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View Full Version : **Official** At Least We Scored This Time? 4/22 Postgame Thread


GoGoCrede
04-22-2010, 11:00 PM
Ugh. Rant away.

doublem23
04-22-2010, 11:00 PM
What a ****ing joke.

Tampa Bay 22, Sox 2 over the last 2 nights. Against our top 2 starters.

yazz32
04-22-2010, 11:01 PM
Some heads need to roll soon.. Anyone! I don't give a **** who gets axed ..

Rockabilly
04-22-2010, 11:02 PM
this team ****ing sucks..

We will lose the next series as well

thomas35forever
04-22-2010, 11:02 PM
Fire all the coaches! Fire Ozzie! Blow the team up and rebuild!

october23sp
04-22-2010, 11:03 PM
http://lesterslegends.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Jake-Peavy-White-Sox.jpg
But, but, I'm intense.

Brian26
04-22-2010, 11:03 PM
Not sure what is more painful to watch:

Juan Pierre taking six minutes to chase down a ball in the leftfield corner or Carlos Quentin making Jermaine Dye's range factor actually look good in RF.

Hartman
04-22-2010, 11:03 PM
If Kenny thinks the hitters are just cold at this point, he is sorely mistaken

LoveYourSuit
04-22-2010, 11:03 PM
Well, with Gavin and Garcia going the next two nights my confidence level does not get any higher.

aryzner
04-22-2010, 11:04 PM
I admit I turned the TV off tonight at a certain point.

VMSNS
04-22-2010, 11:04 PM
It's hard for players to produce when the manager doesn't put them in a position to succeed.

This team sucks. Bad. Changes must be made in some way.

sox1970
04-22-2010, 11:04 PM
Trip to Texas and New York next week...excellent.

GoGoCrede
04-22-2010, 11:04 PM
Not sure what is more painful to watch:

Juan Pierre taking six minutes to chase down a ball in the leftfield corner or Carlos Quentin making Jermaine Dye's range factor actually look good in RF.

The scary part is that RF is Quentin's natural position (or at least, the one he played the most prior to 2008).


I have tickets for this weekend....sigh....it felt like a ghost town on Wednesday.

DirtySox
04-22-2010, 11:04 PM
Is it still only an opinion that this team sucks?

doublem23
04-22-2010, 11:04 PM
Twins lost, so at least we're only still 6 games out of it!!!

Marqhead
04-22-2010, 11:05 PM
I'm glad there are other sports on to help keep me sane.

DickAllen72
04-22-2010, 11:05 PM
Twins lost, so at least we're only still 6 games out of it!!!
Whew!!!

thomas35forever
04-22-2010, 11:05 PM
It's hard for players to produce when the manager doesn't put them in a position to succeed.

This team sucks. Bad. Changes must be made in some way.
A manager can only do so much. In the end, it's the players who have to produce themselves.

doublem23
04-22-2010, 11:05 PM
Is it still only an opinion that this team sucks?

Of course, you could think they blow, or they're awful, or they're terrible, etc.

veeter
04-22-2010, 11:05 PM
Not sure what is more painful to watch:

Juan Pierre taking six minutes to chase down a ball in the leftfield corner or Carlos Quentin making Jermaine Dye's range factor actually look good in RF.How about AJ performing in a contract year? But really, the whole team sucks right now. Except Alex Rios and...oh yeah, Ozzie put him on the bench tonight.

JB98
04-22-2010, 11:05 PM
At least they can't feed us that line of **** about how they've been in every game anymore.

:anon:

sox1970
04-22-2010, 11:06 PM
Frank Thomas must be thinking, "I gotta talk about this **** all year?".

Tragg
04-22-2010, 11:06 PM
The team is barely competitive.
Lacks talent, and the best of it is often on the bench; and is poorly managed.

VMSNS
04-22-2010, 11:06 PM
The scary part is that RF is Quentin's natural position (or at least, the one he played the most prior to 2008).


I have tickets for this weekend....sigh....it felt like a ghost town on Wednesday.

I'm going Sunday, the day after my birthday. My first game this season. Hopefully, I won't have to get drunk to have a good time.

doublem23
04-22-2010, 11:07 PM
How about AJ performing in a contract year? But really, the whole team sucks right now. Except Alex Rios and...oh yeah, Ozzie put him on the bench tonight.

Dude, he played a whole 2 games since the off day Monday, you'll overextend the poor man.

october23sp
04-22-2010, 11:08 PM
dude, he played a whole 2 games since the off day monday, you'll overextend the poor man.

+1

Quentin08
04-22-2010, 11:08 PM
Twins lost, so at least we're only still 6 games out of it!!!

With 146 games left! :bandance::bandance:

yazz32
04-22-2010, 11:08 PM
Hell suit up Frank Thomas and Bill Melton if this garbage continues...

Brian26
04-22-2010, 11:08 PM
The scary part is that RF is Quentin's natural position (or at least, the one he played the most prior to 2008).


I have tickets for this weekend....sigh....it felt like a ghost town on Wednesday.

I'm convinced after three weeks that Quentin is an absolute butcher in RF. That spectacle he put on last night was embarrassing.

sox1970
04-22-2010, 11:08 PM
With 146 games left! :bandance::bandance:

Don't remind me. Ugh.

LoveYourSuit
04-22-2010, 11:09 PM
Frank Thomas must be thinking, "I gotta talk about this **** all year?".


Frank Thomas is saying, "and I was forced to retire?":scratch:

soltrain21
04-22-2010, 11:09 PM
Jones in right, Rios in center, TCQ in left. Go with that everyday.

Hit AJ second, Rios third and Jones 5th.

Pierre
AJ
Rios
Konerko
Jones
Teahen
TCQ
Beckham
Ramirez

Everyday. If it doesn't work - I got nothing.

tstrike2000
04-22-2010, 11:10 PM
Another gutless performance. No surprise why there's 47 people in the stands. If the team doesn't give a ****, then why should we?

manders_01
04-22-2010, 11:11 PM
Is it still only an opinion that this team sucks?

No, I don't think they suck. But, I can't explain their play right now. I think we have a team of great talent we just aren't, for whatever reason, seeing it.

I will admit, although I am still a fan of the Peavy trade, I am becoming a little concerned. I'm sure he'll right the ship soon but I hope soon is like within the next couple of weeks instead of within the next couple of months.

Dibbs
04-22-2010, 11:11 PM
Luckily I was at the Bulls game and didn't even bother to check updates. Nice 0-4 for Vizquel...way to go Oz!

GoGoCrede
04-22-2010, 11:11 PM
And I was sure home cooking would help greatly...

LoveYourSuit
04-22-2010, 11:11 PM
Hell suit up Frank Thomas and Bill Melton if this garbage continues...


Hell, are we losing much with Chuck Garfien playing SS and hitting for the lightweight Alexei?

Mr. Downtown
04-22-2010, 11:11 PM
I was razzed last night for my comments about the foul ball that Beckham didn't catch which ended up opening up the floodgates.

So who didn't start tonight. The foul ball that wasn't caught is the stuff that doesn't show up on anyone's stats, but which can effect everything.

cleanwsox
04-22-2010, 11:11 PM
So... any big names in the 2011 draft?

I'm getting numb to these losses and its April, ugh.

PhillipsBubba
04-22-2010, 11:12 PM
When do the Bears report to Bourbonnais:scratch:

http://www.espnjersey.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/30015b9db8adacdf8948938f9410534a/C/h/Chicago-Bears-No_90-Julius-Peppers-Navy-Blue-NFL-Football-Jersey_1.jpg

soltrain21
04-22-2010, 11:13 PM
I was razzed last night for my comments about the foul ball that Beckham didn't catch which ended up opening up the floodgates.

So who didn't start tonight. The foul ball that wasn't caught is the stuff that doesn't show up on anyone's stats, but which can effect everything.

You think there is accountability for that?! HA!

doublem23
04-22-2010, 11:13 PM
When do the Bears report to Bourbonnais:scratch:

http://www.espnjersey.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/30015b9db8adacdf8948938f9410534a/C/h/Chicago-Bears-No_90-Julius-Peppers-Navy-Blue-NFL-Football-Jersey_1.jpg

Wrong forum.

LoveYourSuit
04-22-2010, 11:14 PM
I'm convinced after three weeks that Quentin is an absolute butcher in RF. That spectacle he put on last night was embarrassing.


Not only that, I am starting to think his hitting from 2008 was a fluke too.

He is a complete hack at the plate.

Chicago5oooh
04-22-2010, 11:14 PM
This is embarrassing. **** team. **** summer to come. Some heads better roll and soon. Hell, blow up the team, this is clearly not going to be our year (AGAIN).:angry::angry::angry::angry:

Quentin08
04-22-2010, 11:14 PM
Over and under until the only 2 guys left in the stadium are the M&Ms guy and Richard Gere?

WhiteSoxOnly
04-22-2010, 11:14 PM
10 more months until pitchers & catchers report to Glendale.

doublem23
04-22-2010, 11:15 PM
I was razzed last night for my comments about the foul ball that Beckham didn't catch which ended up opening up the floodgates.

So who didn't start tonight. The foul ball that wasn't caught is the stuff that doesn't show up on anyone's stats, but which can effect everything.

I don't care, when you lose by double digits, picking 1 single play as the absolute key to the meltdown is craziness.

The Rays are legitimately one of the 3 best teams in baseball right now. The Sox might finish .500 in the International League. That's all there is. Let's just be glad we somehow stole a game this series.

Chicago5oooh
04-22-2010, 11:15 PM
over and under until the only 2 guys left in the stadium are the m&ms guy and richard gere?

lol!!

LoveYourSuit
04-22-2010, 11:15 PM
I was razzed last night for my comments about the foul ball that Beckham didn't catch which ended up opening up the floodgates.

So who didn't start tonight. The foul ball that wasn't caught is the stuff that doesn't show up on anyone's stats, but which can effect everything.

According to Hawk, the Sox got charged with "a team error."

So all is OK.

DirtySox
04-22-2010, 11:16 PM
So... any big names in the 2011 draft?


Despite the teal, yes. The 2011 draft class is stacked. Mainly with pitching, but there are some interesting bats. It is very likely going to be an incredible draft year.

Anthony Rendon, Taylor Jungmann, Gerrit Cole, Sonny Gray, Alex Meyer, Jack Armstrong, Matt Purke...etc

Good thing the White Sox spend lucratively on the draft and are adept at developing plenty of young talent.

october23sp
04-22-2010, 11:16 PM
According to Hawk, the Sox got charged with "a team error."

So all is OK.

My, my, my we may have just found this teams motto.

GoGoCrede
04-22-2010, 11:17 PM
My, my, my we may have just found this teams motto.

Win.

veeter
04-22-2010, 11:17 PM
"The Sox are all just 'in between'"- Hawk

VMSNS
04-22-2010, 11:17 PM
Ozzie is surprisingly calm on the post-game right now.

sox1970
04-22-2010, 11:18 PM
Ozzie just got done with the postgame...I think he's lost the team.

GoGoCrede
04-22-2010, 11:18 PM
Ozzie just got done with the postgame...I think he's lost the team.

I'm really curious, what did he say?

LoveYourSuit
04-22-2010, 11:20 PM
Ozzie just got done with the postgame...I think he's lost the team.


Yeah, that was not too encouraging.

wmc
04-22-2010, 11:20 PM
Jones in right, Rios in center, TCQ in left. Go with that everyday.

Hit AJ second, Rios third and Jones 5th.

Pierre
AJ
Rios
Konerko
Jones
Teahen
TCQ
Beckham
Ramirez

Everyday. If it doesn't work - I got nothing.

Agree.
We don't need the bench players starting games. Pierre, Jones, TCQ, and Rios can take turns at DH; maybe TCQ at DH mostly. Kotsay can come in for Konerko in late innings if the game is a blowout. Same with Omar.

sox1970
04-22-2010, 11:20 PM
I'm really curious, what did he say?

Just his tone. "If the players don't want to be here, come to me, come to Kenny, come to Rick...etc."

doublem23
04-22-2010, 11:20 PM
My, my, my we may have just found this teams motto.

Congratulations.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=13&id=3929

DickAllen72
04-22-2010, 11:21 PM
I'm really curious, what did he say?
He said he's very tired of watching this team. Not getting a hit with the bases loaded is "White Sox Baseball." If the players don't believe they are good, he believes they are good....but if they don't think they can win here, see Kenny or Hahn and they'll get someone else. The only thing he knows about pitching is you have to throw strikes...if you don't you can't last long in the major leagues.

VMSNS
04-22-2010, 11:21 PM
I'm really curious, what did he say?

He said he truly believes that this is a good team, but that the players don't think they're good. Frank said he was in the club house today and it was depressing and impossible to get guys motivated.

thomas35forever
04-22-2010, 11:22 PM
Jones in right, Rios in center, TCQ in left. Go with that everyday.

Hit AJ second, Rios third and Jones 5th.

Pierre
AJ
Rios
Konerko
Jones
Teahen
TCQ
Beckham
Ramirez

Everyday. If it doesn't work - I got nothing.
AJ's not hitting well enough to be a No. 2 hitter right now. Then again, neither is anyone else. God, this team sucks.

GoGoCrede
04-22-2010, 11:22 PM
He said he truly believes that this is a good team, but that the players don't think they're good. Frank said he was in the club house today and it was depressing and impossible to get guys motivated.

He said he's very tired of watching this team. Not getting a hit with the bases loaded is "White Sox Baseball." If the players don't believe they are good, he believes they are good....but if they don't think they can win here, see Kenny or Hahn and they'll get someone else. The only thing he knows about pitching is you have to throw strikes...if you don't you can't last long in the major leagues.

All of this, and they're not even a month in....oh lordy.

veeter
04-22-2010, 11:23 PM
This team just always seems tight to me. They have no fun at all. When Quentin and Peavy struggle, they just squeeze harder. The one who seems to enjoy his job the most is Danks. And he's performing the best.

october23sp
04-22-2010, 11:23 PM
Congratulations.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=13&id=3929
:bandance:

mccoydp
04-22-2010, 11:24 PM
Good lord. Another horrible game, and another stellar pitching performance by "Grindy" Jake Peavy.

LoveYourSuit
04-22-2010, 11:26 PM
Was Jake Peavy mad at his throw to AJ or the fact that AJ couldn't throw to First:scratch:

tick53
04-22-2010, 11:31 PM
:b&b

Bevis: "Hey Butthead. You said the Sox were
gonna win tonight, Asswipe. They're never
gonna score. The Rays scored. The Twins scored
The Yankees scored but we're never gonna
score.

Butthead: The Sox scored Dillweed. They just didn't score enough, Buttmunch and Peavy thucks."

Bevis: "Yeah, Yeah and Carlos Quentin couldn't
get wood on the bat."

Butthead: "You said WOOD. Heh, heh, heh,.

Bevis: "Yeah wood. wood rules."

1989
04-22-2010, 11:33 PM
Jones in right, Rios in center, TCQ in left. Go with that everyday.

Hit AJ second, Rios third and Jones 5th.

Pierre
AJ
Rios
Konerko
Jones
Teahen
TCQ
Beckham
Ramirez

Everyday. If it doesn't work - I got nothing.

Agreed. Ride this lineup for the next two weeks. We gotta see SOME results.

aryzner
04-22-2010, 11:37 PM
At least for those of us who play fantasy baseball, we know how to almost certainly gain major ground in the pitching categories - pick up every available pitcher who will be pitching against the White Sox each week.

KMcMahon817
04-22-2010, 11:42 PM
Q is going to find himself in AAA if he doesn't wake up. He has looked beyond awful. And, not that it mattered at that point, but Pena's 3 RBI double with the 3-0 count, Rios and Jones both would have made that play. DH him for a week, if he doesn't hit, send him to Charlotte.

mccoydp
04-22-2010, 11:44 PM
At least for those of us who play fantasy baseball, we know how to almost certainly gain major ground in the pitching categories - pick up every available pitcher who will be pitching against the White Sox each week.

And my dumb ass overlooked that I had James Shields on the bench today, and I lost 12 points because of it. :angry:

Noneck
04-22-2010, 11:47 PM
Q is going to find himself in AAA if he doesn't wake up. He has looked beyond awful. And, not that it mattered at that point, but Pena's 3 RBI double with the 3-0 count, Rios and Jones both would have made that play. DH him for a week, if he doesn't hit, send him to Charlotte.

I read somewhere that Quentin can't DH because he thinks too much about his hitting on the bench. I would like that more than him thinking about his hitting as hes butchering RF.

soltrain21
04-22-2010, 11:53 PM
Frank and Ozzie's comments were very telling. This team is lost already it seems.

fusillirob1983
04-22-2010, 11:55 PM
Over and under until the only 2 guys left in the stadium are the M&Ms guy and Richard Gere?

Thank you, someone else thinks he looks like Richard Gere! My dad thinks he looks like Fred Couples. Sometimes he's sitting with "big forehead" as my dad refers to him, but occasionally someone else is there with him. Sorry, didn't mean to hijack.

bunty_doghunter
04-23-2010, 12:01 AM
If it weren't for those 10 lucky runs...

GoGoCrede
04-23-2010, 12:04 AM
I read somewhere that Quentin can't DH because he thinks too much about his hitting on the bench. I would like that more than him thinking about his hitting as hes butchering RF.

If this is true, jeez. Headcase.

JB98
04-23-2010, 12:10 AM
This team plays the game with no joy whatsoever.

Long, sad faces. Moping in the dugout and on the field.

It's pathetic.

johnnyg83
04-23-2010, 12:15 AM
bunch a millionaire mopes.

When's the last time we started this bad?

JB98
04-23-2010, 12:17 AM
bunch a millionaire mopes.

When's the last time we started this bad?

1997. They were 4-12 after 16 games under the great Bevington.

johnnyg83
04-23-2010, 12:20 AM
AH, 1997, The Jorge Fabregas/Darren Lewis era.

Lip Man 1
04-23-2010, 12:22 AM
They had an "excuse" at least, Ventura's destroying his ankle the final week of spring training screwed the club mentally. This team has no excuse.

And JB's right, this team is lifeless, dead, playing like the last thing they want to do is be out there. What's scary is we've seen this a lot since 2007.

Are these guys that thin skinned? That mentally weak that they fold like a cheap suit at the first sign of trouble....if so that says a lot of things about a lot of perople. The players themselves, Ozzie's ability to motivate and Kenny's ability to scout guys with "character."

Maybe Carl Everett was right when he made his comments about "leadership." The record shows he might have known something.

Lip

guillensdisciple
04-23-2010, 12:24 AM
I am done ranting, I can't write a 23232 page post again. My point about this team was made. A lot of talk, with no result.

Glad to see Peavy follow that mold. He wouldn't have won the game with the hitting we have, but it is still great to see him pitch like an ass. Great job guy, I am sure you're fired up to go out there next time.

To Peavy: Shut up, you're annoying now.

To White Sox: Go **** yourself.

To all of you: May we survive this year as fans and see something special sooner or later. We deserve championships... not this bull****,

EdHerman12
04-23-2010, 12:28 AM
Rongey was doing his usual positive spin schtick on the post game radio show. I just wish once that guy would say..."Ok look...we suck...so just deal with it or don't watch.." Instead he's cutting down people who at least try to offer logical suggestions...Oh well he's got a good thing going...I know no one wants to hear this stuff, but I had to run iout for a little bit and had the radio on and it's the same old Ranger...towing the company libne..

Anyway...well I sure hope by all the previous posts that Ozzie has lost the team are misleading, but they're just not playing with any intensity. You've got to give Tampa Bay credit, they're a legit team now. Remember.... they swept the Red Sox in Fenway 4 straight before they showed up here. They're getting it done on the road. Thank God Johnny D pitched so great the other night or this would've really been a fiasco..

Now we've got another hot team coming in with Seattle who's won 7 of their last 8...unless our pitchers start getting it done, and our hitters strat driving in some runs, this could get even uglier...and there's gonn a be a lot of room out at the Cell....

Hegewisch
04-23-2010, 12:29 AM
It is totally puzzling.............:scratch::scratch::scratch:

The only good sign is they are only 6 games out of 1st place ?!?:o:

There has to be some revival in this team....................:rolleyes:

I still once again have my typical comment on the game which I am getting tired of saying........."W T F ?!?!?"

TDog
04-23-2010, 12:38 AM
I read somewhere that Quentin can't DH because he thinks too much about his hitting on the bench. I would like that more than him thinking about his hitting as hes butchering RF.


I read somewhere that Jake Peavy could pitch.

Carlos Quentin has started one game at DH this season. He has had one game this season where he had more than three RBIs. Coincidentally, he collected six RBIs in a game where he was DHing. Small sample size, certainly, but it doesn't contradict the belief I expressed in January that Carlos Quentin should be doing most of the DHing.

The problem with this team is not the offense. It is not the lineup. It is not the manager or the coaches. It is the starting pitching.

This team was built around the promise of great starting pitching. If the Sox are losing 1-0 or 2-1, you could argue that the problem is the lack of offense. But this week, after winning 4-1, they lost 12-0 and 10-2. And the losses went to the first two pitchers in the White Sox rotation.

The resources have gone to the pitching staff. Late last year, the White Sox took on two huge contracts, to management's credit, that other teams couldn't afford.

It might be true that the White Sox could get more offense if they had passed on Rios and picked up players with more offensive. If the team had gone cheap, they might have a better rotation without Peavy. Richard would be substantially cheaper. Add either Garcia or Hudson to the rotation, and you're not only much cheaper, you might be getting better results.

This isn't the team Guillen wanted. Guillen and Williams were looking for starting pitchers who could go 7, 8 and 9 innings, keeping even a team scratching for runs in the ballgame. Moving runners along, scoring them from from third base with less than two outs, that would be a formula that not only would get you to the postseason, but would make you the team no one wants to face in the postseason, the kind of team that could run through the ALCS without even calling to the bullpen.

The problem is not the offense, although the 1977 or 2000 White Sox, offensive juggernauts both, likely would have a winning record at this point. (Sadly, though, both of those seasons ended well for the Yankees long after they ended for the White Sox.) The problem is that the starting pitching the White Sox are built around only offers an occasional glimpse of the promise it held for White Sox fans who were anticipating the 2010 season when people were still doing their Christmas shopping.

The problem is the pitching. Maybe the pitching would be better if Quentin were DHing, but it's mostly the pitching.

soltrain21
04-23-2010, 12:40 AM
I read somewhere that Quentin can't DH because he thinks too much about his hitting on the bench. I would like that more than him thinking about his hitting as hes butchering RF.

Farmer said that in the first inning of they day Quentin was DHing and had six rbi.

It's Dankerific
04-23-2010, 12:41 AM
tdog,

and by pitching, i assume you mean shutouts/complete games because you were still railing on the starters when they lost a game 3-2.

sox1970
04-23-2010, 12:41 AM
TDog--Quentin has DH'd twice. He was 0-4 on April 15.

JB98
04-23-2010, 12:43 AM
I read somewhere that Jake Peavy could pitch.

Carlos Quentin has started one game at DH this season. He has had one game this season where he had more than three RBIs. Coincidentally, he collected six RBIs in a game where he was DHing. Small sample size, certainly, but it doesn't contradict the belief I expressed in January that Carlos Quentin should be doing most of the DHing.

The problem with this team is not the offense. It is not the lineup. It is not the manager or the coaches. It is the starting pitching.

This team was built around the promise of great starting pitching. If the Sox are losing 1-0 or 2-1, you could argue that the problem is the lack of offense. But this week, after winning 4-1, they lost 12-0 and 10-2. And the losses went to the first two pitchers in the White Sox rotation.

The resources have gone to the pitching staff. Late last year, the White Sox took on two huge contracts, to management's credit, that other teams couldn't afford.

It might be true that the White Sox could get more offense if they had passed on Rios and picked up players with more offensive. If the team had gone cheap, they might have a better rotation without Peavy. Richard would be substantially cheaper. Add either Garcia or Hudson to the rotation, and you're not only much cheaper, you might be getting better results.

This isn't the team Guillen wanted. Guillen and Williams were looking for starting pitchers who could go 7, 8 and 9 innings, keeping even a team scratching for runs in the ballgame. Moving runners along, scoring them from from third base with less than two outs, that would be a formula that not only would get you to the postseason, but would make you the team no one wants to face in the postseason, the kind of team that could run through the ALCS without even calling to the bullpen.

The problem is not the offense, although the 1977 or 2000 White Sox, offensive juggernauts both, likely would have a winning record at this point. (Sadly, though, both of those seasons ended well for the Yankees long after they ended for the White Sox.) The problem is that the starting pitching the White Sox are built around only offers an occasional glimpse of the promise it held for White Sox fans who were anticipating the 2010 season when people were still doing their Christmas shopping.

The problem is the pitching. Maybe the pitching would be better if Quentin were DHing, but it's mostly the pitching.

This club is batting .217. They've scored 3 or fewer runs in 10 of 16 games.

The problem most definitely is the offense.

Pitching has been a problem in exactly 4 of 16 games. The Garcia game in Toronto, the Floyd game in Cleveland and the last two nights against Tampa Bay.

Four poorly pitched games. Ten games of bad offense.

The offense is worse.

johnnyg83
04-23-2010, 12:43 AM
I read somewhere that Jake Peavy could pitch.

Carlos Quentin has started one game at DH this season. He has had one game this season where he had more than three RBIs. Coincidentally, he collected six RBIs in a game where he was DHing. Small sample size, certainly, but it doesn't contradict the belief I expressed in January that Carlos Quentin should be doing most of the DHing.

The problem with this team is not the offense. It is not the lineup. It is not the manager or the coaches. It is the starting pitching.

This team was built around the promise of great starting pitching. If the Sox are losing 1-0 or 2-1, you could argue that the problem is the lack of offense. But this week, after winning 4-1, they lost 12-0 and 10-2. And the losses went to the first two pitchers in the White Sox rotation.

The resources have gone to the pitching staff. Late last year, the White Sox took on two huge contracts, to management's credit, that other teams couldn't afford.

It might be true that the White Sox could get more offense if they had passed on Rios and picked up players with more offensive. If the team had gone cheap, they might have a better rotation without Peavy. Richard would be substantially cheaper. Add either Garcia or Hudson to the rotation, and you're not only much cheaper, you might be getting better results.

This isn't the team Guillen wanted. Guillen and Williams were looking for starting pitchers who could go 7, 8 and 9 innings, keeping even a team scratching for runs in the ballgame. Moving runners along, scoring them from from third base with less than two outs, that would be a formula that not only would get you to the postseason, but would make you the team no one wants to face in the postseason, the kind of team that could run through the ALCS without even calling to the bullpen.

The problem is not the offense, although the 1977 or 2000 White Sox, offensive juggernauts both, likely would have a winning record at this point. (Sadly, though, both of those seasons ended well for the Yankees long after they ended for the White Sox.) The problem is that the starting pitching the White Sox are built around only offers an occasional glimpse of the promise it held for White Sox fans who were anticipating the 2010 season when people were still doing their Christmas shopping.

The problem is the pitching. Maybe the pitching would be better if Quentin were DHing, but it's mostly the pitching.

The problem is the pitching AND the hitting. We've scored 6 runs in three games. We scored 11 in the previous 4 ... show me a team winning games averaging less than 3 runs a game ... no matter who's pitching. Wouldn't that mean you're expecting a sub 3.00 ERA from your pitching staff? That's irrational in 21st Century baseball.

It's Dankerific
04-23-2010, 12:46 AM
This club is batting .217. They've scored 3 or fewer runs in 10 of 16 games.

The problem most definitely is the offense.

Pitching has been a problem in exactly 4 of 16 games. The Garcia game in Toronto, the Floyd game in Cleveland and the last two nights against Tampa Bay.

Four poorly pitched games. Ten games of bad offense.

The offense is worse.

that seems like a reasonable analysis.

doublem23
04-23-2010, 12:47 AM
Well I keep telling myself that this team isn't nearly this bad, but they are making it hard to keep telling myself that.

Ug. Ly.

Noneck
04-23-2010, 12:48 AM
The problem is the pitching. Maybe the pitching would be better if Quentin were DHing, but it's mostly the pitching.

Considering the % of salary spent on pitching, you do have a point. Blame has to be put on the #1 and 2 starters considering the amount they make.

doublem23
04-23-2010, 12:52 AM
The problem is the pitching. Maybe the pitching would be better if Quentin were DHing, but it's mostly the pitching.

The problem is everything. The pitching staff ranks 9th in the league in ERA. The offense ranks 12th and 13th in the league in runs and OBP respectively. Absolutely nothing is going right for the Sox right now.

It's Dankerific
04-23-2010, 12:55 AM
The problem is everything. The pitching staff ranks 9th in the league in ERA. The offense ranks 12th and 13th in the league in runs and OBP respectively. Absolutely nothing is going right for the Sox right now.

I assume Ozzie's Direct Deposit is going right. He'd probably do something about that, if it wasn't.

TDog
04-23-2010, 12:58 AM
tdog,

and by pitching, i assume you mean shutouts/complete games because you were still railing on the starters when they lost a game 3-2.

The White Sox haven't been losing many 3-2 games lately. I think the last time was Peavy's last start, when Sox pitchers blew an eighth-inning lead.

I believe in every other one-run loss, if not that one as well, the White Sox had a runner on third with less than two out who failed to score. That is a problem with the offense -- Beckham and Rios have done that multiple times. But it an offensive problem that is unrelated to the low team batting average.

You're blaming the offense when Buehrle and Peavy are starting and the Sox are losing by an average of 10 runs a game. The Twins have pitched twice as many shutouts as the White Sox and the Red Sox have been shut out twice as many times as the White Sox.

People here didn't expect much out of the offense, they're not getting it and they're screaming for Greg Walker's head. They expected everything from the starting pitching, they're getting next to nothing and they're still screaming for Greg Walker's head.

Nellie_Fox
04-23-2010, 01:11 AM
It's hard for players to produce when the manager doesn't put them in a position to succeed. What the hell does that even mean?

doublem23
04-23-2010, 01:20 AM
What the hell does that even mean?

Vizquel & Kotsay in for Beckham & Rios = **** lineup

Frankfan4life
04-23-2010, 01:27 AM
Well, I've been home for a while so I've calmed down a bit. It was really a bad evening at the ballpark today. The total lack of clutch hitting was astounding, but not surprising, and Peavy was just flat-out terrible. The cold wouldn't have bothered me so much had the game been competitive. The worst thing is I have lost hope that this team will get any better. I'll continue to support them but I have resigned myself to not expect much.

Boondock Saint
04-23-2010, 01:39 AM
What a **** game. After the 3rd, I spent the majority of my time walking the concourse to keep warm. I ended up leaving after Pena's double. I'm starting to wonder if some semblance of offense from this team will even matter. Right now, Danks is the only starter I feel can go out there every five days and keep us in a position to win.

DirtySox
04-23-2010, 01:58 AM
In this lovely Cowley gloom piece (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/2191040,CST-SPT-cowley23.article), it notes that Kenny has been calling around to gauge AJ's trade value.

tsoxman
04-23-2010, 05:52 AM
In this lovely Cowley gloom piece (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/2191040,CST-SPT-cowley23.article), it notes that Kenny has been calling around to gauge AJ's trade value.

There is not one word in the article (and in the first comment letter) that I disagree with.

masloan
04-23-2010, 05:54 AM
If Kenny thinks the hitters are just cold at this point, he is sorely mistaken

So has AJ, a career .284 hitter, is now a .163 hitter?

Juan Pierre, a career .300 hitter, is now a .217 hitter?

Since hitters are just not cold I guess Quentin and Beckham are just not good, right?

LITTLE NELL
04-23-2010, 06:26 AM
Planning on going to to the Trop in late May to see our Hitless Wonders, might have to make other plans if this keeps up.
We all thought the hitting was bad since the middle of the 06 season but this is as bad as it gets.
I think the talent is there, a shakeup is needed, maybe its time for Ozzie to go. People will say he won a WS, well Casey Stengel won a 10 or 11 WS and got canned after losing one to the Cardinals in 1964.

soxfanatlanta
04-23-2010, 06:33 AM
Planning on going to to the Trop in late May to see our Hitless Wonders, might have to make other plans if this keeps up.

There is always St. Pete beach :redneck

doublem23
04-23-2010, 06:50 AM
So has AJ, a career .284 hitter, is now a .163 hitter?

Juan Pierre, a career .300 hitter, is now a .217 hitter?

Since hitters are just not cold I guess Quentin and Beckham are just not good, right?

Quentin might not be, and Beckham wouldn't be the first good player to have a sophomore slump.

palehozenychicty
04-23-2010, 07:06 AM
I felt like Tampa was a better team in 2008. They still are now. The White Sox need to clean up this mess. Peavy is notta looking too good either.

Lillian
04-23-2010, 07:23 AM
I read somewhere that Jake Peavy could pitch.

Carlos Quentin has started one game at DH this season. He has had one game this season where he had more than three RBIs. Coincidentally, he collected six RBIs in a game where he was DHing. Small sample size, certainly, but it doesn't contradict the belief I expressed in January that Carlos Quentin should be doing most of the DHing.

The problem with this team is not the offense. It is not the lineup. It is not the manager or the coaches. It is the starting pitching.

This team was built around the promise of great starting pitching. If the Sox are losing 1-0 or 2-1, you could argue that the problem is the lack of offense. But this week, after winning 4-1, they lost 12-0 and 10-2. And the losses went to the first two pitchers in the White Sox rotation.

The resources have gone to the pitching staff. Late last year, the White Sox took on two huge contracts, to management's credit, that other teams couldn't afford.

It might be true that the White Sox could get more offense if they had passed on Rios and picked up players with more offensive. If the team had gone cheap, they might have a better rotation without Peavy. Richard would be substantially cheaper. Add either Garcia or Hudson to the rotation, and you're not only much cheaper, you might be getting better results.

This isn't the team Guillen wanted. Guillen and Williams were looking for starting pitchers who could go 7, 8 and 9 innings, keeping even a team scratching for runs in the ballgame. Moving runners along, scoring them from from third base with less than two outs, that would be a formula that not only would get you to the postseason, but would make you the team no one wants to face in the postseason, the kind of team that could run through the ALCS without even calling to the bullpen.

The problem is not the offense, although the 1977 or 2000 White Sox, offensive juggernauts both, likely would have a winning record at this point. (Sadly, though, both of those seasons ended well for the Yankees long after they ended for the White Sox.) The problem is that the starting pitching the White Sox are built around only offers an occasional glimpse of the promise it held for White Sox fans who were anticipating the 2010 season when people were still doing their Christmas shopping.

The problem is the pitching. Maybe the pitching would be better if Quentin were DHing, but it's mostly the pitching.

I agree completely. When they were losing low scoring games I wasn't too alarmed, because it's reasonable to expect the hitters to end up around their historical stats. However, when your "Ace" has lost velocity and can't turn in a solid performance in his first 3 starts, you've got a problem.

I didn't watch last night. It's obvious from all of the walks, that Jake didn't have his command, but how was his velocity? That's the biggest concern with him.

wassagstdu
04-23-2010, 07:53 AM
It wasn't much remarked on at the time because it was a Sox win, but I think Juan Pierre's comment after the game ending out at the plate a few games ago was significant. He said he was thinking that he wanted to get rid of the ball quickly so he wouldn't take the blame. I think that tells you a lot about the attitude of this team.

SI1020
04-23-2010, 08:42 AM
Planning on going to to the Trop in late May to see our Hitless Wonders, might have to make other plans if this keeps up.
We all thought the hitting was bad since the middle of the 06 season but this is as bad as it gets.
I think the talent is there, a shakeup is needed, maybe its time for Ozzie to go. People will say he won a WS, well Casey Stengel won a 10 or 11 WS and got canned after losing one to the Cardinals in 1964. Actually Stengel was fired after his team lost to the Pirates in the 1960 WS despite outscoring them 55-26. Several of his decsions were called into question, particularly starting Art Ditmar in the opener instead of Whitey Ford who shut out the Pirates in games 3 and 6. So after 10 pennants and 7 WS wins in just 12 years Stengel was shown the door. Some teams demand the very best and others shall we say just don't.

veeter
04-23-2010, 08:47 AM
1997. They were 4-12 after 16 games under the great Bevington.Albert Belle's first year?

harwar
04-23-2010, 09:14 AM
I didn't watch last night. It's obvious from all of the walks, that Jake didn't have his command, but how was his velocity? That's the biggest concern with him.

his FB was low to mid 90's .. saw him hit 95 twice but not sure about the gun so .. his 2-seamer looked to be his best pitch last night .. he had command of nothing else but kept trying until he was so obviously frustrated that he was actually yelling at himself out there .. it wasn't fun to watch .. i've seen him some over the years but never have i seen him act like that on the mound

Huisj
04-23-2010, 10:21 AM
his FB was low to mid 90's .. saw him hit 95 twice but not sure about the gun so .. his 2-seamer looked to be his best pitch last night .. he had command of nothing else but kept trying until he was so obviously frustrated that he was actually yelling at himself out there .. it wasn't fun to watch .. i've seen him some over the years but never have i seen him act like that on the mound

Here's the pitchFX data from last night:

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfx/index.php?month=4&day=22&year=2010&game=gid_2010_04_22_tbamlb_chamlb_1%2F&pitchSel=408241&prevGame=gid_2010_04_22_tbamlb_chamlb_1%2F&prevDate=422

Frankfan4life
04-23-2010, 11:44 AM
It wasn't much remarked on at the time because it was a Sox win, but I think Juan Pierre's comment after the game ending out at the plate a few games ago was significant. He said he was thinking that he wanted to get rid of the ball quickly so he wouldn't take the blame. I think that tells you a lot about the attitude of this team.That comment also stuck with me after I heard it. It sounds like some players are being called out after losses or there's some buck-passing going on. It could be a sign that clubhouse chemistry is not very good. Two guys who are gone, Dye and Thome, were good clubhouse guys who helped keep the clubhouse loose.

Nevertheless, I think we're probably reading too much into Pierre's comment.

soltrain21
04-23-2010, 11:56 AM
That comment also stuck with me after I heard it. It sounds like some players are being called out after losses or there's some buck-passing going on. It could be a sign that clubhouse chemistry is not very good. Two guys who are gone, Dye and Thome, were good clubhouse guys who helped keep the clubhouse loose.

Nevertheless, I think we're probably reading too much into Pierre's comment.

Dye did not keep the clubhouse loose last year. From all reports he helped tear apart with his bitching and moaning.

RockJock07
04-23-2010, 12:54 PM
his FB was low to mid 90's .. saw him hit 95 twice but not sure about the gun so .. his 2-seamer looked to be his best pitch last night .. he had command of nothing else but kept trying until he was so obviously frustrated that he was actually yelling at himself out there .. it wasn't fun to watch .. i've seen him some over the years but never have i seen him act like that on the mound

His awful start can't just be a new adjustment to the AL, something else is wrong in my mind. He seemed healty at the end of last year but looks nothing like he did even then.

I would start Lucy next time he goes and see if that makes a difference if he gets rocked again, Kenny and Ozzie have to look at a DL trip or a couple of starts in AAA.

Frankfan4life
04-23-2010, 01:15 PM
Dye did not keep the clubhouse loose last year. From all reports he helped tear apart with his bitching and moaning.I never heard that before. Do you have a link or something for that?

LITTLE NELL
04-23-2010, 01:19 PM
Actually Stengel was fired after his team lost to the Pirates in the 1960 WS despite outscoring them 55-26. Several of his decsions were called into question, particularly starting Art Ditmar in the opener instead of Whitey Ford who shut out the Pirates in games 3 and 6. So after 10 pennants and 7 WS wins in just 12 years Stengel was shown the door. Some teams demand the very best and others shall we say just don't.

I stand corrected.
I knew somone either got fired or quit after the 64 WS, it was Yogi Berra who got the axe. Also the day after the series ended, Johnny Keanne the Cards manager quit and was hired by the Yankees for the 65 season.

BringHomeDaBacon
04-23-2010, 01:21 PM
Dye did not keep the clubhouse loose last year. From all reports he helped tear apart with his bitching and moaning.

I'm going to call bull****

CLUBHOUSE KID
04-23-2010, 01:27 PM
Dye did not keep the clubhouse loose last year. From all reports he helped tear apart with his bitching and moaning.

Something tells me this is not correct. Either way this team seems not to be getting along so well. I do not feel good about this team when it comes to bonding and what not. There is nobody like a Thome or a Swisher.

CLUBHOUSE KID
04-23-2010, 01:31 PM
Now that I think about what I said this team with players on it who are aren't that close and loose with each other may have an effect. The Yanks last season got off to a slow start. Not as slow but not that good. However, they had a loose team and I think it's even better this season. They even had a day where they just played games and talked during an off day at ST. This WSox team has no guys who joke around and keep it loose and motivate each other in a friendly matter. If they did, this crap play may end sooner. Swisher would help I believe. The people in NY love him as well as the Yanks.

soltrain21
04-23-2010, 01:38 PM
I'm going to call bull****

You must have missed those interviews after Rios was picked up, then.

harwar
04-23-2010, 01:41 PM
Here's the pitchFX data from last night:

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfx/index.php?month=4&day=22&year=2010&game=gid_2010_04_22_tbamlb_chamlb_1%2F&pitchSel=408241&prevGame=gid_2010_04_22_tbamlb_chamlb_1%2F&prevDate=422

what an awesome site .. now i don't have to guess anymore .. thanks

CLUBHOUSE KID
04-23-2010, 01:41 PM
You must have missed those interviews after Rios was picked up, then.

Well yeah maybe at that point towards the end.

Jim Shorts
04-23-2010, 01:43 PM
This WSox team has no guys who joke around and keep it loose and motivate each other in a friendly matter.


I'd like to know how you know this and state it as fact...

soltrain21
04-23-2010, 01:45 PM
Well yeah maybe at that point towards the end.

Um...well then, yes.

CLUBHOUSE KID
04-23-2010, 01:45 PM
I'd like to know how you know this and state it as fact...

How do I "state it as fact"?

Jim Shorts
04-23-2010, 01:49 PM
How do I "state it as fact"?

Go back and reread you post please. Your statement was made as a factual statement.

I know it's opinion, but not in the way you phrased it. In fact, the way you phrased it implied you've spent time in the clubhouse and witnessed it personally.

Huisj
04-23-2010, 06:38 PM
His awful start can't just be a new adjustment to the AL, something else is wrong in my mind. He seemed healty at the end of last year but looks nothing like he did even then.

I would start Lucy next time he goes and see if that makes a difference if he gets rocked again, Kenny and Ozzie have to look at a DL trip or a couple of starts in AAA.

Anyone think maybe he's just trying too hard. Maybe since he hyped up his own intensity and competitiveness so much leading into the season, he's just trying so hard that he's too tight on the mound and can't calm down enough to get it together. Could he be trying to win 20 games each time he takes the mound, and the more it doesn't work, the harder he tries, and it just isn't working? It's the first time he's been traded, his first time in a high pressure market, and the first time where he is trying to prove he's worth what was paid for him--he came up in SD and had success after success from the start.

Or maybe he doesn't like the cold.

BringHomeDaBacon
04-23-2010, 07:31 PM
You must have missed those interviews after Rios was picked up, then.

Those interviews hardly support a claim that Dye helped "tear apart" the clubhouse. Whatever that even means.

Lip Man 1
04-23-2010, 10:56 PM
Sports Illustrated this week has a story on JD in the print edition. The story quotes an A.L. G.M. as saying that JD isn't employed because "of his bad second half, unrealistic demands at the beginning of free agency, an unwillingness to settle later on and a glut of corner outfielders available."

They also talk about how his defense has deteriorated.

Lip