PDA

View Full Version : This is the lowest I've felt to start a season in a very long time


Konerko05
04-19-2010, 04:19 AM
Some of the 90's were horrible, but that was before a lot of people could even imagine the Sox becoming an elite team/playoff contender/world Series champions.

This team doesn't even feel like a real team. I can't describe it. There's just nothing there. Even great pitching performances don't seem great or excite me. The bullpen has been cool to watch. I still love watching Beckham bat, but the rest is just blah.

Oh, and I should mention Rios. I'm impressed. I always knew he had talent, but it's nice to see it being used to confirm it's actually there.

Not really sure if this was worthy enough of a thread, but yeah, baseball sucks right now.

joegraz
04-19-2010, 05:46 AM
Some of the 90's were horrible, but that was before a lot of people could even imagine the Sox becoming an elite team/playoff contender/world Series champions.

This team doesn't even feel like a real team. I can't describe it. There's just nothing there. Even great pitching performances don't seem great or excite me. The bullpen has been cool to watch. I still love watching Beckham bat, but the rest is just blah.

Oh, and I should mention Rios. I'm impressed. I always knew he had talent, but it's nice to see it being used to confirm it's actually there.

Not really sure if this was worthy enough of a thread, but yeah, baseball sucks right now.

Well put. It looked good on paper, then opening day. But then all the familiar warts were showing.

LITTLE NELL
04-19-2010, 06:18 AM
Worst start I can remember since the 1968 season when we went 0-10.
That was a real bummer since we came so close to winning the A.L in 67.
Things are not looking good with the Rays coming up next on the schedule. I watch a lot of their games and they are a solid club and just might beat out the Yankees and BoSox this year.

harwar
04-19-2010, 06:52 AM
the Rays are playing well but i like that we have Danks and Buehrle for the first two games .. i'm hoping that the day off helped and that the hitters can just relax a little when at the plate .. try and hit the ball up the middle, instead of in the outfield seats .. you know, back to basics .. i read where A.J. said .. "it will be good to get away from this game for at least a day and think about something else and get back at it on tuesday" .. not what i want to hear two weeks in ..

JB98
04-19-2010, 12:17 PM
The Rays are getting ready to finish off a sweep in Boston today. We have to hope Tampa Bay will suffer a letdown when it gets to Chicago.

guillen4life13
04-19-2010, 01:40 PM
I hope this team is able to rebound better than the 2001 team, which started 14-29 then went on to finish 83-79.

That year, the pitching staff was decimated by injuries (D. Wells, Jim Parque, and Cal Eldred all went down), but the offense was able to score 798 runs without any major contributions from Big Frank.

DirtySox
04-19-2010, 01:50 PM
The Rays are getting ready to finish off a sweep in Boston today. We have to hope Tampa Bay will suffer a letdown when it gets to Chicago.

I predict Wade Davis shutting us down, and people proclaiming him Cy Davis or a no-name pitcher.

That said, I'm excited to see him pitch. He's a great prospect. The rays continue to swim in ridiculous pitching depth.

Frontman
04-19-2010, 02:53 PM
I'm depressed by them too; but Boers and Bernstein pointed something out today that still is true:

It's very early in the season, and this isn't because of "Ozzieball." This is because they're not hitting, period.

Dye and Thome aren't here because they weren't hitting last year. Thome and Dye wouldn't change that the team as a whole isn't hitting. To do the "See, see, I told you Ozzieball doesn't work!!!" with a dozen game sample size doesn't make sense. Nor does it make sense to say Kenny left "Ozzie out to dry" with this.

I have a feeling that if we have another two weeks of this type of baseball; Kenny isn't going to give the current roster another 4 weeks to turn it around. He had zero qualms about launching Wilson Betemit last year; I don't think he'll have qualms about launching Kotsay or Teahan this year.

Noneck
04-19-2010, 03:00 PM
I don't think he'll have qualms about launching Kotsay or Teahan this year.

If Teahan doesn't hit, Williams has 2 chances of launching him at his salary, Fat and None.

DirtySox
04-19-2010, 03:08 PM
I'm depressed by them too; but Boers and Bernstein pointed something out today that still is true:

It's very early in the season, and this isn't because of "Ozzieball." This is because they're not hitting, period.

Dye and Thome aren't here because they weren't hitting last year. Thome and Dye wouldn't change that the team as a whole isn't hitting. To do the "See, see, I told you Ozzieball doesn't work!!!" with a dozen game sample size doesn't make sense. Nor does it make sense to say Kenny left "Ozzie out to dry" with this.

I have a feeling that if we have another two weeks of this type of baseball; Kenny isn't going to give the current roster another 4 weeks to turn it around. He had zero qualms about launching Wilson Betemit last year; I don't think he'll have qualms about launching Kotsay or Teahan this year.

And why exactly would he be launching Teahen?

Kotsay and Teahen are far apart on the current performance spectrum. Teahen is nowhere near Kotsay territory.

Frontman
04-19-2010, 03:15 PM
And why exactly would he be launching Teahen?

Kotsay and Teahen are far apart on the current performance spectrum. Teahen is nowhere near Kotsay territory.

Just two names that are hated by the Sox fan base. Harder to launch Konerko than it is to launch Kotsay (for example.)

But again; Kenny isn't willing to waste an entire season. He'll drop players that are being paid if it means getting a winning team, which means getting more of us to the ballpark.

Hopefully they go on a nice win streak and all of this gets lost in the rearview soon.

jabrch
04-19-2010, 03:36 PM
I'm depressed by them too; but Boers and Bernstein pointed something out today that still is true:

It's very early in the season, and this isn't because of "Ozzieball." This is because they're not hitting, period.

Chicago sports two largest contrarians...hating on the Sox in the preseason, now being the voices of reason. Those guys do a great job drawing listeners by saying the exact opposite of what most are saying and thinking. Kudos to B&B for loving what I hate and hating what I love.

jabrch
04-19-2010, 03:37 PM
I don't think he'll have qualms about launching Kotsay or Teahan this year.

Kotsay - Agreed
Teahen - Disagree

He signed MT to a 3 year deal. He isn't going to launch him anywhere after a few weeks/months.

downstairs
04-19-2010, 03:43 PM
Yeah, its early... but this team scares me. The stuff that's making them lose is the stuff we all questioned. These aren't freak losses, they're not bad luck. Its the weakness we all thought they may or may not have.

Konerko05
04-19-2010, 03:46 PM
"Ozzieball."

"Ozzieball" doesn't exist. I'm sick of hearing about. Just play good baseball.

This team isn't even close to fundamentally sound. You think out of all these years of Ozzie preaching fundaments, this team would acquire some players with them or it would be learned through the organization.

Beckham and Rios are like the only two sound baseball players on this team.

The left side of the infield is kind a joke. Ramirez's defense has been ok this year, but I've never seen a player just all over the place in general.

The team that was just fundamentally sound almost all around was 2005. Yeah, I'm referencing it, because Crede's and Uribe's defense were a massive part of that team. Those two were incredible defensively. If you don't think that took the pitching staff to another level, you weren't paying attention close enough.

Ranger
04-19-2010, 04:07 PM
And why exactly would he be launching Teahen?

Kotsay and Teahen are far apart on the current performance spectrum. Teahen is nowhere near Kotsay territory.

I don't really understand any frustration with Teahen so far. Hitting .267 and getting on base at .436. OPS over .900. I have absolutely no problem with that.

Teahen is playing just fine right now.

spawn
04-19-2010, 04:20 PM
I don't really understand any frustration with Teahen so far. Hitting .267 and getting on base at .436. OPS over .900. I have absolutely no problem with that.

Teahen is playing just fine right now.
The problem is, people still remember how he struggled in ST and his initial struggles to start the season. I agree with you though. He's been fine.

Nellie_Fox
04-19-2010, 04:34 PM
The problem is, peopel still remember how he struggled in ST and his initial struggles to start the season. I agree with you though. He's been fine.Once somebody becomes labeled here, he has hell to pay to change his status.

Ranger
04-19-2010, 04:42 PM
The problem is, peopel still remember how he struggled in ST and his initial struggles to start the season. I agree with you though. He's been fine.

Once somebody becomes labeled here, he has hell to pay to change his status.

Kind of like Beckham being labeled the Best Hitter On The Team? That association has been made a few hundred times on this and other boards. Beckham is probably going to be a very good MLB hitter...but he sure as hell isn't there yet.

cnw8052
04-19-2010, 06:44 PM
Fundamentals :?:

What I'd like to know is how so many of these players even made it this far with such bad fundamentals. They surely knew how to play the game at some point to stand out against all the other college/minor league players??? I wouldn't think you'd just forget how to play. Makes no sense.

This team isn't even close to fundamentally sound. You think out of all these years of Ozzie preaching fundaments, this team would acquire some players with them or it would be learned through the organization.

Beckham and Rios are like the only two sound baseball players on this team.

The left side of the infield is kind a joke. Ramirez's defense has been ok this year, but I've never seen a player just all over the place in general.

The team that was just fundamentally sound almost all around was 2005. Yeah, I'm referencing it, because Crede's and Uribe's defense were a massive part of that team. Those two were incredible defensively. If you don't think that took the pitching staff to another level, you weren't paying attention close enough.

masloan
04-19-2010, 09:55 PM
Kind of like Beckham being labeled the Best Hitter On The Team? That association has been made a few hundred times on this and other boards. Beckham is probably going to be a very good MLB hitter...but he sure as hell isn't there yet.

Uh oh Ranger...be careful. Beckham and Quentin are already locks for the HOF if you ask some of the members of this board.

Nelfox02
04-19-2010, 10:23 PM
Kind of like Beckham being labeled the Best Hitter On The Team? That association has been made a few hundred times on this and other boards. Beckham is probably going to be a very good MLB hitter...but he sure as hell isn't there yet.



Finally-----its about time he sure as hell is not there yet

LoveYourSuit
04-19-2010, 10:38 PM
Kind of like Beckham being labeled the Best Hitter On The Team? That association has been made a few hundred times on this and other boards. Beckham is probably going to be a very good MLB hitter...but he sure as hell isn't there yet.


Great post Ranger!

He looks over-matched sometimes, he is still very raw but folks expect greatness from him right away.

doublem23
04-19-2010, 10:43 PM
Great post Ranger!

He looks over-matched sometimes, he is still very raw but folks expect greatness from him right away.

I think the fact that he's had just about the least time working with Walker is fueling our optimism.

Ranger
04-20-2010, 12:34 AM
Uh oh Ranger...be careful. Beckham and Quentin are already locks for the HOF if you ask some of the members of this board.

Beckham is getting much more love than Q is.

I think the fact that he's had just about the least time working with Walker is fueling our optimism.

Greg Walker is not going to ruin Gordon Beckham.

masloan
04-20-2010, 04:43 AM
Beckham is getting much more love than Q is.



Might be true, but Quentin has been tons more disappointing. He has had 1 great game, and while he has hit some balls hard that have been caught, overall he has been a huge disappointment.

doublem23
04-20-2010, 05:41 AM
Greg Walker is not going to ruin Gordon Beckham.

Well my comment was light-hearted... But... he might. :shrug:

Frontman
04-20-2010, 06:41 AM
Well my comment was light-hearted... But... he might. :shrug:

Anything can happen. Even the best hitting coaches might overlook a flaw that could be addressed or have a player who listens in the cage, then go on autopilot in game.

Beckham doesn't seem that sort of player; but who knows until his story is completely told.

kitekrazy
04-20-2010, 08:11 AM
Fundamentals :?:

What I'd like to know is how so many of these players even made it this far with such bad fundamentals. They surely knew how to play the game at some point to stand out against all the other college/minor league players??? I wouldn't think you'd just forget how to play. Makes no sense.

I guess the steroid era has a lot to do with that. If you can hit at least 30 homers who cares what your other deficiencies are.

Shoeless
04-20-2010, 08:29 AM
I guess the steroid era has a lot to do with that. If you can hit at least 30 homers who cares what your other deficiencies are.

So who exactly on the White Sox roster did steroids? Not challenging your idea, but I'm wondering if you think any Sox did.

Gammons Peter
04-20-2010, 08:38 AM
So who exactly on the White Sox roster did steroids? Not challenging your idea, but I'm wondering if you think any Sox did.


I'd say about 60% of them did some form of roids.

DaveFeelsRight
04-20-2010, 08:47 AM
nothing is over until it's over. the astros started the season 19-32, then headed off to the world series.

Hitmen77
04-20-2010, 08:47 AM
This is the earliest I've felt this disappointed in this team since before 2005. Even in the lousy '07 and '09 seasons, I seem to remember them at least waiting until mid May until falling apart and sinking far below the division lead.

After 4 years, I'm tired of all the same old excuses: wait until Kenny and Ozzie get the better defensive players they want, wait until they dump the "softball sluggers" for a more flexible team, it's the cold weather - wait until the weather warms up!, you just have to tip your cap to the other pitcher, that umpire was brutal, one more bat isn't going to make a difference, blah, blah, blah....

Quite frankly, I have stopped watching the games. It's just a waste of time. Ozzie and Kenny have had 6 years to put together a good defensive team and our defense still sucks. Going into 2010, this is the lineup Ozzie wanted. Sluggers at DH isn't the way to go. All we need is Kotsay/Jones/Vizquel to fill that spot. Now we got what Ozzie wanted and now we're stuck with it.

....but don't worry, KW will magically acquire Adrian Gonzalez for our lineup if we need him!

white sox bill
04-20-2010, 09:02 AM
Not even the the 3rd full week of April and throwing the towel in...hmmm

Time for another White Flag Trade!

Carolina Kenny
04-20-2010, 10:22 AM
This is the earliest I've felt this disappointed in this team since before 2005. Even in the lousy '07 and '09 seasons, I seem to remember them at least waiting until mid May until falling apart and sinking far below the division lead.

After 4 years, I'm tired of all the same old excuses: wait until Kenny and Ozzie get the better defensive players they want, wait until they dump the "softball sluggers" for a more flexible team, it's the cold weather - wait until the weather warms up!, you just have to tip your cap to the other pitcher, that umpire was brutal, one more bat isn't going to make a difference, blah, blah, blah....

Quite frankly, I have stopped watching the games. It's just a waste of time. Ozzie and Kenny have had 6 years to put together a good defensive team and our defense still sucks. Going into 2010, this is the lineup Ozzie wanted. Sluggers at DH isn't the way to go. All we need is Kotsay/Jones/Vizquel to fill that spot. Now we got what Ozzie wanted and now we're stuck with it.

....but don't worry, KW will magically acquire Adrian Gonzalez for our lineup if we need him!

I don't care what the company line is. Our defense is still not at the same level as our pitching staff. Our offense sucks really bad right now and when that happens a ballclub looks flat.
The Sox are flat, and not easy to watch right now.

mzh
04-20-2010, 10:40 AM
Does the season end after 13 games? What a team lookms like in the first week and two thirds has absolutely no correlation right now to what they might be doing in September. We know these guys are better than they are playing, have a little faith. If Bartolo Colon, Jose Contreras, and Wise were all starting I'd think differently, but come on! Look at our roster! We are better than we are playing. Come on, stop acting like 13 games is the end of the ****ing season.

Nellie_Fox
04-20-2010, 10:40 AM
So who exactly on the White Sox roster did steroids? Not challenging your idea, but I'm wondering if you think any Sox did.Please don't start baseless slandering of Sox players.

JC456
04-20-2010, 10:59 AM
Some of the 90's were horrible, but that was before a lot of people could even imagine the Sox becoming an elite team/playoff contender/world Series champions.

This team doesn't even feel like a real team. I can't describe it. There's just nothing there. Even great pitching performances don't seem great or excite me. The bullpen has been cool to watch. I still love watching Beckham bat, but the rest is just blah.

Oh, and I should mention Rios. I'm impressed. I always knew he had talent, but it's nice to see it being used to confirm it's actually there.

Not really sure if this was worthy enough of a thread, but yeah, baseball sucks right now.

I say relax and let the learn how to win as a team. IMO, they are struggling to know who they are. That is a tough thing to find when new players are added. I am not going to panic just because they are struggling at the moment. I see encouraging signs from several players who had bad 2009s. Let that work its way to the others and I expect good things!

JC456
04-20-2010, 11:02 AM
Does the season end after 13 games? What a team lookms like in the first week and two thirds has absolutely no correlation right now to what they might be doing in September. We know these guys are better than they are playing, have a little faith. If Bartolo Colon, Jose Contreras, and Wise were all starting I'd think differently, but come on! Look at our roster! We are better than we are playing. Come on, stop acting like 13 games is the end of the ****ing season.
Remember September 2005? Thirty games over 500 and couldn't win in September. We know how that ended, but my point is it is a long year and halves are just that halves.

Here's looking at a strong second half maybe the first one in decades!

Lip Man 1
04-20-2010, 11:11 AM
It's very interesting as the debate between the "home run or nothing" vs. "Ozzie-Ball" fans rages on that in today's Idaho State Journal was a Newsday story by Ken Davidoff.

The headline?

"Pitching, defense all the rage, Power hitting days in majors are now over"

Philosophically Ozzie is right in my opinion, the problem is that regardless of what "style" you want to play, you've got to have the talent to do it.

The last few years the Sox didn't have the talent to play "home run or nothing" consistently and it appears they don't have the talent to play Ozzie-Ball either.

We'll see.

Lip

Trav
04-20-2010, 11:14 AM
Not many baseball fans here anymore I guess. This team is better than the teams with revolving doors for our fourth and fifth starters. There are a few guys actually playing as bad this thread suggests. Outside of just a few games the Sox have had a chance to win every day. It sucks loosing to a team like Cleveland (try being there in person for the sweep), but they have been more fun to watch than team they had last year.

If the offense can get on a roll before the bullpen falls off no one will even remember how they started. I think they will get started faster than when they were playing station to station.

soltrain21
04-20-2010, 11:23 AM
Not many baseball fans here anymore I guess. This team is better than the teams with revolving doors for our fourth and fifth starters. There are a few guys actually playing as bad this thread suggests. Outside of just a few games the Sox have had a chance to win every day. It sucks loosing to a team like Cleveland (try being there in person for the sweep), but they have been more fun to watch than team they had last year.

If the offense can get on a roll before the bullpen falls off no one will even remember how they started. I think they will get started faster than when they were playing station to station.

Yes, that is totally what it is. You hit the nail on the head. :rolleyes:

Carolina Kenny
04-20-2010, 11:43 AM
Yes, that is totally what it is. You hit the nail on the head. :rolleyes:

Part of my disillusion with the 2010 Sox is that they don't have any definition yet. Are they:

Good Field--No Hit
Good Hit-- No Field
Good Pitch--No Hit
Good Power--No Pitch
Good Starters--No Relief
No Relief--No Starters
Good Power--Slow
Average Power--Good Speed
Balance Attack--Bad Attack
Over Achievers--Under Achievers

Good Guys Wear Black
Winning Ugly
Southside Hitmen
World Champs
Divisional Winners
Grinders

What would you presently call this bunch??

pudge
04-20-2010, 11:45 AM
nothing is over until it's over. the astros started the season 19-32, then headed off to the world series.

Seriously, if I hear this example one more time, I'm going to bash my skull with a crowbar. The fact that everyone points to the one or two freakin' rare examples is proof positive why it's such a fool's game.

Nellie_Fox
04-20-2010, 01:21 PM
Seriously, if I hear this example one more time, I'm going to bash my skull with a crowbar.Don't make promises you don't intend to keep.

The fact that everyone points to the one or two freakin' rare examples is proof positive why it's such a fool's game.People have listed more than one or two examples of teams coming back from worse holes than the 2010 Sox find themselves in. Way too early to declare the season over.

FielderJones
04-20-2010, 02:09 PM
Part of my disillusion with the 2010 Sox is that they don't have any definition yet.

Under Achievers


Player Current Avg Career Avg

Pierre .208 .300
Beckham .240 .266
Quentin .200 .253
Konerko .214 .277
Jones .296 .258 yay
Pierzynski .171 .285
Rios .265 .281
Teahen .267 .269
Ramirez .233 .281
So, we have one bright spot on the team and a bunch of veterans hitting 50-100 points below their career averages. So, unless you think the entire team is washed up, we're looking at some serious under achieving right now.

mzh
04-20-2010, 02:54 PM
So, we have one bright spot on the team and a bunch of veterans hitting 50-100 points below their career averages. So, unless you think the entire team is washed up, we're looking at some serious under achieving right now.

So my point of view is that while they may underachieve, it shouldn't be this bad, and when they snap out of it it should be good enough for our pitching to take care of the rest.

slavko
04-20-2010, 03:09 PM
The good news is: Won't spend the whole year worrying about the bullpen.

(Although Thornton lacks something I can't put my finger on. Maybe like a second pitch. Or the guts to close.)