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GoGoCrede
04-20-2010, 01:46 PM
Interesting article here (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Good-seats-available-MLB-setting-record-lows-in?urn=mlb,235390).

Some alarming facts:

- The Rays-Orioles series drew a total of only 33,000 fans.
- Houston and Cleveland's attendance is down 8 percent
-Safeco's attendance of 14,528 this week was the smallest in Safeco Field's history.
- Eight games were played on Monday, and of those eight, three of them had all-time attendance lows.


Some speculate in the article that the low attendance is a result of the Red-Sox Yankees "stranglehold" on the league.

Thoughts?

jdm2662
04-20-2010, 01:51 PM
Interesting article here (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Good-seats-available-MLB-setting-record-lows-in?urn=mlb,235390).

Some alarming facts:

- The Rays-Orioles series drew a total of only 33,000 fans.
- Houston and Cleveland's attendance is down 8 percent
-Safeco's attendance of 14,528 this week was the smallest in Safeco Field's history.


Some speculate in the article that the low attendance is a result of the Red-Sox Yankees "stranglehold" on the league.

Thoughts?

People don't have the money to watch bad baseball.

Corporations are not buying up tickets in mass amounts as they used to please clients. I know for a fact my company cut down on this big time.

That's pretty much the two reasons. You will see Comiskey empty if the Sox continue to suck ass. This is especially for myself with the Eisenhower torn up, working in Northbrook, and don't have the money to spend like I used to. I went to 11 games in both 2008 and 2009. It will probably be less no matter what this year.

johnnyg83
04-20-2010, 02:12 PM
People don't have the money to watch bad baseball.

Corporations are not buying up tickets in mass amounts as they used to please clients. I know for a fact my company cut down on this big time.

That's pretty much the two reasons. You will see Comiskey empty if the Sox continue to suck ass. This is especially for myself with the Eisenhower torn up, working in Northbrook, and don't have the money to spend like I used to. I went to 11 games in both 2008 and 2009. It will probably be less no matter what this year.

Agreed, plus the economy/market tanked last year hard after season tickets had been bought. We're seeing the repercussions in the stands this season.

I went to a opening week Royals/RedSox game on a beautiful Sunday and there may have been 12,000 people there ... they announced 19,000.

Big-drawing opponent, beautiful day? Horrible crowd.

jdm2662
04-20-2010, 02:35 PM
Agreed, plus the economy/market tanked last year hard after season tickets had been bought. We're seeing the repercussions in the stands this season.

I went to a opening week Royals/RedSox game on a beautiful Sunday and there may have been 12,000 people there ... they announced 19,000.

Big-drawing opponent, beautiful day? Horrible crowd.

Yep, that's the better explanation. The market tanked when the playoffs had just started in 2008. Most people/companies had already paid for their season tickets. This year? Not so much. And yet, cries of collusion come out when old players don't get big contracts. :rolleyes:

GoSox2K3
04-20-2010, 03:50 PM
Interesting article here (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Good-seats-available-MLB-setting-record-lows-in?urn=mlb,235390).

Some alarming facts:

- The Rays-Orioles series drew a total of only 33,000 fans.
- Houston and Cleveland's attendance is down 8 percent
-Safeco's attendance of 14,528 this week was the smallest in Safeco Field's history.
- Eight games were played on Monday, and of those eight, three of them had all-time attendance lows.


Some speculate in the article that the low attendance is a result of the Red-Sox Yankees "stranglehold" on the league.

Thoughts?

By far the biggest impact is the economy.

I don't think the Yankees-Red Sox "strangle hold" helps. The way MLB is marketed (especially on ESPN) makes people think that the entire league revolves around NY and Bos and most other teams are irrelevant. Also, it can't help in places like Baltimore and Toronto where fans know their chances of making the playoffs are almost zero. Other AL fans are probably losing interest after a decade in which the biggest markets (NY-Bos-Chicago-LA) won 8 out of 10 pennants (with the 9th pennant going to big spending, Boras clients-loving Detroit.). But the economy is by-far the biggest factor.

TDog
04-20-2010, 04:10 PM
During the Great Depression, in what many consider the Golden Age of baseball, a few teams almost went out of business, surviving only by selling players to better teams. Even after the A's moved to Kansas City, they acted as a farm team for the Yankees (the overwhelmingly dominant team in that Golden Age when there was the reserve clause and only amateurs and players no one wanted were free agents).

The booming baseball economy was built on season ticket bases, overpriced for the average fan. Attendance didn't reflect how many fans were paying to get into the ballpark, but how many tickets were being sold while it was being made tougher for fans to afford to go to ballgames.

The American economy will force a shift in the baseball economy. Players will comlain about collusion, but it isn't collusion (or even collusive or independent racism) that is keeping Jermaine Dye out of baseball.

Of course, at WSI, most will reflexively advocate a salary cap without understanding the economics of baseball. Ticket prices are not high because of salaries. (Ticket prices have more influence on salaries than salaries have on ticket prices.) Ticket prices reflect what the market will bear, and that market is changing to the detriment of baseball owners.

Obviously, ticket prices will have to come down.

A salary cap won't bring people to the ballpark. It won't make baseball more competitive. A reserve clause would come closer to making that dream come true. A reserve clause plus an amateur draft turned the Yankees into a last place team and the A's into a dynasty during the decade that financial structure was in place.

But none of that is going to happen, not even a salary cap, unless the owners shut down baseball for a year or two, which could be disastrous for the sport considering the tenuous loyalty younger fans are showing toward baseball.

Better than a salary cap, the owners could divide all broadcast money equally (which has more to do with the parity/mediocrity that everyone seems to love in the NFL than the salary cap does). Players wouldn't have any problem with that.

Of course, the owners would.

Jerko
04-20-2010, 04:14 PM
The Yankee-Red Sox stranglehold doesn't help, but it really hurts the Jays-Orioles since they are in the same division IMO. I will probably go to as many games as I always do, but I live really close to the park and have the same plan I've had for years. People are sick of spending so much money at a game on teams that don't compete. It's a bad circle. Teams don't compete, fans dont show, owners cry broke and "blame" fans, repeat. I can see the Cell being a ghost town by the end of May if the team doesn't turn around fast.

Hitmen77
04-20-2010, 05:14 PM
The problem with the Yankees-Red Sox stranglehold isn't that it is the main cause of the attendance drop (it isn't, the economy is). But the problem with NYY-Bos over-the-top spending is that it forces all other teams into the unsustainable task of trying to draw close to 3 million people....and you only get to 3 million if you are drawing over 30,000 a night even on cold April school nights.

It used to be accepted that MLB teams only drew 10-15,000 for this early season games. But that was before the days when the Yankees spent $80 million more in payroll than the Red Sox....and the Red Sox spend $40-60 million more than the other top spending AL teams.
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/salaries

There is no way other teams can keep up when NYY and Bos are essentially lapping them in payroll. Only very, very few teams can really draw that well night after night for early season weekday games. To say the problem is that Tampa, Kansas City, Baltimore, Toronto, Seattle, etc. can't draw 35,000 every night in April and May in a desperate attempt to stay only $60 million behind the Red Sox and $100 million behind the Yankees is just totally missing the real problem.

ewokpelts
04-20-2010, 05:44 PM
During the Great Depression, in what many consider the Golden Age of baseball, a few teams almost went out of business, surviving only by selling players to better teams. Even after the A's moved to Kansas City, they acted as a farm team for the Yankees (the overwhelmingly dominant team in that Golden Age when there was the reserve clause and only amateurs and players no one wanted were free agents).

The booming baseball economy was built on season ticket bases, overpriced for the average fan. Attendance didn't reflect how many fans were paying to get into the ballpark, but how many tickets were being sold while it was being made tougher for fans to afford to go to ballgames.

The American economy will force a shift in the baseball economy. Players will comlain about collusion, but it isn't collusion (or even collusive or independent racism) that is keeping Jermaine Dye out of baseball.

Of course, at WSI, most will reflexively advocate a salary cap without understanding the economics of baseball. Ticket prices are not high because of salaries. (Ticket prices have more influence on salaries than salaries have on ticket prices.) Ticket prices reflect what the market will bear, and that market is changing to the detriment of baseball owners.

Obviously, ticket prices will have to come down.

A salary cap won't bring people to the ballpark. It won't make baseball more competitive. A reserve clause would come closer to making that dream come true. A reserve clause plus an amateur draft turned the Yankees into a last place team and the A's into a dynasty during the decade that financial structure was in place.

But none of that is going to happen, not even a salary cap, unless the owners shut down baseball for a year or two, which could be disastrous for the sport considering the tenuous loyalty younger fans are showing toward baseball.

Better than a salary cap, the owners could divide all broadcast money equally (which has more to do with the parity/mediocrity that everyone seems to love in the NFL than the salary cap does). Players wouldn't have any problem with that.

Of course, the owners would.the a's didnt go to Kansas City until the 50's.

ewokpelts
04-20-2010, 05:45 PM
Interesting article here (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Good-seats-available-MLB-setting-record-lows-in?urn=mlb,235390).

Some alarming facts:

- The Rays-Orioles series drew a total of only 33,000 fans.
- Houston and Cleveland's attendance is down 8 percent
-Safeco's attendance of 14,528 this week was the smallest in Safeco Field's history.
- Eight games were played on Monday, and of those eight, three of them had all-time attendance lows.


Some speculate in the article that the low attendance is a result of the Red-Sox Yankees "stranglehold" on the league.

Thoughts?it's april. and the economy sucks

Tragg
04-20-2010, 06:01 PM
I've been to Safeco in mid summer with the Mariners 20 below .500 and there are 25K there screaming their heads off.
Economy and April don't help, but not a great trend.

BainesHOF
04-20-2010, 06:03 PM
I don't appreciate the Sox raises prices this year given the continued state of the economy. If they were smart, they would have cut prices a tad and marketed the fact. They can gouge someone else with their $7 beers and $5 hot dogs.

TDog
04-20-2010, 06:17 PM
the a's didnt go to Kansas City until the 50's.

I'm aware of that. The Golden Age of Baseball extended beyond the Great Depression and into the 1950s, just as the Yankees dynasty did.

Of course, the A's made their money by selling off players while they were still in Philadelphia. Connie Mack found that he could make more money by selling off great teams he had built -- and he built a couple of great teams -- than he could playing for championships, even before the Great Depression.

My failure to take the time to make that point clear does not change my argument.

LongLiveFisk
04-20-2010, 06:44 PM
Everyone knows it has gotten way too expensive to take a family to a game. Plus the April weather and the economy? Not a good combo.

As the weather gets nicer, the winning teams will rise somewhat in attendance but the losing teams' attendance will continue to tank, with the Cubs being the exception, of course.

DSpivack
04-20-2010, 06:48 PM
I'm aware of that. The Golden Age of Baseball extended beyond the Great Depression and into the 1950s, just as the Yankees dynasty did.

Of course, the A's made their money by selling off players while they were still in Philadelphia. Connie Mack found that he could make more money by selling off great teams he had built -- and he built a couple of great teams -- than he could playing for championships, even before the Great Depression.

My failure to take the time to make that point clear does not change my argument.

Sounds like the A's M.O. hasn't changed! :redneck

UChicagoHP
04-21-2010, 12:42 AM
I don't appreciate the Sox raises prices this year given the continued state of the economy. If they were smart, they would have cut prices a tad and marketed the fact. They can gouge someone else with their $7 beers and $5 hot dogs.
:gulp::gulp::gulp:

LoveYourSuit
04-21-2010, 12:56 AM
Everyone knows it has gotten way too expensive to take a family to a game. Plus the April weather and the economy? Not a good combo.

As the weather gets nicer, the winning teams will rise somewhat in attendance but the losing teams' attendance will continue to tank, with the Cubs being the exception, of course.


That's the key here.

Worst ecenomic times of our lifetime and the greedy owners continue to jack up prices for everything.

ewokpelts
04-21-2010, 08:38 AM
I don't appreciate the Sox raises prices this year given the continued state of the economy. If they were smart, they would have cut prices a tad and marketed the fact. They can gouge someone else with their $7 beers and $5 hot dogs.not cool that they also got rid of the insanely cheap hot dog/popcorn/nachos/soda deal for $7.

ewokpelts
04-21-2010, 08:46 AM
I'm aware of that. The Golden Age of Baseball extended beyond the Great Depression and into the 1950s, just as the Yankees dynasty did.

Of course, the A's made their money by selling off players while they were still in Philadelphia. Connie Mack found that he could make more money by selling off great teams he had built -- and he built a couple of great teams -- than he could playing for championships, even before the Great Depression.

My failure to take the time to make that point clear does not change my argument.the "golden age of baseball" started after ww2. sorry to burst your bubble.

the talent explosion that occurred after jackie robinson broke the color barrier coupled with post-war optimism(and boosts in attendance). things didnt really start to warm up until the negro leagues were all but dead and guys like mays, banks, and aaron showed up. i would place baseball's "golden age" as the mid 50's to the end of the 70's.

SI1020
04-21-2010, 10:10 AM
the "golden age of baseball" started after ww2. sorry to burst your bubble.

the talent explosion that occurred after jackie robinson broke the color barrier coupled with post-war optimism(and boosts in attendance). things didnt really start to warm up until the negro leagues were all but dead and guys like mays, banks, and aaron showed up. i would place baseball's "golden age" as the mid 50's to the end of the 70's. I essentially agree with you, but I'd go for 1947-81. A little bit longer of a time period.

Carolina Kenny
04-21-2010, 10:12 AM
That's the key here.

Worst ecenomic times of our lifetime and the greedy owners continue to jack up prices for everything.

Ticket prices are too high.
The parking prices are a rip-off.
Beer and food prices too high.

Bad economic times are accelerating these problems. I submit that even with a economic rebound, baseball is in trouble with attendance. Baseball has survived poor attendance in the past. Rest assured our Comish, Bud-Lite is burning the midnight oil coming up with solutions.

Baseball has long since been the "value" entertainment. I submit, it has to become a "value" once more.

Railsplitter
04-21-2010, 10:39 AM
I don't appreciate the Sox raises prices this year given the continued state of the economy. If they were smart, they would have cut prices a tad and marketed the fact. They can gouge someone else with their $7 beers and $5 hot dogs.

I remember a feature Sport Illustrated once did on the links between beer and sports. They broke down as to how the cost of the brew was divided. The largest share didn't go to the team or the brewery, it went to the concessioniare.

soxfanatlanta
04-21-2010, 10:48 AM
I remember a feature Sport Illustrated once did on the links between beer and sports. They broke down as to how the cost of the brew was divided. The largest share didn't go to the team or the brewery, it went to the concessioniare.

It might not go directly to the owners, but it comes directly from my pocket.

Fenway
04-21-2010, 10:54 AM
Toronto no longer has a season ticket base.

TV ratings are steady so many fans are just watching at home.

Tor and Balto can gripe about being in the AL East but Tampa is dealing with it.

Economy is a factor, roid backlash not helping.

Looking at Tuesday figures

@ Toronto 10565
@Cincinnati 12965
@Pittsburgh 9386 (Pens on TV)
@Mets 27502
@Wash 15037
@Atlanta 18032
@Twins 38985 (SO)
@WS 19260 (not bad with Hawks on)
@Hous 24135
@Ariz 19855
@Sea 15931
@SD 17822
@Bos 37614 (lot of no shows)

bridgeportcopper
04-21-2010, 11:07 AM
Toronto no longer has a season ticket base.

TV ratings are steady so many fans are just watching at home.

Tor and Balto can gripe about being in the AL East but Tampa is dealing with it.

Economy is a factor, roid backlash not helping.

Looking at Tuesday figures

@ Toronto 10565
@Cincinnati 12965
@Pittsburgh 9386 (Pens on TV)
@Mets 27502
@Wash 15037
@Atlanta 18032
@Twins 38985 (SO)
@WS 19260 (not bad with Hawks on)
@Hous 24135
@Ariz 19855
@Sea 15931
@SD 17822
@Bos 37614 (lot of no shows)

no shows at a Sawx game???? I thought that was the toughest ticket in the world?

mccoydp
04-21-2010, 12:11 PM
no shows at a Sawx game???? I thought that was the toughest ticket in the world?

And the most coveted.

downstairs
04-21-2010, 12:16 PM
To borrow a phrase: Its the economy, stupid.

However, it does seem like many teams are not offering the deals they need to in order to combat the issue.

Fenway
04-21-2010, 12:17 PM
no shows at a Sawx game???? I thought that was the toughest ticket in the world?

Last night Celtics playoff at home - tonight very tough ticket for Bruins Game 4.

Sawx season ticket holders starting to panic and we are NOT allowed to use Stub Hub as Red Sox refused to be part of MLB deal signing instead with aceticket.com

The box seats are just way overpriced.

kittle42
04-21-2010, 12:48 PM
This thread is as good as any to mention that, with the Sox offering heavily discounted seats this entire week, I think season ticket holders should get mini refunds for their ticket difference for those games.

tony1972
04-21-2010, 02:28 PM
Last year for the first game when the Sox were playing the Dodgers..about 5 of us at work decided to go to the game that nite (the weather was beautiful that day). When we went online and saw how much an Upper Deck seat was for the Dodgers series..everyone said 'forget it!" and we watched the game on TV instead.

I think there was a discussion about that..how low the attendance was for the Dodgers Series. I have never been to a prime or premier game (with the exception of opening day) and never will. I only go to regular or half price games now....

Hitmen77
04-21-2010, 03:23 PM
Toronto no longer has a season ticket base.

TV ratings are steady so many fans are just watching at home.

Tor and Balto can gripe about being in the AL East but Tampa is dealing with it.

Economy is a factor, roid backlash not helping.

Looking at Tuesday figures

@ Toronto 10565
@Cincinnati 12965
@Pittsburgh 9386 (Pens on TV)
@Mets 27502
@Wash 15037
@Atlanta 18032
@Twins 38985 (SO)
@WS 19260 (not bad with Hawks on)
@Hous 24135
@Ariz 19855
@Sea 15931
@SD 17822
@Bos 37614 (lot of no shows)

...and I say that until about 10 years ago, those were very normal numbers for early to mid April. When Kerry Wood struck out 20 in 1998, only 15,000 people were in attendance (no! Wrigley has always been sold out forever and ever!:wink:).

A lot of teams saw attendance spikes with the wave of new ballparks around the league, but the economy (primarily) and perhaps also the "newness" of the ballparks wearing off are merely sending attendance levels down to their old norms.

The problem today is that MLB's competitive balance is so screwed up that all these teams feel desperate to draw 30,000+ night after night on April weeknights in a vain attempt to keep up with the Yankees and Red Sox (and a few other big market teams) spending sprees.

ewokpelts
04-21-2010, 03:25 PM
I essentially agree with you, but I'd go for 1947-81. A little bit longer of a time period.why 1981 as the end?

ewokpelts
04-21-2010, 03:28 PM
Last night Celtics playoff at home - tonight very tough ticket for Bruins Game 4.

Sawx season ticket holders starting to panic and we are NOT allowed to use Stub Hub as Red Sox refused to be part of MLB deal signing instead with aceticket.com

The box seats are just way overpriced.fens, i hat eto tell you you're wrong, but ....you're wrong. i was able to put in my bar codes to sell electronically on stubhub. AND, when you go to www.stubhub.com/boston-red-sox-tickets (http://www.stubhub.com/boston-red-sox-tickets) the redsox.com logo appears. last year, it was just the mlb.com logo

ewokpelts
04-21-2010, 03:31 PM
This thread is as good as any to mention that, with the Sox offering heavily discounted seats this entire week, I think season ticket holders should get mini refunds for their ticket difference for those games.the discounts are through group sales. season ticket holders do get discounts, but dont pay ticketbastard fees. oh, adn then there's that little thing of playoff tix attached to your account

ewokpelts
04-21-2010, 03:33 PM
Last year for the first game when the Sox were playing the Dodgers..about 5 of us at work decided to go to the game that nite (the weather was beautiful that day). When we went online and saw how much an Upper Deck seat was for the Dodgers series..everyone said 'forget it!" and we watched the game on TV instead.

I think there was a discussion about that..how low the attendance was for the Dodgers Series. I have never been to a prime or premier game (with the exception of opening day) and never will. I only go to regular or half price games now....i picked up on stubhub 2 lower reserved tix for the first sox/dodger game. the cost of those two tix on stubhub WTIH FEES was still less than the cost of ONE ticket in that price level at the box office.

LongLiveFisk
04-21-2010, 03:34 PM
To borrow a phrase: Its the economy, stupid.

However, it does seem like many teams are not offering the deals they need to in order to combat the issue.

They are probably over their heads with salaries. Well, it is what it is! (God I hate that phrase and I go and use it anyway :whistle:)

TDog
04-21-2010, 03:56 PM
the "golden age of baseball" started after ww2. sorry to burst your bubble.

the talent explosion that occurred after jackie robinson broke the color barrier coupled with post-war optimism(and boosts in attendance). things didnt really start to warm up until the negro leagues were all but dead and guys like mays, banks, and aaron showed up. i would place baseball's "golden age" as the mid 50's to the end of the 70's.


I don't have a bubble.

The Golden Age of baseball depends on who you talk to. Some consider it before World War II, with Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig, culminating with the summer of 1941 during which Joe DiMaggio hit in 56 games and Ted Williams hit .406. Some consider the Golden Age of baseball to be pre-war because it was pre-integration, and theirs is an opinion I don't respect. Some consider the Golden Age of Baseball to be the 20 years after the war because of integration. Some consider it to be the following 10 years when baseball had both a reserve clause and an amateur draft, putting the Yankees, if not in their place, at least last place. Many White Sox fans consider the Golden Age of baseball to be 1951 through 1967. Others consider it to be post-dead ball era up to free agency.

Generally, people consider the Golden Age of baseball to be a time that is long gone that they wish was back, although very few include the 1960s when a great many people in the mainstream began writing off baseball as dead (and Mutual radio discontinued its network game of the day). The song Van Lingle Mungo consists of nothing but the names of baseball players from the 1930s and 1940s with a couple from the 1950s, so I know where David Frishberg stands on this debate. A very few people have asserted the Golden Age of baseball is here and now, or at least last year or the year before when they asserted it.

Again, that really isn't the crux of my argument.

April attendance is obviously down because season ticket bases are declining due to the economy, not simply because people can't afford to go to baseball games, but because baseball had been profiting from corporate season ticket purchases. Baseball is no longer getting the strong corporate support. Tickets which had been based on what the inflated market were to bear, are overpriced for regular fans. Many teams will have to make it more affordable for fans to come to the games after losing much of their season ticket base.

ewokpelts
04-21-2010, 04:42 PM
I don't have a bubble.

The Golden Age of baseball depends on who you talk to. Some consider it before World War II, with Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig, culminating with the summer of 1941 during which Joe DiMaggio hit in 56 games and Ted Williams hit .406. Some consider the Golden Age of baseball to be pre-war because it was pre-integration, and theirs is an opinion I don't respect. Some consider the Golden Age of Baseball to be the 20 years after the war because of integration. Some consider it to be the following 10 years when baseball had both a reserve clause and an amateur draft, putting the Yankees, if not in their place, at least last place. Many White Sox fans consider the Golden Age of baseball to be 1951 through 1967. Others consider it to be post-dead ball era up to free agency.

Generally, people consider the Golden Age of baseball to be a time that is long gone that they wish was back, although very few include the 1960s when a great many people in the mainstream began writing off baseball as dead (and Mutual radio discontinued its network game of the day). The song Van Lingle Mungo consists of nothing but the names of baseball players from the 1930s and 1940s with a couple from the 1950s, so I know where David Frishberg stands on this debate. A very few people have asserted the Golden Age of baseball is here and now, or at least last year or the year before when they asserted it.

Again, that really isn't the crux of my argument.

April attendance is obviously down because season ticket bases are declining due to the economy, not simply because people can't afford to go to baseball games, but because baseball had been profiting from corporate season ticket purchases. Baseball is no longer getting the strong corporate support. Tickets which had been based on what the inflated market were to bear, are overpriced for regular fans. Many teams will have to make it more affordable for fans to come to the games after losing much of their season ticket base.2009 had the 2nd highest attended year ever, with 2008 being the highest. with the national league having thier best year ever.
teams have been very aggesssive in getting tickets sold. 2010 may be rought RIGHT NOW, but this is nothign new for sox fans. ****ty april attendance means nothing. kids are in schoiool, and money's tight.

oh, btw, sox opening week attandenace averages to about 25k per game. not bad for april.

SI1020
04-21-2010, 04:51 PM
why 1981 as the end? While I really like your timeline I look at the strike of 81 as one of the major events in MLB history. I also believe that the golden age of baseball coincided with the rise of the African American baseball player who's numbers begin to decline at this point. Additionally I look at the stars and superstars of the 80s and find them wanting in comparison to the three previous decades, although there were some strong teams like the Orioles (83), Tigers (84), Mets (86) and A's (89). For all those reasons and a few more I make 1981 my cutoff year for the golden age of baseball.

downstairs
04-21-2010, 04:51 PM
2009 had the 2nd highest attended year ever, with 2008 being the highest. with the national league having thier best year ever.
teams have been very aggesssive in getting tickets sold. 2010 may be rought RIGHT NOW, but this is nothign new for sox fans. ****ty april attendance means nothing. kids are in schoiool, and money's tight.

oh, btw, sox opening week attandenace averages to about 25k per game. not bad for april.

Yes, April is a bad month to judge. Way too much going on that doesn't go on during the summer. School, other sports, and of course crappy weather.

Baseball is a summer game.

downstairs
04-21-2010, 04:52 PM
why 1981 as the end?

Free agency really ramped up around then. It changed the game. For better or worse, we're in a completely different era- and that era certainly started around 1981.

SI1020
04-21-2010, 04:57 PM
Free agency really ramped up around then. It changed the game. For better or worse, we're in a completely different era- and that era certainly started around 1981. Yes I should have added that.

beasly213
04-21-2010, 04:58 PM
I think the last few years has proven that if the Sox are playing well and the weather is nice US Cellular has no problem getting 30K + pretty much every friday-Sunday game From May-August.

Its April not a shocker that attendance isn't super high.

TDog
04-21-2010, 05:09 PM
2009 had the 2nd highest attended year ever, with 2008 being the highest. with the national league having thier best year ever.
teams have been very aggesssive in getting tickets sold. 2010 may be rought RIGHT NOW, but this is nothign new for sox fans. ****ty april attendance means nothing. kids are in schoiool, and money's tight.

oh, btw, sox opening week attandenace averages to about 25k per game. not bad for april.

Ticket sales do not equate to fans going to games. They more strongly reflect season ticket sales. What was the announced attendance for the second game of the White Sox season? It was probably a strong indicator of where the season-ticket base because I'm guessing there were actually fewer people in the ballpark. Jerry Reinsdorf said before the 2009 season that he expected the big hit to come in 2010. The economy did not have a great impact on season ticket sales for 2009 because many were already sold before the econmic downturn hit. But this thread isn't focusing on the White Sox.

Teams that are experiencing low April attendance obviously are showing they have lost their season ticket base. In past Aprils, bad weather may have kept people away from the ballpark, but the tickets were sold and the no-shows were counted as attendance.

Teams are gong to have to be aggressive in selling tickets because they have many more to sell. They are going to have to offer better deals for fans to bring back fans previously price out from going to the games.

It isn't just a matter of bad weather, which, of course, the White Sox should have expected when they scheduled so many night games in April.

ewokpelts
04-21-2010, 05:14 PM
While I really like your timeline I look at the strike of 81 as one of the major events in MLB history. I also believe that the golden age of baseball coincided with the rise of the African American baseball player who's numbers begin to decline at this point. Additionally I look at the stars and superstars of the 80s and find them wanting in comparison to the three previous decades, although there were some strong teams like the Orioles (83), Tigers (84), Mets (86) and A's (89). For all those reasons and a few more I make 1981 my cutoff year for the golden age of baseball.
fair enough. 1981 was also the last yankees ws appearance until 1996.

ewokpelts
04-21-2010, 05:15 PM
Ticket sales do not equate to fans going to games. They more strongly reflect season ticket sales. What was the announced attendance for the second game of the White Sox season? It was probably a strong indicator of where the season-ticket base because I'm guessing there were actually fewer people in the ballpark. Jerry Reinsdorf said before the 2009 season that he expected the big hit to come in 2010. The economy did not have a great impact on season ticket sales for 2009 because many were already sold before the econmic downturn hit. But this thread isn't focusing on the White Sox.

Teams that are experiencing low April attendance obviously are showing they have lost their season ticket base. In past Aprils, bad weather may have kept people away from the ballpark, but the tickets were sold and the no-shows were counted as attendance.

Teams are gong to have to be aggressive in selling tickets because they have many more to sell. They are going to have to offer better deals for fans to bring back fans previously price out from going to the games.

It isn't just a matter of bad weather, which, of course, the White Sox should have expected when they scheduled so many night games in April.crowd was between 18-19k PAID attendance. comps dont count toward sox #'s

ewokpelts
04-21-2010, 05:19 PM
Ticket sales do not equate to fans going to games. They more strongly reflect season ticket sales. What was the announced attendance for the second game of the White Sox season? It was probably a strong indicator of where the season-ticket base because I'm guessing there were actually fewer people in the ballpark. Jerry Reinsdorf said before the 2009 season that he expected the big hit to come in 2010. The economy did not have a great impact on season ticket sales for 2009 because many were already sold before the econmic downturn hit. But this thread isn't focusing on the White Sox.

Teams that are experiencing low April attendance obviously are showing they have lost their season ticket base. In past Aprils, bad weather may have kept people away from the ballpark, but the tickets were sold and the no-shows were counted as attendance.

Teams are gong to have to be aggressive in selling tickets because they have many more to sell. They are going to have to offer better deals for fans to bring back fans previously price out from going to the games.

It isn't just a matter of bad weather, which, of course, the White Sox should have expected when they scheduled so many night games in April.
look at teh teams cited. toronto, baltimore, pittsburgh, houston....all bad teams the last few years. it's painfully obvious that those teams have a low st base

kittle42
04-21-2010, 05:39 PM
the discounts are through group sales. season ticket holders do get discounts, but dont pay ticketbastard fees. oh, adn then there's that little thing of playoff tix attached to your account

I'm not saying we don't get perks. I still think I have a somewhat valid point, though.

ewokpelts
04-22-2010, 08:38 AM
I'm not saying we don't get perks. I still think I have a somewhat valid point, though.A season ticket holder gets a different experience than someone who may go to one or two games a year through a grand slam group or some other deal. The key difference is the lack of third party fees(ticketmaster, stubhub, ect). I had a pair of UDR tix i got off ebay for tuesday's game, and the printed face value was $13. only $3 more than what the 1/2 off code sold UDR tix for. but without $2.50 per ticket in ticketmaster fees. So it can and does even out.

Even if you have a code for almost every game, the cost savings of buying with a code wont be much over what you get as an st holder. and that's not counting the perks into the equation.

Fenway
04-22-2010, 09:10 AM
One of the big reasons people bought season tickets was to be guaranteed post-season seats.

Toronto has a problem that suddenly the Skydome looks and feels old...and take away the roof you have Three Rivers Stadium.

12 years ago the hottest ticket in MLB was Cleveland. New stadium, winning team and NO football. Now it is a night out...maybe.

Pittsburgh may have the best of the new parks but a generation of losing.

Baltimore fans just hate the owner.

When I was young a ticket to a sporting event was not that much more than a movie ticket. Everything is out of sync now.

RockJock07
04-22-2010, 07:12 PM
I'm a ticket sales rep for the Memphis Redbirds and our season seat base has declined every year since AutoZone Park was built in 2000.

I can pretty much bet on Full season packages declining everywhere this past off-season. Teams just have to offer smaller packages, 20-30 game plans are becoming very popular with season ticket holders.

That said the Milwaukee Brewers have drawn 3 million plus the last 2 season.