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stevied23
04-18-2010, 04:29 PM
If the losses keep racking up, how long do you think it will be before Kenny makes a change?? If he does, who would you like to see replace him?

thomas35forever
04-18-2010, 04:33 PM
If the losses keep racking up, how long do you think it will be before Kenny makes a change?? If he does, who would you like to see replace him?
Around 2025. After that, he will hire the head of Tony La Russa on a silver plate to take over.

Dibbs
04-18-2010, 04:34 PM
I can guarantee he won't be proactive about it. If a change is made, it will be much too late That is for sure.

stevied23
04-18-2010, 04:35 PM
In the past, I'd be the first to defend him. The team has been awful offensively but some of his decisions make me wonder what the **** he's thinking somedays.

Crede24Thome25
04-18-2010, 04:36 PM
If the losses keep racking up, how long do you think it will be before Kenny makes a change?? If he does, who would you like to see replace him?
I'd take cora and keep coop the rest can hit the curb.

Frater Perdurabo
04-18-2010, 04:36 PM
Not sure about how much patience KW has. Also not sure if JR would let KW fire Ozzie and the coaches.

I think if he did fire Ozzie, Joey Cora would be given the interim tag.

I would prefer to see Jeff Torborg brought in, either as manager or bench coach (if Cora is elevated).

I'd also inquire about Clint Hurdle, currently the Rangers' hitting coach and who managed the 2007 Rockies.

EDIT: Before all of that, I'd try to get Tom Kelly.

Frater Perdurabo
04-18-2010, 04:37 PM
I'd take cora and keep coop the rest can hit the curb.

I'd keep Baines, too. I also have no problem with whoever their bullpen coach is.

Ozzie and Walker are the biggest problems.

tick53
04-18-2010, 04:39 PM
:angry: I was going to write a nasty post but the hell with it!

Crede24Thome25
04-18-2010, 04:54 PM
:angry: I was going to write a nasty post but the hell with it!
No please do this is the time to vent

Lip Man 1
04-18-2010, 05:14 PM
Neither Ozzie nor Kenny will even be considered for firing by ownership. They may "resign" but they won't be fired and it certainly won't even be considered until U.S. Cellular Field is half empty.

Lip

GoGoCrede
04-18-2010, 05:15 PM
Neither Ozzie nor Kenny will even be considered for firing by ownership. They may "resign" but they won't be fired and it certainly won't even be considered until U.S. Cellular Field is half empty.

Lip

Which may happen sooner than we think, at this rate.

guillen4life13
04-18-2010, 05:19 PM
I like Ozzie but I'm also getting a little exasperated with the past 3.5 years. 2008, I think he did a great job. ditto 2005. The rest of it... eh. This isn't really a reaction to today's game because Gavin just had a rough start and Carmona was dealing.

I like (and still like) the DH by committee. But I never would have believed I'd see Mark Kotsay hitting third. I thought Ozzie was BSing. The overall management of the lineup has been absolutely sub-par. The hitting has been subpar for years now.

I was under the impression that the 2010 roster was supposed to be more consistent and not be an all or nothing team.

The team should be around .500 right now with the Pythagorean record. They're averaging about 4.3 RPG. That's dismal.

The pitching has been good. Don Cooper does his job.

I'm getting tired of Ozzie running his mouth and his teams not producing. I'm sick of him misusing his players.

A team with this kind of payroll should have more to show for it.

Zelemont
04-18-2010, 05:22 PM
There is no way I am making a trip to US cellular anytime soon. I am fed up with this team. My time is too valuable to spend any more of it being needlessly disappointed.

I may just root for the rockies the rest of the season, because sadly that will be much more satisfying.

I was truly excited for this season too. I know a lot of you don't like the lineup, but to me the offense looks potentially potent. Time to get somebody in the clubhouse who knows how to bring out the best in the team.

Tragg
04-18-2010, 05:27 PM
This organization is going on 3 losing seasons out of the last 4.

MARTINMVP
04-18-2010, 05:28 PM
There is no way I am making a trip to US cellular anytime soon. I am fed up with this team. My time is too valuable to spend any more of it being needlessly disappointed.

In a sign from above that is clearly my cue NOT to make any trips to Vegas anytime soon, I got an invite just before that 2nd inning to go to the Cell next Sunday... and of course, I accepted. Then all hell broke lose.

WhiteSoxRich
04-18-2010, 05:31 PM
What I don't get is looking at the personnel we have, that they can't generate any offense.

canOcorn
04-18-2010, 05:38 PM
Neither Ozzie nor Kenny will even be considered for firing by ownership. They may "resign" but they won't be fired and it certainly won't even be considered until U.S. Cellular Field is half empty.

Lip

Are you you saying my August tickets might be worth a goldmine when this worthless jackass is fired? Just asking because August and September will be a ghost town if Ozzie is still managing this team.

Paulwny
04-18-2010, 05:46 PM
What I don't get is looking at the personnel we have, that they can't generate any offense.


Everyone sees things differently, I don't see any offense with these players.

SI1020
04-18-2010, 05:47 PM
Everyone sees things differently, I don't see any offense with these players. Nor do I. In fact, I may have overestimated their potential.

gosox41
04-18-2010, 06:04 PM
If the losses keep racking up, how long do you think it will be before Kenny makes a change?? If he does, who would you like to see replace him?


Yes, I think he will make a change if the losses keep racking up. This is Ozzie's team so he has to make it work.

Of course now it's way too early and look at the Sox line up. 13 games in the season and who is hitting above their career avaerage? Jones.

But look at how many guys are awful right now.

If these guys can hit like they're capable then they will win more.


Bob

Lip Man 1
04-18-2010, 06:49 PM
GoSox:

Kenny, as he has said he does with any major decision, would have to get JR's approval. At this point in time even if this season is a disaster I can't see that happening.

And remember Ozzie is still under contract for at least another year maybe more. JR does not like to pay individuals to not work.

Lip

Lip Man 1
04-18-2010, 06:51 PM
Guillen:

Some would argue the Sox payroll is large enough but has been mishandled.

Lip

russ99
04-18-2010, 06:52 PM
GoSox:

Kenny, as he has said he does with any major decision, would have to get JR's approval. At this point in time even if this season is a disaster I can't see that happening.

And remember Ozzie is still under contract for at least another year maybe more. JR does not like to pay individuals to not work.

Lip

Lip, I wonder if Ozzie's quotes per Walker this weekend were the stereotypical "final vote of confidence" underperforming coaches usually get shortly before they're fired?

The strange part to me is that Ozzie said it, after questioning Walk openly last season in similar offensive dire straits. Had Kenny given the vote of confidence, I'd be more willing to believe his job was still safe.

Brian26
04-18-2010, 07:38 PM
I would prefer to see Jeff Torborg brought in, either as manager or bench coach (if Cora is elevated).

Torborg was the best Sox manager of my lifetime. Would love to see him back here if he's up for it.

Brian26
04-18-2010, 07:40 PM
And remember Ozzie is still under contract for at least another year maybe more. JR does not like to pay individuals to not work.

Especially considering that he'll be paying two basketball coaches not to work once the Cavs take care of business in the first round.

Sox
04-18-2010, 07:53 PM
There is no way I am making a trip to US cellular anytime soon. I am fed up with this team. My time is too valuable to spend any more of it being needlessly disappointed.

I may just root for the rockies the rest of the season, because sadly that will be much more satisfying.

I was truly excited for this season too. I know a lot of you don't like the lineup, but to me the offense looks potentially potent. Time to get somebody in the clubhouse who knows how to bring out the best in the team.

You meant potentially "impotent" right?:wink:

Viva Medias B's
04-18-2010, 08:10 PM
Torborg was the best Sox manager of my lifetime. Would love to see him back here if he's up for it.

I like Jeff, but I am not sure I'd want him to be the one that replaces Ozzie if it comes to that. Remember, Torborg got fired by the Marlins not long into the 2003 season for overusing his pitchers or something like that.

Lip Man 1
04-18-2010, 09:02 PM
Viva:

That is completely false and I got it from a source who was there at the time. The Marlins owner wanted Brad Ansberg, Florida's pitching coach fired.

Torborg said he wouldn't do it and listed a number of reasons why Arnsberg shouldn't have been made the "fall guy" for a poor performance.

Torborg told Loria that if he felt that strongly about it that it probably would be best to fire him (i.e. Torborg) because he was not going to let Arnberg take the fall...so Loria did.

Lip

Frater Perdurabo
04-18-2010, 09:11 PM
Guillen:

Some would argue the Sox payroll is large enough but has been mishandled.

Lip

Lip, there are two issues.

The first applies to KW and the ultimate question is: Is KW wisely using his payroll dollars?

The second applies to Ozzie and his coaches: Are Ozzie and his coaches developing and maximizing the talent on the roster?

Right now I want to address the second issue.

To me, the pitching coaches (Cooper and Nieves) are getting pretty good results from their players.

OK, now let's put aside the second-rate players and veterans on the down sides of their careeres. Let's look at the two young hitters who have tremendous talent, but still need coaching and teaching to maximize their potential: Beckham and Quentin. These are the two players on whom Ozzie and Walker can have the most influence, positive or negative. Quentin didn't spend any time in the Sox minor league system, and Beckham spend less than one season in the minors.

So here's the question: Are Ozzie and Walker teaching and coaching Beckham and Quentin up to their potential, like Ron Gardenhire and the Twins' hitting coach have taught/coached Mauer, Morneau, Cuddyer, Span and Kubel up to their potential?

I think the answer is a resounding "no."

Therefore, Ozzie and Walker are nowhere near as good as the best manager/hitting coach duo in the AL Central.

Consequently, the Sox need to find a better manager and a better hitting coach, especially if they have any hope of competing with the Twins, who have better hitters and better coaches.

BainesHOF
04-19-2010, 12:15 AM
A big negative in Ozzie's column is also the lack of defensive improvement that Ramirez has made. In fact, you could argue that he's gotten worse. Ozzie was a great defensive shortstop. If Ozzie can't help Ramirez improve at shortstop, then who can Ozzie help?

The sad thing is I suspect that Ozzie hasn't even physically worked with Ramirez. It was an absolute embarrassment last year when Ramirez couldn't even position himself correctly. That went on for weeks, if not months. How could such a thing happen at the major league level?

Nellie_Fox
04-19-2010, 12:57 AM
There is no way I am making a trip to US cellular anytime soon. I am fed up with this team. My time is too valuable to spend any more of it being needlessly disappointed.

I may just root for the rockies the rest of the season, because sadly that will be much more satisfying.You took the trouble to register to post on a White Sox board to tell us this?

mcfish
04-19-2010, 09:38 AM
If Ozzie were to be replaced, I think KW would make a run at Mike Hargrove, seeing as how he has a personal mission to acquire as many 1995 Cleveland Indians as possible.

Viva Medias B's
04-19-2010, 01:43 PM
If Ozzie were to be replaced, I think KW would make a run at Mike Hargrove, seeing as how he has a personal mission to acquire as many 1995 Cleveland Indians as possible.

'95 Indians associated with the Sox include or included post-1995 (in no particular order):

Omar Vizquel
Sandy Alomar, Jr.
Albert Belle
Kenny Lofton
Jim Thome
Herbert Perry
Tony Pena, Sr.
Ken Hill
Alan Embree
Also, Paul Assenmacher was with the Sox before joining the Indians in 1995.

So now the question is when does Carlos Baerga, now retired, join the White Sox in some capacity.

mcfish
04-19-2010, 03:50 PM
'95 Indians associated with the Sox include or included post-1995 (in no particular order):

Omar Vizquel
Sandy Alomar, Jr.
Albert Belle
Kenny Lofton
Jim Thome
Herbert Perry
Tony Pena, Sr.
Ken Hill
Alan Embree

Also, Paul Assenmacher was with the Sox before joining the Indians in 1995.

So now the question is when does Carlos Baerga, now retired, join the White Sox in some capacity.Are you saying I shouldn't have used teal?

russ99
04-19-2010, 04:55 PM
Lip, there are two issues.

The first applies to KW and the ultimate question is: Is KW wisely using his payroll dollars?

The second applies to Ozzie and his coaches: Are Ozzie and his coaches developing and maximizing the talent on the roster?

Right now I want to address the second issue.

To me, the pitching coaches (Cooper and Nieves) are getting pretty good results from their players.

OK, now let's put aside the second-rate players and veterans on the down sides of their careeres. Let's look at the two young hitters who have tremendous talent, but still need coaching and teaching to maximize their potential: Beckham and Quentin. These are the two players on whom Ozzie and Walker can have the most influence, positive or negative. Quentin didn't spend any time in the Sox minor league system, and Beckham spend less than one season in the minors.

So here's the question: Are Ozzie and Walker teaching and coaching Beckham and Quentin up to their potential, like Ron Gardenhire and the Twins' hitting coach have taught/coached Mauer, Morneau, Cuddyer, Span and Kubel up to their potential?

I think the answer is a resounding "no."

Therefore, Ozzie and Walker are nowhere near as good as the best manager/hitting coach duo in the AL Central.

Consequently, the Sox need to find a better manager and a better hitting coach, especially if they have any hope of competing with the Twins, who have better hitters and better coaches.

Dude, you're putting way too much stock in teaching and developing. Truth be told, there's very little of that done at the big league level.

Guys like Quentin and Beckham know how to hit, but are not executing. That's all about preparation, mentality and approach - which is the direct responsibility of our hitting coach.
Major league coaches, including hitting and pitching coaches, work on positioning the talent a player has so they can give their best performance, not developing it.

For your example of the Twins, every one of the guys mentioned was "taught and developed" in the Twins regimented minor league system where you need to execute certain fundamentals to be promoted to each level. Ron Gardenhire did little to develop Mauer, other than getting him in the lineup every day and keeping him on track.

Mohoney
04-19-2010, 08:35 PM
Guys like Quentin and Beckham know how to hit, but are not executing.

Maybe Quentin is never going to be that .300+/.400+/.500+, top 10 in every statistical category, MVP candidate #3 hitter that we need. Maybe Quentin is more of a .250 with power cleanup hitter.

So far, it looks like we have a cleanup hitter hitting #3, a #5 or #6 hitter hitting cleanup, and #7-#8-#9 hitters hitting everywhere else in the lineup.