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pudge
06-16-2002, 07:46 PM
Here are my quick reactions after watching this ugly chi-town series...

1) Please don't anybody jump on the Carlos Lee bandwagon or pat him on the back (I haven't really seen anyone do so yet, so that's good). He got two fat ones against struggling pitchers and hit 'em out, first homers since MAY 12!? Enough said.

2) Having said that, Jeff Liefer is nowhere near being a major league hitter. Maybe it's because he's not getting enough playing time, but he just looks awful in his chances this year, culminating in his multi-K game today - and today he wasn't even CLOSE on his K's. He did have one warning-track drive, but man, I just don't see him ever being a hitter, and at one point I had high hopes for him. (Then again, Mike Kameron can be an All-Star, so who knows.)

3) How long must we wait until Foulke is ready to start? For the love of God, stuff Ritchie in a casket and let Foulke take his spot as soon as his arm is ready.

4) Osuna was keeping the ball down today, a sign that he really can be a good closer. He almost got burned against the Mets with high fastballs to Piazza and Burnitz, but the coaches must have told him to get them down. I like what I see.

5) Any ideas as to why Garland and Buerhle got shelled in this series? Is it just the wackiness of the cross-town classic?

peace out.

FanOf14
06-16-2002, 08:00 PM
I didn't "see" any of Garland's outting (was at work and had it on yahoo), but with Buehrle, it looked like he ran out of gas in the fifth and shouldn't have been allowed to go into the sixth. I really couldn't understand why JM left him in as long as he did. Maybe it was too much for him getting his first major league hit, who knows, but it looked like he just hit a wall and JM left him out there too long.

doublem23
06-16-2002, 08:02 PM
Good Lord, I hope the Sox aren't dumb enough to start Foulke...

Let him get his confidence back and let's see if he can remember how to save games.

oldcomiskey
06-16-2002, 08:05 PM
Foulke? are you kidding-----tell me youre kidding

WinningUgly!
06-16-2002, 08:07 PM
1) Please don't anybody jump on the Carlos Lee bandwagon or pat him on the back (I haven't really seen anyone do so yet, so that's good). He got two fat ones against struggling pitchers and hit 'em out, first homers since MAY 12!? Enough said. I am hoping like hell that this game will jump-start Lee for the rest of the season, but we all know that it's probably not gonna happen. Might be a good time to deal Carlos. :D:

2) Having said that, Jeff Liefer is nowhere near being a major league hitter. Maybe it's because he's not getting enough playing time, but he just looks awful in his chances this year, culminating in his multi-K game today - and today he wasn't even CLOSE on his K's. He did have one warning-track drive, but man, I just don't see him ever being a hitter, and at one point I had high hopes for him. (Then again, Mike Kameron can be an All-Star, so who knows.) Liefer used to have big problems hitting against lefties...now he just has problems. I think he would benefit quit a bit by playing everyday, but I don't think he's ever going to reach that 30+ HR potential we used to hear so much about.
3) How long must we wait until Foulke is ready to start? For the love of God, stuff Ritchie in a casket and let Foulke take his spot as soon as his arm is ready. Foulke won't be starting until next season.
4) Osuna was keeping the ball down today, a sign that he really can be a good closer. He almost got burned against the Mets with high fastballs to Piazza and Burnitz, but the coaches must have told him to get them down. I like what I see. Can't argue with the results...he's looked pretty solid.

5) Any ideas as to why Garland and Buerhle got shelled in this series? Is it just the wackiness of the cross-town classic? :?:

pudge
06-16-2002, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
Good Lord, I hope the Sox aren't dumb enough to start Foulke...

Let him get his confidence back and let's see if he can remember how to save games.

I think even if Foulke gets back on track, he's wasted in the closer role - his best season was working 2-3 innings in tight games as a bridge - how great was it to have him pitch two solid innings and then let Marte and Osuna finish it? We need that, and nobody else can do it (maybe Glover has the potential, but he's a starter now). If Howry had the ability to do it, I would say okay, put Foulke back as closer. But not now.

Daver
06-16-2002, 08:22 PM
Originally posted by pudge


I think even if Foulke gets back on track, he's wasted in the closer role - his best season was working 2-3 innings in tight games as a bridge - how great was it to have him pitch two solid innings and then let Marte and Osuna finish it? We need that, and nobody else can do it (maybe Glover has the potential, but he's a starter now). If Howry had the ability to do it, I would say okay, put Foulke back as closer. But not now.

Howry would have the ability if he could master a second pitch,the problem is he has Nardi as an instructor.What I would like to see is Kirk brought in to teach him a big league change up to go with his heater,Kirk perfected Foulke's change up and for awhile it was unhittable.Couple a good change with a 92 MPH fastball and you have the makings of a good closer.

kevingrt
06-16-2002, 08:34 PM
1) Please don't anybody jump on the Carlos Lee bandwagon or pat him on the back (I haven't really seen anyone do so yet, so that's good). He got two fat ones against struggling pitchers and hit 'em out, first homers since MAY 12!? Enough said.

Okay you don't have to jump on his bandwagon, but you do have to pat him on the back. He won the game for us!

doublem23
06-16-2002, 08:38 PM
Originally posted by kevingrt


Okay you don't have to jump on his bandwagon, but you do have to pat him on the back. He won the game for us!

http://cubs.mlb.com/chc/photo/ph_play_mugshot_134268.jpg
I did my part.

raul12
06-16-2002, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by pudge

1) Please don't anybody jump on the Carlos Lee bandwagon or pat him on the back (I haven't really seen anyone do so yet, so that's good). He got two fat ones against struggling pitchers and hit 'em out, first homers since MAY 12!? Enough said.

3) How long must we wait until Foulke is ready to start? For the love of God, stuff Ritchie in a casket and let Foulke take his spot as soon as his arm is ready.

5) Any ideas as to why Garland and Buerhle got shelled in this series? Is it just the wackiness of the cross-town classic?



i know it may seem like i always pick on you pudge, but i don't really mean to...it's just that you say some strange things sometimes.

why are you telling us not to jump on the Clee bandwagon (rightfully so) and then immediately say that "how long must we wait until foulke starts" when this is one of the first times in nearly 3 years that he has pitched over ONE inning effectively against the scrubs of all teams...sheesh...at least be consistent with your reasoning.

i did not see the first game of the series, but was fortunate enough that they had the game on fox so that i could actually watch a game for once. anyways, buerhle ran out of gas in the 5th inning. his stuff was all high and away, falling behind hitters, 2-0, 3-1, yet JM in his infinite wisdom saw fit to bring him back out after the 5th. even when he had thrown over 55 pitches in two innings and total pitch count over 110, he left him out there with the bases sacked to face someone who in the past has hit effectively against him (albeit only 3 ab's). to leave him out there was a bad decision on jm's part. whether running around the bases effected beurhle or not, i have no idea, but he was cruising except for a few walks through 4 innings.

the middle game was a case of bad luck for the most part. biddle made a great pitch on shammy, and he shatters his bat, and plunks down a duck snort double down the right field line....i think that really demorilized the team, but that's just imho.

pudge
06-16-2002, 09:42 PM
Originally posted by raul12


i know it may seem like i always pick on you pudge, but i don't really mean to...it's just that you say some strange things sometimes.

why are you telling us not to jump on the Clee bandwagon (rightfully so) and then immediately say that "how long must we wait until foulke starts" when this is one of the first times in nearly 3 years that he has pitched over ONE inning effectively against the scrubs of all teams...sheesh...at least be consistent with your reasoning.



Good point raul - I've been on the Foulke as a starter kick long before this game, I just think it'd be a better fit, and now with others filling in the bullpen roles, and guys like Ritchie and Glover sucking as starters, I wish it could happen soon, but I know it won't. Heck, I'll take Foulke as a decent middle reliever for now.

Thanks for the insight into the Buehrle game, I missed that one and was really bummed to hear the final tally.

duke of dorwood
06-16-2002, 10:27 PM
They have screwed with Liefer. He's better than this. Another casualty of this staff.

Kilroy
06-16-2002, 11:38 PM
Originally posted by pudge
5) Any ideas as to why Garland and Buerhle got shelled in this series? Is it just the wackiness of the cross-town classic?
peace out.

Garland couldn't get anything over but his fast ball. Once that cat gets out of the bag, it doens't take long.

Buehrle? Just one of those days I guess.

But I do have to point out that all the Cubs worst hitters were battering us this weekend. Hundley began the series hitting .193, came out hitting above .230. Alou raised his barely over .200 average, McWhiff, Stynes, Ojeda, Mueller... All these noodle bats beat the crap out of Sox pitcing...

neal
06-16-2002, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by pudge
5) Any ideas as to why Garland and Buerhle got shelled in this series? Is it just the wackiness of the cross-town classic?
peace out.

Garland didn't have his sinker working, and he couldn't keep the ball down. Wrigley is a park where you really need to keep the ball down, and he wasn't doing that. Every pitch was up, up, up.

As for Buerhle, that one inning he just fell apart. Looked like he ran out of gas. And then add to that three very stupid defensive plays:

Lee throws the ball home when there is clearly no play, thus turning the double into a triple.

Valentin tries to get Alou at third instead of the sure out at first. He should have fake threw to first and then attempted to get him IF he was going to do it at all.

Konerko's error (granted it was a tough bounce, but it was playable)

CerberusWG
06-17-2002, 12:01 AM
Originally posted by Kilroy


Garland couldn't get anything over but his fast ball. Once that cat gets out of the bag, it doens't take long.

Buehrle? Just one of those days I guess.

But I do have to point out that all the Cubs worst hitters were battering us this weekend. Hundley began the series hitting .193, came out hitting above .230. Alou raised his barely over .200 average, McWhiff, Stynes, Ojeda, Mueller... All these noodle bats beat the crap out of Sox pitcing...

Actually, it seemed to me Garland just had some sinkers up too high. His Curve and Slider were biting pretty hard.

Kilroy
06-17-2002, 12:08 AM
Originally posted by CerberusWG


Actually, it seemed to me Garland just had some sinkers up too high. His Curve and Slider were biting pretty hard.

As I recall tho, he wasn't getting strikes with those pitches.

ChiSoxBobette
06-17-2002, 07:49 AM
Buehrle should never have went out there for the 5th , the inning before he had just managed to get out of a jam and he was lucky doing that. Everyone except manuel could see he was tired , so I blame that on jerry, Buehrle should have never went out there especially after we took the lead 3-2.
Go White Sox
Time For jerry manuel & his buddies TO GO!!! :angry: :angry:

cornball
06-17-2002, 07:59 AM
Foulke needs another pitch before he could be a starter, maybe next year..

Hopefully Carlos stays hot so we can get rid of him...

And a new pitching coach is a must.....