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View Full Version : You Make the Call: Keep/Fire Walker


TomBradley72
04-24-2010, 12:18 PM
What's your call?

tick53
04-24-2010, 12:30 PM
Sorry to say, can him now. We need a hitting coach who can develop guys like Beckham. The org needs a shake-up.

Lip Man 1
04-24-2010, 12:43 PM
It's not fair to blame one individual person but I think the time has come where something has to be done...it may only be change for changes sake but I feel it's time to make a statement of some sort.

Greg has had a long career in MLB, I'm sure he'll understand the nature of the business.

Lip

CLR01
04-24-2010, 12:52 PM
Can his worthless ass, march him and his family through the streets and allow us to stone them.

doublem23
04-24-2010, 12:52 PM
I voted to fire him, though I doubt that will be a slam dunk to make our hitters improve. However, with Walker, I sincerely doubt any one will be getting any better.

TomBradley72
04-24-2010, 12:53 PM
It's not fair to blame one individual person but I think the time has come where something has to be done...it may only be change for changes sake but I feel it's time to make a statement of some sort.

Greg has had a long career in MLB, I'm sure he'll understand the nature of the business.

Lip

Et tu Lip?

TheOldRoman
04-24-2010, 01:53 PM
http://ruthlessreviews.com/80saction/pics/firewalker1.jpg

Rockabilly
04-24-2010, 01:59 PM
Would love to see Ventura as our hitting coach..

Madvora
04-24-2010, 02:48 PM
If the situation the Sox are in doesn't call for the firing of a hitting coach, then what would?
Maybe we're going to have to wait for a sex scandal?

kufram
04-24-2010, 03:06 PM
I voted no opinion because I have no reason to believe firing Greg Walker will solve the offensive woes but the only way to prove that it won't is to fire him and find out. That seems like a callous way to treat someone who obviously cares about the organization.

Besides, if you want to "shake things up" then don't take a minor step... take the big step and fire Ozzie AND Kenny. THAT would be a big mistake in my opinion.

rdwj
04-24-2010, 03:15 PM
He needs to go.

Rikirk
04-24-2010, 03:28 PM
I know that theres a lot of people here that say its not walkers fault, that may or may not be so but ill cite my one major gripe...FAILING TO SCORE WITH BASES LOADED. Thats not a problem to other teams. And after so many years of hitting problems, theres something he aint doing right. Besides....new blood would be a good thing.

Lip Man 1
04-24-2010, 06:48 PM
Tom:

Not sure what you are implying.

The Sox have not had a lot of success offensively since July 2006, I think we can all agree on that point.

They have brought in numerous players during the next seasons, so they tried that approach.

The next logical step to me since the issues, remain despite different players, is the hitting coach.

After that it would be the field manager.

Finally the General Manager.

Like I said it may not be fair but it seems logical to me...there comes a point in time where different options have to be explored.

Lip

TomBradley72
04-24-2010, 07:07 PM
Tom:

Not sure what you are implying.

The Sox have not had a lot of success offensively since July 2006, I think we can all agree on that point.

They have brought in numerous players during the next seasons, so they tried that approach.

The next logical step to me since the issues, remain despite different players, is the hitting coach.

After that it would be the field manager.

Finally the General Manager.

Like I said it may not be fair but it seems logical to me...there comes a point in time where different options have to be explored.

Lip

I was just kidding Lip.

As far as our offense goes....I'd have a different logical progression...I start with KW. I believe roster make up has the bigger impact at the majore league level...more than either the hitting coach of the manager.

One continuous trend for this team has been low OBP...I believe that's driven by the players we are putting on the roster vs. Greg Walker.

Frater Perdurabo
04-24-2010, 08:58 PM
Having a roster filled with low-OBP hitters is a personnel issue.

But it's still Walker's responsibility to get the hitters he does have to execute situational hitting.

Not only are they not hitting for a high average, not only are the not getting on base, but they even are failing to make productive outs like hitting the ball to the right side to advance a runner and/or hit a sacrifice fly to bring home the run from third. They don't shorten their swings with two strikes, either.

All of this is on Walker.

Let me make an analogy. I teach at a community college. Is it our (my) fault that entering students cannot read, write or do math? No. But we're (I'm) still responsible to get them to learn to read, write and do math, and learn to acquire knowledge in their other subjects, before they graduate/transfer.

Guillen and Walker - and their staunch defenders - remind me of lousy teachers, hiding behind tenure, who want to place blame everywhere else so it excuses them for the abysmal success rates of their students.

The team may be filled with fundamentally unsound hitters. (Only Beckham and Lucy spent any time in the Sox minor league system, so blaming the Sox player development process is pointless.) But if the players on the MLB roster cannot do the fundamentals, Walker needs to take it upon himself to make sure the hitters learn and practice and execute them. (If it's too much of a burden, Cora, Baines and Guillen need to do it, too.)

jabrch
04-25-2010, 12:58 AM
The team may be filled with fundamentally unsound hitters. (Only Beckham and Lucy spent any time in the Sox minor league system, so blaming the Sox player development process is pointless.) But if the players on the MLB roster cannot do the fundamentals, Walker needs to take it upon himself to make sure the hitters learn and practice and execute them. (If it's too much of a burden, Cora, Baines and Guillen need to do it, too.)


So let me make sure I understand....seriously

You think it is the job of a major league baseball hitting coach to change the fundamental approach that veteran hitters have? The things they have been doing all their career - all their life - you think it is Walker's job to change all of that?

Is there an example you have of hitting instructors who, at the major league level, do this sort of work with effective results? I don't know too many hitting instructors - but I don't see it.

captain54
04-25-2010, 01:46 AM
You think it is the job of a major league baseball hitting coach to change the fundamental approach that veteran hitters have? The things they have been doing all their career - all their life - you think it is Walker's job to change all of that?



the names Charlie Lau and Walt Hriniak were mentioned in another related thread. go back and take a look at it. Then go do some research on MLB and White Sox history.

doublem23
04-25-2010, 03:56 AM
So let me make sure I understand....seriously

You think it is the job of a major league baseball hitting coach to change the fundamental approach that veteran hitters have? The things they have been doing all their career - all their life - you think it is Walker's job to change all of that?

Is there an example you have of hitting instructors who, at the major league level, do this sort of work with effective results? I don't know too many hitting instructors - but I don't see it.

Then fire Williams or Guillen for collecting this group of **** hitters.

southside rocks
04-25-2010, 06:44 AM
If the hitting coach were a real determinant in how a team will perform offensively in a season, there would be a fierce competition for hitting coaches who have been on WS and other winning teams. The Yankees hitting coach would be sought-after in the off-season and able to command a salary equal to that of a major-league ballplayer. Fans would look forward to the season based as much on their team's hitting coach as on the player acquisitions of the off-season.

The Yankees didn't win their 27th championship last season because Kevin Long was their hitting coach. They won because they spent an immense amount of money on players like Sabathia and Teixeira and Jeter and A-Rod and Burnett.

The Cubs publicized their hiring of Jaramillo not because they really thought he would bring a .315 team batting average with him but because the Cubs management is under incredible pressure after the franchise has failed to win a championship in more than 100 years. The failure has become the team's trademark and management will do anything and say anything to alleviate that pressure. Come on, holy water for the dugout? That right there tells you what the mentality is in THAT front office.

Plenty of Sox fans went into this season with high expectations for this team. I certainly did, based on the roster changes of the off-season. And when the team starts out by playing crappy baseball immediately, it's infuriating. Unmet expectations produce anger, everybody knows that. And anger wants a focus, and Walker has been chosen by a small and vocal group of people as the focus.

If Walker is fired and the offense doesn't improve, is it time for some holy water in the dugout?

doublem23
04-25-2010, 06:55 AM
If the hitting coach were a real determinant in how a team will perform offensively in a season, there would be a fierce competition for hitting coaches who have been on WS and other winning teams. The Yankees hitting coach would be sought-after in the off-season and able to command a salary equal to that of a major-league ballplayer. Fans would look forward to the season based as much on their team's hitting coach as on the player acquisitions of the off-season.

And this does not, in any way, go against what most of us in the Fire Walker side of the debate have been saying. You can't rank hitting coaches from 1-30 and say that #1 is obviously better than #2 or they're both way better than #15. Frank Thomas, maybe the greatest RH hitter in baseball history, was a staunch disciple of a guy who everyone else on the team hated. A baseball team is not just a sum of its parts, its a delicate mixture of personalities, philosophies, and talents. Greg Walker might be a great hitting coach, he might improve the offenses of 25 other teams in the Majors, but over the past several seasons, the Sox have not performed well under his tutelage. There's probably plenty of blame to go around for Kenny, Ozzie, the scouts, the minor league development staff, Greg Walker, the bat boys, the beer guys in the stands, some kid in Siberia whose never heard of baseball before...

All anyone has ever said is that maybe Walker doesn't mesh with this team right now. Maybe a change would be for the best. The Sox offense is horrible, a new hitting coach might not make any difference in the world, but we've seen the result's of Walker's instruction play out for a long, long time, so I would personally, if in a position to make this decision, fire Greg Walker and bring in someone different. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying he's a bad guy or that he should never get another chance in another organization or stay here in a different capacity. All I'm saying is that, I believe, in this situation, with these hitters, his approach is not working. Let's try something new.

WhiteSoxFTW
04-25-2010, 12:29 PM
All anyone has ever said is that maybe Walker doesn't mesh with this team right now. Maybe a change would be for the best. The Sox offense is horrible, a new hitting coach might not make any difference in the world, but we've seen the result's of Walker's instruction play out for a long, long time, so I would personally, if in a position to make this decision, fire Greg Walker and bring in someone different. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying he's a bad guy or that he should never get another chance in another organization or stay here in a different capacity. All I'm saying is that, I believe, in this situation, with these hitters, his approach is not working. Let's try something new.

:clap:

tstrike2000
04-25-2010, 01:37 PM
If Walker is fired, would like to have a hitting coach that's the best man for the job, not because he's an ex Sox player.

forrestg
04-25-2010, 05:04 PM
sox o for 10 in scoring opportunies today Seattle 1 for six. runs via hr still common way of scoring. Whose fault is this? Ozzie, walker, or is it our players not executing.

TomBradley72
04-25-2010, 05:42 PM
the names Charlie Lau and Walt Hriniak were mentioned in another related thread. go back and take a look at it. Then go do some research on MLB and White Sox history.

It's pretty telling that the only examples anyone mentions are Lau (passed away 26 years ago) and Hriniak (hasn't been ANY team's hitting coach since 1995)...can any provide an example from this century?

LoveYourSuit
04-25-2010, 05:47 PM
Just want to note that despite the 3 game winning streak, the team continues to have some dismal ABs at the plate.

Other than the timely HRs here and there, the offense still continues to struggle.

A change needs to be made.

Soxfest
04-26-2010, 12:03 PM
He should of been gone 2 years ago, He has done nothing to deserve to stay here!:angry:

masloan
04-26-2010, 12:14 PM
Having a roster filled with low-OBP hitters is a personnel issue.

But it's still Walker's responsibility to get the hitters he does have to execute situational hitting.

Not only are they not hitting for a high average, not only are the not getting on base, but they even are failing to make productive outs like hitting the ball to the right side to advance a runner and/or hit a sacrifice fly to bring home the run from third. They don't shorten their swings with two strikes, either.

All of this is on Walker.

Let me make an analogy. I teach at a community college. Is it our (my) fault that entering students cannot read, write or do math? No. But we're (I'm) still responsible to get them to learn to read, write and do math, and learn to acquire knowledge in their other subjects, before they graduate/transfer.

Guillen and Walker - and their staunch defenders - remind me of lousy teachers, hiding behind tenure, who want to place blame everywhere else so it excuses them for the abysmal success rates of their students.

The team may be filled with fundamentally unsound hitters. (Only Beckham and Lucy spent any time in the Sox minor league system, so blaming the Sox player development process is pointless.) But if the players on the MLB roster cannot do the fundamentals, Walker needs to take it upon himself to make sure the hitters learn and practice and execute them. (If it's too much of a burden, Cora, Baines and Guillen need to do it, too.)

I just do not see this as a proper analogy. A teacher is rarely help accountable if a student fails their course. Especially a college professor. The responsibility is on the student to put the effort in. You are telling me that if you are a calculus teacher, and you have a class full of students who have never taken a class above algebra, you should be help accountable when the perform poorly? I just do not agree with that.