of the equation and the Sox win last night.

No, we should always be starting a mix of Kotsay, Nix, Lucy and/or Vizquel.

Dibbs
04-29-2010, 12:18 PM
That's not a reason to wear him down now. They have to play for a full season, not just the first 3 months.

Wear him down? He just turned 33 days ago, and has been one of the healthiest players in the history of the league. Also, who really cares if we wear him down? It's not like he is some young pitching prospect. We need all of Andruw Jones now, and he should be playing right field almost every day.

DrCrawdad
04-29-2010, 01:18 PM
With TCQ out (today plus who knows how long) we will see Jones.

Nellie_Fox
04-29-2010, 01:24 PM
Wear him down? He just turned 33 days ago, and has been one of the healthiest players in the history of the league. Also, who really cares if we wear him down? It's not like he is some young pitching prospect. We need all of Andruw Jones now, and he should be playing right field almost every day.Brilliant.

spawn
04-29-2010, 01:49 PM
Wear him down? He just turned 33 days ago, and has been one of the healthiest players in the history of the league. Also, who really cares if we wear him down? It's not like he is some young pitching prospect. We need all of Andruw Jones now, and he should be playing right field almost every day.
:scratch: He's been hurt for the better part of the last two seasons.

jabrch
04-29-2010, 02:06 PM
:scratch: He's been hurt for the better part of the last two seasons.


Enough with your silly facts spawn.

Dibbs
04-29-2010, 02:35 PM
Brilliant.

I agree, it is not brilliant. It is more common sense. What do you want to save him for? Our 90 loss season. Who's to say he will wear down anyway? We have him for one year. We might as well ride him hard and see what happens. Saving him in hopes of a 4th place finish, and at the expense of playing worse players is "brilliant".

dickallen15
04-29-2010, 03:18 PM
Wear him down? He just turned 33 days ago, and has been one of the healthiest players in the history of the league. Also, who really cares if we wear him down? It's not like he is some young pitching prospect. We need all of Andruw Jones now, and he should be playing right field almost every day.
Have you noticed his past couple of seasons? If his bat is something you want to keep around for more than 200 ABs this year, DHing him and giving him an occassional day off makes a lot of sense. If you just want to see how fast you can get him on the DL, play him in the OF everyday.

spawn
04-29-2010, 03:32 PM
I agree, it is not brilliant. It is more common sense. What do you want to save him for? Our 90 loss season. Who's to say he will wear down anyway? We have him for one year. We might as well ride him hard and see what happens. Saving him in hopes of a 4th place finish, and at the expense of playing worse players is "brilliant".
I've said it before and I'll say it again...I'm glad you're not managing the White Sox.

jabrch
04-29-2010, 03:41 PM
Jones is cold - he's hitting 2 for his last 10. Move him down.

jabrch
04-30-2010, 06:40 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-whitesox-jones

Play him every day...in the field...

Or maybe not?