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View Full Version : Sox seem full of fragile psyches


Harry Chappas
04-19-2010, 10:39 AM
I was reading Walker's comments in today's Sun-Times. He was talking about how the hardest thing to teach is confidence and how playing in a major market like Chicago can be hard on guys and they start to press. Is it me, or does this affliction seem to be more pronounced here than elsewhere - even other "major markets"?

I can't decide whether we struggle offensively because we have a team comprised mostly of streaky hitters, or, that our players seem to have little in the way of intestinal fortitude. Or we could just be bad.

Lip Man 1
04-19-2010, 11:08 AM
I've personally believed that for years and part of the reason that confirms it for me is the lack of any kind of vocal, in-your-face leaders in the locker room.

Lip

bestkosher
04-19-2010, 11:14 AM
Question is how does one fix that.

Many players now a days are very sensitive to the game. They have a hard game they take it personally. There really is no easy test to say who has the guts and who doesn't. All you can go by is word of mouth of other managers and that can change as soon as you give someone a large contract or a freak injury happens.

Lip Man 1
04-19-2010, 11:30 AM
Think about it though.

How often since 2007 have we heard the following:

"It's early..."
"It's really cold right now..."
"Our Latin players aren't used to the weather..."
"You've got to tip your hat to _______"

I understand it's very hard to do what these guys do. If it was easy anybody could do it but the fact remains that other clubs play in cold weather, other clubs have a number of Latin players, other clubs face pitchers they've never seen before.

And the fact is that other clubs are winning a hell of a lot more games then the Sox since 2007.

I personally think that some of these guys even if they have only been here a year or two are to willing to "accept their fate," for want of a better word.

That's where real team leaders come in. Guys who refuse to accept the status quo and are willing to do something about it.

And you're right, you can find these guys. That type of intensity, reputation gets out among the baseball community.

It's not the be all, end all to the Sox problems but to me it would be a way to start solving the issues.

Chemistry is an unquantifyable thing but when you have it, say for example the 1990 White Sox, it can lead to great seasons.

Lip

Chez
04-19-2010, 11:47 AM
I've personally believed that for years and part of the reason that confirms it for me is the lack of any kind of vocal, in-your-face leaders in the locker room.

Lip

A.J. seems to fit that description.

sox1970
04-19-2010, 11:52 AM
A.J. seems to fit that description.

I don't know that to be true.

Nellie_Fox
04-19-2010, 11:53 AM
I don't know that to be true.A lot of people here don't know a lot of things to be true; that doesn't stop them from stating it as fact.

SI1020
04-19-2010, 12:16 PM
A lot of people here don't know a lot of things to be true; that doesn't stop them from stating it as fact. I don't know how you could prove that you know this, but I think the manager has the most fragile psyche of all. I also think that if the team continues on its current path you ain't seen nothing yet in that regard. The Gary Cooper type alpha male is just about as extinct as the dodo bird, but this team could really use a quietly strong and stable hand now. Does that really sound like Ozzie?

bestkosher
04-19-2010, 12:21 PM
I don't know how you could prove that you know this, but I think the manager has the most fragile psyche of all. I also think that if the team continues on its current path you ain't seen nothing yet in that regard. The Gary Cooper type alpha male is just about as extinct as the dodo bird, but this team could really use a quietly strong and stable hand now. Does that really sound like Ozzie?


So are you saying we should hire Baines or use one of the statues as coach they are quietly strong and nothing is more steady than those hands heck they will not move unless there is an earthquake.

beasly213
04-19-2010, 12:24 PM
I've personally believed that for years and part of the reason that confirms it for me is the lack of any kind of vocal, in-your-face leaders in the locker room.

Lip


So we need Paul Konerko to start yelling and screaming in peoples faces and that is suddenly going to make the team hit better?

Come on... :rolleyes:

Having yelling and screaming may make the fans feel good that the players are just as mad as us but it won't help the team hit.

SI1020
04-19-2010, 12:29 PM
So are you saying we should hire Baines or use one of the statues as coach they are quietly strong and nothing is more steady than those hands heck they will not move unless there is an earthquake. I guess you're not a Gary Cooper fan.

Chez
04-19-2010, 12:34 PM
A lot of people here don't know a lot of things to be true; that doesn't stop them from stating it as fact.

Nellie, I hope this isn't referring to my post. I said A.J. seems to fit that description (the description of an in your face leader from Lip's post). That's far from a statement of fact.

Nellie_Fox
04-19-2010, 01:35 PM
Nellie, I hope this isn't referring to my post. I said A.J. seems to fit that description (the description of an in your face leader from Lip's post). That's far from a statement of fact.It wasn't directed at you. It was directed at people who make all kinds of statements about what they believe is going on behind the scenes and state it as fact.

Harry Chappas
04-19-2010, 01:37 PM
Without poring over statistics, it's seems the good hitters we have on the team cobble together their above-average statistics with wild, high and low, fluctuations. It'd be nice to have a a guy that winds up hitting .280, keep it steady through the entire season.

Maybe every fanbase has the same complaint, but the Sox are just so bi-polar when it comes to hitting.

Sox
04-19-2010, 01:45 PM
Whether or not the problems surrounding this 2010 version of the White Sox is real or imagined pysche problems or not I believe that they will at some point turn things around. I'm not ready at this point to call it a season already!! Some people are so impatient this early in the season. And for the life of me I'm trying to figure out why? Maybe its the E.F.A.S.S (Epic Failure Already Sox Syndrome)! Take a deep breath and relax my Fellow White Sox fans. Let not your heart be troubled!

guillensdisciple
04-19-2010, 01:48 PM
I was reading Walker's comments in today's Sun-Times. He was talking about how the hardest thing to teach is confidence and how playing in a major market like Chicago can be hard on guys and they start to press. Is it me, or does this affliction seem to be more pronounced here than elsewhere - even other "major markets"?

I can't decide whether we struggle offensively because we have a team comprised mostly of streaky hitters, or, that our players seem to have little in the way of intestinal fortitude. Or we could just be bad.


Honestly, if you can't play under the pressure, go play baseball somewhere else. That is such horse****. You're a professional, your job is to play baseball in front of crowds everyday. Wow, really sucks that you chose a career path that pays you 423223 million dollars a year. The least you can do is play uner pressure.

Red Barchetta
04-19-2010, 01:54 PM
Think about it though.

How often since 2007 have we heard the following:

"It's early..."
"It's really cold right now..."
"Our Latin players aren't used to the weather..."
"You've got to tip your hat to _______"

I understand it's very hard to do what these guys do. If it was easy anybody could do it but the fact remains that other clubs play in cold weather, other clubs have a number of Latin players, other clubs face pitchers they've never seen before.

And the fact is that other clubs are winning a hell of a lot more games then the Sox since 2007.

I personally think that some of these guys even if they have only been here a year or two are to willing to "accept their fate," for want of a better word.

That's where real team leaders come in. Guys who refuse to accept the status quo and are willing to do something about it.

And you're right, you can find these guys. That type of intensity, reputation gets out among the baseball community.

It's not the be all, end all to the Sox problems but to me it would be a way to start solving the issues.

Chemistry is an unquantifyable thing but when you have it, say for example the 1990 White Sox, it can lead to great seasons.

Lip

I agree. Add the following (mods - notice the correct form of editing) :D:

- "We don't play well in domes"
- "We don't play well on the west coast road trips"

The reason the Yankees have won 27 World Series is because this kind of mental approach is simply not tolerated. All teams have to play in domes. All teams have to play in cold weather. All teams have to play a west coast road trip.

This organization needs more mental toughness.

SI1020
04-19-2010, 02:50 PM
Honestly, if you can't play under the pressure, go play baseball somewhere else. That is such horse****. You're a professional, your job is to play baseball in front of crowds everyday. Wow, really sucks that you chose a career path that pays you 423223 million dollars a year. The least you can do is play uner pressure. The history of sports is filled with examples of those who rose to the occasion. There were good reasons to call Reggie Jackson Mr. October. It is equally filled with examples of athletes, some of them superstars who wilted in the spotlight of championship pressure.

Harry Chappas
04-19-2010, 03:45 PM
I agree. Add the following (mods - notice the correct form of editing) :D:

- "We don't play well in domes"
- "We don't play well on the west coast road trips"

The reason the Yankees have won 27 World Series is because this kind of mental approach is simply not tolerated. All teams have to play in domes. All teams have to play in cold weather. All teams have to play a west coast road trip.

This organization needs more mental toughness.

But does the organization give life to these myths or is it the media? I'm not sure about some of the stuff, but it seems like the players have been vocal about their hatred of domes in the past. By voicing this stuff it makes you wonder if it doesn't start to become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Considering the 2010 team looks nothing like last year's team, I have to wonder if this crap isn't contagious.

Ranger
04-19-2010, 04:13 PM
A.J. seems to fit that description.

He isn't really like that. He only gets fired up occasionally and usually it happens on the field. But he's not really a rah-rah kind of guy.

Crestani
04-19-2010, 04:22 PM
Considering the 2010 team looks nothing like last year's team, I have to wonder if this crap isn't contagious.


Its been contagious since 2006! In 2005 i felt very comfortable with a man at third and less than two outs knowing he would score. Beginning in 2006, same scenario and I started wondering why we couldn't get that run home. Same thing 2007, 2008, & 2009. Now in 2010, it is how we going to leave this guy out there, strike out, weak grounder, or as in lately, a 4-6-3 double play? :angry:

Chez
04-19-2010, 04:46 PM
He isn't really like that. He only gets fired up occasionally and usually it happens on the field. But he's not really a rah-rah kind of guy.

Fair enough. Does this team have anyone who you believe to be a vocal leader like the type described by Lip?

Lip Man 1
04-19-2010, 07:56 PM
Beasley:

To be perfectly honest with you...yes I think it would help the hitters. Not done in an insulting way, but done with (as an example) 'OK we're talking additional hitting work, EVERYBODY, you, me, everyone, this **** had got to stop and we're going to start right now.'

But no one on the team has the personality to do this.

Peavy just got here, he can't, Beckham may eventually be able to do it but not in his second year, A.J. has mellowed a lot...that leaves ?

I'm old school Beasley, when things are going bad you work harder, start motivating, be there for your teammates, if you have to have a fight on the field to get the team going...(as the Yankees under Stengel ALWAYS did) you do it.

Lip

RichFitztightly
04-19-2010, 08:59 PM
Think about it though.

How often since 2007 have we heard the following:

"It's early..."
"It's really cold right now..."
"Our Latin players aren't used to the weather..."
"You've got to tip your hat to _______"



Lip

That last one irritates me the most. I hate when I hear that said in the press conferences. The quote I would add to that list is, "We're not too far back, just wait until we hit a hot streak."

A hot streak doesn't just happen. You have to work hard to win the game you're playing that night. Then the next night, you have to do whatever you can to win that game... so on and so on. Hopefully you then string together a bunch of wins, but a hot streak will never happen if you passively hope to win games.

gosox41
04-19-2010, 09:43 PM
A.J. seems to fit that description.


So does Peavy.

Bob

gosox41
04-19-2010, 09:46 PM
Without poring over statistics, it's seems the good hitters we have on the team cobble together their above-average statistics with wild, high and low, fluctuations. It'd be nice to have a a guy that winds up hitting .280, keep it steady through the entire season.

Maybe every fanbase has the same complaint, but the Sox are just so bi-polar when it comes to hitting.


Consistency would be great out of a hitter.

What would also be nice is if not every hitter stunk at one time. I doubt there's a correlation, but when this team struggles over the last few years, it seems as if everyone is playing lousy. Why do the same guys consistently start slow. Why can't a couple start hot once in awhile?


Bob

twinslayer
04-19-2010, 09:48 PM
Sounds to me these guys just don't want to show up every day and play baseball. I don't care if we have 25 guys from our Class-A affiliate, get 25 guys who want to play ****ing baseball and do what they get paid to do.

gosox41
04-19-2010, 09:49 PM
Beasley:

To be perfectly honest with you...yes I think it would help the hitters. Not done in an insulting way, but done with (as an example) 'OK we're talking additional hitting work, EVERYBODY, you, me, everyone, this **** had got to stop and we're going to start right now.'

But no one on the team has the personality to do this.

Peavy just got here, he can't, Beckham may eventually be able to do it but not in his second year, A.J. has mellowed a lot...that leaves ?

I'm old school Beasley, when things are going bad you work harder, start motivating, be there for your teammates, if you have to have a fight on the field to get the team going...(as the Yankees under Stengel ALWAYS did) you do it.

Lip


All for motivation, but there is a point where 'working harder' can bite one in the butt. If a player is pressing too much, sometimes a much needed break is needed.

It reminds of me Wannstedt. When the Bears weren't winning he just worked the players harder and harder.


Bob

Ranger
04-20-2010, 12:37 AM
Fair enough. Does this team have anyone who you believe to be a vocal leader like the type described by Lip?

Not really any position players. Maybe Pierre. Gordon could be like that someday maybe.

Red Barchetta
04-20-2010, 07:31 AM
That last one irritates me the most. I hate when I hear that said in the press conferences. The quote I would add to that list is, "We're not too far back, just wait until we hit a hot streak."

A hot streak doesn't just happen. You have to work hard to win the game you're playing that night. Then the next night, you have to do whatever you can to win that game... so on and so on. Hopefully you then string together a bunch of wins, but a hot streak will never happen if you passively hope to win games.

That was probably THE most frustrating thing about last season. We kept waiting for the "hot streak" and it never came.

In fact, just when I thought they were going to take over the division (After Mark's Perfect game that moved them into a tie for first place), they collapsed. :(:

Lip Man 1
04-20-2010, 11:19 AM
Red:

What did you expect. Remember they had that double header in Detroit the very next day after Mark's perfect game, an absolutely huge twin bill......who were the Sox starting pitchers?

Contreras and Colon.

Nuff said.

Sox get swept, blow a late lead in the Saturday game are were back on their heels.

Lip