PDA

View Full Version : McCarthy back on the DL


Hitmen77
04-27-2010, 02:10 PM
Sorry to hear about his ongoing injury problems, but this was one of Kenny's best trades EVER.

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/04/former-sox-pitcher-mccarthy-back-on-dl.html

RedHeadPaleHoser
04-27-2010, 02:10 PM
Yeah, you never want to dance at another's misfortune, but between BMac and Josh Fields.....man, KW's got the crystal ball going.

spawn
04-27-2010, 02:32 PM
I feel bad for him as well. Hope he gets back from the DL and stays off of it.

doublem23
04-27-2010, 02:33 PM
Even if Brandon were able to stay healthy, it'd be hard to imagine he'd ever amount to more than what John Danks is becoming and likely can be.

That deal was absolutely brilliant.

Crede24Thome25
04-27-2010, 02:38 PM
Even if Brandon were able to stay healthy, it'd be hard to imagine he'd ever amount to more than what John Danks is becoming and likely can be.

That deal was absolutely brilliant.

A couple of days ago when Danks pitched, the Mlb Tonight crew poked fun at John Hart after he gave Danks praise about how good a pitcher he is and how he always liked him. Harold Reynolds went on to say I wonder who drafted him and made the trade to send him to Chicago. Harts face went blank it was hilarious.(Seeing as Hart is the one who drafted him and then traded him)

asindc
04-27-2010, 02:43 PM
A couple of days ago when Danks pitched, the Mlb Tonight crew poked fun at John Hart after he gave Danks praise about how good a pitcher he is and how he always liked him. Harold Reynolds went on to say I wonder who drafted him and made the trade to send him to Chicago. Harts face went blank it was hilarious.(Seeing as Hart is the one who drafted him and then traded him)

Ouch.

JermaineDye05
04-27-2010, 02:48 PM
Yeah, you never want to dance at another's misfortune, but between BMac and Josh Fields.....man, KW's got the crystal ball going.

Idk about that. Teahen hasn't done anything yet to show that he'll be an above average players just yet.

I'd say between Brandon and Freddy (you might remember we got a pretty good starter in return) Kenny has the crystal ball going.

RedHeadPaleHoser
04-27-2010, 02:58 PM
Idk about that. Teahen hasn't done anything yet to show that he'll be an above average players just yet.

I'd say between Brandon and Freddy (you might remember we got a pretty good starter in return) Kenny has the crystal ball going.

Good point - the jury is still out on Teahen; I meant moreso the injury bug than the return on value but you're right. :redface:

Corlose 15
04-27-2010, 03:07 PM
What's funny about Brandon McCarthy's situation is that every time Phil Rogers brings up the trade he talks about how "everyone" considered McCarthy a legitimate big time workhorse.:rolleyes:

khan
04-27-2010, 03:07 PM
Idk about that. Teahen hasn't done anything yet to show that he'll be an above average players just yet.

I'd say between Brandon and Freddy (you might remember we got a pretty good starter in return) Kenny has the crystal ball going.

Getting a warm body for Josh Fields was a steal. KW waited 2 years too long to ship Josh Fields, his cavalcade of strikeouts, and his parade of errors out of Chicago.

ilsox7
04-27-2010, 03:21 PM
Getting a warm body for Josh Fields was a steal. KW waited 2 years too long to ship Josh Fields, his cavalcade of strikeouts, and his parade of errors out of Chicago.

Should the Sox trade Beckham now? Because if they would have traded Fields 2 years ago, you would have seen a similar reaction from the fan base as if they would trade Beckham now.

DumpJerry
04-27-2010, 03:25 PM
Should the Sox trade Beckham now? Because if they would have traded Fields 2 years ago, you would have seen a similar reaction from the fan base as if they would trade Beckham now.
No. Fields never had the buildup and performance Beckham had last year.

ilsox7
04-27-2010, 03:28 PM
No. Fields never had the buildup and performance Beckham had last year.

Beckham certainly has had more hype, but that is why I said a similar reaction. Fields' power numbers over 60% of a season were close to a 40HR/100RBI pace at age 24. There would have been people jumping off bridges left and right if he had been traded.

khan
04-27-2010, 03:41 PM
Should the Sox trade Beckham now? Because if they would have traded Fields 2 years ago, you would have seen a similar reaction from the fan base as if they would trade Beckham now.

This is a silly comparison, at best. Fields was inept both in avoiding Ks and in terms of his defensive abilities. Beckham had neither the allergy to leather, nor the proclivity to strike out that Fields has. In sum, Beckham has shown SOME ability to play baseball, whereas there were signs that Fields would not be able to do so. [If you look @ Fields' minor league numbers, they forecast EVERYTHING that Fields became as a major leaguer.]

Josh Fields was a bad draft pick, and hasn't shown the ability to be good at baseball. That doesn't impugn KW's drafting ability by any means, as each and every GM in MLB makes a few mistakes. Where KW screwed up was in selling low on Fields after 2009 instead of selling high after 2007.

khan
04-27-2010, 03:43 PM
Beckham certainly has had more hype, but that is why I said a similar reaction. Fields' power numbers over 60% of a season were close to a 40HR/100RBI pace at age 24. There would have been people jumping off bridges left and right if he had been traded.

Worrying about fan reaction is a stupid way to lead your life as a GM. IF KW gave a rip, Brandon McCarthy never would have been moved. Nor would Thome have been let go.

Beckham has had more hype because he has shown that he can actually play. Fields got lucky in garbage time. KW should have known that, and sold high after 2007.

voodoochile
04-27-2010, 03:48 PM
Idk about that. Teahen hasn't done anything yet to show that he'll be an above average players just yet.

I'd say between Brandon and Freddy (you might remember we got a pretty good starter in return) Kenny has the crystal ball going.

I'd take average. That would be a massive improvement over Fields...

ilsox7
04-27-2010, 03:59 PM
This is a silly comparison, at best. Fields was inept both in avoiding Ks and in terms of his defensive abilities. Beckham had neither the allergy to leather, nor the proclivity to strike out that Fields has. In sum, Beckham has shown SOME ability to play baseball, whereas there were signs that Fields would not be able to do so. [If you look @ Fields' minor league numbers, they forecast EVERYTHING that Fields became as a major leaguer.]

Josh Fields was a bad draft pick, and hasn't shown the ability to be good at baseball. That doesn't impugn KW's drafting ability by any means, as each and every GM in MLB makes a few mistakes. Where KW screwed up was in selling low on Fields after 2009 instead of selling high after 2007.

It's not silly at all. Beckham surely looks like the better player (and is being made the face of the franchise), but if you go back a few years, you will see plenty of baseball people talking very highly of Fields. He looked like a future corner IF (likely moving to 1st) or DH with huge power potential. In fact, you would be hard-pressed to find any GM who would have been willing to trade away Fields after that year. I'd like to see how many 24 year olds (or similarly aged players) who showed All-Star power over 100 games have been traded immediately thereafter.

Worrying about fan reaction is a stupid way to lead your life as a GM. IF KW gave a rip, Brandon McCarthy never would have been moved. Nor would Thome have been let go.

Beckham has had more hype because he has shown that he can actually play. Fields got lucky in garbage time. KW should have known that, and sold high after 2007.

Worrying about fan reaction IS a stupid way to go about your business, which is why KW doesn't generally do this. However, when you have fans, yourself included, ripping KW for not trading Fields at the absolute peak of his value, when he looked to have a bright future, it is worth mentioning. Now if you can direct me to where you called for a trade of Fields after 2007, I would be obliged to admit that this is not just hindsight whining. Otherwise, that is exactly what this is.

EDIT: Fields' numbers in AAA in 2006 had him hitting .305 with an OBP of .379. He struck out a lot, but showed the ability to hit for average and get on base in a full AAA season.

ilsox7
04-27-2010, 04:18 PM
Did some looking about the trading of young players who have shown power over a good chunk of a season. Cabrera comes to mind as he was traded to the Tigers, but that was a salary move. It's been interesting to go back to 2007 and see the commentary about Fields. Folks had him penciled in the middle of the order, playing either LF, 3B, 1B, or DH. He was thought to be an integral part of the Cabrera deal before it fell apart. His value was pretty damn high and we was well regarded around baseball as a potential big power bat.

Lip Man 1
04-27-2010, 04:34 PM
I think it was Sunday where Phil Rogers finally wrote in a column that trading McCarthy was one of the best deals Kenny ever made.

Lip

WhiteSox5187
04-27-2010, 04:45 PM
No. Fields never had the buildup and performance Beckham had last year.

I remember during the off season of that year at some point there was talk of the White Sox trying to get Roberts and there was a suggestion that Fields for Roberts was a good trade and there were several people who said that would be a steal for the Orioles and that Kenny should hang up the phone laughing and that Josh Fields was the next Reggie Jackson.

Back to McCarthy, I was baffled by that trade, it wasn't that I hated Danks but they were both young pitchers with lots of potential who were praised (though Danks was more praised) but had no track record. It seemed like we were just swapping prospects and I thought the 2007 was ready to contend (and Danks was actually a little behind in terms of development than McCarthy) and I didn't get it. This is just another reason of why I should never be a GM...unless it's for the Cubs!

Frontman
04-27-2010, 05:12 PM
What's funny about Brandon McCarthy's situation is that every time Phil Rogers brings up the trade he talks about how "everyone" considered McCarthy a legitimate big time workhorse.:rolleyes:

Actually, a lot of folks did spout off about how Kenny made a "horrid" decision by trading him; that he was the future of the franchise in pitching, blah, blah, blah.

Prior to that, the most I ever learned about BMac is that he brought his teddy bear with him everywhere and knew how to yuck it up on Boers and Bernstein.

Many times Steve Stone sounds like he's saying way too much about too little; but I do recall him saying Brandon's issue was his mindset; saying it shouldn't matter when you're handed the ball, you go out and pitch.

A few years later; Brandon, in my opinion; has proven that to be the case.

DumpJerry
04-27-2010, 06:04 PM
Back to McCarthy, I was baffled by that trade, it wasn't that I hated Danks but they were both young pitchers with lots of potential who were praised (though Danks was more praised) but had no track record. It seemed like we were just swapping prospects and I thought the 2007 was ready to contend (and Danks was actually a little behind in terms of development than McCarthy) and I didn't get it. This is just another reason of why I should never be a GM...unless it's for the Cubs!
Actually, this is why I laugh at the second guessers here when Kenny makes a deal. As much public information we have on a player, Kenny has a heck of a lot more at his disposal. This is even more true with prospects that we really don't know in other organizations. It is obvious that Kenny had information on Danks and Floyd that winter which made them more attractive to him than to us.

Unless we're talking about someone who has been in The Show for more than a full year, we don't have the amount of reports, etc., on some other team's guy that Kenny has.

ilsox7
04-27-2010, 06:08 PM
Actually, this is why I laugh at the second guessers here when Kenny makes a deal. As much public information we have on a player, Kenny has a heck of a lot more at his disposal. This is even more true with prospects that we really don't know in other organizations. It is obvious that Kenny had information on Danks and Floyd that winter which made them more attractive to him than to us.

Unless we're talking about someone who has been in The Show for more than a full year, we don't have the amount of reports, etc., on some other team's guy that Kenny has.

The second guessing is just plain annoying. Hindsight is 20/20. So unless you have a track record of supporting/opposing moves and generally being right, shutting up is a good idea.

khan
04-28-2010, 11:20 AM
He looked like a future corner IF (likely moving to 1st) or DH with huge power potential. In fact, you would be hard-pressed to find any GM who would have been willing to trade away Fields after that year. I'd like to see how many 24 year olds (or similarly aged players) who showed All-Star power over 100 games have been traded immediately thereafter.

Actually, he looked like he had a AA understanding of the strike zone, with his accumulation of Ks. He also looked like a player on whom the rest of the league didn't have a book, on a team that was going NOWHERE.

He struck out to grotesque totals througout his tenure in the minor leagues, yet the morons in charge of the system kept advancing him. He never showed an ability to catch a cold, but the mopes running the organization kept promoting Josh Fields.

Worrying about fan reaction IS a stupid way to go about your business, which is why KW doesn't generally do this. However, when you have fans, yourself included, ripping KW for not trading Fields at the absolute peak of his value, when he looked to have a bright future, it is worth mentioning. Now if you can direct me to where you called for a trade of Fields after 2007, I would be obliged to admit that this is not just hindsight whining. Otherwise, that is exactly what this is.
Bull****. I started posting here well after 2007, but I've always wanted KW to rip some stupid GM off by trading Fields for an actual usable piece.

Having said that, my first posts on these boards were exactly about this issue. I've NEVER been a fan of Josh Fields, and I've ALWAYS wanted KW to ship his ass out of here. THIS was what led me to start posting here, rather than merely read threads here. [So that's ANOTHER thing you can blame on Josh Fields. :smile:]

Since I can only find my most recent 500 posts, you can't find it here. But I ASSURE you: I wanted KW to launch Josh Fields after 2007.

EDIT: Fields' numbers in AAA in 2006 had him hitting .305 with an OBP of .379. He struck out a lot, but showed the ability to hit for average and get on base in a full AAA season.
And look at Josh Fields' K totals throughout his minor league career, not "just" his 2006 season. Look at his inconsistent power numbers in his minor league career. Look at the gargantuan error totals in his minor league career. [Yes, I know errors only tell ~10% of a player's defensive attributes, but it was pretty indicative of what sort of defender he would become.]

When you look at the totality of his minor league numbers, you could pretty easily tell that 2007 was an outlier. You could tell that Josh Fields' MLB production was already forecast by his minor league numbers.

If you line up Fields' minor league numbers against those of Crede's, you could tell which guy was "figuring it out" as he was advanced, and which one was going to suck in MLB.

khan
04-28-2010, 11:30 AM
Back to McCarthy, I was baffled by that trade, it wasn't that I hated Danks but they were both young pitchers with lots of potential who were praised (though Danks was more praised) but had no track record. It seemed like we were just swapping prospects and I thought the 2007 was ready to contend (and Danks was actually a little behind in terms of development than McCarthy) and I didn't get it.
I actually liked the McCarthy trade, given that it was a lefty pitching prospect coming back for the righty. [An organization can't have too many of those, be they SPs or an improvement on Randy Williams.]

I also liked it because of the inclusion of Nick Masset. It seemed like a 2-for-1 deal in our favor. Since the SOX's minor league system always seems to be short of prospects, I liked adding 2 legit pitching prospects.


Of course, I was higher on Nick Masset than I was on John Danks back then, so I can't claim to be able to predict the future. :redface:

WhiteSox5187
04-28-2010, 12:31 PM
Actually, this is why I laugh at the second guessers here when Kenny makes a deal. As much public information we have on a player, Kenny has a heck of a lot more at his disposal. This is even more true with prospects that we really don't know in other organizations. It is obvious that Kenny had information on Danks and Floyd that winter which made them more attractive to him than to us.

Unless we're talking about someone who has been in The Show for more than a full year, we don't have the amount of reports, etc., on some other team's guy that Kenny has.

I know that Kenny (and every GM in baseball) has much more information available to him than any one who posts here or is in the general public or is even a writer for a paper or ESPN or whatever. But second guessing is part of the fun of being a fan. If done right it can make for an interesting discussion on what Kenny is doing, whether or not you would do that as well, etc. I don't mind ripping Kenny for a trade that I don't like at the time, but if the trade winds up working I have to come back and say "Oops, I was wrong!" and I've done that a LOT.

TheVulture
05-02-2010, 08:01 PM
Idk about that. Teahen hasn't done anything yet to show that he'll be an above average players just yet.


He doesn't have to be above average for it to be a good trade, below average is much better than worthless.

Dibbs
05-02-2010, 08:59 PM
Looks like we definitely ended up with the better side on that trade. I must say though, I think we really messed with B-Mac (does this go through these days?). We do that with a lot of prospects it seems.

Frontman
05-02-2010, 09:59 PM
Looks like we definitely ended up with the better side on that trade. I must say though, I think we really messed with B-Mac (does this go through these days?). We do that with a lot of prospects it seems.

How so? Because he wouldn't go to AAA or because nobody believed his crying garbage about his "psyche" when it comes to starting pitching versus relief pitching?

Dibbs
05-02-2010, 11:05 PM
How so? Because he wouldn't go to AAA or because nobody believed his crying garbage about his "psyche" when it comes to starting pitching versus relief pitching?


Leaving him off the playoff roster in 2005 after he was dominating was one thing. Putting him in the pen to start 2006 was just poor judgment. We mess with a lot of prospects, not just McCarthy. Anyway, I am glad we have Danks, and hopefully Brandon gets healthy.

Mohoney
05-03-2010, 05:34 AM
I'd take average. That would be a massive improvement over Fields...

Not at $5 million a year, it's not.