PDA

View Full Version : Alexei D


kufram
04-26-2010, 08:46 AM
Ok, we all know TCM has not hit his stride at the plate yet, but that is not new for April. No need to comment on offense here.

I watch afternoon games live on mlb.tv because that is evening time for me. It seems to me that Alexei is making far better throws to first. Konerko isn't having to dig so many out of the dirt. I also wonder if his footwork is improving. Maybe Vasquez (sp?) is having a positive impact?

Last year I was for keeping Getz and letting Beckham stay at third but I like our infield now. I can see TCM/Beckham becoming a great tandem. I also think Teahen is fine.

hi im skot
04-26-2010, 09:19 AM
Ok, we all know TCM has not hit his stride at the plate yet, but that is not new for April. No need to comment on offense here.

I watch afternoon games live on mlb.tv because that is evening time for me. It seems to me that Alexei is making far better throws to first. Konerko isn't having to dig so many out of the dirt. I also wonder if his footwork is improving. Maybe Vasquez (sp?) is having a positive impact?

Last year I was for keeping Getz and letting Beckham stay at third but I like our infield now. I can see TCM/Beckham becoming a great tandem. I also think Teahen is fine.

:?:

Vizquel?

Rohan
04-26-2010, 09:46 AM
Ok, we all know TCM has not hit his stride at the plate yet, but that is not new for April. No need to comment on offense here.

I watch afternoon games live on mlb.tv because that is evening time for me. It seems to me that Alexei is making far better throws to first. Konerko isn't having to dig so many out of the dirt. I also wonder if his footwork is improving. Maybe Vasquez (sp?) is having a positive impact?

Last year I was for keeping Getz and letting Beckham stay at third but I like our infield now. I can see TCM/Beckham becoming a great tandem. I also think Teahen is fine.


:vazquez:
"What the heck? Leave me alone..."

LITTLE NELL
04-26-2010, 10:02 AM
His D is fine but his plate discipline stinks, that at bat on Sunday after Teahens double was pathetic.

kufram
04-26-2010, 10:46 AM
:?:

Vizquel?

err, ahem.. yes of course you are right, Vizquel. I must have been temporarily insane.

Still... are TCM's throws better and is Omar Visquel having an impact?

kufram
04-26-2010, 10:53 AM
His D is fine but his plate discipline stinks, that at bat on Sunday after Teahens double was pathetic.

I was trying to avoid the obvious batting deficiencies.. that can be addressed in another thread if you want. But do you agree that his D is better than last year? I think there were some complaints and certainly some errors saved by Paulie. In a tight ninth recently (aren't they all tight of late?) a ground ball went to him and I could hear panic in Hawk's voice when it did... but he put the throw right on the money. Last year the throw would have been hurried and in the dirt.

LITTLE NELL
04-26-2010, 11:51 AM
I was trying to avoid the obvious batting deficiencies.. that can be addressed in another thread if you want. But do you agree that his D is better than last year? I think there were some complaints and certainly some errors saved by Paulie. In a tight ninth recently (aren't they all tight of late?) a ground ball went to him and I could hear panic in Hawk's voice when it did... but he put the throw right on the money. Last year the throw would have been hurried and in the dirt.

Last year he struggled with his D the first few months, he was lackadaisical and lacked concentration and it was due to his usual early season slump. He was pouting and IIRC Ozzie read him the riot act and he turned his whole game around.
I agree he's looking better this year than the beginning of last year.

JC456
04-26-2010, 05:02 PM
Last year he struggled with his D the first few months, he was lackadaisical and lacked concentration and it was due to his usual early season slump. He was pouting and IIRC Ozzie read him the riot act and he turned his whole game around.
I agree he's looking better this year than the beginning of last year.

I disagree. Anyone see the three errors in the late innings against the Twins? Lost the game. He can personally lose games more frequently because of his d than anyone in two years. He isn't a short stop sorry!!! He was a much better player at 2nd.

His head isn't in the game quite frequently. The camera zooms in and he looks like he is just arrived at disney world.

JC456
04-26-2010, 05:04 PM
I disagree. Anyone see the three errors in the late innings against the Twins? Lost the game. He can personally lose games more frequently because of his d than anyone in two years. He isn't a short stop sorry!!! He was a much better player at 2nd.

His head isn't in the game quite frequently. The camera zooms in and he looks like he is just arrived at disney world.

this is the big leagues, you don't learn to play shortstop here. You learn in the minors. I believe this is the reason for his poor at bats. But hey, that's just me from what i watch.

soltrain21
04-26-2010, 05:09 PM
The camera zooms in and he looks like he is just arrived at disney world.


:rolling:

It's so true.

kufram
04-26-2010, 06:04 PM
this is the big leagues, you don't learn to play shortstop here. You learn in the minors. I believe this is the reason for his poor at bats. But hey, that's just me from what i watch.

But over the year as a whole his offensive production is good. How do you explain his good at bats? He has a poor start and then goes on a tear.

Actually, never mind that. I was asking a particular question. Has his throwing and footwork markedly improved over last year and can that be because of Omar Vizquel? Surely, that is a big reason Vizquel was brought in... to mentor the young middle infielders. I think it is working.

TDog
04-26-2010, 06:24 PM
this is the big leagues, you don't learn to play shortstop here. You learn in the minors. I believe this is the reason for his poor at bats. But hey, that's just me from what i watch.

Ramirez overall is playing better at short than Beckham is at second. You can blame Ramirez for losing the 11-inning game against the Twins, but the White Sox win that game in 9 if in the 7th Pierre drives in Ramirez from third with one out, or even if Beckham drives in Ramirez from third with two outs. Or if Teahen doesn't hit into a doubleplay with two on and one out in the 9th. There is plenty of blame to go around.

Ramirez even has had fewer bad at bats than the two hitters at the top of the order. Relative to the rest of the team, Ramirez isn't nearly the problem you make him out to be.

UChicagoHP
04-26-2010, 09:12 PM
Ramirez overall is playing better at short than Beckham is at second. You can blame Ramirez for losing the 11-inning game against the Twins, but the White Sox win that game in 9 if in the 7th Pierre drives in Ramirez from third with one out, or even if Beckham drives in Ramirez from third with two outs. Or if Teahen doesn't hit into a doubleplay with two on and one out in the 9th. There is plenty of blame to go around.

Ramirez even has had fewer bad at bats than the two hitters at the top of the order. Relative to the rest of the team, Ramirez isn't nearly the problem you make him out to be.

Agreed....

I think Alexei has improved his D in a significant way, maybe Omar has something to with that...the guy was one and probably still is one of the best defensive players that position has ever had, maybe he can teach a bit as well? Who knows...

And his bat? I'm fairly confident it will come around towards the middle of May and continue to produce above average numbers at the SS position through August. Unfortunately, come playoff time, when it gets a tad bit nipply, he probably 'aint the best option at SS. This is just a guess based on what we have seen Alexei do so far in his short career. When it's cold out, he sucks...lol...hopefully he can change this view THIS October!:gulp:

TDog
04-26-2010, 09:23 PM
Agreed....

I think Alexei has improved his D in a significant way, maybe Omar has something to with that...the guy was one and probably still is one of the best defensive players that position has ever had, maybe he can teach a bit as well? Who knows...

And his bat? I'm fairly confident it will come around towards the middle of May and continue to produce above average numbers at the SS position through August. Unfortunately, come playoff time, when it gets a tad bit nipply, he probably 'aint the best option at SS. This is just a guess based on what we have seen Alexei do so far in his short career. When it's cold out, he sucks...lol...hopefully he can change this view THIS October!:gulp:

It was Ramirez in Game 162 at the end of September in 2008 who hit the grand slam against the Tigers that led to Game 163 in which the Twins pitched around Ramirez, walking him twice.

Of course, no one hit well against Tampa Bay in the ALCS, except Wise.

Last year, Cabrera said he believed his departure from the Sox hurt Ramirez, not just because he was a veteran and Getz was a rookie, but because he spoke Spanish. I don't know how much credibility I put in Cabrera, but it looks like bringing Vizquel over has helped Ramirez.

kufram
04-27-2010, 05:10 AM
It was Ramirez in Game 162 at the end of September in 2008 who hit the grand slam against the Tigers that led to Game 163 in which the Twins pitched around Ramirez, walking him twice.

Of course, no one hit well against Tampa Bay in the ALCS, except Wise.

Last year, Cabrera said he believed his departure from the Sox hurt Ramirez, not just because he was a veteran and Getz was a rookie, but because he spoke Spanish. I don't know how much credibility I put in Cabrera, but it looks like bringing Vizquel over has helped Ramirez.

Yeah, I'm not sure about Cabrera's value in that department either. Contreras was there when Ramirez arrived and they had some history and of course the language in common.... but I don't think Jose was a guy to give SS defensive advice! Who better than Vizquel to do the job?

These days everyone wants a quick fix for every problem and not just in baseball. In this instance I think patience is the answer. Except for Konerko we have an infield that can grow together and be very good for at least a few years, given time.

asindc
04-27-2010, 08:57 AM
Yeah, I'm not sure about Cabrera's value in that department either. Contreras was there when Ramirez arrived and they had some history and of course the language in common.... but I don't think Jose was a guy to give SS defensive advice! Who better than Vizquel to do the job?

These days everyone wants a quick fix for every problem and not just in baseball. In this instance I think patience is the answer. Except for Konerko we have an infield that can grow together and be very good for at least a few years, given time.

Very well said.

JC456
04-27-2010, 11:09 AM
Ramirez overall is playing better at short than Beckham is at second. You can blame Ramirez for losing the 11-inning game against the Twins, but the White Sox win that game in 9 if in the 7th Pierre drives in Ramirez from third with one out, or even if Beckham drives in Ramirez from third with two outs. Or if Teahen doesn't hit into a doubleplay with two on and one out in the 9th. There is plenty of blame to go around.

Ramirez even has had fewer bad at bats than the two hitters at the top of the order. Relative to the rest of the team, Ramirez isn't nearly the problem you make him out to be.

Sorry I agree to disagree with you. In that game there was a runner at first in the eighth inning when Danks picks off the runner at first. Konerko throws to Ramirez who drops the ball. that run scored the tying run. then in the 11th a ground ball to him for at least a force is booted, not once but twice in the same play giving up two bases. the run wins the game.

Failure to drive in runs is this teams biggest problem, so when sure outs are just nonchalantly given back to the opposition, then there is a bigger problem. And that isn't the only game, that just happened to be one I was at. And oh BTW, he did the same thing at a game I was at last year. four errors in one game. I've never seen that before, four errors by one guy. This Ramirez guy is often not in the game. AS I stated earlier like he just arrived at disney world.

If you notice, Beckham now takes all throws from first base no matter who is at bat. If I was Danks, I would have taken it to him myself later in the club house.

JC456
04-27-2010, 11:17 AM
But over the year as a whole his offensive production is good. How do you explain his good at bats? He has a poor start and then goes on a tear.

Actually, never mind that. I was asking a particular question. Has his throwing and footwork markedly improved over last year and can that be because of Omar Vizquel? Surely, that is a big reason Vizquel was brought in... to mentor the young middle infielders. I think it is working.

He just doesn't get it! Period. He doesn't understand he is in the big leagues in the US. IMO He insults the game by his lack of integrity to it. He mopes around in the field, he doesn't pay attention to what is ongoing in front of him often. I'll repeat, this is the majors and you don't learn up here. I will take Jason Nix before him. At least his errors I can live with, I can't handle four in a game by Ramirez. Sorry!

SephClone89
04-27-2010, 11:19 AM
I will take Jason Nix before him. At least his errors I can live with, I can't handle four in a game by Ramirez. Sorry!

Now, that's just absolutely foolish. We're bordering on BA territory here now.

JC456
04-27-2010, 11:21 AM
Now, that's just absolutely foolish. We're bordering on BA territory here now.

That's okay, it is my opinion. I will take Nix over him in a heart beat. I know he will at least dive for a ball.

SephClone89
04-27-2010, 11:26 AM
That's okay, it is my opinion. I will take Nix over him in a heart beat. I know he will at least dive for a ball.

Alexei's career fielding PCT is .973

Nix's is .966

And this is ignoring the batting averages (.277 vs .209), OBP, SLG, and OPS.

All I can say is...thank God you don't manage the Chicago White Sox.

spawn
04-27-2010, 11:26 AM
I will take Jason Nix before him. At least his errors I can live with, I can't handle four in a game by Ramirez. Sorry!
:rolling:

Wow. Just wow. To borrow a phrase for Daver...Jayson Nix plays shortstop like my ass chews gum. :rolling:

JC456
04-27-2010, 11:35 AM
:rolling:

Wow. Just wow. To borrow a phrase for Daver...Jayson Nix plays shortstop like my ass chews gum. :rolling:

So now you know how bad Ramirez is!!:dtroll:

JC456
04-27-2010, 11:37 AM
Alexei's career fielding PCT is .973

Nix's is .966

And this is ignoring the batting averages (.277 vs .209), OBP, SLG, and OPS.

All I can say is...thank God you don't manage the Chicago White Sox.

Let Ramirez come off the bench and then let's compare the stats and fielding averages. Apples to oranges right now.

spawn
04-27-2010, 11:40 AM
So now you know how bad Ramirez is!!:dtroll:
Yeah...ok. No, I saw enough of Nix at short last season to make me believe he is a horrible shortstop. I'll echo SephClone89...I'm ecstatic that you aren't managing the White Sox. I can only imagine how bad this team's infield defense would be if Nix is run out to short for over 140 games a season. His best position is 2nd. If you can't see that, then I don't know what to tell you. :shrug:

SephClone89
04-27-2010, 11:40 AM
Let Ramirez come off the bench and then let's compare the stats and fielding averages. Apples to oranges right now.

If Nix ever puts up the offensive numbers that Ramirez has over the course of a season, I will eat a proverbial hat.

kufram
04-27-2010, 11:40 AM
Willy Mays comes to mind. He made some bad mistakes in his rookie year by his own admission. After one particularly bad one that cost a game he was the last player in the locker room hanging his head in tears. His manager, Leo Durocher, found him. Willy wanted to quit. Durocher looked him in the eye and said "YOU are MY centerfielder". Leo Durocher was no softie but he knew the kid had talent. Things got better. I heard Durocher tell that story once... it was better when he told it.

My point is that you CAN'T learn to play major league baseball in the minors. You should learn the skills required to play in the majors but baseball is not like football or basketball. Some players take a couple of years to find their confidence, for lack of a better word. Rookie mistakes are always going to be made... not always by rookies... sometimes by second or third year Cubans. Gordon Beckham didn't know how many outs there were when on third one game last year. He learned the most fundamental lesson of baserunning on a big stage. But the talent is there to be a great shortstop/second base combination. I'm sure other people who have been to games can quote great plays that Alexei has made and even games he has won for us.

spawn
04-27-2010, 11:43 AM
If Nix ever puts up the offensive numbers that Ramirez has over the course of a season, I will eat a proverbial hat.
I'd eat my own shorts.

JC456
04-27-2010, 11:45 AM
If Nix ever puts up the offensive numbers that Ramirez has over the course of a season, I will eat a proverbial hat.

Well we may never see that since this organization thinks Ramirez is an Omar Visquel. Which he ain't and never will. He doesn't have the desire.

JC456
04-27-2010, 11:46 AM
I'd eat my own shorts.

Nicesh!

SephClone89
04-27-2010, 11:48 AM
Well we may never see that since this organization thinks Ramirez is an Omar Visquel. Which he ain't and never will. He doesn't have the desire.

:rolleyes:

Frankly, when it comes down to it, I don't give a damn about "desire." I'll take Alexei's occasional terrific defense and solid offense over Nix's grindy desire any day of the week.

JC456
04-27-2010, 11:48 AM
Willy Mays comes to mind. He made some bad mistakes in his rookie year by his own admission. After one particularly bad one that cost a game he was the last player in the locker room hanging his head in tears. His manager, Leo Durocher, found him. Willy wanted to quit. Durocher looked him in the eye and said "YOU are MY centerfielder". Leo Durocher was no softie but he knew the kid had talent. Things got better. I heard Durocher tell that story once... it was better when he told it.

My point is that you CAN'T learn to play major league baseball in the minors. You should learn the skills required to play in the majors but baseball is not like football or basketball. Some players take a couple of years to find their confidence, for lack of a better word. Rookie mistakes are always going to be made... not always by rookies... sometimes by second or third year Cubans. Gordon Beckham didn't know how many outs there were when on third one game last year. He learned the most fundamental lesson of baserunning on a big stage. But the talent is there to be a great shortstop/second base combination. I'm sure other people who have been to games can quote great plays that Alexei has made and even games he has won for us.

And those great plays were most likely at second. I saw some from there. All I'm saying is he isn't a shortstop. So what I am saying is stop trying to push a square peg through a round hole.

spawn
04-27-2010, 11:53 AM
And those great plays were most likely at second. I saw some from there. All I'm saying is he isn't a shortstop. So what I am saying is stop trying to push a square peg through a round hole.
And what makes you believe Nix is? Because he can dive for a ball? What plays at SS last season made you sit back and think "There's our shortstop"?

kufram
04-27-2010, 11:55 AM
And those great plays were most likely at second. I saw some from there. All I'm saying is he isn't a shortstop. So what I am saying is stop trying to push a square peg through a round hole.

No, some of those plays were at short last year. I'm happy to disagree with you and I can see your point. When TCM makes a mistake it is a big one, but the flaws are being honed off this year by a master. I think he is going to be a great shortstop.

JC456
04-27-2010, 12:16 PM
No, some of those plays were at short last year. I'm happy to disagree with you and I can see your point. When TCM makes a mistake it is a big one, but the flaws are being honed off this year by a master. I think he is going to be a great shortstop.

Hey, if he does start to perform as you think he will than I'm all for it, however, it has been some time and I just don't see it. I base this on his positioning in the field he doesn't look comfortable. It is very hard IMO to play well when you're not comfortable.

He looks out of position.

JC456
04-27-2010, 12:20 PM
And what makes you believe Nix is? Because he can dive for a ball? What plays at SS last season made you sit back and think "There's our shortstop"?
No, I look at the way a player moves on pitches when the play isn't in his direction. I see him ready to play, I often see Ramirez not ready to play or confused at where to be. I know you've seen that if you watch the games. Hey, this isn't against you or anyone else here it is what I see. You can't change that. I'm honestly looking at what I see and I would place a bet there are many others on here who've seen what I've seen. Now is Nix a great player? I don't know since he only gets spot starts. But I, yes I am willing to let him have a quarter to see. Sometimes you have to open up the cupboard to find good talent.

BTW, I actually like Getz over Beckham at 2nd. I was all for leaving Beckham at third.

spawn
04-27-2010, 12:23 PM
No, I look at the way a player moves on pitches when the play isn't in his direction. I see him ready to play, I often see Ramirez not ready to play or confused at where to be. I know you've seen that if you watch the games. Hey, this isn't against you or anyone else here it is what I see. You can't change that. I'm honestly looking at what I see and I would place a bet there are many others on here who've seen what I've seen. Now is Nix a great player? I don't know since he only gets spot starts. But I, yes I am willing to let him have a quarter to see. Sometimes you have to open up the cupboard to find good talent.
So that's your criteria for determining if a players is going to be good at a given position? Because he doesn't look "ready to play"? Yikes.

JC456
04-27-2010, 12:34 PM
So that's your criteria for determining if a players is going to be good at a given position? Because he doesn't look "ready to play"? Yikes.
yep!

How do you think scouts do it? Maybe you've never played organized ball before, but you can tell who is and isn't ready to play. And you also can tell by the performance.

He can't go in the hole, he can't, he can't, he can't. That is the most important play for a shortstop.

I guess you omitted my comments on his reactions on purpose?

BTW, there are many other errors that are not put up on the board. i.e., like covering second on a steal, he is late frequently to receive a throw or isn't ready to receive a throw. That's just one other area, and I have more that he doesn't do well. Like his throws to first on a double play are horrible. Yeah I know, I'm just stupid in your eyes, but you know what, I know what I see. You play the blind man part and ignore the facts.

spawn
04-27-2010, 12:41 PM
y
I guess you omitted my comments on his reactions on purpose?
Nope. What I responded to was enough.

I also don't feel the need to discuss this with you any longer. I have no idea who you're watching, but we're definitely not watching the same player. :shrug:

Jim Shorts
04-27-2010, 12:41 PM
Hey, if he does start to perform as you think he will than I'm all for it, however, it has been some time and I just don't see it. I base this on his positioning in the field he doesn't look comfortable. It is very hard IMO to play well when you're not comfortable.

He looks out of position.

He had one year at short, his second in the bigs. Alexei is the only guy on the Sox not allowed a Sophomore slump.

TDog
04-27-2010, 12:43 PM
....
Failure to drive in runs is this teams biggest problem, so when sure outs are just nonchalantly given back to the opposition, then there is a bigger problem. And that isn't the only game, that just happened to be one I was at. And oh BTW, he did the same thing at a game I was at last year. four errors in one game. I've never seen that before, four errors by one guy. This Ramirez guy is often not in the game. AS I stated earlier like he just arrived at disney world. ...

Beckham is one of the least successful hitters on the White Sox in driving in runs, both in hitting with runners in scoring position and with driving in runners from third with less than two outs. Ramirez has been much better. Beckham has had problems both with the feeds to Ramirez on the 4-6-3 doubleplays and the pivot on the 6-4-3 and 5-4-3 double plays. He has probably given the opposition more outs on defense than Ramirez has. Granted, by all accounts he seems to be getting better as the season progresses, learning the position at the major league level, not having been a great middle infielder in college, but you are focusing on one game from a couple of weeks ago that you blame Ramirez for losing on defense, although the White Sox could have won the game if Beckham had the success of hitting with runners in scoring position that Ramirez has had (although there hasn't been much of a difference in their overall hitting, despite Beckham getting off to a much better start).

Ron Santo once made three errors in an inning and people rave about his defense in arguing that he belongs in the Hall of Fame. Willie Davis was considered a very good outfielder, but he made three errors in the fifth inning of Game 2 of the 1966 World Series. And they were bad errors that led to Sandy Koufax losing the game. Stuff happens.

I'm sorry Ramirez ruined your night at the ballpark, and I'm sorry you don't understand the nuances of the game well enough to recognize that other people who helped ruin your night at the ballpark. Sadly, losing this season has been a true team effort. I'm also sorry you feel the need to hate White Sox players you blame for ruining your night at the ballpark.

But Ramirez far from being the weakest link on this team or even a problem that needs to be addressed.

JC456
04-27-2010, 12:47 PM
Beckham is one of the least successful hitters on the White Sox in driving in runs, both in hitting with runners in scoring position and with driving in runners from third with less than two outs. Ramirez has been much better. Beckham has had problems both with the feeds to Ramirez on the 4-6-3 doubleplays and the pivot on the 6-4-3 and 5-4-3 double plays. He has probably given the opposition more outs on defense than Ramirez has. Granted, by all accounts he seems to be getting better as the season progresses, learning the position at the major league level, not having been a great middle infielder in college, but you are focusing on one game from a couple of weeks ago that you blame Ramirez for losing on defense, although the White Sox could have won the game if Beckham had the success of hitting with runners in scoring position that Ramirez has had (although there hasn't been much of a difference in their overall hitting, despite Beckham getting off to a much better start).

Ron Santo once made three errors in an inning and people rave about his defense in arguing that he belongs in the Hall of Fame. Willie Davis was considered a very good outfielder, but he made three errors in the fifth inning of Game 2 of the 1966 World Series. And they were bad errors that led to Sandy Koufax losing the game. Stuff happens.

I'm sorry Ramirez ruined your night at the ballpark, and I'm sorry you don't understand the nuances of the game well enough to recognize that other people who helped ruin your night at the ballpark. Sadly, losing this season has been a true team effort. I'm also sorry you feel the need to hate White Sox players you blame for ruining your night at the ballpark.

But Ramirez far from being the weakest link on this team or even a problem that needs to be addressed.

Sorry you don't understand and wish to ignore the facts of Ramirez. Beckham is playing a new position and I gave Ramirez a year before criticizing him. 2nd base isn't Beckham's position, and I was against that move and I mentioned that in another post, He was better at third, I'd still take him there. The facts are Ramirez doesn't know the shortstop position to play it well. As I state, he can't get to the hole, he can't cover the bag, and the mention of pivots are more than Beckham's fault and you know it.

So don't tell me that I don't know the nuances of the game. I'll take you on anyday on what position is supposed to do what and when and why each and every one. bring it on. That won't change the fact that Ramirez is out of position.

TDog
04-27-2010, 01:11 PM
Sorry you don't understand and wish to ignore the facts of Ramirez. Beckham is playing a new position and I gave Ramirez a year before criticizing him. 2nd base isn't Beckham's position, and I was against that move and I mentioned that in another post, He was better at third, I'd still take him there. The facts are Ramirez doesn't know the shortstop position to play it well. As I state, he can't get to the hole, he can't cover the bag, and the mention of pivots are more than Beckham's fault and you know it.

So don't tell me that I don't know the nuances of the game. I'll take you on anyday on what position is supposed to do what and when and why each and every one. bring it on. That won't change the fact that Ramirez is out of position.

It's possible you are a major league scout and I don't know it, of course. Most of us post fairly anonymously here, and often you don't really know who you are responding to. Judging from what you are writing, and judging from postings from people whose credentials I am acquainted with, however, the evidence points to you being over your head in this discussion.

Maybe tonight Beckham will drive in a runner from third base with less than two outs for the first time this season, Ramirez will drive in a run, the two will combine on a couple of slick doubleplays and the two outs and the White Sox will win their fourth straight game and the irrational hate some White Sox fans feel for some White Sox players will subside.

JC456
04-27-2010, 01:48 PM
It's possible you are a major league scout and I don't know it, of course. Most of us post fairly anonymously here, and often you don't really know who you are responding to. Judging from what you are writing, and judging from postings from people whose credentials I am acquainted with, however, the evidence points to you being over your head in this discussion.

Maybe tonight Beckham will drive in a runner from third base with less than two outs for the first time this season, Ramirez will drive in a run, the two will combine on a couple of slick doubleplays and the two outs and the White Sox will win their fourth straight game and the irrational hate some White Sox fans feel for some White Sox players will subside.

Look at Jason Bay now playing for the Mets, 5 RBIs. He was basically a one man RBI machine in Boston. One never knows, but I believe a player needs to be comfortable to produce.

TDog
04-27-2010, 03:06 PM
Look at Jason Bay now playing for the Mets, 5 RBIs. He was basically a one man RBI machine in Boston. One never knows, but I believe a player needs to be comfortable to produce.

Are you suggesting that Gordon Beckham might produce if he were traded to the Braves where he might feel more comfortable?

JC456
04-27-2010, 05:57 PM
Are you suggesting that Gordon Beckham might produce if he were traded to the Braves where he might feel more comfortable?

Did I say that?

JC456
04-27-2010, 05:58 PM
He had one year at short, his second in the bigs. Alexei is the only guy on the Sox not allowed a Sophomore slump.

I love how you can just give out passes. I don't. It's that simple.

JC456
04-27-2010, 06:01 PM
Nope. What I responded to was enough.

I also don't feel the need to discuss this with you any longer. I have no idea who you're watching, but we're definitely not watching the same player. :shrug:

I'll never be just a kool aide driker like you. I open my eyes and see the facts. and you choose to ignore them. That's fair. Enjoy the drink! it won't be much longer that Rameriz is there anyway. Again, the league caught up to him and he has little shortstop skills.

spawn
04-27-2010, 06:17 PM
I'll never be just a kool aide driker like you. I open my eyes and see the facts. and you choose to ignore them. That's fair. Enjoy the drink! it won't be much longer that Rameriz is there anyway. Again, the league caught up to him and he has little shortstop skills.
Whatever dude. :rolleyes:

TDog
04-27-2010, 08:26 PM
Did I say that?

Beckham isn't producing on offense, and hasn't since the league caught up with him about the time that he was moved to the No. 2 spot in the lineup last August. He isn't playing great defense. Unless you're drinking Beckham Kool-Aid, you have to be talking about Beckham.

fram40
04-27-2010, 11:29 PM
It seems to me that Alexei is making far better throws to first. Konerko isn't having to dig so many out of the dirt. I also wonder if his footwork is improving. Maybe Vasquez (sp?) is having a positive impact?



I said the exact same thing Sunday - Alexei's throws are much much better. Right at Konerko's chest most of the time. He also had a two out RBI tonight. I like TCM at short. Defensively, he is improving and should continue to improve

kufram
04-28-2010, 05:39 AM
I'll never be just a kool aide driker like you. I open my eyes and see the facts. and you choose to ignore them. That's fair. Enjoy the drink! it won't be much longer that Rameriz is there anyway. Again, the league caught up to him and he has little shortstop skills.

Everybody is entitled to their opinion. Obviously, we are in disagreement about what we are seeing. I'm no baseball dummy myself. I watch what a player does on the field and you watch what he doesn't do. I choose to be positive about Alexei without the help of any company bias. I was worried when we traded Uribe because that guy was worth a lot on the infield and was a dangerous 9 hitter. He had glaring faults, though, too.

We will see who is right in time but I, for one, hope we stick with this infield and let them grow together. That doesn't happen the way it used to but we have these guys for awhile unless another team thinks Alexei is worth more than we do. That is always possible. Nix ain't the answer at short in my opinion.

JC456
04-28-2010, 10:32 AM
Everybody is entitled to their opinion. Obviously, we are in disagreement about what we are seeing. I'm no baseball dummy myself. I watch what a player does on the field and you watch what he doesn't do. I choose to be positive about Alexei without the help of any company bias. I was worried when we traded Uribe because that guy was worth a lot on the infield and was a dangerous 9 hitter. He had glaring faults, though, too.

We will see who is right in time but I, for one, hope we stick with this infield and let them grow together. That doesn't happen the way it used to but we have these guys for awhile unless another team thinks Alexei is worth more than we do. That is always possible. Nix ain't the answer at short in my opinion.

I did not watch the game last evening, but did see the box score. Nix sucked and Ramirez at least came through once. the disappointment from what I can see in the wrap up was Pierre, Nix and Lucy 10 LOB between the three of them. Not sure what the defensive numbers were, but the same offensive woes continued.

Left handed starters continue to puzzle the great White Sox organization. No one in management has an answer or solution. Have Mercy!

Jim Shorts
04-28-2010, 10:52 AM
I'll never be just a kool aide driker like you. I open my eyes and see the facts. and you choose to ignore them. That's fair. Enjoy the drink! it won't be much longer that Rameriz is there anyway. Again, the league caught up to him and he has little shortstop skills.


I'm not really sure what you're seeing...

spawn
04-28-2010, 10:54 AM
I'm not really sure what you're seeing...
Me neither. But then again, I guess I must be drinking the kool aid.


http://www.edinformatics.com/inventions_inventors/Kool-AidMan.jpg

Jim Shorts
04-28-2010, 11:04 AM
I love how you can just give out passes. I don't. It's that simple.

You're giving the golden boy Beckham a pass.


Admit it, you just don't like Alexei. Which is fine. Just stop pretending that it's baseball related. Because it's telling of your knowledge of the game.

JC456
04-28-2010, 02:01 PM
Beckham isn't producing on offense, and hasn't since the league caught up with him about the time that he was moved to the No. 2 spot in the lineup last August. He isn't playing great defense. Unless you're drinking Beckham Kool-Aid, you have to be talking about Beckham.

I was refering to the Braves statement. When did I state he needed to be comfortable in Atlanta? I was comparing him to Jason Bay and how he is now in a different situation and isn't producing. And how he was a key element in Boston's success last year.

You're on a different planet with the Brave reference. Are you a Braves fan and would like to see him there or something.

Sorry missed how you got there.

JorgeFabregas
04-28-2010, 02:06 PM
Are we allowed to talk about defensive metrics here these days? The metric generally considered to be the best (UZR/150) has Alexei as an average-to-above-average shortstop through the small sample size of this season.

kufram
04-28-2010, 04:16 PM
Are we allowed to talk about defensive metrics here these days? The metric generally considered to be the best (UZR/150) has Alexei as an average-to-above-average shortstop through the small sample size of this season.


I like stats... but they are only part of a picture, and of course you can talk about anything here in my opinion. Everything contributes. My main point is Omar being a key this year without playing 1 inning. I never saw Ozzie play... the internet had not been invented. I'm taking Omar on reputation because he never played for the Sox. But Omar could be the key to a very good infield sooner than later.

UIt might be interesting to see how the metric measures Alexei so far this year against last year.